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dancingqueen
Hi all!

Thank you for all the great comments. I sure do appreciate them all! ha ha ha. I work at a jewelry store and decided that since I wasn't going to get an engagement ring any time soon, I should buy myself something. I got a gorgeous Amethyst ring. It is huge!

Guy: I like your analogy. It made me laugh!

KeraBear: Stay strong! I had more problems with other girls commenting me on my boobs in High School than boyfriends. I got pissed at a few friends and had to tell them to back off. Ha ha ha. I was mean!! I told one girl that at least I wasn't fat like she was. Keep going! I wish I could tell you that if your sister is big, you could be too, but that just sucks to hear. My sister was bigger than me too and I just started resenting people saying "Oh wait until you're 16...18...21.....23....." It is what it is. Hard to accept tho.
just_a_guy
I'm really glad that I found this place, and I hope that I am contributing something positive to the group.

If I can help even one woman shift her perspective from "I'm going to accept who I am, small breasts and all" to "Wow, I'm really lucky to have small breasts because they enhance my beauty while larger breasts would make me look/feel awkward" it will bring me tremendous pleasure.

It's kind of like cars: some guys love big american muscle, I like small and sporty with beautiful lines. I'll take a lotus elise, or a porche, or even a supercharged mini over a camaro, or a charger, or a corvette any day of the week. I love motorcycles. They are fast and nimble and thrilling. It's not that I don't appreciate the beauty of a big old v8 sports cars. I do. But they don't make my heart race, and my stomach fill with butterflies.

I love a lithe little package 5'2" with a cups and 95 pounds soaking wet. I don't want you to grow into anything, I just want you to realize how beautiful you already are, and that that there are good, strong, educated, intelligent, fun, witty, attractive men (and women if that's your preference) with jobs and cars who don't live in their mother's basement and who find you much more physically appealing than your curvier counterparts.

I hooked up with an ex about a year ago whom I hadn't seen in nearly seven years, and she was worried that I would find her less attractive because she'd lost some weight and gone from a a 36c to a 34b. In reality it was the exact opposite. There have been times in my life when I've see a girl who has been blessed with some serious assets and I've actually thought to myself "she's not the right girl for me. even though I think she is a great girl and I know she is attractive, she deserves someone who is going to appreciate her body in a way that I never will."

I don't know any of you personally, but if I can give you one message it is that you haven't been cursed with small breasts. you have been blessed by nature with figures that make men's hearts soar.
sybarite
Just a guy, I have to say your model, or template, based around women's choice of bags/shoes or underwear left a bad taste in my mouth too. While I get what you're trying to express, for me it is always problematic to reduce a person to the things she or he buys. Further, any template (I prefer the term to 'model') based on any aspect of a woman's appearance is to me reductive and counter to the feminism inherent to this site. I love bags, shoes and underwear but I wouldn't like to be assessed by my collection of same. Ditto your description of any woman as a package; however complementary you mean to be, again you are reducing a woman to aspects of her appearance (and what about anyone who isn't 95 pounds?).

Saying all that, I am not a regular on this thread; most people here seem happy with your contribution so far. The above is my 2 cents, offering one explanation for why what you said can come across as potentially offensive.
auralpoison
Thank you for saying that so well, Syb.
just_a_guy
Hi sybarite!

First of all, thank you for your input and especially for the civil manner in which it was presented. I can certainly understand why you feel the way you do.

I wish that I could go into a job interview dressed in ripped jeans and a t-shirt, unshaven, with unkempt hair, and be judged solely based on my merits. Unfortunately, that just isn't reality.

As human beings we are constantly subjected to sensory input, and we filter that input through mental templates (to use your phrasing. I use "model" because of my background in math and science) that we have developed over the course of our life experience in order to process new data more efficiently. Burying our proverbial heads in the sand with regard to the de-facto workings of the human mind will not change that fact.

I do take issue with the assumption that I apply templates only to women, and am therefore anti-feminist.

In fact, I am an ardent feminist who believes that, while there is equivalency between men and women (which is to say one is not, nor should be, greater than the other), it is ridiculous to pretend that men and women are exactly the same in all respects. That said, I find it both offensive and unfounded for anyone to assume I apply templates any more frequently or egregiously to women than I do to men. I can only assume that such an assumption grows out of the knowledge that I am a man, and the templates that people hold with regard to the probabilities of a man's intentions.

Out of curiosity, to you read my reply to auralpoison before you made this assumption?

With regard to the 95 pounds statement, it was specifically made in the context of a response to the expressed desires of women, who have described themselves as such, to grow into something else. It was certainly not a commentary on all women, and I don't believe it reads that way unless taken out of context. Similarly, the templates I presented are specific to women because this thread is about women, in that context I think it's pretty clear why I've presented more information particular to the female gender.

Can you see how the very assumption that I am prejudiced against women or feminism (supported by active ignorance of the context in which my comments were made) demonstrates the very point I was trying to make about templates?



QUOTE(sybarite @ Sep 10 2010, 03:50 AM) *
Just a guy, I have to say your model, or template, based around women's choice of bags/shoes or underwear left a bad taste in my mouth too. While I get what you're trying to express, for me it is always problematic to reduce a person to the things she or he buys. Further, any template (I prefer the term to 'model') based on any aspect of a woman's appearance is to me reductive and counter to the feminism inherent to this site. I love bags, shoes and underwear but I wouldn't like to be assessed by my collection of same. Ditto your description of any woman as a package; however complementary you mean to be, again you are reducing a woman to aspects of her appearance (and what about anyone who isn't 95 pounds?).

Saying all that, I am not a regular on this thread; most people here seem happy with your contribution so far. The above is my 2 cents, offering one explanation for why what you said can come across as potentially offensive.

KeraBear
Dancing Queen - Yeah, isn't it crazy how people giving us crap about small breasts are for often than not fellow girls?!? You would think we gals would support one another, but no. I usually try not to play the "fat card" because i dunno, i guess i sort of feel like i am going down to their level you know? I have pretty much accepted that I will not be like my sister. We both have totally different body types. She is taller and curvey like my mom, whereas i get more from my dad, who has a lot of short petite types on his side. It could be worse. I could have inherited his back hair. LOL! And yes, i feel ya on the comments from family and friends. It seems from age 13 on, EVERY YEAR it was the same thing. "Don't worry, your breasts will grow, Kera. You still have time. You are probably just a late bloomer" (i am actually. started my periods at 15) Yeah? Well what if they don't?!? They talk as if it is legitamite problem. THEY are the problem for making me feed into this idea. Am i right?

Strong girl - I appreciate your comments. But I would argue against your idea that we need to "reject the idea that we're competing in the first place - it's totally bogus." Unfortunately that is the reality. At least in high school. My high school at least. Other girls seem to make it a compeition. They make me feel inferior because i am short, small breasted with narrow hips. Some of it might be jealousy because i am a skilly little thing, i dunno. Maybe it gets better after high school, i sure hope so. But one thing you are right about is that the more of us who stand up and refuse to play that game. I think part of the reason we feel like we are losing based on boob size is that for many of us breasts = being a woman. And when younger girls seem to be "winning" on that front, it says what? That they are more woman than we are? Heck no! It is not what is below the collarbone that determines that, but what's above. Amen to that, Stronggirl! smile.gif

Oh geeeez, I think I was ranting again. Ooops. Ha ha
nbdx0645
I completely agree with Kera and and SG about being a target for competition and conquest. Is it an in-group out-group mentality? I remember when I was younger, I'd try to run away when the topic of breasts came up. Somehow, I'd get sucked into the big maw of "Aww sucks to be you" or "Finally! I'm no longer the flattest one in the room!" Or, they start talking about how massive someone else's breasts are, and you can see that the girl is very uncomfortable, but you're too afraid to help because you don't want the evil stares and comments directed at you. I'm one of those girls who never really made it out of high school with her sanity intact. It was a dark and scary time. I wanted breasts because I wanted the comments to stop.

The worst part is that many of the girls who commented were genuinely trying to help. They'd offer fashion advice, exercise tips and weird rituals to help them grow. They'd let you know how sorry they are for you. What do you say to that?
discowombat
So I went into Victoria's Secret today....

I'm sure you all know how well that worked out.

I went in knowing I'd be assaulted with helpfulness from no less than 3 sales people during my 10 minute stay. In conversation I used my vast knowledge of bra sizing and fitting to express what I needed and why. I feigned confidence (or at least indifference) about my size. I explained that I wished they stocked the 30 band in stores but I knew it was only available online, so I was here to try on some 32s to see if there was a possibility the ones in my proper size would fit right in the cup if I ordered them... Yet, after being asked my size in a very public place by 2 of the 3 employees before I could even try anything on, then later receiving looks of disbelief and comments of "Really?!??!" after telling them that the 32s were too big my self confidence was once again torn to shreds. Did I not make it clear to them earlier that I knew what I was looking for? I'm might be tiny, but I'm not a mutant. Are they really that surprised when someone declines to buy products that don't fit them?

I do have to say that one lady was understanding, seemed to believe me when I told her it was loose on the tightest clasp, and told me about a specialty bra store in town that I did not know about. Many thanks to her! However, I wish my bra shopping wasn't such a public experience! Nothing like the other two employees being loud enough to make other customers stare. sad.gif
KeraBear
QUOTE(nbdx0645 @ Sep 10 2010, 10:10 PM) *
I completely agree with Kera and and SG about being a target for competition and conquest. Is it an in-group out-group mentality? I remember when I was younger, I'd try to run away when the topic of breasts came up. Somehow, I'd get sucked into the big maw of "Aww sucks to be you" or "Finally! I'm no longer the flattest one in the room!" Or, they start talking about how massive someone else's breasts are, and you can see that the girl is very uncomfortable, but you're too afraid to help because you don't want the evil stares and comments directed at you. I'm one of those girls who never really made it out of high school with her sanity intact. It was a dark and scary time. I wanted breasts because I wanted the comments to stop.

The worst part is that many of the girls who commented were genuinely trying to help. They'd offer fashion advice, exercise tips and weird rituals to help them grow. They'd let you know how sorry they are for you. What do you say to that?


Yeah, exactly! I try to shrink away whenever the topic of breasts comes up because it ALWAYS seems to turn into a let's pity Kera party. It was the same kind of awkwardness when the topic of periods might come up during my freshman year. I still didn't have mine yet, so I would get singled out (although i have to say, some girls were jealous about that LOL!) "Finally! I'm no longer the flattest one in the room!" I have heard things like that too. I'm like, "really? Did you really have to go there?" So rude. Glad I could make you feel better about yourself at the expense of my own struggling self esteem, geeez. But girls can be equally vicious to other girls with bigger breasts, too.

But if it isn't somebody putting me down, it is somebody trying to make me feel better about myself or fashion tips on how to mask my "problem". You are right. What do you even say to that? Wow high school is so messed up. Perhaps it IS simply a matter of speaking out - telling it like it is. Shouting from the rooftops - "DAMMIT, I AM BEAUTIFUL JUST THE WAY I AM. Being a woman is more than two lumps hanging from your chest! I am woman hear me roar! RAWR!" LMAO!

I am in my senior year now though, so soon i get to leave all this behind! WOOT! It does get better in college ... umm... right?
KeraBear
Oooh... sorry to hear about the VS experience, Wombat. I wish I could help, but i've never really dealt with salespeople, nor ever actually got sized by someone or anything like that. I mostly take care of my bra needs at Target. You are a 30 band? geeez, i could see how that could comlpicate things. I am rocking the 32 myself. But my goodness, those salespeople were pretty worthless right there huh? I mean, c'mon do your jobs or something! At least one of them was able to step up and be of some sort of help, wow. And naw you are not a mutant. Just unique!

Ha ha, after months and months of lurking, all of a sudden i am feeling talkative. LOL
enfermera
discowombat, they made you feel bad for having a small BAND size? that is ridiculous. (not ridiculous of you, ridiculous of them.) there are plenty of women out there who have very large breasts and still have a tiny band size. i also hate the public experience of bra shopping at vs, so i just don't. thank goodness there was even one knowledgable salesperson there to be helpful! i just don't understand why that store insists on maintaining the pretense of being a specialty boutique, when their product isn't that great and their sales people tend to have the same minimal training as your general, run-of-the-mill department store employees. (this is assumption; i've never looked into the training procedures at vs.)
Persiflager
*delurks*

As a larger-boobed lady with a 30 band, I can confirm that I've had the same experience. I'm pretty sure they actually thought that I invented the number.

*relurks*
strongirl
Kera, it absolutely does get better after high school! And you are so healthy and well-put together that if you can be like that in high school, you are totally going to kick ass and take names when you get out into a bigger pond. "RAWR" is right! smile.gif

And I do apologize for implying that competition between women "only" exists in our heads - in some environments, and high school is definitely one of them - it is the absolute reality of the situation. Beauty contests and strip clubs would be some other examples that spring to mind.

What I was ranting against is the kind of competition that women are taught to engage in within our own heads - where we see another woman, or girl, and immediately compare ourselves to her based on the media standard for women's looks: is she flatter, fatter, or older than me? Yes - then I can feel better about myself. No - then I feel worse. No one wins with that stuff, at least not for long. That's the kind of mentality that I try to avoid and encourage others to avoid. And instead enjoy the beauty and uniqueness in ourselves and in other women.

KeraBear
QUOTE(strongirl @ Sep 13 2010, 04:53 PM) *
Kera, it absolutely does get better after high school! And you are so healthy and well-put together that if you can be like that in high school, you are totally going to kick ass and take names when you get out into a bigger pond. "RAWR" is right! smile.gif

And I do apologize for implying that competition between women "only" exists in our heads - in some environments, and high school is definitely one of them - it is the absolute reality of the situation. Beauty contests and strip clubs would be some other examples that spring to mind.

What I was ranting against is the kind of competition that women are taught to engage in within our own heads - where we see another woman, or girl, and immediately compare ourselves to her based on the media standard for women's looks: is she flatter, fatter, or older than me? Yes - then I can feel better about myself. No - then I feel worse. No one wins with that stuff, at least not for long. That's the kind of mentality that I try to avoid and encourage others to avoid. And instead enjoy the beauty and uniqueness in ourselves and in other women.


Thank god it gets better! High school can be hell sometimes! LOL And thanks for the compliment, SG! I don't really feel put together most of the time, but thanks. Most of the credit goes towards my mom and also you fine ladies right here.

Thanks for clarifying what you meant by the compeition. yea, i guess i can agree with that. I know i am certainly guilty of that from time to time... comparing myself to other girls and what the media says is beautiful. Good call. That is bad news.
KeraBear
Speaking of media ... I need some advice. My BF and I got into a terrible fight earlier today. I was over at his house and went over to use his computer. There were some images of porn that he had not cleared from the screen. I had been having a bad day up to that point. I am pretty sure i bombed a test at school this morning and i was having another bad body day - you know where you hate the world because it is taller and has bigger boobs than you so you are frustrated at the unfairness of it all? Yeah. Anyways, so I saw these images of these tall, curvy naked women and I dunno... i just lost it. All the frustrations of my day came out and I really let him have it!! Seeing those women made me feel inadequate. Like I couldn't possibly measure up EVER. They seemed so perfect. I felt like he needed to go to the Internet to make up for what i didn't have - hips, breasts, the rest of the package. He said there was nothing wrong with it and I was acting like I had caught him cheating on me or something. We had never talked much about porn, and i never much really thought about it until i was just now confronted with it.

Was I overeacting? Isn't this just what normal guys do? What are your thoughts about porn?
nbdx0645
I hate to say this.

The comments that I received in my college experience were more vulgar, but the number of comments decreased. I used to rollerblade in workout clothes until a dude pointed at me and yelled "FLATTY PATTY FLATTY PATTY FLATTY PATTY" as I skated by him and his friends who were laughing hysterically. Another time, I was hanging out among friends and one of them blurted out that "my male friend has bigger tits than me." He called me on my phone and begged for forgiveness, but I never talked to him again.

I felt that I could never escape my breasts, even in college. In all honesty, I don't have a noticeable projection, and my male friend is a heavy guy, but I hate that I've got 5'9'' of physical self and everyone seems to zero-in on 1 square foot of it.

It's sad, I went to one of the best public colleges in the nation and I still got to deal with that shit. Idiots are everywhere.
just_a_guy
QUOTE(KeraBear @ Sep 13 2010, 03:55 PM) *
Speaking of media ... I need some advice. My BF and I got into a terrible fight earlier today. I was over at his house and went over to use his computer. There were some images of porn that he had not cleared from the screen. I had been having a bad day up to that point. I am pretty sure i bombed a test at school this morning and i was having another bad body day - you know where you hate the world because it is taller and has bigger boobs than you so you are frustrated at the unfairness of it all? Yeah. Anyways, so I saw these images of these tall, curvy naked women and I dunno... i just lost it. All the frustrations of my day came out and I really let him have it!! Seeing those women made me feel inadequate. Like I couldn't possibly measure up EVER. They seemed so perfect. I felt like he needed to go to the Internet to make up for what i didn't have - hips, breasts, the rest of the package. He said there was nothing wrong with it and I was acting like I had caught him cheating on me or something. We had never talked much about porn, and i never much really thought about it until i was just now confronted with it.

Was I overeacting? Isn't this just what normal guys do? What are your thoughts about porn?


Hey kera!

I think that your reaction makes total sense given your explanation. Unfortunately, I'm guessing that your bf didn't get the whole rationale and you may have held him accountable for your own securities in the moment. It's okay, we all do that from time to time. Notwithstanding that, it still wasn't particularly fair to him.

I can say that almost every guy I know (myself included) indulge in pornography and masturbation with varying frequency and regularity depending on the person. I can also say this is even more likely in a high school aged male. It's important to know that whether or not a guy looks at porn or masturbated while in a relationship almost never has to do with dissatisfaction in his partner. It's just one of those things we do for ourselves. It's "me time."

If I were your bf in this situation I know that I would probably be hoping for the chance to talk calmly about what happened, to hear that my actions weren't the sole reason for your reaction, and to reassure you that my feelings for you have nothing to do with my recreational activities.

I hope things work out well for you, and I hope this helped some :-)
nbdx0645
Kera, it's okay that you reacted that way. It was a knee-jerk reaction to something you were completely unprepared for. I do feel that men should be more sympathetic to the wide range of reactions that females have toward porn. It is very well-known that some women hate it, others are intimidated, some are indifferent, and others are aroused.

I dated a guy who had terabytes of porn (in 2005, mind you!) and that bothered me. I've been in your situation before, but I just held my feelings in. Looking back on it, I should have come forward and said that it made me feel uncomfortable. I didn't give him a fair chance to explain his side of the story. I have dated men who didn't fully appreciate my body type, and they simply come out in the wash. =) If I remember correctly, you have a nice boyfriend. What you did is a common reaction, and you should only apologize if you feel that you acted out of line. Sex, intimacy, and arousal varies greatly from person-to-person. Your follow-up conversation can double as a segue into what interests you (and interests him) sexually.

Speak your mind and ask him to be honest about his porn preferences and girlfriend preferences. It can be very hard to see that your body type was not represented in the material he was looking at. Remember, your partner can go through all the porn archives the Internet can offer -- he won't be able to find you.
auralpoison
While your feelings are completely valid, Kera, I do think you overreacted. You admitted yourself that you were having a bad day overall/were upset about other things & that the porn pushed you to lose your shit on him. He really hadn't done anything wrong per se since the two of you haven't had the "porn talk". He wasn't aware how much it would upset you or that he needed to spic & span his computer before letting you use it.

I think you should cut both of you some slack here fer reals. From what I've read, your fella is a good guy & I'm pretty sure he knows that porn is totally fake & corny fantasy fapping material. He has a real woman for actual lovemaking & intimacy, the spank bank is mostly just for getting in, getting off, & getting out. Everybody needs a little solo time & porn can spice that up. It's definitely not a comment on him being unhappy with you, your body, or your sex. Ease up on yourself some!

I really think you should listen to what NBDX said about this being a good segue into the "porn talk". Best advice on that: do it away from the bedroom or any kind of funsexytimes.

When my partner & I had our "porn talk", it was kind of a gas. As a white/hetero man, his porn is almost exclusively white/hetero, but he has sex with me, a mixed race woman. The blatant racism in porn squicks him out, so he doesn't watch it. My preferences lie in fun/funny/erotic pro-woman porn & hot guy gay porn. For some reason the gay porn thing surprised him, but he was okay with it. Porn is just something we don't share, but we also don't share computers, either, so it's not really a problem stumbling upon anything weird.

On a side note, you might want to look up Timothy Greenfield-Sanders' book Thinking XXX & the documentary that goes with it, also called Thinking XXX. It's portraits of thirty porn stars porned-up, but also portraits of them in their natural state. The differences are quite interesting & it shows you that the plain looking woman or man standing in line next to you at the coffee shop could be a porn star sans fards.
just_a_guy
I just wanted to say that I agree with both nbdx0645 and auralpoison.

Going back and reading my post on a computer (i was posting from my phone) I just want to be 100% clear that I don't think you or your boyfriend were wrong in this situation. It sounds like you both got a little emotional and defensive in the moment, and I would look at this as an opportunity to develop your communication skills with your partner, a skill which I think everyone here can agree is essential to any relationship lasting long term.

Being able to communicate my needs, and to trust that my partner will tell me hers, in a way that is safe (if not always comfortable) is the absolute most important thing to me in a relationship. It's the only way for me to feel like the other person both trusts me enough to be truly intimate, and knows and accepts me for the person I really am, flaws and all. I think any guy worth his salt will feel the same way (and your guy sounds like he is from your previous posts) and welcome this as an opportunity to get closer to you.

On a side note, I'm glad to find some common ground aural laugh.gif
Persiflager
(((KeraBear))

To the best of my knowledge, 'what normal guys do' is pretty much as follows:

Hmm, I feel bored and/or horny.
I think I'll have a nice w*nk!
Fire up computer... google 'p*rn'.
Pictures of naked ladies have appeared. Awesome!
Happy times ensue.

Speaking personally, I go for the first thing I find that turns me on, and think 'yep, that'll do'. I'm too lazy to spend much time looking for something particular when I just want to get my rocks off. As most of the p*rn ladies out there fit a certain body type, I think that's what most guys end up looking at even if it's not their preference.

[Apologies for all the sissy asterisks, I'm typing at work.]
auralpoison
Word, Persi!

And I forgot to post a link to the Porn thread should we wish to continue the porn convo without derailing this thread.
karategrrl
QUOTE(nbdx0645 @ Sep 14 2010, 01:51 AM) *
Remember, your partner can go through all the porn archives the Internet can offer -- he won't be able to find you.

That was an really awesome thing to read. Thanks, I needed that!!!!!

Just a guy, maybe your intro into this forum was a little thorny, but I will say for myself, it's nice to have you here. We've spent a lot of time here speculating about what guys think, etc. and it's nice to have a real guy here (who seems intelligent, thought-full and pretty darn down-to-earth) to offer his perspective. Guy, I want to ask you something about male behavior but not sure if it really belongs in the "small bust" forum. But this is the place I post most and feel like I shouldn't invade another forum if I'm not a regular.

As for the porn thing, I'm extremely picky as far as what I'm attracted to, so that definitely cuts down on it for me. I like tasteful erotica but most stuff out there is not of that caliber and demeaning to women, to say the least. I've also had more than one relationship where shared porn escalated gradually into actual cheating (mag porn--> movies-->strip clubs-->seeking out "real thing" & threesomes, etc.) so I want nothing of it with my husband and it actually kinda freaks me out.
just_a_guy
QUOTE(karategrrl @ Sep 14 2010, 10:18 AM) *
That was an really awesome thing to read. Thanks, I needed that!!!!!

Just a guy, maybe your intro into this forum was a little thorny, but I will say for myself, it's nice to have you here. We've spent a lot of time here speculating about what guys think, etc. and it's nice to have a real guy here (who seems intelligent, thought-full and pretty darn down-to-earth) to offer his perspective. Guy, I want to ask you something about male behavior but not sure if it really belongs in the "small bust" forum. But this is the place I post most and feel like I shouldn't invade another forum if I'm not a regular.

As for the porn thing, I'm extremely picky as far as what I'm attracted to, so that definitely cuts down on it for me. I like tasteful erotica but most stuff out there is not of that caliber and demeaning to women, to say the least. I've also had more than one relationship where shared porn escalated gradually into actual cheating (mag porn--> movies-->strip clubs-->seeking out "real thing" & threesomes, etc.) so I want nothing of it with my husband and it actually kinda freaks me out.


I'm not sure, what the protocol is for that. Perhaps one of the mods can point us toward an appropriate thread, otherwise you are perfectly welcome to PM me about it.

I would definitely agree with you that it is extremely rare for threesomes and marriage to co-exist harmoniously, and even more rare when the rules of the relationship change midstream. In either case, it doesn't sound like something that you want, which should be all that matters to your partner. The escalation behavior you describe sounds very much like sex-addiction on the part of one (or both) of you, most likely with some codependency on the side of the other, but that is also a topic for another thread.
lapis
Hi--I've been thinking of my small boobs lately and wanted to jump in. My points connect with the small breast theme and Kerabear's concerns. I've been thinking about pron/body type for awhile, especially after dating a man who downloaded tons of porn with his breakfast daily, and these are my opinions.
1. Porn is something people consumer--it might not reflect their body preferences--it's a place to project fantasies or see things you might not ordinarily see, and these images might necessarily correspond with real life tastes and desires, so don't take it personally.
2. The flipside: I wouldn't want to date someone who really fixated on my body type and sought out that aesthetic on the internets--because then I would feel like a type rather than someone chosen for a constellation of things (looks, intelligence, ridiculousness, etc.). Not to detract from the hotness of my body type (super thin, flat chested, and big booty), of course...
I've been experiencing some body revelations lately because my new beau has had a thing for bigger girls and I'm tiny. What is really cool is that although he would present his preferences for a particular aesthetic, we have a clear and definite attraction that transcends both of our 'tastes'. Sometimes people are just hot together and that chemistry has its own beauty. I don't want to undermine anybody's body but just want to point out that bodies have synergy when they interact with each other. So, when I feel insecure about myself sometimes, I think about how hot my partner and I are together, and remind myself of it when I am alone. I think we compare ourselves to other people often but it's also good to think about how your bodies interact with and compliment each other...

Also, I got those aa Aerie bras and only the hannah style fits--but it's a good fit! Whoo hoo!
KeraBear
That WAS an awesome thing to read, nbdx0645! And so true. There is only one Kera like me! And unlike a lot of ladies in cyberspace, i am not fake. They're real and they're spectacular! smile.gif Okay, so i had a talk with my BF. He felt bad about what happened afterwards. And then i felt bad about him feeling bad. But I did as one of you advised. I used it as an opening for a long overdue convo on where both of us stand on stuff like this. We both agreed that we could have handled this better. I told him virtually everything that i had told you. My BF admitted to me that he is attracted to a wide variety of women and body types and that sort of thing, but that doesn't mean that he is attracted to me any less. Actually, in all my crazy emotions, i had forgotten all about how much he actually digs my bod. The evidence is in the bedroom where he scours every inch of my body and pays special attention to these little booblets that i sometimes loathe. Yes, i am not THAT wide-eyed and innocent! LMAO! He was a sweet heart and offered to stop just for me, but I didn't want to do that. I am still trying to sort out exactly how i feel about porn. The fact of the matter is that he IS a teenage boy and I cannot judge him too harshly. I guess if i feel like if it seems like it is getting out of hand and seems to be seriously having a negative impact on our relationship, i might change my mind. Because honestly, part of me shares Karategrrl's fears that it might escalate into something terrible. But, it looks like we are okay now. Thank you sooooooooo much. smile.gif
KeraBear
nbdx0645 - Thanks for being so truthful about your college experience, even though it did rain on my parade!. That guy that drove by yelling at you is such a jerkface! I hope it did not discourage you from your rollerblading routine or from the comfort of your outfit so that you never wore it again. If so, then they win! And that's bad! What I want to know is what college did you go to, so that I can cross it off my list of potential places to apply this year! geeeeez
nbdx0645
That's such great news, Kera.

Edit: For college, I went to UIUC, which was a very good opportunity for me. Unfortunately, I lived in a very party-centric location. It wouldn't have been quite as bad if I lived away from the Fratville. We had issues with students throwing parties that centered around racism and, of course, hazing. College is a polarized place. You have some of the best and brightest...and then you have the mean party animals.

I do feel bad if I rained on your parade. I got angry when I recalled those experiences. I attended school for 4 years, and I had one idiot yell at me across the street, and a so-called-friend made fun of me. I had a few 'well-meaning remarks' and a couple people who commented on their lilliputian-ness. That's really not so bad. Now I can look back and say "this is who I am" and apply that self-assurance to other situations. Or maybe I'll just punch the next person who makes fun of me. KA-POWW!

College is a great adventure.
just_a_guy
That's really great news kera biggrin.gif
buttercups
Sorry I'm late into the conversation and really glad it was resolved for you Kera, but I have a different perspective on things.

I have felt exactly like you and had a similar situation where I found porn on my ex-bfs computer. I found out he would be with me for a little bit during the night, then go home and look at porn- and of course all big fake boobs and such. It really hurt me and I definitely reacted to it. I felt completely inadequate and I have to say I still would. I find most porn to be extremely sexist and some guys do internalize that fake "ideal" and think all women look that way or there is something wrong with them. This ex of mine also was sexually aggressive and he even attributed it to porn himself. I felt very uncomfortable having him see my body and yes I am more insecure than a lot of the wonderful ladies on here, but it was a big problem for me feeling like I was being compared to fake images of "the perfect woman". For me it had to stop because I was definitely not ok with it and even today don't think I would be. I think maybe if I was someone more comfortable in my body that would be possible, but with the body I have - seeing my guy get off to something I don't and will never even resemble in the slightest is hard. I have very deep-rooted insecurities and can't pretend like they aren't there. Not to mention the fact that it pisses me off that a lot of porn is all these stereotypically "hot" chicks with ugly dudes ( even if they have big dicks- which don't turn me on anyways, they are still usually ugly guys).

I guess my point is that you don't have to just "accept" that your guy will look at porn. It's ok for it to bother you, it bothers many women- myself included. If you're truly over it and such then I am happy for you and glad you could overcome it, but don't feel like you necessarily over-reacted or that it's something you have to live with because "boys will be boys" and all that bullshit. If by any chance it still bothers you, have a talk with him and see what you can work out. Once I confessed to my ex-bf how much it hurt me and my insecurities he stopped doing it of his own free will, and that definitely helped me feel a little better in our relationship. Just offering you another perspective because hey that's what we're here for right!
karategrrl
QUOTE(buttercups @ Sep 15 2010, 11:28 AM) *
I guess my point is that you don't have to just "accept" that your guy will look at porn. It's ok for it to bother you, it bothers many women- myself included. If you're truly over it and such then I am happy for you and glad you could overcome it, but don't feel like you necessarily over-reacted or that it's something you have to live with because "boys will be boys" and all that bullshit.

Thanks for sharing that. I do agree. Everyone has the right to their opinion, and whatever it is, it should be respected. And I SOOOOO hate that "boys will be boys" or "I can't help it, I'm a guy" crap. It's like women who blame everything on PMS.

Recently my stepson (about 24) came over with his new GF. He told his dad and I about a friend of his whose engagement might be called off due to the fact that his fiance found a Playboy in his sock drawer. Stepson thought it was ridiculous and blamed it on her being Mormon. My husband then agreed that it was stupid and said, "that's not even porn." Later I asked hubby about it and he apparently defines "porn" as sex acts depicted between two people--not airbrushed fantasy photos of solo women. Crap. Such crap. what bugs me most is the hypocrisy--I'd be willing to bet a day's pay that any man would be at least a little rattled to find Playgirl or such in his woman's sock drawer. I cannot see any man just brushing that off and saying," oh, that's not even porn" and "wow, that guys's got a huge weiner, but I still feel totally confident about mine, even though it's half the size!" Seriously, now I'm venting, but what goes up my ass sideways is men's hypocrisy. I've seen it a billion times. (No offense to your species, Just a Guy!) wink.gif

KeraBear, very glad it worked out. It's great when the crap events in relationships can morph into something better that improves the whole relationship overall.
KeraBear
QUOTE(nbdx0645 @ Sep 14 2010, 10:26 PM) *
Or maybe I'll just punch the next person who makes fun of me. KA-POWW!


Yeeeeeeeeeeeeessss!!!

Buttercups: Yes, it still bothers me somewhat. Honestly, i am still trying to work out how i feel about porn because as you know from my past post, i really feel what you are sayingl! And my BF has offered to stop and he knows that i can change my mind if i really wanted to.

JAG: Thanks for a guy point of view. It really was helpful. You are such a brainiac (That was supposed to be a compliment. LOL) smile.gif
strongirl
Lapis, that was a very profound and refreshing perspective and I thank you for posting it. The idea that it would be concerning to be attractive to one's partner just because of being a "type" is one I hadn't really thought about but it's valid and I know I'll think about it more. And the things you said about appreciating the uniqueness and energy and chemistry between you. That perspective dismantles the whole pressure to be someone's perfect ideal or the epitome of their body type preference - powerful stuff! Forget perfection. It's the magic between you that matters.

My bf has a huge collection of pics of women and I've always had a positive reaction to the amazing variety in his collection - it conveys to me that he likes women, period. He has more "candid" or amateur stuff than actual "models" and few fake boobs. These women have flaws - chub, weird proportions, etc. He still likes to look at them and why? Because they're willingly naked.

Kera - you are so cool and that bf of yours sounds like a keeper. You are light years ahead of most people your age and for that matter, any age.
KeraBear
Thanks SG! *blushing* "Because they are willingly naked." Ha ha... tru! I guess if i preferred anything at least let my BF appreciate the amateur form. You know, something "real" instead of that fake airbrushed crap

hey i really enjoy the reading the different perspectives from you alll good stuff!
just_a_guy
Hey buttercups, it was really interesting to read your take on things. I 100% agree that if you are not comfortable with your BF looking at porn, and he feels that you don't have a right to weigh in on his decision, then you are probably not compatible. I just don't think either of you are wrong.

I think that is equally true regarding what karategrrl said (although I do take issue with attributing hypocrisy solely to men. Hypocrites come in all shapes sizes colors, and genders). Everybody has there own definition of what porn is. I personally don't care if a girl I'm dating wants to sleep on a stack of Playgirls (or something more hardcore for that matter) in place of a mattress. Personally, it's that level of security that I have to have in order to know the relationship is healthy. I know myself, and I know that if I'm feeling insecure about that, or about my girl hanging out with her guy friends, or any of the other stuff that people get bent out of shape over, then it points to a deeper problem of trust within my relationship, and that is what I need to address.

Beyond the issue of personal insecurity, porn is one of those hot-button issues (in the same vein as abortion, religion, or political alignment) for some people. My mother can't stand it. She thinks it is absolutely degrading to women, and hates the idea of it. At the same time, I doubt that she has had any real exposure to it. My sister, simultaneously doesn't mind it at all. She thinks that, while there may be problems with the reality of the porn industry and the forces that motivate women into performance, there are quite a few women in porn who should be feminist figureheads, ostensibly refusing to allow patriarchal dictation of what they do with their bodies, express themselves sexually, or earn their living.

I can certainly see the validity of both arguments. I also agree that ugly dudes detract significantly from the viewing experience. Unfortunately, I haven't gotten any word back on whether or not I can step in and replace them yet (maybe I need an agent).

On a side note, I don't think anybody said kera overreacted because it bothered her that her BF was looking at porn. I know I suggested that she might have reacted more agressively than she would have over just pornography because of the other things going on in her life at that particular moment (only kera can truly answer that one).

SG - way to out my porn habits in front of a room full of women tongue.gif
starship
Hmm, I'm undecided on the porn issue. I kind of agree with everyone lol. Each relationship is different though so I couldn't 100% say I don't mind my bf watching porn/that I would ask him not to etc. I definitely couldn't see myself with someone who was obsessive and couldn't live without it. I think it would get to me too much on my down days.

Anywho, I only really popped in to tell you all that i ordered some......NIPPLE TASSELS! lol. To be honest it was only an impulse buy to make an online order enough to qualify for free postage, but I'm still a bit excited. Should be fun to try...
karategrrl
QUOTE(starship @ Sep 15 2010, 10:35 PM) *
Anywho, I only really popped in to tell you all that i ordered some......NIPPLE TASSELS! lol. To be honest it was only an impulse buy to make an online order enough to qualify for free postage, but I'm still a bit excited. Should be fun to try...

Hahaha, that is AWESOME. let us know how it turns out.

And I apologize, JAG, in my comment about hypocrisy in the male species. Of course there are hypocrites of every gender. I was venting. It's just something that personally, honestly I've seen in a ratio of a billion to one in favor of men. Maybe that has (unfortunately) just been my personal experience, and I do acknowledge that.

This is remotely related to breast size (in the sense of body acceptance)--I was at my friendly GYN yesterday and I mentioned a documentary I'd seen about labiaplasty, and how women get the impression there's something wrong with their naughty bits becuase they're comparing their bodies to ALTERED images. My doc said he has young girls come in to him asking him to "trim" them a little, then went on to describe a doctor at the hospital he works who was dismissed for doing just that, and he said the hospital "would not tolerate that nonsense," etc. and went on to vent a bit about how stupid it is for people to judge their bodies and to say how much variety there is and how it's all good, etc. He didn't know about the porn/photoshopped images thing, so I told him about it--he really listened intently.

I must say my respect for him went up a serious notch yesterday. I started out with a female gyno and kind of went to him reluctantly at first. I've come to really like him.
just_a_guy
QUOTE(karategrrl @ Sep 16 2010, 05:17 AM) *
Hahaha, that is AWESOME. let us know how it turns out.

And I apologize, JAG, in my comment about hypocrisy in the male species. Of course there are hypocrites of every gender. I was venting. It's just something that personally, honestly I've seen in a ratio of a billion to one in favor of men. Maybe that has (unfortunately) just been my personal experience, and I do acknowledge that.

This is remotely related to breast size (in the sense of body acceptance)--I was at my friendly GYN yesterday and I mentioned a documentary I'd seen about labiaplasty, and how women get the impression there's something wrong with their naughty bits becuase they're comparing their bodies to ALTERED images. My doc said he has young girls come in to him asking him to "trim" them a little, then went on to describe a doctor at the hospital he works who was dismissed for doing just that, and he said the hospital "would not tolerate that nonsense," etc. and went on to vent a bit about how stupid it is for people to judge their bodies and to say how much variety there is and how it's all good, etc. He didn't know about the porn/photoshopped images thing, so I told him about it--he really listened intently.

I must say my respect for him went up a serious notch yesterday. I started out with a female gyno and kind of went to him reluctantly at first. I've come to really like him.



No harm, no foul. I'm sure I've done the exact same thing at one point or another (probably when venting about divorce or custody laws that blindly favor women) and, on the particular issue of porn, you may be right that there is significantly more hypocrisy in men. I tend to have the idea stuck in my head that more men than women are hypocritical about reciprocating oral sex (which may or may not be true, I honestly don't know), but the truth is that it's based on anecdotal data at best, so I try to state that when I start running my mouth about it.

I try my best to be objective when I rant tongue.gif

Out of curiosity, are you in the UK? (or was the documentary you saw produced there?) I ask because I've seen a a number of documentaries out of the UK on just that issue (and in particular how the procedure is on the rise in the UK) in the past few years, and in progressively younger women.

To bring the thread fully back on topic, a friend of mine forwarded a link to me about a documentary entitled "My Small Breasts and I," but I haven't had a chance to watch it through yet.
karategrrl
QUOTE(just_a_guy @ Sep 16 2010, 02:12 PM) *
Out of curiosity, are you in the UK? (or was the documentary you saw produced there?) I ask because I've seen a a number of documentaries out of the UK on just that issue (and in particular how the procedure is on the rise in the UK) in the past few years, and in progressively younger women.

The doc was made in the UK, though I'm not there. Someone posted a link to it in the "vages of all shapes and sizes" thread.
just_a_guy
QUOTE(karategrrl @ Sep 16 2010, 12:54 PM) *
The doc was made in the UK, though I'm not there. Someone posted a link to it in the "vages of all shapes and sizes" thread.


Was it the one with the artist who was casting them in plaster?
karategrrl
QUOTE(just_a_guy @ Sep 16 2010, 08:46 PM) *
Was it the one with the artist who was casting them in plaster?

Hmmm, no, don't remember that. Though I saw it on YouTube so maybe it was not the full version?

Hope this is not TMI, but a few days ago I had a mole removed from near my naughty bits (that's why I was at the GYN). Even with a local anesthetic, it HURT. I cannot imagine the pain of actually having part of your labia cut off.
KeraBear
QUOTE(just_a_guy @ Sep 15 2010, 02:06 PM) *
On a side note, I don't think anybody said kera overreacted because it bothered her that her BF was looking at porn. I know I suggested that she might have reacted more agressively than she would have over just pornography because of the other things going on in her life at that particular moment (only kera can truly answer that one).


Yea, my really bad day made me react more aggressively for sure. How would i reacted on a normal day? I dunno. But my feelings were real anyways. I just could have expressed them better.

Ha ha, i highjacked this thread singlehandedly for awhile, didn't I? So true that porn is a hot button issue... fortunately Starship showed up just in time to bring the topic around to more fun things! Nipple tassles, anyone? LOL!!

And on Karategrrl's last comment. Umm... ouch? *shudders*

karategrrl
Yep, porn IS a really hot button--touches everyone in some way (or should I say some touch themselves, ha)?!
just_a_guy
QUOTE(karategrrl @ Sep 20 2010, 09:48 AM) *
Yep, porn IS a really hot button--touches everyone in some way (or should I say some touch themselves, ha)?!



No comment tongue.gif

@Kera: insert either "you're MOM hijacked this thread" or "you can hijack my thread any day" comment here.
KeraBear
LMFAO! You peeps are terrible... but in a good way. wink.gif
karategrrl
Arrrrgh, just what the world needs--another vehicle for the objectification of women.

http://www.lflus.com/
buttercups
ughhh, that makes me so mad!
buttercups
but at the same time why do women keep feeding into this crap?? we women are perpetuating it by participating in it! they can't do "lingerie football" without women willing to wear the lingerie! I wish we would stop being our own worst enemies and start respecting ourselves so that men will!
just_a_guy
To be completely honest, I'm so-so on the lingerie, but I hate the football. Boring as shit as far as I'm concerned. I do wish that they'd select a wider variety of body types though. I mean, if we're going to objectify can we at least get a little variety tongue.gif
karategrrl
QUOTE(buttercups @ Sep 23 2010, 08:18 PM) *
but at the same time why do women keep feeding into this crap?? we women are perpetuating it by participating in it! they can't do "lingerie football" without women willing to wear the lingerie! I wish we would stop being our own worst enemies and start respecting ourselves so that men will!

AMEN, sistah!!!!! I SO feel you. Seriously, no wonder men learn this kind of crapola is okay. And yes, it wouldn't be so offensive if at least there was more body variety. (I wonder if implant rupture is s concern among the players, snicker...)

It does look like many of the women are playing the game seriously, but wearing THAT? It boggles my mind that many of these players, I suppose, really think they are showing women's empowerment. I mean, there's totally nothing wrong with being body-proud, but for a rough sport like football to be played in bras and hotpants, it's such an obvious gawk show it's ridiculous. Compare that to female professional volleyball players--they're just about as naked, but the nature of the sport dictates totally restriction-free gear. (Not to mention they're not all gussied up with sparkles and eyeliner.)
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