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angie_21
Buttercups, I can't say it better than Aithinne said in terms of confidence and your body. well done. But when it comes to sex itself... I could walk around naked in front of my boyfriend 24 hours and he would certainly never ask me to put some clothes on! I am a bit of an exhibitionist tho, so I've never regretted being naked anytime. I have regretted having sex with one ex, even if it was countless times over 3 years, sometimes I still feel gross just to remember it ever happened. But that was about our dysfunctional relationship, not about my body. How on earth could being naked get old? It's one of the most liberating and compfortable feelings you can have (when you are in a safe and happy place, that is!) Keeping it interesting in the bedroom is about the way you feel about eachother, and the way you make eachother feel, the things you do and say, and keeping it fun. And there are always new types of lingerie to buy wink.gif Guys can feel that they are missing out on amazing sex, sure, but that is more about the passion, adventure, and um, they like getting blowjobs and keeping the lights on. I can see them feeling like they're missing out on something if they don't get that. I would feel like I was missing out if I wasn't getting the same in return lol
spot-on
QUOTE(buttercups @ Jan 6 2010, 01:23 PM) *
I always feel like I look different from other girls like I'm transgendered or something bc my ex has made comments about "down there" too, so I feel like no part of me looks like a regular girl, but my bf now says that he won't think that way.


Wow your ex sounds like a right wanker! Seriously no wonder you have body issues with that guy as your ex! Buttercups you dumped him so YAY YOU! Obviously the guy you are with now is of sound mind as it seems like he's encouraging you to become the woman the other guy never let you be (due to his psychological/emotion control). Let go girl, enjoy your body, trust me it's the best thing ever!

ps, no two 'down there' parts are the same, just as no two penis's are the same. Variety afterall is the spice of life!
nbdx0645
I agree with Spot-On. I dated a guy who made a big fuss about my small breasts (and made a big fuss when he was dating a girl with large breasts) and he was one of the most sexually fucked-up guys on the planet. I've found that the guys who love all versions of the female body are also the most sexually advanced, more understanding about feminine issues, and will allow you to age beautifully. :3

I've been doing some reflecting on this forum lately, and I've noticed that my issues are less about my breasts and more about how I perceive myself, and how I think others perceive me. I've been relying on my breasts to communicate my femininity, sexuality, and personality....when really, that is only one way to communicate your concept of 'self.' Large breasts can act like a megaphone to communicate femininity, so it they were very desirable to me. Also, most of my communicating was in the form of apology. ("I'm sorry I look like this, you must be upset...") My body language was hunching over, tugging at clothing, and shying away from physical interaction. No wonder I didn't feel feminine, I wasn't allowing myself to feel like a woman. I was punishing myself, even though, I am a fully-functioning female.

I like how we're trying to approach this topic from a holistic viewpoint -- from outward appearance, to physical stereotypes, to sexuality and anatomy, and our relationships with others. Let's continue this support in 2010 and beyond, for all of boob-kind. Thanks so much for all your help. I read my old posts and cringe at them a bit. tongue.gif I don't think I'm out of the woods yet, but progress has been made.
hcbeck
bc...

Speaking from the male point of view, I've been very scared of baring myself for the first time with a new girlfriend. I felt like rehearsing apologies for the body (mine) that she had ended up being naked with. None were needed.

Even though it is very hard to make that leap, you'll be amazed at how being naked with your love will make you feel.

P.S. Pardon my interruption: I'm teetotal, so I don't have alcohol to help me get past my body-shyness, so the posts from this group have been especially valuable to me.
Aithinne
QUOTE(nbdx0645 @ Jan 7 2010, 03:55 PM) *
I've been doing some reflecting on this forum lately, and I've noticed that my issues are less about my breasts and more about how I perceive myself, and how I think others perceive me. I've been relying on my breasts to communicate my femininity, sexuality, and personality....when really, that is only one way to communicate your concept of 'self.' Large breasts can act like a megaphone to communicate femininity, so it they were very desirable to me. Also, most of my communicating was in the form of apology. ("I'm sorry I look like this, you must be upset...") My body language was hunching over, tugging at clothing, and shying away from physical interaction. No wonder I didn't feel feminine, I wasn't allowing myself to feel like a woman. I was punishing myself, even though, I am a fully-functioning female.

This is very insightful, nbdx. You have it exactly right, I think. My issues were also about how I perceived myself and how I thought others perceived me. But I think now all I'm struggling with is how others, or at least those people who I would like to see me in a certain way, perceive me. I want to be seen as a sexy adult female, and have been rebelling in my own way against my immature, cute, unwomanly stereotype based on a look I have no control over. It's frustrating at the very least, maddening at the most.

I'm coming to grips that surely, some guy out there will be able to see past the outer shell on first glance to the real me, without me feeling like I have to act outrageously to try to put the idea in his head that I'm not a prude/pedofile-fodder. I think these issues we women of this board seem to deal with are ones that we are frustrated with because we can't change them.. Unless we go to a surgeon and get plastic shoved in our chests, or in my case, unless we somehow can replace our faces with sexy ones. It makes us completely crazy because the boobs, the adolescent-look, are not like deciding to put on a different outfit for the day. The only thing we can do, if we do not want to resort to unnatural and drastic measures, is to change how we feel about them. In a way, I do think changing our outlook on our problems is much more powerful anyway, and yields more rewarding results. It's just damn hard to do, but worth it in the end. You are right, nbdx- we punish ourselves needlessly. We need to realize that we need to be our own advocates and stop punishing ourselves for something that needs no punishment in the first place.

hcbeck, I'm glad that even men can get something positive from this group. I think of this site as a pillar of positive, when our lives feel so steeped in negatives.

On a happier, less serious note, I have more news about my hot friend. Tuesday night, I was hanging out at work after my shift (he works the night shift there) and doing our general verbal seduction, which has been going on for several months. I asked him what he would do if I went into the back and had some solo fun right then and there, while he was in the next room... tee hee, so naughty. He seemed disbelieving that I would do such a thing, so I told him that I would only do it if he wasn't in the same room. I did, however, say it was okay for him to be in the next room with the door open and listen. So that's what I did. I've never done that at work before, and I've never done that with someone practically there with me, and it was pretty damn hot. After I went back to the room he was in, I sat in his lap and we had a fun heavy petting session. He had told me earlier that his New Year's resolution was to be more on time to things, since he usually came into work about 15 minutes late all the time. I told him that I would have solo fun in the back at 9:30 on Thursday (today), and if he was on time, he could listen. But if he was late, he would miss out.. Teehee. This is turning out to be a whole lot of fun.
chicaloca
Wow, Aithinne, that sounds really hot and sexy! Yay!! Sounds like so much fun, who hasn't fantasized about having "fun" in the workplace? So naughty, keep enjoying it, that's great!
discowombat
Hi everyone! I read almost daily but don't usually say much. First, I just want to say all of you have done a lot to let me know I'm not alone in my body issues and to help me appreciate myself exactly the way I am made! I have my good days and my bad days but I'm proud to say that in these past few years the good days are far outnumbering the bad.

Anyways, I have been thinking of doing belly dancing not only as exercise (I don't get off my bum much) but also as a celebration of my femininity. I feel like I'm often viewed as a child due to my petite & thin build and I'm hoping this will continue to help me build confidence in myself. I have a dvd I've started but am thinking of trying classes. Has anyone else here done this? Was it a good experience? Did you feel self conscious being in class with other women?
buttercups
First of all, WOW Aithinne, you are one hot, sexy thang! Damn! Excuse me while I live vicariously through your hot encounters, you are definitely not the "little girl" that you seem to think yourself to be, you are one wild and sexy woman, I love it!

Yea.. I do need to get over this issue with my ex and regretting letting him see me naked and all that crap. Anna K, your comfort in your own skin and your dancing and all the wonderful things that you do are very inspiring, I want to take some of that stuff up, it sounds like so much fun (and a great confidence boost!).

Thanks Spot-on, variety is the spice of life! And Angie21, you're right our guys should never get bored of seeing us naked, I don't know why I think that he will it sounds dumb when I say it out loud haha.

Wow nbdx0645, I'm always amazed at how much the things you say sound just like the things in my head. Especially this part: "I was punishing myself, even though, I am a fully-functioning female." I've struggled with the exact same things and ideas. For whatever reason, I practically convinced myself that I am not truly female- I convinced myself in my own messed up head that I was born transgendered or something bc I have small breasts and a larger clit, even though I've always menstruated regularly and everything else. I even asked my mother about it, who said I was born all female, and I still couldn't believe it, thinking she was sparing my feelings or something. I just never felt like a real woman, and I realize that like you, I wasn't allowing myself to feel like one, so I'm trying to convince myself now that I am 100% woman, small breasts, big clit, and all!

Thanks hcbeck, it's nice to have another perspective!

Discowombat, good for you! Go out and celebrate your femininity! Ive never done anything like that, but I have been exercising a lot more lately and running and do feel alot better about myself bc of it!

2 little side stories that made me think of you guys, one's good and one's bad. The bad one first, cause I'd rather end on a good note! I was watching The Real World on Mtv the other night and the guys on the show were having a guy's night out, and they were like "no A cups allowed tonight boys!"- ugh I hate crap like that! I'm trying to get away from that kind of negativity, but it def made me feel bad in a stupid way.

The other one is that if anyone's seen the new VS swimsuit catalogue, there a quite a few girls in there right now with very small breasts, like AA cups, modeling swimsuits! They look hot and it made me feel really good. Maybe they're finally getting it that women are their consumers and we don't like to be forced to stare at giant plastic melons shoved in our face while we're trying to shop. Maybe the tides are starting to turn in our favor....


strongirl
Ditto, Aithinne, even if nothing else happens with this guy, that's some top shelf fantasy material for future reference...your future AND mine, LOL!

Buttercups, when I read what you posted about that show Real World, I couldn't help but immediately flip it - a bunch of girls go out and say "Yeah, girls, no guys under 8 inches tonight!" Blech. How totally dehumanizing (and erotic buzz kill) no matter which standpoint you view it from.

A funny thought I've had a couple of times when reading some of the posts about not feeling like a "real woman" without big curves - when I was in my twenties I went through a phase where I cross-dressed a lot, esp. for work. I would wear pants, button down shirts with ties, jackets, and flat oxford shoes. I also had really short, buzzed punk hair at the time (now my hair is down past my shoulder blades, LOL). Rather than feeling inferior for being "unfeminine" I felt empowered, like I was expressing myself and giving the finger to sex-role stereotypes and pressure to conform to someone else's idea of what I should look like. Oddly enough, I still got hit on! I don't know if it would be fun or helpful to any of you to try cross-dressing - sort of a "reverse psychology" thing? - but I enjoyed it. Just throwin' it out there in case anyone finds it useful.

crinoline
Hi ladies! Long time no see huh?
I'm amazed at the positive progress everyone's made in here!! We rock!

discowombat- I highly recommend bellydance for exactly that reason - it is a dance form that celebrates femininity of a natural kind. I was also worried before my first class if I would be the only flat chested petite girl, but once I got there it didn't matter. There were woman of every shape and size (seriously-we ranged from sizes 2 to 22!) and they were all beautiful. After the second week I even stopped wearing a bra and just wore a camisole, and i wasn't the only one! I definitely developed more sexual and just general confidence from my years of bellydance. it was not only great exercise, but a great life experience.
Also, our instructor and several of the girls were Muslim, and so there were some strict no-boys-allowed type rules, everything was focused on us and not "sexy" moves to please your man. It was awesome!
strongirl
Since it's been relatively quiet in here lately, I think I'll toss something out that bothers me from time to time and see if any of you relate or have perspectives that might help me.

I have some trouble sorting out my feelings about implants. Not about getting them, heaven forbid, but how I feel about other womens' implants. Like that recent post from issy (sp?), I want to reach a place where I like every breast I see, no exceptions. But honestly, I have a pretty negative reaction to most implants - I have feelings of revulsion over the scars, capsular contraction, visible implants under the skin, hard texture, and how painful the really large ones look. At the same time, I feel guilty about those reactions. I actually feel ungrateful and mean! Those women got implants to be visually pleasing and attractive, they went through a lot of pain, risk, and expense, and the least the rest of us can do is be appreciative and enjoy them! But I usually don't. Occasionally I get turned on by them, I get aroused by the idea of a woman being willing to promote her sexuality in such an extreme way or something like that, and once in a while I see implants that I find visually appealing. But much more often I have those feelings of revulsion, followed by guilt at being unappreciative, add in a fear that it would seem like "sour grapes" or jealousy if I voice my dislike of them, and the end result is this uncomfortable feeling of unresolved "icky-ness".

I really dislike it when women criticize other women over appearance, regardless of what feature is being criticized for what quality. So I don't think things like "women who get implants are shallow and competitive", or anything else over-reaching and dismissive is in order here. And my feelings are a separate issue from wondering why some men like them - that's their deal, not mine. I am approaching this as a bi-sexual woman, who likes her own body, has spent a lot of time in clothes-optional settings, and enjoys porn. But when I encounter women with implants (in life or on film), I have to wrestle with the feelings above.

Any insight, corroboration, criticism? Anything I'm missing that I should incorporate into my mental monologue/process? How do you guys feel when you see them?

Aithinne
When I look at implants, I just feel sad that the woman felt she needed them, or even that she wanted them. I think that's just because I don't think of implants like I do, say, a tattoo. To me, tattoos are more often gotten as decoration, but not because the person feels insecure without a tattoo. But I really cannot believe that women who get implants get them for decoration. That might be a side effect, but I think women who get implants get them because of some kind of insecurity, because they feel like just being themselves is not good enough, that making their boobs bigger will make people like them more, make men want them, help them get the attention they crave. So I think things like tattoos and breast implants have completely different core motivations. It makes me sad that the woman feels her natural body is insufficient, and it makes me sad to add that woman to a long list of women giving in to a culture of 'perfection'. On the other hand, I can understand why women get them after they lose a breast to cancer, but unless they tell you that that was the reason they got implants, you won't know.
hcbeck
QUOTE(strongirl @ Jan 13 2010, 04:27 PM) *
I have some trouble sorting out my feelings about implants.

How do you guys feel when you see them?


The only positive thing I can say about implants is that they primarily look best when they are clothed. I have to avoid thinking of what the breasts might look like naked, their unnaturalness is usually not to my taste.

i.e. breasts that look a lot better clothed. That description might also apply to some natural breasts, as well as other body parts on both genders.

Implants sometimes prompt me into being judgmental. If I fall into thinking that implants come from a position of insecurity, I remind myself that I spend time in the gym trying to look better, my way of getting that self-confidence.

(Whereas I think some tattoos are used as a way of freezing time...)
spot-on
I had a post written out then deleted it

Just wanted to vent that sometimes men can be absolute idiots! Especially annoying when it ends up being the one you married!
buttercups
How come you can't watch TV these days without boobs being the topic of conversation in every single episode, I'm done watching TV. It was how I relaxed at the end of a hard day, but lately it just pisses me off more and more. Grr.

Spot-on, I second that amen! (But I hope everything works out ok for you and the hubby-they all act like idiots at some point, I think it's just inevitable...)
discowombat
Thanks for the belly dancing advice ladies! Looks like I'm stuck with videos for now though. The only teacher within an hour drive of me moved to the city. Guess they don't get much business out here in the boondocks blink.gif Anyways I'm going to make my best effort to stick with it!
anna k
Aithinne, I agree with buttercups, you are not the "little girl" you believed yourself to be. You are a real woman, with incredible magnetism and flirtiness to boot.

I don't have much opinion on breast implants, just the big ones that stretch the skin look like they hurt.

strongirl, you probably had an androgynous thing going that made you look very attractive and interesting. If I had small breasts, I'd like to work that kind of look. Sometimes I dress down too to feel more hidden in my clothes, not wanting to look noticeable. Like in the street, I would wear baggy slacks, a big coat that covers my body, a hoodie, and just stuff that makes me look more like a scrappy young kid than a mature young woman. Other times, I like to play up my femininity in leggings and fitted shirts, but can feel just as comfortable in shapeless, big clothing whenever I just want to blend in.

buttercups, dancing gives me a sensual and happy feeling, it's a complete mind/body experience, and the next day I can still feel the routine in my body, like muscle memory.
angie_21
strongirl, I do have strong feelings about implants, I think, but I usually ignore them. I feel it's none of my business since it has nothing to do with me and doesn't really affect me. I know girls do it for a variety of reasons, and I know some of those reasons are not good, and I wouldn't like it if my friends had them done. I think of them like iphones and expensive cars - I'd never get one, I guess they make some people feel good about themselves bu it won't satisy their souls, I think it's a waste of money. If anyone's interested in a male pespective, my boyfriend says he wouldn't dump me if I ever got implants, because he loves me and it's my body, but he would be very sad and very disappointed and would try his best to convince me not to. he thinks it would be a lot of damage done to a perfectly good body and doesn't understand why someone would want to take nice tits and make them ugly.

In terms of cross-dressing, I think I mentioned many many months ago that I am most comfortable in my workboots and cargoes. I wear feminine work clothes, but they certainly aren't sexy and I feel 100% like a HUMAN, not a woman, when I'm dressed in my work clothes and doing fieldwork. it's very liberating and I'd do it most of my life if I could. It also makes me so happy to get into real feminine clothes at the end of a project, that I just don't give a rat's ass what I look like.
Aithinne
Cross-dressing is fun, though I don't think I've necessarily cross-dressed, per se. I live out in the country, and when the weather gets cold and the snow starts piling up, I wear some coveralls and a rabbit fur hat. I look insanely rediculous, but I love it simply because it looks rediculous. But, it's warm as hell and if I were stranded somewhere, that's what I'd rather be wearing. I guess it's just fun saying to hell with it, I'm going to dress how I want! It is very liberating, and always a conversation starter.

I also LOVE putting on guy's clothes, but I think it's just because it makes me laugh to see how small I am in their clothes. When I was little, I didn't try on my mom's clothes, I tried on my dad's clothes. I could fit my whole body in one of his pant legs, and his shoes were about twice as big as my feet, and his shirts went down below my knees. It made for a funny outfit, that's for sure.

On another fun note, my FWB was working after me a few days ago, so I left a note in the cash drawer saying that I was somewhere on the first floor and to come find me. Lol. Well, he found me alright (and didn't even bother counting the drawer first! Lol) and we had fun. He fucked my mouth while fingering me. Ah, yum. Maybe I should start posting in the portions thread, now that I'm finally getting some.
nbdx0645
It's hard to say how I feel about implants calmly. It's also hard for me to say that other women's implants don't cause me emotional pain, because my mom's did. Implants homogenize the female form into something that lacks reality. Also, it's a big health risk. My mom was talking to me about getting her implants removed because they can't perform an accurate scan on her heart. Logic says it isn't worth it. I'm still a bit bitter when others say that it's okay for reconstruction surgery, because regrowth can hide behind the implant, making the abnormals cells impossible to detect. Staying beautiful is more important than being safe, but this is nothing new...right? Perhaps my judgment is clouded because I don't have much to lose. It's not like I'm ever going to win "tits of the year" and implants aren't going to change that, either.
discowombat
I'm not sure how I feel about reconstruction either. I can understand why people would want it if they had average to large breasts to begin with and could also understand why those with smaller chests might see it as their chance to have what they didn't have before (depending on their point of view regarding their physical composition). I do have to say that I have massive amounts of respect for women who choose not to undergo reconstructive surgery and get a beautiful chest tattoo instead. http://www.mentalfloss.com/blogs/wp-conten...45marciapam.jpg I think it shows strength.




QUOTE(nbdx0645 @ Jan 16 2010, 12:36 AM) *
It's hard to say how I feel about implants calmly. It's also hard for me to say that other women's implants don't cause me emotional pain, because my mom's did. Implants homogenize the female form into something that lacks reality. Also, it's a big health risk. My mom was talking to me about getting her implants removed because they can't perform an accurate scan on her heart. Logic says it isn't worth it. I'm still a bit bitter when others say that it's okay for reconstruction surgery, because regrowth can hide behind the implant, making the abnormals cells impossible to detect. Staying beautiful is more important than being safe, but this is nothing new...right? Perhaps my judgment is clouded because I don't have much to lose. It's not like I'm ever going to win "tits of the year" and implants aren't going to change that, either.

angie_21
Nbdx, my mom had reconstructive surgery so I do feel the need to say why she made the decision to get reconstruction... She had some benign cell growth that the doc just wasn't comfortable with, a biopsy supposedly indicated they should do a masectomy just in case though it wasn't conclusive, and then after the surgery, when they analysed what they removed they discovered it hadn't been necessary. Honestly I would have sued, doctors are just too easer to over-treat and push people through the system instead of doing it right the first time.

It was a really, really difficult decision for her and reconstruction is extremely painful because unlike regular implants, there is already scar tissue in the skin and there is also absolutely no breast tissue to stuff the implant into. I guess it's conceivable that further growth could happen behind the implant, especially with a partial masectomy, but I mean, with a full masectomy all the breast tissie is just gone so I don't know where more cancer cells could pop up from. For her it had much less to do with being beautiful because she had no intention of going through that kind of pain for vanity, but it was lifestyle. She had horrible trouble buying bras, wearing a sponge to go swimming, her clothes didn't fit right, and she didn't feel right.
nbdx0645
Angie_21, that just sucks. I'm sorry that your mom had to go through that. I really do hope that things go well for her in the future, and that she's still checking for any signs of recurrence; it can never be guaranteed that 100% of the tissue is excised, even if it is a full mastectomy. Cancer can still party around/in scar tissue or migrate to other regions of the body. Sucks.

I don't want to piss anyone off about my anti-silicone stand. (Why does this feel like I'm speaking at a pro-life/pro-choice debate?) Again, the joy with your body is that it's yours, and I don't think there should be a law against what you can and cannot do to your body, and I'm not going to have seething hatred toward anybody who bumps me around a bit about it. Writing on --

I'm sure your mom didn't do the things mine did with her implants. My mom flaunted her fake tits in my face and pretended they were real, and that mine were a cause for concern. She took me to doctors so I could ask why I wasn't developing. She would tell me not to wear clothes that showed my breastbone because I'd feel self-conscious, and she promised me implants at age 20. She had me brainwashed that life would only be good if I had noticeable breasts, and that I would be well-liked, I'd have a great life, I wouldn't miss out on opportunities, and I'd finally be sexy. Hell, I'd finally be normal.

My biggest beef with implants is that they have a 90% failure rate after ten years, it's major surgery, and there is a hypothesis that implants can cause crazy immunological issues (lupus, fibromyalgia.) Cancer cells can develop and hide behind an implant (like ninjas.) Also, you can be dropped from your insurance or refused to renew insurance for getting implants: http://www.breastimplantinfo.org/what_know...re_you_get.html My mom can't get a decent scan on her heart because a fake titty is clouding the scan. Sad thing is, she doesn't have enough money (15k+) to get them removed since my parents split. I'm wondering if there's a way someone could take her case pro bono. After writing this, I conclude that I'm not against people getting their breasts back to size they once were, I'm against potentially dangerous methods of achieving this task. I'm also against women getting giant halved-off cantaloupes shoved under the skin and going "They're real LOLZ."
strongirl
nbdx, no one should have to endure the abuse you did from your mom on this issue. That's just awful and I deeply admire you for seeing it for what it was and dealing with it in a healthy way.

I am not an implant fan by any stretch of the imagination and I won't be getting any myself. But I would like to not have such strong negative reactions to women who do and to even be able to appreciate and enjoy them, since presumably that's why they got them. I know there are lots of implanted women like your mom, who I would not want to interact with at all. But I've known other women who have had them who are nice, normal, likeable. I don't think it's a moral litmus test. At the very least I'd like to be able to enjoy porn when there are implants in the picture but I find it very difficult cuz they are just too gross to me.

Maybe I should just give it up and hate them wholeheartedly and write off the women who get them as sell-outs or bimbos, but I haven't been able to get to that point either. It's just not that simple.

Also, on your concern about pissing people off in here, we mix it up in here from time to time but I think I can honestly say it has never gotten ugly or destructive or hurtful. Nobody's perfect or perfectly wise and the fact that we can call each other on our shit is one of the great things about this forum.
angie_21
nbdx, I love that people are comfortable to say what they feel here, and I know it can be hard to say exactly what you mean when it's about things that touch us so closely to our deepest insecurities and emotions. But I think everyone does a great job of respecting eachother's feelings and thoughts here so that we can all say what we think. I am also very anti-surgery (of any plastic type) but when it comes to reconstruction for people who have had a part of their body taken away, I think it's very different. I wish we lived in a world where no one would have to feel different because they look physically different... but if I lost a part of my body I feel is very important to me and how I see myself, I would be willing to go thrugh a lot of pain and risk to have it back. I am just happy my mom is OK, it helps that she is low risk for further complications, and further complications are covered by healthcare. That's the beauty of living in Canada.. major surgeries are covered no matter what your medical history, and even private healthcare is almost guaranteed to cover you if you get it through work or school. not so much if you can't get it through work and have to buy in by yourself tho, but overall, we are very lucky for these things.
angie_21
and also, I forgot the second half of what I was going to say, nbdx, it is very different what you had to go through with your mom. I remember your earlier posts about her, and clearly she has problems that she hasn't been able to deal with, and you are very strong for recognizing that and taking care of yourself. I have no idea what it would be like to have that kind of relationship, and would never judge you for your opinions because of it! You have seen firsthand the kind of harm the plastic world can do to people and it's no wonder you have strong feelings about it!
nbdx0645
Cool. I was worried to post because I don't want to disrupt such a nurturing community. I guess I'm so used to defending myself on forums!

I think that's what's worse than losing breast size is losing your milk ducts and nipple...those are the working components of the breast, and the surrounding tissue is stored fat. Even if implants re-fill the skin, you're still without ducts and a nipple. :/

I'm so picky with what I put in me (food, penis, what-have-you) that I wouldn't be able to risk silicone poisoning and implant rejection. If someone I cared about got them after a reconstruction, I'd tell them how I felt about it and point them to a few websites that have personal stories about explantation an the events prior; but I wouldn't hold it against them after that. I know I snap at my mom when she complains of joint ache and her heart, but I get so mad about how she lied to me, and how she didn't care about my feelings when I found out about her implants. She never really apologized, she just denied that she did those things for a few months. After a while, she said she was mentally ill when she did those things.
anarch
(((nbdx)))


discowombat, thanks for posting the pic of chest tattoos. I didn't know about them. They're gorgeous!

I don't suppose women with them would be allowed into public swimming pools without some sort of top on...

hang on, maybe they'd let them in with tattoos like the 2nd one pictured here, the butterfly-ish bikini! I'm so impressed.
karategrrl
Also, you can be dropped from your insurance or refused to renew insurance for getting implants: http://www.breastimplantinfo.org/what_know...re_you_get.html My mom can't get a decent scan on her heart because a fake titty is clouding the scan.

Wow, um, this speaks volumes, doesn't it? Doctors (who want to make money and fund their vacation to Aruba or wherever) will say implants are safe, but if the insurance companies may drop you, they obviously know something.

Oh, and nbdx, I agree about the most important part of the breasts being the milk ducts and the nipples. The nips are, seriously, the focal point of the breast. cool.gif

BTW, I don't think those "tattoos" are really tattoos--they look much more like body painting--but they are still fab!! Hey, can we go public with just body paint? Sports Illustrated did it a few years back, and they got away with it, so I guess it is enough of a body covering to go out without being arrested.
enfermera
karategrrl, i'm with you on the body paint! whenever i visit a theme park, i love looking at the people who've gotten their faces painted, and wish that it was a socially acceptable thing in our culture; just that little extra bit of creativity and color.

i don't have any drama or profound thoughts to share today; i just have been thinking how adorable my aa's are, and what a shame it is that there's no one in my life who gets to enjoy them! wub.gif hope everyone's doing well.
nbdx0645
Hi Busties,
Speaking of fake boobs -- I was driving to the garden center after work (I have an orchid that needs repotting) and I came across the most peculiar billboard advertisement.

One side was "when life hands you lemons...." and on a yellow background there were two little lemons. The other side, says "UPGRADE!!" with a picture of two large, ripe watermelon on a lime green background. It was a sign for a plastic surgeon's office in my local town. He does a lot of advertising over the radio, as well, and it sounds like he's preying on the insecurities of women. For example, one commercial had the tone of "at your interview, during the first 30 seconds the interviewers are making critical judgments on your appearance...." I was thinking "WHOA! How desperate are you, sir?" I'd like to go to their 'promotional' meetings and say "You're all fine, really, find a good tailor -- not a surgeon!"

I think the sign is in bad taste, but what do you all think? I work in a marketing group so it was a very talked-about piece of advertising. My one coworker asked me my opinion and I looked down my shirt and shrugged. After we were talking about it, I should have said, "I don't really like fake fruit...I hear it doesn't taste good" (darn, so witty!) I might have to take a photo to post (or actually, I think it would be more fun to deface the billboard) biggrin.gif I mean HEY! I'd be stoked to have lemons, but cherries will do.
strongirl
nbdx, I totally agree with you, that ad is in bad taste at the very least. It's sort of ironic - I was reading a novel a few months ago "Water for Elephants" (quite good btw) and the protagonist describes the small breasts of the woman he is desperately in love with as something like "fitting in my hand perfectly, like lemons". That sprung to mind immediately when I read your post.

What offends me about the ad is that it's a play on the expression "when life hands you lemons, make lemonade", meaning when life deals you negatives, turn them into positives. I don't consider my small breasts to be a negative, thank you very much. The lemonade I'm making is by enjoying them for their own sweet small selves, and sharing them with others who are also appreciative. He can take his giant watermelons and shove them up his tight greedy ass.

I did love your comment about the fake fruit - you ARE witty! biggrin.gif

spot-on
Hi Busties
Sorry for not popping in lately but uber busy and just haven't had as much time online as I'd like, but great to see the board still active.

I'm doing fine with my boobies, the latest bra's I got in Dec from VS have given me a boost under clothing. Also I've been braless a fair bit in the house. I did have a doubtful moment in the gym changing rooms when I was getting changed from the showers and seeing all these boobs bigger than mine, but they were ALL different. I guess it makes me realize that we all have insecurities, sometimes mine is my boobs sometimes it's other things. Other women may covet our tiny booblets smile.gif

ndbx that ad sounds terrible, seriously lemons? Love the fake fruit analogy, gee hate when we think of witty retorts after the fact. We don't have lemons! Lemons are such a negative, not only the lemonade quote but think of crappy cars, they are called lemons, anything inferior is usually called a lemon. Then I just think how desperate are the plastic surgeons to pray on womens insecurities like that? And the desperation of the women that fall for it? They have a target market and they prey on it I guess?

Strongirl - yep I have similar negative reactions to implants. I'm finding myself getting increasingly pissed off with the amount of implants in the fitness industry. Like they are popping off every page in fitness magazines! Seriously we health and fitness professionals are meant to be endorsing HEALTH and fitness how about we do that rather than fill ourselves with plastic and end up with leeching, cancer and numerous other ailments from a surgery that isn't needed. Case in point, I've caught up with a couple of instructors I knew years ago and was SHOCKED to see that both have had implants. One honestly looks ridiculous and the implants lowered my expectations of her as a presenter and fitness professional. I can't help how I feel, I honestly feel like my respect for her as a person, friend and colleague sunk low when I found out. Not jealous, no way, just disappointed, she was awesome before, fit healthy and just kickin' kwim? Now I just can't look at her without thinking that she looks like "bimbo". Which is sad cos I KNOW she is the same person, still knowledgeable but seriously implants? Yep I do view implanted women as having lesser intelligence and low self esteem and confidence, sorry I just do. That said I appreciate implant surgery for what it was intended, for RECONSTRUCTION due to illness/disease, not to glorify some fucked up 'ideal' of what the female body should look like. Honestly I'd rather the procedure never been invented and women everywhere wouldn't have the option to mutilate their bodies.
oceangirl
Has anyone had a friend who went through a breast augmentation? My friend just told me she's getting it done and I am worried about how breast implants might affect her health. She is dead set on getting them. I am really shocked.
buttercups
Hey ladies, sorry I haven't been around much. Life's been treating me rough and I've even been too busy to grieve about it, but I've missed you all. I've been so down lately, and when that happens I tend to take it out on the parts of my body I dislike the most, so you've guessed it- the little girls have been my least favorite part lately. I haven't exactly lapsed back to where I was though, just sorta feeling unsexy that's all. But a large part of that could be that its been almost a month since me and my bf have had sex. I've been too busy and by the time my day is over I just collapse and go to sleep- even if I'm at his house- I can't seem to keep my eyes open past 10 p.m. when I'm consistently getting up around 5 a.m. I also haven't had a day off in...almost 10 days so far- and I've got another 8 to go before I get a day off, so that could also have to do with my stress and no time for sex. The little girls are gettin no lovin and that's when they start to feel the most unloved.

Spoton, I never really thought about how fitness people have implants until you mentioned it, but then again that is one of the things that has always deterred me from exercising. I would see all the girls on the fitness DVDs or on TV with implants, and I told myself that exercising would make the little I have go away, because I thought that that was obviously what happened to these women that made them want to have implants. So I think it does give a pretty negative message if you're someone promoting health and fitness, but you have plastic stuffed in your chest.

Hey oceangirl, I've never had a friend who got implants, but I've heard many stories about how detrimental it can be to your health. Maybe you could talk to her about it, see why she wants them so bad? If she has small breasts ( because let's face it a lot of girls who get implants don't! ) then you could refer her to this board, its done wonders for me.

Love you all and hope everyone is doing well! <3
nbdx0645
Hey buttercups,
A change in the daily routine can really hit you hard. It sounds like you've identified your main stressor at the moment -- work. Also, I'm not sure where you work, but in some US states, for retail and hourly positions, you're required by law to have one day off per 10 days worked (unless you waive the right and come in. Then the counter resets.) Also, I'd stress myself out if I felt the need to plan sex in my day. If I didn't partake in sex that night, it would feel like I skipped out on a workout, or ditched my friend's dinner plans. Let sex fall into place. I get performance anxiety, so the spontaneity works for me. One personal note from me: I used to feel that the only way I'd love my breasts was if someone else did...but if they told me they liked them, I'd think they're lying. Your own personal affirmation is REQUIRED before you'll be neutral toward your breasts. I don't love mine, but I'm not hating them either. I think they're on the same 'love level' as my elbows. They achieve their purpose.

Hi Oceangirl,
Breast implants and their implications on the human body are, in one word, inconclusive. There are stories of women who have had implants without adverse reactions for decades, and there are others who have had silicone migrate to their brain, lymph nodes, and surrounding breast tissue. Other women complain of autoimmune disease, connective tissue diseases, shooting pain from their extremities, and painful complications that require explantation and mastectomy. It is a lifestyle choice, and it is one that will require maintenance, upkeep, and money. The majority of women will require more than one surgery in her lifetime, so if she does follow through with it, she should always have a 'rainy day' fund handy in case of capsular contracture (can happen overnight) rupture (can happen in seconds) and other complications like rippling and breadloafing. Make sure she follows her doctor's instructions by the book. Also, make sure that she understands that the recommended MRI's are not covered by medical insurance, and have her check with her current provider's insurance to make sure she won't be dropped from her insurance. (If she's in the US.) Tiny breasts may damage her self-esteem, but implants may damage her health. The situation is similar to gambling without known odds. Also, there is a social stigma to getting implants (bimbo, vain, slutty, etc) that she may be confronted with. I saw two guys tear a girl's confidence to shreds when they made fun of her fake tits at a bar. I felt awful for her. Was she damned if she got them, and damned if she didn't?

Fake boobs are fake, and the body will react to fake things stuck in it. If I had fakies, I'd still have to tell the guy that my boobs were different. What's worse: "Hey....they're small, is that okay?" or "Hey....they're fake, is that okay?"
angie_21
oceangirl, please also tell your friend that implants often lead to permanent, painful, hard scar tissue ten years down the line, or sooner. If she thinks being small puts a cramp on her sex life, imagine being in pain and havign boobs that feel like water balloons (or if she gets capsular contracture, which isn't all that uncommon, then just rock-hard boobs. yikes). I know she probably wants your support in this decision, and she will think you are just jealous or something, so maybe ask her if she has googled lots of before and after photos, including both successful and unsuccessful operations, and read about the complications and the cost of fixing them (yeah, I guess they don't fix these things for free because they're "complications" and not "mistakes"). It's pretty terrifying. also tell her to check out 007b.com, they have a whole gallery of natural breasts of all sizes that make you realize size sure as hell isn't everything. it also talks about women's breasts in general in terms of sexuality and modern culture.
angie_21
omg I started googling this stuff and it is just flipping ridiculous. the national average rate of post-op nipple numbness is 15%:

"If the possibility of having numb nipples is unacceptable to you, you should not have breast augmentation because no plastic surgeon can guarantee preservation of nipple sensation"

Numbness - plastic surgery webpage

this is just gross:

FDA warnings on implants
oceangirl
Thanks for the replies everyone. I cannot in good conscience support her decision. She is painfully self-conscious about her breasts. She won't wear a bathing suit. The surgery is scheduled for this Friday. I emailed her and pretty much begged her to cancel the appointment. I haven't heard back from her.
auralpoison
So, I read this the other day & was completely freaked out & insulted in a really weird way: Australia Bans Small Breasts In Porn. I mean, WTF, right? A person has small breasts; she is a WOMAN, she is a SEXUAL BEING & she is OF LEGAL AGE. If she wants to be in porn that is her choice, as it is the viewer's choice to view what they like. I mean, I think the whole "barely legal" genre is creepy, but I do not think that just because a woman has a small bust it's going to incite pedophiles (there's a LOT of small bust porn that has nothing to do with the "barely legal" genre), which seems to be the rational behind this law. Small boobies do NOT equal child porn. They equal hot sexy women with lovely small tatas getting their freak on on camera. These women are ADULTS, not children.
buttercups
Wow AP, that makes me sad. I try so hard not to be looked at as some little kid bc of my body type. Guess Australia is trying to confirm that some of the things I think about myself are true... what assholes!
nbdx0645
Don't let that knock your self-esteem, everyone. Read the comments below -- everybody else knows it's a ridiculous form of censorship. The banning of female ejaculation is equally disturbing. The second someone talks about pedophiles everybody freaks the fuck out. I'm sorry, but I don't think women like Melissa Ashley look like they're 15. She's definitely a lady. And so what if we look a little young for our age? If someone looked 17 but they were 21, would they be denied an alcoholic beverage? I think not!

Hey Australia, news flash! You can be 10 with big tits! Hah, their parliament is so dense. Why don't you go after pedophiles instead of normal women, idiots.
spot-on
Wow AP thanks for that link! I am stunned and disgusted at the Aussie ban on small breasts in porn, seriously WTF? Bust size has NO indicator on age, freakin idiots!

It's like the schoolgirl fantasy dipicted, I don't think men want an underage girl, they want to recapture the excitement they felt when they first became interested in girls or had their first sexual experience. kwim? Sure there are sicko's out there, but guess what they aren't looking JUST at small breasted underage girls, they are looking at ALL underage girls regardless of breast size.

Just another reason for insecure women to get implants, like fake boobs weren't prevalent enough already in the porn industry, now Australia gives them another reason to get implants!

Insane!

Oceangirl
I've had a friend get implants, who IMO totally didn't need them. I guess she was lucky in that hers look quite natural (not that I've seen her naked but her strapless wedding dress they looked pretty natural). She has a slim figure and didn't go huge so I guess that makes a difference. Implants last 10 years, then you need to get checked and get them replaced. That's why you see many stars getting new implants, usually because their time is up. So many problems that aren't covered by health ins like has already been mentioned. Way too risky...
angie_21
this was one of the comments on the aussie porn decision;

"When a flat-chested girl hugs you, she is holding you closer to her heart. -Unknown"

awww. although I object to the term "flat-chested" that's still pretty alright smile.gif
spot-on
Wow good links Angie! Just the list of stuff that can go wrong should be enough to put anyone off, let alone the nipple numbness.

Interesting to see granuloma on the list. I've had 3 granuloma lumps removed (ear twice, and eyebrow) and am convinced that if i ever got implants my body would reject them and I think because of my history with granuloma's that I'd get more around the implants. I guess if I wasn't already anti implants for myself I have even more reason now!


QUOTE(angie_21 @ Jan 30 2010, 03:55 PM) *
omg I started googling this stuff and it is just flipping ridiculous. the national average rate of post-op nipple numbness is 15%:

"If the possibility of having numb nipples is unacceptable to you, you should not have breast augmentation because no plastic surgeon can guarantee preservation of nipple sensation"

Numbness - plastic surgery webpage

this is just gross:

FDA warnings on implants

KeraBear
Geeeeeeeez, that bit about Australia is seriously messed up... hopefully New Zealand doesn't pull that kind of shit... because i am seriously crushing on Jermaine and Bret from "Flight of the Conchords" and i do not want to ruin that good vibe. wink.gif

As for that friend who is considering implants... i have to say as long as she thinks long and hard about the decision and is seriously educated before she goes into a decision like that. It may be something a deeper more emotional issue that no amount of surgery would be able to truly "correct" though...

Spot-on, I never thought of other women "coveting" my booblets before. I like that. smile.gif

VENT TIME. In the past i have made it no secret that the only thing more annoying than a younger sister is a younger sister who is infinitely much well endowed than you are (in this case two cup sizes). Well last Saturday we were at Ruby Tuesdays and, being true to the 14-year-old brat that she is, she announced that if I were any item on the menu, I would be the half rack (ribs). I wish I could've come up with a real comeback zinger at that moment but i had nothin'. Touche, though... gotta give credit where credit is due. That was a good one. Seriously though, I would feel so much better about myself if she were not in the picture. A lot of my self esteem issues started when she hit puberty. unsure.gif
nbdx0645
Flight of the Conchords rocks socks! They also filmed The Lord of the Rings in New Zealand. Why would you want to live in a giant desert-land, anyway? =P As for the Australia thing, a post on the internet makes it crystal clear:

"CNN Reports: What is the Itty Bitty Titty Committee's response to this news?"
"The ITBC has declared war on Australia..."

I laughed so hard I nearly peed my pants. Remember, government can fuck up sometimes, here are some fun, recent examples of US fail:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_W._Bush
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq_war
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Financial_cri...07%E2%80%932010

Why should we get 10- to 20- if we're 25? If you look at it on the flip-side, though....I'm jailbait again and that's kinda cool in a taboo way. :3
karategrrl
"Yep I do view implanted women as having lesser intelligence and low self esteem and confidence, sorry I just do. That said I appreciate implant surgery for what it was intended, for RECONSTRUCTION due to illness/disease, not to glorify some fucked up 'ideal' of what the female body should look like. Honestly I'd rather the procedure never been invented and women everywhere wouldn't have the option to mutilate their bodies."

Grrl, you summed up my feelings exactly. Go ahead and say I'm wrong, anyone, but that's thy way I feel.

Totally new topic:
Hubby and I saw Avatar last night (one of the best movies I've ever seen). Aside from all the other great things about the film, the female blue people had small breasts, and I love the way the breasts were portrayed--they were totally a non-issue. It was such a cool thing to see the female lead being totally athletic, warrior-like and kicking some serious ass with those awesome little booblets not getting in her way. In contrast, Sigourney Weaver (in her blue avatar body) had pretty large breasts for some strange reason, and she covered them with a tank top throughout. Guess who was hotter? The small, athletic one, thank you.
KeraBear
QUOTE(karategrrl @ Feb 3 2010, 08:04 AM) *
Grrl, you summed up my feelings exactly. Go ahead and say I'm wrong, anyone, but that's thy way I feel.

Totally new topic:
Hubby and I saw Avatar last night (one of the best movies I've ever seen). Aside from all the other great things about the film, the female blue people had small breasts, and I love the way the breasts were portrayed--they were totally a non-issue. It was such a cool thing to see the female lead being totally athletic, warrior-like and kicking some serious ass with those awesome little booblets not getting in her way. In contrast, Sigourney Weaver (in her blue avatar body) had pretty large breasts for some strange reason, and she covered them with a tank top throughout. Guess who was hotter? The small, athletic one, thank you.


Oh yeah, GOOOOOD movie! I never thought about the awesome blue small breastedness. Maybe because deep down inside i knew they were "fake". But maybe not so fake since it was based on the actual actress? But a big ol' HECK YES nonetheless! wink.gif
angie_21
just one last note on implants, maybe.. women have been mutliating their bodies for beauty (or in some cases, men have done it for them) since long back in prehistory. Everything you can think of from feet to ribcage to skull shape, and also bleaching things that shouldn't be bleached, swallowing tapeworms to lose weight, and using toxic chemicals as make-up. implants are just one more thing in a long lineup of self-mutilation for status and socially-defined beauty. at some point in the future people will look back on implants the way we look at corsets or foot binding. on one side, I hate that women still do these things because it's a huge blow to feminism and it devalues us a people. but from the broader perspective, it's something common to almost all human cultures in all time periods, so I just shrug and move on with my day when I see it.

haven't seen avatar. it's not really my thing. but I'll think about it...
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