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strongirl
Thanks, Kera! smile.gif

Deeray - so glad you're having a good week! Yay!

A couple thoughts for you. Compliments can't substitute for self-esteem but they can help build it, especially when one's self-concept is negatively distorted to begin with - take it, enjoy it, use it to get in touch with the reality of how beautiful you really are. And be generous with the compliments you give out, too.

Just a thought re. the counselor, who sounds clueless when it comes to your issues - it may be more empowering for you to fire her than go again. Think about it at least.

On swimsuits, yes, I have problems wearing swimsuits...because I'd rather be naked at a clothes optional beach, LOL! But if I do have to wear one, I go for the skimpiest, least constructed little numbers to show off my toned body and lack of stretchmarks. On top, I love triangle tops and they're really popular right now - I go for unpadded but I find that the slight "bunching" or vertical wrinkles of the fabric (since the cups are always too big on me to be smooth and tight) gives the illusion of just a bit more size to my boobs.
babyblue
QUOTE(DeeRayy @ May 4 2011, 11:12 PM) *
haha, welcome back baby blue! i was wondering where you went. I'm really surprised that you have entered a support group thread for small breasts because you seem very together. i admire your upbeat attitude smile.gif


Thank you! smile.gif I have good and bad days... I always try to remain upbeat, though. When I was in my teens/early twenties, the bad days occured exponentially more often than the good ones. As I've learned more about myself, I've found that if I can focus on the things I love about me, then the things of which I'm less fond (*cough* boobs *cough*) don't hold as much importance. I don't have many girlfriends, but I have noticed an overarching theme through all of the female friendships I've had: Even the girls who have the "perfect" bodies that I would DIE for have what they consider to be a "problem area." My gorgeous, lithe, full B-cup BFF hates her thighs and wishes she had more muscle tone. My model-thin, C-cup sister bitches about her "flat ass." Of course, we're our own harshest critics. For this reason, compliments can definitely take us by surprise. The lady in the bathroom who told you that you're pretty, DeeRayy, was simply viewing you from an outsider's perspective. People won't always be so forthcoming, but I'm sure plenty of people share that woman's opinion!

Don't let all my positivity fool you, though. I can be a real hot mess sometimes! wink.gif I joined this group because I've always felt alone in my breastless frustration, and it is such sweet relief to know that I'm not.

As for the swimsuit issue, I see small-breasted women rocking the padded, push-up bikini tops on the beach, but I have never seen any such thing in my size! I stick with the unlined triangles, like strongirl mentioned. I LOVE Target (in general, but also for swimsuit shopping) because they actually allow you to purchase tops and bottoms separately. They don't always have XS tops, but I find that their Small size is usually perfect for me. Also, their bottoms are cut nicely for the most part. I'm not feeling the impossibly high-cut briefs with the 25-inch crotch... Who looks good in those?? I used to go for the more modest tops (as if I was really covering up the fact that I'm built like an adolescent, haha) but I've realized that the tinier triangles actually work to create the illusion of cleavage! I lived in the Miami area for 12 years, so I have definitely done some major swimwear experiments! Pretty sure South Beach is my own personal hell, though. EVERY woman seems to have canteloupe-sized implants, and many of them roam around topless. I went there with a boyfriend once, and I have never more strongly yearned for the ability to melt into a puddle of liquid WTF and wash myself away from a situation. Ugh, just thinking about it makes me feel stabby to this day...
auralpoison
This is very high in my top ten list of demented shit of the week: iPhone app that augments breasts. Of course, it's free & more men than women are downloading it. I can just see a table full of giggling asshats taking iPhone pics of women as they step onto the patio at happy hour & then playing with their dimensions like pervy Viktor Frankensteins.

I swear, some days I just want to run around slapping people that need it, like whoever decided this was a good idea. Seriously. Line. Them. Up. My pimp hand is strong enough for everybody.

ETA: Again, I did NOT post this to upset anybody or make anybody feel bad. This kinda stuff just sticks in my craw so much & I wanna share the goddamn outrage. I want to design an app that is a "Fuck YOUR app!" app so that we can let the people that peddle this crap know what we think about it.
DeeRayy
no offense auralpoison, but if you have a feeling that these articles might offend or upset the small breasted gals, then why do you post them on the small breast support group? we're supposed to be encouraging each other on here, not reminding each other of all the negative crap out there in the world. we already know that people can be insensitive jerks when it comes to women's bodies. i've encountered those kinds of people and like to avoid them whenever possible. i know you probably mean well, but do we really need you informing us when something like that iphone app happens? honestly, what good does it do here? i go to this place when i need to feel better about myself, and i certainly never feel better after reading those articles. this is supposed to be a place of positive energy, support, and strength- not a place of anger. once again, no offense.
KeraBear
QUOTE(auralpoison @ May 6 2011, 10:04 PM) *
I want to design an app that is a "Fuck YOUR app!" app so that we can let the people that peddle this crap know what we think about it.


LMAO!!!!!! I can totally get behind this!

I wasn't really offended really. I mean, that's just AP being.... AP. She needs a place to vent just like we do. I can appreciate where you are coming from, though, DeeRay.
KeraBear
Strongirl, I am envious of your ability to just rock it out at a clothing optional beach. That is like the ultimate in confidence right there. If I ever reach the point where I can just chill on the beach buck naked without freaking out on the inside (and out!)... that's when I know I've made it! smile.gif
DeeRayy
kera, i see your point now about her needing to vent too. i guess i'm just easier to upset than others. i wasn't trying to attack her or anything, i was just voicing my personal opinion about those posts.
DeeRayy
on another note, i saw fast five this weekend and i thought i was going to have to cringe and look away from a pair of implants every five minutes since it's a guy movie, but i was pleasantly surprised! all the actresses in that movie were small breasted hotties! besides 300, it's the only guy movie i've seen like that!
smile.gif
anarch
I was interested in AP's link. I may be misremembering, but I think the links posted here have often ranged from positive to outrage-worthy. I've found our group evisceration of the outrage-worthy ones to be therapeutic.

I want an app that passes judgment on men's body parts. Two wrongs don't make a right, but I think fewer men would feel entitled to pull this shit if they knew what it was like to be on the receiving end every day, everywhere. NOTHING teaches like experience.
strongirl
I was offended by the thought of the app (I didn't read it cuz why torture myself?). I wasn't offended by AP because I trust her intentions and Deeray made it clear that she wasn't offended by AP, either. But I do think that Deeray made an excellent point in that it's not particularly constructive for us to focus on that sort of thing. And when someone is having a "bad boob day", coming across something like that can really hurt.

We go to a lot of effort in here to debunk the myths that big boobs are better, including the myth that all men like them better than small boobs. Stuff like that app does the opposite - it reinforces the myth. While I think AP's reaction of outrage is very appropriate and shared in here, I personally don't think it's all that helpful for us to spend too much time in that headspace. As Anarch pointed out, the group evisceration can be therapeutic and it's helpful for the outraged person to get support, so I wouldn't want to "squelch" people posting things like that in here when they need that kind of support. But at the end of the day, our mental health is better served by reinforcing positive messages about small boobs, and body acceptance in general, rather than working up a head full of steam over stupid stuff like that app.

Kera, re. "rocking it" at clothes optional beaches and hot springs - thanks! smile.gif But really, the places I like to go are all about body acceptance and are family-friendly, naturist-oriented places, truly the opposite of a meat-market, swinger, competitive scene, so "confidence" isn't required as much as simple appreciation of the beauty and variety of the human body, including mine. That South Beach scene mentioned by babyblue sounds like Hell on Earth. No thank you!

Although I must confess to occasionally going topless at regular public beaches and parks, pushing the envelope of legality. wink.gif We haven't discussed the topfree rights movement in here that much but I do think it has relevance.
DeeRayy
strongirl, boy have you got some balls! if i can attain half the confidence you have by the end of college i'll be set smile.gif

i'm scheduled to volunteer at that dove "embracing real beauty" event. the speaker is going to be stacy nadeau. i looked her up and it actually made me feel less intimidated about going. she's actually kind of petite too! if she shares anything particularly helpful i'll be glad to share it with you guys. i'm still expecting the event to be catered towards curvy plus size women, but i'll just have to wait and see what it's like for myself.
strongirl
Ha, when I was in college a male friend told me I had "big ovaries", ie. the feminine equivalent of "big balls". I liked the expression and have used it since to compliment other women on their confidence...and it always gets a smile or a laugh. smile.gif

On the "real beauty" event, I'll use an expression I got from my teenage son: Represent!!! It seems like a perfect opportunity for you as a petite woman to speak up and point out that body acceptance goes both ways - if it's ok to be "curvy" then it ought to be ok to be "skinny" too. Or whatever. Body acceptance means just that.

Represent, DeeRayy!
karategrrl
On the swimsuit issue, I've found that it can be uber-challenging to find one that fits properly and is flattering and makes one feel great. It is time-consuming, but finding a brand that works for you is half the battle, I think. Lately I've been happy with one found through Venus (if you can get through looking at the suits on their busty models on their site and catalog). I just came back from an island vacation and was surprsied to really LIKE the way in looked in the suit I bought from there (when I saw our pictures). I got the enhancer top (it comes padded and also with humungo removable extra pads, wchich is dumbass...I removed the extra shit and was left with a flattering, slightly paddded top that made it look like I really and truly had bigger breasts, not just craply-shaped wannabe padding). Also they have lots of cuts of bottoms, which I like b/c I need a higher-cup bottom with my shortish legs. Only drawback was that the padded top retained water a bit. smile.gif

Also I like some from Newport News--much cheaper. Also you can find swimwear enhancers (I think they're called "Bravo"--available online) that you can insert in any top or suit. Nice, b/c then you dont' have to rule out an otherwise cute suit just b/c of no contouring/shaping. Let me empahsize that I typically don't like PADDING, just a tad of shaping/contouring--I find that even like 2- or 3-eighths-of-an-inch-thick shaping can make a huge difference in how a top drapes/fits. Plus it provides a tad of modesty for my highbeams. wink.gif
karategrrl
QUOTE(auralpoison @ May 7 2011, 02:04 AM) *
[color=#FF0000]This is very high in my top ten list of demented shit of the week: iPhone app that augments breasts. Of course, it's free & more men than women are downloading it. I can just see a table full of giggling asshats taking iPhone pics of women as they step onto the patio at happy hour & then playing with their dimensions like pervy Viktor Frankensteins.

Ha, I think Keira Knightly looks SUPER as-is, in their "before" pic.

auralpoison, how about an app that identifies dickheads and sounds an alarm? Apparently they have one for ghosts; why not pervy asshats? wink.gif

And feel free to vent here anytime. It's one of the few places we can do it with others who really GET IT.
babyblue
QUOTE(karategrrl @ May 10 2011, 09:13 AM) *
auralpoison, how about an app that identifies dickheads and sounds an alarm? Apparently they have one for ghosts; why not pervy asshats? wink.gif

Haha!!! I love it! Although I'd be afraid that it would just sound continuously, much like the alarm of an unattended vehicle. Dickheads are taking over the world!!!

On another note, I had a phone consultation yesterday with the woman who sold me my wedding dress. I am scheduled for a fitting in a couple of weeks, and was just calling to confirm my appointment... She said that she had a seamstress coming to the boutique to take care of the alterations and to "add the cups into the top," to which I replied, "Excuse me?" "Oh," she said, "I thought we had talked about that before. Because of your bust measurement, I figured you would want to add a little 'oomph', so we can get some pads sewn in there for you!" Boy, was I livid! I politely declined, and instead of shutting the f up, she told me "we" would still "keep it in mind." Now, I also practically fought with this woman over the length of my dress, as she was insistent that I wear heels since I'm 4'11". She actually refused to order the dress in the correct length, because she told me there was "no way" I would find low-heeled bridal shoes. I can't wait to march in there with my adorable Kate Spade flats and lack of "oomph." I mean, it's fine for me to wish I had bigger breasts, but for some reason, it is completely offensive for a virtual stranger to assume that! Maybe I'm being too sensitive. It wasn't the mere suggestion, it was the way she worded it and her tone of voice that really had me heated. Naturally, she's about 5'9" with huge boobs...
DeeRayy
babyblue, you were in no way being too sensitive. that woman was completely out of line to suggest that you add cups into the top. if you had inquired about it that would have been one thing, but for her to try and push it upon you is unacceptable! it's YOUR wedding dress and should be exactly as you want it. and for her to request that you still keep it in mind?? ohhhh my blood would have been boiling! boiling i say!

with that said, don't let her get you down! you're getting married and that's a beautiful thing. you're going to look GORGEOUS in your wedding gown [and i'm sure your fiance will agree with me on that]. that lady obviously knows nothing about how to treat a bride to be.


*note on the dove presentation. it was pretty much what i expected- a lot of talking about how you don't have to be a size two to be beautiful. i honestly get tired of hearing this time and time again because i grew up in a family of women who constantly criticize the thin women of the world. however, i guess i just have to keep in mind that obesity and excess weight is a growing problem here and that there are probably more women out there who can relate to the dove campaign than the small breast support group. it's so cliche to mention that the grass is always greener on the other side, but it's so true. anyway, she did do a very brief story on a woman she knew of who was naturally very thin and longed for curves. the basic point of the story was to tell the audience never to pass judgment on others because you never know what they struggle with. i appreciated that story but i still really wish the campaign would focus on more than just the desire to be thin. i mean, that's not the only thing women struggle with [as shown by this forum].

i couldn't help but feel like such a minority in that sea of people!
anarch
QUOTE(strongirl @ May 9 2011, 08:38 PM) *
Ha, when I was in college a male friend told me I had "big ovaries", ie. the feminine equivalent of "big balls".


Myself, I like using "S/he's got gonads!" (or, "Get some gonads, sheesh...") Gender-neutral & the hard g makes an excellent springboard to inflect the rest of the word "-onads!" with a biting level of feeling.

babyblue, DeeRayy's right, you were NOT being too sensitive. It's infuriating to state your wishes and have someone disrespect them.

I don't see why "real beauty" campaigns can't be more inclusive. "Real beauty comes in all shapes and sizes"...has that already been a slogan for something or other? Something like that doesn't support one class of people at the expense of another. Anyway, small boobs don't only come on small body types. Reality is more complicated than advertisers like to acknowledge.

karategrrl
QUOTE(babyblue @ May 10 2011, 11:13 PM) *
Haha!!! I love it! Although I'd be afraid that it would just sound continuously, much like the alarm of an unattended vehicle. Dickheads are taking over the world!!!

LOL!!! laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif

That bridal bitch!!! I am POed at how she treated you! Yes, YOU are the bride and it's all about how YOU want to look and how YOU feel most beautiful! Too bad you've already bought the dress--I'd bring my business elsewhere and tell her why to boot. My sis in law wore low-heeled brtidal shoes and changed later into brand-new canvas sneaks. We have a great photo of her lifitng up her dress and kicking her leg with the sneaker on, and a crowd of her friends watching and cheering.

Fuck that bridal beeeotch!!! Whew, I feel better.
KeraBear
QUOTE(karategrrl @ May 11 2011, 03:27 PM) *
That bridal bitch!!!
Fuck that bridal beeeotch!!! Whew, I feel better.



Seconded! Ohmygosh that makes me so angry too!! Reminds me of some bustier friends that I know who make their snide comments and suggestions about improving my chest, always trying to be "helpful" of course. As if we are people to be pitied somehow. rolleyes.gif
KeraBear
Question for Strongirl - about these places you were talking about. How old were you when you first started going? Were you sorta scared at first?
Eris_Sweetleaf
QUOTE(strongirl @ May 9 2011, 11:38 PM) *
Ha, when I was in college a male friend told me I had "big ovaries", ie. the feminine equivalent of "big balls". I liked the expression and have used it since to compliment other women on their confidence...and it always gets a smile or a laugh. smile.gif

On the "real beauty" event, I'll use an expression I got from my teenage son: Represent!!! It seems like a perfect opportunity for you as a petite woman to speak up and point out that body acceptance goes both ways - if it's ok to be "curvy" then it ought to be ok to be "skinny" too. Or whatever. Body acceptance means just that.

Represent, DeeRayy!


It is okay to be skinny, as long as you're not skinny in a way that actually damages your health (much like how being overweight can be damaging too) but I think the biggest problem is that images of anorexia, eating disorders and who suffers from them has been pushed into our faces so much that for a lot of people they qucikly forget that anyone who isn't 'curvy' isn't starving themselves. tongue.gif

Personally, I find it frustrating that a lot of women are using their personal suffrage as a way to gauge who deserves the most respect and often tune out other people who don't have problems like them. Of course, these are the drama queens but unfortunately like so many things in our culture, the loudest people get the most attention even if their cause is not doing ANYONE any sort of favor or good.

I want to see more body respect for all women, not just small chested or curvy women but ALL women. Its not a movement when one group has to be used as an example of what isn't human or beautiful so I guess it doesn't come to any surprise that I don't agree with women who say that only one size makes a real woman.

Scary thing is, these ladies are sounding just like the men who say the exact same thing...but I guess because they are women, what they say is uplifting despite the fact that its the same hurtful message. An insult will remain an insult, no matter who says it but people so quickly forget this. At least with this kind of thinking, its easy to find those who just want their asses-kissed and those who are willing to sit down and listen to the stories of EVERYONE, not just those who look like them.

Funny thing is, I wrote a comic script based on this entire debate as well as the small breast discussion yet I have yet to flesh it out or draw it. Urgh, I should stop being lazy and do something about it because this story is meant to be told and should be told. laugh.gif
strongirl
Eris_Sweetleaf, if you have the talent and ability to use comic drawing as a medium for telling a story that uplifts and humanizes us all, you dang well better get to work, woman!

Kera, to answer your questions, I was maybe 20, 21 when I first went to the clothes optional hot springs that is still my favorite place on earth. I was a bit scared initially but my family had always been pretty accepting of body stuff and nudity around the house, so I think I was in a better place than people who don't run around naked at all, even at home. Honestly, I didn't have a hang-up about being small-breasted then, I was more worried about looking "fat" (which I wasn't but that was my body dysmorphism of choice at that age). And at first I did do a lot of "comparision looking" - checking out other people's bodies and running them through my internal assessment system of whether they looked good, whether the females looked better than me, etc. Plus there's the whole "sex = nudity or does it?" thing that comes up when you first start doing clothes optional stuff. But all that nutty thinking lasted maybe - an hour? A few hours? I've taken a lot of first-timer friends there over the years and it always amazes me how quickly most people get over their issues and just relax. There are always kids there, and older folks (even older than I am now, LOL). And it's in a beautiful natural setting. So it's actually difficult to stay tense or be unhappy about your appearance. It feels really good there.

The one downside is that it does spoil ya - I absolutely loathe swimsuits and resent having to wear one! Thus the "envelope-pushing" in other settings (plus it's naughty fun). I've been "illegally" top-free everywhere from Pueblo Reservoir here in Colorado, to a sailboat pulling into a harbor on Tortola, British Virgin Islands, where the captain asked me to put my top back on so he wouldn't lose his license. Oh yeah, my little girls do get around. smile.gif

karategrrl
QUOTE(Eris_Sweetleaf @ May 12 2011, 12:02 AM) *
Funny thing is, I wrote a comic script based on this entire debate as well as the small breast discussion yet I have yet to flesh it out or draw it. Urgh, I should stop being lazy and do something about it because this story is meant to be told and should be told. laugh.gif

YES, YES! REPRESENT!!

Thank you for the "represent" reminder, strongirl. I should keep that in mind when I'm the odd duck in the room or on the beach--I'm not the one who doesn't belong, but the one who most needs to...to REPRESENT! wink.gif
karategrrl
QUOTE(strongirl @ May 12 2011, 12:30 PM) *
I've been "illegally" top-free everywhere from Pueblo Reservoir here in Colorado, to a sailboat pulling into a harbor on Tortola, British Virgin Islands, where the captain asked me to put my top back on so he wouldn't lose his license. Oh yeah, my little girls do get around. smile.gif

You made my day.
karategrrl
On a note related to the "real women have curves" thing, I looked up breast augmentation surgery stats yesterday and found some interesting things. First off, 300,000 (That's three HUNDRED THOUSAND) women in the U.S. had the procedure in 2010. Mainly, it seems (according to this survery, anyway) that most women who get augmented are thinner. They also tend to be youngish (under 30-35, I thinnk) and feel more "confident" with them despite also reporting that they overwhelmingly feel that portrayals and expectations of women's bodies are sexualized and unfair. Though I do understand the pressure to be bigger and the desire to do so, the "expectations" simultaneously piss me off and are one of the reasons I would probably never get augmented myself. I've said it before and I'll say it again--if the expectation was that smaller was better, women would be going to droves to plastic surgeons for REDUCTION surgery. It's our attitudes that need to change, not our bods. (I'm tryng to find the link but since I'm at work the site is blocked as "p0rn.") no long-term survey answers were available; those who responded to the survey had had the procedure a few months previous.

And not that we care about what men think as much as what we think, but also interesting was that they surveryed some men, too. All said they liked their partner's implants post-op, but the reason WHY was that her CONFIDENCE soared afterward. Seems that what they like best is not the bigger breasts per se but the bigger confidence. Interesting.


Hey, anyone have any updates from our sistah who had breast augmentation surgery? (I think it was "spot-on??") Been wondering how she is doing and feeling and I don't have her email address easily accessible. Figured I'd ask here before I pester her personally. wink.gif And let me add that I DO respect her decision though it's not for me. Just hoping she's still doing well now that she's probably 2 or 3 months post-op.
babyblue
QUOTE(karategrrl @ May 11 2011, 02:27 PM) *
LOL!!! laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif

That bridal bitch!!! I am POed at how she treated you! Yes, YOU are the bride and it's all about how YOU want to look and how YOU feel most beautiful! Too bad you've already bought the dress--I'd bring my business elsewhere and tell her why to boot. My sis in law wore low-heeled brtidal shoes and changed later into brand-new canvas sneaks. We have a great photo of her lifitng up her dress and kicking her leg with the sneaker on, and a crowd of her friends watching and cheering.

Fuck that bridal beeeotch!!! Whew, I feel better.

Haha!!! I feel better just reading that! Thanks to everyone for reassuring me that I'm not just overreacting. I certainly wouldn't have minded if she had merely asked me whether or not I was interested in padding the top of my dress. I really felt as if she was indirectly saying "You would look so much better if you were taller and had bigger breasts," and that's what set me off! I specifically chose my dress because I think it flatters my body type, and while I have definitely never been the girl who has dreamed about her "perfect" wedding, I want to feel beautiful on the big day. I can do without the unsolicited advice of the "bridal bitch!" Yay for your sister-in-law and her awesome sneakers! Traditions are fine, but I think it's more important to be comfortable and to let your personality shine through. I let my bridesmaids pick their own dresses for this very reason. Each girl is gorgeous in her own way! I still have nightmares about the strapless fucshia bridesmaid dress I had to tape to my chest to keep from sliding off mid-aisle walk. I was so uncomfortable the whole night... Strapless tops always give me the oh-so-lovely "hot dogs" a.k.a. those squishy armpit-fat lines, even though I'm relatively thin.
karategrrl, that study sounds VERY interesting! I'd love to see the full results. As I mentioned before, I went in for an augmetation consultation a couple years ago, and I have never felt more awkward in my life! I went to a female plastic surgeon because I thought she would be more empathetic, but she spent the whole session trying to convince me that a full B cup (which I had requested) would simply not be big enough to make a satisfying difference, and that I should go to at least a full C. She had me stuff some massive implants under my shirt and look in the mirror, and I couldn't help bursting into laughter. The implants felt so gross and unnatural, and I looked utterly ridiculous. I'm glad I had this appointment, because I thought for 10 years that I wanted a breast augmentation, and this cemented the fact that surgery is not for me. On the other hand, I have a couple of friends who went through with the procedure and they are both very happy with the results (one has had her implants for about 5 years, the other 3 years, and both were about my size pre-op.) I definitely understand why women do it, and I would never judge anyone poorly for making that decision.
DeeRayy
speaking of all this talk of plastic surgery, i find myself confused about my feelings towards it right now. i mean, i'm in the process of getting into a healthier lifestyle since my family has never been very health nutty at all. and now that i'm making an effort to eat better and exercise i feel great! i have more energy and overall i just feel better about myself. but i still am so very self conscious about my chest. karategrrl, you said that what the men in the study liked about their girlfriends afterwards was their increase in confidence, and i know that confidence is what i'm really missing. i guess it just feels like surgery is my only choice sometimes. i know i was the person who said that whole thing about not being able to look in the mirror and say that the only way i can accept myself is with implants if i wouldn't want a guy to do the same, which is why i'm so conflicted. but i mean, this is my body and i'm the one that has to live in it everyday. but at the same time i cringe at the idea of having silicone boobs, and i fear that i'll be judged by others. see, so conflicted!

however, i'm not ruling out body dysmorphic disorder right now because if there's one thing i've noticed about my feelings towards my body is that i'm always obsessed with some type of flaw that in my eyes is huge and embarrassing. before it was my breasts, it was my nose. before it was my nose, it was my curly hair. you get the idea. and now it's starting to shift to my weight [even though i still am in no way over my feelings about my breasts either, but my focus right now is more so my weight than my breasts at the current moment] . i'm just never satisfied! it weighs me down so much, and it keeps me from just living my life sometimes. i can't diagnose myself, i know. but my darn counselor thinks this is all about my ex, and she doesn't get that i was pretty much just like this looooong before him. grrrr, i need a new therapist.
KeraBear
QUOTE(karategrrl @ May 12 2011, 09:54 AM) *
Though I do understand the pressure to be bigger and the desire to do so, the "expectations" simultaneously piss me off and are one of the reasons I would probably never get augmented myself. I've said it before and I'll say it again--if the expectation was that smaller was better, women would be going to droves to plastic surgeons for REDUCTION surgery. It's our attitudes that need to change, not our bods.


YES. THIS. Although easier said than done. I still have many many bad boobie days, but I'll tell you what - I have gotten soooooooo much better since I came here.

Strongirl - thanks for answering my questions and sharing your experience. It's a shame that you have to keep those lil fugitive-wannabes under wraps most of the time. Frrrrrrrrrrrreeeeeeeeddddoooooommm!! smile.gif I am intrigued by your stories of these places and feel like it would be a big step towards body acceptance if i went at least once in my life. But i get scared as hell every time I think about it.

DeeRayy - yeah, i hate to say this, but it definitely sounds like you need to drop this therapist like a bad habit. Or talk to that awesome guy-friend of yours. He seems to "get it." wink.gif But in all seriousness, you should request a new one. Do you think they could refer you to someone who specializes in BDD issues? Don't give up!
karategrrl
QUOTE(babyblue @ May 12 2011, 05:41 PM) *
>I went in for an augmetation consultation a couple years ago, and I have never felt more awkward in my life! I went to a female plastic surgeon because I thought she would be more empathetic, but she spent the whole session trying to convince me that a full B cup (which I had requested) would simply not be big enough to make a satisfying difference, and that I should go to at least a full C. She had me stuff some massive implants under my shirt and look in the mirror, and I couldn't help bursting into laughter. The implants felt so gross and unnatural, and I looked utterly ridiculous. I'm glad I had this appointment, because I thought for 10 years that I wanted a breast augmentation, and this cemented the fact that surgery is not for me. On the other hand, I have a couple of friends who went through with the procedure and they are both very happy with the results (one has had her implants for about 5 years, the other 3 years, and both were about my size pre-op.) I definitely understand why women do it, and I would never judge anyone poorly for making that decision.

Wow, I must have missed that post. Yeah, many women who have it done say they wished they'd gone bigger, and I think that motivates many surgeons to push for larger. One thing that REALLY bothers me is that I've heard of some surgeons going larger than the patient requested, on the table after she is anesthetized. Sometimes the dr. and patient can only agree of a range of size, and it's up to the dr. to make the final decision. My god, if I woke up to some massive "look at me" hooters when all I wanted was a full B, I'd be serously fucked up in the head.

I think they don't understand that if you're really itty-bitty, even small implants would make a HUGE difference. That's what I actually liked about spot-on's implants--they were really well-proportioned, surprisingly modest. I also think maybe that's why she had such a smooth recovery--smaller implants=less trauma.

That's just one of the myriad of reasons I can't do it--I'd only want to go a tad larger--not worth the trouble. I like being smallish.
KeraBear
QUOTE(karategrrl @ May 13 2011, 08:07 AM) *
Wow, I must have missed that post. Yeah, many women who have it done say they wished they'd gone bigger, and I think that motivates many surgeons to push for larger. One thing that REALLY bothers me is that I've heard of some surgeons going larger than the patient requested, on the table after she is anesthetized. Sometimes the dr. and patient can only agree of a range of size, and it's up to the dr. to make the final decision. My god, if I woke up to some massive "look at me" hooters when all I wanted was a full B, I'd be serously fucked up in the head.

I think they don't understand that if you're really itty-bitty, even small implants would make a HUGE difference. That's what I actually liked about spot-on's implants--they were really well-proportioned, surprisingly modest. I also think maybe that's why she had such a smooth recovery--smaller implants=less trauma.

That's just one of the myriad of reasons I can't do it--I'd only want to go a tad larger--not worth the trouble. I like being smallish.


Yeah, I feel ya, Karategrrl. As much as I talk about about how jealous I am of my sister's Cs, the truth is I would rather be on the smaller side. It would just be nice to have just a little more... enough to drop the "let" from my booblets!

And yes, I would also be horrified to wake up and find a set of frankenboobs! That is just scary!
karategrrl
QUOTE(KeraBear @ May 14 2011, 07:19 PM) *
And yes, I would also be horrified to wake up and find a set of frankenboobs! That is just scary!

LOL! Frankenboobs! Funny how they call the bad half-melon implants "bolt-ons," ain't it? wink.gif
KeraBear
QUOTE(karategrrl @ May 16 2011, 08:28 AM) *
LOL! Frankenboobs! Funny how they call the bad half-melon implants "bolt-ons," ain't it? wink.gif


They're alive! They're alive!!!! *mad laughter*
strongirl
OMG, that is just TOO flippin' funny! LOL "They're alive!" I could swear I saw flickering lights when I read that! I am hurting myself laughing! Thanks, Kera and karategrrl!

DeeRayy
ahaha, kerabear, you're adorable smile.gif

i like being on the smaller end of the spectrum too. the biggest i'd ever want to be would be a full b-cup. anything over that would be kind of excessive on my frame, and i think smaller ones are prettier (not that every pair of breasts isn't beautiful). but yes, it would be nice to have just a little more so that i could fill out clothes easier. i get confused because i actually measured out to be a small b-cup when i recently took my bust measurements. but i'm guessing it has to do with the fact that when i have measured myself i did it topless and when the cold air hits my nipples stand up and wave hello to the world. and i measure around them, so i figure they add about an extra half inch when in full salute.

although i have to admit i have noticed they've become more shapely recently. i figure this could be due to one of three things- 1)my doctor recently put me on birth control to regulate my period 2)i've been working out more and have been doing push ups regularly 3) i'm not completely done with puberty yet (i pray it's this one haha, but it's probably the least likely considering i'm nineteen). ooor it could just be in my head. it's not that they've really increased in size [i still wear an a-cup,], but they do seem to be a bit rounder and appear a little fuller at the bottom. i'm not complaining, but i really hope it's not the birth control, because that means it's only temporary.

this is unrelated to breasts, but what are your guys' thoughts on birth control? i've felt kinda weird ever since starting the pill.
karategrrl
QUOTE(DeeRayy @ May 17 2011, 05:08 AM) *
this is unrelated to breasts, but what are your guys' thoughts on birth control? i've felt kinda weird ever since starting the pill.

I think you meant, "you guys?" If so, I was lucky enough to find a good pill I like and that doesn't mess with me. Makes my periods lighter and cramps less. However, I am endlessly annoyed when women COMPLAIN about breast growth while on the pill. Hasn't happened to me!!! mad.gif mad.gif
KeraBear
QUOTE(DeeRayy @ May 17 2011, 01:08 AM) *
although i have to admit i have noticed they've become more shapely recently. i figure this could be due to one of three things- 1)my doctor recently put me on birth control to regulate my period 2)i've been working out more and have been doing push ups regularly 3) i'm not completely done with puberty yet (i pray it's this one haha, but it's probably the least likely considering i'm nineteen). ooor it could just be in my head. it's not that they've really increased in size [i still wear an a-cup,], but they do seem to be a bit rounder and appear a little fuller at the bottom. i'm not complaining, but i really hope it's not the birth control, because that means it's only temporary.

this is unrelated to breasts, but what are your guys' thoughts on birth control? i've felt kinda weird ever since starting the pill.


Hmm... well, I remember Karategrrl mentioned something once before about "muscle cleaveage" but I think that is more about the illusion rather than actual changes. As far as still being in puberty, it isn't that far fetched! I have a cousin who gained a cup size when she was in college. She didn't have any real weight gain or anything. It just sort of... happened. I am a "late bloomer" myself. I didn't get my first period until I was 15 and a half (!!!), and even then it wasn't until like a year after that that I got my (small) boob spurt. But I didn't have much up until that point, so it was much appreciated (thank you Goddess Puberty!!!), but since i was so late with periods and boobs, I am still holding out hope for a late B cup miracle. smile.gif When you did you start your periods? Were you a late bloomer too? There's still hope. If not, no worries. Booblets can be sexy, toooooooooo! smile.gif
DeeRayy
QUOTE(KeraBear @ May 17 2011, 01:44 PM) *
but since i was so late with periods and boobs, I am still holding out hope for a late B cup miracle. smile.gif When you did you start your periods? Were you a late bloomer too? There's still hope. If not, no worries. Booblets can be sexy, toooooooooo! smile.gif

haha, yeah i was a pretty late bloomer too. i don't think i had an actual period until i was about 15 too. i spotted a little when i was fourteen,but now that i look back i don't think that counted as one. i felt like a freak because all the women in my family got theirs in like, elementary school! and i didn't get mine til the beginning of high school. i felt like something was seriously wrong with me. but my new doctor recently eased my mind about all that, and thinks fifteen is actually a more normal age to get it at than eleven or twelve. so you're not the only one kera smile.gif But i'm not counting on a growth spurt since there's never any guarantees with that area. and you're right, if not that's perfectly fine because there's nothing wrong with being in the a- cup crowd.

haha, if only i could feel as good about my boobs as i do when i'm on here all the time! in time i guess smile.gif

karategrrl, yeah sorry about the typo. i haven't experienced any actual size increase either. but i actually know a girl who's guy friend COMPLAINED when his girlfriend's breasts grew after she went on the pill. he literally said, "god, they're getting all big! it's gross! i don't want anything to do with them anymore!" (of course i hope he was joking about the last sentence). not only that, but my mom's boss actually got bummed out when his wife's breasts grew after having kids. grrrr, where are all these guys who love small boobs hiding???
Eris_Sweetleaf
QUOTE(DeeRayy @ May 17 2011, 06:27 PM) *
haha, yeah i was a pretty late bloomer too. i don't think i had an actual period until i was about 15 too. i spotted a little when i was fourteen,but now that i look back i don't think that counted as one. i felt like a freak because all the women in my family got theirs in like, elementary school! and i didn't get mine til the beginning of high school. i felt like something was seriously wrong with me. but my new doctor recently eased my mind about all that, and thinks fifteen is actually a more normal age to get it at than eleven or twelve. so you're not the only one kera smile.gif But i'm not counting on a growth spurt since there's never any guarantees with that area. and you're right, if not that's perfectly fine because there's nothing wrong with being in the a- cup crowd.

haha, if only i could feel as good about my boobs as i do when i'm on here all the time! in time i guess smile.gif

karategrrl, yeah sorry about the typo. i haven't experienced any actual size increase either. but i actually know a girl who's guy friend COMPLAINED when his girlfriend's breasts grew after she went on the pill. he literally said, "god, they're getting all big! it's gross! i don't want anything to do with them anymore!" (of course i hope he was joking about the last sentence). not only that, but my mom's boss actually got bummed out when his wife's breasts grew after having kids. grrrr, where are all these guys who love small boobs hiding???


I don't think they're hiding....its just the fact that the ones who scream out like horny monkeys that they love big boobies are the ones who are treated as if they words as gospel. Sad but its so fitting and satisfying to hear other guys go 'BULLSHIT! I don't think that like!! D8<'

As a cartoonist, I'm surrounded by men (and women) who either are totally obsessed with drawing HUGE breast or the guys who actually exercise their talents and draw boobs of all sizes. The ones who know that they get more respect out of their fans if they actually draw a variety of body types (and not just of women, men as well XD) have my love and fandom! XD
KeraBear
QUOTE(DeeRayy @ May 17 2011, 06:27 PM) *
haha, yeah i was a pretty late bloomer too. i don't think i had an actual period until i was about 15 too. i spotted a little when i was fourteen,but now that i look back i don't think that counted as one. i felt like a freak because all the women in my family got theirs in like, elementary school! and i didn't get mine til the beginning of high school. i felt like something was seriously wrong with me. but my new doctor recently eased my mind about all that, and thinks fifteen is actually a more normal age to get it at than eleven or twelve. so you're not the only one kera smile.gif But i'm not counting on a growth spurt since there's never any guarantees with that area. and you're right, if not that's perfectly fine because there's nothing wrong with being in the a- cup crowd.


OMG I know! I know what you mean about feeling like a freak. Not only was I the only girl in high school without her period (that's what it seemed like anyways), but I was also shorter than my classmates and barely any breasts to speak of, so I also felt like the school runt. But you know, not that I have almost three years of monthly bleeding under my belt (no pun intended. HA!), I actually sort of feel blessed that I got to go 15 years without one. smile.gif But I certainly didn't feel like it at the time. I didn't think it would ever happen.
KeraBear
QUOTE(Eris_Sweetleaf @ May 17 2011, 06:41 PM) *
As a cartoonist, I'm surrounded by men (and women) who either are totally obsessed with drawing HUGE breast or the guys who actually exercise their talents and draw boobs of all sizes. The ones who know that they get more respect out of their fans if they actually draw a variety of body types (and not just of women, men as well XD) have my love and fandom! XD


Hey... yeah!!! Comic book heroines are so ridiculous. They have these heeeeeugge boobs and then their bodies are like size zero. In real life, their backs would wrecked from carrying so much weight up there! Yeah, you are right. Much more respect for variety. I am surprised that a lot of women cartoonists do that, too... why do you think that is? Industry pressure?

Are you a comic book artist? btw, I LOVE your idea of a comic based on the experiences of us "smallies" that you mentioned a few posts back Please share with us if you ever get that off the ground!
DeeRayy
QUOTE(Eris_Sweetleaf @ May 17 2011, 03:41 PM) *
I don't think they're hiding....its just the fact that the ones who scream out like horny monkeys that they love big boobies are the ones who are treated as if they words as gospel. Sad but its so fitting and satisfying to hear other guys go 'BULLSHIT! I don't think that like!! D8<'

As a cartoonist, I'm surrounded by men (and women) who either are totally obsessed with drawing HUGE breast or the guys who actually exercise their talents and draw boobs of all sizes. The ones who know that they get more respect out of their fans if they actually draw a variety of body types (and not just of women, men as well XD) have my love and fandom! XD


that is true, i've definitely noticed a bias when it comes to animated women. i also find it weird that even the female cartoonists do this. but i'm glad there are a few who portray variety.

this is just me venting, but i just got my blood results back from the doctor and it turns out that my thyroid activity is abnormal (which could explain the struggle that i've always had with my weight), and i'm already worried about it but i can't talk to my doctor about it until my appointment in july! uggghh, i've been in and out of the doctors so much recently that it seriously feels like my body is broken and refuses to work. it's so frustrating sad.gif


KeraBear

QUOTE(Eris_Sweetleaf @ May 17 2011, 06:41 PM) *
I don't think they're hiding....its just the fact that the ones who scream out like horny monkeys that they love big boobies are the ones who are treated as if they words as gospel.


HAHAHA! How did I miss this? Hilarious! And true...

DeeRayy - Big hugs to you! Everything will be okay. You'll see.
karategrrl
DeeRayy, sorry to hear about your thyroid issues. Can you move the appointment sooner, considering you have something that needs to be addressed? that must be frustrating, to feel out of touch with your health and wellness. Do whatever you can to be gentle with yourself and connect with yourself, if that makes any sense. <<hugs>>

Horny monkeys? Bwahahahahaha!!!!!

muscle cleavage:
Yeah, the "cleavage" I speak of isn't true breast tissue, but when you work your pecs, you get definition in the middle of your chest--a nice little line--and more mass under the breasts for sure, which does push the breasts forward a little. It really does shape everything nicely. I will never have people comment, "man, what big breasts you have!" but I get lots of folks commenting on my definition, shoulders, upper body. So it does make a difference. I do have more shape since I started working out in a dedicated fashion. I don't look like a fitness freak by a long shot, but I don't look bony and skinny up top anymore. smile.gif And I have to say I think more "shape" is what a lot of women want when they are thin in their upper bods, but they think implants are the only way to get it. I want to shout this from the rooftops.

I got my period early--three months short of my 12th birthday. And my breasts were very small then and still are small. At the time, it was horrifying to get my period, as I was a tomboy and didn't want to be a girl, and the boys--and girls--teased the girls who showed outward signs of puberty, i.e., breasts, so I flew under the radar and was grateful for it. The periods I could hide.
strongirl
ErisSweetleaf - your job (and you) sound so cool! I'm jealous. (hating life as a software developer at the moment, tho this too shall pass)

On the period timing, I got mine at 12 too. And really my body has not changed much since that point - I stopped getting taller, my boobs stayed the same. I can still fit the few clothes from middle school that I kept.

DeeRay - I have hypo-thyroid, too. Got diagnosed several years ago. It's a large complicated topic and I don't want to totally derail us here but a few important things. Do not wait until July! My rx got messed up last January due to an insurance/pharmacy issue and I blew off doing anything about it for 3 months. Then in March, they said I simply could not have any more till I saw my doctor - who couldn't see me till April 15. Well boy, do I regret the 4 months of inadequate meds. I am very unwell - hopefully coming out of it but still paying in multiple ways. When you say your "body feels broken" - I understand COMPLETELY. Don't mess around with this - get into a doctor and get on thyroid meds ASAP! (synthetic vs animal is a whole nother topic but regardless, don't go without!)

Sorry to digress, ladies. Back to boobs.
DeeRayy
karategrrl, thanks for the hugs. hugs back to you smile.gif

strongirl, it's really cool to know you understand what i'm talking about. my doc thinks my problems are hormonal imbalances and she wants me to give my birth control three months before doing anything. my bloodwork doesn't say exactly what's up with my thyroid, it's just marked as "a" for abnormal. it ticks me off because my irregular periods combined with my thyroid activity shows there's clearly something wrong with me but she wrote on the bloodwork that there's no need to see me until she does my check up for how the birth control is working, which is already set for july 18. should i still move my appointment up anyway?
strongirl
DeeRay - Complicated questions. Low thyroid can mess up your periods and other hormones - it's the body's "regulator". But birth control can also cause thyroid hormone levels to go down - estrogen increases the amount of thyroid-binding protein in the blood which means there's less thyroid hormone available for use by the rest of the body. You probably just got tested for TSH level - do you know the actual number or just that it was "Abnormal"?

Thyroid disease is increasingly common, some people are even saying "epidemic". Because of that, there's a ton of info available online which is nice but can be overwhelming. However, I think you should read over a few of the symptom checklists that are out there and evaluate for yourself whether or not you're having actual thyroid symptoms. It's not always clear cut (like for me - menopause or thyroid? simple aging or thyroid?) but if you have many of the checklist symptoms you should escalate with your doctor or switch doctors and get treated. Like I said, leaving this untreated can have some really nasty consequences.

Here's a pretty good symptom checklist (keep reading under the risk factor checklist):

http://thyroid.about.com/cs/hypothyroidism/a/checklist.htm

Big hugs to you, DeeRay.
DeeRayy
strongirl- no they did not disclose the actual number to me. my copy of the results just stated abnormal. But my cholesterol also showed up as elevated [though not classifiable as high] which alarms me because i don't even eat high cholesterol foods! not regularly at least. and high cholesterol has come up on a few of the hypothyroid symptom checklists. i'm just gonna move my appointment up to june since i'll have finished my third pack of pills by then anyway. i have a good number of symptoms, but pretty mild forms of them.

but i think we've shot off on this tangent long enough, i'll just have to make some calls and wait and see. but thanks a bunch for the advice strongirl! it is very much appreciated.

let us now get back to our praise of booblets smile.gif
karategrrl
QUOTE(DeeRayy @ May 19 2011, 03:05 AM) *
let us now get back to our praise of booblets smile.gif


No apologies needed for getting "derailed," ladies. Personally, from being part of this forum for, well, let's just say an embarassingly long time, wink.gif I'm always amazed at how everything is all related and connected to breasts. Amazing how two small mounds of mammary are such a large part of our body image, health, psychology etc. so to me it all connects.
DeeRayy
Karategrrl, agreed! what also amazes me is how the topic of breasts seems to some up so darn regularly in everyday life! it definitely irritates me sometimes. just today, as a matter of fact, i had not given a though to the size of my breasts the whole day until an incident in my comparative lit class. when i attend lecture today we viewed a movie called Un Chien Andalou [since we're studying the surrealists right now]. I was fine until about seven minutes into it when a man starts feeling up a woman's breasts and picturing them naked [which is completely shown in the film]. Then aaaalllll of those self conscious feelings I have about my breasts started darting around in my head. what made it even worse is that i have a crush on a friend that sits next to me in that class, so i felt mighty awkward and distracted when we were walking back to the parking lot together after class. and yesterday as well, we were watching a documentary on colonization in my anthro class and long story short all the women in the native tribe being observed walk around topless and one of the native women started to tease the younger teenage girls about their small breasts in one scene. grrr! i feel like i can't go one friggin day without the subject of boobs coming up lately.

do you ladies get uncomfortable when breasts are shown in a movie? how about when the subject of breasts comes up randomly in conversation with others? do you get all squirmy and uncomfortable like me? and if not, how do you handle it?
angie_21
Hey girls, I have a lot to catch up on. I finished my school semester but I had to drop everything else in my life to do it. Then went on vacation and there was no cell coverage, no 3G, and no wireless where we stayed! It was beautiful. I'm off to Alaska again in 10 days but I wanted to say hi before going.

Babyblue, I hope you get exactly the wedding dress you ordered! You had every right to be mad, just because you ordered a specific dress and she wanted to change it because of her own assumptions, and she thought her assumptions were more important than your own desires for the dress. You're the one wearing it, not her! At my wedding, people better not care if I want to prance down the aisle in a red bikini holding a bouquet of condoms, I'll damn well do what I want regardless of what tradition or convention says. (haha I wouldn't do that, as fun as it would be, my mother would be mortified!)

DeeRay, I hope things work out, stand your ground with the doctors and if something doesn't feel right, don't let them tell you otherwise. However. Your body is NOT broken. Don't let yourself fall into that, I know it's hard, but even if there is a hormone imbalance or thyroid problem, you will be OK and things can be done, and you will feel better. I know how you feel, I had some problems a couple years ago, not just with possible pcos as I talked about in the birth control thread, but with an irritable bladder and other things. I was lucky, I guess, that a lot of things were stress related and have since resolved on their own, but at the time I really felt like I couldn't trust my own body and it was letting me down. There's lots you can do for yourself while you're waiting, especially for these specific things - look up thyroid-friendly diets, which I bet will be similar to a pre-diabetic diet. Stop eating processed foods, and try to minimize anything and everything with added sugars and artificial sweeteners. IF you can afford it, make sure all your meat and diary is organic, without added hormones. Exercise. If you can afford it, seek a second opinion, and try to find out if being on the BCP will influence the thyroid tests in any way. Send me a pm if you want, I don't want to derail too much either, but this thread is OK for that smile.gif

When I was 15 I was planning to get implants, but by the time I was old enough and had the money, I didn't want surgery anymore, although I still had a lot of emotional problems about it. Now, the idea of elective surgery makes me laugh, I barely have the patience to heal a cartilage piercing, I would hate dealing with the surgery and the healing process, and having the extra weight and bulk on my chest would drive me up the wall. It would just get in the way, all the time. bleagh. Nope, happy the way I am. And it is true, especially once you start hanging out with guys over the age of 25, their attitudes begin to mature quickly and their ideas of what a naked woman looks like aren't primarily gained from porn anymore. A lot of them realize how much nicer women look without the stretch-marked, round, bolt-on (haha love it!) porno boobs and plastic vulvas (don't even get me into the genital plastic surgery in the modern porn business ick ick ick!!) And a lot of them are just happy to actually get to sometimes hang out with women naked, of any shape or size smile.gif

I don't get bothered too much when people start talking about breasts, depending on the context. Or when they are in movies, because quite often my friends will all call out fake boobs in a movie as soon as we see them, it's a fun game. And I am finally at the point when I can appreciate when another woman looks beautiful, whatever her chest size, and it doesn't hurt my feelings if I know she looks more conventionally beautiful than me. I'm not in competition with her. It doesn't mean anything to me. I hope to age gracefully my whole life, and if I can't be accepting now of the eternal existence of younger, beautiful girls now, I won't be a very happy old lady. I'm beautiful in my own way and always will be, and I am a good person in my own way, and I can do so many things those kids don't even know about yet wink.gif

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