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cutenotsexy
Hi ladies! Not sure where to start, and not entirely sure what I hope to accomplish. I feel that I am a beautiful, confident, intelligent woman.... with one small (hah!) exception. I'm not sure if it's biological, evolutionary, cultural, or what, but I hate my chest and am genuinely not sure how to get over it. I have a wonderful boyfriend and he claims to prefer small breasts, but I'm just not sure that I buy that. I know, I know - a woman's body doesn't exist for man's pleasure.... I agree, but why can't I get over this and be happy with myself? I've tried to talk to him about implants, and he says he won't support me unless I got to therapy to discuss my issues with my breasts first. I've become obsessed - not in a sexual way, but in a jealous/threatened way. Even if a girl is really cool, I'm very threatened by her if she has a large chest. I just feel.... boyish. sad.gif
lightchested
Cutenotsexy,

This is my hell too, what you've described. Husband did finally want me to get implants, just to end the hell, but I didn't anyway. I don't know what I want. I just want them to magically grow. It's a hard life to be sure.

Sometimes I'm happy to be small, like when I am sick. I know it sounds weird, but when I am very ill, I think, "Thank God I don't have a couple of bowling balls rolling around on top of me."

But unfortunately (I can't believe I'm writing this) I'm not that sick very often. (You'd think I'd be grateful for my health!)

It is hard.


lightchested
Allison-

Try a 32C. The saleslady maybe didn't have any and hence didn't suggest it. I'll bet you could wear a 32C. Victoria's Secret has some in the Very Sexy line now...they didn't used to. And VS has more 32Cs online than in the stores. Nordstrom's has 32C's abound.

Good luck- just the thrill of wearing a C would be worth it, I'd think!

-Lightchested
starship
why wear the wrong size bra? When I was even smaller I used to buy 32a's instead of the 34aa's that i actually needed, sure the cups fitted but having the band digging in all day just wasn't worth it

Hey cutenotsexy. It's not the kind of issue that just disappears overnight but I think your bfs right that you should try to deal with it in other ways first before resorting to something as drastic as plastic surgery. Sticking around here will be a great start:)

Today I discovered I can still do handstands and cartwheels and was genuinely happy to have teeny boobs

And i was flicking through the channels on my new TV package last night and came across one of those seedy channels where semi nude girls wriggle about on screen and persuade some poor fools to phone in and speak to them. There were two girls together- one with big breasts (maybe a D?) and another who mustve been a small B at the most. At first i thought the bigger ones must automatically be 'better' but then I realised that I actually thought the smaller girl's were sexier- and could suddenly believe a lot of men when they say they prefere smaller ones. I wont be so quick to assume they're lying in the future

Aithinne
buttercups- I'm not sure you can find something on such short notice. You CAN find sexy things to fit your torso, but, since your size is smaller than what clothing is generally made for, you'll just have to do some digging. There's no way around it, unfortunately. So I think when you plan for a trip, you should start shopping right away. You will try on A LOT of clothes, but DO NOT GET DISCOURAGED!!! You just have to try on more stuff to finally find the right outfit for you. Also- remember that tailoring is your friend. Find a great tailor that understands your needs and when you find a shirt or dress that you like, you can see what the tailor can do to alter it for you.

As far as sexy bras, your guess is as good as mine as to where to go to find sexy ones...lol!! laugh.gif Now, I do think you are very capable of making a plain white bra sexy as hell. It's all in the attitude. The other day, I had my hair all messy-sexy, my makeup on, and I was getting dressed to go out. I had on my white bra (because it makes the boobs have the nicest shape), and went in the bathroom to brush my teeth, and I was like, damn! I got the sexy librarian thing going on. So buttercups, moral of the story. Just keep looking for the sexy bras. But, realize you can look hot/sexy/drool-worthy whether you're completely covered or wearing nothing at all. Btw, that's always an option. Just don't wear anything. I'm sure his eyes will bug out.

cutenotsexy- oh girl, I understand your name!! You and buttercups both hit on something that bothers me a lot- looking cute and immature vs. looking womanly and beautiful. I personally hate being cute all the time, and I can totally understand the frustration of feeling like everyone thinks you're the puppy-stand-in. Since I'm struggling with the 'cute' label too, I think all I can offer you at this point is understanding. Maybe some of the other women here have other things to add, and I'll be listening closely too.
strongirl
I went camping this weekend with a good friend who is very large breasted. When she was younger and thinner she enjoyed this, even had a bumper sticker that said "Yes, they're real". But in the past few years she's put on some weight due to hormone injections she has to take to keep endometriosis under control. Her boobs are now enormous. She has to wear this bra that looks like it was built by the Army Corps of Engineers. Two of the disks in her spine are damaged by the weight of her breasts so now she has to have monthly epidurals to control the pain. It hurt me to watch her move. She's very brave and trying hard to stay active but she can no longer ski or waterski and doctors are saying if she doesn't lose weight, lose boobage, or be careful, she'll be in a wheelchair.

Then I come in here and read about people wanting implants even though their lovers are opposed, feeling like small boobs are a hardship in life, being pissed about things people say to them to try to make them feel better about small boobs, etc.

I feel bad about saying this and I really don't want to make anyone else feel bad (and maybe I'm just grumpy today so take this with a grain of salt) but I have to be honest - some of our posts (probably including some of mine) are striking me as vain, self-absorbed, immature, and whiny.

I support everyone's efforts to come to terms with the issues and enjoy better health, relationships, self-esteem, and sex. But I think we ought to be careful not to fall into self-pity, mis-directed anger, and grossly overemphasizing our breast size in the overall scheme of our lives.

anarch
QUOTE(strongirl @ Aug 24 2009, 02:10 PM) *
I think we ought to be careful not to fall into self-pity, mis-directed anger, and grossly overemphasizing our breast size in the overall scheme of our lives.


I can't blame you for reacting strongly after witnessing what your friend has to go through. When I was growing up, we had family friends whose daughter was large-boobed, and what we heard about all the negativity she experienced because of them probably helped me be grateful to have small boobs (though probably my foundation for feeling ok about my chest was that my family and friends didn't make me feel like shit for having smallies. For other things, yes, but not for that). She was finally able to get a breast reduction in her early 20s (MD didn't want to do it before that because of some misguided idea that she would whimsically change her mind).

And I'm grateful now to be in my late 30s, having had almost a couple of decades to practice a bunch of things. Positive self-thoughts. Cutting people out of my life who make me feel bad for not looking "good enough" or whatever the hell fucked up priorities they judged me by. Building a network of people who like themselves and like me too, and talk like it, instead of tearing me or other people down. I wish I could shake people who make put-down comments like "She's so flat" or ...is there an equivalent put-down for big boobs?...because those comments are cancerous. They're doing it to make themselves feel better about themselves, in a superficial, sheeplike way, and all it does is spread the misery and the poison.

Blech.

On a lighter note, I just saw two things:

1. Kelly Ripa on the cover of Life & Style, defending her small boobs, I gather (didn't read the article, just saw the cover while I was at the drugstore). Though I'm kind of annoyed that she explained away never seeing herself getting a boob job because she's too much of a "wimp".

2. Atonement with Keira Knightly, and it's probably been posted here before too but I'm totally in love with her dress and how gorgeous and smokin' hot she and her small boobs look in that movie. Rowr.
anarch
Sorry for double posting, but I just ran across another damned ad where they presume to mess with the image of Knightly's chest.
Persephone3
I feel bad about saying this and I really don't want to make anyone else feel bad (and maybe I'm just grumpy today so take this with a grain of salt) but I have to be honest - some of our posts (probably including some of mine) are striking me as vain, self-absorbed, immature, and whiny.

I completely disagree with your choice of words. I am VERY sorry about yor friend, but their are a lot of women who post here that have legitimate issues that may go deeper that just poor body image. This is a forum that has the specific purpose is to discuss 'breast issues'. A place for support when other people do not seem to understand. It is often difficult to overcome the criticism that society has for women regarding their appearance. That criticism has come from women as well as men.

I agree that we can all use a healthy dose of perspective, but I don't agree that any of these posts are 'vain, self-absorbed, immature, and whiny'.

Allison-Shine
QUOTE(lightchested @ Aug 24 2009, 09:21 AM) *
Allison-

Try a 32C. The saleslady maybe didn't have any and hence didn't suggest it. I'll bet you could wear a 32C. Victoria's Secret has some in the Very Sexy line now...they didn't used to. And VS has more 32Cs online than in the stores. Nordstrom's has 32C's abound.

Good luck- just the thrill of wearing a C would be worth it, I'd think!

-Lightchested



Lightchested,

The new (34B) bras I bought do feel fine but out of sheer curiosity I am going to another place for a fitting. I just don't think that I can fill a C cup even at a smaller bra size. I am more concerned about bras fitting correctly than acheiving C cup status at this point. But thanks for the advice!
starship
QUOTE(Allison-Shine @ Aug 25 2009, 12:48 AM) *
Lightchested,

The new (34B) bras I bought do feel fine but out of sheer curiosity I am going to another place for a fitting. I just don't think that I can fill a C cup even at a smaller bra size. I am more concerned about bras fitting correctly than acheiving C cup status at this point. But thanks for the advice!


I read a magazine article once where the writer went to several different shops to be fitted and compared the results. The differences were quite surprising- one said she was a 36b and another said 32d etc, and very few measured her as the correct size. So yeah, might be worth a second opinion

I'm with persephone... It's a small breast support group. we come here to 'whine' about our breasts and get support, then support others when they need it too.
angie_21
QUOTE(strongirl @ Aug 24 2009, 12:10 PM) *
I feel bad about saying this and I really don't want to make anyone else feel bad (and maybe I'm just grumpy today so take this with a grain of salt) but I have to be honest - some of our posts (probably including some of mine) are striking me as vain, self-absorbed, immature, and whiny.

I support everyone's efforts to come to terms with the issues and enjoy better health, relationships, self-esteem, and sex. But I think we ought to be careful not to fall into self-pity, mis-directed anger, and grossly overemphasizing our breast size in the overall scheme of our lives.


I've been feeling the same way about this board lately. Persephone, I could say the exact same thing about the girls here, I am VERY sorry you all have such emotional difficulties, and I understand that they can be just as challenging as physical ones. But you know, we are lucky that our bodies don't hurt us or prevent us from doing things we love, or even living normally. Maybe some emotional problems can, but you know, every girl here has the power to change how they think about their bodies and themselves. It takes work and dedication, and sometimes professional help, sure. But I'm sorry, letting small boobs change how you live your life is a bit vain and self-absorbed. I know tough love isn't a popular method of helping friends out anymore, but tough talk from my friends has always been the best medicine. Maybe if we all stopped making excuses for ourselves, we'd be forced to face the reality that if it isn't small boobs holding us back, it's ourselves, and we've selfishly and immaturely wasted a damn lot of our youth and our lives fussing over something as silly as our milk ducts.

I've spent a lot of time here trying to help people out, not judging and being as supportive as possible, even if that means holding my tongue when I think people are completely taking things out of perpective, because I know that it can be really, really difficult to deal with societal pressures and more severe problems like BDD. I know what it's like to live with the self doubt, and I also know what it's like to finally be free of that self-doubt. But sometimes it feels like people would rather continue feeling sorry for themselves than actually take any of our advice and encouragement into consideration. To completely reject strongirls words and not even consider how we sometimes sound (I know I'm guilty too!!) is an example of the lack of perspective that sometimes seems to take over this board. A small breast support group needs to be, well, supportive, and it's tough to do that when it turns into a pity party. Good on you strongirl for speaking your mind!

cutenotsexy, hon - hi! Sorry if I'm sounding bitchy today. I just wanted to comment on your name, which I also completely understand because I've also usually been mistaken for the sweet and innocent type ... but so much of "sexiness" is in your attitude and how you carry your body, not how it's shaped. Try wearing a miniskirt in a casual place where most people are wearing jeans, and see if you still feel cute but not sexy! wink.gif And please, don't trust your television more than you trust your boyfriend, that's not a good sign for your relationship! He's right, anyone considering plastic surgery should see a therapist first, not only to see if they want the surgery for the right reasons, but to make sure they are prepared to deal with the stress and the physical changes. Did you know suicide rates are higher among women with implants than women who've never had plastic surgery?
anna k
QUOTE
Now, I do think you are very capable of making a plain white bra sexy as hell. It's all in the attitude. The other day, I had my hair all messy-sexy, my makeup on, and I was getting dressed to go out. I had on my white bra (because it makes the boobs have the nicest shape), and went in the bathroom to brush my teeth, and I was like, damn! I got the sexy librarian thing going on. So buttercups, moral of the story. Just keep looking for the sexy bras.


Go Aithinne!!!! I love that feeling, of just absentmindedly looking in the mirror and thinking, "Wow, I'm beautiful/sexy/cute."
Persephone3
Hello Angie, I hope my response does not come off as argumentative. I've seen a lot of message boards just get insulting, and of course that is not my intention. But I do feel very emphatic in my response, so here goes:

QUOTE
Persephone, I could say the exact same thing about the girls here, I am VERY sorry you all have such emotional difficulties


I get the impression the you felt that I capitalized 'VERY' as being sarcastic. That is not true. I wanted to portray that I truly felt sorry for anyone's suffering. I get the feeling that in your response 'VERY' was meant to be sarcastic.

QUOTE
I'm sorry, letting small boobs change how you live your life is a bit vain and self-absorbed.


Really? You know so much about my life? Or anyone elses life? Do you really believe that calling women, who may have self esteem issues, 'vain and self absorbed' is a good idea? Maybe you feel that 'tough love' is warranted, but I tend to see this as it is, a message board meant for support and not a therapy session.

QUOTE
Maybe if we all stopped making excuses for ourselves, we'd be forced to face the reality that if it isn't small boobs holding us back, it's ourselves, and we've selfishly and immaturely wasted a damn lot of our youth and our lives fussing over something as silly as our milk ducts.


For the most part, I have spent my time well. I have a degree in Chemistry and I am going back to school to get a higher degree in Environmental Science. I have a husband and two children and a house to take care of. And even with all these responsibilities and accolades, I sometimes get really down about the images that surround me DAILY regarding what I'm supposed to look like. So I often look forward to complaining, for just a bit, about the things that bother me. I don't consider that an 'immature waste of my youth'.

QUOTE
I've spent a lot of time here trying to help people out, not judging and being as supportive as possible,

I think you are judging now.

QUOTE
I know what it's like to live with the self doubt, and I also know what it's like to finally be free of that self-doubt.


I'm happy that you have come to terms (I'm not being sarcastic), but maybe not everyone here is at that same place you are.

QUOTE
To completely reject strongirls words and not even consider how we sometimes sound (I know I'm guilty too!!) is an example of the lack of perspective that sometimes seems to take over this board.


I didn't completely reject Strongirls words. I objected to some of the phrases she used. My exact response was:

QUOTE
I agree that we can all use a healthy dose of perspective, but I don't agree that any of these posts are 'vain, self-absorbed, immature, and whiny'.


I really get angry when you describe this as a 'pity party'. Some women have been abused. Some women continue to be berated by the people in their lives. I grew up without a mother, so I can trace where my insecurities lie, but that doesn't make them always easy to live with. To reduce my problems, or anyone elses, to a 'pity party' frankly insults me.

QUOTE
Good on you strongirl for speaking your mind!


I agree, I don't have a problem with anyone speaking their mind

buttercups
Before i delve into anything else, I just wanted to say that I went shopping for something sexy for my trip tomorrow and though it was difficult to find things as small as I need them, I was able to find like a black lace nighty that has no cups or anything so it just fits like a cami but its flowy and see-thru. I got it from H&M if anyones ever in need of something inexpensive and hot. It was $25. I'm not sure how I feel about how I look in it bc it doesn't have any shape to the chest area or anything so I look 100% natural ( and I'm pretty sure that this new BC pill shrunk my chest from a AA to a AAA) but I'll keep everyone posted..

Cutenotsexy- my problem exactly!! I know just how you feel and I have trouble listening to my bf too. I can't say I'm at the point where I believe what he says about me, but I'm at least trying to be more open to the idea and that's a starting place. Next time your bf compliments you about your breasts dont make a face or call him a liar or anything, just accept the compliment. Even if you dont believe it yourself yet just keep accepting his positivity-that's what ive been trying to do.

On the whole perspective issue, I def agree that things can sound vain and self-absorbed, but that's actually the exact problem ive been having with people in my life not understanding this issue. I am extremely grateful for the fact that my body is overall healthy and I know that having a really small chest is not the end of the world. However, as much as I can tell myself that letting stupid breasts impact my life this much is ridiculous, I don't think it's something that can be stopped by mere desire- bc I have wanted to stop thinking about my body this way for a very very long time. My emotions about my breasts are real and the way it impacts my life is also real. Sure in comparison to cancer it is utter BS, but that doesn't stop my feelings from being real and genuine. I look up to everyone here who has come to terms with their body and now loves themselves and I do think I will get there one day, but if you cant come here to talk about this problem then where can you? I know I've been negative and down on myself a lot on here to the point where many people might find it vain, but part of the reason why I also share some of my worst thoughts about myself are because I know everyone here will give me great advice and help me to reach acceptance. Angie_21 I agree that everyone can change the way they think about themselves, but part of overcoming the body negativity can be expressing it in a safe place and then having others help to lift you up and show you new sides to a situation that you hadnt seen yourself. This board has really helped me with that and while it shouldn't be a total pity party, I think this should be a place for people to show their insecurities so we can all help each other with them. We have good and bad days, and should share both with each other. I would hate to think that I'd have to censor myself on one of the few places I've found where I can be completely upfront about some of my feelings that other people in my life may dismiss as trivial..
Aithinne
You know, I've always wondered where the line was between vain and high or low self-esteem. At what point are people who obsess about their bodies in one way or another, vain instead of simply lacking confidence? Or what about how a person is supposed to get over low self-esteem about their bodies... Are they vain to start looking in the mirror and speaking positive words about what they see instead of negative self-hate? Is it vanity for legit emotional problems? What the heck is included when we use the word 'vanity'?

I've always been confused about this. Please explain so we all can avoid posting vain replies on this forum.
Allison-Shine
My concerns about my chest are defintely not about vantiy, that's for sure. Vain is never a word to describe me and no one else has considered me to be as well. I think AA-A cup women wishing for a little bit more is not unreasonable, crazy or vain. Maybe I am a borderline case for this forum/group being a B but my personal experiences justify my concerns and needs.


Aithinne, I really like your name, even though I can't really pronounce it, LOL.
strongirl
First of all, I'm sure that Angie_21's capitalization of "VERY" was not sarcasm. In all of her posts, she's been consistently thoughtful and caring and has gone to great lengths to share with others the things that have helped her improve her body image and come to terms with being small-breasted. I'm certain her comment was sincere, not sarcastic and not intended to hurt. I hope the harsh words directed at her do not make her go away because her posts have helped a lot of people, including me. Just the advice she gave below re. wearing a miniskirt when everyone else is wearing jeans is invaluable!

Aithinne's comment: "Please explain so we all can avoid posting vain replies on this forum." Now that strikes me as sarcastic! But it's still a legitimate issue, so I'll take it on. I was using the word "vain" to mean overemphasizing appearance - one can do that and have either high or low self-esteem around it. I've wrestled over the years with where to draw that line. Here is an analogy: I recall the fights among feminists during the late 70's and early 80's when some women were in "support groups" agonizing over whether to stop shaving their legs and armpits, while other women were starting rape crisis hotlines and going "Hello! We don't care about your leg hair but could you come help us deal with some real violence out here, please!" The crisis hotline women had a valid point: pressure to be hairless is a trivial issue compared to violence against women! But the other women had a valid point also: cultural ideals about appearance can be so pervasive and internalized that they can have a major effect on our lives without our even realizing it. The only way to even "see" it sometimes is to put it under a microscope. That is part of what I think we do in this forum and why I participate in it.

I guess I do see this board as "therapy", in the sense that people can voice their problems and then try to figure out how to deal with them or get past them or at least to a better place, with the help of others who have been there, how to actually heal from the injuries rather than just complain together. I guess it's legit if people want to just vent and get support along the lines of "Oh, I agree! It totally sucks being small-breasted!" But that's not really what I'm into - for me, it just doesn't seem constructive and seems only to reinforce the damage caused by society, in a sense, letting the bastards win. Why choose that instead of choosing to empower yourself, to work on your issues and, as recently mentioned, live well as the "best revenge"? I think that's what Angie was saying and I agree with it.

And for me, it really hasn't sucked being small-breasted. So I think I've used this forum as a way to analyze why it hasn't sucked so much for me, to reinforce my own thought processes and life choices in order to strengthen my own mental health (which I do not take for granted) and to hopefully in the process help others deal with the same issues and the same society. I like the process of people helping other people, for free, and find that I benefit both from reading others' experiences, struggles, and wisdom, but also from being forced to examine and articulate my own perspectives. Buttercups, I thought it was really cool the way you jumped in to support Cutenotsexy, below. That is how I see the benefit of this forum - we all try to get good stuff from it, and to pass that good stuff on. When we help others, we benefit ourselves, too.

So I apologize if I made anyone feel bad with my criticisms - it wasn't my intent to cause hurt or anger or make anyone feel like they should censor themselves. But I do feel it is in our best interests to step back and get some perspective on the relative importance/un-importance of this issue, to avoid perpetuating or being stuck in our own victimization, and to have gratitude for bodies that are healthy and yes, sexy, if we only let ourselves see them that way.

P.S. Buttercups, your lingerie sounds totally HOT! Enjoy!









Aithinne
I wasn't being sarcastic either. I promise. I'm actually interested in the line between vain and confidence or lack of confidence. I'm sorry if it did come across as sarcastic. Didn't mean it that way.

I've wondered about whether I'm vain too when I'm looking in the mirror or thinking about my boobies or any other body part that culture would deem less than perfect. I think everyone is vain to some extent, but whether it takes over your life or not is when a person can get into trouble and be either arrogant or in the dregs of low self confidence.

I am incredibly thankful that I've never experienced any sexual violence or assault. I'm often grateful I have managed to escape that thus far in my life.

But, this forum is the only place I have to talk about how I feel and to help me with my problems BECAUSE I feel vain talking about them with other people. Here I can talk about things that truly bother me without feeling like I'm the most selfish person in the world. NO ONE else knows about how I feel about my body. I've never even talked to my parents ONCE about my body issues and my insecurities because I don't feel comfortable being vulnerable and don't want to feel like I'm spewing a whole lot of stupid. So, sure, I will say that I'm probably expressing vanity when I post here, but since it's the only place I have for support where I feel comfortable and safe enough to discuss my body issues, then I don't care much about whether I'm being a little vain.

We've all got problems. Some of us have much bigger problems in the case of sexual assault and such, but they're still problems. And I think it helps and we deserve a place to express ourselves about our feelings. I don't think reaching out for help and support is vain.
Aithinne
Btw, thanks Allison-Shine. It's not my real name actually, but I took the name Aithinne here because it was a character in a book I really identified with. In the book, Aithinne is constantly comparing herself with her cousin who she thinks is perfect in every way. She doesn't think she measures up and feels that no one will care about her or love her if they see her cousin and be found second-rate. She kind of hides away for fear of being found less than and living a life of mediocre. I guess I identified with her struggle to believe in herself, her uncertainty that someone would want just her even after they see the perfection of her cousin.

Kind of the head space I was in when I joined Bust.
Persephone3
To Strongirl:
In my response to Angie_21, I was not sure if she capitalized the word 'very' with sarcastic undertones or not. That is why I brought it up. I also wanted to make sure that it was understood that my original response to your friend (the one with the back problems) was not taken as sarcasm.

I'm also curious, what were the harsh words directed at Angie? Do you think words like vanity and whiny are harsh? This is not meant to be argumentative, I'm genuinly curious as to what you think. I would hate for anyone to go away due to harsh words, because I feel this message board has been over-all very warm and supportive.

Aithinne - I didn't think your post came off as sarcastic. I also don't believe the word vanity fits here. I looked up the definition (since that word seems to be the issue) and it is defined as: the excessive belief in one's own abilities or attractiveness to others. Again, I just don't feel vanity applies here.

My intention here is not to argue. My response to her was in reaction to her response to me. It was never my intention to be hurtful to anyone, so if I came off that way, then I'm very sorry.




angie_21
Persephone, no hurt felt & I don't think your words were any harsher than mine, though I did not mean anything past that first sentence specifically towards you. And I definitely wasn't meaning to be sarcastic (And I never thought you were either! stupid internet and its lack of clarity). I do genuinely feel compassion for all the small sisters on this board, especially those who have been hurt and are dealing with emotional difficulties because of their bodies. If I didn't care about how people here flet, it would be retarded for me to be spending time here in the first place. But I also do feel that focusing on the solution is better than focusing on the problem, and sometimes it gets me down to read so much negativity about small breasts, and sometimes relatively little positivity, all posted in one day. I get a bit angry that so many girls feel that way about their bodies, partly because of how horrible it is that society fuels these problems, and partly because we allow ourselves to buy into it. And I vented about it.

I guess maybe one thing I should say is that I don't consider vanity to be 100% a bad thing, it's a human thing. I was meaning it as overemphasis on one's physical appearance, not too much pride in one's physical appearance, so maybe that added to the misunderstanding. I may be vain sometimes when I buy new clothes or lingere or dress up for a night out, and I don't think I'm doing anything wrong. As with all other "sins" vanity is only a bad thing when you let it take up too much of your life. I know I've posted as much about clothes and whatever as anyone else here, and I didn't mean I think that no one should talk about un-feminist things of something like that. Just that I do think we should try to keep it balanced between the positivity and the negativity. And it bugs me to hear small-breasted girls put themselves down, because then they are putting down everyone else on this message board.

In the end, I am a very strong believer in the power of self and human agency. We have choices about how we view our bodies, and whether or not to stand up to social conventions. Sure sometimes it's hard, but that doens't mean we should just give in. That's where I was going with saying there can be a little too much "woe is me, I have small boobies" sometimes. When I said "pity party" it was entirely in reference this (judge my use of those words as much as you want lol) and not in reference to physical and emotional abuse that people on this board have suffered.

As always strongirl says it better than I can.
QUOTE
I guess it's legit if people want to just vent and get support along the lines of "Oh, I agree! It totally sucks being small-breasted!" But that's not really what I'm into - for me, it just doesn't seem constructive and seems only to reinforce the damage caused by society, in a sense, letting the bastards win. Why choose that instead of choosing to empower yourself, to work on your issues and, as recently mentioned, live well as the "best revenge"?
Yes, that was what I meant. We shouldn't be victimizing ourselves when there's nothing wrong with us in the first place.

Buttercups, you seem like an intelligent, thoughtful girl and I can see that you are working so hard to overcome your fears and self-judgement (and the cruel words of family and friends now and then too). Just rmember that sometimes you have to take a break from "working" on it, and just be yourself regardless of your chest size or any other aspects of your body. I know, there's no magic button to turn those negative thoughts off (I have chronic anxiety, I know!), but remember, the goal is to love your body for what it is, not despite what it is. I'm glad you're here and have found a safe place to work everything out for yourself, and I do hope I didn't say anything to make you feel less safe or free here!
strongirl
No, Angie, I don't think I say things better than you, or anyone else. I definitely could not have done a better job than your last post in calming the waters and clarifying without arguing or being defensive. And thank you for doing it!

In a way, I regret my original post and wish I could take it back. I didn't mean to criticize other posters on here as much as just express my own emotional reaction to seeing my friend suffer from pain and disability caused by her breasts that she cannot control, at least not without surgery, then looking at our (not your...our...I'm just as guilty as anyone and tried to express that in my original post) extensive investment of time, energy, and emotion in an issue that is simply about appearance. In that context, I still think the word "vain" is applicable. I don't mean it as an insult to any of you, it just seems like an honest word.

My mother has this old saying "I cried because I had no shoes, until I saw a man who had no feet." It was one of those moments, for me, when I just honestly felt bad about how much emotional investment I, and we, make in our looks and it felt like in this forum we'd lost a bit of perspective lately, where rather than regard the issue as just one part of our lives that could use some psychological self-improvement, we were saying that it was an issue beyond our control that was ruining our lives. My friend's problems are beyond her control and ruining her life. Ours aren't, unless we let them.

I agree with Angie - vanity in the sense of caring about one's appearance and tending to it is a human quality. I don't think there's anything wrong with that. I know I care about my looks and enjoy them! The point I was trying to make, and obviously didn't make very well, is that balance matters. When you lose that balance, you end up overemphasizing your looks and potentially making yourself miserable if they don't measure up. To then blame that misery on others and to feel that it has no remedy, seems counterproductive to me. Which is not to say I do not fall into it - I have, and I do, but much much less than I used to, because of changes I have made in my own head. I read and post here to help reinforce those positive changes for myself, and to try to help others do likewise.

I guess this has been good in that it's forced me to re-evaluate why I do hang out here and whether I want to continue doing so. I do...but I'll probably be spending less time here and more time on other things that matter to me in life. Taking my own advice, in other words. Just wanted to say that so no one thinks I'm pouting. You all are awesome, intelligent, amazing women and I have so much respect for your thoughts and writing. Keep it up!




Persephone3
QUOTE
No, Angie, I don't think I say things better than you, or anyone else. I definitely could not have done a better job than your last post in calming the waters and clarifying without arguing or being defensive. And thank you for doing it!


I agree with this too. Yes, thank you Angie.

angie_21
QUOTE(strongirl @ Aug 26 2009, 08:21 AM) *
You all are awesome, intelligent, amazing women and I have so much respect for your thoughts and writing. Keep it up!


I agree. This is an awesome place to hang out and an awesome group of people to chat with, I wouldn't want to do anything to change that!
Aithinne
+1 girls.

I don't care if you call me vain, you all are still friggin cool as sh*t. True dat, small boobie homies.
buttercups
Just got back from the last little trip of the summer before school starts-and just want to say that I think all of you are great, I respect all of your views and opinions, and I'm as happy as I've ever been that I found this board! You are all life-savers to me!

I noticed something very interesting when I was away with just me and my bf- I honestly didn't care about my small chest! I walked around the entire trip with a barely padded bra or lightly padded bathing suit and since I knew no one there it just didn't matter. When I was out I never even thought about it. Angie I guess what happened was that I was subconciously taking a break from it like you suggested. It was very freeing not to worry about it and just not to care. Maybe the only reason why it bothers me so much when I'm at home is because of all the people I know and all the comments they make/have made. When I wasn't around any of them my mind was totally clear of breast worries. I even wore the black lingerie like I had planned and my bf liked it but he still had his usual problem with ED and I didnt blame it on my chest like I automatically do. We didn't quite succeed at fully working through it but at least I managed not to tear myself up about it. Has anyone else experienced anything like this where all of a sudden youre in a place where no one knows you and youre finally able to be yourself without a care? I'd rate my daily concern and thoughts about my breasts as high and this was one of the few times it was truly low- zero. I suggest that anyone who is seriously suffering should just go to another town over or somewhere unfamiliar and then try walking around in your natural state. I think it taught me a lot about what's really going on with me..
karategrrl
QUOTE(buttercups @ Aug 28 2009, 09:47 PM) *
Has anyone else experienced anything like this where all of a sudden youre in a place where no one knows you and youre finally able to be yourself without a care? ...
I suggest that anyone who is seriously suffering should just go to another town over or somewhere unfamiliar and then try walking around in your natural state. I think it taught me a lot about what's really going on with me..

OMG, yes, I SO relate. As so many of us have stated, we do tend to define ourselves to some extent through how others see us (or even how we think they do). So I think it's not surprising at all that it was different for you. You're right--this could be a deeper view of yourself. The trick is to remember what that felt like and learn to channel that more and more into your daily life. (Assuming you aren't going to suddenly pick up and move where no one knows you.)

So glad you had that experience. You will have a bad day again sooner or later, but hopefully it won't be AS bad when you have that memeory to draw on.
angie_21
QUOTE(buttercups @ Aug 28 2009, 03:47 PM) *
Has anyone else experienced anything like this where all of a sudden youre in a place where no one knows you and youre finally able to be yourself without a care?


Me too, definitely the biggest turning points in my life have been when I was in a new situation and suddenly spending my days with completely new people. It happened once traveling for work, and once for a field school. The first time I learned a lot about myself and overcame some pretty big social anxieties I've always had. The second time, I got home, ended a dead-end, emotionally abusive relationship, and moved to a new city for a new job. It sounds crazy to have changed that much, but having time to step back from the annoying day-to-day concerns gives you so much perspective on your own life, and interacting with new people helps you see yourself in a new light. I always look forward to opportunities to travel for work because of it.
Aithinne
I agree about the setting change doing good things for you. Different people will give you different feedback. If you're surrounded by people who keep telling you your boobies are unacceptable, time to find a new crowd to hang out with.


On a side note, I had a kind of depressing day the other day. Was feeling great and sexy, but then I got told I was 'cute' by a male customer at work. unsure.gif mad.gif sad.gif It was like an instant crash and burn for my confidence. Really sad how fast I suddenly felt insecure after that. I was having this great day, feeling good about myself, feeling like I could turn heads and then BAM! I got a diaper slapped back on my butt and shoved back in 5 year old territory. Friend-zoned!!! Got the ol' axe. Sadly, now I'm in one of those cycles where you're obsessive about your looks for days on end and your anxiety level is through the roof. Now I'm back in my bad state of mind, wondering if my 'cuteness' would mean I'm incapable of turning a guy on.

The 'cute' thing and the small breast issue are the two things that can get me down in the dumps for days on end. Now I feel like the only way I can get out of my cute=not sexy obsession is if a guy actually says they are turned on by the 'cute'....

*Le sigh*, always the same issues that are so hard for me to get over. I got small boobs, does that mean I can't be sexy? I've got a baby face and huge chipmunk cheeks, does that mean I can't be sexy? I'm perpetually cute, does that mean I can't be sexy? I'm generally not very curvy, does that mean I can't be sexy?

Blah, bad day for me, and no one to talk to about it so now it's doubly sad.
anna k
Aithinne, I think cute can be sexy. For famous examples, I think of Amy Adams and Drew Barrymore as both cute and sexy, having a girlish charm and innocent-looking faces while both being very sexy in an innate way. You shouldn't be so hard on yourself. From your writings, I do think you're sexy in an intelligent and unique way, and it isn't good to equate big breasts or curvy figures with "sexy." Personally, it can feel like an exaggerated feminity sometimes.
Eris_Sweetleaf
Hey, girls. Long time no chat but I had to tell you a little tale that happened only about...36 hours or so.

You guys know what memes are right? I'm pretty we all do but this is what happened. For the past few years ro so, the art site that I frequent to (which will remain nameless) has a few memebers (who will also remain namless) who seem to have it stuck in their heads that, get this, small-breasted/flat-chested women are DIFFICULT TO DRAW. Never mind the fact that most of their 'professional' galleries are filled with huge breast art, with women looking like they are about to take one up the butt but that's a rant for another time. Anyway, I thought 'hey, maybe if I got a few artist to show that small breast aren't hard to draw, I can call their bullshit for what it it'

And with that, I created this;
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v485/Bun...stMeme1copy.png

I actually posted this on two of my accounts on two different sights. Thus far, I have only had TWO people actually do it but within that I have gotten quite a few comments from other people who agree with the message it holds...they just don't draw memes.

Of course, I knew that with this, there were going to be a few, ahem, naysays who feel that its their right to tell us why they don't like small breast. Sure, they can say that, its their opinion but that opinion takes the dive into pure insult when their 'statement' turns into something that looks more like l33t speak that resembles a cat walking on a keyboard than anything coherent. Let's just say that I had a pretty worded fight with someone who thought like this who's only argument was, 'I jst think small breast are ugleh' His argument wasn't helped when it tried to make a *lame* joke that there should be a 'flat-tax'; all women who have flat chest should be taxed.

Its funny right? Laugh!

To make a long story short, the argument that followed wound up flooding the pic's owners gallery so much that she had to resubmit it. I know I shouldn't have gotten THAT angry but still, there is something wrong when someone thinks that liking big boobs is a 'real guy thing' and that saying small breast are ugleh isn't an insult. Of course even know, the guy is still trying to point fingers as ME and still claiming that small breast are unwomanly and make a woman look 'unbalanced' but the only good thing that comes from this is the fact that I know there are men around said site that can call his bullshit in two seconds.

But really, I hate people like this; people who think their cute when they try to make a joke out of an insult and then imply that YOU can't defend yourself because his/her opinion is higher than yours. I guess I would haven't have gotten on him so much if his wording was less immature but really, how far do you think when you're comment looks like this?

'Smlla breast are ugleh. Don kill me! Lol'

And THIS is why I made the damn meme in the first place.

I'm still waiting for more people to fill it out so please feel free to have fun with it. I really don't care anymore but there it is.
Aithinne
QUOTE(anna k @ Sep 3 2009, 07:07 AM) *
Aithinne, I think cute can be sexy. For famous examples, I think of Amy Adams and Drew Barrymore as both cute and sexy, having a girlish charm and innocent-looking faces while both being very sexy in an innate way. You shouldn't be so hard on yourself. From your writings, I do think you're sexy in an intelligent and unique way, and it isn't good to equate big breasts or curvy figures with "sexy." Personally, it can feel like an exaggerated feminity sometimes.



Oh anna k, how I love you! Hopefully work will distract me so I don't have to think...
strongirl
Good point, Anna K.

It's funny but when I read the posts from "cutenotsexy" on here, I ALWAYS read it mentally as "cuteandsexy" because in my mind, cute IS sexy.

Cute AND sexy: Kate Hudson, her mom Goldie Hawn, Lily Allen, Miley Cyrus (I don't really like her but she is cute and sexy), Katie Holmes, Gwen Stefani. All of them are cute and sexy in an appealing, girlish way.

Personally, I've always enjoyed being regarded as "cute" and I work the sexy aspect of that hard when I'm coming on to someone, even just at home with my bf, with good success. (Of course in a business setting I play it down and go for the more mature thing.) But a cute girl who is playful and flirtatious in a lighthearted, sincere way will have no trouble being regarded as sexy, in my opinion.
Aithinne
I think the cute makes me cringe because I have always looked underage. If all you ever hear is that you look like a cute 12 year old, you can feel pidgeon-holed in the cute immature box. Breaking free of the cute and being seen as an adult has been a struggle. Idk, cute makes me feel 12, and who's attracted to a 12 year old unless they're a pedo? Grr.. I need to not think about it so my distractions can start working.

I know it's stupid to get so worked up over a word that is supposed to be a compliment, but it still makes me feel unwomanly and insecure. sad.gif
buttercups
Aithinne I know exactly how you feel, I am definitely always identified as being "cute" and I always equate it with my lack of breast-estage. I remember all too well how the guy I was in love with in high school for 2 years would literally pat me on the head and tell me I was "so cute" all the time. I of course took it the wrong way and thought he liked me, but he soon set it straight that he meant it in a little sister way ( of course!). But everyone here is right, and maybe we've taken cute the wrong way. I think we're assuming that men and women use cute differently. When we say a guy is cute we equate that with hot and sexy. We may be assuming that when a guy says it he means little sister, but maybe he means it like we do. I know that anytime I've been at a bar with my guy friends whenever they are attracted to a girl they say "she's cute". Could it be that because of the way you feel about yourself maybe you misconstrued his words? This guy could have totally been checkin your hot self out and called you cute to pay you a compliment and win you over. In fact, I'm sure that's what it was! He was totally hitting on you and even told you that you're cute! I mean he couldn't tell you in public when you were at your job that you're sexy. Cute is much more appropriate for public and work and he most certainly meant to compliment you! It's time for us to take back the cute! Cute is hot!
Aithinne
You know, I realized that too, that cute is really the only acceptable compliment on looks for public settings between strangers. Unfortunate really... I wish there was a word people could use when they are strangers that wasn't also used for toddlers and puppies.
buttercups
See, exactly! He couldn't say "you're one hot sexy babe I want to ravage" because it wouldn't have been appropriate! He was hitting on you, you should feel great about yourself!
Persephone3
I agree completely with the 'cute' comment. I can't tell you how many times I've noticed a guy and said "he's really cute". What I often meant was 'WOW!'.
Don't be too hung up on looking young. One day, and trust me on this, you will appreciate looking young. Enjoy your youth. It is more valuable than you realize.
strongirl
"It's time for us to take back the cute! Cute is hot!" Buttercups, that is both astute and hilarious at the same time! biggrin.gif
angie_21
Hi Eris, I am really interested in what you wrote, but to be honest I only understand maybe half of it. I think you might have to actually explain what a Meme is before anyone can respond to your post.

QUOTE(Persephone3 @ Sep 3 2009, 06:54 PM) *
I agree completely with the 'cute' comment. I can't tell you how many times I've noticed a guy and said "he's really cute". What I often meant was 'WOW!'.
Don't be too hung up on looking young. One day, and trust me on this, you will appreciate looking young. Enjoy your youth. It is more valuable than you realize.


Oh so true!!

Also, one of my boyfriend's favorite things about me is how "cute" I am. He is constantly telling me I am adorable, sweet, cute, every nauseating word you can think of... I sometimes get annoyed too, but I know he loves me a lot because of it. To him it's very desirable for women to be genuinely sweet and loving, much more so than to be overly dressed-up like barbie dolls, agressive and fake. Those are overgreneralizations, but you know what I am saying. Men, at least most of the ones I know, have a protective instinct, and cuteness sets it off. They may not always like to admit it, but they loooove cute things. The thing is, cute and sexy are NOT opposites, I know it feels that way sometimes, but they actually can go hand in hand. And oh yeah, playing up cutenes, innocence, and helplessness, when done in a clever or playful way, is pretty well-known and successful method of flirting.
anna k
QUOTE
Don't be too hung up on looking young. One day, and trust me on this, you will appreciate looking young. Enjoy your youth. It is more valuable than you realize


Very true. I'm going to be 26 soon and still think I look younger than I am, wanting to look more womanly than girlish. But then I imagine that looking young and girlish will eventually catch up with me and I'll look more my age, whatever it may be.

And same on calling guys cute when you mean sexy/hot. I saw a guy tonight at the gym who was kickboxing while I was reading a book, and I thought he was very cute, and sexy when kicking/punching the bag. I wanted to say hi but felt it would be weird or intrusive.
karategrrl
QUOTE(buttercups @ Sep 3 2009, 10:58 PM) *
It's time for us to take back the cute! Cute is hot!



LOL! laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif

Love it!!!

Justin Timberlake has to do a sequel to "Sexyback." Call it "Cuteback!"

Yeah, sing it, ladies! All together now:

"I'm takin' Cuu-ute back! (Yeah!)"
Aithinne
QUOTE(karategrrl @ Sep 4 2009, 04:45 AM) *
LOL! laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif

Love it!!!

Justin Timberlake has to do a sequel to "Sexyback." Call it "Cuteback!"

Yeah, sing it, ladies! All together now:

"I'm takin' Cuu-ute back! (Yeah!)"


OMG, what a great idea for a song remake.. Cuteback. Love it. Just... awesome.
Allison-Shine
QUOTE(Aithinne @ Sep 4 2009, 09:24 AM) *
OMG, what a great idea for a song remake.. Cuteback. Love it. Just... awesome.



Yes I think I will take "Cuteback" too.

This thread helped me realize that most people use the word "cute" in place of "hot", "beautiful" or "sexy" since it is more PC or just simply more appropriate in personal situations. Now I don't get as worked up about the C-word as I used to.

Feeling more womanly lately, with my new 34B size and my hips and butt look real good. And the man I'm with surely helps as well.
starship
QUOTE(Allison-Shine @ Sep 5 2009, 03:30 PM) *
Feeling more womanly lately, with my new 34B size and my hips and butt look real good. And the man I'm with surely helps as well.


again with the implication that small boobs aren't womanly. gah

Uhoh, 'cute'. I used to take the odd suggestive pic for my then-bf when we were living long-distance. This one time I'd made quite an effort (fancy bra, makeup, sultry pouty face haha) and thought i was looking pretty darn hot...until one of his remarks in response was how I'm 'more of a pretty girl than a sexy one'. Yeah, he had a talent for saying the wrong thing. I'm er sure he meant well. I think it's funny now but at the time I was not amused...
Allison-Shine
[quote name='starship' date='Sep 5 2009, 11:01 AM' post='248668']
again with the implication that small boobs aren't womanly. gah


I am just speaking for myself and how I feel about myself as well. I wasn't generalizing or anything. After what I been through, I have a right to feel better about my body thats all.
Aithinne
Let's take back the 'womanly' too, while we're at it!! Here here! Time to redefine cute and womanly. Yay. Go us.


QUOTE(starship @ Sep 5 2009, 09:01 AM) *
Uhoh, 'cute'. I used to take the odd suggestive pic for my then-bf when we were living long-distance. This one time I'd made quite an effort (fancy bra, makeup, sultry pouty face haha) and thought i was looking pretty darn hot...until one of his remarks in response was how I'm 'more of a pretty girl than a sexy one'. Yeah, he had a talent for saying the wrong thing. I'm er sure he meant well. I think it's funny now but at the time I was not amused...


Man, that sucks. That's kind of what I feel like too. I sometimes feel like people see me as not even capable of being sexy because I'm so cuuuuuuuute. Yuck.

I find it really frustrating because I feel like how I am on the inside and how I look on the outside are at opposite ends of the spectrum, i.e. cute is on one end, sexy on the other, cute being the antithesis or negation of sexy. If I were to choose a picture to how I see myself inside, how I am on the inside, I think I'd probably pick something like how Eva Green looked in Casino Royale (I like this picture too). She was smokin hot in that movie. But if I were to choose a picture for how people see me on the outside....This.

GAG on that cute, why don't ya! It would be cool if I could pull off the sultry, seductive look, but I think my baby face is prohibitive. I really doubt I could pull it off. It would look like a joke, or like a little kid playing dress up. So sad... sad.gif It would be so cool if I could look that uncute and sexy.
starship
QUOTE(Allison-Shine @ Sep 5 2009, 04:20 PM) *
I am just speaking for myself and how I feel about myself as well. I wasn't generalizing or anything. After what I been through, I have a right to feel better about my body thats all.


I was gah-ing more at the general association of boobs & womanly-ness not at your personal feelings. I'd probably feel more womanly if i sprouted 34bs too. *not proud*
Ha i loved your 'how i feel vs how i look' pictures.
Sigh, for once I'd just like to knock a mans socks off
Aithinne
QUOTE(starship @ Sep 5 2009, 12:15 PM) *
Ha i loved your 'how i feel vs how i look' pictures.
Sigh, for once I'd just like to knock a mans socks off


I know, that's ultimately where my insecurity is. I am much better than I was with the small breast insecurity. But now I'm dealing with the cute insecurity and the non-curviness insecurity. Hopefully I can overcome those. But man, I know what you mean.

To knock a man's socks off, to make his eyes bug out when he sees you, to make a guy speechless..... That is my dream. I just don't see cute having that ability.
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