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Aithinne
Sexual abuse will definitely contribute to the problems you're experiencing now. Counseling is your best friend. You shouldn't be ashamed to seek help no matter what the source of your insecurity is. It obviously affects your life greatly. Would you rather say that your anxiety over your small breasts is not important enough to get help? Would you rather live in fear and embarassment your whole life? Or, you could get some professional help who will give you the tools you need to break free of your self-imposed prison.

Culture is what it is. The collective CAN change the culture. But, as a part of the collective, you have to do your part. You have to stop buying into its BS and giving it fuel. You need to stop demonizing everything around you. Forget about the injustice of seeing breasts everywhere and not seeing male nudity. It's not IMPORTANT. And, may I remind you to remember that breasts are not only sexual objects and thinking so harms breast-feeding women everywhere.

Men are not horrible. They like the whole variety of breasts and don't lie to yourself and say that they only like the big ones. Did you read the comments below the lil diddies video that lightchested posted? They are ALL postitive words for small breasts. One man posted a comment on YOUR SIZE: "And as for the the real men of the world we love ALL breasts regardless of frontiers, size, colour, shape.... YAY for AA - Adorable Adornments". Read them every single day. Thinking all those men are lying or that it's some massive joke or conspiracy is just plain silly. I think you should also read this page and this page and take a look at all the positive words from men!

I admit, I've had my serious downs with thinking all men suck, they only want perfect barbies, blah blah blah. But then I snap out of it and slap myself upside the head for my stupidity.

Slap yourself upside the head. After all, you could've had a V8!! Lol....sorry really bad joke.
angie_21
QUOTE(buttercups @ Aug 12 2009, 08:31 AM) *
It's like a body part is missing. I definitely think I've had body dysmorphic disorder for many years due to my obsessing about this problem, but the main definition is worrying about a defect that is "slight or imagined" and I'm pretty sure my defect is real. Whenever I've talked to a bf about this before they say "no its all in your head" but how can it be? Is it all in my head that I can't fill out a bra?? Is it all in my head that my chest never developed?? I mean bra sizes don't lie and maybe I would have BDD if I was a nice full B cup and felt this way- but at a AA arent I a little justified to think that something is missing?


I haven't read anything else up to this point, and probably won't have time until later, but this just needs to be talked about. NO. No, you are not justified. Stop hurting yourself like that. Unless your band and boobie measurements are exactly the same you DO freakin have something there. It may not be what you want, but they are indeed breasts. You're beating yourself up about being "defective" when your body is 100% normal (again, maybe it's not what you want, but it's healthy, and it's even a common chest size - MANY OTHER PEOPLE ARE THE SAME SIZE AS YOU).

It's not your chest size that's all in your head, it's thinking that there's something wrong with your chest size that's all in your head.
angie_21
QUOTE(buttercups @ Aug 12 2009, 11:22 AM) *
If I had boobs and fit into this world would I hate it as much- honestly I doubt it. Every girl I know who has a chest can watch all those shows and porn and everything and they don't seem to shrivel up and die inside like I do. I wish I didn't feel these feelings towards men and I know its bad of me, but I can't help it.


Aithinne and strongirl say it pretty well perfectly, but here goes anyways.

Oh honey. Believe me, I have friends with big boobs who are simply terrified of the idea of porn, and are extremely threatened by it. The thing is, there will always be another person out there with bigger boobs, longer legs, a smaller waist, a cuter nose. We have to accept that. I mean, you think things are bad now, what are we going to do when we're gray-haired and wrinkly and saggy, and every 25 year old out there looks more "beautiful" than we do? Well, we're going to have to start valuing ourselves to reasons other than how we look, or like Aithinne said, we've doomed ourselves to a life of unhappiness. You have to realise, fully and completely, that you are not missing out on anything. While you are wondering what it's like to have big boobs, other girls are wondering how their life would have been different 30 pounds lighter or with a smaller nose, bluer eyes, a prettier smile, or any other thing out there. We are all only hurting ourselves this way, and the only thing holding you back from enjoying your youth and being sexy is yourself, your obsession, and your fear.

I don't know if you can beleive me, but I used to have a lot of the characteristics lightchested mentioned of BDD. I spent a lot of time worrying about my boobs. I felt like I wasn't sexy, wasn't good enough, couldn't wear certain clothes, I measured them every day to see if they would grow. And I did get over it. But it wasn't magic. It took strength in the face of the constant barrage of advertising and asshole young men, and it took my accepting myself for who I am. You have to remind yourself about all of these things. You have to be strong enough that these things that bug you, can just roll off your back instead. It takes time, and can't happen overnight, but you really have to stop wishing for an answer and take charge of you own life & body, and take responsibility for your own hurtful thoughts.

It is still a man's world. It sucks sometimes, and you don't have to feel bad for being resentful about it. Any woman who thinks she doesn't have a reason to be resentful, has her head up her own butt. The thing is, the way to get along in a man's world without succumbing to it, is to be yourself. The sterotype of what a woman is supposed to be is the victim and the opressed figure in the man's world. Do you really want to be "womanly" in that way? Having bigger boobs just so you can feel like you can fit more smoothly into the stereotype of the hottie/supportive girlfriend/obedient housewife/loving martyred mother, won't make you happier. The more you fit the stereotype, the easier it is to fall into being opressed and treated like an object. And being treated like an object, is what allows us to judge ourselves based on our appearance in the first place. Don't wish men were treated as much like objects as women, wish that people would stop allowing themselves to be commodified and commercialized, and that they would treat themselves and eachother like human beings instead.
strongirl
I have to say I am absolutely blown away by the wisdom, caring, and insight of the women in this thread. You all (including you, Buttercups - you are struggling so hard and so valiently) restore my faith in humankind.

Counseling can be very helpful, Buttercups, but the advice you just got from Aithinne, Lightchested, and Angie_21 is, in my opinion, more thoughtful, deeper, and just better than what you'd get from most of the therapists out there. Re-read the responses you get in here over and over, rather than cycling on your own negative thoughts.

As for anger at men about porn and sexual oppression, I agree with Angie - to not have at least some of it you'd have to have your head up your own butt. But there's no reason to let it ruin your life. What happens outside your head is not within your control, but what happens inside your own head is totally under your control. And to get past these issues and be happy is the goal. I've always loved the saying:

"Living well is the best revenge."

karategrrl
buttercups, I've gone through my own feelings of bitterness and hatred toward men, men's magazines, and the male-oriented world we do live in. I once went on a huge quest to find a women's magazine--any one at all--that had nude or near-nude pics of men as a regular "feature" like they do in men's magazines--you know, the bikini layouts that are as "normal" as the financial advice or motorcycle maintenance columns. There aren't any! There's Playgirl, but that's clearly all nudity. (Hubby and I once had a major fight b/c he bought a copy of Easy Riders. I was appalled to have that trash in the house and doubly appalled when he said it was "no big deal" when I confronted him.)

Let me make this clear--I don't think it's fair, nor do I think the objectification of women or anyone is okay and acceptable, but I have come to realize men are so bombarded by women as "decoration" that it really isn't as big a deal to them as we may think. Men enjoy naked women and I think they're aware and appreciate of the fact that women's images are so available to them in so many venues. Yet I think on some level they're also aware that a lot of it is dumb and stereotypical, and even comical. Since they are easily aroused, on another level they may actually resent being manipulated by these images, and to some degree resent the women who do so. In groups, they do their chest-thumping and make a big deal over breasts and whatever else, but that may not be how any of them really feel; I think men generally aren't as honest with each other as women are, and it's a shame they feel they have to put up a front. That behavior is not okay, but I find it helps to look behind all the machismo at the causes, and it doesn't make me as mad.

I KNOW it is difficult--believe me--but do listen to the great advice and support everyone here is giving you. (And let me say, my admiration for all of you has grown by leaps and bounds for reaching out to our sis buttercups.) No, some things in this world aren't fair and you have no or little control over them. But take back your power over the things you DO have control over--one of them being your mental well-being.

I agree with whoever it was who promoted the healthy self-talk. Personally, this has been of HUGE benefit for me with some of life's difficulties and, to some extent, my booby esteem. I'm not talking about the "name it and claim it" philosophy, like "Think you have big breasts, and you will grow them," but rather replacing all those negative thoughts with positive ones.

Have you listened to any CDs or read anything by Louise Hay? I highly recommend it. She is, in my book, the Affirmation Queen. I recommend her "You Can Heal Your Life affirmation kit." Comes with an audio CD that is a great intro to positive affirmations. (No, this is not a paid endorsement.)
buttercups
You all have given me such great advice and I am going to try to do all of the things you have suggested. I know that many of you wonderful women have surpassed this issue and now accept yourselves and that does make me feel like I can do it too. Angie_21 it really made me feel almost reassured when you said that I am normal, that is something I've always found hard to believe. It's so silly but I've spent a lot of time thinking that I was born transgendered or something bc I've found my body to be so abnormal. I did need someone to tell me that I'm normal, even though you've never seen me, and it helps and I've been reminding myself of that since you said it. I had an appt with the OB/GYN today and for some reason I always expect her to say that something about me is abnormal, but she never has. It's stupid but I need to almost be convinced that I am 100% female and hearing you say that and then going to the doctor today and having her see nothing out of the ordinary for female anatomy makes me believe it more.

I've also never heard any other women talk about how male-dominated everything is today. It's great to feel that you all understand me and I know I have to stop letting the bullshit get to me before I go insane. I already lash out at my bf who is a great guy and he doesn't deserve it and I don't deserve him bc I take all my anger at the male species out on him. I have to learn to be as understanding as you Karategrrl and just realize that naked women are everywhere, men look at them, and maybe it doesn't mean anything. I wish I could turn my brain off sometimes before I let it get all angry feminist bitch. I'm going to look for those things by Louise Hay- I'll take all the help I can get and if you recommend it then I know its def worth a shot.

I want to get over this sooooooo bad. I want to be positive everyday and not cringe when my bf touches me or imagine what people are thinking about me in their heads. Theyre just stupid breasts! I just want to live my life and maybe take the self-hatred away in the process. You all change my thinking and give me something to look foward to when I can finally free myself from making a lack of tissue the center of my life.
angie_21
Hi Pip, not that your wonderfully enlightening comment deserves a response, but the whole point of this forum is to try to steer ourselves away from caring about what men think. When it comes to a topic about women's bodies, we can't help but end up talking about what men think once in a while, but that's actually the opposite of what we want. We want to focus on how we feel about our own bodies, and it's actually really sad and pathetic that it always veers back to what men think, because that's what we've been socialized to care about. If this furom were full of men giving us their opinions, we wouldn't reach those goals at all. Clearly you didn't even read everything posted here, or you would have figured it out for yourself.

Buttercups, there is nothing wrong with being a feminist. And if you've been abused in the past, it's no wonder you're angry. Just don't let that anger take over your life. Right now you are taking that anger and turning it back on yourself, because you don't have healthy way to get rid of it or deal with it. Instead of getting angry with destructive thought patterns, think constructively about how you can make your life better. Replace angry thoughts about men with positive thoughts about how you can feel powerful and in control of yourself and your sexuality. I was lucky enough to learn the power of positive affirmations before I even knew anything about psychology or pop psychology, or what it all means. But it has helped me get through a lot in life, and probably stopped me from becoming as certifable as most of my relatives. It is true, tell yourself something a thousand times, and you will believe it. You've told yourself you're "defective" for a long time, and you can't stop negative thought patterns overnight, but keep at it and slowly you will start thinking more positively without trying!

I actually have some pretty strong feelings about all the same things you are concerned about with feminism, I just don't usually discuss them with people I'm not very, very comfortable with, and I've learned to keep my thoughts & feelings under control the same way I keep my other liberal, leftist, atheist, and otherwise un-Christian views under control so as not to walk around offending people and alienating myself from others all day. There is a fine line between being passionate about topics that affect my life, and letting myself be angry and miserable about things I can't directly change. What I can do is try to encourage other women not to fall into the traps society sets for us, and don't let men off the hook when they are being chauvinistic, and as strongirl says, have the best "revenge" by living well and being happy. My (less polite) way of thinking about it is "don't let the bastards get you down" (thank you Kris Kristofferson for bringing this phrase to my attention!)

auralpoison
QUOTE(Pip @ Aug 13 2009, 05:34 PM) *
who is 'we'? is this a private group for 3 people?
It IS being discussed and solely through mind-reading attempts, which is silly.
the overwrought pompous reaction to other supportive contributors just looks obnoxious.


"Overwrought pompous . . . looks obnoxious". Pip meet kettle. Kettle meet Pip. Ya'll should get along famously.
lightchested
Buttercups,

Looks like if things don't work out with your boyfriend, Pip is available. On the off-chance that Pip is a female, she has obviously never walked a mile in our bra.

But enough of that.

When you went for therapy for BDD did you talk about your breasts specifically?
I sure did, and I told them (all) point blank "my boobs are wrecking my life".

how did you do it?
Well, I went to a few docs about it. I seem to recollect having to tell the receptionist-type person over the phone just to get the appointment for one or two of the places. For all of them, there is "intake" paperwork that you fill out when you get there. It's lengthy! It asks if you've had suicidal thoughts, if anyone in your family has committed suicide, if you're on any meds, how often you feel depressed, etc. It actually gets pretty detailed and makes your hand tired and brain worn out. I considered giving up on therapy just to be able to walk out & not have to finish those forms. But I did them every time. One doc made me draw myself as I see myself. As you'd imagine, that was a beauty of a picture.

Anyway, you write it on this intake paperwork, so when the doc calls you in, s/he looks at the paperwork, and goes, "So you have a problem with your breasts?" or whatever. And you go "yeah". And it goes from there.

were you embarrassed?
Of all the gifts God has given me, one of the ones I'm most grateful for is that I rarely, if ever, embarrass. I wish I could explain why. I've tried to help other people not feel embarrassment, but don't know how to convey the "who cares?" right-to-the-core attitude to them. I just don't care what people think of me. I don't know why. But I'm very grateful for it. One thing I do sometimes, when something is really hard, is act. Literally. Take yourself out of yourself, and say the things you need to say, but do it as though you're playing a part. When you're comfortable again, reconverge. Usually it only takes a few minutes of "acting" to get past the scary thing, and then you see there are no dire consequences, so you can "be yourself" again, and feel comfortable. Does this sound weird? I do it in situations in which I am very uncomfortable, and it gets me through. Oh, one other thing...keep in mind you are ALWAYS free to leave. At any time, at any point, during any conversation or situation. So there need be no fear. You can always just leave. So plunge ahead & see what happens. I always tells myself, "There is nothing to fear but every mirror...I mean fear itself!!!" (I have a weird sense of humor sometimes)

I've tried talking to a few people in my life about this that i trust the most, but they either don't get it or think i'm being vain or something.
BDD is commonly mistaken for vanity, when in fact, as you know, it is the exact polar opposite! No, people don't get it. They just don't.

I don't think anyone in my life really understands how debilitating this can be for me and how much it impacts my relationships.
I don't even know you and I know you are 100% correct in this statement. Same with me. Sometimes when I list to people how it has impacted my life, my choices, it makes their jaws drop. We connect dots that others do not connect. That is why we take things that other see as "unrelated" and "turn it into" all about our boobs. Our brain makes connections that others' don't.

Ugh Lightchested I relate to you so much when you said sometimes you think you're over it and then something will trigger you- that is how I am exactly! I go for awhile being fine and not caring so much ( putting a lot of effort into not caring mind you)
I too have to put a lot of effort into not caring. I wish not caring were easy! And it's so easy to sink right back to where I started.

and then boom! something will trigger me and I'm a total mess.
yep

I've found for me a trigger is usually a stupid movie like Beerfest that I'm forced to watch in a group or being around guy friends who talk about boobs or seeing a naked chick on tv with my bf. Or sometimes I will have suppressed the feeling for so long that I just erupt and lash out and go through a terrible night of hating my body. Then the next day I wake up and I'm all right again. I'm scared to get therapy bc I'm so embarrassed. I wish there was something else I could do.
Okay, same with me, all. Therapy gave me coping mechanisms, but didn't cure me. I too wish I could get this thing out of me.
Persephone3
"God am I full of rants or what? sorry to anyone who may have become offended by my man-bashing. There are plenty of men in my life that I love, but I would be lying to say deep down inside I don't have this dislike for men boiling inside me. I've also experienced some sexual abuse in my life that may have contributed to this and im sure many of my other issues- but I can't use this as a full excuse. Men get to live with a freedom that I don't have and for that they make me so angry. But if they ever start putting male full frontal in my HBO show then maybe i'll feel justice has been served haha."
[/quote]

Hi All,
I agree with so much of the wonderful advice that has been given here. But sexual abuse is very serious and could be the root cause of a lot of your problems. Surpressed emotions may manifest themself in the critical nature of your own body. You may want to consult a therapist, because you deserve to be happy and feel good about yourself. You would be surprised that when you start to deal with your issues, how it can change your whole perspective. But I believe all of this has already been said.

I too get very angry towards men, but I also feel angry towards the women that let themselves be exploited. I read somewhere that since women have been repressed the only power they feel they have is sexual power. Hopefully that is changing. I believe that we have made great progress, but we have a long way to go.

BTW - I have seen a lot of male nudity on HBO. More so than other networks. The show OZ had tons of it!

Pip - If you don't have a problem with your body (good for you), then why are you here?
auralpoison
/derail

OZ did have a LOT of peen on it, didn't it though? I'm surprised that we are getting practically no peen elsewhere. I mean, Hung is called Hung for a reason, right? Wherefore art thou peen?
Aithinne
Ok, I'm totally confused by this pip person and why pip is even here..??? Is there a point to his posts? unsure.gif

Anyway... Back to our regularly scheduled programming.

A few days ago I saw this REALLY good looking guy and he was with this gorgeous girl, but guess what- no breastage at all!! It made me happy to see the itty bitty girls getting the studs. I almost felt like clapping at them in public, but they would have had no idea what I was clapping for, and it would have been awkward to explain. Lol.

Moral of my story, celebrate the small boobie lovers buttercups! They ARE out there! Positive positive positive girl!! For every negative thought, say something positive until the positive becomes more frequent than the negative. It feels a little strange at first to say good things about your boobs, kind of like you're lying to yourself, but just trust me. Say it anyway. And look at those little things when you say it. Spread the boobie lovin.

*Boobie high-two coming your way*
Aithinne
QUOTE(strongirl @ Aug 13 2009, 06:45 AM) *
Re-read the responses you get in here over and over, rather than cycling on your own negative thoughts.


I agree.. You need to repeat the positive as much as you are repeating the negative garbage. Re-read! It does help! Make the good stuff stick in there, read it until you have it memorized!
Aithinne
Troll. End of.

NEXT!!!
karategrrl
buttercups, I also do recommend seeing a therapist. Your intake experience may vary, but yes, they may ask some questions up-front. Once you're over that hump, though, you can get down to feeling better and better. I've been seeing a therapist for the past couple of months and though he has taught me some valuable coping techniques for stress, most of all what helped me the most is just having a place where I could verbalize any damn thing I pleased, and not give a shit what anyone thinks, whether or not it's "appropriate" to say it, if it's the right time, etc. Incredibly liberating. There is something powerful on a deep level about verbalizing something--once you can talk about something, I have found, it doesn't have that weird control over you anymore.

Please give it a try and keep us posted. Therapists are trained to help you, and they are totally used to people who need help but aren't ready to just let it all hang out. A good therapist will know how to assist you in putting your feeling into words. Also, you may need to meet with two or three before you find a good "fit." A little exhausting, yes, but well worth it. then again, you might hit it off right away with someone. Best of luck. <<hugs.>>
karategrrl
I just watched that video about the Lil Titties. OMG, too funny. Tx for posting!
lightchested

I agree with so much of the wonderful advice that has been given here. But sexual abuse is very serious and could be the root cause of a lot of your problems. Surpressed emotions may manifest themself in the critical nature of your own body. You may want to consult a therapist, because you deserve to be happy and feel good about yourself. You would be surprised that when you start to deal with your issues, how it can change your whole perspective. But I believe all of this has already been said.


Not that this needed reiterating, since it's spot on, but I just wanted to add that the best BDD therapist I went to said most people with BDD have one or more of the following in their past:

1) sexual abuse
2) emotional abuse
3) "bullying" victimization in school

I was #3 big time. And my parents weren't exactly the lovey types. This particular therapist says that what needs to happen is that you play out your significant traumatic events in which you did not get the support you needed, to make you feel that YOU WERE OKAY and it was the other person that had the problem, and play it out with a therapist, who plays the role of an older sister or brother, or parent, or teacher, or SOMEONE who should have stepped in. He says it's to overwrite in your mind the most significant painful memories, so that you realize YOU ARE OKAY. That's what he told me anyway. It wasn't all he did, but it was part of his program.

It was a different spin than the normal BDD therapist, who does the whole typical cognitive behavior thing. He says those things don't work well with BDD because they reinforce the negative thought patterns. (typical BDD therapy asks you to always give "proof" for your negative feelings, but this guy said that's NOT a good idea because that forces BDD people to then find proof- in their minds anyway- and convince themselves further of the negative thought)

And then there are the drug pushers...
(anti-depressants)
yuk


Persephone3
QUOTE(lightchested @ Aug 14 2009, 04:09 PM) *

I agree with so much of the wonderful advice that has been given here. But sexual abuse is very serious and could be the root cause of a lot of your problems. Surpressed emotions may manifest themself in the critical nature of your own body. You may want to consult a therapist, because you deserve to be happy and feel good about yourself. You would be surprised that when you start to deal with your issues, how it can change your whole perspective. But I believe all of this has already been said.


Not that this needed reiterating, since it's spot on, but I just wanted to add that the best BDD therapist I went to said most people with BDD have one or more of the following in their past:

1) sexual abuse
2) emotional abuse
3) "bullying" victimization in school

I was #3 big time. And my parents weren't exactly the lovey types. This particular therapist says that what needs to happen is that you play out your significant traumatic events in which you did not get the support you needed, to make you feel that YOU WERE OKAY and it was the other person that had the problem, and play it out with a therapist, who plays the role of an older sister or brother, or parent, or teacher, or SOMEONE who should have stepped in. He says it's to overwrite in your mind the most significant painful memories, so that you realize YOU ARE OKAY. That's what he told me anyway. It wasn't all he did, but it was part of his program.

It was a different spin than the normal BDD therapist, who does the whole typical cognitive behavior thing. He says those things don't work well with BDD because they reinforce the negative thought patterns. (typical BDD therapy asks you to always give "proof" for your negative feelings, but this guy said that's NOT a good idea because that forces BDD people to then find proof- in their minds anyway- and convince themselves further of the negative thought)

And then there are the drug pushers...
(anti-depressants)
yuk


Just curious...Who helped you the most? I would tend to think the first option. It's funny how you can get such conflicting advice. As I think you said previously, you have to sometimes try different therapists. I hope you were able to find the help you needed, you seem very strong.
anarch
QUOTE(buttercups @ Aug 9 2009, 03:52 PM) *
there was a girl whose breasts were at least as teeny as mine and she was wearing this gorgeous bandeau halter bikini- and she looked goooood! We were all sitting on the beach and I commented that I liked her bathing suit. My mom and sister were like "no, it only draws attention to the fact that shes flat" and with everyone and my bf right there I said , " well i think she looks hot and having small breasts is NOT a flaw!"- everyone shut up then : )


What your mom and sis said has been bugging me. It's much more difficult to re-train negative self-talk when you're surrounded by people, especially family, who pass contemptuous judgments like that. So proud that you spoke up that way. It reminded me of this comment from a thread about a completely different topic, but the principle is similar (of communicating that certain comments hurt, and, building on that, that people who are considerate and not selfish or thoughtless will stop making them around you):

get them to stop and think about the consequences.You say to them, "Mom and Dad, when you say things like this, you hurt me." Give them a specific example.They will yesbut you in return. Let them finish.Then you say, "Now that you know this hurts me, if it happens again, we will both know you are doing it on purpose."This speech, plus meaningful eye contact on the next offense, cured a friend's parents of a twenty-year family "joke".

More on making your boundaries clear and enforcing them with people close to you. I love this part: "Other people ignoring our boundaries is NOT what causes us to get angry. We get angry when we do not gracefully and compassionately honor our own boundaries (whether with or without the other personís cooperation).
- This is because our boundaries can only be as clear and as strong as our support for our own wants, limits, choices, and values."

Nthing how cool all the wisdom here on self-esteem and self-respect is. You're all lovely.
lightchested
QUOTE(Persephone3 @ Aug 14 2009, 11:38 PM) *
Just curious...Who helped you the most? I would tend to think the first option. It's funny how you can get such conflicting advice. As I think you said previously, you have to sometimes try different therapists. I hope you were able to find the help you needed, you seem very strong.


The guy who helped me the most was the one you indicated...the first one I wrote about.

If I seem strong, it's because I'm not amidst a BDD attack at the moment!!! wink.gif rolleyes.gif But I know what you mean...in my un-triggered times, I do feel very strong! I just can't believe how quickly I can fall apart at the sight of some random female or a comment on TV or even a should-be-forgotten memory!!! I don't know how to hold on to the strong in those times. Or even find it at all.
blondenorwegian
Just checked back here for the first time in a few months.

To be perfectly honest, I had never heard of BDD before this! And I agree with the previous posts, buttercup. Positive reaffirmations, as corny as they may sound at first, help combat the negative thoughts. If you have faced abuse in the past, take it from some women who know (including me) and consider therapy. But I'm really glad that you (and, well, everyone here) has been able to share their thoughts and support.

To add to the positive affirmations, I'll share 3 stories with you:

1) I recently saw many of my girlfriends at a friend's wedding this summer. I brought up the story of my boyfriend from my first post and how his comment about his ex's "phenomenal tits" caused me to tailspin and seriously consider things like surgery. All of these women are considerably more busty than me, and they looked at me with their jaws dropped to the floor. "Why?? Why would you ever want to have bigger boobs?" they said. Two of my friends (both C's) later told me that they ENVIED my figure, and wished they had my frame in high school. Here I had envied girls with bigger breasts, and they were jealous of ME. (By the way, the bride was small-chested and wore a satiny gown with no bra, no padding, no nothing. Everyone talked all night about how beautiful she looked.)

2) I found this issue of Glamour magazine- I avoid these magazines as a rule- but this headline caught my eye. It's an article that discusses breast health and the truth behind sizes and gadgets to make things bigger. But what caught my attention is that they listed (with photos) beautiful women in Hollywood with A-cups.

3) I asked a guy friend what he thought about the big breasts vs. small breasts debate. He said, "Honestly, there's no such thing as too small. I'd rather have a girl that can fit in my hand."

Hang in there!
lightchested
Dudes,

I am in shock

click this but not on an empty or full stomach:
http://www.thefrisky.com/post/246-itty-bit...-support-group/

I feel like I am going to be sick.
kittenb
I don't understand. Is there something in the article or comments that offended you or just the article itself?
angie_21
Yeah lightchested, someone found that when it was originally posted online and it started a bit of a discussion over here. It's not too big a deal, since this is a publicly visible message board, but we were kinda miffed that the author never dropped in to introduce herself or even give us a heads up that she was publishing the article online, which is standard etiquette when it comes to these things.

Someone deleted all of Pip's messages, so I never got to read them! Bummer, I think it would have given me some entertainment for today. Oh well.

QUOTE
It was a different spin than the normal BDD therapist, who does the whole typical cognitive behavior thing. He says those things don't work well with BDD because they reinforce the negative thought patterns. (typical BDD therapy asks you to always give "proof" for your negative feelings, but this guy said that's NOT a good idea because that forces BDD people to then find proof- in their minds anyway- and convince themselves further of the negative thought)


Yikes, that sounds pretty bang-on. The whole problem with BDD, OCD, hypochondria, and all these conditions treated with cognitive behavioural therapy is that part of the problem is how good our brains are at coming up with excuses, proofs, symptoms, and signs that don't really exist. But I think that the good thing about CBT is that it forces you to recognize the negative messages you are telling yourself, and recognize that those things aren't true. The problem with CBT is that it seems to focus too strongly on awareness. I also add the more Buddhist concept of compassion & gratitude. Compassion to understand why other people can be so judgemental and hurtful, and gratitude that I am healthy, intellgent and capable, that I live in a wonderful country and have control and choices in my own life. It's not just being aware of the negative thoughts, it's having a wide range of positive thoughts to replace those negative thoughts with.
lightchested
I felt like the author should have gotten permission to do those copy/pastes. It's one thing to write an opinion on the existence of a support board (which I find rude in the first place, even though she relents in the article that this one isn't a pity party) but to quote people without their permission- even though our names are anonymous- bothers me. Those peoples' feelings were lifted & printed without their consent, and that bothers me. It felt like someone reading our diary and printing it for others' inspection. Sure, anyone could come to this link anyway, but she shoved it in the face of anyone who read the article, so they didn't even have to bother clicking on to here. I don't know. I have always been hyper-sensitive about respecting others' privacy, and it made me feel gross that people who are in no position to judge us or our feelings were basically put on the jury, by reading that article, to judge the validity of this support board. I admit I'm sensitive.

angie_21
I agree that it was a rude move, and from my training, the author made a bad choice in an ethical grey area. In an academic arena, she technically wouldn't be required to ask for our permission since we are posting publicly knowing that anyone could read what we write. But since she didn't even try to introduce herself to us, or ask what we actually think, she could have a pretty tough time passing an ethics review. I don't know about journalism though. If she's making money off the article or publishing a book, I don't know if she can directly quote us without our permission.
altricial
There is hope for us yet! http://www.thefrisky.com/post/246-is-downs...00:49Z?eref=RSS
auralpoison
It's kind of misleading the way that article used the pictures of Drew Barrymore, they are photos of her at obvious, drastically different weights. Also, she had a breast reduction when she was sixteen, she's never had implants. There is rumor that post her early thirties weight loss, she had another reduction & a lift to spiffy things up. She looks lovely either way.
Aithinne
QUOTE(anarch @ Aug 15 2009, 12:43 AM) *
What your mom and sis said has been bugging me. It's much more difficult to re-train negative self-talk when you're surrounded by people, especially family, who pass contemptuous judgments like that. So proud that you spoke up that way. It reminded me of this comment from a thread about a completely different topic, but the principle is similar (of communicating that certain comments hurt, and, building on that, that people who are considerate and not selfish or thoughtless will stop making them around you):

get them to stop and think about the consequences.You say to them, "Mom and Dad, when you say things like this, you hurt me." Give them a specific example.They will yesbut you in return. Let them finish.Then you say, "Now that you know this hurts me, if it happens again, we will both know you are doing it on purpose."This speech, plus meaningful eye contact on the next offense, cured a friend's parents of a twenty-year family "joke".


I was bothered by buttercups' family making negative comments as well. They certainly don't help her gain confidence. Family should be the people you turn to for support, not the people who tear you down. That was a very good strategy to tell the family members that what they say really hurts and is not acceptable. Either they don't realize they're stuck in a breast-obsessed thought pattern themselves, or they are doing out of a desire to hurt, which really is horrible.
angie_21
QUOTE(auralpoison @ Aug 17 2009, 06:41 AM) *
She looks lovely either way.


She does. As nice as it may be for us to hear that maybe people will stop being obsessed with big boobs for a few months while fashions change and slim figures come back into style, it's still an obsession with breasts. And it's never OK for people to feel they need to have surgery to fit into a dress, not matter what their size or shape. It's sad when something like that is written about as if it's some kind of feminist victory when people are still mutilating their bodies for fashion. (NOT saying that reduction surgery is mutliation, especially when done for comfort or health reasons like back pain and such, but when it's done for fashion or body image to fit some "beauty" stereotype, it's not much different than other types of plastic surgery)
buttercups
Hi ladies, I've been a little MIA lately spending a lot of time outside for the last few days of my vacation, but I just skimmed the boards and I have heard about BDD being linked to abuse, I guess I just never quite thought of it as the cause of my BDD. I always just assumed that it was because my breasts are so small that that was the root cause. Guess that may not be the case.. I'm gonna read up and comment more later.
KeraBear
QUOTE(lightchested @ Aug 16 2009, 01:37 PM) *
Dudes,

I am in shock

click this but not on an empty or full stomach:
http://www.thefrisky.com/post/246-itty-bit...-support-group/

I feel like I am going to be sick.


Yeah, for sure! How do you think i feel, being practically the main subject and all? Sure, practically anybody in the world can read all that, but that doesn't really change that i posted that content with the intentions of people in the bust lounge community seeing and responding to it, you know?

Oh yeah, and could they have picked a better photo? I am all about the cool, confident small breasted gal. That girl looks genuinely SHOCKED that she has small breasts... like she woke up in the morning and they were gone all of a sudden. "OMG, what happened to my chest?!?""
lightchested
WHO KNOWS HOW/WHY, BUT I SAW A POST FROM RANDYSOMETHING AND THOUGHT IT WAS POSTED TODAY...

Oh well. I'll leave this to ward of future man-posters.


Randy-

When you assess yourself, do you do so through "collective womens' eyes", or through your own?

When you try to discern how you feel about something, do you measure it by how YOU feel, or how you assume a bunch of people you don't know feel?

Is there any body part on your that you don't like? If so, is it because YOU don't like it, or because you "think" that women in general don't like it?

We have brains of our own, and that's what we use to think with. We are allowed to have feelings that have nothing to do with men. Our breasts are a body part on us: if men think our breasts "belong to" or "are for" men, then that is unfortunate. We consider our breasts a part of ourselves, and belonging to us, and we are free to have feelings and thoughts about them that have nothing whatsoever to do with what we think some anonymous Collective of Men might feel about them.

If this seems rude, it's because you're not the first man in my life, or on this board, to assume that my (or any of our) feelings towards my (our) breasts has to do with men. If it were so simple as knowing that some men prefer small breasts, I think we'd all have been quite done with all of this a long time ago. It's not a news flash to us. But thanks for trying- you do seem to have meant well. Can you see how it's insulting, though? The insinuation that we didn't know that some men find small breasts attractive? Because it insinuates that it's such a rarity, that we've never actually come across it ourselves. Like we're so freakish that we are supposed to be shocked to hear from someone that "some men really DO like our breasts!" We are women, not thirteen year old girls.

And as it happens, I was a stripper, and though I don't know if I agree that the slight-of-chest "hands down" made more money than the Biggie Sized, I certainly never felt handicapped. I do think the girls who pushed the boundaries farther tended to make more money than the others. I wasn't that type myself: I'd rather make less money & leave with my dignity intact. I'm not judging the others...it's just how I am.

-Lightchested
auralpoison
I'm confused. Are you responding to Randy Brador's comments of Jan 6, 2009?
KeraBear
QUOTE(auralpoison @ Aug 18 2009, 10:15 PM) *
I'm confused. Are you responding to RandyBrador's comments of Jan 6, 2009?


Let him have it anyways! wink.gif
Allison-Shine
QUOTE(auralpoison @ Aug 18 2009, 10:15 PM) *
I'm confused. Are you responding to RandyBrador's comments of Jan 6, 2009?



Link appears to be dead, it was before my time anyways.
Allison-Shine
QUOTE(KeraBear @ Aug 18 2009, 11:44 AM) *
Yeah, for sure! How do you think i feel, being practically the main subject and all? Sure, practically anybody in the world can read all that, but that doesn't really change that i posted that content with the intentions of people in the bust lounge community seeing and responding to it, you know?

Oh yeah, and could they have picked a better photo? I am all about the cool, confident small breasted gal. That girl looks genuinely SHOCKED that she has small breasts... like she woke up in the morning and they were gone all of a sudden. "OMG, what happened to my chest?!?""



Not the fifteen minutes of fame that you were expecting in life I bet, LOL.

The pic in that article is so contrived and even a bit patronizing. If her expression was genuine, her little surprise would have occurred when she was much younger. I wonder who the photographer was who came up with that shot?

The ususal responses from women who are blessed in the chest area (or even over-blessed) and also men with fake sincerity:
  • More than a mouthful is a waste (Such a cheesy saying, what you plan on sucking on my breasts all day?? I don't think so!) dry.gif
  • At least your breasts won't sag as much when you get older (It's not as hideous as being disfigured or something)
  • Guys will ogle and leer at you less (A little attention, even unwarranted, now and then is not the end of the world)
  • No back pain (Oh like C cups are a back-breaker, someone give me a back brace)
  • Clothes fit better (Not all clothes fit the same you dummies, some fit worse when you are smaller chested)
I know I hardly added anything with this post but I'm a little jaded and had to vent.
Persephone3
QUOTE(blondenorwegian @ Aug 16 2009, 02:39 AM) *
Just checked back here for the first time in a few months.

To be perfectly honest, I had never heard of BDD before this! And I agree with the previous posts, buttercup. Positive reaffirmations, as corny as they may sound at first, help combat the negative thoughts. If you have faced abuse in the past, take it from some women who know (including me) and consider therapy. But I'm really glad that you (and, well, everyone here) has been able to share their thoughts and support.

To add to the positive affirmations, I'll share 3 stories with you:

1) I recently saw many of my girlfriends at a friend's wedding this summer. I brought up the story of my boyfriend from my first post and how his comment about his ex's "phenomenal tits" caused me to tailspin and seriously consider things like surgery. All of these women are considerably more busty than me, and they looked at me with their jaws dropped to the floor. "Why?? Why would you ever want to have bigger boobs?" they said. Two of my friends (both C's) later told me that they ENVIED my figure, and wished they had my frame in high school. Here I had envied girls with bigger breasts, and they were jealous of ME. (By the way, the bride was small-chested and wore a satiny gown with no bra, no padding, no nothing. Everyone talked all night about how beautiful she looked.)

2) I found this issue of Glamour magazine- I avoid these magazines as a rule- but this headline caught my eye. It's an article that discusses breast health and the truth behind sizes and gadgets to make things bigger. But what caught my attention is that they listed (with photos) beautiful women in Hollywood with A-cups.

3) I asked a guy friend what he thought about the big breasts vs. small breasts debate. He said, "Honestly, there's no such thing as too small. I'd rather have a girl that can fit in my hand."

Hang in there!


Hi Blondenorwegian,
I found your earlier post. I was just wondering if you were still with your boyfriend? It seems from this post that you still are. This is not the first time I have heard of a man letting his preference 'slip out'. How did you deal with that? Is it still an issue? I'm sorry if this is too personal, it's just that this had happened to me as well. The relationship ended for other reasons, but it is still something that bothers me from time to time.

I'm very happy for you that you got such a wonderful response from your friends. They sound like really great people.

I'm also happy that you didn't choose surgery.
angie_21
Hey Allison, those comments usually bug me a bit too, mostly because I don't need to "at least" be happy about something. I like my size, the way it is, I don't need excuses. The way people say it, it's like trying to make up for a big deficiency with tiny little positives. No, I'm not deficient, I'm happy, though pissed off because really, clothes are not meant to fit anyone but someone who is 5'5, 120 pounds and 34C. But part of why I'm happy is because I am perky and have tiny cute nipples, I will admit.
Persiflager
*delurks*

I've added my comment to the bottom of the Frisky article, under the name 'Bathukolpian'.

*relurks*
starship
http://www.mailonsunday.co.uk/tvshowbiz/ar...oper-Ashes.html

For the last few weeks I've been doing 5 or 10mins (not much but I'm busy/lazy ok) of chest exercises a day and am starting to notice the difference already! All of my boob used to be on the outer-side by my armpits rather than evenly spaced and breast-esque but now theyre much rounder and even though theyre the same size as before they look much nicer imo. someone even commented on my 'cleavage' the other day (wtf) and the bra i was wearing was one of my more natural ones. Still an AA/A though lol...

Everyone in my family has big boobs, even the 13 year olds. Tried not to let it get to me too much during summer beach festivities but damn. And it doesnt help that my mother likes to run a continuos commentary on everyones boobs. I think she has her own issues.

Lurking over all your posts has been a big help as usual
strongirl
I really like Lily Allen! She's got the goods in every way - talent, looks, smarts.
buttercups
Hey Starship, I completely understand I'm the AA girl surrounded by C's and DD's in my family! It really is hard being at the beach and everything, but I think it was really helpful for me when I opened my eyes when I was there and saw a lot of girls that were just as small as me- and they looked damn good! My family tends to make alot of boob comments too and I've been starting to speak up about them for the first time ever. Its made me feel better to just go against what theyre saying and just be like "i think the girl with the chest as small as mine over there looks hot as hell!" and watch them shut up. That's awesome about the chest exercises, I've always thought about trying that but just figured it wouldnt make much of a difference, youve inspired me to start re-thinking it!

Allison-Shine omg those comments are exactly what bothers me too! They are all irritating in their own ways and I know people are trying to help but I wish they would think of something new instead of the same "you don't have to worry about getting attention" and "your back won't ache" thing. I am right there with you!

I had an OK day about "the girls" today until i was flipping through ipod applications and noticed how many of them were about seeing hot big boobed bikini babes naked. It's so silly about the things that get inside my head and under my skin. They're stupid ipod applications for chrissake and all I can think about is how i fail to measure up to the cartoon girls haha. Also, i didnt see one application for hot men- when is that gonna come about?
angie_21
Hey buttercups, I just want to remind you - those apps are not about boobs, they are about men getting to see women naked for men's enjoyment. That's what should piss you off about it. Keep reminding yourself, this fake-beauty, fake-boobied world is not something I want to be a part of. I don't want my reason for existing to be to help creepy/lonely/ horny men get off. I want to be appreciated for myself and my own beauty, on my own terms and for my own enjoyment.

And to be a bit hypocritical about what I've just said: Lilly Allen is pretty adorable. I know my boyfriend thinks she's hot. lol
Aithinne
QUOTE(Allison-Shine @ Aug 19 2009, 03:02 PM) *
The ususal responses from women who are blessed in the chest area (or even over-blessed) and also men with fake sincerity:
  • More than a mouthful is a waste (Such a cheesy saying, what you plan on sucking on my breasts all day?? I don't think so!) dry.gif
  • At least your breasts won't sag as much when you get older (It's not as hideous as being disfigured or something)
  • Guys will ogle and leer at you less (A little attention, even unwarranted, now and then is not the end of the world)
  • No back pain (Oh like C cups are a back-breaker, someone give me a back brace)
  • Clothes fit better (Not all clothes fit the same you dummies, some fit worse when you are smaller chested)
I know I hardly added anything with this post but I'm a little jaded and had to vent.


Oy, I know. Why can't people just simply say "small boobies kick ass"? It's better than all this crap.

1. I must refer to karategrrl's quote: Try saying 'more than a mouthful is a waste' to a guy and see how HE likes it.
2. Small breasts can sag too. Plus, I hate having to think that small boobs will only be attractive when you're 70. Ugh. Try again.
3. The ogling... I don't know about anyone else here, but I'm damn tired of being invisible. It hurts. The busty chicks can send the men my way for all I care.
4. I agree..C's are heavy? Gimme a break.
5. Yep yep, clothes are made for medium busted chicks... SURPRISE!!!!

I've actually been loving my boobies lately, I'm much better about thinking positively about them since last year's breakdown when I joined this site. What makes me mad these days is our dumb culture that for some reason chooses to encourage shame for natural bodies. Makes me sick!
p_176
um yea c's and d's and above are heavy.
Allison-Shine
Went to get a fitting yesterday for the first time in a year and a half and now I am a 34B ! I was a 32B before and have been so since 18 (I'm 23 now). Funny how my breasts look fuller than they were then but still the same cup size. Almost thought I would be a C cup but the fitting lady says not quite. Maybe in another five years sad.gif LOL.
buttercups
Allison i would KILL KILL KILL for 34B's! In my eyes you are the luckiest girl in the world! That is my ideal size! I bet if i go to get fitted they will be like - you're a negative AAA haha- once you start doubling and tripling the A's whats the point anyways?

Aithinne I think it's the culture that really gets to me too. I wonder all the time if this culture were different would I even have any negative feelings towards my chest at all? I tend to think I wouldn't, which makes me sad that in another world I wouldn't feel this way about myself.

buttercups
Ohhh I forgot- this is the perfect place to ask this question. I'm going away for a few days with my bf (we desperately need some alone time considering we both live at home for school- my god it can be awful!) and I want to get something sexy to wear. I usually can't wear any hot-looking bras bc I can't for the life of me fit in them. Does anyone know where I can get something sexy that will make me look like a grown woman and not a "cute little girl"? I can't order anything from online bc I'm leaving Tues. So is there any store or anything where reallll smallies have been able to find something hot? VS is pretty much out I don't think they cater to the AA. I really really want him to look at me and think I am every bit as sexy as if I was well-endowed. I think a hot little number could help with that. The last time we went on a little getaway like this was about a year ago and the only thing I could find was this lacy -ruffly nightie from Gilly Hicks. It was cute and very pretty, but not sexy. I need sexy right now!
Persephone3
QUOTE(buttercups @ Aug 23 2009, 04:23 PM) *
Ohhh I forgot- this is the perfect place to ask this question. I'm going away for a few days with my bf (we desperately need some alone time considering we both live at home for school- my god it can be awful!) and I want to get something sexy to wear. I usually can't wear any hot-looking bras bc I can't for the life of me fit in them. Does anyone know where I can get something sexy that will make me look like a grown woman and not a "cute little girl"? I can't order anything from online bc I'm leaving Tues. So is there any store or anything where reallll smallies have been able to find something hot? VS is pretty much out I don't think they cater to the AA. I really really want him to look at me and think I am every bit as sexy as if I was well-endowed. I think a hot little number could help with that. The last time we went on a little getaway like this was about a year ago and the only thing I could find was this lacy -ruffly nightie from Gilly Hicks. It was cute and very pretty, but not sexy. I need sexy right now!


I wrote this in an earlier post, but I found a whole rack of AA bras at Lord & Taylor. The cups were molded, but not overly padded, and they were soooo pretty. I wouldn't say they were vampy sexy, but definately sexy. I was shocked to find a whole rack of them too.
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