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secretsights88
Hello, hello, long time no see!! Been busy lately...

I agree that sometimes we distort our own image TOO much, especially when we're stressed, angry, sad or frustrated, even by unrelated things. I know that on good mood days I see my body and think it rocks and is hotter than I gave it credit for, on other days when I feel bad, I look at it with disgust too. But it's the same body.

I think we also distort the ideas we have of "breasts" or "butts" or "vulvas" or any other "hidden" part that we don't see often in others. We're usually presented idealized, very idealized versions of these things. See, I called them "things" which means I've been so brainwashed, I tend to objectify body parts, and myself. It happens unconsciously.

It helps to get real. When I remember all real life women's breasts look similar to mine, as in "not 'perfect'" (whatever perfect is), I realize that I'm not disgusting, I'm normal, a normal, beautiful woman. I'm more than just body parts.

And while I LOVE men, well, in general, women are more aesthetically pleasing than men. So who are they to judge? Lol.
DeeRayy
Thanks buttercups and strongirl for the advice, i really appreciate the support <333

unfortunately, things have been getting progressively worse this week. I have a job fair that i'm attending at my university because i NEED a summer job to help out with my school expenses for next year. and i have to dress in "corporate attire", so i went to go try on some of my aunt's clothes since i don't have the money to buy an entirely new outfit.

and when i started trying on her clothes, i just got realllly sad because i couldn't fill out anything that she gave me. she could see that i was upset and she knows how i feel about my body, so she tried to comfort me by saying things like "at least it fits you! i'm too heavy to even completely button up that shirt and you need a belt just to make it fit." but it didn't really make me feel better, because she could lose weight if she wanted to, but i can't control the part of my body that i'm insecure about. i started crying, once again, and she gave me a really long lecture. she asked what it's going to take to make me feel better, and i just replied that i honestly don't know. i feel like i'm running on empty. i didn't even want to hang out with my friends this weekend when i got an invite because i didn't want to have to go through the stress of finding something to wear, but i made myself. it's almost like i just don't want anyone to look at me or see me. i'm going to set up an appointment with the counseling center at my school, because i just can't go on feeling like this about myself, because it makes every aspect of life soooo much more difficult. i just want to be able to look in the mirror without wanting to cry. i never though i'd get to this point. it's a really painful place to be in.
buttercups
Hi DeeRayy,

I know exactly how you feel because everytime I try to find professional looking clothes for work I always end up upset too. I'm in a similar position right now cause I need to find a suit for job interviews and the idea of even going shopping is depressing because I know I'll just feel like a little girl playing dress-up.

I think it's really good you're going to see someone about this, you're braver than I am because I haven't had the guts to do it yet. Stay strong and I know you can get through this. Let us know how it goes and I'll be thinking of you!
karategrrl
Hugs, DeeRay! I"m so sorry you are feeling so bad. I have to echo what others are saying in that it certainly DOES sound like you are going thorough a hella lot of stuff right now--any one of which would be overwhelming. But reading between the lines, I also see an awful lot of strength in you--in the midst of this, you are reaching out to us for support, pushing yourself to get out with friends, pushing yourself to get some interview clothes together, get a job, etc. Give yourself a lot of credit for that, girl. When we are overwhelmed, it takes strength to identify what you need and make the effort to reach out to others. The point is not whether or not we feel like shit at some times in life (we all do) but its how we handle it that I believe makes a difference. Maybe you are stronger than you think right now!! smile.gif

Big hugs, girl!!!!!! And come back here ANYTIME for support from us!!! You are welcome here 24/7!!!
DeeRayy
thanks karategrrl<33

i guess i just get frustrated with the fact that my feelings about my body affect me SOOOO MUCH, to the point where i don't feel like it's normal. sometimes i just ask myself why i can't just get over it and be happy already. oh, i wish it were that easy. i mean, it seems like the whole world is obsessed with boobs and sometimes i just can't help but feel physically inadequate. i struggle with feeling feminine. sometimes i don't even feel like my body looks entirely female when i take my bra off, and i shudder at the thought of a guy ever seeing me without clothes on. my mom got really upset with how sad and full of tears i was this weekend over it. she also said something that made a lot of sense to me- "it always comes back to that F^*%ING boy you dated. he put this issue in your head and he just left it there. and now YOU won't let go of how he made you feel". and i agree that i put too much weight on what happened. it sucks because it's almost been a year and i'm still left with all these feelings of disappointment towards my body. and i'm afraid that my body is going to be disappointing to every guy that i date in the future. or worse, i feel that i'm not going to even be able to attract another guy in the first place. and i know, i shouldn't worry so much about what guys think. i'm working on that. my mom and my aunt both tell me that i'm so lucky to be both pretty and intelligent, and to be thankful that i'm one of the thinner girls in the family when compared to most of my cousins. but, it's kind of hard to take compliments from them, because i feel like they have to tell me those kind of things because they're my family. and even when other people give me compliments, i for some reason never truly believe them. when my ex would say things like "you're so gorgeous, i can't stand it!" or "you look so sexy right now", i would just get uncomfortable, and i never really took those words in as truth. they would just kind of flow past me. i just couldn't comprehend why someone could find me attractive, much less be sexually attracted to me. it was just a strange idea to me. it's like i don't feel that i'm capable of being a sexual creature, or capable of attracting attention from the opposite sex.

but most of all, i'm TIRED. i'm tired of dressing strategically to hide my body. i'm tired of crying multiple times a week. i'm tired of my family worrying about me. i'm tired of wanting to be something that i'm not. i'm tired of holding myself back in social situations because i'm not confident enough in myself. i'm tired of having to force myself to go out. i'm tired of beating myself up over things i can't control. it's EXHAUSTING being this insecure about my body. and i know this isn't normal. my friends say that things will just get better with time, but they seem to be getting worse with time. i'm gonna call and set up an intake at my school counseling center tomorrow. i just really want some advice on what might be causing this and why i can't seem to control my emotions over this. but in the mean time, i also need to try and turn a blind eye to my appearance right now so i can just power my way through this quarter at school and hopefully find a summer job this month. i just really need to take care of myself and get everything done. hopefully, i can make some real progress in loving my body over the summer without so much stress.
karategrrl
QUOTE(DeeRayy @ Apr 12 2011, 02:54 AM) *
i'm gonna call and set up an intake at my school counseling center tomorrow. i just really want some advice on what might be causing this and why i can't seem to control my emotions over this. but in the mean time, i also need to try and turn a blind eye to my appearance right now so i can just power my way through this quarter at school and hopefully find a summer job this month. i just really need to take care of myself and get everything done. hopefully, i can make some real progress in loving my body over the summer without so much stress.

Sounds like you have a great plan, grrl. Pease check in with us and give us progress reports, "good" or "bad!"
strongirl
Karategrrl, your earlier post supporting DeeRayy was coincidentally just what I needed to hear yesterday myself! Yep, sometimes we all do feel like shit in life. Nice how supporting one person can radiate out and help others, too! Thanks, Karategrrl! smile.gif

Deeray, I didn't remember your previous post about the ex-bf so I read back through your previous posts. Now I'm tracking. But what really struck me going back through your posts was how extremely intelligent and articulate you are! Girl, you can write! I know, as Karategrrl said, that you feel like shit right now. But gosh, you are really a smart, insightful person and I'm confident that you'll come out of all this just fine.

Re. your inability to take a compliment - I have suffered from the same problem. And so does my bf. Having both of us struggle with this has been beneficial in that we can help each other since we each get a dose of our own medicine. I HATE it when I'm looking at him and I'm blown away with how sexy and gorgeous he is and when I open my mouth and say what I'm feeling, he reacts negatively and says things like "You're crazy" or "You need to get your eyes checked". And he HATES it when he compliments me and I do that. The correct response to ANY compliment is a sincere and enthusiatic "Thank you!".

Your mom and aunt do want to make you feel better, I'm sure, but it doesn't sound like they're making stuff up or bullshitting you.

And I support you in using the resources available to you and seeing a counselor. I did when I was in college to help me get over my body issues and eating disorder and it helped a ton!
karategrrl
QUOTE(strongirl @ Apr 12 2011, 04:59 PM) *
Nice how supporting one person can radiate out and help others, too! Thanks, Karategrrl! smile.gif

Yeah, isn't that interesting the way that works! I'm glad my words could help. Aw shucks. And I have to agree, strongirl, that DeeRayy is amazing, articulate, all that awesome stuff (DeeRayy, yes, we're talking about you!) Heh, but we're saying great stuff.
KeraBear
QUOTE(strongirl @ Apr 7 2011, 08:10 AM) *
I've told the story in here before about when I took one of those "cardio striptease" classes and was feeling really down on myself and ugly and especially bad about my legs and thighs. During an exercise where we were on our backs with our legs in the air, I looked in the mirror and could only see pairs of legs and picked out a particularly nice pair to envy, thinking "why can't I have those toned, sexy legs instead of my fat, short, ugly ones?". Right about then the exercise ended and as I got up, I realized - the legs I was envying were my own! I was in shock about how distorted my self-view was. It took not knowing it was me to see myself clearly. Right now you are wearing a similar filter - "ugly glasses".


I had a similar experience. I was looking at a photograph of one of my friends, and I was sort of caught in the background when it was taken. I sorta thought to myself, "Hey, a girl with sorta my figure. I wish I could rock it like she does." Then I realized it was me! ha ha... I guess we just don't give ourselves enough credit sometimes, huh?

QUOTE(strongirl @ Apr 7 2011, 08:10 AM) *
For what it is worth, the way you describe your breasts (and yes, you do have them!) matches with one of my boyfriend's favorite "breast types", that he will describe during sex talk with me. Very small, pointy, soft - he'll sometimes say "shaped like little volcanoes". We both get turned on by this. So it seems while you're hating the way your body is, we're fantasizing about it.


Hey wait... those are my boobs, too! *blushing*

I certainly have my bad body days for sure, but I cannot imagine what it is like to have BDD. I am glad that you are pursuing help through counseling, DeeRay. Let us know how it goes. Buttercups had some really great advice, too. Well.... everybody really. RADIATE!
karategrrl
I also have that breast shape/size where when I bend over, they look like little cones. I don't like it. But then I really dont' think anyone's boobs look great that way!
babyblue
Hi ladies!

I can't tell you how excited I am to come across this group. I'm 27 years old, 4'11", 32A, and my small pair has been the bane of my existence for as long as I can remember! I am so insecure about my breast size that I am uncomfortable even watching movies with female nudity in them with my fiance. I would never admit this to him, but I want to melt into a puddle of embarassment every time a well-endowed woman appears on screen! I know how ridiculous this is, but I can't shake the feeling.
I had a plastic surgery consultation a few years back, but I swiftly decided not to go through with the procedure. Implants are a great fix for some people, but they're not for me! I just want to be comfortable in my own skin. I have trolled through enough posts on here to know that I am not alone, and it is such a relief! I just want to extend a giant virtual hug to all of you, and thank whoever started this group. smile.gif
DeeRayy
welcome babyblue!
i just wanna say that i'm glad you found this page, it's really a great place to vent and seek out support. and i can already relate to a few of the things you've said. I'm also a girl that struggles with feelings about the size of my breasts, but I also know that implants are not for me and probably never will be for me. and I totally know the feeling you described about watching movies with well endowed women appearing nude. I've been there, and it's unpleasant! But you said you have a fiance so I can see that you're in a committed relationship, and if he's committed to you then you shouldn't really worry. I know that's easier said than done! and i'm in no way confident about my body either. If you read through my recent posts you'll see that I'm currently experiencing a really rough patch with my body issues. I'm only 19, so i'm really hoping it's just a phase. but this page really does help, and there are some amazing women on this forum!

hugs!
KeraBear
QUOTE(babyblue @ Apr 19 2011, 08:37 PM) *
Hi ladies!

I can't tell you how excited I am to come across this group. I'm 27 years old, 4'11", 32A, and my small pair has been the bane of my existence for as long as I can remember! I am so insecure about my breast size that I am uncomfortable even watching movies with female nudity in them with my fiance. I would never admit this to him, but I want to melt into a puddle of embarassment every time a well-endowed woman appears on screen! I know how ridiculous this is, but I can't shake the feeling.
I had a plastic surgery consultation a few years back, but I swiftly decided not to go through with the procedure. Implants are a great fix for some people, but they're not for me! I just want to be comfortable in my own skin. I have trolled through enough posts on here to know that I am not alone, and it is such a relief! I just want to extend a giant virtual hug to all of you, and thank whoever started this group. smile.gif


Hi!!!! And welcome! Be sure to go to the Newbies thread and introduce yourself.

I feel you on the nudity in the movies thing. Sometimes I wonder to myself... "really? Was that even neccessary to advance the story?!?" But then again, I also have an appreciation for the female body, so sometimes I do not mind. wink.gif Just remember that of all the women that your fiance knows. He chose YOU. All of you. Yay!

Implants... yeah... definitely not for me either. I feel like if I did that I just wouldn't be pure, natural Kera. I just gotta be me! Although sometimes I wonder, if I woke up tomorrow morning with D cups, would I really be happy? Although maybe under extreme circumstances, I would go through with it... I have a friend who's sister had surgery because her breasts were two different sizes. Not just a little like most girls, but like one was an A cup and the other was a C or bigger. That would seriously suck... but then I could post in both boobie support groups. LOL! smile.gif

But yeah, I've found that anytime I've had a bad body day (which is sort of often... high school. People are evil here), this place has been great place to go.

KeraBear
QUOTE(babyblue @ Apr 19 2011, 08:37 PM) *
I just want to extend a giant virtual hug to all of you, and thank whoever started this group. smile.gif


Hmm... you know what? I always thought it was Starship that started this group, but it turns out it was somebody named Star. From my historical research -- She founded this forum on April 30 2006 (Hey, celebrating 5 years of rocking small boobie hotness in just 10 DAYS!), made a grand total of three posts and... rode off into the sunset, I guess. I wonder if she ever dreamed it would have the stay power that it has?

It's certainly has wayyyyyyyyyyy more posts than the large breast support group, that is for sure. Not to say that those gals don't have their own challenges but I do think it speaks a lot to our culture or media messages or whatevs you know?
karategrrl
QUOTE(KeraBear @ Apr 20 2011, 11:11 PM) *
I have a friend who's sister had surgery because her breasts were two different sizes. Not just a little like most girls, but like one was an A cup and the other was a C or bigger. That would seriously suck... but then I could post in both boobie support groups. LOL! smile.gif

laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif
OMG, that was so awesome.

babyblue, WELCOME!! Hugs, hellos and booblet-shakes (like handshakes? Shit, I don't know what I'm writing, hahaha.)

Anyway, just wanted to extend a warm welcome. You'll find some great support (pun intended) here, and SOO many who share your ups, downs, and concerns.

I do feel ya ladies on the breasts in movies thing. No, much of the time it does NOT advance the movie or is not relevent in any way. (When watching guy flicks with the hubby, I often have to laugh at plot "lines" like water pipes that suddenly burst and spray the white t-shirt of the female eye candy--and no one else, or one solitary female car mechanic--bending over a car engine wearing nothing but short-shorts, a tight tank and strategically placed grease--in a garage full of men, none of whom are leering or groping her. Yeah, right. <yawn.>

I considered the implants for about 2 minutes until I did some internet research, and I, too, decided they are not for me--just gotta me me--ALL me. Though I do understand the frustration over feeling like maybe you have no other choice.
strongirl
LOL, I too fell out laughing over that comment by Kera! Too frickin' funny!!! biggrin.gif
KeraBear
QUOTE(karategrrl @ Apr 21 2011, 03:07 PM) *
I do feel ya ladies on the breasts in movies thing. No, much of the time it does NOT advance the movie or is not relevent in any way. (When watching guy flicks with the hubby, I often have to laugh at plot "lines" like water pipes that suddenly burst and spray the white t-shirt of the female eye candy--and no one else, or one solitary female car mechanic--bending over a car engine wearing nothing but short-shorts, a tight tank and strategically placed grease--in a garage full of men, none of whom are leering or groping her. Yeah, right. <yawn.>


Ha ha... yes. THIS. Two examples come to mind when I read this. One was in an episode of "Chuck" where Sarah was fighting with this chick at a class reunion in the gym showers, accidentally breaking all these pipes and getting their shirts all wet and stuff. The other was Megan Fox in Transformers 1. Yeah, those weren't nude scenes but still ridiculously over the top! *rolling eyes*
babyblue
What a wonderful welcome! Thanks so much! smile.gif I think this group may become my "happy place." My female friends (and two sisters) are of the larger-breasted variety, so it is difficult for them to truly understand my "booblet" (love it - LOL) related issues.
Some days, I feel just fine about myself, and some days I curse the mirror. My issues become less and less prominent as I've gotten older (I was a hot mess in my teen years), so Kera and DeeRayy, you will hopefully experience the same. You already have a huge head start on me just by discovering the "small BUST"-ies!
karategrrl, I feel you on the "having no choice" mentality when it comes to plastic surgery. Although we've rejected this idea for ourselves, it seems as if that is where the buck stops. Option A: Fake boobs. Option B: tiny boobs. Where is that middle ground in which we could magically wake up with an extra cup size? smile.gif If only those "natural breast enhancements" actually worked... I always get a solid laugh when I see the D-cup chicks in the ads, flaunting their "enhanced" sets. Zero to Pam Anderson overnight! It's a miracle! laugh.gif
Still, although I'm engaged to a super sweet guy who has never spoken a negative word about my little ones (the last few girls he dated were all petite like me, so this seems to be his "type"), I feel no less frustrated than I did before I met him. I always thought that when I finally met a guy who appreciated my body type, my insecurities would melt away. Nope! They still pop up to say hello, to remind me that I'm "lacking." Of course, to think that any man's opinion would override my own is pretty ridiculous, no?
babyblue
Oh, and speaking of the movie nudity, why is male nudity almost exclusively used for humorous purposes, i.e. the sloppy, hairy guy's ass, while female nudity is always for "hot" points? Doesn't anyone realize that girls watch movies, too? How about some nude Bradley Cooper or John Krasinski?? Let's make it fair and balanced, people! Haha
DeeRayy
QUOTE(babyblue @ Apr 21 2011, 04:26 PM) *
I always thought that when I finally met a guy who appreciated my body type, my insecurities would melt away. Nope! They still pop up to say hello, to remind me that I'm "lacking." Of course, to think that any man's opinion would override my own is pretty ridiculous, no?


ahaha, i'm with you there! i used to think that if could only meet a guy who called me beautiful i would finally be at peace with myself. boy was i wrong! as soon as that happened, i still found myself struggling with my insecurities. i guess now i realize that the only opinion about your body that matters at the end of the day is your own, because no one can make you accept yourself.

but it's great that you found someone who appreciates you! i'm still waiting to meet a good guy [patience is a virtue, right?]

i think i already have a question for you babyblue (i'm a bottomless bag questions, you'll see haha). did you ever feel the need to reveal or discuss your insecurities about your breasts with your fiance? or do you think that is something you should keep to yourself?

what about everyone else? is talking about this with your guy a no no?
buttercups
Hi babyblue, welcome!! You seem to have revived our little forum lull yay!!

I'm pretty much the same age as you and about a 32AA, so like the other ladies on here I totally know how you feel. I have a great guy in my life too who has never said anything negative about my body, and just like DeeRayy said it has to come from within us. If we can't accept ourselves no comments our guys ever make will make our insecurities disappear, we have to find the way to do it ourselves, and this forum is a great place to start.

God if I only had hours to go on and on about movie nudity. It makes me soo uncomfortable and feel sooo bad about myself whenever I'm watching a movie with my bf and that inevitable hottie-with-huge-breasts naked scene comes on, I think I literally cringe. It makes me feel so embarrassed, like what is he thinking? Is he sitting there thinking why doesn't she look like that? What happened to her?? Now that's what a real woman looks like! Honestly, I will never know, but I did notice something awhile back that I found interesting. I thought that I would react this way to any female nudity when my bf is around, but I realized that I was completely fine on the rare occasions that the woman was more or less built like me. I remember one time we were watching the watchmen or something like that (not a movie i would necessarily recommend anyways hahahaha) and the "hot" woman in that movie, I can't remember the name of the actress, has very small breasts. I was prepared for the worst and then when the naked sex scene came and I saw that she more or less looked like me in that area, I actually wanted him to see it so maybe he would think " wow, there really are other girls out there that look like her". It didn't bring up any of those freaked out feelings in me. It happened again when we were watching the movie Splice and the chick in that movie was also really small up top. I never realized before that it wasn't my bf seeing naked women that made me so uncomfortable, it was him seeing women that I could never live up to. When they looked more like something that didn't make me feel like a complete freak of nature I was fine with it. I still feel uncomfortable when we watch scenes with big-breasted naked women together though, dont quite know how to deal with that yet.

DeeRayy, in regards to your question about whether or not you bring it up to guy, I have never been able to have a relationship yet where I didn't bring it up. It takes me awhile when I start a relationship to get comfortable enough to let a guy even go near me there, so I end up having to explain why at some point. I also think it's important when you are with someone you really love and trust that they know that this is something that you struggle with so that they will be sensitive to that and can work with you to make it better, or else you are always going to be hiding it. My bf and exes have always responded really well and been really understanding about it. They may not understand it, but they know that it bothers me and are then more willing to wait for me to take my shirt off in front of them or understand that sometimes when we're having sex I may not feel like being touched there if I'm feeling really self-conscious that day. What does everyone else think?
nbdx0645
Hi buttercups, you're thinking of Malin Akerman who played the Silk Spectre II in Watchmen.

QUOTE(buttercups @ Apr 21 2011, 07:49 PM) *
Now that's what a real woman looks like!


You need to change your definition of what a real woman is. You need to include yourself because you are one, miss!
karategrrl
QUOTE(KeraBear @ Apr 21 2011, 11:25 PM) *
The other was Megan Fox in Transformers 1. Yeah, those weren't nude scenes but still ridiculously over the top! *rolling eyes*

That was exactly who I was thinking of!!!! Yeah, in T1 she was bending over the hood in the mini skirt. In T2, it was her working in the car garage. Uh-huh, very realistic. blink.gif

BTW, I work in marketing and read a great article about the marketing of Megan Fox as a sex symbol. They deliberately produce this rep of her as Hollywood's bad girl--to take the place of Angelina Jolie, who's now getting a little older and is now all Mom-like and settled down. Fox could never even touch Joile, as far as depth, though, in my humble opinion.
strongirl
I vote for communication within a relationship but when and how can have an effect on the outcome.

Asking a very turned on guy "How do you like my little titties?" when you're sitting on top of him naked in bed will almost definitely elicit a very enthusiastic response.

But an outta the blue, tense "You like those better than you like my small ones, don't you? Be honest." while you're watching a movie and a large-breasted actess comes on...not so much.

There are really two separate issues - how you feel about them and how he feels about them. And as y'all pointed out below, how he feels cannot automatically change how you feel. No one can "fix" someone else's insecurities. But in a close relationship, I want my man to know what's important to me, how I feel about things, how to make me feel good...and I want to do the same for him. Even though there's still way more social pressure on women re. their looks, I can guarantee you that your man has his own insecurities about his body, whether it's his male member and its size or performance, the hair on his back, or his "love handles". In a secure relationship, both parties can help each other with reassurances, affection, and appreciation.

If there are any lurking guys reading this, take note: when I'm watching a movie with my man and a big titted actress comes on, he'll pull me close and grab my tits and say "These are the kind I like best!" or "Just so you know, those implants do not compare to your perfect little ones!" Stuff like that. I totally believe he is being honest and it does indeed make me feel good. And it pre-disposes me to make him feel good in return. Try it with your woman and enjoy the results.


karategrrl
QUOTE(babyblue @ Apr 21 2011, 11:32 PM) *
Oh, and speaking of the movie nudity, why is male nudity almost exclusively used for humorous purposes, i.e. the sloppy, hairy guy's ass, while female nudity is always for "hot" points? Doesn't anyone realize that girls watch movies, too? How about some nude Bradley Cooper or John Krasinski?? Let's make it fair and balanced, people! Haha

Grrl, I could have written this myself. Amen. Have you seen the first Sex and the City movie? I highly recommend it, evne if just for the scene with the guy "Dante," naked in the outdoor shower. And <are you sitting down???> they even show some of his penis, for like a fraction of a second. New Line Cinema actually allowed it. I wouldn't mind women's nudity in media so much if it were EQUAL, people!!!!!

Funny--the husband doesn't understand my thoughts on this--he lived in Europe for awhile and cites the nudity in TV commercials there, etc. as an everday thing. YET.....we watched the SATC movie and when the Dante scene came on he was like, "oh pleeease!!!" and was squirming around. It's not nudity that's perceived as no big deal...it's FEMALE nudity! Arggh!

PS: Bradley Cooper...hell yeah! I personally like Vin Deisel too. I'll watch any guy flick at all with him in it. You could turn off the sound for all I care (though I like his voice)...just let me gaze upon him...
strongirl
Check out the Starz series "Spartacus"! There are two seasons, "Blood and Sand" (aired first but occurs later in timeline) and "Gods of the Arena".

I have to confess I am seriously addicted! And I am a lifelong non-TV watcher.

It is the most equal treatment of male and female nudity I have ever seen. And the male nudity - suffice to say it is WAY better than almost all the porn I've ever seen, where so many of the actors are just icky. We're talking full frontal, with gorgeous, buff hunks that can actually act, too.

Implants are not quite non-existant but almost, since of course they wouldn't have been around in ancient Rome. Breasts show a range of sizes and shapes.

You do have to have a stomach for violence to watch this show - I wouldn't recommend it for someone with delicate sensibilities. I've said to my bf that the show is a perfect cross between "Opera, Porn, and MMA Fighting", and he totally agrees.

Check it out - I'd be really interested in hearing y'all's opinions.

DeeRayy
heyy guys,
just a quick update on the whole me going to therapy thing. The lady I went to at my school counseling center actually made me feel worse than when I came in! It was actually kind of an upsetting experience. I went ahead and told her why I came and we started talking about my issues with my breasts and why they affect me so much and she says this to me,
"I can see why it's such a struggle for you because often times breasts are what separates women from men."
Can anyone else see why this comment upset me?? I basically felt like she was saying I wasn't female. and i just kind of felt like she had a bit of a condescending tone. she also said things like ,"oh i would imagine it makes it harder to shop for clothing, doesn't it?." and in my head i kept disagreeing with her. idk, i'm really not feeling her, and i'm dreading going back. i don't feel like she's going to end up helping me.

but what do you guys think? am i just being too sensitive?
angie_21
Jumping in to say DeeRay, if you aren't feeling a connection with this counsellor, it's considered totally OK to request someone else. The fact that she is making statements like that instead of taking it as a really problem (as any other body issue problem) bugs me. No one would say to someone with a body dismorphic disorder about being overweight, "I bet that makes it harder to shop for clothing." Really insensitive. If you want, give her a second chance, but I feel like maybe this is not her area of specialty.
buttercups
Totally second what angie said DeeRayy, it sounds like she has no experience in this area and just does not get it. I would have felt awful too if thats what a counselor said to me. They are supposed to be challenging your beliefs about yourself, not reinforcing them. Maybe do a little research in your area about what psych specialties are around and find someone who specializes in issues with body image/self-esteem. That is the kind of person you really need to go to, if this woman as already done more damage I would suggest not going back and finding someone else local who knows what they're talking about.
DeeRayy
Agreed, buttercups and angie.

but, for some reason i'm getting the feeling that talk therapy might not be the solution to my problems. maybe i just haven't found the right therapist yet, but i'm actually sick and tired of talking about how badly i feel about my body. it just makes me focus more on the problem. i went to therapy hoping that i would get some direction or some exercises to do, but we just ended up talking for an hour about how i feel. maybe that part will be introduced in the next session (fingers crossed). she did recommend that i buy a journal because she saw right away how emotional i became once we got past the whole "what was your childhood like" stuff and i actually started talking about my body issues.

dove is actually going to be doing a "real beauty" presentation at my university. however, i'm not so sure it will benefit me. I'm a member of the student organization that is putting the event on and my adviser stated that it was going to showcase full-figured women. and immediately in my head i was like "ohhh noo, another 'real women have curves' rally". I absolutely LOATHE that slogan. whenever i hear someone saying that, i automatically ask in my head, "so because i'm petite and of modest proportions, you don't think i'm a 'real woman'?". ugh, total bullcrap. those women are no better than skinny women who call overweight people "gross". i actually feel odd because of these movements, because while i'm not a curvy plus size girl, i'm also not extremely thin either. i'm just an average frame, healthy girl who happened to only develop an a-cup. and it makes me feel like i'm in this odd middle ground because i see the struggles of both sides, and i sometimes feel stuck.

which brings me to another source of frustration. i am oh so very tired of my mom suggesting that i eventually get implants whenever i try to talk to her about the issues i'm having. she literally says, "if you don't want to change it, then what the heck do you want??"

I want her to support me and help me get through this rough patch is what i want! i don't want her to constantly suggest that i just get it "fixed" and move on. it's ridiculous how so many of the women in my family think that cosmetic surgery will solve all of their problems. i have an aunt who is planning on getting implants and a lift so that they'll look "fuller and more rounded". but here's what upsets me about it- she is a double d cup and only twenty nine! my mom wants a tummy tuck to get rid of evidence of childbirth, and said implants would also "be nice" even though she is a full c already. my god! and when i see how unsatisfied they are with their busts, i think "oh god, if they need implants then i what the hell do i need? two damn beach balls shoved in there??" all i can say is thank goodness i'm moving away for next school year.

now, i have done research online and ultimately decided that implants are just not what i want. i could go on for days why i decided not to even think about it. health risks, money, replacement surgery, possible complications, and having a greater risk of breast cancer going undetected were all huge stop signs for me. i also feel like if i did get implants i would always question whether the guys i would end up dating would have still been interested in me without the fake boobs, and that's a question i should not have to be asking myself.

but more importantly, i realized that if a man were to ever look at me and say "the only way i can truly accept you is if you get implants," i would kick his shallow keester to the curb in a heartbeat. so, how would it be fair for me to say that to myself? it's not.

however, there are times when implants feel like my only choice or my only way out of my current emotional state. i sometimes feel like i have two choices- stay small and feel inadequate, or get implants and feel fake. it definitely feels like i'm damned if i do and i'm damned if i don't sometimes. but in those moments i remember the words in the paragraph that i typed above and i just suck it up and move on with my day.

well idk where i was really going with this whole thing. i just needed a good rant, and i think i'm finished. but i will end on a positive note! i talked to one of my friends for the first times about the hard time i'm having right now and it was the first time i had ever actually admitted my insecurities to him. and he told me to look up a porn star named dani jensen. well i'm not the biggest fan of pornography, but i'm also not a prude when it comes to porn either so i went ahead and did it. and it made me feel so much better! her boobies look just like mine! and her overall body shape is a lot like mine too! i figured, if she can make a living as a porn star then i should at least be able to look myself in the mirror without frowning at my chest. idk if i'm gonna come off as a perve for this but i now have a topless picture of her saved (but hidden haha) on my computer. it's not to ogle or anything, but she looks beautiful in the picture so now on those days when i'm not feeling so desirable i can look at that picture and say, "remember, there are probably dozens of guys pleasuring themselves this very minute to a pair of booblets that look just like yours!" so hopefully that'll serve as a nice little pick-me-up from time to time.
buttercups
DeeRayy I'm so sorry to hear about all of your struggles and how much more difficult your mom makes the whole situation. Once again I have to commend you for being you no matter what everyone else around you says. It is especially hard to stand your ground when its your family, and your own mother no less, that are telling you to do something that you not only don't want to do, but that makes you feel even worse about yourself. God I wish we could switch moms for a day, my mom would definitely give you an ear-full of the anti-implant talk. She can't even stand to hear me even mention it and if I do it always turns into a fight. Of course this isn't the best way either, because I think that what we both want is just support from the people in our lives that we value the most. But honestly, to stay strong when you are surrounded by pro-plastic surgery women is extremely difficult and you are so brave to do that. It will get easier when you move away for school but until then we are always here for you!

I hate hate hate the "real women have curves" campaign too because once again it's alienating another group of women. Why does a body type have to define what a "real woman" is?? I am all for being supportive of curvy women, but not at the expense of everyone else. There is all this media around now about how size 0 women are ugly and unnatural and it makes me feel like crap because I already felt like I didn't fit in. Yes, I'm a size 0, but no, I am no super model. I am short, with stubby legs, and my body resembles that of a small child. I have been this way my whole life and it is not something that I'm proud of or appreciate, so I don't really need other people telling me how bad it looks. We all need to be supportive of each other. I can't wait until that happens. I also hate being referred to as boyish or how my body type is labeled as boyish figure in magazines. I am not curvy, but why does that automatically mean I am "boyish". I wish we could get rid of that crap too!

And last but not least, I just have to say wow, thank your friend for me, because I just looked up dani jensen and have never before in my life seen a girl with boobs like mine! Those look exactly like mine too and I can't believe it! I almost want to show my bf and be like "look, I found a girl who looks like me! Your gf is not a freak of nature!" I am still in disbelief, guess we're boobie twins DeeRayy!

karategrrl
Hugs to DeeRay!!!

Two observations:
1. I agree with the others that this therapist you saw is not a good match for you. Sounds like she was maybe making an attempt to understand you (maybe throwing out these comments to see how you might respond to them??), but she was being not at all objective, which is what a great therapist would be, especially right off the bat. It can be tough to find a good therapist. Keep looking. I totally understand and agree to some extent about how you feel talk therapy might mean focusing on the problem, not the solution, but a skilled therapist will be solution-oriented and who kind of figuratively holds your hand as you become empowered on your own. The decision is yours, and you know you have my (and everyone else's) full support on this!!

2. I have to be honest and say I'm totally blown away at the insight and depth of your very last post. If I were to judge from that alone, I'd say you truly DO have a VERY good handle on your views and feelings about this issue. Sounds like you are very grounded indeed but just need some support as you strengthen your own sense of body image and self-worth, and deal with the asshats that come your way. Do you feel like this is right? If not, please correct me. But I had to give you that feedback, grrl. You rock, seriously.

Much love and hugs.

DeeRayy
karategrrl, thanks for the positive feedback!

i agree with you that i'm not a complete mess when it comes to this issue. it feels like there are two sides to me when it comes to the issues i have with my breasts. there's the logical, mature side of me that says that i really shouldn't be experiencing this much grief over the mere fact that i'm not busty. but then there's the self-doubting, overly emotional side of me that can't seem to get over it. so, i know it shouldn't have such a big affect on me, yet it still does. i guess i just need help silencing the little voice in my head that tells me i'm not enough. and i don't see my small breasts as a flaw, i just get really nervous about what guys think about them, and i just really don't want what happened in my last relationship to happen again. so there's a fear in my heart that the next guy i end up dating won't be satisfied with my breasts either, and that i'm going to feel completely helpless and inadequate all over again. and that's what most of my insecurity comes right down to- this fear of guys judging me. i know it's not right to be wary of all men just because of one guy, but it's difficult not to sometimes. and i know i shouldn't be so concerned with what guys think of me in the first place, but i'm working on that as well.
discowombat
", i realized that if a man were to ever look at me and say "the only way i can truly accept you is if you get implants," i would kick his shallow keester to the curb in a heartbeat. so, how would it be fair for me to say that to myself? it's not."

Amen DeeRayy! I couldn't have said it better.
KeraBear
oooh... speaking as a fellow "boyish" sistah, I also hate the "Real Women Have Curves" message!! BUUUUUUUT.... I do like this video from Dove that I found on YouTube. I don't really see much of the "war on skinny" here, and it is more warring against the beauty industry in general. It's great! HOWEVVVVVER, I recently learned that Dove and Axe are owned by the same freakin' company! If you've ever seen an Axe commercial, you know what I mean. *rolling eyes*
KeraBear
QUOTE(DeeRayy @ Apr 25 2011, 05:19 PM) *
so, i know it shouldn't have such a big affect on me, yet it still does. i guess i just need help silencing the little voice in my head that tells me i'm not enough.


The next time that little voice comes into your head. Take a deep breath... and go Achmed the Dead Terrorist on its ass!

"SILENCE!!!!! I KEEL YOU!!!" laugh.gif
Persiflager
*delurks*

DeeRayy, might your friend have been subtly hitting on you?

*relurks*
angie_21
Ha! I thought that too, Persi!

DeeRay, don't beat yourself up over how you feel. Everyone's got some insecurities, everyone wants to be beautiful. For me, the only way to stop caring about my breasts was to really, really start loving the other parts of my body. You aren't being shallow or silly for wanting to feel worthwhile and attractive, however, I think maybe I can teasingly tell you it might be silly to think you aren't those things already... I focused on what I did like about my body, and what my body can do for me, and also on other people's responses. No one ever looks at my little boobs and acts all disgusted, you know why? because they're actually quite nice! And I get long looks from a good percentage of the guys I walk past in a day. My guy friends compliment me on how I look, sometimes to the point of being inappropriate. And might I add, I am not quite a full a 34A - my breasts look a lot like that Dani Jensen girl's, and on top of it I have cellulite and a bit of a belly (which she certainly doesn't) and ALL those things are OK! Because I am happy and confident, and dress to show off what I have, choosing only clothes that fit with my frame, I never walk around feeling ugly anymore. (well never is a strong word, but compared to how I felt in the past - I felt a lot like you did, knowing I should be happy but not being able to). It took time, and it took my focusing on a lot of other things in life that make me feel like a strong, intelligent, and beautiful person. And at some point, I not only "accepted" my breasts, but started loving them as much as everything else. They are perky and bouncy, I have adorable tiny pink nipples, and they never get in the way when I am lifting weights or wall climbing! They never overpower an outfit I wear, I can wear low-cut sexy tops without attracting TOO much attention (if I want too much attention, then I throw on a miniskirt too. Ha!)

Sorry for rambling.. I'm late for work and no time to say anything coherent. I just want to say DeeRay, I am so glad you have the right idea and know in your head that you don't have to judge yourself for your breast size. Don't get too impatient with yourself - these things take time. Glad you're here!
karategrrl
QUOTE(KeraBear @ Apr 26 2011, 02:23 AM) *
The next time that little voice comes into your head. Take a deep breath... and go Achmed the Dead Terrorist on its ass!

"SILENCE!!!!! I KEEL YOU!!!" laugh.gif


LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif
DeeRayy
QUOTE(angie_21 @ Apr 26 2011, 04:23 AM) *
And might I add, I am not quite a full a 34A - my breasts look a lot like that Dani Jensen girl's, and on top of it I have cellulite and a bit of a belly (which she certainly doesn't) and ALL those things are OK!


Angie, i can tell you that i've got pudge on my tummy too and that's probably my second big insecurity because even though i'm not large i still manage to have some cushion there. when i said her body type is a lot like mine i meant petite and small breasted. she just looks a lot more like me from the neck down than any other porn star i've ever seen. you've posted in here about how you've lost weight, so what can you say to someone who wants to lose some but is afraid of losing the little breast tissue that she has? because although my tummy doesn't bother me nearly as much as my breasts, it still bothers me. but i get afraid of becoming comleeeetely flat. i might get scolded for that last comment but it's still a fear i have about starting a weight loss regimen.
DeeRayy
QUOTE(buttercups @ Apr 25 2011, 12:36 AM) *
I hate hate hate the "real women have curves" campaign too because once again it's alienating another group of women.

Why does a body type have to define what a "real woman" is?? I am all for being supportive of curvy women, but not at the expense of everyone else.

We all need to be supportive of each other. I can't wait until that happens. I also hate being referred to as boyish or how my body type is labeled as boyish figure in magazines. I am not curvy, but why does that automatically mean I am "boyish". I wish we could get rid of that crap too!



my goodness i didn't see your post buttercups! i totally agree with what you said about the "real women have curves" thing. people are always talking about what the "average woman" looks like, how the "average woman" is a size 12 and 5'5". and it makes no sense. there is no way to accurately describe what the average woman looks like because we are all so unique. and those are just numbers that do not actually describe the variation between each and every woman. technically, if you have two women, one 5'4" and a size 10, the other 5'0" and a size 6, then the "average" between them would be a 5'2" woman who is a size 8. Now, does that mean you have two 5'2" size 8 women in front of you? No! you still have two completely different women in front of you. looking at the average means nothing,especially since there are so any other factors to appearance besides height and weight. there's the distribution of your weight, your natural body shape, your skin tone, your hair color. the list is infinite. there's no such thing as the average woman, every woman is different. and the media needs to stop trying to tell us otherwise.

and i tooootalllyy agree on the magazine thing. glamour supposedly preaches postitive body image among women (and i'm going to give them credit and say they're doing a way better job of that than any other mainstream magazine i've seen). yet, when i get to the whole "dress your body type" section there's four choices at the most and i can't decide whether i'm boyish or petite! so you're not alone there. those pieces are bull in my opinion because they often teach you to disguise your natural body shape instead of embracing it. they always tell the "boyish" women how to fake curves, or the pear-shaped women how to give the illusion of symmetry. i say wear what you like and what you feel good in. don't let a magazine tell you what you can and can't pull off.

so buttercups, you have a fellow "real women have curves" opponent.

i'm gonna start a body image movement called "real women have vaginas"! it'll catch on, you'll see.
karategrrl
QUOTE(DeeRayy @ Apr 27 2011, 05:46 AM) *
i'm gonna start a body image movement called "real women have vaginas"! it'll catch on, you'll see.

LOL!!!!!

OMG, you ladies are cracking me up totally this week! Love it, love it!!!
angie_21
DeeRay, it's almost impossible to predict how your body will respond, exactly, to losing and gaining weight. It turns out, I can gain or lose upwards of 20 pounds, and my breasts stay pretty much the exact same size. They're a touch smaller now, but it barely makes a difference. So for me, it's not much of a question. If they grew significantly when I gained weight elsewhere, no way I'd want to lose it lol. But one thing for sure, I felt so much better, inside and out, after losing weight last summer. It had a lot more to do with being stronger and tougher and having more energy than it did with how I looked (though I liked that too!). All those things helped me really stop worrying about how I looked so much.

One thing I can tell you, no matter what weight I've been at, the number one thing men respond to in all my experiences - a big, genuine smile.
strongirl
Kera, with your intelligence you should probably go into medicine or physics or computer science but geez, girl, if none of those pan out you have a sure shot at a career in stand-up comedy! You crack me up on a regular basis! biggrin.gif And I thank you for it!

Re. the fitness versus boobs thing, I tend to lose boobage with weight loss. And I have wrestled some with the fact that I know certain people (my parents especially) prefer me on the plumper and bustier side. But I just feel so much better within myself when I'm lean and strong, which is how I am most of the time. And this is my personal esthetic preference. When I've looked at implant "before and after" pics, my two strongest reactions are 1) most of them looked better before than after, and 2) they could have made a bigger improvement in my opinion by losing weight and getting in shape. Plus it would have benefitted their health rather than put it at risk, so win-win!

I totally agree with Angie re. the sincere smile. I also think flirting is becoming a lost art and that anyone who has the hang of it is in a totally advantaged position regardless of what they look like.

Over time we've mentioned a number of small-breasted porn stars in here. It would rock to have a compiled list with links. Not sure I'll get time to do that soon - anyone else want to give it a go?

Deeray, I think it's totally healthy that you are using that image to challenge the (false) belief planted by your ex-bf that small-breasted girls are less sexy. I think you are getting far more benefit from that than from that clueless therapist.


discowombat
QUOTE(strongirl @ Apr 27 2011, 09:40 AM) *
Over time we've mentioned a number of small-breasted porn stars in here. It would rock to have a compiled list with links. Not sure I'll get time to do that soon - anyone else want to give it a go?


I don't have time to make a whole list but I can add one to it: Misty Mundae! My fiance doesn't watch a lot of porn but he has let me know that he is a fan of hers. She tends to do spoof porn too like Spiderbabe (Spiderman) and Lord of the G-string (Lord of the Rings). I'd be willing to bet that her body is similar to a lot of us here.
KeraBear
QUOTE(strongirl @ Apr 27 2011, 09:40 AM) *
Kera, with your intelligence you should probably go into medicine or physics or computer science but geez, girl, if none of those pan out you have a sure shot at a career in stand-up comedy! You crack me up on a regular basis! biggrin.gif And I thank you for it!


Hey, thanks. Usually I don't feel like I really have enough life experience to give good advice. But I can always make someone smile. smile.gif A comedian? Sort of like another small-breasted superstar that I know - Sarah Silverman!

QUOTE(strongirl @ Apr 27 2011, 09:40 AM) *
Deeray, I think it's totally healthy that you are using that image to challenge the (false) belief planted by your ex-bf that small-breasted girls are less sexy. I think you are getting far more benefit from that than from that clueless therapist.


I was thinking this exact same thing. Your guy friend and his suggestion seemed to do way more good than the "professional." ...... oh yeah, and I second the idea that he may just have been flirting with you. YOWZA! wink.gif
babyblue
I feel as though I've missed so much!!! I got locked out of my account somehow, and BUST sent me a series of non-working passwords. Mega annoying!

I know I'm a bit late on this, but...

QUOTE(DeeRayy @ Apr 22 2011, 05:35 PM) *
I went ahead and told her why I came and we started talking about my issues with my breasts and why they affect me so much and she says this to me,
"I can see why it's such a struggle for you because often times breasts are what separates women from men."

but what do you guys think? am i just being too sensitive?


*z-snap* *helicopter neck* Oh HELL no! I reckon I would have closed-fist punched that counselor in the face! I'm happy to hear that you've found such an empowering image. It's nice to know that there's actually a porn star out there with a relatable body type who isn't solely billed as a "naughty schoolgirl" or whatever.

Just to throw in my two cents on the fitness issue, I most definitely experience the "Houdini boob" effect when I lose weight. I was on a major yoga and diet kick a couple years back, and while I LOVED the full-body results, I went from a 32A to a 30AA in a matter of months! It's tough for me to strike the right balance.

Count me in on the "real women have vaginas" campaign! While it's nice to see another societally "frowned-upon" body type get some positive attention, the message is definitely alienating to those of us who are just naturally petite/small-breasted/thin. As I creep closer to 30, I have begun to enjoy the fruits of the "you look so young for your age" comments (which I always used to hate). However, I would love to be described as "womanly." Just once.

You ladies are all so fantastic and inspiring! Passwords be damned! I'm back! smile.gif

strongirl
Hi Babyblue, welcome back, glad you're able to contribute again!

Houdini boob effect???!!! LOL That's too funny. Mine have always been "now you see 'em, now you don't" since I can gain and lose almost a cup size with hormonal changes, not just weight gain/loss.

As for the "youthful" look, I've never disliked it but as the "granny" of this group at almost 50, I REALLY appreciate it now. I consistently get mistaken for being in my late twenties or early thirties (happened earlier today with my mom's doctor). It's pretty sweet. I think I'd look more matronly now if I had big boobs.



KeraBear
Yeah, Strongirl! Still rocking it at almost 50!!!!!!! smile.gif

I think i mentioned this before, but when I was a freshman in high school, I would always be handed kids menus when I was out at restaurant. Embarrassing? Hell yeah! But not gonna lie, it was easy on the pocketbook. smile.gif
DeeRayy
haha, welcome back baby blue! i was wondering where you went. I'm really surprised that you have entered a support group thread for small breasts because you seem very together. i admire your upbeat attitude smile.gif

i also receive comments on how i look young for my age, especially when i'm not wearing any makeup or when my hair is left in its natural curls. i haaaate it now that i'm only a teenager but i just keep saying to myself "when i'm older, i'll love those kind of remarks!" and p.s. kera, i used to milk it too by buying youth admission tickets to the movie theaters. muahaha!

well this week has actually been a good week for me. the first good week in a while, as a matter of fact! i just got a new hairstyle and i've been getting lots of compliments, which is nice. some random lady at denny's even told me that i was pretty in the bathroom, which never happens to me! haha. but it still feels weird taking a compliment, and i try not to rely so much on other people's appoval. nonetheless, it's quite nice to hear.

but anyways, i'm also benefiting from a student health organization i'm involved in that has recently been putting on a lot of body image events lately. the most recent one that i volunteered at was a dive in movie, where "hairspray" was being shown on a screen next to one of the campus pools. now i am not trying to stereotype [excuse me if I offend anyone with this next comment] but the majority of students at my school are asian, and sooo i saw many girls there that were petite up top, like me. and i guess admiring the beauty of their bodies helped me see that small breasts are just as beautiful as any other kind. just seeing so many body types period made me feel better. i still wouldn't wear a swimsuit in public, but i'm working on it!

but uggghhh i have my next appointment with my darn counselor again this friday. this may very well be my last appointment with her if it's anything like last time.

i will leave here with my usual question for the group-
swimsuit season is coming up. do you have any problem wearing one? especially since they are all so low cut? and, what kind of swimsuits are best for small breasted women?
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