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karategrrl
Hey hey DeeRay!

Well, I could write a book (as some of you know) but for now I'll share a few random thoughts. I'm sure others will add.

1. Welcome! I'm so glad you've posted here! If you are feeling like this, this is certainly the place to be.

2. I'm sure you loved him, but your ex sounds like an insensitive ass. And not to man-bash, but in my "old" age I've come to find that most men are entirely insensitive about women's body issue sensitivities, especially the younger they are. His asking over the phone about your cup size was totally fucking stupid. I mean, did you ask him to whip out a ruler and give you his measurements? (Sorry, venting!) wink.gif Sounds like you totally accepted him while you did not get this in return.

3. I'm surprised gay men teased you--they're usually very appreciative of women. And yes, I realize that is a blanket statement! wink.gif And it always astounds me when folks from a "group" that often gets bashed will bash others; I mean, they must know it it sucks and hurts.

4. You gave me flashbacks. My first serious BF, in high school, was a lot like your guy. Long story short, According to him my ass was too fat and tits too small. Looking back, I have the perspective to realize that I was not all that bad; I was pretty but just VERY insecure and had never built up any sort of confidence. HE was no great shakes physically so was really in no place to talk. But I couldn't see any of that then.

5. Despite all that, I doubt his choice to date you or the other girl was based entirely on breasts. Like we've discussed here, women are lovely "packages" (pardon that word) made up of SOOOOO much more than breasts.

6. At first, it sounded like your BF was appreciating you and your breasts, but your later comments make it sound like he was "settling." This may be hard to hear, but I have to say it; you may not consider yourself lucky to have had this experience, but at least you found out relatively early what he was really made of. Some women are MARRIED to men like this.

7. And this may be even harder to hear, but honey, I'm sure you are gorgeous and beautiful and talented and sensitive and have a bazillion other fantastic qualities--both physical and otherwise--that if some asshat can't recognize them and treat you like the goddess you are, he just plain doesn't deserve you.

Again, welcome. This is a safe and supportive community. Glad you found us. <<<hugs>>>

Post more!!
dj-bizmonkey
welcome DeeRayy! i hope you enjoy being part of this community. i stumbled upon bust when i was your age. makes me sound ancient but probably only about a decade older than you smile.gif

i have definitely had to deal with boyfriends like yours in my past and they are soooo not worth your tears. number one, yes, they are likely interested in the whole package, not just parts of it. number two, even if they find some part of you lacking, telling you about in direct or indirect ways is just immature and insensitive. my current bf's dick curves noticeably to the right. i think it looks funny, but i would never TELL him that. i just adjust myself in the other direction when we're having sex. that being said.....

QUOTE(DeeRayy @ Mar 7 2011, 01:11 AM) *
It finally reached a boiling point when one day I finally just asked him if he could change anything about me what would it be, and sure enough he said, "well, you know how I said I was a boob man? Well there you go." All I could do was cry that night, and I ended up feeling worse and worse about my body. I felt ashamed and inadequate. And he just started to get impatient with me, and rather than comforting me he just kept telling me to let it go and that he was with me because of other things. I guess he just didn't understand how sensitive the issue was for me.


i don't want to sound harsh, but you did flat out ask him. i think a good lesson here would be to understand why you did. what answer were you expecting from him? were you hoping he would say something totally different or did you think this would just confirm your fears? i don't necessarily think he's an asshole for answering something you asked him pointblank. i do think he's an asshole for telling you he's a boob man while you were getting intimate though. we're all vulnerable in bed and that is the worst time to talk frankly about any sexual matter. i think he probably DID have a clue as to how sensitive you were about it (otherwise why would you ask or keep bringing it up) but you can only build a person up so much before your patience runs thin. and THAT being said....

QUOTE(DeeRayy @ Mar 7 2011, 01:11 AM) *
So, out relationship ended a few weeks after that. To make things worse, it turns out he had left me to pursue another girl who was much bustier than I, and we never talked again. But honestly, I don't think he was just leaving me simply to be with some girl with a bigger rack. I mean I'm sure her boobs didn't hurt, but I feel like my insecurity made it too hard to be with me, and that it was my own fault that he left me for her.


it sounds like you've got some really good insight here. i don't know that you need to play the blame game and say, oh it is all my fault that he left me, but i DO think your insecurity played a role. in the end, like karategrrl said, you don't want to be with someone who is just 'settling' for 'enough.' no one, no one's body, no one's personality is perfect. the difference between the people we end up with and the people we don't is that the things we love about our partner overshadow the things we might change if we could wave a magic wand. and we don't spend much time thinking about the things we could change. i think as we age as well, the things we might change become more about behavior and much less about the physical.

the take home point is this. if you don't want men to obsess over the fact that you have small breasts, then you have to stop obsessing about it. a guy might not even notice, i.e. he knows your breasts are small but doesn't think that deeply about it. but if you harp on it long enough he may think, yeah, actually your breasts are too small. what has finally worked for me in the end is to think that my breasts just are. they exist. i hate the term flat because we aren't flat. if you place a level across our nipples, i'm sure it would not read plumb! your breasts are just one part of you. it is important to take the value judgment out of something that is just descriptive. i have a big ass, thick thighs, a tiny waist and even tinier breasts. not good, not bad, my body just IS and i love it for that. it gets me from point A to point B and gives me significant pleasure. i've got small breasts and my attitude these days is, and??????

hang tough DeeRayy and thanks for sharing!

i think it is especially challenging just because of our culture. having a breast fetish isn't 'natural' in the sense that it just comes from instinct. sorry, that is just a load of horseshit. much of Katherine Dettwyler's work has shown that at all. in her book on the biocultural perspective of breastfeeding, she refers to a cross-cultural study done in the early 1960's. in it roughly 160 traditional cultures were surveyed, and out of these only 13, THIRTEEN, viewed breasts in a sexual way, i.e. breasts were touched, fondled, used during sexual contact. that should give you pause. this isn't something that is hardwired into us people, and i think a lot of men (and women) are uncomfortable with that fact. here is her website if you ever want to read some of her commentaries. one of my favorite anthropologists: http://www.kathydettwyler.org/
secretsights88
Welcome DeeRayy! smile.gif

Well, I can say I relate A LOT. Now I don't have many problems with my breasts, sometimes I do wish they were bigger but for the most part, I've stopped focusing so much on them (I'm 22, but when I was a teen until I was around, well, 21 I cared A LOT!). I don't know how it worked, but I guess I just started realizing that they fit my body, that they look good naked, they are sensitive, and there are a lot of hot women who have even smaller breasts than I do (I'm an A cup too), who are well, HOT, and a lot of guys think so too.

But I remember when I first had a boyfriend... the first months were perfect and he made me feel like I was the most beautiful/sexiest woman on Earth! Until he started getting more comfortable with me, and started um, "sharing" a bit more than I would've liked. What I mean is, while watching TV for instance he'd go "Wow, she's hot!", without being asked, and when he noticed my being uncomfortable with it, would just joke about it... sometimes he'd even tease me while we were IM'ing, like he'd show me a pic of some hot girl he liked and ask me "How can you NOT think she's hot?!". All these women were really busty. That gave me some doubts that maybe he didn't like my breasts.

He was very appreciative of my ass, hips and thighs, despite having cellulite. He especially liked the way my waist and hips contrasted so much, and that it looked quite curvy. This was good for me, since I spent many years in high school being teased by OTHER GIRLS about having "such big hips, omg they're enourmous!". But then there was a time in which I lost some weight, I didn't notice any breast shrinkage, but he made me notice. He went "Is there anything you can eat or do to make them bigger naturally? Since you've lost weight they're smaller", I asked "Is there a problem with that?", he said "Well, I wouldn't like them to be THAT small!".

Funny how just one comment can break your level of security with a person. It was like he planted a seed in my brain. I was not enough for him. Then it all made sense as to why all the girls he told me were hot were busty. I didn't care that many other men even prefer small breasts. No. Because the man I loved and accepted entirely did not accept me in the same way. And I only cared about the opinion of that man.

I also made the mistake of asking him if he'd like my body better if I had bigger breasts. He said yes. Of course...

I left him because of other things, but the point is yes, sometimes just a single comment made by a significant other can really be harmful. But with time I have learned to accept that if a guy doesn't like my breasts, well, it's his problem, not mine. If he really, really feels he's settling, I can kick his ass to the curb. If he feels my breasts are hot, then he's welcome in my bed.

But what I find most interesting is that as guys grow up, they start being more mature about these things. It takes time, though. They start getting better about this kind of stuff at about 25. They start appreciating more diverse types of beauty or even flat out reject the typical "hot" girl stereotype and go for what THEY like...

Some men never change, though. But those types of men are usually losers, so you really don't want anything to do with them. In that regard, I think it is good to be a bit selfish... if a guy is not willing to accept you 100% then fuck him, you don't have to accept him back.
DeeRayy
QUOTE(karategrrl @ Mar 7 2011, 05:18 AM) *
Hey hey DeeRay!

You gave me flashbacks. My first serious BF, in high school, was a lot like your guy. Long story short, According to him my ass was too fat and tits too small. Looking back, I have the perspective to realize that I was not all that bad; I was pretty but just VERY insecure and had never built up any sort of confidence. HE was no great shakes physically so was really in no place to talk. But I couldn't see any of that then.


Yes, my ex was far from my dream guy as well, but I was sooo attached to him that I didn't care at all. I guess that 's what got to me. That I could look at him and see nothing wrong, yet he couldn't do the same. In the end that's how I knew we weren't right for each other. And, I see now that guys my age are often still very immature and insensitive. But that just kinda makes me worry that i'm gonna have to wait a looong time until I meet guys who aren't like that.

QUOTE(dj-bizmonkey @ Mar 7 2011, 06:09 AM) *
i don't want to sound harsh, but you did flat out ask him. i think a good lesson here would be to understand why you did. what answer were you expecting from him? were you hoping he would say something totally different or did you think this would just confirm your fears?


Yes, I realize now that asking him his opinion on my body was a big mistake. I guess it just really bothered me that he was sending me mixed signals about the way he felt about my breasts, so in a way I just wanted him to stop beating around the bush. But, I learned my lesson and would never ask a guy that question again


QUOTE(dj-bizmonkey @ Mar 7 2011, 06:09 AM) *
the take home point is this. if you don't want men to obsess over the fact that you have small breasts, then you have to stop obsessing about it. a guy might not even notice, i.e. he knows your breasts are small but doesn't think that deeply about it. but if you harp on it long enough he may think, yeah, actually your breasts are too small.


This makes a LOT of sense, and I know I need to focus on other things, and that my insecurity is probably the biggest flaw in my personality. I'm working on it, but it's easier said than done. It didn't really become an issue for me until the relationship started getting physical. Now that I look at things, I really don't think I should have sex until I sort out the issues I have with my body. But I'm not sure exactly how to start changing the way I feel about myself.



QUOTE(secretsights88 @ Mar 7 2011, 08:39 AM) *
Funny how just one comment can break your level of security with a person. It was like he planted a seed in my brain. I was not enough for him. Then it all made sense as to why all the girls he told me were hot were busty. I didn't care that many other men even prefer small breasts. No. Because the man I loved and accepted entirely did not accept me in the same way. And I only cared about the opinion of that man.


I know, it's amazing how hurtful one single comment can be. The thing is, his comment kind of made me worry that a lot of other men are obsessed with boobs and that a lot of other men would end up "settling" for me, as karategrrl said earlier. I guess it just makes me worry that the majority of guys my age think the same.
KeraBear
Welcome DeeRay!!

I don't know what else that I can add. Everybody else gave such awesome advice. And yeah, I hope you have already discovered this to be a safe place! I can sort of relate to you though, I didn't get my first real BF until late in my high school career, too. Part of it was because I was also wracked in insecurities too mostly surrounding my little booblets and also because I am so short and "boyish" (i hate that term, but hey, it fit). Like you, it was mostly the other girls that gave me crap about them. Everybody was more womanly than me, even my lil sis, and I believed it. I guess I looked out with my BF because he absolutely adored them (my booblets). Maybe if he reacted the way yours did, I wouldn't have such a bright outlook. But you know what? Yeah, just because another man appeciated them should not matter, really. We shouldn't let anyone - man or woman - define us! But I am not going to lie... it does help knowing that they are out there.

By the way, you Busties may have noticed that I referred to my BF in the past tense. It's cuz he broke up with me recently. sad.gif He was my first and we were together for over a year. I even lost my virginity to him, so yeah, I am really feeling hurt right now (cried myself to sleep). It was one of those "it's not you, it's me" situations, whatever that means. But I do not regret the relationship because I learned so much about myself. I guess I should of saw it coming because we had been seemed to be growing further and further apart lately. I guess one of my struggles with moving on is before we got together, boys were not exactly lining up for me. The bustier girls got more attention than me, and I am afraid that I am going to become invisible again.... but then I think about all the things I learned from you all since coming here and I remember that these thoughts are silly. I am hot! I am going to take some advice that Karategrrl gave me via PM and spend some time as a single gal and further "develop my kickass self"! smile.gif

I am graduating soon and I cannot wait for college. We'll compare notes, DeeRay, and help each other survive college as small Busties!
KeraBear
QUOTE(secretsights88 @ Mar 7 2011, 11:39 AM) *
If he feels my breasts are hot, then he's welcome in my bed.


QUOTE(secretsights88 @ Mar 7 2011, 11:39 AM) *
... if a guy is not willing to accept you 100% then fuck him



Wait... so which is it? wink.gif
Anne_Ecdote
No Shoes.

Perspective.
DeeRayy
QUOTE(KeraBear @ Mar 7 2011, 07:03 PM) *
He was my first and we were together for over a year. I even lost my virginity to him, so yeah, I am really feeling hurt right now (cried myself to sleep). It was one of those "it's not you, it's me" situations, whatever that means. But I do not regret the relationship because I learned so much about myself. I guess I should of saw it coming because we had been seemed to be growing further and further apart lately. I guess one of my struggles with moving on is before we got together, boys were not exactly lining up for me. The bustier girls got more attention than me, and I am afraid that I am going to become invisible again


I know how you feel. Moving on from the guy you lost your virginity to is tough. And I felt exactly the way you did, that I was gonna be invisible once again. But I think it should be noted when I first started college I found that a lot, if not most, of my friends had not even had their first boyfriend yet! I guess it's because we were all more busy chasing grades than chasing boys, which is a good thing. I wouldn't advise getting into a committed relationship too soon in college. I would say this past year has been all about finding myself, and I've learned a lot this year. If anything, it's been the most interesting and exciting year of my life so far,and i've been single the whole time!
karategrrl
QUOTE(secretsights88 @ Mar 7 2011, 04:39 PM) *
But with time I have learned to accept that if a guy doesn't like my breasts, well, it's his problem, not mine. If he really, really feels he's settling, I can kick his ass to the curb. If he feels my breasts are hot, then he's welcome in my bed.

OMG, this was great.

And DeeRayy, nothing says you MUST date men only your own age; if/when you wnat to date, you could date someone a little older. wink.gif
karategrrl
Wow, I just clicked the banner on top of this web page and found this site...scroll down for the Valentine's photo of a HOTTTT grrl with small breasts. Yeah, I'll say it. Small tits are hot.
yoga for indie rockers
DeeRayy
Thanks for all the great advice and warm welcomes everyone! I appreciate it.

My next questions are directed towards the older and/or more confident women in this thread.
-Have you always had such a healthy attitude towards your body?
-If not, what helped you change the way you look at yourself?
-Did accepting your body take a long time? How long?

I'm asking because I feel very stuck as far as my body image is concerned. I literally have to look away from my bedroom mirror while changing because I get frustrated and ashamed at what I see. It's been like this for a year without any real improvement.

It's weird because I was able to successfully deal with other insecurities in the past. For example, I have a nose that's on the bigger side. Not bulbous or anything, just large (think lea michele, i have a similar facial structure to hers). But i was able to accept it with a little time and maturity, and now I kinda like my nose and I feel like it makes me, well ME.

But somehow the issues I have with my breasts are different, and much stronger. One thing I will say is that it didn't become an issue until I started having sex. Even in the early stages of dating my ex, my breasts didn't cause me much grief. Sure, I had always wished they were bigger but I used to just throw on a a good bra and call it a day. But as soon as we started getting physical, I felt EXTREMELY vulnerable and insecure about my breasts, and pretty soon, it was all I could think of when we were getting intimate. Heck, I wasn't even able to enjoy myself because of it!

And now it's sort of carried on into my everyday life. And the though of getting intimate with another guy honestly scares the sh*t out of me now.
buttercups
Hi DeeRayy, welcome to this wonderful group! I'm not the most confident chick on here of course, but I feel compelled to respond because I can relate to you and your feelings of insecurity so much. I'm really sorry that your confidence has been so rattled by your ex, but it sounds like you have so much more insight on everything than I ever did in those kinds of situations and you are already on your way to healing and getting that confidence back. Even though I can't offer a lot of advice on body acceptance, I can tell you that it is possible to be intimate with someone again even with really strong fears and insecurity about your breasts. I know it's not the ideal situation, but don't feel like it is never something you can ever do again because I thought that too and I was able to reach a level of comfort with another person again that I thought I never would be able to do.

I was with my ex for 6 years and part of why I stayed with him for so long even though I wasn't really in love anymore was because I hated my body so much and I was terrified of having to expose myself to another human being. The thought of it made me want to be celibate for the rest of my life- no joke! Well eventually that relationship was no longer working and after we broke up I developed a crush awhile later on my current bf. I was really scared though because I didn't know how he would react to my body and I didn't even want to put myself in that position. I decided to pursue it anyways with an " I'll worry about the intimacy part later" attitude. We got to know each other better and liked each other more and it started looking like I was going to have to face this soon and I didn't exactly know how. One night we were making out and had never done anything else because I couldn't let it happen and he grabbed my chest- I was so embarrassed because I was wearing 2 bras to hide my less than AA cups ( might help to know that some girls like me would kill for your A's!) and I sorta freaked out for a second and told him I wasn't ready. A few weeks later the truth came out that I was really insecure about my breast size and I felt a little more prepared to tell him because we had taken it slower and felt like I could trust him at that point. I waited until I knew he really cared about me, and exposing my chest to him still wasn't fun and was very scary, but by going at my own pace I was able to do it. He was extremely understanding and said it didn't matter to him how big my boobs were. 3 years later we are still together and he has never said anything negative about my chest and I feel very lucky about that. Just goes to show you that there are good guys out there and that each one of us deserves nothing less.

I can't say that being with an accepting guy has really helped me as much as it probably should, because I am still very insecure and still can't look at myself in the mirror either when I'm getting changed because it makes me feel very bad about myself. The acceptance definitely has to come from within and not from any guy, because if it could come from a guy then I would be 100% over this. Having sex still isn't the easiest thing for me to do and I go through periods where I avoid it altogether because I worry that I'm disappointing my bf or that I'm inadequate even though he hasnt given me any indication of that- he is a very patient man to put up with me haha. I'm certainly not advocating for leading this kind of life because no woman should have to feel this bad about herself, but would like to offer you some reassurance that if this crazy headcase can manage to be with someone else you can too. Just take your time and go at your own pace and you will reach a level of trust in the other person. It is in no way easy, but it can be done. Hopefully though you will be able to move past this and not have to worry about any of this anyways because you will see that you are truly beautiful.




karategrrl
buttercups, what a thoughtful and insightful response. I'm moved by your reaching out to DeeRayy. Okay, let me shut up before I reach for the fucking Kleenex....I can get so emotional! Everything moves me!

Buttercups, it's wonderful how you spoke up and told your BF you weren't ready. Empowering! Yes, the power of our voices.

DeeRayy, as one of the <ahem> "cougars" here, I'll respond to your question.

-Have you always had such a healthy attitude towards your body?
NO! I was always TERRIBLY insecure and self-conscious. It wasn't until I took a dance class in college (gym requirment) that I began to gain just a tad of confidence. It was like I was afriad of anyone even looking at me, or of holding a physical place in space, if that makes any sense. I think sports, etc. at a younger age would have helped me a lot but I didn't not have parents who supported sports. I might have pursued gymnastics but in my shcool you had to wear a leotard with bare legs to be in the gymnastics club and there was no way in holy hell I could do that. Even in grammar school they had a dance club but I was horrified at the thought of wearing anything clingy. Nope, no way. Looking back, it was tragic I missed out on that experience just because I was so horrified about my body.


-If not, what helped you change the way you look at yourself?
Hmmm...sorry to be so generic, but for me I have to say it's just been an exponential building of life experiences. Most influential:

-Getting involved with the martial arts and training for over a decade in many styles; I developed an appreciation for my inner/outer strength, fighting spirit, and sense of my body as a marvelous machine that I am so blessed to live in. Part of that was also learning to yell, have a voice, and speak my mind--still a challenge for me at times and a tool I have to remind myself to utilize.

-Finding trance dance--not dance as a perfomrance but as a spiritual practice (Read anything by Gabrielle Roth and/or ask me more if interested in this topic).

-Eventually teaching some martial arts and yoga/dance fusion classes/workshops and doing modeling work, as all were vehicles that forced me to get up in front of peopel and fake confidence. I found I could actually be confident in small doses, and then it grew.

-Having young girls and their brothers as my martial arts students; being a guide, "big sister," and confidante and trying hard to instill in the girls a sense of confidence and, for the boys, just be a presence as a strong female leader. Many boys don't see that often enough.

-Having relationships with a few men who appreciated my body and, even more, having some sexual experiences with WOMEN who truly appreciated it and gave me some of the best compliments I've ever gotten. There is a certain power in being intimate with another understanding woman. I consider myself more on the hetero end of the spectrum, but I'll never forget the feeling of total acceptance, feeling lusted after and, yeah, girl power of those encounters.

-Growing older, maturing and achiveing some level of happiness and success in other areas of life, like work. I'm a writer, and people have told me they've cried after reading stuff I've written. I've had things published nationally. At those moments I don't give a flying fuck about my breast size. (But as you cAN see, I type with lots of typos!!! Spell Check saves me in my job. Here, I exercise my power to Not Give a Fuck when at all other times my spelling and grammar msut be perfect.)

-Knowing a few people with REAL body issues, who are a constant reminder of just how lucky I am. One of my best, lifelong friends has MD and lives life from a motorized wheelchair and needs caretakers to bathe, dress, use the bathroom. Yet he works, travels, lobbies for the rights of the disabled. So I have small breasts. Um, I can also WALK. Puts things in perpective.

-Being spiritual and cultivating a relationship with God and myself; meditating; surrounding myself with supportive people; respecting fmaily and maintaining ties while doing your best not to let them ruffle your feathers (a fine line!)

-Staying active, working out and becoming physically strong; learning to love some thigns about my body such that I ALSO see those things--not just small breasts--when I look in the mirror.

-Reading and listening to inspiring, uplifting books and music--anything that makes you feel empowered.

-Developing a sense of fashion style, especially learning what styles, colors, etc. flatter me and what makes me look like shit and should therefore be avoided. Some might say this is a silly thing, but when you feel good, you look good. And others think you look good. This is definitely one of those things I also did NOT have when younger. I envied the girls who looked "good." I was a tomboy and wore my brother's clothes.

-Discovering this forum. smile.gif


-Did accepting your body take a long time? How long?

Your mileage may vary, but my journey began in earnest in my mid-20s and I'm almost 42, and I know it will continue for the rest of my life. If you're here asking these sorts of questions, I think you are well on your way. wink.gif I have a couple good female frineds in their 60s and I love how they just don't give a SHIT! They inspire me. I think you often just care less and less what people think as you get older and live your life.

All this said, remember that body acceptance is an ongoing journey, not a destination to be gotten to as quickly as possible. I still have bad days, and yes, running into a pretty woman with the size tits I'd like can send me into a fucking tailspin, as can flipping through a lingerie catalog. But I'm getting better at focusing on the bigger picture of my life and body, surrounding myself with good peopel who value me as I am (and learning how to better handle those who I MUST deal with) and realizing that my breasts are only a small (pardon the pun) part of it all.
karategrrl
Fuck, that was long. Sorry.
KeraBear
QUOTE(karategrrl @ Mar 10 2011, 09:58 AM) *
Fuck, that was long. Sorry.


Well ... considering how supportive and meaningful your words are, I think we can issue you a pass. I, for one, appreciate your novels! smile.gif
DeeRayy
to buttercups and karategrrl, thank you very much! i just read your responses and they were very appreciated.

I know accepting myself won't be easy but i'm definitely going to keep trying. Honestly, the best technique for me is simply focusing on other things, whether it be school, family, friends, or hobbies.

I also have another question for you all (yes, i'm chock full of questions).

I have a bit of a toxic friendship going on right now with one of my oldest and closest friends.

He goes to a big shot fashion school in los angeles, but we are both commuter students this year and keep each other company. to state the problem in it's simplest form, he is both VERY shallow (i can thank the atmosphere at his school for making that worse) and very insecure at the same time, which causes him to be judgmental and make snide remarks all the time. this is literally a recent quote from him [a little compacted, but this is the main idea]-
"i don't have ugly friends because ugly people usually lead such boring lives and are always stuck at home. But pretty people have actually gone out and done stuff and met people."

he's changing so much (in my opinion, for the worse) and i care about him but i honestly cringe sometimes when my phone rings and i see his name on my caller id. it's not that i don't enjoy talking to him, because i do and we have loads of fun together because we are both very playful, and we've been through a lot together so i'm hesitant to throw the friendship away so quickly.

He knows very well that my body, especially my breasts, are a big issue for me and yet he still goes around commenting on women's bodies and it makes me frustrated and uncomfortable. He'll go on and on about how some of his friends from school are very busty and attractive, and idk if he does this on purpose to make me feel bad or if that's just the way he is. I feel like he doesn't like seeing me feel good about myself, or that he sees himself as better than me and belittles most of the things i do. he doesn't do my self-esteem and body image issues any good, and i just feel like he's not someone i should be associating myself with if i want to improve the way i feel about myself.

so, would you say that i should try to work through this or slowly cut off contact?
karategrrl
>I know accepting myself won't be easy but i'm definitely going to keep trying. Honestly, the best technique for me is simply focusing on other things, whether it be school, family, friends, or hobbies.

It takes time. Be gentle with yourself.

>I also have another question for you all (yes, i'm chock full of questions).

This is the place to ask!

In response to your question (and I will try to keep this short!) I think it's right and healthy for you to be questioning your friendship with someone who makes you feel bad. Remember too that he may be going through some stuff since he is insecure (we all are in some way). The fashion world is really tough for those who don't look "right," dress right or fit in, and he's responding to his new environment. That said, if you feel better distancing yourself a bit, you have every right to, and it's up to you if you shoose to be honest with him and say why (as tactfully as you can, of course). Keep in mind that if he's a good friend, you two may get closer again, even after some distance. Relationships can ebb and flow--nothing's ever fixed in stone.

Just remember that you have total control over your end of things, and if you wish to introduce some distance, that's your right. And it might help you feel empowered over his comparisons and comments. Too bad, b/c you sound like a good friend and sensitive, deep person--his loss!

Or if you wish to stay in touch, you might try and introduce some comebacks (something I'm learning recently). For example, when he makes comments about "ugly" people, you could say, "Oh yeah, well what are you doing out, then?" Of course, not being mean--while smiling and chiding and joking as a friend. You could possibly stop his comments, at least in your presence, if he gets particular responses from you.

Or can you just level with him and tell him how his words make you feel?
KeraBear
Heeeeeeeeeeey, grrls! I guess it is up to lil ol' Kera to break the small boobie silence, huh?!? This may seem completely random, but I was wondering... what are your thoughts on ... nipples? You know when the headlights are activated! When they put on the party hats! I've heard some girls say that people have found it attractive or a turn-on or something, so they do not mind when it does happen. But for me, it is sort of the opposite. When I am, ahem, nipping out (which is actually ALOT. Nothing can tame them!), while it is drawing attention to the fact that I actually have boobs (always a nice reminder to the nay-sayers, I must say), it is also drawing attention to how I am smaller than the other girls because peoples' eyes are drawn to them, so they have to be thinking about that. Therefore, I have decided that I do not like them. I know, I know, this is a silly thing! I don't know why I was thinking about this today. I guess I have to much time on my hands. smile.gif
anarch
QUOTE(buttercups @ Mar 9 2011, 12:06 AM) *
I can't say that being with an accepting guy has really helped me as much as it probably should, because I am still very insecure and still can't look at myself in the mirror either when I'm getting changed because it makes me feel very bad about myself. The acceptance definitely has to come from within and not from any guy, because if it could come from a guy then I would be 100% over this.


If I recall correctly, your bf has some asshole buddies who regularly make derogatory comments about small boobs, so I can't imagine a woman who wouldn't feel insecure in that situation, having to hear that crap. It would keep me off balance, I'm sure. You're doing awesome. You may not be as secure as you want to become, but you've come a long way, baby.

DeeRayy, if he's a good friend, would he listen to you if you leveled with him as karategrrl suggests? "Dude, those kinds of comments make me feel bad about myself. Could you please not do that around me?" kind of thing.

KeraBear, my headlights are always on, too. I complained once to a guy (we'd been flirting heavily back and forth) that I've got too much erectile tissue in my nipples. The look on his face! I could see the gears in his brain stall and go kaput as sexythoughts took him over. Turned out he was good at sucking them too. I don't mind my nipples drawing attention to my boobs, in the right context. Sure, my boobs are small, but anybody who judges me or them as inferior because of it isn't worth my time.
DeeRayy
QUOTE(KeraBear @ Mar 18 2011, 04:29 PM) *
I've heard some girls say that people have found it attractive or a turn-on or something, so they do not mind when it does happen. But for me, it is sort of the opposite. When I am, ahem, nipping out (which is actually ALOT. Nothing can tame them!), while it is drawing attention to the fact that I actually have boobs (always a nice reminder to the nay-sayers, I must say), it is also drawing attention to how I am smaller than the other girls because peoples' eyes are drawn to them, so they have to be thinking about that.


I found this so funny to read because my nipples are the one(or two...?) part of my boobs that I do like! I don't think any guy could ever NOT be turned on by the site of a girl's nipples, no matter what kind of boobs they are attached to. That's actually one of my favorite perks of being small, the fact that i'm so sensitive there. from my experience my breasts, especially my nipples, are so sensitive it's actually overwhelming to have a guy play with them too rough or too long (is this tmi?)

anyway, you don't have any reason to feel that way. the only type of men that should be turned off by the site of your nipples are gay men. and i agree with anarch totally. anyone that judges you because of your boobs obviously has insecurities of their own.

which reminds me of something a close teacher told me in high school last year when i was crying to her over what had happened with my ex bf. she told me "any guy who is predisposed with the size of your breasts obviously has size issues of his own, if you know what i mean." and that comment totally made me smile, because my ex was on the small side down there in man land. haha. oh, irony is sweet sometimes.

DeeRayy
i have mooore questions once again you guys!

ok, so i was doing alright (not great, but alright), the last couple of weeks. but for some reason, this last week i just felt horrible about my appearance. i really don't know what brought it on, but it was BAD. i'm talking calling my best friend on the phone crying about how i can't see how another guy would ever be attracted to me bad. oh god, i cringed just writing that last sentence.

it might have something to do with the last study session i attended at my university last wednesday for an art history final. i was in a good mood and we were waiting on my friend , let's call her hailey, to get there so we could start. and she is a rather busty girl. so when she came in i immediately noticed that her cleavage was like, all out. and not only did i notice, but so did every guy in the room. and they all spent the next few minutes sneaking peaks at her chest, including the really cool guy that i was just hitting it off with!

i felt invisible! i know that's the last thing i should be worried about when studying for an exam but it just kinda happened.

anyway, the next day i vented crying to my cousin/best friend on the phone and my mother overheard me (i commute to school to save money). we talked for a while and she actually suggested i get implants! i got upset, and she just said "i just think it would help your self esteem. you don't want implants but you're not happy with yourself naturally, i don't understand."

i just replied that implants are gross and that i didn't want them. what she doesn't get is that if i were to get them it would be for the completely wrong reasons. i don't mind being small but i get very down on myself about it because i feel so insecure about how guys will judge them.

idk what the actual question here is. but what are your thoughts on all the stuff that i just described?
buttercups
First of all, thanks anarch for saying that, though I'm not sure you'll think I've come that far after you hear this.

DeeRayy, *huge hug* god do I ever know exactly how you feel. I know that same sinking feeling where you just feel completely invisible and unattractive and it hurts so much that if you're anything like me you've even thought that you can't keep going on like this (not saying I'm suicidal or anything so no one worry I would never! But just sometimes get so down on my own insecurities and feel so bad about myself that it leaks into every other aspect of my life and feel like I just want to give up). Anyways, yeah it really hurts and I actually had some similar emotions last week. I was doing my women's health rotation for school which of course involved doing breast exams. I prepared myself beforehand knowing that I might feel bad about myself, but didn't quite know what I would do to handle it. Well, sure enough after a few days of having nothing but breasts in my face I couldn't help but feel inadequate and abnormal. Not that I was checking out all my patients haha, but I was waiting to see if there was at least one woman with a chest as small as mine and not a chance- no one even came close. It just made me feel more abnormal and like a freak of nature. I spiraled downwards and have been just starting to come out of it, though I go back for more this week ughhh. I guess it just reminded me of everything I don't have and how I'm not like other women and I desperately want to be just average like everyone else.

Anyways, in the midst of all this I decided to seriously consider giving myself implants for graduation. I'm just so goddamn sick of this and I would love to just get my boobs done, buy some normal-sized bras, and just never think about this again. I told my mom that come graduation in May I was going to do it and just get it over with, and she totally freaked out on the other side. My mom went beserk on me and told me that she thought I was stronger than this and a stronger person to resist societal expectations of what I should be. I told her I was doing it for me and she told me that it's ridiculous how I make my life all about my boobs and how superficial it is. I kinda hate when people make me feel like I'm being superficial because it is a very real, serious issue to me where I feel deformed, and I'm pretty sure I have body dysmorphic disorder so I can't really help my feelings, I take them very seriously. She told me that I would be a total idiot to risk my health for something like that and why can't I just accept myself for how I am (At this point I am kinda losing faith in that). She said I can't live in her house and do it, that she wants me completely moved out and that shes glad I might be moving away with my bf because she doesn't want to even look at me after. So see my mom had a very different reaction than yours DeeRayy. She claims to see girls in the ER at her work all the time with infections and crap from implants. Idk how true that is but yeah she totally flipped. Needless to say I'm still considering implants cause no one else has to live in my body and I'm unhappy with it, so I really just want to change it (don't kill me guys!). I also think my almost complete lack of breast tissue is different than girls who have at least an A cup- I would kill for that, so I look at it almost like reconstructive surgery.

But anyways, I totally understand your spiral DeeRayy and all I can say is we need to stay strong together. I wish I had better advice for you but just know that you are not alone. I'm very surprised at what your mother said and commend you for sticking up for yourself. My mother is on the other side of the extreme and while I wish she woudl understand my feelings on this matter, I guess it would be weird to me if she suggested it. You are a lot stronger than me though, I can say that. I wish we could all take some class on confidence together or something and support each other in real life, but I am rooting for you and everyone else here <3
DeeRayy
QUOTE(buttercups @ Mar 20 2011, 09:17 AM) *
I know that same sinking feeling where you just feel completely invisible and unattractive and it hurts so much that if you're anything like me you've even thought that you can't keep going on like this (not saying I'm suicidal or anything so no one worry I would never! But just sometimes get so down on my own insecurities and feel so bad about myself that it leaks into every other aspect of my life and feel like I just want to give up).


I think you should give this article a good read. i think it'll show you just how unhappy most women are with their bodies. the point of the article is that no woman is one hundred percent happy with their body all the time, and that although it's unrealistic to want to have a perfect body image, it is possible to combat those negative thoughts. so even though you said you think i'm stronger than you, i still have my moments when i feel so defeated that i don't wanna get out of bed.

i also think that the fact that you think you have body dismorphic disorder is a good reason to see a therapist rather than a plastic surgeon. i am a big advocate of talk therapy (heck, it's what i'm going to school for) and i think you would benefit from it. I've only been once but i'm gonna start going again soon because it helps you see the holes in your own logic, and it helps you see the bigger picture.

i actually do agree with your mother on the whole health thing. i seriously considered implants last year, but i read up on all of the health risks involved and i just knew i couldn't do that to myself, especially since (as i said before) i would only be getting them to please men if i did, not for myself.

i'm not judging you if you wanna get them for yourself. my mom wants to get a tummy tuck because c-section childbirth has left her with large amounts of excess skin, and i'm supporting her because she's doing it for herself and herself only.

however, i think you should take a long hard look at why you want to get them and what you think will happen after you get them. do you think your life will somehow magically be better once you get them? because it won't. i used to think, "oh, if only i had a boyfriend my life would be so much better". and when i finally got one, i still felt the same way about myself and there was no magic *poof! you're happy now!*. there was no actual increase in the quality of my life, and i'm actually much happier now that i'm single and going to college. so, if you want implants because you think they'll magically make you happier then you would be getting them for the wrong reasons.

and finally, there is nothing wrong with you in the first place! yeah, i might get down on myself for not looking like a maxim cover girl but i don't think that there is actually anything wrong with the fact that i have a nearly flat chest, it's just a physical trait.

as for me, i'm actually going to my doctor's office next week to start a nutrition and weight management class. my parents raised me on microwave foods and i don't know much about eating healthy and all that jazz, and while i'm not that big, i know i'm not as thin as i could/should be. so even though having bigger boobs might ease how insecure i am with guys, losing my tummy would make ME a hell of a lot happier. and i have a younger sister that looks up to me, so i also think about what kind of an example i would be setting if i got implants.

anytime i feel down about my breasts i watch a good Audrey Hepburn move (she's my role model tehehe) and it reminds me of how she was beautiful not only on the outside, but had a beautiful spirit and soul as well and that is why she is so iconic and was so loved when she was alive, and i'm sure she never let the fact that she had a very small bust stop her from pursuing her dreams.

but ultimately it's up to you. and if you do decide to get them please make sure you know what you're getting yourself into.

my god that was long....
secretsights88
Hello there girls... I'm a bit down about this whole breast thing, and all because of One. Stupid. Guy.

So there was this guy along more friends, and somehow breast size came up. Most guys were like "yeah, big is nice, but not the most important, I'll take anything", you know. But one of these guys (who thankfully is not a friend of mine) was like "Oh but it's hard wired [oh how I hate that 'excuse'] in men's brains to like big breasts better, we're not cavemen anymore, but those instincs are still there. It's not fair, but hey you women prefer a bigger penis too!" [again, that makes me ANGRY... two wrongs don't make a right]. Anyway, he's so wrong! NOOOOOO, NOT ALL WOMEN WANT A HUGE DICK!!!! It's not the same! Especially because breasts are "out there", unlike the dick which is safely concealed from people's eyes. Oh how I wish men had to walk with their stuff hanging out, literally, all day so they'd get a clue! And size has never been important... I care a lot more about a guy not being selfish in bed, which, sadly, is something that a lot of guys my age are.

It felt like he was saying "Sorry kiddo, you're just not good enough, but hey, that's life so just deal with it". And I especially hate the "oh women do it too!" kind of men who feel entitled to discriminate women based on looks just because supposedly women do it too (which yes, some women do, but hardly are they a majority AND the few that do are hardly a catch). In my experience, like I mentioned above, most women don't care much about looks, we just want a guy who's not a selfish pig.

Anyway... I, digress... I just came here for some body positive small breast support, and really thanks to the Universe for this forum because, really, it always brings my mood way up smile.gif

Re: implants, I think it can make life better for some women in some very particular cases. For instance, women who do it because they think it will automatically make men desire them more are going to be disappointed. But in other cases, in which men are not really a deciding factor, well... I can see it helping a bit more there. I think in buttercups' case it's more of the latter, because she doesn't seem to have huge expectations that implants will be a life changing experience, and things like being able to buy a more average selection of bras or feeling more comfortable in clothes might help. Now, I'm not encouraging buttercups to get implants, I think therapy needs to come first. But I think if she were to get implants, it'd be more for her own peace of mind than to impress men (or other women) and that's a healthier perspective I think.

And nippling (lol, cool term!), well, I like it on certain occasions (when I want to tease a guy for instance, or when I want to feel particularly female). But they are instant attention grabbers... so sometimes I haven't been able to deal with the attention (very appreciative I might add). So Kera... they get a LOT of attentio, but trust me, no one will be thinking "Oh, her boobs are TOO SMAL" (unless it's an envious female, which can happen... but most people will be like "wow!" and blushing... even other women).

Nipples are the sexiest part of the breast anyway. And (I might be biased), but I think that smaller breasts tend to have sexier nipples.

Now I'm feeling sexy... which always reminds me of a song by Peaches, "AA XXX"... I'm not a AA, I'm an A, but I also think XXX often so yeah... it's a fun little song... tongue.gif
Persiflager
*delurks*

I like what the Kama Sutra says about penis size - it's not about having a big penis, it's about having a penis that is a good fit with the relevant lady's vagina. Seriously, why do all the men who go on about penis size assume that all ladies have the same-sized lady-parts?

Also, in my experience it's a rare man who feels brave enough to stand up in a group and say that they don't care about breast size or that they prefer small breasts. The closest socially acceptable statement is what your friends said, 'big is nice but it's not important'. There seems to be this weird disconnect between what men actually find sexually attractive (which spans the whole gamut of women), and what they say they find attractive because it confers status upon them if they can get it (slim, busty, blonde?). I think that because society places a premium on big boobs, there can be an assumption that a man who says not really into that is only saying so because he doesn't think he can get it .

Anyway, I just meant that it sounds like most of your friends don't actually agree with this guy, and probably thought he was very immature.

*relurks*
enfermera
I just have to pipe up and put in my two cents: Anyone with true, diagnosable Body Dysmorphic Disorder is NOT going to benefit from plastic surgery. It can be a good option if you are emotionally and mentally stable and realistic about yourself, your thoughts and your body, but if you truly have this illness, your problems will continue and even be exacerbated by surgery. People with BDD tend to end up having more and more and more surgeries, because they continue to be dissatisfied and unable to see their bodies as they really are. Think Michael Jackson (I don't know for sure if he suffered from this, but the pattern is similar). They often think that there is just one problem, and once it is addressed they will be perfectly happy, but instead the discontent and exaggerated perception transfers to another body part, or makes you feel that the one surgery didn't quite make things perfect and you still need to be "tweaked." Buttercups, tread with caution. We love you and know you're beautiful inside and out!
strongirl
I am getting ready to head up to my favorite clothes optional hot springs today (yay! lots of folks with real, unaltered bodies and parts of every size, shape, and color, relaxing in nature together!) so I'm short on time but wanted to throw in a couple thoughts here.

Buttercups - while I am saddened by the social phenomenon and impact of implants and would not choose them for myself for a long list of reasons, I would still totally respect and admire you if you made that choice for yourself. I felt the same way about Spot-on's decision. Life is not infinite. If you're unhappy about something, it's good mental health to try to figure out what to change to improve things. My personal take on implants is that they would not make me any happier and would in fact decrease my quality of life and my heallth. But I can think of one study that showed that 70% of women with implants were glad they got them. Spot-on was happy with her choice. If I read in this forum that you got them and that you loved them, I'd be filled with joy for you, not judgment!

That said, I think you're getting some excellent advice from DeeRayy about working hard with a good therapist first. Not only could your head get healthier, your body won't suffer!

How did your bf's strip club outing go? I am short on time but did want to share a bit about a recent experience I had. I went to a strip club with my bf and another male friend of ours. They had been to it earlier in the week and wanted to take me (partly as a way of not making me feel excluded or stepped out on, I think). It was a totally fun evening and quite educational, LOL! One of the things my bf told me he liked about this club was that most of girls' body types were to his liking - small-breasted, slender, and petite. I was quite surprised to see that this was true. There was one augmented chick and a couple with largish (B+ to C cup) breasts, but the rest (maybe 10 girls?) were probably A cups. There were also some obvious figure "flaws" - tummies, loose skin here and there, cellulite - and I was again reminded that in spite of their posturing (like in the posts below), most men are damn happy to see naked women and they are WAY more forgiving of such "flaws" than most women are, to themselves or other women. The overall vibe was relaxed and friendly, not at all icky or hostile or sleazy. One of my bf's favorite dancers was a girl with no breast tissue to speak of but prominent nips. She had a tight, smokin hot body. I ended up not liking her enough to do a private dance because she had a rather snotty, detached demeanor. But yeah, the body - wow. She was quite popular with the guys. When my bf was getting drinks (non-alcoholic cuz it was an all nude club) I turned to our friend and asked if he had strong body type preferences or if he was pretty flexible. He said "Small tits...I just love small tits." He went on and on about it actually, how he can tolerate some extra body fat, he's cool with big hips or a tummy, but tit-wise he's a total sucker (ha!) for small breasts. He'd had a private dance earlier in the week from a girl with large fake ones, kind of for the novelty, and it was "awesome", but still not his body type preference and not what he'd want on a regular basis.

So ladies, I went to a strip club and it turned out to be an all-night small boobie love fest. Who'da thunkit? smile.gif




karategrrl
QUOTE(KeraBear @ Mar 19 2011, 12:29 AM) *
You know when the headlights are activated! When they put on the party hats!

When I am, ahem, nipping out (which is actually ALOT. Nothing can tame them!),

laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif
karategrrl
QUOTE(DeeRayy @ Mar 20 2011, 09:19 AM) *
my ex was on the small side down there in man land.

laugh.gif laugh.gif
You ladies are totally cracking me up today!!
karategrrl
QUOTE(strongirl @ Mar 21 2011, 02:08 PM) *
He said "Small tits...I just love small tits." He went on and on about it actually, how he can tolerate some extra body fat, he's cool with big hips or a tummy, but tit-wise he's a total sucker (ha!) for small breasts. He'd had a private dance earlier in the week from a girl with large fake ones, kind of for the novelty, and it was "awesome", but still not his body type preference and not what he'd want on a regular basis.

So ladies, I went to a strip club and it turned out to be an all-night small boobie love fest. Who'da thunkit? smile.gif

Certainly not I! And though I'm not a fan of the strip club phenomenon, I loved hearing that that guy's prefences were for SMALLIES! Yesss! I have no idea how you could go and not get totally tweaked and jealous over your BF grooving on all the women, small-chested or not. That would bug me! Though I have to say we had guests over on Sat on the guys were talking about Millla Jovovich and my hubby said "she's hot" and it didn't really bother me b/c her body is a lot like mine. I guess REAL women interacting with my hubby rather than a woman on the screen would bug me. And it doesn't hurt that I totally love Milla. And it was too funny, b/c hubby couldnt' remember or pronunce her name and I rattled it right off!! Ha.

And I have to check out that Peaches song!

My thoughts on the nip thing: People seem to loooove nips. I have found that I get serious staring from men when I'm flashing the high beams--not that I try to do that--they have a mind of their own!!!! Nips rock!

Love you ladies!

PS: I used the term "booblets" to describe my breasts over the weekend and my hubby thought that was the cutest, funniest thing!
buttercups
Thanks for all of your great insight as always ladies! That article was really good too DeeRayy, thanks for posting it! And secretsights88 I have been around quite a few guys like that and it always makes me feel bad too- what dicks! I completely agree with you that it is different for men because first of all I know few women who prefer a guy to have a big penis- none of us want our bits all torn up, it seems to be a total guy thing, and second of all yeah like you said theirs aren't on display all the time like our goods are. It makes it really annoying.

"Seriously, why do all the men who go on about penis size assume that all ladies have the same-sized lady-parts?"- exactly!!

Enfermera I agree that that does happen a lot with people with body dysmorphic disorder, but for whatever reason I don't think that will happen with me. Mainly because my breasts actually aren't really there- much less than an A cup, and I am just longing to look "average" or even just small-breasted instead of completely flat-chested. It seems to me like fixing a deformity. There are other parts of my body that I'm not crazy about, in fact I honestly can't really think of any part of me that I actually like, but I can handle that because at least even though I don't think my other body parts are particularly pretty at least they are there. It seems like I'm just missing something I don't know. I also don't think that implants would magically change my life or make me happy or anything, I just think that I would finally feel normal, like when a transgendered person finally goes through the transformation and they are finally at peace in their body. I don't feel like I look like my gender almost, so it would just be making me feel comfortable in my own skin, even though I know that skin still won't be perfect. I can live with imperfection, just give me all my body parts please! Does that make more sense?

Thanks for the support strongirl, and my god I admire your confidence. I would totally be with karategrrl on this one cause I am wayyyyy too insecure to let my bf watch naked girls in porn for chrissake, nevermind in real life. I think I would lose my mind with insecurity and jealousy, but I'm glad to hear about all the small boobie love! I always thought that strippers always had to have medium to big breasts for obvious reasons, so thanks for giving us the inside scoop haha because I would never have the courage to do it myself. As far as my bf's little outing, he claims that they never went to a strip club or antyhing and I've decided to trust him. I can't say I was very happy with him going though and did act kinda bitchy when he called. There was one night where we sorta got in a fight cause I was worried and then he went out with his friends and stayed out til 4 in the morning and didn't call or text me the whole night even when he knew I was worried about it. i just wanted one small text at some point before 4 am just saying good night, but I got nothing. That night I was worried about it but I think I'm being crazy and need to just back off, so I believed him when he said nothing went on and I'm giving the trust thing a better try, so we'll see how that goes...

Karategrrl I found it so interesting when you said you didn't mind your guy talking about Milla, I am the same way. I always cringe at watching naked scenes in movies with my bf, wondering if he's thinking about how inadequate I am. One time we watched a movie where the girl had really small boobs and I didn't care at all that he was watching it, in fact I wanted him to watch it and think she was hot so that maybe he could see that I wasn't so bad after all. It makes me wonder that if I had regular-sized boobs if I would even care if my bf was looking at porn and other things that upset me so much. I probably wouldn't care. I probably care now because it makes me feel so inadequate. If he wants to look at porn of flat-chested women, well I really don't think it would bother me at all. Very strange to come to that realization but I had it recently too.

Anyways, I'm feeling better today and second guessing the implants again. What a vicious exhausting cycle! I'm going to have to think long and hard about it. Thanks for offering so much support and insight guys, I also appreciate all of your honesty with me and this decision.


limousine
QUOTE
Enfermera I agree that that does happen a lot with people with body dysmorphic disorder, but for whatever reason I don't think that will happen with me. Mainly because my breasts actually aren't really there- much less than an A cup, and I am just longing to look "average" or even just small-breasted instead of completely flat-chested. It seems to me like fixing a deformity. There are other parts of my body that I'm not crazy about, in fact I honestly can't really think of any part of me that I actually like, but I can handle that because at least even though I don't think my other body parts are particularly pretty at least they are there. It seems like I'm just missing something I don't know. I also don't think that implants would magically change my life or make me happy or anything, I just think that I would finally feel normal, like when a transgendered person finally goes through the transformation and they are finally at peace in their body. I don't feel like I look like my gender almost, so it would just be making me feel comfortable in my own skin, even though I know that skin still won't be perfect. I can live with imperfection, just give me all my body parts please! Does that make more sense?


Hi buttercups, as you know, I am dealing with BDD myself. I have to speak up here and contend that it is the very nature of BDD to have the sufferer feel like their preoccupation will not transfer to another part of their body; same with the belief that there is a real deformity in the body.

For most people, emotions are usually a good indicator of what road to follow in life. However, for a BDD sufferer, emotions are not a reliable indicator. For this reason, a BDD therapy will especially focus on the real life consequences of the troubling body part. For BDD sufferers, the consequence of BDD is emotional pain caused by faulty logic and reasoning. You have to move away from the emotions to assess reality and readjust the two. Exemple : Do people call you less often for gatherings because of this? Do you think your professional life will be less successful because of this? Do you think people (at work or in college/university) talk about this aspect of your body behind your back?

In this sense, when you write that you don't feel like your gender, I would think that maybe you need to reconsider the basis of that feeling. Has anybody ever called you "Mister"? Do salespeople guide you to the men's section? For me, being a woman is something global and does not necessarily depend on this one body part. Do you remember when Marilyn Manson had a music video where he had breast implants (real, I presume)? Well, he still looked like a guy. To push the analogy further, a person with amputated legs does not bring about any questions about them belonging to the human race. A woman, with less or with more breast tissue, does not bring up the question of being a woman.

This said, for individuals struggling with a disability, a therapy may be more focused on responding assertively to people who inquire or tease. Or, with working around the limitations of the disability and focusing on the strengths that can be gained.
anarch
QUOTE(buttercups @ Mar 20 2011, 10:17 AM) *
First of all, thanks anarch for saying that, though I'm not sure you'll think I've come that far after you hear this.


(((buttercups))) I do indeed still think you've come far. Regardless of whether you go for implants one day or not. I could be wrong, but your comments read to me like you know yourself better now than before. That can only make somebody stronger, I think, and better prepared to make decisions that are fully conscious (vs. driven by subconscious demons or poorly grounded rationalizations). Maybe you don't feel like that's accurate, but that's my impression. Kindness to yourself feels, sometimes, slightly less strange than it might once have? (I suggest tentatively...maybe I'm barking up completely the wrong tree and if so, my apologies)

Just remember that feeling comfortable in our own skins is a long process, and there are setbacks and frustrations along the way. But we're in the same...maybe some of us are in not exactly the same boat, but at least the same fleet, dealing with the crosswinds and such? Cheering you on, anyway.
DeeRayy
QUOTE(buttercups @ Mar 21 2011, 06:14 PM) *
There are other parts of my body that I'm not crazy about, in fact I honestly can't really think of any part of me that I actually like, but I can handle that because at least even though I don't think my other body parts are particularly pretty at least they are there. It seems like I'm just missing something I don't know. I also don't think that implants would magically change my life or make me happy or anything, I just think that I would finally feel normal, like when a transgendered person finally goes through the transformation and they are finally at peace in their body. I don't feel like I look like my gender almost, so it would just be making me feel comfortable in my own skin, even though I know that skin still won't be perfect. I can live with imperfection, just give me all my body parts please! Does that make more sense?

buttercups, i know exactly how you feel! i have NEVER been able to feel like a real woman, and even though i may be an A cup, which you said you'd kill for, they are still very flat, especially without a bra on. so i still don't even see myself as heaving breasts, more like nipples with a TINY bit of cushion under them. anyway, i can totally relate to you when it comes to wishing you just had a pair. honestly, i wouldn't even want big ones. i just wish i could fill out a dang bra.

i actually had a moment where i felt really bad about my size again this morning(which is kinda why i'm on the thread right now). i don't know how many of you watch will and grace, but it's one of my favorite shows. long story short for those of you that don't watch it- the character of grace is labeled as flat chested in the show and sometimes jokes are made about it by the other characters. but she takes it in stride and doesn't let it bother her. anyway, i was watching it earlier this morning while waiting to drop my brother off at school and a scene came up where she walks into the room with just a bra and a skirt on so that will can help her pick out a blouse. and i remember pausing the television and saying to myself "oh god, i think i'm smaller than grace. oh god, if she's flat chested then what does that make me, a freak of nature???"

and every time i have a moment like that it makes me weigh out the pros and cons of implants. so you're not alone there.

however, i think limousine made some very good points in her post (btw limousine, bravo on your response! it was one of the best ones i've read.) i agree that although i have never felt like a woman i certainly don't think of myself as a man, although i do feel like my body is boyish sometimes. but i am clearly female to others, otherwise they wouldn't refer to me as "miss". maybe the media has distorted our definition of what it means to be a woman. maybe american society has conditioned us to equate curvy breasts with femininity. the problem might not necessarily be our bodies, but how we view them. so hang in there buttercups! i'm going through a lot of the same feelings you are right now and i know how tough it is.
karategrrl
QUOTE(limousine @ Mar 23 2011, 04:11 PM) *
In this sense, when you write that you don't feel like your gender, I would think that maybe you need to reconsider the basis of that feeling. Has anybody ever called you "Mister"? Do salespeople guide you to the men's section? For me, being a woman is something global and does not necessarily depend on this one body part. Do you remember when Marilyn Manson had a music video where he had breast implants (real, I presume)? Well, he still looked like a guy. To push the analogy further, a person with amputated legs does not bring about any questions about them belonging to the human race. A woman, with less or with more breast tissue, does not bring up the question of being a woman.

This was so well-said. Wow.
anarch
Abercrombie & Fitch fiasco re swimsuit, marketed for its push-up & padded cups, for prepubescent girls
auralpoison
World Map of Average Breast Size.

Where do people come up with this ridiculous shit? Seriously? I know they are intended to be humorous, but c'mon.

I found the comments section *interesting*, though. Yeesh. Our troll problems are wee.

Do note the peen map. Apparently the Sudanese & the Bolivians are packing some righteous tackle. rolleyes.gif

And on the A&F thing, my neighborhood growing was almost 100% little girls. At a certain point (Second grade, maybe?), one of the girls across the alley had been given a couple of her mom's Leggs eggs. She would tuck the bottom of her tshirt into the neck to create a low-cut crop top of sorts & then slip the Leggs eggs halves inside so she suddenly had hard plastic breasts. It wasn't long until we all had them & were tucking them into our bikini tops (the other girls across the alley had a pool!) & pretending we were Coors Light girls. I always removed mine before coming home because somehow I knew my mother would object . . .
DeeRayy
ickkkkk, its stuff like the comments on that world map of average breast size that makes me lose hope in guys.
secretsights88
DeeRayy, it is quite discouraging to know that a lot of guys comment stuff like that (I only read a couple comments for mental sanity). But we have to take it from where it comes... I mean that website can't be serious... and they did one on penis size prior to the one on breast size. Which means, it's a bunch of guys with the minds of 13 year olds. And I wouldn't like to be with a guy with the mind of a horny 13 year old boy trying to keep up a "macho" appearance just 'cause he's a loser who can't think for himself.

I think of men in terms of, say, diamonds or precious stones. You have to go through a lot of "non" precious stones before you find a keeper. But when you do, it's awesome. And there are some great men out there... the other busties in this forum can attest to that, since they have found lovely husbands or boyfriends.

But yeah, that website was probably made by guys (and for guys) who might even be insecure themselves, but who only know to cope by acting like 13 year olds who can't think for themselves.
auralpoison
Ooooops! Sorry. sad.gif I certainly wasn't trying to annoy anybody or start a shame spiral or whatever by posting that goofy map. I just thought it was a silly little bit of absurdist man-culture that was vaguely amusing in light of the recent release of census bureau statistics here in the US. Like, there was a census going on all over the world where super serious census takers were going door to door asking people about the number of penises & breasts in the home & the measurements of said organs, circumsized/uncircumsized, undergarment preferences, etc. It was just a bit of silliness, please don't take it seriously.
karategrrl
QUOTE(auralpoison @ Mar 30 2011, 08:12 PM) *
It was just a bit of silliness, please don't take it seriously.

No offense taken! Yeah, silliness.
karategrrl
This video is so awesome, and long overdue. I've signed up for the "conscious man" e-mailings.

Dear Woman
strongirl
Wow, Karategrrl, that brought tears to my eyes. Thanks for sharing. I've been very lucky to know a lot of good men with similar perspectives. I'm happy these guys are spreading the word.

DeeRayy
That video was very touching, and I really wish there were more men out there like that. But I do disagree with the part about pornography. It's one thing when you are forced to do something, but I feel like many (not all, but many) women participate in porn voluntarily. The past can't be undone, but I believe that if women today want respect we should all also make a conscious effort to respect our own bodies first. Of course, that last statement should be directed at the porn stars of the world, not you guys x]
enfermera
hmm, that video just kind of skeezed me out. weird.
*shudders off the creepy*

but, um. go, boobs of all sizes!
DeeRayy
heyy guys

i haven't asked any questions in a while but i reallly need some words of advice on what to do with myself.

I thought i had made progress in accepting myself. but today i realized just how bad my situation still is. I was changing in my room today and i caught a glimpse of myself topless in the mirror and i stood and looked at my reflection. i became so overwhelmed with disappointment [i might even go as far as saying disgust] that i literally started crying and needed to put my bra & shirt back on and step out of the room.

it really surprised me because i though i had been doing better. I was even wearing stuff that i had never worn before, like little spring dresses. and yet i still can't look at myself in the mirror without getting repulsed. and i though to myself "if i can't look at myself without getting grossed out at my chest, how is any guy ever going to be able to look at me naked and get turned on?". I know i've had sex before, but my shirt ALWAYS remained on during the act. the most he ever saw was me in a bra, and that bra was padded. and i found myself wondering if this is why i'm still completely single almost a year after my breakup.

i feel really stuck right now. and my feelings of hatred toward my body are getting to be overwhelming. i just really don't know what to do or how to help myself. it's extremely frustrating when you constantly feel like you want to crawl out of your own skin. i think i really need a good outlet or a good distraction, because not only am i struggling with my extreme body image issues, but my family is going through a financial crisis right now and i'm also feeling overwhelmed with school, as this is my busiest quarter so far. i'm so busy and stressed out all the time that i don't feel like i have time to breathe.

so, does anyone have anything to say or any suggestions that they think would help?

i'm really sorry if i sound super negative and whiny. I'm just in a really bad place right now and i'm being honest with you guys in hopes that you have anything helpful to say.
DeeRayy
**note to the post i just made**
i'm not just frustrated with the size of my breasts, but also the shape and overall appearance of them. they're more pointy than round, not as perky as they should be for them being so small, and overall i just feel that they're ugly to look at. i don't even think of them as "boobs", or even "booblets", as you guys like to say. i don't know what i would call them, but i don't view myself as owning a pair of breasts.
strongirl
(((DeeRayy)))

You sound really overwhelmed with everything. I think the mirror thing may have just caught you off guard and with your inner resources so low, you reacted in the worst way. I felt sad reading that you looked at your own body in the mirror with "disgust".

I was also struck by your comment "if i can't look at myself without getting grossed out at my chest, how is any guy ever going to be able to look at me naked and get turned on?". Believe me, DeeRayy, in your present state of viewing yourself, there is no man (or woman) in the world who could see you as unattractively as you see yourself. That was awkwardly worded but do you know what I mean? It's like you're wearing "ugly glasses" instead of 3D glasses, and when you look at yourself they distort your image.

I've told the story in here before about when I took one of those "cardio striptease" classes and was feeling really down on myself and ugly and especially bad about my legs and thighs. During an exercise where we were on our backs with our legs in the air, I looked in the mirror and could only see pairs of legs and picked out a particularly nice pair to envy, thinking "why can't I have those toned, sexy legs instead of my fat, short, ugly ones?". Right about then the exercise ended and as I got up, I realized - the legs I was envying were my own! I was in shock about how distorted my self-view was. It took not knowing it was me to see myself clearly. Right now you are wearing a similar filter - "ugly glasses".

I've talked in here about doing "mirror work" and I think it could be immensely beneficial to you. You can look back through the threads or snag one of Susie Orbach's books to learn how.

But I also think your comment about "distraction" is valid - with so much going on, consider putting your tits on ice (figuratively speaking) and focusing on your life. They'll still be there when you have time to think about them again.

For what it is worth, the way you describe your breasts (and yes, you do have them!) matches with one of my boyfriend's favorite "breast types", that he will describe during sex talk with me. Very small, pointy, soft - he'll sometimes say "shaped like little volcanoes". We both get turned on by this. So it seems while you're hating the way your body is, we're fantasizing about it.

I hope some of this stuff was helpful and that you have a better day!
_Vendetta
Just a tip if anyone feels like trying: Talika Bust Serum.


http://www.talika.com/P_950_bust-serum.html

One (or maybe just half) cup size bigger.

It works! At least for some people.

I was on it and they did get bigger.
But then I decided to get them augmented and stopped using.
And then happened what happened to me 3 years ago (unbalanced hormones): they just blew, they're huge (not exactly an A-cup but quite there) but they hurt like hell. No fun.
I'm trying to find some time to go to the doctor and put an end to it.
buttercups
Hey DeeRayy **big hugs**

I've been so busy lately I've barely been able to check in, missed you guys!

DeeRayy, so much of what you said really resonated with me and I am so sorry that someone else in the world feels this way, because I have often had these thoughts. I just wanted to point out that what you're going through sounds a lot like what I go through when I have a BDD attack from body dysmorphic disorder. I'm not saying you have this by any means, but the panic and feelings of disgust sound so similar to what I experience when I am having a BDD episode. My BDD episodes get worse and worse as my stress level increases. I've noticed that whenever I am really overwhelmed and stressed out with everything else going on in my life I take it out on my body and my breasts and feel like I'm at my ugliest. You were doing really well before and now all of a sudden you're feeling awful about yourself and simultaneously all these other stressful things are going on in your life. I think it's likely that how you're feeling about your body right now is a way of reacting to your stress, you are taking it out on your body and your breasts in particular, which is exactly what I do. It doesn't feel like that when you're going through it of course, but that is what is happening. Notice that as your stress level goes down (which I promise it will, I'm so sorry you're going through a hard time right now but you WILL come out on the other side of it and things WILL get better) you will feel more accepting of yourself and your body. My suggestion to you right now is to take care of yourself and treat yourself right. Practice deep breathing and relaxation, take time to do some things you enjoy. I know that's hard with the end of the semester coming up and I'm going through that same stress with school, but you have to make time for yourself. Eat right, exercise, get lots of sleep, and if you feel yourself worrying or beginning to ruminate distract yourself with something-for me listening to music helps a lot. As soon as you are able to get a better handle on your stress level your feelings about yourself will improve. They may not magically go away or anything, but it is a long process towards accepting ourselves and we have to take it day by day. If you are not sure that this is what is going on, try keeping a journal where you document your feelings about your body and then rate your stress level. See if there is a correlation between how stressed you are and how bad you are feeling about yourself. I would bet good money that you would see a connection between the two.

As far as the overall shape of your boobs, I have that same shape too (what there is of my chest to make a shape haha). Little and pointy and when I bend down they are completely cone-like haha for lack of a better word. So it is completely normal to look like that and I would also bet good money that your breasts are a great deal bigger than mine, so know that someone out there (me) envies you and your beautiful body. I hope this helps and I'll have you in my thoughts, sending good body vibes your way <3
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