Help - Search - Members - Calendar
Full Version: small breast support group - (I need it even if they don't)
The BUST Lounge > Forums > Our Bodies, Our Hells
Pages: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37, 38, 39, 40, 41, 42, 43, 44, 45, 46, 47, 48, 49, 50, 51, 52, 53, 54, 55, 56, 57, 58, 59, 60, 61, 62, 63, 64, 65, 66, 67, 68, 69, 70, 71, 72, 73, 74, 75, 76, 77, 78, 79, 80, 81, 82, 83, 84, 85
maddy29
hey, i have saggy b cup out of shape boobs right now, so not really "small".

it's weird, because when i went on the pill and gained some weight (due to laziness), i got bigger boobs. the boobs i'd always wanted! it was pretty cool for a while, shirts suddenly looked sexy on me, etc.

but ya know? i realllly miss my little boobs. they were so cute and perky and small. i didn' thave to wear a bra, and i loved that freedom. they didn't bounce around ever. i always thought they were "Too small" but i really miss them.

random-my boy was watching this soft core porn the other night and the woman was completely flat. she had big sticky outie nipples, but really no boobs to speak of. i was asking him what he thought- he thought it was great/fine. i was kinda surprised, cause he seems to like boobs, but i guess he really doesn't care at all what size they are.

also, i thought it was really cool that there was this totally natural small breasted woman in a porno (not that i like porn, but still). it really WAS more sexy than seeing fake looking implants, although it was kinda shocking, cause i never see small breasted women being shown as that sexy.....

oh, and ginger kitty-if you like the bra then keep it. sometimes it's fun to have bras that make you look big, some shirts might look extra awesome with that bra....

also,i bet they don't look that big to other people, but you are probably more aware of it.
anna k
QUOTE
also, i thought it was really cool that there was this totally natural small breasted woman in a porno (not that i like porn, but still). it really WAS more sexy than seeing fake looking implants, although it was kinda shocking, cause i never see small breasted women being shown as that sexy.....


I know what you mean. I was looking at a recent book of Playboy pictures featuring celebrities, and was surprised to see old photos from the 70's of Jane Birkin with her long hippie hair and tiny breasts, or Robin Givens in the 90's with tiny breasts and prominent nipples (that may have been enhanced through ice). The glossy, shaved-pube, giant-tittied pictures were cold-looking and not as sexy as the more natural pics of the women looking pretty and sexy just relaxing naked.
ginger_kitty
Annak, I completely agree! I hate the whole plastic looking turn that Playboy has taken. I love watching old movies and seeing a naked chick looking totally natural with really nice small boobs.
EllaMinnowPea
QUOTE(ginger_kitty @ Dec 18 2006, 03:51 PM) *

I love my small boobs, so I am worried the push up will make me look like I am trying to hide the fact my boobs are small. But part me really likes the bra and makes me feel sexy.


Wear whatever makes you feel good about yourself, darlin'! It's nice to have a good push-up when you want the extra - pardon the pun - boost, but that doesn't have to discount your small boob pride.
karategrrl
[Hey ginger kitty, what kind of bra is that? Just curious. Usually bras in small sizes have tons of paddng. Makes me nuts. I like a little enhancement with some clothing, but never the "bean bag" look. wink.gif

And yeah, you know, I have to SO agree with you ladies on the natural vs. plastic "beauty" thing. What the hell has happened to our standards of beauty? I totally hope one day there is a backlash against breast augmentation. But for now, I'd like to choke the man (men?) who invented implants. dry.gif I don't know who it was, but I'm damn sure it was NOT a woman!

Does anyone remember the REAL Bettie Page? If you see her real, original topless pictures, she was like a large A or small B--very natural, quite beautiful, and she even had <gasp> some flesh on her hips and thighs! Modern "art versions" of her that you see have made the thighs smaller and boobs all plastic-looking, but as she really was, she was naturally beautiful and sexy!
hiddenpoet
QUOTE
Was it upbringing? Attitudes in the area where you grew up? Experiences you've had? Do tell!!!


sorry it took me so long to reply karategrrl. in middle and some of high school i had terrible self esteem and thought if i had bigger breasts then guys would pay attention to me. but after my pregnancy and going through failed lactation i just didnt care what the hell guys thought about anymore. i had a child to raise.

i remember Bettie Page! there was a spread in playboy with Ditta Von Teese posing as Page and then snapshots of Page next to her. Ditta may have great breats but Page had a killer body all over.
ginger_kitty
karategrrl, the push up was just Vassarette that I picked up at Target. Really affordable like $10, I can't believe how comfy it ended up being. I've gotten used to it now, and does feel sexy!



karategrrl
QUOTE(ginger_kitty @ Jan 4 2007, 12:53 AM) *

karategrrl, the push up was just Vassarette that I picked up at Target. Really affordable like $10, I can't believe how comfy it ended up being. I've gotten used to it now, and does feel sexy!


Thanks! Funny (and refreshing) how sometimes the cheaper stuff is just fine. I love cute, sexy stuff as much as anyone, but I can't see spending $50. and up on a bra. Maybe those with large boobs who need the support and all do get something for that kind of moulah, but I don't think we smallies do.

I just had a stellar idea! Buy cheap, plain bras and decorate with lace or sparkles or cute shit like that. smile.gif I can sew a little.

wub.gif wub.gif wub.gif wub.gif

I LOVE all you petite-breasted hotties out there!!!!! I don't know any of you personally, but knowing you are out there makes me feel like part of a sistah-hood!

MWAH!!!
karategrrl
Hey all, Just wanted to share. www.honeydewintimates.com has cute bras for small boobs, at good prices.

Also www.marygreen.com, though I think someone else already mentioned that site. Both are based in CA, USA.

Happy shopping!
Kitty06
Hi!

I'm posting here cos last time I did everyone was so friendly and great help smile.gif I haven't posted in aaages because I've been horribly busy with school and whatnot.

I wanted to know what you think influences people most when they guess your age? I'm starting to get really annoyed, as I'm approaching 18 and at least four people in the last sixth months or so have guessed my age at 13/14! It's all very well to say that when I'm older I'll be glad to look younger but the fact is that's a way off!

Anyway, hello again everyone smile.gif

Kittyx
karategrrl
QUOTE(Kitty06 @ Feb 6 2007, 04:56 PM) *

I wanted to know what you think influences people most when they guess your age? I'm starting to get really annoyed, as I'm approaching 18 and at least four people in the last sixth months or so have guessed my age at 13/14! It's all very well to say that when I'm older I'll be glad to look younger but the fact is that's a way off!


Hi Kitty!

Well, first off, I can understand wanting to look your age. I, too, have always looked young for my age. I remember being in my 20's and folks asking where I went to high school. dry.gif Now that I am older (38), I do get a cheap thrill when I tell people my age (38) and their jaws drop. Tee hee... I'm usually pegged for 26-30.

I'd take a guess and say that a lot of factors influence people's perceptions, including how you act, dress, wear your hair, etc. Also I have to say that having a small chest DOES seem to make one look younger. Older women tend to have boobs that are saggy. We small-boobed wonders will always have youthful, gravity-defying chests. biggrin.gif

When I was younger, I started a new career and wanted to look older and therefore be taken more seriously. I deliberately chopped my long hair & nails short, wore glasses and dressed more conservatively. It did work. That may be drastic, but my point is, you can do things to your appearance to influence how others perceive you, if you wish.

You might consult some books on fashion/image to learn ways to "grow up" your look, if you think that is the issue. Good luck and keep us posted!
ginger_kitty
karategrrl, took the words out of my mouth as far as people assupmtions reagarding age.

I have always been mistaken as younger than I am, which used to bother me when I was younger. But now I realize, it probably means I am going to ease into my elder years gracefully, so I am take it much better. And thank god being small boobied means have super saggy breasts later on. wink.gif
Kitty06
Thanks, I guess the fact I don't bother with my hair/make up much is probably the main thing, but I really can't be arsed with that for school! Hmm maybe I'll just buy a more padded bra...

Kxx
karategrrl
QUOTE(Kitty06 @ Feb 8 2007, 09:05 AM) *

Thanks, I guess the fact I don't bother with my hair/make up much is probably the main thing, but I really can't be arsed with that for school! Hmm maybe I'll just buy a more padded bra...

Kxx


You just be yourself, girl--however you are comfortable. Remember, too, that there are just a lot of people out there who are really bad at guessing ages! tongue.gif My experience is, the oldest people are the worst at guessing ages, I think because in their generation, young people "grew up" sooner (i.e., had kids, got married, left home at 17 to work full-time). Younger people today have more options, so if an older person looks at you and sees you living at home, in school, wearing jeans and being comfy with the hair and make-up, they may associate it with being a "carefree kid" with no responsibilities. Just a thought.

I know it can be so frustrating, but believe gingerkitty and me, you will grow into your young look and in time you will probably LOVE it! cool.gif
fantaz
Hello all!
I know exactually how you feel! People NEVER guess my age right! I am 21 now and people think I am like 17! People have always mistaken me for being younger than I am. It does tend to tick me off at times, because I will sometimes take it as people viewing me as being not as mature. However, my mom went through the same thing when she was younger, and now when people find out that she is 58, they freak out! They always think that she is about 45 years old! Also, she is small chested like me (like a small B/Big A), and says that her breasts look exactly the same as they did when she was young! Even though I am not so confident about my size, at least I have that to look forward to!

Oh, and a movie I like called "About Last Night..." features the un-enhanced Demi Moore, and although see is small chested, she looks so sexy in the movie! It made me too feel like a cute guy like that could find me as desirable as he did (Rob Lowe's character)! I wish more movies nowadays feature woman that look like that being portrayed as sexy!
knorl05
re: plastic playboy models. it will definitely pass.. it is just the latest beauty trend. unfortunately women have always taken drastic measures to be considered sexy and desirable.. plastic surgery is just on the rise due to the availability (and social acceptance) of the procedures. what i think is so damaging about the latest look of beauty, is that it further lends to objectification of women, by making them look like plastic blow up dolls. they appear to be cartoon characters, or air brushed renditions of the human form, rather than a woman with unique or individual beauty. their images are actually the result of the skilled craftsmanship of doctors and graphic designers, than that of the hands of their creator. and well.. that's just how it is. a man with his own mind will be the one to determine what he considers sexy in a woman. i guess what it ultimately comes down to is that each one of us decides where our priorities lie.
anonymoose96
"re: plastic playboy models. it will definitely pass.. it is just the latest beauty trend. unfortunately women have always taken drastic measures to be considered sexy and desirable.. plastic surgery is just on the rise due to the availability (and social acceptance) of the procedures. what i think is so damaging about the latest look of beauty, is that it further lends to objectification of women, by making them look like plastic blow up dolls. they appear to be cartoon characters, or air brushed renditions of the human form, rather than a woman with unique or individual beauty. their images are actually the result of the skilled craftsmanship of doctors and graphic designers, than that of the hands of their creator. and well.. that's just how it is. a man with his own mind will be the one to determine what he considers sexy in a woman. i guess what it ultimately comes down to is that each one of us decides where our priorities lie."

Amen to that Knorl! All of it! In reference to the playboy model look, it too shall pass. In the 1920's when the flapper look was in fashion small breasts were very desirable. more endowed women did what they could to strap the puppies down. It's really not all that different than what many women do now days, it's just at the opposite end of the spectrum is all.
knorl05
anonymoose: exactly. and during medieval times it was the corset, which would cause permanent structural damage to their bodies.

i think the new look is rather cold, and uninviting.. and visually it may be beautiful for a moment, but IMO it's just become too typical to be valuable. but you know, we're all different types of people who value different things.
stephanie_erin
for me, the whole playboy thing now is just unnatural and creepy looking. half those girls don't even have nipples any more, and if they do, as a female, you KNOW they were airbrushed.
but if you look at some of the old issues, the women aren't straddling horses naked with their fake breasts almost staring at you. the women are placed in more nautral, respectable places and look more beautiful than sexy.
i miss the old pin- ups and 20's flappers. i vote for those fads to come back.
anna k
I looked at pictures in a book about famous women in Playboy, and the recent pictures look so waxed and sexless and shiny, just terrible in comparison to the 70's pics of hairy women or small-breasted women looking comfortable and sensual. Jane Birkin and Robin Givens are examples of slim, small-breasted women who looked more natural and more sensual than the hyper-sexualized shots of Jaime Pressly (who I like, but not her picture) or Pamela Anderson.
edie52
Anna, I saw that book too- I was so psyched to see Jane Birkin with her tiny breasts (that quite resemble mine) looking so beautiful. I feel like that would never happen now- not in Playboy- though there are some actresses that are small-boobed, considered sexy, and have also done topless scenes- like Kate Hudson, Selma Blair, and Claire Danes come to mind.
knorl05
i think it's awful that the media has conditioned us to think that we CANT be sexy.. there is so much more to sex appeal than the size of a woman's breasts. sit down and rap with men for a bit, you'll find they find all sorts of things sexy about women. most men i've found dont care about all the silly details we concern ourselves with - they're just excited to get to see our boobs at all.
knorl05
here are examples of sexy women who are also sophisticated and intriguing.. katie west and josefine
girltrouble


then you won't mind it if i tell you to kiss my ass, pornbot. fuck you.
maddy29
QUOTE
they're just excited to get to see our boobs at all.



so true, so true!!!!!
dj-bizmonkey
hello ladies! i am brand new new to this whole web forum thing, but i stumbled across this thread in a desperate internet search to sooth my pain. the most disheartening part of my search was being warned by the computer beforehand that i was most likely going to turn up a bunch of porn sites. well, now that i've navigated through that quagmire to this, most positive of places, i want to express some anger that i feel you can all understand.

i am happy with my body, but it's the rest of the world (or the media or whatever else) that seems to have a problem with it. especially when you consider that in the 1980's, in an effort to push forward the clearance of silicone implants, the national association of american plastic surgeons actually classified having small breasts as a 'disease' and a 'deformity' in their official literature to the FDA. so gross, it makes me want to vomit.

so things are changing, kinda, and at least some attention is finally being paid to the booty once again, thank god. but in western culture, we still seem to be obsessed.

here's the thing that makes me angriest, it isn't the shallow ignorance of breast-fetish men or the plastic images of unachievable bodies on the sides of buses. it's the looks of pity and sadness that i get from other women whenever i talk about my breasts. this in particular, REALLY pisses me off. has this ever happened to you, ladies?

i was having a conversation about bras with some of my coworkers, talking about how i never wear one unless it's absolutely necessary. i find them uncomfortable and it isn't exactly like my breasts are flying all over the place, right? so she says to me, 'well, you know, if you've actually got boobs, you definetly want to wear a bra.' excuse me? do I not have breasts at all? are these not nipples under my shirt? they may not cast a shadow big enough to block out the sun, but there is at least some curvature there. i HATE that. it's not the first time some one has made a comment like that. just because they aren't enormous (or even average-size, like a b or a c cup) doesn't mean that they don't exist. ok, i know i'm getting bogged down in semantics here, but is it really that difficult to say something like, 'well, for women with larger breasts......'

anyone feelin' me out there?
Kitty06
You know what, I have found this! I had a conversation with a couple of friends once, along the lines of, "If you could have any physical feature of the other two friends, what would it be," initiated by a friend bustier than I. When it came to me, she was absolutely expecting a breast-related answer. I didn't indulge her as it wasn't how I felt at all anyway! I suddenly realised that, thinking about it, I wouldn't have swapped anything.

I honestly think it doesn't occur to some large chested women that we may not be cases for pity!

Anyway, sorry for ranting..

k06

fantaz
I just watched this show on E about celebrities and plastic surgery. even though the people on the show were saying how great breast implants looked, all I could think about was how beautiful the people looked before, and how horrific they look now. for example, everyone seems to think that pamela anderson looks great after plastic surgery. i feel that she is hard to look at because she looks scary to me. she was sooo gorgeous before too! then i started thinking to my self about all the celebrities i know have gotten this surgery done, and i cannot think of ONE case here i thought their breast implants looked good. fake boobs look absolutely disgusing! women always seem to want to go up like 3 cup sizes, and their boobs are all stretched out and don't have any natural shape to them. it literally looks like someone over inflated them to the point that they will bust at any time! why do people want to look like this? in no way is it pretty! who are we kidding ourselves? i would rather be flat then deformed! i'm sorry for this rant, but these people just scare me!

I wish woman would stop doing this to themselves! just love God and yourself as you are, and then you will not feel that you need any of this. if people tell you are flat and disgusting, should you really take them seriously? we are not alone in our insecurity, and neither are they (even if they try and pretend that they think they are perfect). God did NOT mess up when he made you. if you were meant to look different, he would have made you look that way!
just because you may be flat chested/overweight/lack a booty/what have you, does NOT make you unworthy of love! I can guarentee you that you are loved for the REAL you, even if you may not feel it sometimes.

I am sorry if I come across judgemental, that is not my intention! i just wish that this OBSESSION would just die!
dj-bizmonkey
On the one hand, I agree with fantaz. I had a friend in middle school who's mother died after a botched liposuction. You have to consider, are you really willing to die for your own vanity. The breast obsession is a trend and like any trend, it wil fade away eventually and we'll pick something else to be obsessed with. Whether or not that will happen within our lifetime, remains to be seen. However, I don't want to demonize women who opt for surgery. It isn't something I would ever do, but I can't tell some one else what they can or can't do with their body. For me, the occasional anguish or encounter with an unenlightened person who is critical of my small breasts, is worth the small amount of pain it may cause in comparison to the years of pain and suffering, both emotional and physical that can arise from having that kind of surgery. Two website's y'all should visit that I've found helpful, www.siliconeholocaust.org and www.007b.com. Lot's of good information and support for women with breasts of all shapes and sizes.

fantaz, you are dead on, however, when you say that people love you for the real you. whoever you're dating, be they man or woman, they're going to fantasize about other people, be they salma hayek or keira knightley or denzel washington. but it's just that, a fantasy! at the end of the day, who are they with? you, of course! and they are with you because they want to be, because they love you, inside and out. maybe they don't think your body is perfect, but have you ever thought anyone that you dated was absolutely perfect either? let's start being realistic about one another and stop holding ourselves and others to unimaginable standards of beauty.
anna k
QUOTE
for example, everyone seems to think that pamela anderson looks great after plastic surgery. i feel that she is hard to look at because she looks scary to me. she was sooo gorgeous before too!


Yes, she looked so sweet and pretty and innocent, I could see how alpha males like Bret and Tommy and Scott would fall for her.
knorl05
dj biz: yep. ignorance. it's disgusting how women/society think we are less advantaged or that our lives arent as fulfilling. that just goes to show their level of intelligence.. i mean really, if a person thinks that the quality of an individual's life has anything to do with one aspect of whom they are, they are sadly misinformed. it's hard to deal with people who have limited ideas about life across the board.. i'm just finally coming to terms with it. they are gonna be stupid, that's just how it is. the only thing i must do is not allow it to affect my self worth or self perception. "i am beautiful no matter what they say"
karategrrl
Hi, all you small-breasted hotties!

I don't know if there's already a link to this somewhere, but this personal story affirms just how and why implants are so disgusting:

http://www.kariwuhrer.net/glamourmag.html

I did my own research awhile back about implants. I had to decide once and for all whether or not I would not go down that road. Basically, what I found is, once you have breast augmentation surgery, you are not "set for life." Even if everything goes perfectly, it will be only the first in at least a few surgeries:

-If anything goes wrong with the initial procedure, you must have it corrected (more surgery/surgeries).
-If you need the implant size adjusted, you will need another surgery (it is pretty common to have to adjust the size until the doc "gets it right.")
-You will eventually have to have your implants replaced; average lifespan is around 8-10 years, I believe (another surgery!)
-If your implants are recalled, they will need to be replaced (another surgery)
-If you decide you don't want them anymore, they have to be removed through--yes, folks--another surgery. (Add a "lift" procedure to the removal procedure to compensate for the now-stretched breast skin). If you have them removed, you will end up smaller than before because the now-scarred natural breast tissue must also be removed.

And...even the most "successful" surgery will leave the skin scarred permanently. More surgeries=more scarring. Ick.

Moral of the story: implants are gross, a disgrace to our society and demeaning to women. I am not against them if it is to, say, replace breast(s) lost to cancer, and I am not against someone getting a lift if breastfeeding has made their boobs go so far down south they are hitting the poor woman's knees. wink.gif Such procedures aim to RESTORE what naturally existed before. It's the idea of: 1) "fixing" the small-busted and 2) large, fake breasts being established as "the norm" that irritates the crap out of me.

QUOTE
i am happy with my body, but it's the rest of the world (or the media or whatever else) that seems to have a problem with it.


Well said, DJ bizmonkey!

~Karategrr
dj-bizmonkey
Wow. Thanks for posting that link, karategrrl, seriously. What an incredibly sad story. I still can't get over how the music producer said he liked it when you could see a woman's breasts from the front. Some women do look like that, naturally, and more power to them. They've been blessed by genetics or god or whatever. But I totally aggree with what you said about not wanting huge, unatural implant breasts to be the norm. Whatever happened to variety? Isn't that supposed to be the spice of life? Why would we want all women on the planet to look exactly the same, like an army of Stepford wives. That, to me, is absolutely terrifying. I had toyed with the idea of surgery in the past, but what bothered me most was the fact that I would be undergoing a potentially life-threatening procedure just to please other people. I also didn't want to have to explain myself, justify my actions. I tried to put myself in the position of my friends and family, because I was sure they would want to know why. I couldn't come up with an honest, satisfactory answer for anyone. That decided it for me. If you can't come up with a truly good reason for putting yourself through surgery, then you probably shouldn't be doing it. I think it's sick that parents offer their daughters implants as graduation presents or even for girls as young as 16. These girls aren't even done developing yet! What kind of message are you sending to your daughter when you offer her plastic surgery. 'Well, honey, we really love you, but we'd love you even more if you looked like this.' Please. It is a temporary, superficial solution to a much more deeply rooted problem. We can't expect to change how the world views us as individuals because of our bodies. What we can change is how that opinion affects us. The kind of people who would only be attracted to you based on one body part aren't the kind of people you'd want to get involved with in the first place, so why agonize about trying to please them?

I can't remember the name of this comedian, but he told a joke that stuck with me. He said, 'I love plastic surgery, because it allows people to show on the outside, exactly what they're made of on the inside, plastic.'
knorl05
as we were watching porn last night, we all agreed that the porn star would be so much more attractive if she didnt have those unnatural looking orbs chillin on her chest. dude said "implants are so unnecessary".. oh yeah that's why i keep him around. smile.gif ok, one of the reasons, not The reason. ha

ps. good quote dj biz. i think there are plastic people for plastic people.. i prefer those who are more real and i know they value that in me as well.
anna k
Thank you for posting that story. I used to think of Kari as a ditz, but she sounded so sweet and genuine in that piece.

I've also heard of Nicole Eggert from Baywatch removing her implants after they made her sick.

I'm a large-breasted girl, and sometimes I wish they could shrink so I didn't have to wear a bra all the time or seem freakishly large. But I've had big breasts since I was 13 and reducing them would feel like I was losing a limb, like I was amputating the size and not being used to a C or B size. I was surprised to hear of some famous women who had breast reduction surgery as teens, while they were still growing (Soleil Moon Frye, Jordan Ladd, Drew Barrymore), but two of them are short and maybe their chest size overwhelmed them.
dj-bizmonkey
anna k- i think getting a breast reduction is most often, completely different from having breast implants. granted, there are probably some large breasted women out there who want to get reductions for pure vanity, but most of the women i know who have done it, did it because they were uncomfortable physically.my best friend had a reduction and said the thing she was looking forward to most was having people look her in the eye instead of straight at her chest. she's also a big time runner and was tired off the constant back pain. i cannot even imagine what it must be like to try and go running with even just a c-cup, let alone d's or e's! it's funny, we've always been obsessed with each others breasts. she always said she wanted some like mine and vice versa. i guess the grass is always greener.... still, more power to you for loving your body the way it is, and as long as you are comfortable and happy, there is no reason to go under the knife. being on either side of the extreme (large or small) can be difficult when we're all expected to fit into this cookie cutter mold of the perfect woman. thanks for posting in here too, i know it's helpful for me to hear it from the other side.
oceangirl
QUOTE(dj-bizmonkey @ Apr 8 2007, 07:01 PM) *
The kind of people who would only be attracted to you based on one body part aren't the kind of people you'd want to get involved with in the first place, so why agonize about trying to please them?


Very well said I have heard that you can sometimes lose sensation in your breasts with implants. So what you might be left with is a guy who loves you for your fake breasts - the ones that can no longer even provide you with sexual pleasure. You become a total object. That is disturbing to me.

I know some people say "to each their own" and I agree for the most part but breast implants can cause such horrible health problems. To put it bluntly that is a burden on the health system/society. I also have read in numberous places that women with breast implants are more likely to commit suicide.
knorl05
oceangirl: i've heard that statistic too.. but i think it has more to do with the mental stability of the woman pre-op. i think the only correlation between suicide and breast implants would be that plastic surgery of any type for cosmetic purposes is indicative of a low self esteem. i realize that's a bold statement to make, and that not everyone will agree with me. i further realize that some people have cosmetic surgery performed on them for career purposes.. but i think your average, run of the mill individual is trying to alter their Self in a very fundamental sense. i think that society and the media perpetuate the misconception that if you change your body you will change your outlook on life, and that's simply not true. if a woman goes into surgery thinking that boobs will make her happy or make her love herself, she is setting herself up for failure because then she will be less likely to pursue other options after the surgery. as though, if she feels her boobs are the source of her self loathing, and then she gets boobs and she's still miserable, i think she will feel even more hopeless than before the surgery.. hence, the suicide statistic.
lapis
Hi, I have really teeny breasts and am going to be a voice of dissent here for a second. Basically, I think in some cases certainly women get implants out of societal pressures and low self esteem and a general dissatisfaction with their lives. But I know people with implants, nose jobs, ect. who are really secure and confident because that surgery was what they wanted to fulfill an image of themselves--but their surgeries stopped there. For me, for example, laser hair removal was the difference between my feeling self-hatred and completely sexy, not because of a societal ideal but because of a sense of my own desire for my body's presentation. I don't plan on further modifications--this was just the hangup that was keeping me from feeling comfortable. It seems like making that decision depends on where the desire comes from, and I truly believe it can come from a person's will aside from societal pressures. Another way to look at it may be just as the cultural aesthetic of body modification today, like stretched ear lobes--couldn't it be a kind of rite of passage embraced by some women, or a sacrifice to an ideal, like wearing a corset? I feel like I personally don't want to villify people for getting implants if they find them beautiful--or consider them victims of cultural values or low self-esteem, but I hope there can always be space for other models of beauty--and there are many beautiful famous people who don't adhere to that body type. I struggled with wearing a padded bra for years, wanting to be real, but have no qualms wearing make-up or shaving or wearing clothes, and now see implants as a chosen adornment, maybe even an homage to a feminine ideal. I don't think of padded bras or implants as any kind of deception or selling out, but as a modification or a kind of self-becoming. Some people find self-acceptance therapeutic, and some find modification therapeutic--and I believe there should be space in society for accepting both types of action as a kind of coming into oneself. Hell, I think some people would choose to have blue skin if it were possible--and I would totally shake their hands if that's what they want. Has anyone seen the picture in the old Our Bodies, Ourselves of the woman who's had one breast removed and covered the scar with a huge tattoo? For some people, changing their bodies is a powerful choice--and implants could be empowering for some people. It's risky and takes courage. Anyway, small breasts are really hot, too. (I felt so strong and proud yesterday when the midwife told me my teeny breasts will be great for breastfeeding!)
oceangirl
Hey guys. Yeah that stat about suicide makes sense. I wasn't suggesting that breast implants themselves would make someone suicidal.

I guess I don't really look at it as an "empowerment issue" or any of that but as a health issue. Breast implants can make you very sick. You won't feel very empowered or feel beautiful if your body is toxic and you're very ill. What I don't understand is why some women get so sick from them and others don't get sick.
dj-bizmonkey
lapis- you make alot of excellent points and i had never really thought about comparing getting implants to getting a tatoo or stretching out your earlobes. i think every person on this planet should have to choice to modify their body in whatever way they see fit. but i don't like the notion of paying homage to the 'feminine ideal.' the essence of femininity has nothing to do with the size, shape and form of our breasts, or any other part of our body for that matter.

i think you are completely right, however, when you say that perfectly confident, sound of mind people will decide to have this surgery. yet i see a big difference in some one who say (like that guy on the national geographic channel's show 'taboo) decide to get horn implants in their forehead and their tongue split so that they look like a lizard, and some one who get's implants. i think the one is searching for a way to stand out and be completely different, while the latter is looking for acceptance, a way to fit into the mold that they themselves, or society creates. in the end, we should all be accepting and celebrating each other's differences, and that most certainly includes women and men who choose to have plastic surgery.

that being said, oceangirl has a good point, implants make a lot of women very sick and they were thrust upon the market without any real FDA testing. And karategrrl also brought up that it isn't just a one-time gig you're signing up for, it's a commitment to go back under the knife again and again. as for laser hair-removal, i don't even put it in the same category (but maybe i should, you've definetly got me thinking.....), and if i could afford it, i'd probably do it to. maybe it's because society tells me i'm not supposed to be hairy, or maybe i just like i idea of never having to shave again and enjoy the feeling of my hairless underarms. anyway, babbling here, i guess i'm actually kind of jealous of that procedure, i definetly can't afford it.

in the end, people should have the choice, but there should be alot more information available about the risks involved.
lapis
dj-bizmonkey,
Glad I could twist things around a bit--it seems like a rich issue to me. Ok, I agree that it's dangerous--a dangerous sacrifice, but so is scarification, circumcision, female circumcision, etc. I actually do think that big fake boobs say something about femininity--breasts are iconic--we are 'mammals' for our mammary glands and mothers are 'mamas.' Anyway, maybe this is too broad of a reading but if I were an anthropologist from outer space doing a reading of humankind over time, I would totally draw a connection between breast implants and prehistoric fertility goddess figures as both idealizations of kinds of femininity. Like lots of body ideals over time, I think the thing that goes under-discussed is what big fake boobs are a reaction to. One could argue that they say something about an anxiety about fertility. Is it a coincidence that fertility's dropping where implants are gaining the most popularity? Again, maybe this is too sweeping, but I think not. I think we might be so used to fabricating and synthesizing health and ideals and images of health that implants are a weak gesture to a kind of femininity that we are concerned about. People get them in countries where women work and don't always have kids, where men are concerned about ladies taking over the workforce--maybe implants are a good distraction, a smokescreen for women taking over and a way for women to manipulate biologically-driven ideals of fertility while they move ahead in other aspects of life. Just some possibilities. But if you look at impoverished places, the body ideal has historically been one of heartiness, tans among people who worked inside, etc. So what could fake boobs say about where we are? And how could women utilize them to get ahead in society somehow? 'Sorry I took your job, baby, come give mamma a hug'...Perhaps as we move toward women gaining power in society and more blurred gender lines, some people cling to fear of losing sexual differences--and implants soothe that fear by reinforcing and hyperbolizing that difference...

Also, I am not so sure that all fake breasts are about acceptance--there's such a huge range--I mean, does anyone get less than a C? Sometimes, I think it is about our culture of excess, with women ordering up biggie-sized titties with those fries, that we are turning our bodies into something like the kinds of commodities we covet--the suv's of the chest. Dunno. But I do think it can be an empowering, though risky, choice. A friend of mine's mother is in her late 40s and decided she was tired of being flat-chested. She got a boob job--her hubby could care less. Most people don't even notice because it's that subtle, but it makes her feel sexy--it's kind of her secret.
dj-bizmonkey
hey hey, didn't mean to totally drop out of this discussion, i've just been swamped at work, 13hour days beginning at 3:45am and going until 6:30pm, the life of the field biologist.

BUT, wandering around in the forest gives me lots of time to think. The idea that our obsession with breasts is somehow linked to a rise in infertility (or simply smaller families with women waiting longer and longer to procreate) is absolutely fascinating. I don't know that I necessarily agree offhand, because I have my own ideas about why we're obsessed. Still, what an amazing idea for a sociological study, especially in America. I would read the results of anything like that with great interest.

Yes and yes, having a plastic surgery of any kind can be empowering and positive experience as long as the person going into has the right mindset, you've got me sold, at least most of the way on that. I don't feel I need to add any more qualifiers here, because I've already addressed my concerns about surgery in general.

So why do I think we're obsessed with breasts here (i mean in the USA, i can't speak for anywhere else)? I think it has to do with the fact that we don't see breasts out, every day, performing their PRIMARY, natural function. I watched a newscast about a nurse-in awhile ago after that woman was kicked off the plane for refusing to cover up while she breastfed. The camera went around and asked bystanders what they thought about the whole issue. A man actually compared breastfeeding to urination!!! He said it was something that should be taking place in the bathroom. I mean, come on! Would you compare taking a bite out of a hamburger to taking a whiz? Two totally different things. So why should babies be forced to eat where people shit? It's absolutely ridiculous. Breasts are completely sexualized and people forget what their actual purpose is. Breasts are definetly sexual too, big time, I would never dare to say that they aren't, but people see them as serving only at purpose. Therefore they are taboo, they should be covered up, and we are curious and obsessed and yes, in America, we say the bigger the better about almost everything. But travel to Mali or New Guinea or the Amazon basin, where women are uncovered all the time and get a read for how sexual or taboo they think breasts are. Because in the US they are taboo, because they are sexy, because they are hidden, we love them. In Mali, for example, men go crazy for women's thighs, because while they often go topless, it is considered indecent to show you thighs in many parts of the country. So it's whatever the culture picks. David Buss, an evolutionary psychologist did a study on levels of sexual attractiveness that visited every continent (except antarctica, duh), 47 countries in total. The only universal features of attractiveness in women were waist to hip ratio and facial symmetry, both of which are phenotypic signals to fertility and health. Every thing else varied drastically, be it breasts, thighs, eyes, feet, whatever, it was almost completely dictated by the culture. An interesting side note on that study, he also showed a card with different sillouhettes of women to men and to women and asked them to pick which one they thought was ideal. Even in countries where starvation is a dark reality, the women consistently picked a sillouhette that was one or two sizes slimmer/smaller than what the men picked as their ideal. The study didn't adress the homosexual population, but since David Buss studies evolutionary psychology, he works off of theories of sexual selection, which until very recently, have largely ignored the role of homosexuality in the evolution of the human race and psyche.

Whew! Sorry, really long post and I am about to babble some more. This is such a rich issue, and I'm really enjoying hearing your (lapis) and everyone else out there's opinion. It's got the gears turning in the old noggin.

As to the issue of fertility symbols, in Africa, yes, images of the fertility goddesses (umm, sp?) often have large or exaggerated breasts because the majority of women of African descent have, on average, larger breasts than people with different genetic background. But if you look at fertility statues, idols, paintings etc. from indigenous people in central and south america, the breasts are usually very small or almost nonexistant, the focus is on the large hips (there's that waist to hip ratio thing again). The reason being, most indigenous women from the americas tend to be smaller breasted.

(medically speaking there is absolutely zero link between fertility and breast size, or between the latter and the ability to breastfeed, except in the case of some genetic conditions that cause malformation or total lack of breast tissue and also interfere with the mammary glands themselves, but that's a whole other sack of potatoes)
knorl05
hey ladies. i love your theories.. it is obvious there are many angles of which to look at society's fascination with breasts. applying ockham's razor to this discussion, we could speculate that men may admire women's breasts simply because they are a prominent part of the woman's body, and women may be obsessed with their breasts because they think that's what men want. a man who has a woman with big breasts feels more masculine (superior), and a woman having big breasts feels more feminine (superior). i feel what motivates these beliefs is the act of procreation and our fundamental need to continue on as a species.

i too feel these particular beliefs are a direct result of our culture (in america specifically) and that typically those who submit to this ideal, by ignoring all other qualities and/or characteristics of the individual, are not autonomous people.
dj-bizmonkey
ok, getting away from our psychological theories for a second and back to more practical applications:

I am totally pear-shaped, 34a, tiny waist and callipygean on the lower half. I've been trying to find some cute bra and panty sets online, to no avail. It seems that most the sites dedicated to smaller size bras are for petite women, and I am far from it. Anybody know a good website where you can mix different size bras and undies that still match in style and color?

I also tried the lulalu site, but the stuff on there is too expensive for a starving grad student like many, any suggestions for a good deal?

Thanks ladies, for the support and the intellectual stimulation! This is the only forum of it's kind (as far as I can tell) and I'm so glad it exists! Just knowing there are other women out there in the world considering this issue and dealing with the stress is enough to boost my own confidence.
knorl05
QUOTE
Just knowing there are other women out there in the world considering this issue and dealing with the stress is enough to boost my own confidence.


ugh. yes. my experience with the boob issue is this. women have been more judgmental of my tiny breasts than men. i have never had a guy (who actually cared about me) care that my boobs are small. ever. i used to seriously contemplate getting my tits done. i also used to fantasize about being a stripper. during that time my breasts were a MUCH bigger issue because i was young and impressionable and didnt have a very healthy self image. now that i'm older (late twenties) i've been around the block so many times that i know small breasts only count in that world around those people. the people i care to interact with are more interested in what i have to say than whether or not i fit some idealized standard of beauty. because you know what, they arent perfect either. and that's the real beauty of being a real person, to be able to acknowledge and accept yourself as you are. no one with any sense says that beauty or sex appeal is determined solely by the size of a woman's breasts. personally i find sexuality to much hotter than sexiness and i know there are tons of real men who would agree with me.
dj-bizmonkey
oh GOD, i feel ya knorl. i had posted in this thread earlier about the woman who made the comment to me, 'well, if you've got boobs....' AARGH! I have breasts, damn it! They're just small, that's all! Kitty06 also made the comment about her friend who totally expected her to want to change her breast size. I feel so much more judgement from women and I CANNOT stand the looks of pity I get sometimes when having this discussion with a woman with larger breasts. we've got to overcome that inborn cognitive pathway that causes us to want to compete with one another.

That being said, the sick irony of all this is that if you pop in on the large breast support group thread you will find some women there that are longing for small (or at the very least, smaller) breasts. the grass is always greener. i saw a post in there about a reality show about women with very large breasts. the one woman was in the fashion industry and she 'was struggling in a world where she believed only small breasts could ever be considered attractive.' i mean, jesus, are we every satisfied on either side of the coin?

for me, not only is it a source of strength to know that there are other small breasted women out there, struggling to accept themselves in this culture (or even just fit into a shirt they want), just like me, but also that there are large breasted women out there, struggling to accept themselves in this culture (or even just fit into a shirt they want), just like me. on the surface, the reasons may appear different, but at the core, they are the same. i garner strength from all sides of the fence.

large, small, medium, nonexistent, saggy, disproportionate, what does it all matter in the end? you are absolutely right, knorl, the kind of people that you want to associate with are far more interested in what comes out of your mouth, rather than what's growing off of your chest, or any other part of your body for that matter. i completely agree with you, real beauty is flawed. i mean, have you ever met some one that you thought was absolutely perfect inside and out? i don't think that person exists. but you find people who's "flaws" become beautiful and attractive to you. that is the process of falling in love or forming a genuine friendship.

DessieAnn
[font="Book Antiqua"][/font][size="2"][/size][color="#800080"][/color]
QUOTE(knorl05 @ Apr 19 2007, 01:25 AM) *
ugh. yes. my experience with the boob issue is this. women have been more judgmental of my tiny breasts than men. i have never had a guy (who actually cared about me) care that my boobs are small. ever. i used to seriously contemplate getting my tits done. i also used to fantasize about being a stripper. during that time my breasts were a MUCH bigger issue because i was young and impressionable and didnt have a very healthy self image. now that i'm older (late twenties) i've been around the block so many times that i know small breasts only count in that world around those people. the people i care to interact with are more interested in what i have to say than whether or not i fit some idealized standard of beauty. because you know what, they arent perfect either. and that's the real beauty of being a real person, to be able to acknowledge and accept yourself as you are. no one with any sense says that beauty or sex appeal is determined solely by the size of a woman's breasts. personally i find sexuality to much hotter than sexiness and i know there are tons of real men who would agree with me.

My Goodness, ladies, I'm so happy I found you all. At one of the lowest points of my life, and thinking I was so alone in the world with my feelings, I found you one a flook. I'm so greatful to read your posts, hear your feelings, see how you have learned to accept your breasts as they are, like yourselves, etc. I really need your help. Anyone out there, who wants to hear my story, which I'm sure has been told a million times or heard a millions times by all women, anyone out there that can give me a boost and a kick in the butt to get out of my depression over being small breasted, please, please write to me. I am struggling and hurting. I'd appreciate anyone and everyone who wants to write and offer more feedback. What I am reading here has been so extremely helpful. I can never, ever have implant surgery. I'm an ovarian cancer survivor. Very high risk for Breast Cancer, was just genetically tested, have to be monitored every six months - and all of my best girl friends who were built like me, small busted - all in mid 40's went and got boob jobs the same week I was hearing (and they knew it) that I could never, ever do this - it would be a death sentence. My husband - who is a wonderful man and true saint has been trying so hard to help me with my feelings - to no avail. I feel unattractive - so un-womanly - and now I can not join the ranks of larger breasted women - as I had always hoped. I need to learn to accept this, learn to like myself. Accept that this is ok....etc. Hearing what you all have to say is helping me. I'm serious....10 of my best girlfriends, I thought -instead of visiting me in the hospital - all went from implant surgery together. Including my son's finance' - I'm surrounded and I'm really down right depressed! HELP!
knorl05
biz: i like the point you made that on the surface, the reasons may appear different, but at the core, they are the same. we all struggle with something, and it is refreshing when people admit to these hardships rather than pretend they are perfect and all is fabu. because i think that through eachother's strength, we inspire one other to find our own.

what is that about?? the way women react to our chest size? it's like, dont feel sorry for me, you dont know me. you are not better than me simply because you wear a bigger bra size. and that's if they're being nice by only 'feeling sorry for' me, instead of snickering about it or pointing it out to any guy that happens to find me attractive (granted this was during high school/college years, but still). i just think maybe women use it as a way to feel superior over other women.. and i've always been thin, so maybe it's in some way their retaliation against the thin ideal? because most women, no matter how strong, seem to struggle with comparing their unique beauty against the media's and society's image of what is supposed to be most appealing. it's like we ourselves are the fad, we manipulate our bodies to fit the latest trends and fashions and that just doesnt seem right to me. it's not just about the clothes, which is a huge part of it, but it's the very fiber of our being that we're trying to alter. i think to some degree when we do this, we are contributing to the misconception that we are merely objects of attraction. maybe i'm taking it too seriously, maybe i'm opting out, but i've personally found i've become more happy with my life and myself once i stopped trying to live up to their standards. i'm never going to be that perfect woman that so many women spend thousands of dollars trying to be.. but i know that's not what i want anyway so it's ok. and the people i interact with see through all the bullshit too, so they dont care either. i keep stressing this because i've found it's important to surround ourselves with people who match or support our values and beliefs... because there is far too much to enjoy about life to waste our time or energy on things that dont really matter in the bigger picture.

DessieAnn: i'm glad you've found us. take a look around at all the boards, hopefully you can find some strength and solace through knowing you are not alone. feel free to contribute whatever you are comfortable to share.
DessieAnn
HELP! I'm new here, my name is DessieAnn. Anyone interested in finding out where I'm coming from, please read my personal profile - so I won't bore all of you to death!!! I am so depressed - I'm having trouble coming to terms with the words: No and Never, unless you want to die - on every being able to have implant surgery. I'm very small busted 34A and was never ok with that. I've been married for 25 years to a man who tells me everyday that I'm sexy - but I just can't seem to believe it. I'm struggling with depression - and so far nothing anyone says seems to easy my pain, burden and personal agony. I have had my spirits lifted by the reading here. Anyone willing and wanting to reach out to me to help....I'll welcome and assistance. I'm 45 years old, 5 foot 1 - weight 110 pounds. I have 8 kids (5 are adopted)....I should be happy to be alive right now, but all I can see is that all my friends, knowing I wanted to do have implant surgery - went and had their surgeries all at the same time, when I was in the hospital getting my devestating news. I'm as low as I've ever been. Again, I say - HELP!
This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.
Invision Power Board © 2001-2014 Invision Power Services, Inc.