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nbdx0645
Good questions. I'll start with Kera's. I started to worry a bit around 6th grade, I'd say. My mom told my she was a late bloomer and developed breasts in high school (blatant lie) so I wasn't too worried. I pretended that I had my period since I was 13 to fit in with other girls. I got my period on tax day (lolz) when I was almost 15. I was done growing boobs shortly after my period started, I think. I didn't like to look down at them so I'm not totally sure of their size then, compared to now. I was really worried and self-conscious in high school. It seemed like breasts was a requirement to be popular in school. In retrospect, that wasn't the case, but it felt like it :/ I wore a lot of padded bras, swimsuits, and I always wore my push-up bra underneath my sports bra, until my senior year. I found a padded sports bra so I used those, instead. I didn't get teased as much as I could have, since I wore padded bras and I avoided low-cut shirts. I also wished I got the attention girls with breasts had. It's similar to that feeling when you're a kid, and all the other girls are being chased -- but you aren't. Aww.

There was definitely that "am I normal?" thing going on for me, since my mom wasn't a big help and my sister was too shy to talk about her small breasts until she was much older. I don't remember much of junior high, I hated it. Now, at 25, I'm getting used to being much smaller than most people. I think I'm secretly hoping that when I go back on BC they'll change. I also tried a bust-enlargement program. The swelling was temporary, and after one month my breasts didn't fit my bras...the bras were too big. Maybe I lost weight? I don't know. I stopped the regimen. I still have a bunch of pills in my closet. The bras I ordered from Urban Outfitters (the triangle-style ones) were too big. I'm not surprised. I'm tired of letting all these memories bother me.

As for posture, I'd be interested in what others say. My posture blows.
spot-on
Kera, basically I ditto everything Strongirl said. Boob size was never an issue for me until about 10 years ago, I was happier then. Then implants became the 'norm' for smallies to switch to and I got left behind in the a/b cups. I started my period around age 11 (yeah so not fun!) and my boobs started to grow around age 12/13 and promptly stopped a year later. There were plenty of small busted girls in my school, probably the opposite of todays schools I think. The bigger boobed gals got picked out in our day because they were the oddballs. I knew at age 14/15 that my boobs were done and I wasn't gonna take after my Mom. And after seeing her naked I was kinda glad, forever small, forever pert! My Moms are big but dayum they are around her midriff!!! No offense to the bigger endowed gals but sure I'd like mine a little bigger but not so big that they sink around my navel! My Mom takes after my Gran who is also well endowed and also has saggy boobs. I hindsight things could be worse, no way I could do my job with boobs like my Mom!

Strongirl- Posture: hey I'm a personal trainer, if you want posture exercises I'm your gal! Computers have been pretty bad for lots of peoples postures, my husband works in front of a computer all day so I see it first hand. Corsets won't help. There was a 'band' that fit around both shoulders but that wasn't proven much use either. I tried one of those kneeling chairs and though it did improve my posture whilst at the computer my knees felt the brunt of that but I do have bad knees. I tried the balance balls too for sitting at the computer and that just gave me back ache.

Basically you need to do exercises that stretch the pectorals and anterior deltoids, plus exercises to strengthen the lats, rhomboids, posterior deltoids (basically upper back). To strengthen the upper back try bent over flys, lat pull down & seated row. (google for exercise explanations) Yoga will definitely help so if you can incorporate that into your routine then great!
spot-on
I'm beginning to think I'm the only person who didn't get bigger boobs when they went on BC! Lol! I've been on a few different types and not one has changed my boob size!

Which BE product did you use? An online friend of mine has reported good things about fenugreek supplements. I may try it I dunno. Has anyone else tried any natural breast enhancement products?


QUOTE(nbdx0645 @ Nov 30 2009, 06:32 PM) *
I think I'm secretly hoping that when I go back on BC they'll change. I also tried a bust-enlargement program. The swelling was temporary, and after one month my breasts didn't fit my bras...the bras were too big. Maybe I lost weight? I don't know. I stopped the regimen. I still have a bunch of pills in my closet. The bras I ordered from Urban Outfitters (the triangle-style ones) were too big. I'm not surprised. I'm tired of letting all these memories bother me.

KeraBear
QUOTE(strongirl @ Nov 30 2009, 03:17 PM) *
It wasn't really like that when I was your age (in the 1970's). Being thin was the ideal and going braless was the fashion, so as a slender girl with small, pert breasts I thought I was quite lucky!


Dag yo... i totally grew up in the wrong decade... that must've been pretty sweet. wink.gif

QUOTE(nbdx0645 @ Nov 30 2009, 09:32 PM) *
I also wished I got the attention girls with breasts had. It's similar to that feeling when you're a kid, and all the other girls are being chased -- but you aren't. Aww.


I hear that. For the longest time, guys treated me like their little sister. SOOOO annoying. Thank GOd for my growth spurt!
karategrrl
KeraBear, I'm so glad you found this place. Be my little sister?? <<hug>>

To answer your question, it had to be about in 6th grade when I really became aware of the breast issue. One girl in my class had BREASTS. I remember one boy complaining, "All the girls in this class are flat-chested." (I guess he forgot the busty girl in that moment of dumb-assedness. But I digress...)

I got my period during that year but managed to fly under the radar, so to speak, b/c of being small chested, which was good--I was totally a tomboy, not comfortable with my body, and could not have handled any extra male attention. (Might I comment here how sick it is that teens and men in their 20's were being total pervs to me during this time??!! Must have had that Lolita look or something. Ew.)

Things really got noticeable in junior high, when suddenly it seems just about everyone around me was busting out (pun intended). A definite low point was being at a party and the "cool" girls were comparing boob size. I lost my guy-crush that evening to the girl with the biggest.

I'm 40 now, so that was in the early 80's. Breast implants were very, very new and it was, like, celebrities that got them--not your soccer-mom next-door neighbor, like it is today. So I never considered that until much, much later, which is fortunate, b/c in my mid-20's I started really blossoming, getting athletic and body-comfy, loving the bod for what it could do rather than how it looked, though I did get some awesome compliments. It's only gotten better and better since then. Which is not to say I don't always notice my small chest when I look in the mirror, but lately I look at my boobs, kind of look at them as part of the whole body, and say, "Okay, I guess I look pretty good." So I've considered implants, but after about 5 minutes of looking at melon-half/bolt-on "after" photos and photos of implants gone awry, I concluded that I like my own much better than anything I could buy, thank you very much.

I was a kid in the 70's, during the time strongirl described, and I remember the braless/polyester peasant blouse look. wink.gif I just missed the boat, though, b/c when puberty hit, it was the beginning of the plastic surgery craze we now know. <sigh.>


I totally second spot-on's comments about posture. Also, maybe just reminders during the day--set your iPhone to beep or whatever--to increase self-awareness. I look SO MUCH better with good posture and have told folks to TELL ME if they see me slouching!!! Thanks for the reminder!!

Geej, I have rambled!! sorry!
lux
de-lurks
I didn't get really uncomfortable with my size before i was in my 20's. I developed early, and got my period at 10 and my breast were about their full size before i was 12. Not fun at all, so i was kind of happy they stayed small at that point. No one ever really noticed them at that point, probably because i was kind of tall and looked older than my age. I also don't remember there being that much focus on boobs in school. It might be a cultural difference, since i'm from northern europe. And i've seen my mom naked enough times to know what to expect. We are still the same size. But i have to say that also small breast are affected by time and breastfeeding:) Then again why should you have teenage breasts on a middle aged body?

Until i was about 15-16 i didn't really think about my breasts. But then suddenly all of my friends started talking about how guys only talked to breasts and about getting rude comments on the streets and so on. Sad as it is when i think about it now, i felt so left out. I felt like i was missing on some common female experience and i was lacking something everyone else had. Sad, but that's how my teenage brain worked smile.gif. Then i got passed the worst years of terrible self-esteem, and what bothered me most was that clothes didn't fit me or i couldn't find a bra in my size. I'm still sometimes irritated by that, but i am A and not an AA now, so it's easier. I've never really been into the padded bra thing, and often went braless before, because most bras were so uncomfortable. To be able to find a small enough cup size i would need to go down to a band size that was too small and uncomfortable, since i'm not petite.

The biggest blow to mu boob-esteem was when my ex blatantly told me that i was un-attractive because my breasts were too small. On top of having lots of other problems with her, this really hurt me and my still not so great self-esteem. It got me thinking about implants and what not. I basically blamed all of our problems on my boobs, very clever. It's better now, and i'm getting happier with my body. I still sometimes think about implants, but not seriously, because i know it wouldn't fix my problems, and i would probably just get a bunch of health problems on top of it. And it's not like i have the money for it smile.gif

On posture: as i grew tall at an early age, i was also uncomfortable with my height, so i have problems with my posture. I'm glad my boyfriends is worse! On those periods i've taken ballet classes and other dance classes, my posture has been much better. I don't mean 15 hours a week dancing, but a couple of times a week as exercise. Basically any kind of exercise that where there is focus on the core, pilates, dance, yoga should help. But strenghtening the upper back sounds good too. I should do that again, and hopefully get rid of some of my head aches. I'm a student, and i sit a lot in front of the computer. I also sometimes try to focus on my posture, all the way from the pelvis to the top of my head, when i'm standing in a check out line, on a buss stop and so on. I'm hoping it will make my brain and body more used to it. Hasn't done the trick yet but i'm optimistic about it!
re-lurks
karategrrl
Okay, I just HAD to share this. My coworkers and I got into a conversation over lunch about "foundation garments" (girdles and the like) that women used to have to endure wearing. See this link and scroll down to the photo of the four seated women. The one on the left is inflating her bra with a straw. I guess bras enhanced with air, water and padding aren't a new thing at all!
spot-on
lux I'm from England and I agree I think boobs weren't such a big issue back there, not like here in plasticland USA. In England I didn't feel any pressure to have bigger boobs, they were small and I was "normal". Here it's like "hey, there are implants why are you not getting them" or at least thats how it seems. But I just cannot do it. Like Karategrrl said they look half grapefruits bolted on, plus I hate that big gap between them too. They look obviously fake. And when you don't have much to begin with they'll look worse from what I've seen. I've only ever seen a few good boobs jobs IRL, most are just joke looking obviously fake.

If your EX told you your boobs were too small then good riddance I say! If you can't appreciate what you have then you don't deserve it. I've considered implants a lot over the last few years living in plasticland, but like you said it wouldn't solve anything and the health issues and maintenance with it scares me bigtime. I'd rather stay small.

I don't plan on getting pregnant and therefore not breastfeeding so I don't see mine changing anytime soon. Unless they come out with some miraculous new drug that is side effect free and increases the boobs naturally. Amazing that they had a pill to give men errections but nothing to increase boob size without undergoing the knife!

Karategrrl, nope boob enhancing isn't new. Even corsets were boob enhancing as they were underwired and pushed boobs up. It's nothing new, women have been squeezing in and out of constricting clothing for some time it's all for fashion and body trends. Hoping the smallie trend comes back soon. I did see a report a few months ago that said Boob jobs were down on previous years, whether that's accurate I don't know. Prob cos so many already have it done, and the economy, but I can hope it's a swing back to "au natural". All men I know say natural is best, so why are women doing this to themselves?
buttercups
Just wanted to get my answers in to these questions. I think I can def relate to what you said nbdx0645 in that I was constantly finding myself asking the question "am I normal" or not- and in many ways I still am. My sister is petite too but she has DDs (au natural) and my mom is a full B cup, so I really don't know where I got my small chest from. Growing up, I never thought I'd stay a AA bc no one in my family is this small. I always figured I too would be a "late bloomer" and I remember I used to tell myself that if I would just stop looking down at my chest and looking at my breasts then they would just miraculously grow and then one day I would just notice them there. Well...10 years or so later...they're still the same. I can def relate to what people said about feeling like they were missing out on some shared female experience, I've felt that way for as long as I can remember. I think I was just perfectly fine and happy with myself until around age 14 when I went to high school and people started making comments. Honestly, I never noticed my breasts (or lack thereof) until other people did. My friends used to say that if we were a sandwich then I would be the cheese bc I was so flat. I've had girls ask me if I shop for bras at Baby Gap and make other rude comments in front of others. I've had guys tell me that they "think" there are guys out there who like girls like me, but that "they don't know of any". I've had a guy at work unbutton my shirt (yes completely inappropriate but I was only 16 or 17 and didn't think to do anything about it) and point out to everyone how there was nothing there. I've had my uncle refer to my chest as "mosquito bites" in the middle of thanksgiving dinner with the entire family, I've had boys comment about my chest in college in the middle of the cafeteria, I've had a boy talk about how flat I was to another girl in Chinese in front of me and they just looked at me and laughed and later on he told me what they had said, and I've had countless other situations occur. Before any of these things, I was happy with myself, and I think that's what makes me the most sad, that I can remember being happy with myself and then I can remember everything falling apart with people commenting more and more. If everyone kept their damn mouths shut, I think I wouldn't have turned out this way at all. But yeah I'd say it all started at 14 and went downhill from there. On a side note, I've always had a bf and never really seemed to have a problem getting one (though I've worn padded bras for years so they didn't know what they were getting into I guess). But despite the padded bras I've never had a bf really say anything negative to me when he saw my real chest (as nerve-wracking as that's always been) and I always manage to have better relationships than most of the girls I know. I've never been broken up with (not bragging here just maybe trying to point out that there is love for smallies) and anyone I've broken up with has always wanted me back to this day. I don't think I'm anything special and I honestly don't find myself attractive in any way, but there must be something these guys like. My current bf says he loves my body and as much as I can't believe him, he doesn't seem to be going anywhere anytime soon. So I don't know I was always told how ugly I was, but I managed to have better relationships than most of the people who swore no one would ever love this body.

As far as posture goes, I think I have decent posture but I've never done any exercises, so I would be interested in that too. I've always heard about how posture can improve the way your breasts look, but I just dont think its done much for mine haha. Let me know how that goes.
spot-on
buttercups, wow you really have had some comments from some asshole people huh? No-one is perfect, even movie stars and models have some issue about them that they'd change (and do) so screw them! I haven't had guys make comments on my small boobs but I have had women comment, And WTF is it with family that think it's ok to comment on boobs? Seriously? Rock on with your small boobied self, you sound awesome rock the small boobies and screw what the world thinks!

Yep posture can improve how the breasts look, shoulders back and down, abs contracted both make boobs look visually bigger but that's mostly noticable when naked smile.gif It does have an effect when clothed but mostly because when our posture is good we appear more confident and relaxed in our own bodies and therefore more atttractive I think.


QUOTE(buttercups @ Dec 1 2009, 03:48 PM) *
As far as posture goes, I think I have decent posture but I've never done any exercises, so I would be interested in that too. I've always heard about how posture can improve the way your breasts look, but I just dont think its done much for mine haha. Let me know how that goes.

angie_21
Wow, again I'm away for a few days and look what happens, I can't keep up! As far as posture goes, I find getting up and walking around almost always helps, anything to get away from the damn computer screen!

As for realizing I was going to stay small, that took a long time. It just never made sense, because a lot of the women in my family are larger, and because I've had wide hips since I was 12 years old, I always thought my boobs would have to grow to match them eventually (I'm still 35-31-43, dammit!). It wasn't until near the end of high school that I had to accept it was never going to happen. I went through an angry phase, partly because I felt I'd never be as attractive as the other girls, and partly because I'd wasted all that time thinking, "when my boobs get bigger, then I'll have the confidence to ask boys out" when I could have been just learning to live with it. But once I realized that was the way things were, I learned to accept it. I haven't had people comment on my size since high school, either. Maybe it's because I'm very careful to dress in clothing that emphasizes my waistline and hips smile.gif

Spot-on, my boobs never grew with birth control either, not one bit! which makes me imagine that none of that fenugreek and other herbal stuff would ever work on me. I tried it for a few months when I was younger with no effect, but I'll admit I was pretty half-assed about it. I stopped when the herbs started giving me dizzy spells. That was enough to convince me it was a bad idea even if it had been working.

Buttercups, that's a pretty amazing amount of shit you've somehow managed to encounter in one lifetime! I don't even know what to say. Maybe it's something to do with regional culture variations, maybe you live in some kind of asshole black hole in America? I can't believe people can be so disgusting. I also have always had a boyfriend, and always had relatively stable, communicative relationships. I do think that having a small chest makes us a bit more open and a bit less likely to rely on our looks to carry us through life, including with our relationships. I also think that given how tiny you are, you were getting more jealousy from other girls than I ever did, which is always expressed through insults for some reason. Boys on the other hand, are just immature and somehow think they have the right to comment on our bodies, no matter how ugly or out of shape they may be. It's a dumb world, but if you avoid the idiots, things are a LOT easier.
Aithinne
Holy cow girls!! I go away for a few days, and you all spew your lovely selves all over the board! Lol...

As far as the questions, I think I've managed to scrape by in my teenage years by not caring (for the most part) what other people thought of me. And thank goodness too. I could have been completely destroyed and empty inside if I'd been any less stubborn about letting teenage stupidity get the better of me. Thankfully I kept it in my mind that high school is a very insignificantly short period of time, and that life would go on after it. Of course, I was sad that the boys then and the men now weren't and aren't so much into me, but I'm starting to realize that I don't give myself or men enough credit. I was being weirdly self-preserving for the constant rejection that I dumbly thought I'd always get. How sad. People noticing confidence is not a bunch of BS, even though you secretly roll your eyes at the statement during a self-esteem slump. Luckily I'm starting to get myself on my side, instead of feeling like I've got some split personality with one eating away at the poor little other.

The posture thing is something I'm starting to downslide on. I played violin for 6 years until college, and it definitely has made me get in the habit of sitting up straight. But I'm starting to slack off on my posture, and I can tell because my back hurts sometimes when I sit a certain way with bad posture for too long. One thing that I still have good posture for is when I'm driving in my car. For some reason, I don't feel comfortable when I'm driving (or even as a passenger) unless I'm sitting with the seat straight. I don't know how people can lean the seat back and drive at the same time. But then again, I am super short and seeing over the steering wheel is another problem.
nbdx0645
Hey all, to follow up on a few questions --
For the breast enlargement program, I used Fenugreek, Saw Palmetto, and Red Clover extracts. I've abbreviated the program's directions. I hope that's ok. There's a regimen out there that has you take 1 of each extract 3x a day. Plus, there are topical extracts that you would use twice a day and massage into the breasts. In the beginning, it worked. My breasts were sore and my bras were snug. I was so happy for those 3 weeks. Then, my period came and it all went away, and then some. I couldn't fit in any of the bras I owned. I went out to Target to buy new ones, 34AA. I felt so guilty that I 'broke' my body. I was a small-ish 34A, but I could fit into things at department stores. Not anymore. It was horrible. They've stayed the same size since then. I cried every night for a few weeks. I also wondered if I gave up on the program too soon, but it didn't say anything about shrinking breasts so I didn't know what to do. I'm sure I felt the same feeling other women had when they've augmented their breasts and had complications or a bad result.

The worst thing about the program was the SMELL of the extracts. It smells like strong maple syrup. My coworker has the nose of a Bloodhound, and she kept going "Do you smell pancakes? I smell pancakes!" Another time, I was requesting a job from the photo studio, and she says "Oh no, I think the spotlight is burning out...can you smell the syrupy odor?" At the DMV, I was getting my motorcycle license, and the lady behind the counter goes "Eeek...someone's radiator is overheating!" Nope. It was just me and my smelly pancake-tits. Argh. Isn't that some form of irony?

For my Thanksgiving -- I still get creepy passive-aggressive comments from my mom. I wore a bralette with a tank top and a shoulder shrug to Thanksgiving. It was very cute. I was very double-A. My mom, the dumb broad she is, kept following me around saying "Oh, do you want my sweater? It's cold, do you need my sweater? Do you want to cover up with my sweater? I don't need my sweater." I kept saying "No, it's alright" and "No, it doesn't go with my outfit." But she wouldn't stop. It wasn't even that cold at my aunt's house.

Regarding birth control -- I was on ortho-tricyclen for a few years but I didn't notice a big gain. Though, I was on BC since I was 15ish because my sister got pregnant at 18....so I'm not fully sure if I gained with it or not. I really don't remember what my breasts looked like before because I hated looking at them. It's such a downer to recall all this stuff, but I'm talking about things I never thought about before.
strongirl
Wow, I'm just blown away by all these intense personal stories!

Buttercups, that is just a bizarre litany of awful things that have happened to you! Ya know, sometimes this forum is a bit tough because we can't actually see or speak to each other...it's hard to get a real sense of the person. But let me toss this out for your consideration. What if...people are so horrible to you because you truly are a "shining star" -one of those unusual people who others recongnize on some level to be outstanding, brilliant, beautiful, special - and therefore they feel no guilt about taking you down a peg? It almost seems to me like you have a peculiar mix of recognizing in some vague way that you are, well, impressive...and at the same time, being horribly insecure. I've struggled a bit to understand that - I've wondered, why would someone so obviously smart, with a boyfriend who appears to be quite smitten with her (and most likely a bit intimidated by her, thus the ED), who comes across as totally attractive and adorable - why would that person be so down on herself? Well, after hearing that laundry list of insults, no wonder, girl! The things that have happened to you totally suck! No one should have to go through that.

At the same time, I can't help but wonder - maybe you did fall into an "asshole black hole" (excellent image, Angie!) or maybe people see you as so strong, attractive, capable, and special that they think it can't hurt you to take a shot at you.

Something kind of comparable - on a number of occasions when I've seen myself on video, I'm shocked at how I come across. On the inside, I feel like I wrestle with a lot of self-doubt and dissatisfaction. But when I see myself on film, I seem confident, happy, and in control. The contrast is very strange to me. Maybe you have something similar going on and you haven't realized it yet.
issy
I used to wear Wonderbras with inches and inches of padding and sneak those little removable watery packets from department stores in my own bra, until I realized how sick I was of focusing on my tits so I set out to 'cure' myself by deliberately going braless with my small tits self. Well, it worked...triumph of will I guess. When the world didn't crumble and the sky didn't rain blood down on my shirt exposing what I was missing I figured, who gives a damn, right? I appreciated what I did have. Small, delicate nipples. A knowledge that they will not be around my knees, or cause my spine problems when I'm older. A couple of baby feeders when and if I'm ready. No matter what yours look like, I guarantee you have at least two stellar reasons to love them. I guess for me it was the footloose and titty free version of looking in the mirror and going 'they're good enough, they're big enough, and gosh darnit, people like them!'

And I've found that since becoming in love with my own breasts, there is not a tit that crosses my path that I do not love. I can literally not find a thing wrong with any titty. Which leads me to believe that mom was right, people who tease you really are just acting out on their own inadequacies. Like the lady said below me, they are just trying to take you down a peg. Or, more commonly, they can smell insecurity on you. I once read something that said 'Ever wonder why there are some girls out there that just draw attention, they grab every eye, people seem drawn to them and men flock to them, and yet you look at them going what makes HER so special? She isn't overly good looking, she might even be homely. That thing that makes her beautiful, it's not her hair or her face or her body, it's CONFIDENCE. It's the knowledge in her heart that she is amazing just how she is that flows out of each of her pores and makes her stunning'

The type of people who can only be up if they are bringing someone else down are those who see ugliness in themselves, not you. Have compassion for those who have hurt you as lost sad souls looking to soothe their own hurts with your tears. Dismiss it for what it is, THEIR PROBLEM, and you will be infused with something that no bra size or insult can touch, and that is self love, and confidence.
karategrrl
strongirl, you are totally right on with your comments as far as buttercups. You hit the nail on the head, girl. You reminded me of something--and not to toot my own horn, but at some point I did realize that looking back over the years, the people that had the biggest problem with me actually had serious problems with themselves, and felt THREATENED. It is a sick trait that people who feel threatened feel the need to take you down a peg, but it is SO TRUE. And yes, somehow strangely intertwined with others' feeling threatened is these assholes ability to also sniff out the least bit of insecurity, and pounce all over it. Buttercup girl, I do believe that is what's happening. It will take awhile, but I think if you act with confidence over and over again, over time these "people" will come to realize they can't fuck with you anymore. It will take time, and you may stumble a bit here and there, but you will do it.

buttercups, As I was reading your post about all the stupid shit people have said and stuff, I got a vivid mental pic of you kicking people in the balls (or other appropriate place). Just imagine the thrill of the look of pained shock on a douchebag's face as he realizes (through the searing, teary-eyed pain), "Wow, that little cute thing is fierce! I totally didn't expect that!" It's a sad fact that sometimes you have to force people to respect you.


Total topic shift: I forget who mentioned this, but you are NOT the only woman who got no breast growth whatsoever from going on birth control pills. When I started taking them (now about 4 years ago), my breasts puffed out a BIT and I was so thrilled I was, like, doing freaking cartwheels and wondering why on Earth I didn't take them YEARS before. I read online stories of women complaining how they'd gone from B to D, breasts too big, etc. and I thought, YESSSS! this is only the beginning!!!
Um..in two weeks, my body had adjusted. Back to AA Land. mad.gif
buttercups
Awww you are all so sweet and inspiring, thank you so much. I guess I half-expected that everyone here has dealt with those kinds of comments, and the weird thing about them was that they seemed to follow me wherever I go. So as much as I'd like to believe I do live in some asshole black hole in America (hahahahhaha I love it Angie!), I have to admit that the common denominator here is me, since it happened in other states where I went to college (and I transferred from one college to another because of how mean the people were to me and the same thing pretty much happened at the other college too). Maybe if I had learned to be as strong as you Aithinne, and all you other ladies here, I wouldn't have come across it so much. My mom has told me before that the people you hang around with reflect how you see yourself. I would think about that alot bc a lot of the girls (and boys) I have hung around with my whole life have always made comments and put me down, and no matter where I went I always seemed to end up with these types of people. My mom insisted that it had something to do with how I act and how I attract people who have a certain opinion of me. Part of me isn't sure how that's possible bc a lot of the people I became friends with in college I just randomly became friends with because they were living on my floor or something, but who knows?

Strongirl, you are just so kind and that is so sweet of you to think these things. As much as I'd like to believe that, there really isn't anything special about me or the way I look except for the fact that I'm so much smaller than other people in every way, so in that way I'm different from just about everyone around me. I guess people also love to put down things that are different, so that could be another reason. I have always gotten the sense on this forum that you are confident and very content with yourself and being yourself, and that is something I truly admire about you. I found it surprising when you said that you are often surprised seeing yourself come off that way, because to me you just exude self-confidence and security, and I'm positive that others around you see you that way. It's a wonderful thing and so refreshing and inspiring to me.

Issy I'm definitely at the point that you are now, so sick of focusing on being small, yet at the same time really wanting to embrace it and love it. It's awesome that you just went cold turkey, cut out the padding, and are feeling great now! Anytime I wear just slightly padded bras that pretty much show what I really have, I am super self-conscious and I haven't gotten to the point where I'm comfortable yet. And I try to wear them as much as possible, but still can only wear them with like a sweatshirt or jacket over me and only when I go out with my bf or I'm staying home when I know I won't really run into anyone else from high school or any of my friends now. I do believe that people can smell insecurity on you though, and that could definitely be what's happening, you're absolutely right!

Karategrrl you are so f*$@kin hilarious! Hahahaha it wouldve been so awesome to kick them all right in the nads! Then I would have to comment on how little those nads were haha! I can see people feeling threatened by you, because you are awesome! Next time someone says something, I'm gonna picture myself kickin those family jewels!

Guess you all have shown me that I really need to get this confidence thing goin, I'm on it!

And as far as the BC pill thing for me, I really never grew much either on it. I've heard before that it has a lot to do with how much hormones and fat you naturally produce or something, so the girls with naturally big boobs are gonna get bigger, but the smallies really won't be too affected. I'm currently on Jolessa, so I only get my period 4 times a year (not sure if I would recommend it bc I'm on it for painful periods and my last period was the most painful one I've ever experienced, so don't know how long I'll be on it for) and my breasts do get swollen and very tender. I've come to enjoy that tender pain bc I know it means my breasts are slightly enlarged and they just feel heavier. I'm the only one who can notice a difference and it only fills out my bras just a littttleee bit more, so still a AA, but I do miss it when I get my period and I completely shrink back. So for about 2.5 months I have slightly enlarged boobies, but once that week comes its back to square one. No pill has ever increased me a cup size or anything, and everytime I switch BC pills I think to myself "this is gonna be the one!" but nope. Probably just in our biology and our genes unfortunately..
spot-on
I have to say I agree with Strongirl. There is obviously something about you that the other people are jealous of. Whether it be your figure, your looks etc they are obviously jealous. Women can be total bitches to other women out of jealousy and we all know that some men, especially younger ones, often treat women they actually have feelings for and care about like shit. My guess is that they treat you this way to suppress your confidence and keep you at or below their level because they know that as soon as you feel confident and comfortable in your own body you'll me miles above them and leave them in the dust. Because of your lack of confidence you are attracting these negative people.

Obviously it isn't impacting you on the BF front as you said yourself that hasn't been an issue, you've always had a BF. However that can also cause jealousy in some women, especially if you have a strong relationship with your BFs. When women see a weakness they will hone in on it and 'put you down a peg' because again they are jealous. What do you have that they don't? What do they have that you don't? and how can they exploit that and make men see that they are the better option. They all know you'd be the hottest thing about if you had more confidence in yourself, they see it, and they are afraid/jealous of it.

I'd also like to point out that they aren't really your friends. Sorry but friends don't make each other feel like shit, or point out negative aspects. Instead of putting you down they should be lifting you up. That's what real friends do! My advice would be to get some new friends! Don't let them steal your confidence!!! See shit like that makes me all the more determined to kick ass and take names. Alternatively play their game, yeah it's dragging yourself to their level but hey if they can't take it don't dish it out! Pick something they are sensitive about and when they remark on your small breasts then comment on them. My favorite though is to act confident and turn the negative into a positive. What exactly are they saying to you? Maybe us busties can come up with some one liners for you to cut them down?

Ichigogirl
Hi! I've been reading bits of this discussion, and I'd like to add the view of a small-breasted girl who doesn't live in the US... it seems to be quite a different world!
It upsets me deeply that it seems to be politically correct, and normal behaviour to critizise women who are thin and/or have small breasts, and to call them unsexy and "not real women". At the same time you have to tip-toe around the fact that being too fat is deeply unhealthy, and the words "fat" or "obese" are taboo.
I'm not saying it should be ok to call overweight people names, but it's very strange that you have to be so very careful around the fat-issue - that is also a health issue- when it's totally accepted in a wide community to be quite rude, and personal, to healthy, sexy, small-breasted women.
I think fit, small chested women are very attractive, and sexy (I'm not gay, but in an estetic kind of way).
I'm chocked to read that some of your mothers WANT you to have plastic surgery just because you happen to not be bust-queens (but you seem to be queens in so many other ways, focus on that instead!). It makes me sad and I think it's just twisted. Insane. They should be so proud of you!
I live in Sweden, and although we do have PS here, and some women get their boobs done, it's not that common. My mum would be deeply upset if I had a boob-job, even though she's a small-chested woman and struggled with that in the 1950's -60's when Marilyn Monroe was the ideal... I think she's always wanted to be more busty. But to wish for larger breasts and to insert foreign objects in your body to get them are two totally different things!
I think the trend will turn. I think we'll get tired of women with perfect, plastic C/D-cup-boobs, and swollen ducks-beak-lips (they look awful!). It's like the beauty-ideal in some circles has become a freak-show, it's insane!
Sometimes I see pictures of actresses in the 1980's, with beautiful, thin lips and very small but perky breasts, and they were just so beautiful! Just look at Melanie Griffith, she was so much more beautiful before she got all plastic... and she's far from the only one. What happened?
I hope more and more women, and men, will discover the beauty in looking different, and of being natural. There IS beauty in all kind of looks, beauty is NOT just one thing.
Finally I'd like to share a - to me - surprising experience. A few years ago I spent an eveing at one of Stockholm's best nightclubs. One of those places where it's almost impossible to enter unless you know the guards (I have cute, clever girlfriends, so we got in anyway). I didn't know that then, but that very evening they had had an event at another nightclub nextdoor, arranged by one of the biggest glamour-magazines in sweden. All the special guests went to the nightclub I was at when the event finished, so the place was swarmed with perfect, plastic C- and D-cupped blondes (nothing wrong with blondes, I'm blond myself...). I'm a quite humble B-cup (32B to be precise, that equals 34A, or 36AA in cup-size).... I've never been as popular among the men as I was that evening :-).
It's not all in the cups, be proud of yourselves, you're clever, strong girls and that will get you so much further than implants ever will, promise!
Oh, and I saw someone here who wrote that she struggles with looking too young/beeing small; it gets better! I'm 36 now. I've always looked 5-10 years younger than I am, I still do, I will never look like a real WOMAN, but now it's finally more of an advantage than a disadvantage. I'm not that short (165cm's) but I'm very petit, and people liketo inform me of that (why?). And I defenitely wouldn't want it any other way (although i'm rather tired of having to convince people I don't lie about my age)! But it's a good skill for us eternal teenagers to learn how to convey your real age in a not too obvious way...
Love the way you are, with all pro's and con's (there are two sides to everything)! It gets easier to do that with age I think...
Ichigogirl
Take a look at this picture:

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2108/235456..._d8cde945b2.jpg

That's one of the top-top-models of the world at the moment, ladies, and she's gorgeous, with totally real, and very small boobs.
karategrrl
QUOTE(Ichigogirl @ Dec 2 2009, 09:19 PM) *
It upsets me deeply that it seems to be politically correct, and normal behaviour to critizise women who are thin and/or have small breasts, and to call them unsexy and "not real women". At the same time you have to tip-toe around the fact that being too fat is deeply unhealthy, and the words "fat" or "obese" are taboo.

Very insightful post, ichigogirl. I have spent many moments pondering the above stuff myself.
karategrrl
QUOTE(Ichigogirl @ Dec 3 2009, 03:04 PM) *
Take a look at this picture:

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2108/235456..._d8cde945b2.jpg

That's one of the top-top-models of the world at the moment, ladies, and she's gorgeous, with totally real, and very small boobs.

Wow. Sweet. And CONFIDENT.
strongirl
Issy, OMG!!! You are the Buddha of breasts, you have risen to the highest level of consciousness possible!!! Wow, we should all read Issy's post over and think about it and try to internalize it - it's PROFOUND!

I try to embody the deep love of self and others that you describe there but I don't think I'm quite on your level yet. Or at least I haven't been able to articulate it quite like that. I follow in your footsteps, I strive to emulate you. I will work to open up and channel my inner Issy. My deepest thanks to you for saying what you did in the way that you did. You are lighting the path for all of us.

And Ichigogirl, thanks for the reality check and refreshing perspective through a different cultural lense. You are so so right - beauty is NOT just one thing! - and in appreciating our own we also open up to appreciating others', as Issy was saying.

Buttercups, sorry to be argumentative, but there IS something special about you and everyone who interacts with you in here recognizes it. I think the people who have hurt you recognize it too, only they react negatively due to their own problems and insecurities. It's not just about looks or the size of anything - it's an energy, a vibe, it's the combination of the whole package. Reread Karategrrl's and Spot-on's posts to you. Face it, girl - we're right and you're wrong, LOL! (I say that with humor and affection, just in case it came across the wrong way.)
strongirl
Ichigogirl, who is that girl in the link? She's smokin' hot!!!! I'm in love.
KeraBear
QUOTE(karategrrl @ Dec 1 2009, 09:02 AM) *
KeraBear, I'm so glad you found this place. Be my little sister?? <<hug>>


I would consider it an honor. wink.gif

Oh yeah, and to those of you who started your periods at 10 or 11... yeah... that sucks. Looking back, i feel pretty darn blessed to have started as late as i did. But not so much when I was oh so eager to "blossom" into womanhood. If only I would've known. Ha ha...

Buttercup... i've had my share of teasing, but never eccountered an @$$hole like that guy who unbuttoned your shirt and then said what he did. It's one thing to be teased, but to have that happen from somebody you TRUSTED like that? Way not cool. You are beautiful. I can tyell that much from your words. And i've never met you.

And finally... you go, Ichirogirl! Well said!
spot-on
Ok did anyone watch the Victoria's Secret fashion show? There were a couple of smaller busted gals on there and it made me sooo happy to see them! Too often we're bombarded with images of unrealistic breast sizes due to implants and here is the major underwear manufacturer using REAL boobs, in REAL sizes and different sizes to boot! Aside from them being insanely thin I though it was pretty good, but then they are models so thin is par for the course. I just thought it was pretty good that they were showing boobs of ALL sizes kwim? Plus like Issy said, ALL the boobs I saw looked great! I didn't find myself thinking "I wish I had those boobs" at all. Maybe I'm turning a corner? lol! Maybe it helps to know that almost all the bra's there have pushup & padding and that what I'm seeing isn't just boob? I dunno. I do know that there were a few things on my shopping list for the future smile.gif
nbdx0645
My, we're chatty today wink.gif There's so much material here, I don't know where to start.

I usually just watch the VS fashion show for the prop-making (those wings are so fantastic, can they just sell them?) And it's important to remember that while these women have the title 'most beautiful in the world' -- others may not find them attractive. One-type-fits-all? Never. Hmm...maybe there's a marketing strategy in that line, somewhere.

My mom got the VS breast 'fillets' for me, and I wore them once going out...and let me tell you...when you sweat, they will be slippin' and a-slidin'! I wiped the sweat off them and sold the set on Ebay.

I was talking to my boyfriend about the board (it's our way of having a mini therapy session) and I told him that it's good that I'm as small as I am. Here is why.

Being a 34AA spurred my awareness to the numerous body issues that women have, and it made me want to help women feel like they're not 'less than'. What can I do to help? I'm not quite sure yet. I feel the desperation, inadequacy, depression, and isolation from my own situation. I can do my best to relate those feelings to women who have large breasts, women who lost their breasts, women trying to lose weight, gain weight, maintain their weight, women who want to grow taller, women who want to stop growing...the list goes on. I definitely can't understand everything others are experiencing, but I can empathize because of my own experience. I don't think I would be able to do that if I had medium-or-larger breasts on this body. I'm human, and this is the way I am, and this allows me to interact with other humans, in a humane manner. I don't know if I'll ever be happy with them, but I can be happy with 'me.'

I'm afraid of what I would have become if I "had it all."


spot-on
QUOTE(nbdx0645 @ Dec 3 2009, 03:19 PM) *
Being a 34AA spurred my awareness to the numerous body issues that women have, and it made me want to help women feel like they're not 'less than'. What can I do to help? I'm not quite sure yet. I feel the desperation, inadequacy, depression, and isolation from my own situation. I can do my best to relate those feelings to women who have large breasts, women who lost their breasts, women trying to lose weight, gain weight, maintain their weight, women who want to grow taller, women who want to stop growing...the list goes on. I definitely can't understand everything others are experiencing, but I can empathize because of my own experience. I don't think I would be able to do that if I had medium-or-larger breasts on this body. I'm human, and this is the way I am, and this allows me to interact with other humans, in a humane manner. I don't know if I'll ever be happy with them, but I can be happy with 'me.'


I think this is a great post, and the very reason that I started telling other women compliments, even complete strangers. Just one little 'pick me up' can make your whole day and make you start to feel good about yourself. Even if it's just a top they are wearing, or a certain perfume just tell them one compliment. Whenever we gussy ourselves up to go to a special evening out, we hear it all the time "Oh you look fabulous, that *insert item* looks awesome on you!". But why not everyday? Why not from strangers? This has been my goal since November, everytime I go out, compliment at least one person. I think this also goes back to the many reasons why not to get implants, because there will always be something else, be it weight, height, hair color, nose size etc (not to mention the health issues with implants). If we can boost some random womans spirit for just 1 minute of 1 day then I am all for it! Imagine if it took off, the self esteem of women would be raised everywhere, implants would be a thing of the past and world peace would ensue! Well not quite, but you get the idea smile.gif

The VS fashion show, I was just amazed that a major boobie brand used smallish boob models! I agree one size definitely doesn't fit all, and it's all in the eye of the beholder for sure, but it was good to see. I agree some of the wings, and outfits (the long flowy gowns) were beautiful.

I have a bra with the small fillets yeah sweat city. I hardly wear it now. Cos of the sweat factor and cos it's heavy! Those things weigh! Though the bra is ill fitting so that doesn't help. lol!
angie_21
wow! I can only say so much, but..

buttercups, you're outnumbered, we all think you're special. You're still very young and learning a lot about yourself, but what we see in you isn't about how you look, or about being cool, or different. We can see from your posts that you are very smart, very thoughful, and probably also a very generous person. Even though you are angry, you take everything into consideration and you think abotu how other people feel, not just yourself. It may seem like these things don't show, but I know that they must because I find that when I focus on similar qualities in myself, people are more attracted to me and act more positively around me. You just need to find a way to bring these qualities out where people can really see them! Also, even if you can't feel it all the time, you do have confidence, because you are here instead of in plastic surgery land. You know what you think, you know what you think is right, and even if you can't always speak up about it in front of your friends or family, you've refused to cave in and just do what they think you should do. That's awesome! Unfortunately, that's the kind of thing that others also sometimes try to bring down.

so true, issy!

nbdx, it sounds like the herbals were ramping up your regular hormonal cycles or something! I bet they would have a similar effect as the pill, help some people gorw a bit, but back to normal as soon as you stop, or as soon as your body adjusts. If it worked, wouldn't everyone being doing it, instead of spending all that money on surgery? LOL about the syrup smell! I also have the same feeling about if I had bigger breasts, then who would I really be? Sometimes I think I am so lucky to have gotten a bt less attention from guys, because otherwise I may never have had the dedication to my education I have now lol

I do have to disagree with the idea that small girls get picked on more than large girls. Maybe we notice it more because, well, we're the ones being picked on for being small, while we ourselves have never been picked on for being "fat." But in my experience, it's a lot meaner, a lot more blatant, and a lot more often when fat girls get rudely commented on. That's why it's considered in bad taste to make those comments. Skinny girls get some flak, but people assume we can take it because, quite often, we're only getting that flak out of jealousy and it's assumed we know it. And no one says "oh you're lucky, you're so fat." or "I wish I was as fat as you." people say the opposite all the time, however. And actually, it's not scientifically proven that being in the "overweight" range is bad for you. It's marginally proven that being obese is bad for you, but until you're hundreds of pounds overweight, it's less of a factor in your health than smoking or drinking. Now, being out of shape, that's another matter, but you can look skinny and be totally out of shape. Don't all pounce on me at once, I'm not saying people's comments to skinny girls aren't hurtful because I know they are, I've experienced them. I just don't ever want this to be a board where we bring other people down to feel better about ourselves. Like issy said, we shouls be appreciating all bodies, not taking our anger out on anyone else's bodies.
buttercups
Awww you guys are all too sweet, you really make me feel like being this way just HAS to stop. I guess if you all see something special in me then there is something there, and please all know that the feeling is completely mutual! For once in my life I'll take your word for it (thanks Strongirl) and KeraBear you are just the sweetest thing, thank you. And KeraBear I think it's so wonderful that you have found this place when you did, you are a million times more mature than I ever was at your age and you have an incredible attitude (much much better than mine ever was)! I wonder if I had found you all sooner if I would have avoided a bunch of crap in my life, but all I can do is feel lucky that I've found you all now and I can avoid all that future crap.

Nbdx0645, what an amazing perspective you have, wow. Your post was just so meaningful and you're right, I think not being "perfect" maybe really does open ourselves up to other people in a way that we may otherwise not have been able to. Looks like you've found a pretty big silver lining to what is so often considered a big dark cloud. Thank you for that, I'll remember that often.

Ichigogirl, awesome post it was very interesting to read about how we are all so breast-obsessed over here- I'm moving to Sweden! Thanks for posting the pic of that model, her breasts look almost exactly like my size, makes me feel happy : )

Thanks Angie for finding some confidence in me that I didn't know I had. I think about plastic surgery a great deal, can't say I don't, but until I go down that road I guess I do have more confidence than I think I do. I'm trying to focus on all the great things you have all said about me, and that's going to be the only things I allow in this head for awhile.

Minor little boob crisis of the day:

So we've had to perform physical exams on each other for class, I mentioned it a little while ago bc I was terrified of having to wear a real bra in front of people. Well today I wasn't expecting to be practicing doing physical exams, so I wore my usual way-too-big bra with the padded inserts. My professor wanted to see me and my partner perform some skill for whatever reason, and I was faced with having to wear my ginormous bra bc once I take the padding out it gaps so much my entire breast is showing from the top. So naturally I panicked and didn't know what to do, I have always had my tiny bras on anytime we've done anything like this. Well thank god for me my professor gave us a little break and I remembered I had a bunch of clothes I meant to donate to charity in the trunk of my car. I went ripping through it and miraculously found a normal bra in there that will actually cover me up- thank you god again! I ran in and changed and all was well, but that could have been a disaster. I guess that's just one more reason why you don't want to wear giant bras with padding in them hahah. I can't go in the other direction yet bc I don't want people to see me drop from like a full, overflowing B to a AA, but at some point I'm going to definitely start toning it down so it won't be completely obvious. *whew* dodged a bullet haha! Wish I never started padding like this so if anyone is thinking about it, think twice!

You all rock! <3 buttercups
Allison-Shine
QUOTE(buttercups @ Dec 4 2009, 01:43 AM) *
Minor little boob crisis of the day:

So we've had to perform physical exams on each other for class, I mentioned it a little while ago bc I was terrified of having to wear a real bra in front of people. Well today I wasn't expecting to be practicing doing physical exams, so I wore my usual way-too-big bra with the padded inserts. My professor wanted to see me and my partner perform some skill for whatever reason, and I was faced with having to wear my ginormous bra bc once I take the padding out it gaps so much my entire breast is showing from the top. So naturally I panicked and didn't know what to do, I have always had my tiny bras on anytime we've done anything like this. Well thank god for me my professor gave us a little break and I remembered I had a bunch of clothes I meant to donate to charity in the trunk of my car. I went ripping through it and miraculously found a normal bra in there that will actually cover me up- thank you god again! I ran in and changed and all was well, but that could have been a disaster. I guess that's just one more reason why you don't want to wear giant bras with padding in them hahah. I can't go in the other direction yet bc I don't want people to see me drop from like a full, overflowing B to a AA, but at some point I'm going to definitely start toning it down so it won't be completely obvious. *whew* dodged a bullet haha! Wish I never started padding like this so if anyone is thinking about it, think twice!

You all rock! <3 buttercups


Makes me glad that I majored in advertising. Whew, talk about being under duress !
karategrrl
QUOTE(angie_21 @ Dec 4 2009, 01:40 AM) *
wow! I can only say so much, but..
I do have to disagree with the idea that small girls get picked on more than large girls. Maybe we notice it more because, well, we're the ones being picked on for being small, while we ourselves have never been picked on for being "fat." But in my experience, it's a lot meaner, a lot more blatant, and a lot more often when fat girls get rudely commented on. That's why it's considered in bad taste to make those comments. Skinny girls get some flak, but people assume we can take it because, quite often, we're only getting that flak out of jealousy and it's assumed we know it. And no one says "oh you're lucky, you're so fat." or "I wish I was as fat as you." people say the opposite all the time, however. And actually, it's not scientifically proven that being in the "overweight" range is bad for you. It's marginally proven that being obese is bad for you, but until you're hundreds of pounds overweight, it's less of a factor in your health than smoking or drinking. Now, being out of shape, that's another matter, but you can look skinny and be totally out of shape. Don't all pounce on me at once, I'm not saying people's comments to skinny girls aren't hurtful because I know they are, I've experienced them. I just don't ever want this to be a board where we bring other people down to feel better about ourselves. Like issy said, we shouls be appreciating all bodies, not taking our anger out on anyone else's bodies.

All very good points, and thanks for saying so.

Speaking of beauty in all sizes, has anyone seen Gabby Sidibe (the new actress from "Precious") in her appearance on the Ellen show? I watched this this morning on youtube and found myself really admiring her--she's so down to earth and real, and sweet, intelligent and--shit, she has some fierce dance moves! She made no apologies for being large--she was totally proud and seemed so comfortable in her own skin. I was very inspired by her, and found myself thinking, "wow, she is beautiful from the inside out" and "dang, if she can be so fierce as a large girl, surely I can be just as fierce with my booblets." wink.gif I have to see that movie.
Aithinne
QUOTE(angie_21 @ Dec 3 2009, 06:40 PM) *
I do have to disagree with the idea that small girls get picked on more than large girls. Maybe we notice it more because, well, we're the ones being picked on for being small, while we ourselves have never been picked on for being "fat." But in my experience, it's a lot meaner, a lot more blatant, and a lot more often when fat girls get rudely commented on. That's why it's considered in bad taste to make those comments. Skinny girls get some flak, but people assume we can take it because, quite often, we're only getting that flak out of jealousy and it's assumed we know it. And no one says "oh you're lucky, you're so fat." or "I wish I was as fat as you." people say the opposite all the time, however. And actually, it's not scientifically proven that being in the "overweight" range is bad for you. It's marginally proven that being obese is bad for you, but until you're hundreds of pounds overweight, it's less of a factor in your health than smoking or drinking. Now, being out of shape, that's another matter, but you can look skinny and be totally out of shape. Don't all pounce on me at once, I'm not saying people's comments to skinny girls aren't hurtful because I know they are, I've experienced them. I just don't ever want this to be a board where we bring other people down to feel better about ourselves. Like issy said, we shouls be appreciating all bodies, not taking our anger out on anyone else's bodies.


I have no doubt that large girls get picked on more than smaller girls and I don't think anyone is trying to say that they aren't. However, what I do find crazy is that some people on other websites discussing the topic actually continue that statement to say that because they were picked on more frequently for being fat, that they were hurt worse based on the frequency of the insults. Which I think is flawed. Some people don't let insults get to them and mean words just roll off their backs despite the frequency. Other people are more sensitive to negative words and just a few scathing comments can rip a person to shreds. I've read all sorts of discussions on other websites and women who were made fun of for being fat frequently dismiss a smaller girl's problems with being small. But we should realize that each person's experience is different and just because one person considers another's to be completely stupid, it still affects the person negatively and their experience shouldn't be dismissed.

I also think I have gained a large capacity for empathy because of my unique situation with my problems. I've discussed my insecurities with being small, looking super-young, looking cute, etc. Many of these problems are things others seem to laugh in my face about, thinking I'm crazy to think such things could make me insecure. I think many people could empathize with others being insecure about being fat. But because being skinny, young-looking and 'cute' are things that others easily think are the greatest things in the world, many people simply refuse to try to understand how these things could have a negative side. So what I think I'm trying to say is that because my self-esteem problems are ones that people find very difficult to empathize with, I feel like I have a better capacity to empathize with others' body problems. The point is not what makes us insecure, the point is that it makes us insecure. It's about what the person's perception of themselves are, regardless of what the insecurity is, or whether the person listening thinks the insecurity is stupid, something many others wish they had.

So I agree with what nbdx0645 said below. I don't have huge knockers and problably never will. I don't know how it feels to be large-breasted. But I do understand how they feel when they say they feel like freaks, how they wish people would stop staring at them, how it feels to have people point them out as if they own them. Similarly with people who are insecure about being fat, I understand how it feels to feel like no one sees you standing there, no one will be attracted to you, how you can't possibly compete with all the other more perfect women in the room. Regardless of whether our problems are complete opposites, I have learned that we can still understand how each other feel about it. There is always common ground to be found. In a way I'm glad that my insecurities are so difficult for others to empathize with. I think it made me a more forgiving and open person to the suffering of others than I would have otherwise been. This board is one of the only places I've found where I feel like people understand me and I'm thankful for it. You all rock.
spot-on
QUOTE
And no one says "oh you're lucky, you're so fat." or "I wish I was as fat as you." people say the opposite all the time, however.... Don't all pounce on me at once, I'm not saying people's comments to skinny girls aren't hurtful because I know they are, I've experienced them. I just don't ever want this to be a board where we bring other people down to feel better about ourselves. Like issy said, we shouls be appreciating all bodies, not taking our anger out on anyone else's bodies.


I'd be fine IF they only said that, I have no problem with people saying "oh you're lucky you're so thin" or whatever, the comments that hurt are the spiteful women that say "I hate you, you're so thin!" But it's the WAY they say it for me that's the problem. If my BFF said it, laughing then I wouldn't think anything of it, I'd laugh it off as our inside joke. But some women say it so venomously, kwim? Unless you've had it said to you in a snotty way I guess it's hard to explain. They also do "the look" too. Can't describe that either, but if looks could kill I'd be dead a 100x over. I'm not saying bigger girls have it easy, but sometimes for those of us on the flipside it's just as bad. Only the hurtful comments to us it's considered "being nice" despite the hurtful way they say it.

I guess it's the same when eating out. If a bigger girl eats something people call them a "pig" and "overeater" if we eat salads or healthy food we're told to "get a few cheeseburgers down you" or similar comments. Seriously I weigh 120lbs at 5'4" I am on the althletic/lean scale on the body fat % (17%) yet I eat like a horse. I eat 5x a day and I eat a lot! I jsut burn it off with exercise (fitness instructor) and boosted metabolism from the exercise and eating. I probably eat more than some of my male friends, so stop telling me I need cheeseburgers or cake! Ok maybe the cake, I do like cake!

QUOTE
The type of people who can only be up if they are bringing someone else down are those who see ugliness in themselves, not you. Have compassion for those who have hurt you as lost sad souls looking to soothe their own hurts with your tears. Dismiss it for what it is, THEIR PROBLEM, and you will be infused with something that no bra size or insult can touch, and that is self love, and confidence.


I think this bears repeating, and kinda all goes back to what I was saying about complimenting each other to make other women feel empowered. If someone told me that I looked good because I was thin I'd be happy. If they said they HATE me for being thin I'd be self conscious of my own body and the way it made people feel. Some people just need to THINK before they say stuff to others, regardless of their size!
nbdx0645
Spot-on, I love hearing a compliment from a passer-by, even if it's something tiny. My boyfriend gives me compliments, and I like them...but you feel that the passer-by will give you a more honest compliment. After all, you can't tell the stranger to sleep on the couch for saying something WRONG! tongue.gif

QUOTE
Regardless of whether our problems are complete opposites, I have learned that we can still understand how each other feel about it. There is always common ground to be found. In a way I'm glad that my insecurities are so difficult for others to empathize with. I think it made me a more forgiving and open person to the suffering of others than I would have otherwise been. This board is one of the only places I've found where I feel like people understand me and I'm thankful for it. You all rock.


Word. To solidify this point, I'm going to relate this to a non-body-image scenario: We have two people, named A and Z. A's sibling just passed away. Z just signed the papers declaring bankruptcy. Many times, we see "MY situation is worse than YOURS." How can that claim be quantified? Even if one is more devastating that the other's, aren't they both experiencing pain? Anguish? Sadness? That's the heart of the matter. We're the end-result of our lives: What we've loved, what we've lost, and what we never had -- and what we've learned.

Here's an excerpt from the "Breasts of Canada website" that resonates with what we've been talking about lately. (Here is a link to the full piece http://www.blogher.com/node/10715)

Big deal number one - Women have to stop hating their breasts or being ashamed of their breasts or embarrassed by their breasts. We need to stop apologizing for having large ones or small ones or nursing ones or non-nursing ones or scarred ones or sagging ones....

Big deal number two - We also need to make sure we aren't giving men, other women and the media the power to use our breasts against us or against other women.....

I am a breast ambassador and I want my daughters to be breast ambassadors too. If they can love, appreciate and respect their breasts - and the breasts of other women - I think they'll be able to handle anything life throws at them.


Here's a poem that I found when I went through my "scour-the-internet-to-look-for-reassurance" phase: (I wish I knew where I found it.)

You complain
That your breasts
Are too small
But each one
Fits perfectly
In my hands
And I hope
To hold them
And your heart
Forever.

It's the second best thing I've found, after you busties.
buttercups
Nbdx0645, I love love LOVE that poem, thanks for sharing!
angie_21
Aithinne & Spot-on, you're right that people don't always sympathize or even realize skinny girls can be hurt too. I guess it's been so long since I was skinny enough to actually get those comments that I've kind of forgotten what it was like. I do remember going to the mall with my mom when I was 13 or so, trying on shirts and just being so upset about how skinny, gangly, and un-curvaceous I looked, but whenever I said anything about it, I would get holes glared in me from all directions. Even from girls who were practically the exact same weight as me or the same weight but with bigger boobs. I was feeling like shit, but if I complained about it, I swear people thought I was bragging or something. In my mind, the other girls were so lucky and perfect. Maybe they were feeling the same way towards me and I never knew it!

Last night we went out and saw some live music. There was a girl playing bass who was totally rockin out, she was tiny and had this giant bass guitar and had dreads and clearly wasn't the least bit concerned about appearing "sexy," just about playing her music and having fun. It was inspiring, and reminded me of what I used to be like before I had to dress professionally and worry about fitting into office-y clothes that are so boring and weren't made for my body type. I miss that so much, being able to have crazy hair and wear my jeans and t shirts and actually interact with people through my personality, not my appearance. It kinda sucks being "grown up." But it makes me happy to have this board again, because I know a lot of you girls don't let that kind of stuff drag you down, you still do what you want to do and wear what you want to wear. Teach me, please!
issy
I don't think it's the frequency or degree of body taunting that matters, or like the example below, one can even be compared with the other. I think it's the attitude that pointing out or mocking a girl for being skinny is somehow less offensive or not meant to be offensive because bones are en vogue right now. As a 5'3" size 00 "coathanger" I've written dooozzzzennsss of posts about this over the internet through the years so I'm not going to get all the way into it, but if some of the words that people use to describe skinny people were replaced with words denouncing fat people there would be an uproar. And rightfully so. I am not pro-skinny or pro-fat. I am anti-judgment. Denounce ALL forms of criticism towards another's body. There is no point in bickering over whether skinny girls or larger girls have it worse- it's two sides of the same coin. The issue is we, in all our size incarnations, are being made to feel unjustly ashamed of our own bodies, that we somehow aren't the 'right' size.

It's not whether big is comparable to small, it's the hypocrisy at play, or more accurately, the double standard. Or the idea that by dissing a skinny girl, larger people are just redressing the balance when in fact it's tipping the scales the other way, creating a rift where there should be a sense of compassion and sisterhood. Rather than creating a balance to the admittedly unrealistic media standard, it's creating a divide between big and small, fat and thin, and pretty much staying right on point with what the darker elements of society would have us keep doing- clawing at each other instead of banding together and saying as one, with one voice- You DO NOT have the right to tell me how my body should look!
issy
And to those who are claiming that skinny girls get picked on out of jealousy, I have to share a story that happened to me in my tiny wee high school years.

I walked into a bathroom and met two girls who hung out with my group of friends. These two girls had stuck out to me because they usually sat around making snarky comments about their friends, calling so and so 'marshmallow top' for the way her belly hung out of her pants and making comments that various people of a certain size had no right to wear a skirt that short or blah blah blah.

So I walk in and they say to me 'We were just talking about how much we hate people like you, people who can eat whatever they want and still stay skinny'. I tried to tell them that it was no walk in the park, the types of looks I got while shopping for underwear in the little girl's section, having to alter most of my clothes and the frequent, almost daily comments by complete strangers about how I needed to eat a cheeseburger, how I looked like I had cancer, how I needed to take some weight off them and put it on me, how fucking me must be like banging into a coathanger, etc.

Cut to me leaving, realizing I forgot my key, and going back to find them both in the stall, helping each other retch loudly into the toilet and cheering encouragement.

I have no wrap up observation about that, just that it sort of changed how I felt about people 'picking on' me.

As with any sort of insult towards a stranger, MOST ALWAYS the person is responding to themselves, NOT YOU. It is NOT JEALOUSY. It is dissatisfaction with themselves. Thinking that people who pick on you are just jealous is a very comforting way to look at it, but while there may be envy there in some cases, as with most thing body image is most frequently tied to deeper emotional issues. Saying someone is jealous of you makes it ABOUT YOU.

I think the safest and HEALTHIEST way to look at any type of derogatory comment is to understand- it is not about you. It is NOT about you. You did not cause this, it was there before you came. To paraphrase a cheesy 80's rock song, just because you seem to have fanned that person's flames does not mean you started the fire.

Let it roll off your fabulous back. Your fabulous bony, beefy, freckled, wrinkled, bloated, coat hanger, or WHATEVER back.
issy
And as one more clarification, I usually split hairs where the words 'jealousy' and 'envy' are concerned. I do believe some girls are envious of other girl's smallness, but that is NOT the driving force behind derisive comments or negative behavior. I myself am envious of other's bodies sometimes, but I don't try to tear someone else down because envy or jealousy isn't a motivating factor to spur someone towards nastiness. It's always, always dissatisfaction with themselves and insecurity that causes someone to lash out in a negative manner.

If I find myself envious of someone who has something I don't, I compliment. You see, it's not poor envy's fault. It's insecurity.

My best advice is to disconnect from the hurt, and realize that any negative attention you get, you are the target, not the motivation.
spot-on
Issy If I were gay and not already married I'd want to marry you just for this post alone!

QUOTE(issy @ Dec 4 2009, 06:49 PM) *
It's not whether big is comparable to small, it's the hypocrisy at play, or more accurately, the double standard. Or the idea that by dissing a skinny girl, larger people are just redressing the balance when in fact it's tipping the scales the other way, creating a rift where there should be a sense of compassion and sisterhood. Rather than creating a balance to the admittedly unrealistic media standard, it's creating a divide between big and small, fat and thin, and pretty much staying right on point with what the darker elements of society would have us keep doing- clawing at each other instead of banding together and saying as one, with one voice- You DO NOT have the right to tell me how my body should look!

nbdx0645
Very well said, Issy. I agree with Spot-on :3

Ahh, the jealous / envious snafu. Envy is to desire what someone else has. Jealousy is more action-based: You feel what someone else has is entitled to you. If you're envious, you want to be like the other. If you're jealous, you want to take what the other has for yourself.
nbdx0645
One other thing I've been meaning to bug you all about -- how can you tell if a bra is too big? Sometimes, with bras that have 'cups,' I can just fit into them when my arms are down. I don't fit them snugly, but there isn't a gap. When my arms are up, or I'm laying on my side, you can see my nipples and the cups are not full. Is this normal for small breasts? Should I be trying a different style of bra? *sigh* Bralettes are nice, and things that are 'stretchy' work well (like lace, mesh, and stretch-fabrics) but they don't really hide the high-beams, so they aren't usable for tee's. I use some moulded-cup bras from the pre-teen section, but they're a bit too small in the cup. What should I do? If someone has any links they can show me, I'd be delighted! And to the lurkers in the large breast thread....could you help me, perchance? What should I be looking for with a good-fitting bra?
spot-on
From all my recent bra research (I've been on a hunt for new bra's) it totally depends on the bra style. When you say "cups" I assume you mean the moulded cups, the ones that are thicker to avoid highbeams? If so those molded cup yep they will gape a little as you move as they aren't as form fitting due to the thicker cup. Pretty much I think all boobs tend to flop around (gravity) depending on how you are sitting/laying. I have one bra by hanes that is really well fitting keeps me secured no matter how I lie/sit, but it's ugly as sin. It's a trade off I think, I'd prefer pretty over 100% contained (well I'd prefer both, but haven't found it yet!).

things to look for in good fitting bra:

http://www.007b.com/bra-fitting.php is a good guide and the vids are good. Though don't use the measuring guide. Most guides say to add 4-5 inches to the band/ribcage measurement. That makes me a 34AA/36AAA seriously? The reason I've been bra shopping is cos the 34's don't fit. THe band is too loose, the shoulder straps won't tighten anymore and the band up my back and on the tightest setting! Measuring guides are just that, guides!!! I found that adding 1-2" was more accurate, then do the cup sizing from there. I'm a 32C on my left boob and a 32B on my right boob lol!


no gaping - from what I found the best way to check this is hands on hips and bend forward at the waist like you are picking a laundry basket off the floor. The breast should fill the cup with no gaping

back band - should be level all around. If higher at the back then go down a band size. If the front of the band between the cups lifts off the chest wall you need a smaller band also (or bigger cup size). The back band you should fasten on the loosest setting for a new bra, and be able to ONLY get 2-3 fingers width under it. Snug but not cutting off circulation

shoulder straps - should be snug but not dig in, the support should come from the band NOT the straps (if you are forever tightening the straps chances are the band is raising up cos it's too loose, go down a band size)

Can't remember much else, just that bra measurements and bra's can vary wildly brand to brand and style to style so ALWAYS try it on! Even if you try one on, and like it but want it in a different color, always try that one on too! The smallest differences in sewing the item together can make a HUGE difference to the fit trust me! Plus they can get labeled wrong!

If you have one boob bigger than the other, opt to fit the bigger boob, the pad or tighten shoulder strap more on smaller side. Most of us do have odd sizes so this is normal. Push ups work well for odd sized boobs



QUOTE(nbdx0645 @ Dec 5 2009, 01:28 PM) *
One other thing I've been meaning to bug you all about -- how can you tell if a bra is too big? Sometimes, with bras that have 'cups,' I can just fit into them when my arms are down. I don't fit them snugly, but there isn't a gap. When my arms are up, or I'm laying on my side, you can see my nipples and the cups are not full. Is this normal for small breasts? Should I be trying a different style of bra? *sigh* Bralettes are nice, and things that are 'stretchy' work well (like lace, mesh, and stretch-fabrics) but they don't really hide the high-beams, so they aren't usable for tee's. I use some moulded-cup bras from the pre-teen section, but they're a bit too small in the cup. What should I do? If someone has any links they can show me, I'd be delighted! And to the lurkers in the large breast thread....could you help me, perchance? What should I be looking for with a good-fitting bra?

anarch
I've been away from these boards for the past month, but I just wanted to nth everybody who says that you're awesome, buttercups, for rising above the crap that all those assholes have tried to dump on you. Sheesh.

QUOTE(issy @ Dec 4 2009, 10:49 PM) *
I am not pro-skinny or pro-fat. I am anti-judgment. Denounce ALL forms of criticism towards another's body.

it's creating a divide between big and small, fat and thin, and pretty much staying right on point with what the darker elements of society would have us keep doing- clawing at each other instead of banding together and saying as one, with one voice- You DO NOT have the right to tell me how my body should look!


Amen! In future when someone says something disparaging or jealous about my shape, hope you don't mind that I'm totally stealing what you just said.
nbdx0645
Hey Spot-on...for the bras I have in question, I meant this style: http://preview.tinyurl.com/yg2ocbw I'm going to use the "bend at the waist" test that you said. I also have a bunch of bras that simply don't fit. I think I should just throw them out. Also, I'm searching for a strapless bra, that's where my biggest need is. I don't want to get fitted by Victoria's Secret, I had a bad experience the last time I was in their store. I should find a bra shop in my area, though I'm nervous they won't be able to accommodate my size.

Edit: I found one, and it's close to my work. Maybe I'll go on Monday.
spot-on
hahaha too funny, I'm going for a strapless bra soon. The one I have barely fits anymore, too loose in the band. I bought a few boob tube type tops that I need a decent strapless to contain and lift whilst the tops flatten. I am in the process of throwing out a load of older bras that not longer fit.

Can't really tell about that bra, but I know similar things that you mentioned happen to me when I'm laying down etc. the boobs shift in the cups. I wonder if this is a sign of the band being too big? It seems to happen more in my 34's than the 32's

any bigger boobed ladies got any advice?
ASC
Hello ladies! I am a long time lurker who loves this forum. I posted once before, almost 2 years ago, asking for help finding small nursing bras. You ladies came through for me and I'm happy to report that I was able to get 3 bras that (mostly) fit and served me well.

My daughter recently weaned, just after her 2nd birthday, and, well, a combined 39 months of nursing 2 children has taken a toll on my little bobbies. It's not true that little boobs don't sag. They just start pointing up instead of down. wink.gif I've never worn a properly fitting bra, since I just went with what I could find (cheaply) at big stores, and I decided that it was time to get a proper fitting bra. I'm 32 for goodness sake! Yesterday I went to Lula Lu, which I found through this forum. I was excited and nervous, since bra shopping always leads to tears. I was measured and had to face the reality that I'm acutually a 32AA. *sigh* It was nice shopping at a place where 1) they didn't look at me like I was abnormal when they discovered my size, 2) I wasn't directed to the childrens' area, and 3) they actually had things that fit me. Unfortunatley I still didn't find many bras that worked. I'm short (not quite 5' 1") so the straps on a couple were too long; some styles looked good initially, but made my boobs look squished in weird ways when I had a shirt on; I'm not comfortable having my nipples show, so I need some padding to prevent headlights, while on the other hand, I'm finally at a place where I'm ready to give up the padding I've always worn. Public opinion be damned, I'm not going to pretend I have something I don't when it just makes me uncomfortable and makes me feel like a fraud. I have a husband who loves me the way I am and have nursed 2 children - I shouldn't be ashamed of my little boobies!

That's me talking on a good day though. Buttercups, I could have written just about all of your posts, word for word. Though I haven't had quite as many people be so damn obnoxious and rude (& abusive, imo) to my face. Sometimes I think you're actually posting for me. wink.gif I'm here silently cheering you on in your positive posts and sending you silent, empathetic hugs on your bad days. That really goes for all of you!

Anyway, the shopping experience was better than usual, and I didn't even cry until I was out of the store. biggrin.gif I only found 1 bralette that I fet was good enough http://lulalu.com/search.asp?Mode=Product&...1&PageNum=2 It's amazing how different a bra that actually fits feels! This one will be good for my everyday life, running after kids, etc. but I'd really like to find something that looks more like a proper bra, and less like a tiny cami (this one goes over your head, which doesn't make me feel very grownup). I discovered that I really like bralettes (didn't think I would since I'm used to padding), so pretty! But, they were all too thin for the headlights. Has anyone found pretty bralettes that have slight padding - more than an extra fabric layer, but less than a molded cup? That seems like the ideal bra to me, something a lot of women would love, yet it feels like I'm asking for the stars when I see the options that are actually out there.

Big hugs to you all, to thank you for the support you've given me, without even knowing it. Maybe someday I'll start posting regularly....
spot-on
Oooh if anyone has info on this I'd be interested too! I use the fruit of the loom ones for sports bra's sometimes, but headlight city if there is a slightest chill!

Great post ASC hope you post more often!

QUOTE(ASC @ Dec 6 2009, 10:25 AM) *
Has anyone found pretty bralettes that have slight padding - more than an extra fabric layer, but less than a molded cup? That seems like the ideal bra to me, something a lot of women would love, yet it feels like I'm asking for the stars when I see the options that are actually out there.

angie_21
Hi ASC! I love that bralette in black! I might even order it online...

I having a similar bralette problem - mine are over the head, cami style, and it's so nice to not have hooks and straps digging in everywhere, but I feel the band isn't tight enough since it has to be stretchy enough to go over the head.. nothing's ever perfect, I guess. I need a nice, non-underwire, unpadded or lightly padded bra. That's all. why the hell does every single bra at la senza have to have underwire in it? who actually likes that? It's supposed to be bad for your boobs because it blocks some circulation or something (same goes for the push-ups, unfortunately)

OK, I know headlights can be a problem, but am I the only one here who loves wearing unlined bras because you're suddenly walking around with twice as much, um, sensitivity to the outside world? every time I accidentally brush my arm against my boob, or my jacket, or whatever, I'm reminded that I have these nice cute, sensitive nipples that have been hiding behind padding for way too long now.

edited for bad spelling mistakes lol
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