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stargazer
gt, yeah, it sounds like she's still playing you. if you want to have fun, then by all means, have fun. just be careful. i'm not too impressed with this chick.
girltrouble
no, i really appreciate y'all keeping my feet on the ground. she was definitely making with the tease. it was kind of oblique, but she was hinting, thank god i can count on my sheer laziness to keep me out of trouble. i think she's just kinda sniffing around cos she might be "curious, not serious." had she not said the thing about being friends i might have headed over, just to see how things played out, but that friend thing... i was kinda thinking it was another case of mixed messages.

oh, and she gave me her phone number (finally). and i didn't ask or nuffin.
koffeewitch
Maybe I'm the optimist of the group; don't know if she's "playing you" or just slowly trying to get to know you (which is no crime in my book).

And 7: Girl, I have OCD Divining sessions, too. I now almost NEVER divine for myself and if I do I take the first reading, ugly truth and all. No use trying to try again for a better outcome, the cards (or my subconscience) don't lie.
girltrouble
i don't know if she's playing me so much as she's curious/confused about me. we've been hanging out almost every other day in the last week, and if i didn't come up with excuses, we would have hung out every day. i might be naive, but why bother if you just wanted to play someone?

she's been dressing more femme everytime we hang out, she's been seriously flirting with me, ("i smell GOOD! smell me!" extending her arm for me to smell it, flashing her cleavage etc.) but i'm being super laid back about reacting. just playing along, i complement her, but i'm mild about it. anything i say could be something you'd say to a friend.

i hope it's not my ego, but my theory for the mixed signals is that i'm not the person she sees herself with. she wants 2 or 3 kids in five years, but she's said that she is very different around me than she is with most people (as am i). around me she's more outgoing, playful, silly, funny, biting. i think we connect on an intellectual level, sense of humor wise, and i suspect that she's a bit baffled by it. she doesn't know if she wants to be friends, or have a fling, but i don't think more than that.
auralpoison
Methinks your instincts on this are correct.
koffeewitch
Me, too. Are you okay with having a sweet little fling even if it doesn't necessarily turn into something deeper?

girltrouble
that is a very, very good question koffee. i do know that i am crushing out on her more every time we hang out, but our friendship seems very fluid to me. i don't know if that romantic sheen will last for her, after the sarcastic veneer has worn off. i guess i just don't know. i've never really been good with flings. in my history it always turns in to something deeper. that said, for most of that history i was a boy...
koffeewitch
Yeah, it helps to be a surfacey (shallow) person to have a quick, convenient (shallow) relationship. It aint you, babe. Atleast from my impressions from reading your posts. You wanna drift closer to her, because you're intrigued and can't help yourself, but you want to protect your feelings from being smashed all over the concrete. A tough, tough choice.
zoya
QUOTE(girltrouble @ Nov 16 2009, 09:05 AM) *
. i guess i just don't know. i've never really been good with flings. in my history it always turns in to something deeper. that said, for most of that history i was a boy...



I'm the same - and I think boy or girl, you're still you and that's how you're wired. Just cause it seems *everyone else* is capable of having a fling, doesn't mean you have to..

After many times of having a broken heart after starting things with someone telling myself 'it's only a fling' I realize that's just how I'm wired, and I'm trying to live my life in acceptance of that. If I like someone enough to actually want to hang out with them, have stuff in common, etc etc then there has to be stated interest from them of being open to things going further before I'll cross those lines. It's just how it has to be if I don't want to get myself into a situation where I'm going to spiral into darkness for a few weeks / months if things go to shit. I decided my sanity is much more important to me, and anyway, when I'm sane I'm much more attractive smile.gif

I can have a fling, it just has to be with someone who I have some sort of attraction to, but it so ill suited for me - for whatever reason - that, as you put it GT, they have 'built in smelling salts.' Kinda like IBT - he is so flaky, into crap music, kind of a chancer, that even though I have a hilarious time with him, I know exactly what his number is and no way no how could I let my mind allow my heart to get entangled in any kind of way.

ps - I agree with AP.
girltrouble
yeah. i'm fine with that, i've never really cared much for flings, because i fall DEEP. i just wonder if my being transgendered is her smelling salts, you know? meh. me thinks i been thinking too much about what i think. lol. this week we aren't hanging out till thurs, so i think we'll both be doing some breathing. personally i think the best thing to do might be to put as little energy in that direction as possible. the next move is hers.

ETA:i just talked to her for an hour, she said she called me at noon cos she wanted to "have lunch with me" by eating our leftovers from last night at the same time. what's more, at the end of which she kept trying to talk me into seeing a movie with her tonight... maybe i'm underestimating how much she likes me. blink.gif

i sort of wonder if crush girl is talking to her friends about me too. you know, kind of testing the waters. like saying she's been hanging with a new friend she really likes...who is transexual, just to gage their reaction. she posted something on FB about how agnostics and athiests are the most open minded people. she's posted stuff like that a few times over the last week, but i just got off the phone with her and she kind of eluded that it was obliquely about me.
mouse
hi ladies

firstly--gt, i think i agree with the idea that she's sort of grappling with the newness of having feelings for someone who isn't what she's familiar with. i think she obviously likes you, but she may be acting crazylike because she's unsure of how committed she is to those feelings. it might take her a little bit to get past any intrinsic hangups she has (and correct me if i'm wrong, but is she predominantly straight?) and in the meantime doesn't want to hurt you if she ends up being unable to fully confront it. she's doing it in a weird way and it translates into being a total coy tease, but it seems like she's testing out the waters and her own boundaries. i think you're doing perfectly in this situation--keeping her at arms length while she figures it out, but not totally dismissing the possibility. i hope she gets over herself and figures out what she wants soon! you're awesome and deserve someone who's totally ready to be with you.

secondly--i've found myself in a very new for me situation. i'm dating two boys at once, and i have NEVER done anything like this before and i'm not sure how to handle it. to complicate matters, one of the boys is the dude i was seeing before who i came in to complain about a few months ago. we're back in touch and we're dating again, albeit very cautiously and sort of "starting from scratch" again and seeing where it goes. we met up a month or so ago and hooked up, and had a few more confusing hookups before we sat down and talked about it. things are about the same insofar as he's not ready for a relationship, but he clearly wants to spend time with me so we're testing it out. the other guy i met during the period of awkward hookups with the ex, and we've been out a few times. we haven't slept together yet, but i think i'd like to keep seeing him since he's fun and interesting. i know that if ex were not in the picture (at all...like if i'd met new guy before i even met old guy) i'd be really into it. but he is, so i'm not. i do also like the idea of continuing to see new dude as a sort of protection against falling too hard for old dude while we figure shit out, but i don't like the idea that i'm keeping someone on the back burner. i know people do this (date more than one person at a time), but i never have, and i'm confused. am i being disingenuous by not telling either of them? i plan to tell new dude that i'm not looking for something serious, but if any of you have any advice or suggestions i'd love to hear them. thanks!
auralpoison
As long as you haven't had any talks about exclusivity with either gent, it is perfectly reasonable to date both of them. I don't think you'd be disingenuous (Bravo on the word choice, that's one of my favorites!) by not disclosing to them that you are seeing them both. It's none of their business, really.

One question, though . . . does "hooking up" mean that you have resumed sexual relations with old guy? Because I am of the school that usually prohibits having more than one peen visiting my ladycave at a time. Pre-full-blown relationship with HB, I continued to date around. I made out with one guy & fucked up & had drunken/stoned shame spiral sex with another. That shame spiral sex was something I'd never done before & it solidified my desire for a serious relationship with one person & one person only: HB & that I'd better not fuck it up.

In the end, I think you're smart enough to do what's best for you & you'll know when the time comes.
girltrouble
what aural said. unless you've had the "going steady" conversation, you are a free agent. and who you do what with is between the involved parties only.

plus one question: you never said what you want. are you looking for a relationship? if so why are you waiting for the old guy? are you putting what you want off for the possibility of guy 1 over the reality of guy 2?

mouse
shit, i thought i put this in the general relationship thread. sorry for miscategorizing...i can move if necessary.

ap--yes, i had sex with the old guy (let's call him guy 1). i have not yet had sex with the new guy (henceforth guy 2) but we're supposed to hang out this week which will be date 4 and i feel like if we DON'T have sex at this point, or at least fool around significantly, it'll be weird and he'll start thinking that i'm uninterested. also--i think i'd like to have sex with him. guy 1 and i only just had the official "we are dating again" talk saturday, and agreed that it would be prudent to maybe not have sex for a little bit as the previous encounters were pretty much just sex and confusing, but i imagine it will not be long before we resume (quote from him after discussion & minor kissing "i have to go get groceries now or else i'm going to take off all your clothes"). i've never done this before. honestly i don't even think i've had sex with more than one person in the span of a fucking year. part of me really wants to just see what that's like. but am i obligated to tell the other guys? guy 1 slept with other people when we first started dating and didn't disclose to me until i asked him months later. which i'm not put out about, personally--i feel like if you don't have the "exclusivity" talk, that's fine, as long as protection is used. however, like i said i have no experience with this situation.

i think if i don't tell guy 2 that i'm not interested in something serious, i will feel guilty and like i am lying and that will preclude me being comfortable and a pleasure to be with in any of our interactions.

gt: i'm not looking for anything, really. i like guy 1 a lot and i'm interested to see if things progress with him--we obviously enjoy each others' company and at this point we have a bit of history; if he changes his mind about settling down, i'd like to be around (if not, so be it). i like guy 2 insofar as i'm enjoying hanging out with him and getting to know him, and i'm attracted to him. i know that i would not be able to emotionally involve myself with him right now (#1, i can't hold more than one person emotionally in my brain at once, and #2 if guy 1 ends up dumping me again, i know i'd be too bummed to be with anyone else for a while) but i'm not looking for "a relationship" in general.
sevenseconds
QUOTE(mouse @ Nov 16 2009, 09:24 PM) *
it might take her a little bit to get past any intrinsic hangups she has (and correct me if i'm wrong, but is she predominantly straight?) and in the meantime doesn't want to hurt you if she ends up being unable to fully confront it. she's doing it in a weird way and it translates into being a total coy tease, but it seems like she's testing out the waters and her own boundaries. i think you're doing perfectly in this situation--keeping her at arms length while she figures it out, but not totally dismissing the possibility. i hope she gets over herself and figures out what she wants soon! you're awesome and deserve someone who's totally ready to be with you.


You speak my thoughts, mouse.
But how do you know before you try?
This boils down to the no-sex before marriage paradox, *how do i know if I can be married to you before I know how you taste?* She's never held a T-girl in her arms. How does she know if she can handle it before she handles *you*.
And also, gt, going "deep" - yes dammit yes, me too, every time! - so the question is, do you feel you should only go deep with someone you hope will be there for the rest of your life/ for many years? I personally don't. Some of the deepest most intense things I've been in, I knew quite well it wasn't meant to last. But the "built in smelling salts" (great metaphor btw!) actually let me go deeper and drop inhibitions because i knew the unit came with "breaks", so I could go out of control. (And knowing they were there, I never used them, but that's me. And I am obviously the crash n burn kind, so I probably shouldn't open my mouth.)
I would not trade what I touched and learned of myself in those intense not-to-last (but not really short) relationships for anything under the sun. So I think we're talking the difference between the goal-oriented relationship (settle down) and the process-oriented relationship (what can we learn/ be/ touch together).
The fact that she "knows" rationally that she doesn't want the ever-after with you (*if* that it true to start with) doesn't mean she won't let herself go for a deep and beautiful ride, maybe even her poetic way of "saying goodbye to everything", including the lining of her heart. (But I am an incurable romantic that way.)

Or. She might just be toying with being open-minded and edgy. You can't know till you know.

ETA: But it seems to me that question will always arise unless you make a rule to only date girls who have dated T-girls before? I hope you figure it out painlessly, in spite of my pain-addict thoughts, I do!
auralpoison
I think as long as your boundaries have been established as far as no exclusivity, it is perfectly kosher for you to date/have sex with both guys if you want to, Mouse. As long as you are playing safe, play with as many peens as you like. If it makes you feel weird, then don't. Only you can make that choice for you & we'll stick with you no matter what you decide.

I don't think there is anything wrong with telling guy 2 that you're not looking for something serious, but you DON'T have to tell him it's in tiny part because you're not sure where you stand with guy 1. Again, you're not exclusive, so anybody else you may be having relations with is none of his business. Also, everything is in play right now & you're young. Your twenties are alllll about having new experiences. Why not have fun with 1 & 2? And in having said fun, you also get to know a little bit more about yourself, no?

Calling them 1 & 2 is giving me a giggle because I keep thinking Dr. Seuss & Thing 1 & Thing 2!

To explain: the only reason I have my ladycave rule is because I had a gf when I first moved out that was doing three guys at once: her ex, her current, & her side piece. Her fucking all of them didn't squick me, her lack of hygiene did. I needed to do laundry, but my load was small, so I asked if she had a few towels that needed a run through. She offered up her sheets & didn't tell me until we were folding them later that she'd fucked all three of them on the sheets & had just scraped the resulting . . . effluvia off before each one. I've felt weird about fucking more than one guy at a time ever since. And this is coming from a woman that once made dates with two different guys to see the same film at the same theatre in the same night & still managed to pull three phone numbers from three other men whilst on said dates without getting caught. Ah, c'est la vie.
girltrouble
i guess i asked the question, mouse, because it sounds like you are waiting for guy one. it sounds even more true in your last reply.



seven, if i made a rule not to date any woman who hasn't dated a t-girl before, i'd never date again. really they are too far in between and the amount of personal identity questioning is kind of prohibitive (seriously, even mr t. who was a dyed in the wool dyke, since highschool but was open enough to date a gay man for years, dated me and questioned her own gender identity.) it's hard enough drawing that kind of line with men, with women, it's a non-starter.

QUOTE
the question is, would you only go deep with someone you hope will be there for the rest of your life/ for many years?
dating is a complex thing and i suppose i've put too much thinking into it. i'm much too protective of my heart. i don't think i'd ever seriously date someone if i didn't think they were pretty f'ing amazing. so potential is kind of part of the equation. but i don't know that i really believe in ever after. i've dated women i loved with my heart and soul and the longest it lasted was 7 years. my average is 5 years. so that's my idea of a good relationship length.

QUOTE
Or. She might just be toying with being open-minded and edgy. You can't know till you know.

ugh. that's true, and i think one of the reasons i am cautious. cultural tourism is gross, and that sort of thing is equally disgusting. as for the idea of my own "smelling salts," it makes me ill. i guess because the big one is so glaringly obvious. but usually it scares people off before rather than down the road.
crazyoldcatlady
*delurk*

QUOTE
more than one peen visiting my ladycave at a time


snarf!!

*relurk*
geekchickknits
QUOTE(girltrouble @ Nov 17 2009, 04:48 AM) *
cultural tourism is gross


There have been times where I have been very attracted to women, and wanted to see where it goes, but the bias towards "tourists" I have sometimes observed in the lesbian community makes me uncomfortable - almost like I need to choose to identify before I can explore. This may be one of the reasons why you're receiving mixed messages from her. I'm not saying this is the case with every person, but it's something that I have experienced.
girltrouble
oh, and i can see that being the case, geek, from her getting more femme as we've seen more of each other and some of the conversations we've had about how personal chemestry can make you go from butchy to femme depending on the person you're with. ::sigh:: oh, it's all just a big ol' intellectual mess. lol
mouse
i agree with geek...and speaking myself as someone who considers herself attracted to women but has never actually slept with one, i think this is much in part to the motherfucking intimidation--like, if the relationship doesn't work out it's because "you're not really queer", not because you just weren't right for each other. she might be being hesitant for that reason. there's usually not much of a problem with trying someone on for size if they're what you normally go for, but if the person you're checking out differs from your personal norm, and it doesn't go 100% perfectly happily ever after, it's automatically chalked up to that difference. and that makes EVERYONE feel crappy.

gt--i'm not sure i like the term "waiting around". i'm dating thing 1 (hee!) and i like him a lot and i'm curious to see where it will go. but i'm not hitching my train to his against all odds--and i think that's one of the reasons i'm interested in keeping something going with thing 2, as a way to prove to myself that thing 1 is not my only option. i just don't want to have my own little empowerment trip at the expense of someone else's feelings...but maybe it's too early to even trot any of this out yet. i'm actually very curious towards the idea of more than one ladycave-visiting peen on the menu, simply for new experiences and comparison purposes alone. if it feels weird, i will stop. but i always wanted to be a(n ethical) slut and i think this is the closest i will ever get tongue.gif
girltrouble
i don't think i'm thinking she isn't queer enough (she's dated a quite a few women), but the whole, "being edgy" thing seems possible to me. perhaps i ought to be more confident in my own attractiveness instead of doubting it constantly. hmmm... something to think about.

eek. sorry, mouse. i guess i shouldn't have put it like that, "waiting around," is pretty awful phrasing. it just seemed from your reply, that you were much more interested in thing 1 than you were in thing 2. after all, you didn't say if thing 2 broke up with you, you'd be too bummed to be with anyone for a while. you did say that, however, about thing 1. i guess thing 2 sounds more like a spare tire. you know?
mouse
yeah, definitely interested in thing 1 more than thing 2 (even if only because i know him better/we have a history), but interested in both honestly. i'm going to be honest with thing 2 and just let him know im not into anything serious/exclusive, but that i'd like to continue to see him.

you totally need to focus on your hotness!!! which is plentiful, and should rightly attract awesome chicks fully ready to hit it.
anna k
girltrouble, you are an amazing woman, with a ton of charisma and smarts and power. I'm sure you will find some amazing women who find you irresistible and captivating.
sevenseconds
Damn right, anna k.
And more. Cuz I just now found the "Say cheese" files and saw some pictures... Like, are you kidding me? I've always KNOWN gt was sniper-hot from how she speaks/ writes/ thinks herself, but dayun, lady. I SAW you, gt. I saw you. You're not getting away with this.
(I'm not even speaking to you, as a matter of fact, is how wrong this is.)
Why on earth are you worrying your stunning head over cultural tourism and the yikes? Lie back on your hotness laurels and just know k.n.o.w. KNOW they will keep coming from the four ends of the world with dry food and sleeping bags and line up meekly and speak in whispers between them till their ticket number comes up and you deign to shine on them.

I mean, yeah, we all get to doubt our fabulous selves once in a while, (just to thicken the plot, right?) so I'm gonna chill out in a sec, BUT you know what i mean?

ETA: (Ok, got over it. Now I'm speaking to you again.)
girltrouble
uh, thanks. i appreciate y'all saying that.

as for crush girl? heaven knows i can take a hint. [crash*burn]

fuck crushes. i hate feeling like this.
sevenseconds
Well.... It doesn't mean you have to stop posting and venting, gt...
I'm a foreigner, I don't get the hint [crash*burn]?

But, I forgot: about your own "glaringly obvious" smelling salts - lotsa chicks find that not a red flag, but a bonus. A hot smart got-it-all girl with a tongue like a whip AND the ultimate source of joy attached? More please.
girltrouble
i'm mailing out your check tonight, seven.
treehugger
yeah, I think I need to start posting in here. Wanted to share this text exchange between me and my crush, he is one of my co-workers:

(at work, we have to undergo tuberculosis testing which involves needles-this is a text after I went for the testing, after having been badgered by him for an hour to go)

Me: I bled like a stuck pig!

(and he must have not heard the phone or something, because no response that day)

- - - -
(The next day, after work, at the tavern, drinking with my senior partner...)

G: I just got your text from yesterday. If I had known I could have kissed it and made it all better! :-)

Me: Hehe you are such a flirt.

G: Only with you sweetheart!!

Me: Awww I feel all glowy now!

G: :-) !


~and at this point, my senior partner sends him a text: "quit messing with my girlfriend, you are cutting into our drinking time"

Me: H is fucking with you now

G: Tell him to shut up and get drinkin, I want to smooze you.

Me: Awww I like it when you innuendo me smile.gif

G: Ditto :-)
girltrouble
hee hee! that is so cute, tree!
mumblestutter
i hate this waiting game. i couldn't hang out last night b/c i was sick. tonight we talked briefly. he said he would call me back if there was anything at all. and i haven't heard anything from him. i want that one a lot. i've never communicated with anyone so well and i really enjoy his company. but at this rate I'M NEVER GOING TO GET THE CHANCE TO TELL HIM THAT.

now i just have to wait patiently for the next chance to meet up or hang out. i need to get better at creating excuses to see each other.
girltrouble
so yeah, bullshit, bullshit bullshit, same old shit. etc. etc.

treehugger
((((GT)))))

yeah, more text message flirting going on here between me and my crush. It is so WRONG. It can never happen, but I am enjoying the ride while it lasts.

History: I've had horrible insomnia lately-every night I wake up around midnight and stay awake until about an hour before I have to get up.

He: Sleep Tight!

Me: Hope I do sleep tight. Maybe I need toys to put me to sleep? wink.gif

He: Not only did I blush, but you can call me a "toy" any time you want! smile.gif
epinephrine
I have a crush that I absolutely shouldn't have. I've got this friend who, back when we first met three years ago, I had a brief and very strange kind of fling with. I wasn't looking for a relationship, and he's way older than me, not a particularly functional person, and totally not boyfriend material, but there was still an attraction there. He's very petite (i.e. harmless and therefore safe to have a stupid fling with), affectionate, well-read, and covered in tattoos. I'd been single for a couple of years and just couldn't figure out the deal with this guy and how I felt about him, and before long we started crossing lines that had been blurry to begin with. The weirdest (and unhealthiest) part was our unspoken code of silence; we never, ever talked about our relationship, set any boundaries, discussed what we wanted, or told our friends. Well, I didn't tell mine (until they started to figure it out on their own, anyway). I don't know if he told his. We were strictly "just friends" until the doors were closed. Deep down, I felt like what we were doing was wrong and I was ashamed. We had sex twice and it was beyond awful - I just gave up, rolled over and went to sleep after listening to the bedsprings squeak for a couple of minutes - but he was fun to fool around with. A lot of fun, actually. He was very passionate, had an exciting bit of kink, and gave the best oral I've ever had (that's right, J - better than you! And you, too, T). And lately I just can't stop thinking about it.

Anyway, long story short, I was never totally comfortable with the situation (and I doubt he was, either), and it stopped as silently and mysteriously as it started. No conversation, no "we shouldn't do this anymore," nothing. We kept hanging out, same as before - we just stopped fooling around when I crashed in his bed. And then I stopped crashing in his bed. And a couple months later I found myself in a relationship with someone else.

So, here I am, three years later, with that relationship come and gone, but this friend is still here. He and I still hang out all the time and my attraction still seems to be there. Sometimes it's overwhelming. This guy is just so wrong for me, and I'd never even consider having a real relationship with him, but...he makes me hot. I can't help it. It's been eight months since I got laid. My hormones are getting backed up, starting to outnumber my brain cells. Every time we hang out I think about it: we've known each other for years, and we know and trust each other more now than we did the first time; we've slept together before and managed to maintain a good friendship; neither of us would have any expectations; I know he still wants me. It's starting to become distracting. We talked on the phone last night and I kept gapping out of the conversation because of these thoughts.

Oh, Busties...I need somebody to come over here and slap me - or fuck me - before I do something stupid...
anna k
awww epi. I don't think you're being stupid. If you can have a FWB thing with this guy, and no other expectations, then it could be a lot of fun. Do you feel that you would become emotionally attracted to him and risk your heart? I think you have your mind in the right place of having sex as a release, and not as the means to an end.

I miss having sex with my FWB, but the last time we did it, it was so-so, and I don't feel the same lust for him anymore, but my mind often goes to the good times we had as a comforting feel.
zoya
epi - why don't you tell him exactly what you said here? - just share how you're feeling and that it's distracting and disturbing to you and you don't know what to do with it. And leave it at that and see what he says. The key is to be able to just share what you're feeling with no expectations or trying to direct an outcome, and to be able to just sit back and accept whatever he has to say.

I find in my experience that its really fucking scary to get it out there, because you don't know what the response will be - but it feels so much better to just name that pink elephant in the middle of the room. seriously, what's the worst thing that could happen? He tells you that he never wants to see you again and not even be friends? I seriously doubt that would happen and even if it did, at least you'd feel the relief of getting it off your chest and not having that untethered vibe be there anymore. It's not like just sharing what you're feeling would change anything - the feeling / answer is already there on both ends, it's just not out in the open.

anyway, just my .02 cents worth...

Persiflager
Epi: That honestly sounds like a pretty good FWB set-up to me! Just skip the sex and stick to fooling around wink.gif

I don't think it's necessarily unhealthy to not discuss your friendship - some relationships naturally have fuzzy boundaries. The important thing is that you were able to change the relationship when it made you uncomfortable without any difficulty. Trust your instincts, and have your wicked way with him if it feels right.
epinephrine
I know, a lot of things in this situation line up for a pretty good FWB arrangement. I dunno. I still have some reservations. My only previous FWB experience was that time with him 3 years ago, and it wasn't healthy. I remember being confused and feeling icky about the whole thing, but there was something about him that kept bringing me back. There was zero communication. Of course, too much communication would lead to a level of emotional engagement that I'm not interested in with him. It's a tricky balance and I'm scared of fucking it up. And I know he's not going to make the first move and I'd have to, which I generally do not do. My (admittedly questionable) attitude toward relationships is that they're risky and troublesome and if the other person doesn't make the first move, I'm certainly not going to trouble myself to get into a situation that probably won't work out anyway. But maybe, just maybe, if they're interested enough to make the first move, things might be ok.

Wow. That's fucked up, isn't it? And that's pretty much what he's like, too.

I don't know. I don't plan on being in a relationship again for a while, or even dating. I'm just not emotionally available right now. But I don't see that as a reason to starve myself of sex and affection. And I absolutely do not do casual sex. The thought of having sex with strangers makes my skin crawl. Ugh. A good friend with benefits would be ideal, and this guy (who we'll call R from now on) is as good a candidate as I have at the moment. He possesses some traits that aren't particularly favourable in a FWB (he can be negative and immature, and he has a drinking problem - I like to say that his heart's in the right place, but his head's up his ass), but I suppose if he's good enough to be my friend he's good enough to be a friend with benefits. In spite of his flaws, he is a very good friend, and I guess it's better that he's someone I'm not likely to fall in love with. He's as emotionally unavailable as I am, actually, which is...encouraging. Is there a friend with benefits thread where I can explore this a little more without further derailing this thread? I sense some doors opening here...

Well, whether I end up pursuing this or not, it's definitely given me lots to think about. I may check in with my counsellor about it, make sure I'm not just looking for a distraction. But I'm definitely feeling a lot better about this whole situation now.

Oh, and I have another crush! There's this gorgeous girl in my self-defence class who I've always had eyes for, and she's a total sweetheart, too. We went to the same school up until a couple of months ago, and we'd see each other there occasionally as well. We've exchanged numbers and promises to hang out, but we haven't done it yet. But I found her on Tracebook tonight and she added me, so we'll be able to keep in touch better and hopefully we'll hang out eventually. She's pagan and bi (if that's what the "interested in: women and men" on FB means, anyway) and she lives on a boat and she's a blue belt in kenpo which means she could probably kick my ass, which is hot. She's got beautiful smooth latte-coloured skin and brown eyes and the kind of curves that make me melt and she's just ohmygod hot...and she has a boyfriend. Stupid epi, lusting after the girls with boyfriends. Oh well. I don't mind. As long as she doesn't mind me perving at her occasionally. She's just too hot to ignore.
odysseylily
Hello Busties! I am often in the Moooving on thread, but recently I have met someone and all I can say is, wow, am I crushing out. So I just had to post on here.

My crush (we'll call him M) is super different from all the guys I've dated or liked. To fall back on high school cliches, I'm a goth (who tends to go for other goths) and he's a prep. Things are going really nicely. We've had a few dates, all of which went spectacularly. The thing I'm freaking out about is that every single one of my past relationships has developed between a friend and I where there was a big dramatic "I love you" moment (I'm exaggerating a bit) but point is, it was all very obvious. It's only been in the past couple months that I've been doing the "going on dates" thing. And I am at a complete loss at telling when, how, and if these dates progress to a relationship. So confused. Any feedback?

((((((Epi))))))
I suck at the FWB thing, but it looks like you are in a good spot for it! Congrats lady!
flanker_ji
Odyssey, this is where the exclusivity conversation comes in - if you're both having fun and want to keep seeing one another (and have already discussed that you're looking for a relationship), it will get to the point where one of you just has to know if the other is interested in making things exclusive, and then you'll have your answer.

Never have had an FWB, so no comment there!
odysseylily
Thanks Flanker! Hmm, neither of us have specifically said whether we're looking for a relationship. I am, but I guess if a guy doesn't tell me that he isn't looking for a relationship, I kind of assume he is . . .

Nevertheless, I'm excited!
epinephrine
Yay Odyssey! So happy for you. And I've always been a fan of odd couples. Goth-goth? Meh, nothing interesting there. Goth-prep? Hot!

God - now that I've let myself feel what I'm feeling, I'm crushing so, so hard on this guy. I'm waiting for the opportunity to come and kick me in the ass. I have a feeling this is one of those things I can't force. But when the opportunity comes, I'll have to take it, because I know he won't. People know, though. There's apparently a sexual tension between us that's clearly visible to our friends. In the past two weeks, two people I've barely hung out with have commented on it. One said we were perfect for each other and we should get together, and another thought we actually were together and was amazed when I said we weren't. I have no intention of getting together with him, but he's more than welcome in my bed.

And, in other news, someone has a crush on me, and I need to know how to let him down easy, 'cause he seems like a really nice guy but he's totally not my type and I'm not interested. I should have told him I was gay when he asked me, but in my habit of bumbling honesty I told him I wasn't completely gay, and I think I may have given him the impression that he had a chance, which he doesn't. Now he wants to hang out, and I don't really want to because I think it'll be date-y. I suck at this. I hate letting people down. I was in a relationship for 3 months once because I was so scared to turn the girl down. I'm so clueless when it comes to people. I feel like I'm constantly learning everything the hard way.
odysseylily
My fling with M has fizzled out. I'm catching the non-interested vibes from him. I'm really disappointed. I like him a lot, still.
epinephrine
Aw, that sucks, dude. You're clearly too good for him, anyway.

Well, I haven't made any kind of move on R yet, but there's definitely heat between us. He came over for dinner last night and was very touchy-feely. He kept grabbing my shoulders or arms for emphasis while he was talking to me, even when he had to reach across a good-sized gap to do it, and when I was washing up after dinner he gave my shoulders a quick massage (he's actually a registered massage therapist, although he never pursued it as a career). I wonder if he's noticed anything different in the vibe he gets from me lately.

For a lot of different reasons, I have a really hard time feeling safe with guys. Although I am attracted to them, things get really complicated when it comes to sex. R is as harmless as they come, which is part of the reason why I was able to sleep with him before and why I'm able to be as attracted to him as I am now. But with guys I really can't enjoy myself unless I'm able to take my time and get comfortable, and I'm always worried that they won't understand and will think I'm being demanding or puritannical. Of course, I know that I have every right to take my time and hold off on sex until I'm ready, and that I shouldn't feel bad about my needs, but I always feel like they'll just confuse and frustrate the guy and cause anxiety for me, and if it's going to be like that there's really no point in having sex with them at all, so I just don't bother. I just always anticipate pressure, and I don't deal well with pressure. I tend to doubt myself, cave in, and do things I'm not comfortable with, and then I hate myself and the person I did them with. I'm laddressing that issue in my counselling sessions and am starting to deal with it, but I'm still hesitant to put myself in that situation. As harmless as R is, he can also be kind of clueless. I'm still worried about opening this door.
odysseylily
I actually spoke too soon. We hung out almost all weekend. He's had to work a lot lately, and I've been stressed out and depressed about financial issues, hence the oversensitivity. So we'll see how things go smile.gif I'm just enjoying taking it slow and having fun at this point.
epinephrine
Glad to hear it, Odyssey.

Well, looks like I kinda missed the boat with R. He's met someone. Oh well. He'll always be there.
odysseylily
sad.gif that's too bad, epi.
anna k
I'm sorry, epi. You can still have a little crush on him. The girl in your self-defense class sounds like a dream come true, I love how you described her.

That sounds good, Odyssey. Just have fun with him. smile.gif

I've had a couple of little crushes lately, but they're on unattainable people, so I don't really care.

futura
Yay Odissey!

So i talked to fc. Y'all are probably wondering why oh why i put any more energy in this guy. But unless i talked to him about the whole sorry drama, i felt there was no closure for me. Now i can move on. Which i could already, but i want him out of my system, and talking helped.

When i have problems with friends i tend to hash it out, no stone left unturned, you know? But this guy...well he understands now (at some level) that he really really hurt me. We met in a bar on Friday night and he just talked back. He did the same thing to a girl i know (the whole 'i like you so much' and then take it back) and he refused to acknowledge it was the same thing. So i got sarcastic and he didn't like that one bit. Alcohol didn't help ofcourse. So that wasn't the closure i had hoped for. But i also saw a glimp of the person he really is, wanting to have control all the time, he just starts to argue whenever there's a conflict because otherwise he has to take responsibility.Too close for comfort and all that.

Yesterday we met up for a cup of coffee. I think it's clear to him now, but for me it's really about me wanting to say certain things and be done with it. I see now that he never changed, that he has so much issues he's afraid to address himself, and that's why he has so few friends, i guess. I'll leave him alone for now. It's time to go out and meet new people.

I'm so glad things didn't work out with him romantically, he's one of the most immature people i ever met. But his front is all 'cute guy who means well and cares for you'.

I went out with some friends this Saturday, to an exhibition with bands playing. There were at least three men i liked. This one guy..i dunno, i didn't even talk to him because i want to give myself some rest and take it slow, but i kinda hope to see him around.
epinephrine
Well, apparently it didn't work out between R and his crush, so that option still stands, I guess. He's been pissing me off lately, though. He's a good guy deep down inside, but sometimes that goodness is really deep down inside. He can be an insensitive prick. Not a turn on.

I ran into my best friend from back in the day yesterday. We had a bad falling out a few years back - we were living together, he developed a nasty little coke habit, and coke fiends do not make good friends or roommates - but we've known each other so long and been through so much shit, with and without each other, that it's all water under the bridge now. It was amazing, like nothing's changed. He's also gorgeous (oh, and totally, totally gay), and I was in love with him for years. I thought I was over him. But...I dunno, he's so damn charismatic that I don't think anyone can know him and not have at least a little crush on him. Apparently, he's not so totally, totally gay anymore, either. He started sleeping with women when he was super strung out, and doesn't seem to mind a little pussy now and then. He considers himself bi now. And, damn me, I couldn't stop thinking about it after. In all our time of partying and being irresponsible horny queer twentysomethings together, we never actually slept together. We made out a few times and he made a few passes at me when he was fucked up, but I felt like I'd be taking advantage of him and it'd be weird after, so I always turned him down even as I was getting totally wet thinking about it. But he's still friends with some of the girls he slept with - he introduced me to one of them yesterday - and...c'mon. A gay guy and a lesbian. That would either be really fucking hot and intense or really fucking awkward and bad. But I'm going for hot and intense. I still remember what it was like kissing him - everyone has a different kissing style, and when you find someone who has the same style you do, and you meet in the same rhythm and just come together so naturally, it's...oh, fuck, it's intense. He was a great kisser. I still think about it. I always felt like we might hook up someday. I'm very curious to see where this goes.
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