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Full Version: Bacterial Vaginosis--or--embarrassing bad smell
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chachaheels
I agree with you MP, but there's no reason to stop eating lactofermented foods like sour cream and yogurt. These do far more in the body to sustain health than just keep yeast microorganisms at bay, so they do provide necessaries you can't get from anything else. A big part of what they do is help us process and absorb nutrients from all our foods.

And yes, yeast does exist in the body naturally, but it can overgrow. From my experience, eating bread isn't going to have any kind of effect on this one way or the other except that most breads are so highly processed and so nutrient deficient (yup, even the "whole wheat" kind which really is nothing of the sort) that if you eat enough of them you'll basically deprive your body of really essential nutrient stores, and that brings about problems too numerous to list here.

As I said earlier, BV is way more than just the lack of/proliferation of particular microbes. Something has to create the conditions for those microbes to be present; a big part of the solution is finding out what creates that condition of susceptibility. The microbes are never the cause of that, they are just a sign that susceptibility exists.

I definitely second the folic acid, though, and all B vitamins in general--trouble is, the only kind worth spending any money on comes in an injectible form (along with methylcobalamin B12). It's not as good, but you can find a sublingual dose form of the B12/folic acid that you must take every day. Fortunately, an even better way to get folic acid is through your food. Some examples of foods containing folic acid include brussels sprouts, broccoli, black eyed peas and other beans, papaya, eggs, and fat rich fishes like salmon.
autumnbreeze
Making Progress: I won't speak for everyone else, only for myself. I definitely know the difference between BV and a Yeast Infection. The yeast infection comes after taking the antibiotics the docs give you for BV and it is usually cleared up very easily.
There is a separate thread on yeast infections from hell smile.gif

I see that you're new here. Going back a few pages, everyone just recently shared their BV "history" since there are many new people and I guess we wanted to pinpoint any similarities. If you don't mind, please share what you think initially caused your BV (birth control, new partner, antibiotics, etc.), what you've taken for BV, do you currently have symptoms (if so, what are they) and if you no longer have BV, PLEASE tell us how you got rid of it.
latinrican
Autumbreeze.... thank you soooooooooo much for finding that doctor. I, too , live in Atlanta so I'll definitely be checking him out.
neverending
latinrican,Autumbreeze and anybody else that lives close to the Atlanta, Ga area:
We should all get together at a coffee shop or something and discuss all the remedies we have tried. It would be support/ therapy for us!
latinrican
I am totally for that... I live in the east side of the town... in Lithonia.
neverending
I'm not familiar with Lithonia. My husband and I are looking to move to Duluth, Ga within the next 6mos. I love Atlanta! Many, many, many opportunities! If I did'nt have cooch problems I would be at every concert, every mall, park, and even that new aquarium, but the cooch keeps me from doing the things that I love. I wish I could walk past someone with confidence.Maybe one day! LOL

Ladies:
If anyone lives in the Atlanta, ga area and are interested in getting together to discuss our problems and support each other through these hard times please let me or latinrican know. smile.gif
Please do not give out personal information(phone numbers) on this forum because we all know their are fruit cakes out there.Just e-mail us!
autumnbreeze
QUOTE(neverending @ Nov 1 2006, 12:52 PM) *

Ladies:
If anyone lives in the Atlanta, ga area and are interested in getting together to discuss our problems and support each other through these hard times please let me or latinrican know. smile.gif
Please do not give out personal information(phone numbers) on this forum because we all know their are fruit cakes out there.Just e-mail us!


I don't have a problem with that.
i_hate_sports
New Poll Question:

In what was does having BV effect (affect?) your life? Do you not do certain normal everyday activities because of BV? How has it effected your relationship with your SO? How has it effected your sex life? Do other people know about it? Do strangers notice it?

My answers: It hasn't effected my regular life in a huge way because my main problem is discharge, not smell. I still do all my normal activities I just have to change my underwear like 3 times a day. My husband has to hear me complaining and being upset about it but he is still supportive. Right now intercourse is on hold indefinitely until I figure out if the last treatment of Cleocin worked or not. I do feel kind of gross about it when we are having sex but he wouldn't have known if I hadn't told him and he isn't bothered by it. I have told a handful of people about it for support or information. Strangers do not notice anything.

Sara
sassy
I finally went to the doctor for my rash on my legs that I thought could be related to boric acid use but he told me my hair folicles were infected. AND guess what he prescribed me??? Cleocin cream to rub on my legs! I've used it in my vagina for BV...geez.
jewelscando
Ok Ladies!!! I went back to my doctor today, AND GUESS WHAT?? They said the rash IS NOT FROM THE BORIC ACID. Both the doctors in the office are extremely interested in the Boric and asked me all kinds of questions about it. My doctor did a bunch of research on it these last two weeks and is excited about what it can do. She said, "I've heard of Boric Acid to kill roaches, but not for the VAGINA"!! biggrin.gif

She also gave me some natural things to use like Vaginal Lactobacillus Acidophilus, which I told her we've already tried.

She did not want to do the Estrogen test, because she said I'm to young. She said most women will go through menopause around the same time that their mothers did. She also said that the test they do for Estrogen level is difficult to determine, when you have periods, and even harder when you don't. She didn't think it was an issue.

They are still confused about the rash. The blood work came back that I have a high level of whatever it is that is in your system causing alergies. (Sorry ladies, can't remember the word). They have also sent me for more lab work to test me for West Nile Virus. They gave me a steriod cream for my arm that I'm to use for 5 days only. IT'S ALREADY WORKING.

I've been off Boric now for a month and a half. I'm ready to go back on it, however, my smell is gone. I read somewhere that sometimes if you leave it alone, it will heal on it's own. Obviously, mine heals, but always comes back. It's the coming back that I'm trying to get a handle on.


Svea
More success with Boric Acid:
I had a ceasarian section and there was a bit of membrane (the sack that surrounds the baby) left in. It eventually came out (not nice!) and the result was some strange new bacterial world in my privates.

I did 2 rounds of Flagystatin cream (flagyl plus nystatin (an anti-yeast)). Each round was 7 days.
Each round worked but the symptoms came back, although not as bad.

After this, I did a lot of reading and decided to try the Boric Acid treatment.
It seems to really work.
Just go to a pharmacist and get them to prepare the capsules for you.
You need 600 mg of Boric acid in each. This seemed to be the most commonly recommended
amount after reviewing various medical sites & studies.
I used 1 every night for 10 nights. I was trying for 14 nights but there is a slight irritation
factor that was too much for me. This irritation went away a day after stopping.

The only side effect was the irritation after a few days, and copious discharge.
Be prepared for that!
(I only did one per night, many sites including the American Academy of Family Physicians, recommend
one at night and one in the morning. For me this would be too irritating)

If you find that your symptoms come back, at the first sign just pop in a boric acid
capsule that same night.

Anyways, I hope this helps some one out there.
Cheers to all!
chachaheels
That's good to hear, Svea. It's also great to hear that doctors are quite often becoming more and more interested in using treatments their patients say work, and work well. Especially when those treatments are quite old, and often an old fashioned or even homeopathic treatment. It must mean that they're hearing good things from many of their patients.

I think everyone will have an individual response to the boric acid--like Svea, tried to do 14 days but felt an irritation, so she stopped--and that was all she needed. It does say in my materia medica reference that it can irritate, so if you come at all close to feeling that after a period of time when the boric acid seems to work, just stop using it (that's when you know you've had enough). As for the discharge, don't just expect it, think of it as a positive sign that something is being resolved in there. If there weren't any waste from the disinfecting nature of the boric acid, there wouldn't be anything to get rid of, so the discharge should tell you it's working.
sassy
Hey guys...I work at a hospital, doing PR, and this was on our intranet this morning:

Generic Metronidazole Approved
WEDNESDAY, Nov. 1 (HealthDay News) -- The first generic version of MetroGel-Vaginal (metronidazole vaginal gel) has been approved by the U.S. Food and Drug Administration to treat bacterial vaginosis, the agency said Wednesday.
The condition, caused by an overgrowth of vaginal bacteria, may be accompanied by symptoms including discharge, odor, pain, itching or burning, the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) says. It's the most common vaginal infection among women of childbearing age.
MetroGel-Vaginal is produced by 3M Co.; license to produce the generic equivalent was granted to Colorado-based QLT USA Inc.
Generic drugs, now used to fill more than 50 percent of all prescriptions, can cost a fraction of the price of their brand-name equivalents, the FDA said. "Consumers and health professionals can be assured that an approved generic drug is bioequivalent to the brand-name drug and is its equal in dosage, form, strength, and route of administration, quality, performance characteristics, and intended use," the agency said.


Just thought I would show it to you all. At least it will be cheaper now!
Making Progress
I have had BV on and off for almost four years. I first got BV after I took some antibiotics. I am now 37. I have tried all the medications. They failed miserably. In fact, my symptoms got worse after using them. My doctor refused to try anymore of them on me and encouraged me to try alternative medicines. I couldn’t find any alternative medicines for this because everyone seems to have this condition mixed up with yeast infections.

AutumnBreeze – Antibiotics kill off everything good and bad in your body. After they kill off the sickness, they leave you susceptible to anything that can take hold. Yeast is not the only thing, but do you see the connection? If you kill off the bacteria, the yeast takes over. If there is no yeast, you get BV.

Chachaheels – There is no harm in eliminating lacto-fermented foods for two to four weeks to see if your BV symptoms are reduced. Your body does not require it. Lacto fermented foods have only been around for about 2,000 years. I don’t eat it, and I don’t get sick that often. When I did take it for yeast infections years ago, I got sick more often. I don’t think it was because of the acidophilus, but I don’t agree that it helped prevent sickness that much. Acidophilus can help though if you have a problem with Candida. When I was in my 20s I used to get yeast infections often, and the doctor was very clear about not eating bread, vinegar or yeast. Why can’t the opposite be true when you lack the normal amount of yeast in your pap? If you don’t like wheat, then go for an alternative grain bread. I don’t mean that you should eat processed bread. The bread I eat contains little more than wheat, yeast, eggs, and water.

Here are four key points that have been consistent for me over the past four years:

1. When I eat lacto-fermented foods or take acidophilus capsules, my symptoms get dramatically worse within 24 hours.
2. When I make sure I eat two slices of bread a day, my symptoms get better.
3. When I remember to take folic acid, my symptoms get better.
4. When I avoid acidophilus, eat bread, and take folic acid everyday, I have no symptoms at all! That’s about all the proof I need. I encourage everyone to try it.

klee
That's interesting about the lacto-fermented foods and acidophilus. Mainly because I always noticed that my bv would get worse, never better if I started a regimen of acidophilus. I stopped doing this about 6 months ago. If I think back on things, I started eating yogurt religiously about 3 years ago and this is about how long I've been dealing with bv. I also read somewhere that folic acid is supposed to assist in clearing up bv but haven't tried it.

The thing is that everything I read regarding vaginal health indicates that yogurt is beneficial. I mean, how can EVERYONE be wrong???
pympmama1
Has anyone tried the hydrogen peroxide and boric acid... in rotation of each other..... example ... every night the HP and then once a week the boric acid.... The boric acid does work ... but only until that time of the month.... and then the smell returns I was think of mixing the two regimes and seeing if it works..... any feed back would be helpful
Eralc Alegna
I just started trying probiotics orally each morning and vaginally every night with some peroxide during the day. I'm hoping this will work since the peroxide isn't supposed to affect the good bacteria biut kill off the bad. I don't know how it would work with boric, you'll just have to wait and see. I quit taking it since I was using it for about a month.

Klee - when you do the peroxide washes, how much peroxide are you using? Before I was just letting 10ml run out using a syringe 3x. All the articles say to use 30 ml so i tried doing the shower/prop myself up/hold it in thing for 3 minutes, but it was way too much. I couldn't take all that in and a lot went to waste. now i'm doing between 10 and 20 ml...
autumnbreeze
"AutumnBreeze – Antibiotics kill off everything good and bad in your body. After they kill off the sickness, they leave you susceptible to anything that can take hold. Yeast is not the only thing, but do you see the connection? If you kill off the bacteria, the yeast takes over. If there is no yeast, you get BV"

Making Progress: Thanks for your feedback. I do understand the distinct differences between a yeast infection and BV...trust me. I also understand antibiotics and how it's all connected. However, I do not believe that an absence of yeast (after antibiotics) causes BV. If we knew exactly what causes BV (aka, the PH imbalance), we wouldn't be here in this forum! I wish I could definitively blame it all on antibiotics but that would oversimplify this complex condition and insult the intelligence of many. I think different people respond to different treatments/regimens in various ways. For instance, some women are given metrogel for BV one time and is rid of it forever. Others are not so lucky. I recently began using probiotics (to include acidophilus) and that has helped my symptoms significantly. But I will keep the folic acid and wheat bread in mind for future reference.
chachaheels
For what it's worth, and stated purely as a means of public service:

When someone suggests finding alternative medicines to treat a chronic condition which conventional medicine cannot treat, they don't mean "go to the drugstore and see what's labelled "alternative" on the shelves. They mean seek out an experienced, well trained practitioner who uses an alternative medical system which CAN treat your illness. Or, at least, they should mean that.

There is no such thing as just an alternative medicine to treat a particular ailment. There is no such thing as an alternative medicine to treat a chronic disease. No medical substance works that way--you need to undergo a process of treatment and case management, not just a dose or two of some mineral or vegetable substance from a drugstore shelf.

I treat patients with yeast infections, BV, endometriosis, fibroids, hormonal imbalances which directly affect things like BV and yeast all the time with homeopathy. But I treat patients. Not BV, or endo, or fibroids, or hormonally influenced illnesses like yeast (and BV). Those ailments are just a bunch of symptoms, among many, which show me that the patient is expressing that sickness physically (and mentally, too). If I just used one of the medicines I have in my kit to just get rid of the symptoms of BV and nothing else, my patient would (guaranteed) become much sicker--and it might take me years to find out exactly how much sicker, too. If I treat the patient with the right medicines specifically chosen for her case (among which the BV will only be one aspect) then my patient's own body will have everything it needs to get rid of the BV for good, as well as address all the factors (physiological as well as mental/emotional and spiritual too) which made them susceptible to an illness like BV.

If you haven't worked with a practitioner to treat this (not someone who knows about a couple of items you can find in the health food store, but has no real training in any alternative medical system), you haven't tried alternative medicines. You've just gone to the store and picked out supplements or dietary aids like the acidophilus. It is impossible to get results this way.

Making Progress, lactofermented foods of all kinds do much more to support the body's immune system's response and overall health, which creates the conditions by which the body can heal itself. You don't take them as a kind of "natural" anti-biotic, you take them to make the body more effective at doing what it's supposed to do--curing this thing itself. So, yes, Making Progress, there's a ton of science and research (including long term, cross cultural, research--pretty rare in science, but certainly very valuable) to suggest that lactofermented foods are absolutely necessary to achieve and maintain optimum health.

Anti-candida diets, in a word, don't work. They can be helpful for some people in that they temporarily relieve some of the symptoms as long as they're followed religiously, with no deviation; but they don't provide enough nutritional variety to sustain anyone over the long term (and they are untenable, let's face it). If they only work as long as they're followed, they're not curing or treating anything, either; they're just suppressing the illness, and that is never good.

If you're opposed to taking the acidophilus, you can try things like kombucha or kvass--these work very quickly at boosting immune function significantly, and some people prefer them to using acidophilus because they can make them themselves and they taste good.

Perhaps, Making Progress, you get better not from cutting out lactofermented foods but from addressing a deep B vitamin deficiency--lots of people suffer from this and it rarely gets diagnosed. It was a good idea for you to point out the need for B vitamins. I would suggest, however, that since the vast majority of breads which claim to be "whole wheat" on the market are not whole wheat in any way (ever seen how those breads are actually made?), supplementation with injectible or sublingual drops or tablets with B12 and B6 might work better all around.
klee
I did the peroxide straight from the bottle for 3 days only. I guess a week is okay to do, based on what I've read, but perhaps not more than that. I don't think I needed as much as I did but seeing as how it's so cheap, I didn't worry about it too much. At any rate, everything is kosher in the cooch. Much more than when I'm doing boric actually. I've noticed just today, after not doing the peroxide thing for two days, I had a small bit of the clear sticky discharge like I used to have mid-month when my vagina was super healthy!!! This is so encouraging to me, despite the fact that I used to hate having that weird discharge.

There is absolutely no smell and you might notice a bit of chunkier discharge the day after the wash - it clears out and then there is very little...also like when things are healthy! Haven't eaten yogurt in about 4 days. I'll try to remember to post an update after my period.
sassy
klee--You just used plain, undiluted hydrogen peroxide?? Did you just sort of put your vagina at a tilted angle and pour some in it?
latinrican
Chachaheels,

Its funny that you mention Kombucha because my grandmother is a true Kombucha fanatic and I've witnessed the miracles that drink has done to my grandmother and so I ordered it just to see if my symptoms will get better and they didn't. I was drinking it at least 2 cups per day for a looooong time and didnt see any improvements so I stopped drinking it. I was just thinking this weekend about going back into drinking it everyday just to see since I still have it. Can I ask your opinion if 2 cups per day was enough? or if I may have been doing something wrong?
klee
Hey sassy - yes, hydrogen peroxide that we buy is already at 3%. That's the percentage being used in the studies I posted a week or so ago. And since I don't have a syringe, I grabbed a small funnel that I did have and hoised my hips up in the tub. I pour HP into the funnel and keep balanced. The nice thing about the funnel is that if you keep it in place, the HP will stay put for the entire 3 minutes.

Good luck!
neverending
I just received my estroil suppositories. smile.gif
WISH ME LUCK!
chachaheels
Latinrican, I doubt you did anything wrong! The kombucha may not have had any effects for any number of reasons. It's supposed to provide a general support, which should enable your body to do whatever it's got to do to cure itself (like any "boost" for the immune system) but sometimes (many times) there are other factors at work that have to be considered or changed (are there any hormonal drugs being used? Is there a problem with sex partners and re-infecting yourself through contact with them? Could there be other maintaining causes which keep you susceptible?). I don't think you should do more than 2 cups a day unless you want to. How much of the kombucha did your grandmother drink?

The kvass might be a better option for you than the kombucha (course, it doesn't taste as good but it is an option to use for a short amount of time). It's the same idea but maybe the kombucha mushroom is not as effective for you as a lacto-fermented kvass might be. Want to try it? I can post the recipe.
qjo
QUOTE(pympmama1 @ Nov 4 2006, 04:36 AM) *

Has anyone tried the hydrogen peroxide and boric acid... in rotation of each other..... example ... every night the HP and then once a week the boric acid.... The boric acid does work ... but only until that time of the month.... and then the smell returns I was think of mixing the two regimes and seeing if it works..... any feed back would be helpful



Still battling with BV. For the past few months I've found some reprieve with first acidophilus milk/water , hydrogen peroxide and water and betadine and water douches. The first course of treatment yielded the longest results. I used hydrogen peroxide/water in the morning and acidophilus milk/water or kefir milk/water at night for about two weeks. I had no malodor or symptoms for a month even after my period but then one day I noticed a light malodor. Suffice to say I was very angry.
I began the hydrogen peroxide and water regimen again but found that if I missed more than a day mild symptoms would begin to surface.

I stopped using the hydrogen peroxide and moved on to Tea Treel Oil suppositories which seem to do nothing for BV but are good for yeast.

Next I began using betadine and water douches but much like the other regimens it yielded temporary results. The results never lasted as long as the the one month symptom free results I achieved with the hydrogen peroxide and acidophilus regimen. If I stopped for a day the mild symptoms would return.

It's been three months yet I remain vigilant in my efforts to remedy this ailment without resorting to antibiotics. Currently I take Natren probiotic(orally) while now using the Yeast Arrest by Vitanic Boric acid (600mg) suppositories. They also contain Calendula and Oregon Grape Root. I take Garlique as well. I noticed results after the very first insert of the Yeast Arrest suppository. I inserted the first capsule on Friday November 3rd before bed and have used them once in the morning and once at night ever since. I am on day 5 now and still no symptoms. I bought a supply of 28 suppositories which will allow me to continue twice a day for 14 days. The malodor is gone; however i plan to purchase more, along with Candaclear (acidophilus suppository) that I saw at Whole Foods. Candaclear is a probiotic suppository that is recommended as a part of the BV protocol by rockwell nutrition. I will also try to find another good oral probiotic like Jarrow to take longterm.

There is a lot of maintenance, money and patience required in treating/curing bv whether naturally or with prescriptions. After being on and off antibiotics for the past 5 years I've decided that enough is enough. If after about two months of occassional protected sex and using the Yeast Arrest, Candaclear suppositories, Garlique daily and an oral probiotic I don't see improvements I will try the flagyl orally again.

This time, however, I'll take it while using the Yeast Arrest suppositories for about a week or more (to acidify the vagina and restore the pH) and then using the Candaclear for two weeks (to replenish the good bacteria) while taking a acidophilus orally. This should work. Recurrent BV needs considerate yet aggressive treatment and maintenance.

I do believe that maintenance -like no unprotected sex for 3 months or more, boric acid for a few days out of the month like maybe during my period and ongoing consumption of garlique tabs and acidophilus as a life long regimen- will be necessary even after desired results are achieved.

Good luck to you all and I will keep you posted.
Lebrat
Hi Ladies,

Glad I found you all. After reading, I am going to try the Yeast Arrest to help with my embarassing odor. One question though. Is it safe for my partner to perform oral sex while I'm using boric acid? The stuff is poison, right? So could he get sick from doing this? Thanks. unsure.gif
latinrican
chachaheels...

Thank you!!! My grandmother drunk the kombucha drink as if she was drinking water..lol. I did like the fact that I was so energized when I was drinking it so I am starting it up again. I am willing to try Kvass, so yes...please post the recipe.
beetlegrl
Hello everyone,

Well, here I was searching the internet AGAIN, for some natural BV remedies and stumbled upon this forum. WOW....while it might not be PC to say, but I feel so much better knowing I'm not the only one with this. I was really getting depressed over this.

I have tried the acidophillus pills, both orally and the suppositories. I have been drinking this stuff called BioK+ which is helping, but only for a day or two.

After reading all the inputs on here, I'm thinking of starting the HP douche and possibly the Boric Acid stuff.

I also noticed their is a natural Doc in here and I am searching for one in my area, the closest one to me is about an hour.

Before I get my appt with the Doc, I am curious to know the best way to use the Boric Acid, I have to admit, some of the after effects I've read on here have me somewhat suspicous of it.

I also read on here where someone starting getting this after taking seasonale, which is when I got it too, I'm wondering if there is a direct correllation between this? I've had other BC's and no problems....just a thought.
chachaheels
You can buy boric acid suppositories over the counter or through a compounding pharmacist who will make them up for you. The usual dose routine is a 14 day supply of 600g. boric acid suppositories, which you take one or two times a day. The Yeast Arrest someone posted about on here seems to be one brand name. Check the ingredients to be sure.

There is an ovule product that contains hydrastis and calendula--these are clear gold in colour, and they are made by boiron. It's an herbal product many women use successfully to relieve the symptoms of their yeast. I don't see why it wouldn't work for BV as calendula and hydrastis (golden seal) are both disinfecting agents. You would likely find the Boiron pruduct in your health food store or a pharmacy which sells high quality alternative medicine supplements.

Symptoms which look like yeast often result from hormonal imbalance, so if you are using the birth control pill or any kind of hormone product, (this includes asthma sufferers, too, who might use cortico-steroids) you will not be balanced hormonally, which will make you susceptible to yeast or BV (and many other things, but let's stick to these for now). You might want to make certain what you have is indeed yeast or BV before treating an ailment you don't really have--then you can figure out what's really going on and take it from there with more suitable treatments.
beetlegrl
thanks chacha....

I do know it's BV only because I have been to my reg Doc for it, which of course was given metronidizole to cure (which it did for a while) and also been to my gyno TWICE and he told me it would just go away on it's own. Well guess what, it HASN'T. So here I am.

I am really not into taking meds for anything, but decided to try seasonale due to my heavy periods. I don't need to be on any BC due to a tubal I had about 4 yrs ago. I really think it's the pill giving me this since I have NEVER EVER had problems before and have had the same boy for 4+ yrs, and I get my annual PAPs religously. Not to mention, you treat BV with antibiotics and woo hoo, now were are in yeast infection hell!

At this point I'm willing to try anything NATURAL....oh and I'm staving off the seasonale.....I am at the end of the pack last week, so I'm not takin no' mo.
chachaheels
Sorry about the double post, but I forgot to post the recipe for the Beet Kvass drink for latinrican and anyone who might like to give it a try.

You need:

3 medium sized or 2 large sized organic beets, peeled and chopped
filtered water (like from a Brita)
1 tablespoon sea salt
1/4 cup homemade whey (recipe below)

Don't grate your beets or you might end up with an alcoholic drink as opposed to just a fermented one...which really won't be as good as it might sound. Just chop them coursely so that their sugary juice is released in limited amounts, and it will ferment at a much slower rate.

Also, try to find the very best beets--organic, high nutrient, as fresh as possible. This will make a profound difference in the drink's effectiveness.

First: make your whey. For this, you need about a quart of really good quality, organic plain whole yogurt.
(do not use low fat versions, and if you can get a raw milk yogurt that's even better. You need the active culture from the yogurt which concentrates in the whey). Alternately, you can use about a quart of raw milk which you'll sour until it turns into curds and whey.

You need a colander and a clean kitchen towel (or cheesecloth, which works well too) and a glass or ceramic bowl to place underneath the colander. Line the colander with the towel, and then place the yogurt or soured milk inside the colander. Cover this with a plate or a towel, and leave it overnight. The whey will drip into the bowl.

The next day, tie up the ends of the towel, yogurt inside, with string, and suspend this by tying it to a spoon suspended over a deep container. Transfer the whey that you've already collected to a clean clear and refrigerate (this will keep several months in there). More whey will drip out of the suspended yogurt over the next day or so, which you can add to the jar. Once you've collected that, you'll find the yogurt has been drained of the whey and turned into a really rich, very healthy cream cheese, which you can also eat (or use to make a hell of a cheesecake).

I like to put all the yogurt as it drains in the fridge, as I'm not that crazy about the sour taste the cheese gets if you leave it out. The fridge temperature won't kill off any of the live culture and I prefer the way the cheese tastes; you might too.

Okay, you need a 1/4 cup of this to make your kvass.

So..

Place your chopped beets, whey, and salt in a 2 quart glass container (a pitcher is best). Addfiltered water to fill the container. Stir well and cover securely. Keep this at room temperature forthe next 2 days before transferring it to the refrigerator. Pour it through a strainer to serve. It should be a little bit bubbly, but it will taste like beets only a little bit medicinal (it's not delicious, but it's also far from bad).

Drink 4 ounces of this two times a day.

When most of the liquid has been drunk you can fill up the container with filtered water again and keep it at room temperature for another 2 days. The resulting brew will be less strong than the first, but still good.

After the second brew, you'll have to start again with fresh beets, water,and salt, but you can save 1/4 cup of the original liquid to use as your inoculant instead of whey.

If you do decide to do this, let me know how it goes.
neverending
beetlegrl: I just wanted to let you know that I too have never had problems with my body until I started taking birth control.This sucks!
beetlegrl
neverending: I didn't have BV problems with Ortho-tricyclen, but with the seasonale, I seem to live with with it. BC pills are the DEVIL. Why is there STILL not a pill for the GUY??

I tried the HP douche last night and laughed so hard while trying to hold it in Cirque du soleil style, I'm not sure it was in long enough. Will try again tonight-minus the laughs I hope. It didn't help that the hubby was cracking jokes the whole time....maybe throw him out during the escapade.

Also: they don't sell the boric acid suppositories anywhere near me, but I do have a whole foods about an hour from me, maybe I'll try them? Probably will end up having to make my own.
neverending
Update: This was my second night on the estroil suppositories and the discharge is gone for now.I hope I don't have to go back on birth control. The treatment takes about 3 weeks so I will keep everyone updated.

beetlegrl:I KNOW THIS IS OFF SUBJECT BUT I JUST HAD TO SAY I LOVE CIRQUE DU SOLEIL.
latinrican
Thanks, chacha for the recipe.... I will definitely try it. I'll let you know if I have any problems with making it.
chachaheels
Beetlegrl--try calling your local pharmacists to see if they do any custom compounding. If they do, chances are good they make up the boric acid suppositories to sell over the counter. I would also call around to any of the health food stores nearby and the Whole Foods to see if they stock them, that way you won't feel like you've had to drive an hour out of your way.

Making the capsules up one by one is a bummer, but it isn't so bad if it's your only choice. It cuts the costs down considerably, though you do have to do a bit of calculating to see exactly how much of the boric acid you're putting into each cap.

As for why isn't there a pill for the guy, well, the answer to that question is multi-layered, economic, and political. And it all comes down to the fact that though "medical science" behind pharmaceutical drug producers won't pay attention to or study the hormonal realities of women's bodies enough to never cause harm with their formulations yet still feel like they can experiment on us, they don't feel they can sell a birth control pill to men, who wouldn't be operating under a similar type of responsibility or desperation regarding fertility control. Society simply doesn't force men to bear the full responsibility of unwanted or unplanned pregnancy as it does women: hence, men would make a lousy market for the drug. Ugly but true. Especially since, ever since I was a small child, I've been hearing about how the male birth control pill is just a scant "10 years away". It's more than 30 years later, and they're still saying "10 more years!"

But there are other options which won't have such a long term impact on your glandular function and hormonal balance and health.
beetlegrl
Thanks so much for the timely responses!!

As for the compounding pharmacy, we have one in the area and was told that a script is required by FL state law for anything made in their facility.....so once again.....have to go to the Doc for any help, which if I look enough I'm sure I'll learn that's a scam.......

As for the pill for me, it really isn't necessary since I've had a tubal ligation years ago because I decided if I ever wanted kids, I would adopt, the only reason I take it is because of my periods and how painful they are....but after this little extravaganza I think I'll take a painful period over BV issues anyday.

I'm pretty sure the HP douche I did last night is working, I have no discharge and no odor, so hopefully this is my answer since I'm going to have to go on a scavenger hunt for the capsules to make my own boric acid supp.

thanks again, and I will keep the updates coming....

Oh and neverending: the Cirque rocks!!
redfawn
i was just prescribed flagyl for a bacterial infection my gyno found last week. i didn't have any smell, but i was having a lot of cloudy discharge and itchiness. i've found that i've been itching a bit (i even had a few cracks in between my labia) at the very end of my periods for a few months. it didn't start until i'd been using a divacup. i hope this doesn't cause bv.

my problem is this. i've taken all my the last two flagyl (one day left out of seven!) and i have no itching, but i still have a lot of discharge dripping into the toilet when i pee. it doesn't smell, but it has white flecks in it. not big ones, tiny little white dots (like when you mix up crystal light to drink and some of the powder doesn't get mixed with the water). does this mean my bv isn't going away?
chachaheels
beetlegrll, if your periods are so heavy, has anyone ever ruled out Anemia, endometriosis, or thalassemia (hemochromatosis) in your case? It might be a good idea to have your blood tested just to rule out any problems with iron absorption--the endo could be diagnosed with a pelvic exam. All of these may be reasons for the excessive bleeding during your cycle (oh, and by the way, when you say excessive bleeding, do you mean heavy flows for 3 to 7 days, or a period that has a heavier than normal flow for more days than "normal"?

I'm really not liking the way the birth control pill is being marketed as the freedom from your menstrual cycle pill. Grrr.

Redfawn, I usually consider a discharge after any kind of remedy to be a good sign--at least something is happening which is creating wastes which have to be flushed out. Your infection may be clearing; but then again it may be getting worse before it gets better.

You have to wait and see what will happen after you've given the Rx time to take effect, and time for your body to react to its primary action.
beetlegrl
Hey chacha...

I have been told for yrs that I am anemic..in fact I used to always be the one turned away from blood donation drives because of it...I always felt useless for that. sad.gif I also have IBS (according to me doc) but I think it's from stress-which I guess could be contributing to all this other crap-I HATE MY JOB...but only 5 more weeks so maybe it will go away.

I had my recent gyno tell me that I could have a hysterectomy to get away from the heavy periods. Which are heavy for 4 days-generally soaking through a regular tampon...I can't wear super they are too big for me. The cramps are also pretty bad...but it's only four days of hell, so I suppose there are people who are worse than me....

My aunt had a hysterectomy from endometriosis, so maybe it's hereditary...but I'm only 29-not really ready for that drastic of a procedure. I like my parts wear they are when they work like their supposed to...I don't want to kick out the roomie for shrinking my pants in the wash ya know?
deprime
Oh my, I can't take this anymore. I've posted once in here before (under another name), but a series of unfortunate, utterly embarassing events has led me back.

I've had chronic BV for FOUR YEARS STRAIGHT now (ages 17-21). I don't know why it started, but my life has been hell ever since. I've been prescribed every type of medication known to man for this problem -- Flagyl, Clyndamicin cream, Relagard, etc. etc. I've also done Tea Tree Oil douches, boric acid suppositories (which just gave me a rash all over), lactic acid suppositories, Enzara, gone on a mostly organic diet, sticking all sorts of acidophilus suppositories in me, etc.

I remember that Jewels once said that people would think we were crazy if they knew the kinds of things we were sticking in ourselves! lol.

Anyway, I can't control this in any way, so lately I just wear a tampon all the time to sort of "plug me up" in order to get through the day with little smell. I smell HORRIBLE most days...not even like fish anymore: trash, feces, fish, or just nastiness in general. Why is this happening? I have no idea. I've been to gynos in FOUR STATES about this. I even went to see a woman recently in my home city at a large research hospital, and she could give me no explanation. Worst of all, much like going to the car mechanic, I had no BV clue cells the last time that I went.

I can't take this embarassing smell anymore. My boyfriends parents always have to sniffle around me because I stink so much, and one of my co-workers today got a whiff of me without a tampon in... his face cringed in disgust. I'm sick of trying everything, because nothing works! (The Tea Tree Oil worked for about a day, but then I guess I became immune to it.)

Help! My life is being RUINED by this.
Eralc Alegna
QUOTE(redfawn @ Nov 8 2006, 12:16 PM) *

i've found that i've been itching a bit (i even had a few cracks in between my labia) at the very end of my periods for a few months.

I get the same thing too. Theres one spot in particular on the lower left that always itches for some reason. I mentioned the itching and burning when I urinate (burning due to the cracks around my lower labia and anus) to the doc a while back and he said I had Lichen Sclerosis. You can google it to find out more. I was perscribed clobetasol which is a steriod cream that I use occasionaly when it gets bothersome.

I've been meaning to bring this up before.. ChaCha, is there a chance the clobetasol could be aggravating the BV because of the steriods? Is there something better I could use to treat the cracking and itching?

Deprime - i too am lost because i just went to the doc and was told nothing is wrong. supposedly no infections at all and yet all the symptoms rage on. I feel for you, but have you read much on here? we're all as lost and frustrated as you...
chachaheels
I should not say this, but: Oh. My. God.

First, Beetle: If anemia has been diagnosed, and it does fit with the heavy bleeding and cramping, please know that Anemia can be very effectively treated. You've not been diagnosed with endometriosis, so unless you have an exam to rule it out (which I recommend if you haven't had one yet), there is no need to even consider it.

A hysterectomy is not necessary, either for treatment of endometriosis OR anemia. Please consider treating the anemia (largely done with B vitamin supplements and dietary modification if you want to use nutritional means--but also, very easily done via homeopathy) before having a surgery which will be drastic and unnecessary.

Eralc Alegna and deprime: topical steroid use will cause skin tissue to dry out, thin out, crack and break open.


Deprime, your case looks completely iatrogenic to me (that means it's actually been made worse by the "treatments"). That is not necessarily a bad thing: only a very strong body will fight against symptom suppression when those symptoms are treated with drugs which are only designed to mask or cover up the symptom (and the drugs you've used are just that). If the symptom keeps coming back, it may be horrible, but it is preferable to the symptom disappearing only to have the infection relocate to a deeper, more vulnerable organ where symptoms will be hard to notice (while you get sicker and sicker).

Okay, Deprime: you've tried conventional medicine and they've got nothing. I would say now is the time to seriously consider an alternative medical approach. I would always recommend classical homeopathy because I know it works if it's done right--but you have to know what's expected and you have to understand that you will need to take a holistic approach to healing--no magic bullets, no hocus pocus. It's a process which takes committment from you and some time. I don't know anything about your case, but if you've been really sick with this for 4 years, I would basically say it should take about 4 months to clear up what's going on--and then you'll need to take an active role in making the necessary changes in your life to stay healthy.

You've got nothing to lose: but don't make the mistake of thinking alternative medicine involves self-medicating with over the counter products. If you want to use herbs, find a qualified herbalist; if you want to use traditional Chinese Medicine, find a qualified Chinese Medical doctor; if you want to use homeopathy, find a qualified classical homeopath. All of these methods use very powerful, very thoroughly researched medicines; and all of these modalities require 5 years of basic medical training. You've got to invest your time and committment to whichever one you choose but the pay off will be your regained health.

Eralc Alegna: You may have Lichen Schlerosis, but it sounds to me to be an iatrogenic form (meaning, if you hadn't been using the steroid creme you may never have come down with it). If it were me, I'd stop using the cream as it is making complications externally as well as internally. The skin symptoms of thinning and breaking are to be expected with this drug, and I do think they would make parts of the skin harden up (especially if the skin were thinning out). I'm not telling you to stop using it (not my decision), but I am saying the steroid is a big probable cause.

Either way, I'm beginning to think some B vitamin supplements would make a huge difference in this disease, just to give the body a lot of support in addressing some of these recurrent symptoms. Who was it who mentioned the folic acid idea first on this thread? That was a great suggestion. B vitamin supplementation is a huge treatment for anemia (it's generally a bad idea to supplement with iron as a treatment for anemia, as iron is actually dangerously stored in the body instead of being absorbed and properly used, so the "deficiency" doesn't come from an actual lack, just a dangerous tendency). It's also so necessary for proper digestion (which would address the IBS from stress). It certainly wouldn't hurt to use as a support in Deprime's case or Eralc Alegna's.

Deprime, if I can be of any help with resources about various alt.meds, let me know. Eralc Alegna, I strongly suggest the B vitamin route for you, I know it could not hurt and may help a great deal; Beetle, definitely try to address the anemia before opting for surgical procedures! I daresay homeopathy would really help you too--I can think of at least 4 or 5 remedies that have the symptoms of heavy, prolonged bleeding during the menses, cramping, and anemia, just off the top of my head. Wouldn't it be nice to just have a predictable, manageable period which doesn't require painkillers, time off, lots of pads, and drugs?
beetlegrl
chacha-you ROCK....

I definitely don't want to have any surgeries....so I'm willing to try anything else.

I did ask the Doc about the endometrie thing during my last visit (which was Sep) and he said, no you 'probably' don't have that.

I'll get some Vit B supps...what is a good dose? I don't want to overdo it, and I've heard that multi-vitamins really aren't as great as everyone says.

As for diet modification.....I try to cook healthy stuff and am sorda looking for a diet that promotes healthy moods too (my hubby is a depressive type person)...so I'm open to any suggestions.

Thanks for all the help!!

This thread has improved me 100% already......amazing what a support system we can make for ourselves....if we had to rely on med Docs entirely we'd all be TOTALLY NUTS for sure!!
chachaheels
First, you need to find out what kind of anemia you've got. I"m not missing the fact that you have some difficulties with digestion as well: that may be directly related to the anemia. Take this seriously: you need to get a clear diagnosis so you know exactly what you're dealing with. This isn't something your gynecologist will help with--you need a blood specialist for more information here. You'll still need your gynecologist but I'll get to that below.

Iron deficiency anemia is the most common type. When red blood cells are lost as a result of too much blood loss, a deficiency of iron occurs. Sometimes, iron supplements are used successfully: I'm not sure it's the way to go, as they seem to cause more trouble. It's best to get your iron requirements from foods, and avoiding foods which deplete iron or B vitamins.

One other thing I want to say here: I suspect endometriosis or at least fibroids with anemia every time I hear about excessive bleeding in the menses. Please go and have these ruled out or confirmed. They can be easily treated with homeopathy, but it really is good to know exactly what is taking place in your case. Even though your doc doesn't "think" you have endo, it is worth your while to know for certain one way or the other. This will be vital information for you to use whatever you choose to do to treat it. It's not enough to go on a "guess".

Pernicious anemia is associated with autoimmune disease, it develops at the last stage of autoimmune gastritis when the gastric mucosa has been destroyed. In this form of anemia your red blood cells are then destroyed by an autoimmune process. As a result, the body can't use the B12, digestion is compromised (you'd get IBS type symptoms) and the body can't produce the red blood cells anymore. Some say ten to fifteen percent of people who suffer this kind of autoimmune gastritis are suffering from pernicious anemia. Vegetarians, particularly vegans, are at high risk for pernicious anemia. Treatment with injectible B12 works for this well, but the B12 injections will be required on a life-long basis.

You really should find out exactly what kind of anemia you're dealing with here. That's another place where your diagnosis has to be clear.

Once that's done, and for everyone who wants a supportive B vitamin supplement course of action:

B vitamins are really necessary but supplements on the market are not always very good quality.

B12 in the form of methylcobalamin drops, injections, or sublingual tablets is the best form of supplementation. You will want to take 10,000 micrograms (mcg) per day. You can find tablets or drops usually in the cyanocobalamin form, but it is possible to get the methylcobalamin form, so keep looking. If you can't find the better form, the other form will do. It just has to be converted in the body from the cyanocobalamin to methylcobalamin. I'm trying to save a step.

If injectible is the only way, set up a program with your doctor so that you can have injections on a weekly, then monthly basis. If you have options other than injection, I have seen this compounded in a cream form too (usually for use with kids) but you will probably need a scrip to get this from your pharmacist.

You can usually find the sublingual B12 mixed with folic acid. I prefer this--this way you don't mask a folic acid deficiency inadvertently.

These go well with other highly absorbable forms of B vitamins on the market. I've seen a product around called Magnelevures, made by UNDA. This makes a drinkable form of B vitamins sourced from yeast, which you take on an ongoing basis. I like it, it's pleasant to take and highly absorbable.

Niacin, thiamin, folic acid, biotin, lipotropic factors, choline and inositol, the many numerous forms of B vitamins out there--a mixed B vitamin supplement is a good way to get many of these (but not a great way). Look for a supplement that does not encase their nutrients in magnesium stearate (you'll never absorb the nutrients). As always, drops, sublingual tabs, melt-on-the-tongue strips always work better; seek out a supplement by a company like Metagenics, Thorne, Douglas Labs, Biotics Research, Da Vinci Labs--they are more expensive but you are taking formulations you can actually use. Any B-combination vitamin from these manufacturers is a good, reliable source you'll actually utilize in the body. And, any time you take a B6 supplement, take it with pecans. They enhance absorption and actually magnify the nutrient availability.

The very best sources for B vitamins, and iron, of course, are food sources. Red meats, fresh, raw vegetables of every kind, deep green leafy vegetables (less spinach, more collards, beet greens, dandelion greens, etc) and whole grain--NOT refined--foods. Avoid all "enriched" foods or foods made especially with enriched wheat flours, as these actually deplete nutrients from the body they are so refined (these flours are always used in "whole wheat" breads, rye breads, and actually the majority of commercial bread products). Fresh cold water deep water fish (eg., salmon, arctic char, sardines, herring) are good; as are all forms of shellfish. As always, I suggest finding the very best sources of these foods--organic veggies, wild (as opposed to farmed) seafoods, or free range, naturally fed, pastured beef, lamb, and pork is always best. You'll also need to consider adding fats like butter, full fat milk and cream, eggs, and organ meats like liver to your diet (or take a very pure cod liver oil capsule every day instead). If you are vegetarian, you'll have to supplement to replace the meat nutrient sources. Consider practicing an ovo-lacto vegetarianism over veganism as there is no way to gain these nutrients otherwise. Please don't balk at the saturated fats, they are absolutely essential to nutrient absorption, hormone balance and production, and for treating what may be going on in the digestion if there is indeed an autoimmune process underway.

Of course, lactofermented foods are great--especially as a source of live cultures, which you need; taking digestive enzymes are helpful too (papaine, bromelain; proteases, lipases, amylases--you can easily find full digestive enzyme formulations to take with each meal to help ease the digestive issues).

It would pay, at this time and after such a long time of prolonged heavy bleeding, to have your thyroid checked out for function as well. A lack of iron inhibits thyroid hormone--so you will want to assess how well your thyroid's functioning too. It'll give you more information regarding the state of hormone balance in the body to boot. To be on the safe side, cut out all soy foods except for organic tofu or fermented forms of soy like miso (and have those once in a while). Check labels for ingredients described as "hydrolized protein", MSG, protein isolates, etc., as these are all just code words for soy. It's goitrogenic, meaning it will hinder proper thyroid function. Watch your intake of cabbage, broccoli, cauliflower, and other cruciform veggies--they are okay if they are lactofermented, but they're also goitrogenic if they're eaten any other way.

That was one long post. I still think you're in a position to benefit from a classical homeopath so if you need more information and resources to that end, please PM me.
autumnbreeze
Deprime: I know you said you've tried everything, but have you tried the Hydrogen Peroxide douche? I have been battling BV for 4 years also. This is my first time trying "home remedies". The hydrogen peroxide works WONDERS!! Also, on some of the older posts there was a lot of talk about vitamin C inserts (low milligrams). I haven't tried this but some have had success with it. I am no doctor or health guru but I believe that trying too many things at the same time or in succession may aggravate or confuse the body. I've been doing a hydrogen peroxide douche (7 days, then 1x weekly) and taking probiotics orally and I am seeing major progress. I'm going to stick to this regimen for 2-3 months before I jump to something else. I've been doing a lot of reading on this lately and many article/studies state that there are several different strains of Lactobacilli in the body (not just acidophilus) and to regain the healthy flora, one should take a probiotic supplements that contain atleast 3-4 strains of lactobacilli and it still make take atleast THREE MONTHS of consistent use to recolonize the good bacteria and regain the PH balance down there...and regaining and sustaining the PH balance is the only thing that is going to keep BV at bay...Just my 2 cents. Good luck to you!
unicorntrainer
I just realized that what was going on with me was BV, I've never had it before. Generally, if I start on a regiment of garlic, vitamin c and tea tree, I should be able to clear this up. Right? I have friends who have cleared up yeast infections with garlic almost overnight. I just want some reassurance. Thanks.
chachaheels
BV has symptoms which are common to many other ailments and diseases--it's best not to guess, but to go and have BV actually diagnosed so that you know for certain your symptoms aren't coming from something more serious.

Then, when you know for sure it's BV, you can try any number of the various treatments other people have said were successful on here.
jewelscando
I'm so glad someone on here finally mentioned the other smells besides Fish. I have more of a shit smell more then anything. Sorry for the language. I just went back on Boric, because my rash is finally gone. I will definately know this time if it comes back that it is related to the Boric. I'm not sure whats worse, fish, or crap. I'm not having sex, so I only smell it when I touch it and do a whiff test, or sometimes I put a Q-tip up there and whiff that. Doctors can't give us any answers girls. Why?? Because there are none. Where I live, they just raised tax's on cigerattes .80 cents a pack. Of course they lie and say it's for education, however, whenever tax's are raised on cigerettes, NOBODY can seem to tell you where the money went. Why not raise some tax's somewhere to find a fricken CURE FOR B.V. since it's THE BIGGEST issue with women in child bearing age. MORE SO THEN YEAST INFECTIONS. What a bunch of crap. I'm sick of it. But, what else can I do other then complain about it.
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