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angie_21
Just a link I found through my favorite feminist blog (evilslutopia.com):

Operation Beautiful

The thing I really like about it, is that even though it was made by someone who had weight-related issues in mind, it is not a "real women have curves" thing as a number of people have mentioned being annoyed with other campaigns - its about celebrating how everyone is beautiful, and about not focusing on our bodies at all. Yay!
karategrrl
QUOTE(angie_21 @ May 20 2011, 01:47 PM) *
At my wedding, people better not care if I want to prance down the aisle in a red bikini holding a bouquet of condoms,


Bwahahaha! laugh.gif laugh.gif

QUOTE(angie_21 @ May 20 2011, 01:47 PM) *
if I can't be accepting now of the eternal existence of younger, beautiful girls now, I won't be a very happy old lady. I'm beautiful in my own way and always will be, and I am a good person in my own way, and I can do so many things those kids don't even know about yet wink.gif

Well said, grrl.
karategrrl
Booblet sighting!! Yippee! Small boobies in a dance video! See the ladies in gold bikinis at 1:27 and elsewhere.
See 1:27
Allison-Shine
QUOTE(KeraBear @ May 14 2011, 03:19 PM) *
Yeah, I feel ya, Karategrrl. As much as I talk about about how jealous I am of my sister's Cs, the truth is I would rather be on the smaller side. It would just be nice to have just a little more... enough to drop the "let" from my booblets!

And yes, I would also be horrified to wake up and find a set of frankenboobs! That is just scary!


I am still jealous of my 18 year old sisters D's, i thought hers would stop growing once she got to 36C to my 32-34B, boy was I wrong. I would not want D's myself per se, I am simply uncomfortable with the "disparity" between us.

I am seven years older than her and been smaller than her since I was 21 and she was 14. Her breasts do not look out of place on her, hers are firm, proportionate and they may attract attention from others but not too much attention if you know what I mean.
DeeRayy
karategrrl, the last place i expected to see booblets was in a pitbull video! haha. i actually kinda consider j-lo to be kind of a small breasted icon. she may not look it, but i have a gay friend who idolizes and knows everything about her, and apparently she's somewhere between an A and a B cup. she's just made to look bigger in a lot of her appearances ( just of like a lot of other celebs, like eva longoria or jessica alba).

angie_21, i loved your post, because it's so very true. i always feel tons better after reading your posts because your hapiness and confidence just radiate through your words. and after i'm done reading i think to myself, "man, that's the attitude i need to have!". because the older i get the more i realize that i don't want to be perfect- i just want to be happy with myself.

i know i definitely need to work on appreciating the beauty of other women without getting down on my own appearance at the same time. i guess being so young has a lot to do with it. it makes me feel a little better when the more experienced women on this thread say that guys get better as they age. but i guess i just gotta be patient with waiting that out! it sucks though because i've always been told that i seem so much older than i really am. i can't help it, that's just the way i've always been ever since i was a kid. and that bites me in the butt when interacting with my peers because i get along soooo much better with older people. i actually get along more with my t.a's than my classmates sometimes! and when my therapist met me, she had to double check my age with me because she said that she doesn't hear a nineteen year old when she talks to me; she hears someone much more mature. haha, if only i had the confidence to match my maturity!
DeeRayy
now that i read that last post of mine i realize i sound kind of snobby in that last paragraph. it's NOT that i think i'm better than other people my age, i just don't feel that i connect with a lot of them as much. and believe me, i wish i could! i honestly think my older frame of mind can actually be a disadvantage sometimes.
angie_21
DeeRayy, I was definitely shocked when I found out you weren't around the same age as me! Partly because I often just assume people are near my age, especially over the internet when I can't see them haha. But you do very much seem to think things through. I think at some point us small busties discussed the possibility that being on the smaller side, and not fitting in to the standard ideas of beauty, forced us to be more thoughtful about how society works, especially in terms of treatment of women and standards of beauty, and therefore having small breasts helped to make us smart, strong women (in a very tongue-in-cheek kind of way, not that we actually think we're smarter than other people, of course!). I do remember often as a teenager feeling like I was on the outside of some kind of big-boobied club that all the other girls got to be a part of, a club that got all the boys' attention, and feeling like I grew up so much faster. I look back on those days, and look back on photos of myself, and I can't believe hot stunningly hot I was, and I remember how ugly I felt, and I just wish I had known all the things I know now! I could have had the world at my feet, if only I had the confidence back then!

Now that I'm older and more confident, I often feel and act a lot younger. I look back at how mature and thoughtful and well behaved I was when I was 20, and sometimes wonder if I haven't regressed in age... Sometimes I look back and wish I hadn't grown up so soon, not that it held me back, but that I didn't let myself have fun often enough... but I dont' let myself worry about it. I love every minute of my childish behaviour now, partly maybe because now I have the confidence and experience not to make a complete ass of myself, even though I'm indulging my childish side. Anyways, it's totally OK to get along better with older people, especially right now. The beauty of growing up is that soon, you will have a lot more power to choose who you associate with as friends, you won't be stuck with your classmates all day. I choose to surround myself with thoughtful, intelligent, fun and caring people when I am done work or school for the day, and they are of all different ages, and it makes life a lot more fun. The older you get, and the more people you meet over time, the more power you will have to do this.

One last thing.. one reason getting older seems to have helped, for me, is that at some point I had to realize, I couldn't keep wishing and hoping that my tits are growing any bigger. I'm not having any miracle growth spurt at 27, gaining weight doesn't do much, and in the meantime, I've discovered a lot of advantages to being small chested. So my only choices now are surgery, continued self-criticism, or accepting myself - the last one is the best option for me!
KeraBear
Yeah, a big boobied club that I don't feel like I ever get to be a part of! That is pretty spot on. I dunno... I guess I have always felt like it is sonething like a rite of passage into womanhood or something... having boobs (which is silly cuz i do, of course! Just not as... evident). Angie, you give me great hope that things will get better after high school. It is so hard for me!! The best thing about this place is "older" ladies like you, Strongirl, and Karategrrl who still frequent the thread even though you (seemingly) have it all together. So thanks so much!!!! Actually, you all have been awesome. Ha ha... I am afraid of leaving someone unappreciated. smile.gif

oh! And Allison- my fellow "older-little sister"! Welcome back! It's been awhile. smile.gif
DeeRayy
kera, i totally relate when you say that you feel like getting boobs feels like a rite of passage. AND you are also right when you point out that you do, they're just not as noticeable. i have always struggled with that- feeling like one of my parts is missing. but lately i've been making myself look at my own reflection while topless for a few minutes everyday. i don't remember who recommended it to me, but it has helped me become more comfortable with my body simply by getting me used to looking at it a lot. and the more i look at my reflection the more i've come to see that i do have them..they're just the most obvious things on the planet.

another thing that has helped me is that i'm starting to see my booblets as a reflection of my personality- they're cute and demure smile.gif

however, i get called cute so much because of my short/petite frame and my coy, kind of innocent personality that it actually bothers me! idk, but i feel like cute is kind of the opposite of sexy. i guess it's because when i think of cute i think of things like hello kitty, and i don't want guys to see hello kitty when they look at me! haha. it almost feels like the whole "cute" factor gets in the way of me feeling sexy, and i'd like to feel sexy at least once in a while!

does anyone else here have this same beef with being called cute often?
KeraBear
QUOTE(DeeRayy @ May 21 2011, 11:45 PM) *
kera, i totally relate when you say that you feel like getting boobs feels like a rite of passage. AND you are also right when you point out that you do, they're just not as noticeable. i have always struggled with that- feeling like one of my parts is missing. but lately i've been making myself look at my own reflection while topless for a few minutes everyday. i don't remember who recommended it to me, but it has helped me become more comfortable with my body simply by getting me used to looking at it a lot. and the more i look at my reflection the more i've come to see that i do have them..they're just the most obvious things on the planet.

another thing that has helped me is that i'm starting to see my booblets as a reflection of my personality- they're cute and demure smile.gif

however, i get called cute so much because of my short/petite frame and my coy, kind of innocent personality that it actually bothers me! idk, but i feel like cute is kind of the opposite of sexy. i guess it's because when i think of cute i think of things like hello kitty, and i don't want guys to see hello kitty when they look at me! haha. it almost feels like the whole "cute" factor gets in the way of me feeling sexy, and i'd like to feel sexy at least once in a while!

does anyone else here have this same beef with being called cute often?


Awww, so glad you feel me, Deerayy! But it's like an older, wiser friend once told me when i was having an existencial crisis in early high school - "Being a woman is more than just boobs and blood!" Oh yeah, the mirror thing. I am glad to hear that is helping you. I think it was Strongirl who mentioned that. Mirror therapy, I think. I think I remember there was a book about that too...

Interesting that you would look at your breasts as a reflection of your personality. I actually had to look up demure. Interesting choice of word. I am pretty shy myself. Do you ever wonder if our personalities might be different if we didn't have small breasts? Like, would I be more confident and outgoing? Would I be a different person even?

LMAO at the Hello Kitty comment! laugh.gif Ha ha. .. As somebody who gets "cute" alot, I can totally relate to this! I enjoy conpliments, but that is also one that is given to my 8 year old cousin. I am not sure if I would like "cute" applied to my boobs though... like they are miniature puppies or something, you know? But for the most part when a guy calls me cute, I take it as a compliment. But it does get old.
DeeRayy
QUOTE(KeraBear @ May 22 2011, 05:18 AM) *
Interesting that you would look at your breasts as a reflection of your personality. I actually had to look up demure. Interesting choice of word. I am pretty shy myself. Do you ever wonder if our personalities might be different if we didn't have small breasts? Like, would I be more confident and outgoing? Would I be a different person even?


kera, those are really interesting questions. and i don't think we'll ever be able to answer that haha. but i personally think if my boobs had been normal i would have found something else to be insecure about. as far as my personality, i really don't know what would have happened. what about you?

and i don't actually think my boobs are an actual representation of my personality(lol). i just kinda noticed that they seem to have a certain similarity to it. so it's just another way of me trying to accept them. that way, when i feel down about them i can go, "hey, at least they go with me!". it's more of a joke than a serious statement. it helps me lighten up about the whole issue instead of taking it too seriously smile.gif
KeraBear
QUOTE(DeeRayy @ May 22 2011, 01:15 PM) *
kera, those are really interesting questions. and i don't think we'll ever be able to answer that haha. but i personally think if my boobs had been normal i would have found something else to be insecure about. as far as my personality, i really don't know what would have happened. what about you?

and i don't actually think my boobs are an actual representation of my personality(lol). i just kinda noticed that they seem to have a certain similarity to it. so it's just another way of me trying to accept them. that way, when i feel down about them i can go, "hey, at least they go with me!". it's more of a joke than a serious statement. it helps me lighten up about the whole issue instead of taking it too seriously smile.gif


Yeah, you are right. Guess we will never really know how we might be different. I think I may have had a little more self confidence. I spent so much of junior high school and early high school feeling extra self concious because it seemed like all the girls were getting boobs except for lil ol me. I took a lot of teasing because of it. Then I look at my sister and she seems way more confident and outgoing than I am. And she is way more popular (especially with the boyz). I cannot tell if it is the confidence, the boobs or both. But you are right, if it isn't our boobies it will be something else I am sure.

I also use humor as a way of dealing. For instance, I sometimes say "at least I can go jog braless and not have to worry about getting a black eye!" smile.gif
strongirl
I LOVE Hello Kitty! Don't be dissing that adorable icon in here! I would be flattered if anyone compared me to Hello Kitty and I don't think being cute like Hello Kitty means that you cannot also be quite sexy. If you search online for Hello Kitty jammies you will find - in addition to the kiddie versions - some very sexy adult female pajama sets that I've been trying to justify spending $40-$60 on. Hello Kitty can be HOT! biggrin.gif

Yes, I recommended the mirror work and the books I've mentioned are by Susie Orbach, whose work is primarily about body issues around fat but applies to any body issues. It's powerful stuff. I've been having to do some more lately because my thyroid problems have caused me to put a few pounds. In my mind, I sometimes see myself as a fat pig right now. Then I do the mirror work and I'm surprised that I really am still my athletic, trim self, with less than 5 extra pounds on. Never underestimate the power of being in touch with reality.

DeeRayy - your boobs ARE "normal", honey! Perfectly normal.
DeeRayy


kera, well you've definitely got the humor part nailed! ahaha, that jogging line killed me! i actually wasn't teased all the time but the teasing i did endure hurt a lot because it came from people who (at the time) were so close to me. my alleged "best friend" during sophomore and junior year in high school used to always point out how small they were. i can remember one particular occasion where one of our friends as complaining about how she wished her boobs were bigger and my "bestie" said right in front of everyone "at least you're not like *DeeRayy*! look at hers!". it was soooo embarrassing. and my closest cousin also made jokes about how our younger cousin was passing me up already at the age of eleven. and of course everyone here knows the story about my first boyfriend, which probably hurt most of all. and it confused me so much because these people were supposed to care about me! i already talked to my cousin about it and he apologized and didn't realize how much of a sensitive issue it is for me. and the other two are cut from my life for good.

that's another thing i've been meaning to mention to you kera! i can relate to how you feel now because both my twelve and fourteen year old cousin are now c-cups. it definitely sucks because i see the twelve year old all the time. i almost feel embarrassed to be in the same room with her. but she never teases me about, thank god!
KeraBear
QUOTE(DeeRayy @ May 22 2011, 07:21 PM) *
kera, well you've definitely got the humor part nailed! ahaha, that jogging line killed me! i actually wasn't teased all the time but the teasing i did endure hurt a lot because it came from people who (at the time) were so close to me. my alleged "best friend" during sophomore and junior year in high school used to always point out how small they were. i can remember one particular occasion where one of our friends as complaining about how she wished her boobs were bigger and my "bestie" said right in front of everyone "at least you're not like *DeeRayy*! look at hers!". it was soooo embarrassing. and my closest cousin also made jokes about how our younger cousin was passing me up already at the age of eleven. and of course everyone here knows the story about my first boyfriend, which probably hurt most of all. and it confused me so much because these people were supposed to care about me! i already talked to my cousin about it and he apologized and didn't realize how much of a sensitive issue it is for me. and the other two are cut from my life for good.

that's another thing i've been meaning to mention to you kera! i can relate to how you feel now because both my twelve and fourteen year old cousin are now c-cups. it definitely sucks because i see the twelve year old all the time. i almost feel embarrassed to be in the same room with her. but she never teases me about, thank god!


Awww DeeRayy, I am sorry you had to go through that. You must be glad to be out of high school now huh? I am looking forward to at least a *little* more maturity when I start college in the fall. I also got similar comments (look on the bright side. You could be like Kera! Haw haw!), but never from my bestie! Wow.... also why is it that most of the time it is from other GIRLS? (Something else we've discussed at length here before). But the meanest thing anyone has ever said to me came from a boy. This is a rerun for most gals here (and i agree, Karategrrl, he was an asshat) but i am going to tell it anyways, since we are sharing stories. One day I caught this boy so obviously looking down my shirt. I called him out. " What are you doing?" He replied, "Looking for signs of puberty." And this was in front of everyone.

Glad you feel me on being outboobed by younger members of the family. Feels like a cosmic joke, doesn't it, getting surpassed by junior highers? I am glad your cuz is cool about it though.

Oops! Sorry ladies, we are not doing a good job of keeping the positive vibe by sharing all these horror stories, huh? You see what happens when the teens get free reign over the board for most of the day??? Ha ha tongue.gif
KeraBear
Oh and Strongirl - way to restore the honor of Hello Kitty! LMAO laugh.gif
karategrrl
You ladies are totally cracking me up today.


>So my only choices now are surgery, continued self-criticism, or accepting myself - the last one is the best option for me!

I second that emotion.
You know, I was just thinking this, this morning--that often, the "no other options" times of life are those when we are forced to grow the most. Yes, the growing pains can fucking SUCK out loud, but it's growth nonetheless, whcih I think is the short version of why we're here on Earth living our lives in the first place.


>i honestly think my older frame of mind can actually be a disadvantage sometimes.
>another thing that has helped me is that i'm starting to see my booblets as a reflection of my personality- they're cute and demure

I second those, too!


>The best thing about this place is "older" ladies like you, Strongirl, and Karategrrl who still frequent the thread even though you (seemingly) have it all together.

<karategrrl blushes> Dang, I fooled you all laugh.gif !


>You see what happens when the teens get free reign over the board for most of the day??? Ha ha

laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif You can do it anytime!! We will not ground you, nor take away iPod priveleges.


Random thought: I love how we've coined the term "outboobed" on this board.
strongirl
>The best thing about this place is "older" ladies like you, Strongirl, and Karategrrl who still frequent the thread even though you (seemingly) have it all together.

Thanks for the reminder, Karategrrl, I meant to respond to that, too. I don't have it all together, believe me! (though I suspect that Karategrrl and Angie actually do!) Mental health, just like physical health, is a dynamic thing - it ebbs and flows and changes over time. But also like physical health, there are specific things that promote it, and if you keep doing them, your mental health benefits. Over time, I've learned a few good tricks to keep my mental health in tune. And I'm happy to share them in here for a couple of reasons: 1) You don't really learn something till you teach it. Posting here has helped me as much as it's helped anyone else. When I share something that's helped me, it makes it easier for me to remember that good advice myself, next time I'm in need of it. 2) I was lucky to have some incredible female role models when I was young who helped me feel beautiful and confident and in passing that on, I am both paying it forward and paying it back at the same time.

So that's why I POST in here. But I READ in here because you all are just an incredibly intelligent, insightful, articulate group of people and I look forward to reading what you're going to say next! I've been blown away so many times by the amazing insights and perspectives here. I come here for my "smart" fix. Plus you make me laugh. smile.gif

KeraBear
QUOTE
You don't really learn something till you teach it.


QUOTE
often, the "no other options" times of life are those when we are forced to grow the most. Yes, the growing pains can fucking SUCK out loud, but it's growth nonetheless, whcih I think is the short version of why we're here on Earth living our lives in the first place.


Speaking of amazing insights and perspectives! This is good stuff...

QUOTE(DeeRayy @ May 22 2011, 07:21 PM) *
that's another thing i've been meaning to mention to you kera! i can relate to how you feel now because both my twelve and fourteen year old cousin are now c-cups. it definitely sucks because i see the twelve year old all the time. i almost feel embarrassed to be in the same room with her. but she never teases me about, thank god!


I just had a thought. The reason why your 12-year-old cuz never teases you is because she is afraid that YOU will tease HER. I mean, think about it - she's 12 for crissakes. If anything, she is probably envious of you and longs to be in the small boobie club that most of her friends are probably in.

Inspector KeraBear has sollllved the mystery! Elementary my dear DeeRayy, Elementary!!!

QUOTE(angie_21 @ May 20 2011, 09:47 AM) *
I can do so many things those kids don't even know about yet wink.gif


Teach me, Angi-Wan Kenobi!


angie_21
QUOTE(strongirl @ May 23 2011, 10:39 AM) *
>The best thing about this place is "older" ladies like you, Strongirl, and Karategrrl who still frequent the thread even though you (seemingly) have it all together.

Thanks for the reminder, Karategrrl, I meant to respond to that, too. I don't have it all together, believe me! (though I suspect that Karategrrl and Angie actually do!)


Bwahaha! Of all the good jokes on the board today, this one made me laugh the most! smile.gif No definitely not, most days my life is inside out and upside down in many different directions at once... but I wouldn't have it any other way. I'm not a fan of routine and security. I think that's part of why my body issues don't really have a chance to surface, I'm usually to busy to think about it. I've actually spent the last 3 month in counselling, for unrelated personal and relationship issues. There's the part of me that I express here, the part that is confident, intelligent, sexy, and really genuinely happy with myself and my decisions in life... but there are a lot of things about myself and my life that don't match up, and I am slowly learning how to bring it all together. Learning and changing and growing up never stops smile.gif

I do have to admit to spending at least 10 minutes in front of a full length mirror, every day, trying on clothes, checking myself out, making sure I stand up straight, etc. I have since I was 18 or so. Maybe that's helped? I've never thought about it. I just like being familiar and comfortable with my body.

It is so interesting to hear you guys talk about what you are going through right now. I don't often think much about high school anymore, and I forget how tough it was. I hated it at the time. I used to be teased for being skinny, but you know so much of it is other kids trying to overcompensate for their own insecurities (how many of them wish they were thin like you, and are already dieting and excercising to look more like you?) Don't let their personal issues ruin your day. I know it's easy for me to say this now, and words really do hurt (a lot sometimes) but what they have to say really does mean nothing to you. Especially when it's mean - kids only say mean things to make themselves feel better, they don't care what you look like and whether the things they say are true, they only care that it makes them feel better or prettier than you for a few seconds. It's actually really sad that they are going through the early years of their life relating to other people like that.

Good god I sound like my mother. I know I never believed a word she said either, but hopefully I somehow made it sound better, because now that I'm not stuck in the middle of it, I realize how true it is. ha.
angie_21
QUOTE(KeraBear @ May 23 2011, 04:36 PM) *
Teach me, Angi-Wan Kenobi!


Hahaha that's a dangerous request! What do you want to know? wink.gif
DeeRayy
QUOTE(KeraBear @ May 23 2011, 03:36 PM) *
Teach me, Angi-Wan Kenobi!


lmao at the star wars reference. i was tempted to ask angie this myself but i have a feeling she knows waaay more than can be explained in one post!
KeraBear
QUOTE(angie_21 @ May 23 2011, 07:56 PM) *
Hahaha that's a dangerous request! What do you want to know? wink.gif


Weellllllll.... let's just say that I was thinking .... umm... naughty things when you said that. I'm not as innocent as most people think! wink.gif

Oh geeeeez Angie, Karategrrl, and Strongirl! Way to ruin my image of yall will ya?!? On one hand I'm like, "ohhh nooo!! My heroines are flawed! Will I EVER reach a place where I am cool with my body???" But on the other, it is good to know that you are ... *GASP!* human! smile.gif

Angie - thanks for going back to high school for me. Me thinks you are spot on with your thoughts about the mean girls... a good number probably hate that I am so very petite (including me sometimes) and the best way they can think of to bring me down is to attack my breasts - or lackthereof. It makes alot of sense. Everybody has their own insecurities for sure... it is sad. For sure.
DeeRayy
QUOTE(KeraBear @ May 23 2011, 06:50 PM) *
Oh geeeeez Angie, Karategrrl, and Strongirl! Way to ruin my image of yall will ya?!? On one hand I'm like, "ohhh nooo!! My heroines are flawed! Will I EVER reach a place where I am cool with my body???" But on the other, it is good to know that you are ... *GASP!* human! smile.gif


haha, that's what i was thinking too kera. but realistically i don't think any woman is 100% ok with her body all the time. i have yet to meet any girl without at least one thing that bothers her about her body. heck, i have yet to meet a GUY who doesn't wish something about his body was different. if there's anything i've learned so far as a psych major that i've been able to apply to my own life, it's that your mindset makes a waaaaay bigger difference in your level of happiness than your actual situation.

i actually felt pretty grateful after watching this episode of oprah with my mom last week. it's pretty lengthy and the audio is off, but it's very moving. i felt like such a baby after watching it for getting so upset over something like breast size when some people have it sooooo much worse and still manage to cope with it.
karategrrl
You don't really learn something till you teach it. Posting here has helped me as much as it's helped anyone else.
But I READ in here because you all are just an incredibly intelligent, insightful, articulate group of people and I look forward to reading what you're going to say next! I've been blown away so many times by the amazing insights and perspectives here. I come here for my "smart" fix.


Me too, me too!! Its about more than just boobies! And totally right on about the teaching bit!

I must say I've been really flattered to be in a position here where I'm like a freaking "elder." Yeah, I feel a little old but it's actually a nice feeling, to share insights learned from shit I had to endure, and know someone else might actually benefit. and no, I don't have it all together all the time, but I have to admit I feel LOADS better than when I first found this place. Most of all, it's just knowing I'm SO not alone in all the things I often feel about the breast/body image/feminist issues. Lately I've been looking in the mirror and saying, wow, my boobs look good! Or squeezing them and thinking, wow, they feel great!" but what's funny is, I truly don't think they're much different in size than they've been for like the last 25 years. It's my brain that changed, not my boobs. (And I don't know why, but I don't feel really comfortable with the word "breasts" unless it's a clinical/medical usage. Dunno why--too serious?? I'm OK talking about my "boobs, booblets, boobies, titties, etc." but not "breasts." Pondering this...hmmm...)

>Inspector KeraBear has sollllved the mystery! Elementary my dear DeeRayy, Elementary!!!
>Teach me, Angi-Wan Kenobi!

Bwahahahaha! OMG, you so totally cracked me up this morning!

>a good number probably hate that I am so very petite (including me sometimes) and the best way they can think of to bring me down is to attack my breasts - or lackthereof.So true! Honey, if it wasnt your breasts, theyd find something else they supposedly have that you dont
strongirl
"I just had a thought. The reason why your 12-year-old cuz never teases you is because she is afraid that YOU will tease HER."

Kera, that is a BRILLIANT insight. It's so helpful to try to see things from other people's perspectives.

"Yeah, I feel a little old but it's actually a nice feeling,"

Reading your post, Karategrrl, I realized that I'm working something else out in here, which is my own transition from youth to maturity. As I look forward to my 50th birthday this year, I'm wrestling with how to "age gracefully". I read things saying women over 40 shouldn't ever wear bikinis, over 50 no more shorts or low-cut tops, over 35 no miniskirts. Half my wardrobe is skimpy fun stuff! So I'm looking at things I'm supposed to give up or that will be taken from me - and I realize that part of what this place gives me is a way to embrace the transition, to encourage and empower younger women to be themselves and enjoy their beauty and sexuality, to joyfully pass the torch.

Not that I've given it up yet, girls, I just think this is the beginning of my process of embracing a new role. As far as today goes, I think I'll wear a miniskirt and a low-cut top. wink.gif
KeraBear
Strongirl - Well, i think that you are already well on your way to "aging gracefully" so don't worry about that! I am way less afraid of aging because you have shown that a gal CAN be fun and sexy at 50. wink.gif But whatever you do though, don't you DARE put your twins in retirement!! smile.gif

"Lately I've been looking in the mirror and saying, wow, my boobs look good! Or squeezing them and thinking, wow, they feel great!" but what's funny is, I truly don't think they're much different in size than they've been for like the last 25 years. It's my brain that changed, not my boobs."

Karatee girl, this post inspired me to do some mirror therapy of my own tonight after I stepped out of the shower, because... well, most of the time I just ignore them. I even gave them a little squeeze, too, ha ha You know what? They really aren't THAT bad i guess.

"(And I don't know why, but I don't feel really comfortable with the word "breasts" unless it's a clinical/medical usage. Dunno why--too serious?? I'm OK talking about my "boobs, booblets, boobies, titties, etc." but not "breasts." Pondering this...hmmm...)"

Hey... yea! The cones!.... the pink-eyed cyclops!... jugs!... knockers! Hmm... okay, those last two might not apply to us so much (PINT, maybe?) If you wanna get real scientific though i guess the term would be "mammary glands" ("oooh... look at the glands on her!" Just don't sound good) . My word of choice has always been "boobs" though, so i am with you on that. That and "booblets" ha ha A similarly less endowed friend of mine at school called hers "breasticles" smile.gif
DeeRayy
hey guys!

sorry for shifting the mood with the not so light hearted post coming up, i know kera had me rolling with laughter at her last one [breasticles! ahaha]. but this has been bugging me lately.

i keep forgetting to bring this up but i was wondering if you guys wanna do a little dream interpretation with me. i had a really weird dream about my boobs recently, but i'm more interested in the connection it has with the dream that preceded it....

i had this the night after my last session with my therapist [who has gotten better btw, she's still not the best but she's working with me]. anyway, i first had a dream that i ran into my ex boyfriend and the girl that he left me for. it was at some sort of social gathering, i don't remember exactly what it was for. but anyway, as soon as i saw them walk in i panicked but tried to act aloof. but when she walked in i immediately saw that everyone was just like, in awe of her for some reason and everyone crowded around her to get a chance to talk to her, and she was charming the pants off everyone. and i remember feeling so completely insignificant and like i just couldn't measure up to her. the dream ended with me leaving in tears. what's weird about that dream is that i had only met the other girl a handful of times and she was never very talkative around me so i didn't know her too well. and i really don't remember what she even looked like very well either. i just have a very vague memory of her. but in my dream she was the epitome of perfection. and i seem to have recurring dreams(although i would call them nightmares) about running into him and her together, mainly when i'm stressed out.

and then i transitioned into another dream where i woke up to get ready for school and for some reason none of my bras fit. they were just too big all of a sudden! i was so confused and kept checking the labels and trying different ones but none of them were small enough, and i became very frustrated.

that's it for the second dream, but what do you guys think? i feel like this shows that i just feel inadequate all around. and my boobs are a pretty easy target to project all my feelings of inadequacy onto. and of course, it shows that i'm still hurting from being left for someone else by my first serious boyfriend, but that one's pretty obvious and i knew that before i even had the dream.

what do you guys have to say about that whole issue as well? i don't miss my ex and i'm pretty content with being single right now, but my self esteem is still pretty bruised from the whole ordeal. a lot of the time i feel like i'm just going to end up losing out to another girl again if i get into another relationship. and i know i shouldn't do that to myself, but these are hard feelings to deal with. and it's pretty frustrating because a lot of the time i say to myself "god, it's been almost a year! shouldn't i be recovered by now??".
angie_21
QUOTE(strongirl @ May 24 2011, 07:12 AM) *
Not that I've given it up yet, girls, I just think this is the beginning of my process of embracing a new role. As far as today goes, I think I'll wear a miniskirt and a low-cut top. wink.gif

strongirl, I love you! I totally look up to you here as well, as a role model for continuing to go through my life without compromise. But I also look up to the young "kids" here too. There's a lot of cool people here and a lot of interesting ideas. Back when I started posting here, I was just starting to become comfortable with my own body and I still remembered very strongly how much it hurt sometimes to be so affected by my body, and I thought it would be worth it if I could help even one girl out there feel better about herself. But you guys have helped me too, by making me no longer feel alone in having those insecurities. I'm not mad at myself anymore, and I don't judge myself as shallow for caring about it, I understand why it affected me so much, and at the same time, understanding all these things makes me better able to not care anymore.

DeeRay, it sounds like you've pretty well figured out a lot of your own questions in your post. That's rough stuff. What I can say is that getting over something doesn't mean it stops being a part of your past, or that you will forget it ever happened. Your brain is trying to learn from the past, and you are worried about making sure the past doesn't repeat itself, and that's a all good, but remember, you didn't lose that guy to another girl, he lost you. And don't blame it on yourself - just because a relationship didn't work out doesn't mean the people were in it were bad, it just means they weren't right for eachother. Not every guy out there is going to be like your ex. You are young, you have so much time, and this is your chance to get out there and have fun - don't let fear stop you from taking the opportunity of being young and single and in control of your own life!! Please, I know, I wasted my youthful years in a series of one-sided and unfulfilling serious relationships, and totally regret it.

KeraBear, I have to say a lot of what I've learned over my relatively brief years is how to figure out what I want. I spent a lot of my early 20s trying to please the boys I was dating, and didn't even know how much I was missing out on for myself (and what they were missing out on as well, because of it!). Becoming more comfortable with myself, and my body, means that I am a lot less inhibited, and it adds a bit more oomph and means a lot less awkwardness. And being willing to ask for what I want (or demand it wink.gif ) always gets a good response! This is one part of my life I really do hope I never stop learning smile.gif
karategrrl
Strongirl, as for aging gracefully, I struggle with that a bit too. Junior clothes fit me better than womens clothes, so sometimes as Im shopping the Juniors department I have to pull back a bit. wink.gif

As far as the rules about who shouldnt wear what at what age, I think there are no rules whatsoever except for how something looks on you, and how it makes you feel when you wear it. If you FEEL funny in a too-short skirt (dont feel it flatters you, you feel too inappropriate for where youre wearing it, etc.) then dont wear it. But dont so it just b/c of someone elses judgment that you passed your expiration date. wink.gif

Im totally inspired by Tina Turner, rocking it onstage in black leather minis well into her 60s, and this 62-year-old woman I saw who was featured in a bathing suit editorial of a fairly recent Oprah or More magazine (you know, what suit looks best on real people body type xyz, yada yada). Well, this woman was obviously no spring chicken but was in impressive shape. I say, rock it if you got it!
Personally, in recent years I find that skirts of a certain short length just arent flattering on me anymore, so I tend to avoid them unless I pair them with opaque tights in the winter, that sort of thing. I think older women can still dress fun, playful, sexy and yes, a little skimpy if they have the bod and they pull it off with a touch of taste and class. (Do you know of More magazine? They have great fashion pages with women over 40 and 50 rocking short skirts, long hair, etc.) I think weve all seen the women with the saggy boobs down to their crotch, fake spray-on tans, makeup plastered onto weathered skin, wearing 4-inch heels and teen jeans decorated with glitter in the supermarket. No, we dont want to be that. But we can still be awesome until the day we drop into the grave, I say.

Amusing story: Years ago (I was probably 32-ish) I was scoping out cute bikinis in the dept. store. Two women walked by, both looking pretty fit. One suggested to the other a bikini near the one I was looking at. Her friends response? I am 26 years old! I have no business wearing that!" Wha????? I guess 26 was old to her. So Strongirl, I guess its all relative.


Kera, yippee for mirror therapy!

the pink-eyed cyclops!


Bwahahaha!

A similarly less endowed friend of mine at school called hers "breasticles"

OMG, so do I!! Or "chesticles!"


DeeRayy, we work a lot of stuff out in our dreamseven if its just our brains playing out scenarios we dont while were conscious. And theres no time limit on when you should be all over it. Be patient and gentle with yourself. <<hugs>> You might keep a dream diary, too, if you don't, as reading back over them a few weeks from now may give you some insight. I had wacked dreams after my last big breakup
and in retrospect it was all illustrating my frustrations from the relationship.
strongirl
Gosh, I love you guys! What a bunch of amazing, wonderful, and extremely sweet women! smile.gif

Thanks so much for all the support and insights in response to my "aging" post. I feel so supported and appreciated, it's gonna be impossible to feel sorry for myself today even though I have a heinous day queued up at work!

Angie, I love you too! ((())) And: "This is one part of my life I really do hope I never stop learning". You definitely can keep learning all your life when it comes to sex, bodies, relationships - it's an endless joy as far as I am concerned. It takes intention and effort but the rewards make it so worthwhile. I have no doubt you'll have a great lifelong ride in this area. wink.gif

Kera: "But whatever you do though, don't you DARE put your twins in retirement!!" ROFL! OK, I won't!

Karategrrl, I loved your analysis on clothes. That is VERY much my process - I don't worry about whether I'm "too old" really - I want a great fit, comfort and freedom of movement, and a bit of "attitude" in what I wear. I'll shop the Goodwill, the boys department at Kohl's, Hot Topic, Nordstrom's - I don't care. You're exactly right, it's all about what you feel good wearing. Great bikini story, by the way. smile.gif

DeeRayy, try this on. What if your dreams have to do with the issue of competition between women, with the idea that life is one big beauty contest or popularity contest, and your fears of inadequacy and losing? You say you "couldn't measure up" to her, then in the second dream you don't "measure up" to your own bra's. This to me seems like you're trying to make yourself consciously aware of your own fears of inadequacy in order to examine them with detachment and begin to overcome them. (I love dreams, they can be so helpful.) Here is something you may find useful in trying to challenge your beliefs/fears - I came across it yesterday in the Wiki on "swimsuits". (I just inherited a 1920's swimsuit from my grandma, so I was researching.) But I was struck by this passage by one of the judges in one of the first Miss America contests in 1922:

"They were all unclear as to how to judge the contest. One judge suggested that they judge each part or feature of the body out of ten, then the woman with the total highest score would win. After they had tried the system, they discovered that although one woman might have beautiful individual parts for features, she might not be beautiful over all. So they "...gave up trying to figure out a system and resolved to trust our eyes. It led to squabbles, because all of us didn't see things in the same way, but it was the best we could do."

In other words, a bunch of men couldn't agree on which woman was most beautiful - "it led to squabbles". Think about it.






DeeRayy
thank you for the responses, all. i just needed to vent a little.

karategrrl, i just might start with the whole dream diary business. i think just a diary in general would help. although this place is pretty darn close to a diary for me! haha.

strongirl. i really liked your story about the miss america judges. i totally agree that beauty is extremely subjective. the thing is, my insecurities aren't just about beauty. i think they're also about my personality, and whether i'm too shy, too quiet, not witty enough, not fun enough, etc.

btw, strongirl and karategrrl, i really admire your views on aging as well. honestly , it seems like you guys are more comfortable with dressing skimpy than I am! I'm a teenager and i don't even own a miniskirt, or any low cut tops. i feel uncomfortable in a pair of shorts! so i salute you guys in admiration smile.gif


QUOTE(angie_21 @ May 24 2011, 10:11 PM) *
KeraBear, I have to say a lot of what I've learned over my relatively brief years is how to figure out what I want. I spent a lot of my early 20s trying to please the boys I was dating, and didn't even know how much I was missing out on for myself (and what they were missing out on as well, because of it!). Becoming more comfortable with myself, and my body, means that I am a lot less inhibited, and it adds a bit more oomph and means a lot less awkwardness. And being willing to ask for what I want (or demand it wink.gif ) always gets a good response! This is one part of my life I really do hope I never stop learning smile.gif


even though this was directed at kera i really related to and agreed with it. i learned in my first relationship that i definitely need to work on addressing my own needs instead of my partner's. i spent so much time and effort trying to be who i thought he wanted me to be and i didn't show him who i actually was. and that never does any good. thank you for the response as well angie. i try and repeat the whole "it's his loss, not mine" motto but it's pretty hard to really hardwire that into my brain. but i will try to enjoy being young and single for right now smile.gif
karategrrl
QUOTE(DeeRayy @ May 25 2011, 03:15 PM) *
thank you for the responses, all. i just needed to vent a little.

This is the place!!!
QUOTE(DeeRayy @ May 25 2011, 03:15 PM) *
karategrrl, i just might start with the whole dream diary business.

I think strongirls' insights are really good. Might I add that I think a lot of what we dream is just the mind kind of playing with things, unraveling things, and is very interesting. Personally, I had many dreams where something dangerous was happening (sky literally falling, killing people; my furnace on fire, etc. and my now ex poo-pooing my concerns as I tried to save him and the others). Once I realized the ongoing theme, I realized it summed up a lot of what was going on in our relationship and I hadn't been resolve with him in reality, so I did it in my dreams. Really interesting stuff, actually.

QUOTE(DeeRayy @ May 25 2011, 03:15 PM) *
btw, strongirl and karategrrl, i really admire your views on aging as well. honestly , it seems like you guys are more comfortable with dressing skimpy than I am! I'm a teenager and i don't even own a miniskirt, or any low cut tops.

That's not so weird! I feel more comfy now than I EVER did as a teen. I was actually thinking recently of how, especially as a younger teen, I'd never wear shorts or anything remotely skimpy on top. Most of it was that I just wasn't at all comfy in my own skin and terribly self-conscious. Part of it was to try and avoid the leers and comments of horny old fuckwads who seem to visually prey more on teens than they even do on grown women. I vividly remember sweating my fucking balls off outside in the sun one hot day at lunchtime in 6th grade...I was ashamed of my little booblets so couldn't bring myself to wear an actual bra of any kind, yet for modesty against "show-though," I was wearing a tank top under my t-shirt--two layers!! Blagh!! Back then they didn't have sports bras--just those horrid "training bras" that I could never bring myself to wear. God, I hate that fucking term to this day!! "Training!!??" What the fuck was I supposed to be "training" for? But forgive me, I digress. <ahem.>

My point is, the confidence has come with life experience, and maybe yours will as well. And I must say that though I still get comments, they're not usually as graphic, crude and disgusting as the ones I used to get. There are some sick, no-balls motherfuckers out there for sure, who like the "easy prey" of the young'uns. Just try that shit now and see how I whomp their asses with my 42 years' worth of intolerance. wink.gif It gets funner, DeeRayy!
Allison-Shine
QUOTE(DeeRayy @ May 22 2011, 07:21 PM) *
kera, well you've definitely got the humor part nailed! ahaha, that jogging line killed me! i actually wasn't teased all the time but the teasing i did endure hurt a lot because it came from people who (at the time) were so close to me. my alleged "best friend" during sophomore and junior year in high school used to always point out how small they were. i can remember one particular occasion where one of our friends as complaining about how she wished her boobs were bigger and my "bestie" said right in front of everyone "at least you're not like *DeeRayy*! look at hers!". it was soooo embarrassing. and my closest cousin also made jokes about how our younger cousin was passing me up already at the age of eleven. and of course everyone here knows the story about my first boyfriend, which probably hurt most of all. and it confused me so much because these people were supposed to care about me! i already talked to my cousin about it and he apologized and didn't realize how much of a sensitive issue it is for me. and the other two are cut from my life for good.

that's another thing i've been meaning to mention to you kera! i can relate to how you feel now because both my twelve and fourteen year old cousin are now c-cups. it definitely sucks because i see the twelve year old all the time. i almost feel embarrassed to be in the same room with her. but she never teases me about, thank god!


It used to be that I would see girls 14-16 passing me up, now I am noticing more that girls 11-13 are as well. My freind and I went to visit a freind of hers who has a daughter who was 11 at the time. It was like "Allie, meet Brianna" and this girl is eye to eye with me. Im not terribly short at 5'3" but Brianna was an inch taller and I could tell that she was slightly more curvier than me. And yes I was also a little uneasy about in being in the same room with her. All my freind and Brianna's mom talked about for 20 minutes is how much she was growing.

All of that was two years ago, I have only seen Brianna once since then and I asked my freind how big she was now. My freind responded casually"oh like 5'6" now and a C cup" like it was normal or something.

I don't know how long this has historically been going on with pre-teens and early-teen girls with C cups, curves and height but it can't be as epidemic as it is now. I don't recall being at that age too many instances of seeing girls my age then being bigger than adult women. Someone who is older can probably give me a history lesson here. It's weird being in your mid-20s and seeing those around half your age taller and bustier than you. And bikini season is coming unsure.gif lol.
DeeRayy
QUOTE(karategrrl @ May 25 2011, 09:56 AM) *
Part of it was to try and avoid the leers and comments of horny old fuckwads who seem to visually prey more on teens than they even do on grown women. I vividly remember sweating my fucking balls off outside in the sun one hot day at lunchtime in 6th grade...I was ashamed of my little booblets so couldn't bring myself to wear an actual bra of any kind, yet for modesty against "show-though," I was wearing a tank top under my t-shirt--two layers!! Blagh!! Back then they didn't have sports bras--just those horrid "training bras" that I could never bring myself to wear. God, I hate that fucking term to this day!! "Training!!??" What the fuck was I supposed to be "training" for? But forgive me, I digress. <ahem.>

My point is, the confidence has come with life experience, and maybe yours will as well. And I must say that though I still get comments, they're not usually as graphic, crude and disgusting as the ones I used to get. There are some sick, no-balls motherfuckers out there for sure, who like the "easy prey" of the young'uns. Just try that shit now and see how I whomp their asses with my 42 years' worth of intolerance. wink.gif It gets funner, DeeRayy!


ahaha! the training bra comment killed me. I also find that name stupid. the only thing those contraptions trained me to do was obsess over the size of my boobs even more!

i've also noticed that old perves tend to harass the younger crowd. it seems that they'll ogle anything under the age of eighteen with legs. They probably know better than to mess with older women. and judging from your words they'd sure learn their lesson if they tried to say something to you! haha, way to go karategrrl smile.gif

i do my best to cover up in public, mainly because i'm self conscious. but a definite perk of that is avoiding those kind of gross comments for the most part. but it's getting rather hot in my area, and i'm not sure how much longer i can last wearing jeans and loose shirts! i tried to put on shorts this morning, but i kept looking down at my bare legs while eating breakfast and i just knew that i was gonna feel extremely uncomfortable the whole day if i were to go to school in them so i just slipped on some jeans instead.


QUOTE(Allison-Shine @ May 25 2011, 11:24 AM) *
I don't know how long this has historically been going on with pre-teens and early-teen girls with C cups, curves and height but it can't be as epidemic as it is now. I don't recall being at that age too many instances of seeing girls my age then being bigger than adult women. Someone who is older can probably give me a history lesson here. It's weird being in your mid-20s and seeing those around half your age taller and bustier than you. And bikini season is coming unsure.gif lol.


i feel you allison. when i told my doctor about how i felt i wasn't developing at a normal rate she just told me that a lot of the fast growth and development that we see today is a fairly recent trend and is by no means normal. she blames a lot of it on growing obesity rates and poor diets. this is just my opinion, but i think another contributor is all the hormones and crap that gets put into a lot of the food sold nowadays as well.
KeraBear
Back then they didn't have sports bras--just those horrid "training bras" that I could never bring myself to wear. God, I hate that fucking term to this day!! "Training!!??" What the fuck was I supposed to be "training" for? But forgive me, I digress.

I know! For realz!!! I don't know what I was training for... but whatever it was, my boobies were training for much too loooooooong!! sad.gif Why were you so resistant at first? At that age, that was allllll the rage! ha ha

but remember, you didn't lose that guy to another girl, he lost you.

What a beautiful statement ... and true! I know this because from my interactions with DeeRayy in this forum and over PM I know she is a beautiful person inside and out! Also, even though this wasn't directed at me, I really took it to heart. I am still not completely healed from my breakup with my ex not too long ago. He was my first (my first everything really ha ha). Before I got with him, i felt so invisible and always overlooked for the girls with curves. And after the breakup, i couldn't help but ask myself "wasn't i enough?!? What could i have done differently?" But this helps.

Thank you, Angi-Wan! (Sorry... your new nickname, whether you like it or not. smile.gif )
DeeRayy
QUOTE(KeraBear @ May 25 2011, 04:16 PM) *
I am still not completely healed from my breakup with my ex not too long ago. He was my first (my first everything really ha ha). Before I got with him, i felt so invisible and always overlooked for the girls with curves. And after the breakup, i couldn't help but ask myself "wasn't i enough?!? What could i have done differently?" But this helps.


you're not alone kera! my ex was my first kiss, first date, first everything too. i think that's what makes it so difficult to move on completely, because we haven't experienced being with anyone else. and i probably still ask myself those same questions sometimes. that line that angie wrote really hit me too. i couldn't help but read it over and over, trying to make it stick. thank you for the other part of your post too. it made me smile. hugs to you kera!
karategrrl
Hey DeeRayy, how do you feel about those long peasant-type skirts? Some of the new-agey ones are really fun and cute and would still offer some modesty while you -dont- melt to death. Even the knee-length, loose shorts you find in the sports storesthe ones more like the basketball players wearare good as well. Forgive the unsolicited fashion advice. I think Im being a mama hen in my old age. The thought of my poor bustie little sistahs uncomfy all day does not sit well with me. smile.gif

And I agree about the hormones in food as a contributing factor in the early puberty thing. You just didnt see this type of thing as often even as recently as 20 years ago.


KeraBear:
Does this mean our boobies are still training? If so, I could think of many fine things we can be training our adult booblets for: training to whip em out; to whap our lovers in the face with; to display proudly in boobie-happy topshmmm I like this.
KeraBear
Karategrrl - LOL! I like your brain. smile.gif. And think of all sorts of fun tricks we can train our booblets to do. Shake? How shall we reward them? Boobie snack? ZOINKS!
Allison-Shine
QUOTE(karategrrl @ May 26 2011, 01:20 PM) *
And I agree about the hormones in food as a contributing factor in the early puberty thing. You just didnt see this type of thing as often even as recently as 20 years ago.
KeraBear:
Does this mean our boobies are still “training?” If so, I could think of many fine things we can be training our adult booblets for: training to whip em out; to whap our lovers in the face with; to display proudly in boobie-happy topshmmm I like this.


It has to be more than just the hormones in food. Women like me and Kera have ate the same foods in the past decade when we were younger too. I think genetics or just simply human evolution are also factors.

I ummmm don't think your boobies need any "training" Karategrrl, I think you know what to do with them with the things you mentioned already wink.gif

I hate the word "training", especially when it applies to a training bra or training for a job. I always hated when i was new at a job and was considered "in training" like, for every aspect of the job I master, I get a treat? Do I have to sit up and beg? Do I have to roll over? Its just a silly word at times. Woof.

I like this too wink.gif
Allison-Shine
QUOTE(KeraBear @ May 26 2011, 02:39 PM) *
Karategrrl - LOL! I like your brain. smile.gif. And think of all sorts of fun tricks we can train our booblets to do. Shake? How shall we reward them? Boobie snack? ZOINKS!



Ohh my, easy Shaggy or my little Scrappy Doo:) If you come up with any tricks, do share ! biggrin.gif
DeeRayy
QUOTE(karategrrl @ May 26 2011, 10:20 AM) *
Does this mean our boobies are still “training?” If so, I could think of many fine things we can be training our adult booblets for: training to whip ‘em out; to whap our lovers in the face with; to display proudly in boobie-happy tops…hmmm… I like this.


This made me smile, especially about the part about whapping our lovers in the face with them. ahaha, way to give me such a powerful visual karategrrl!
laugh.gif

and about the long skirts. idk if i'd go for that considering i'm only 5'2" haha. but i'll figure something out. you need not worry mama hen smile.gif

QUOTE(Allison-Shine @ May 26 2011, 12:20 PM) *
It has to be more than just the hormones in food. Women like me and Kera have ate the same foods in the past decade when we were younger too. I think genetics or just simply human evolution are also factors.


hmmm, idk about it being evolution because it's such a sudden trend. human evolution takes such a vast amount of time to leave tangible effects. i could be wrong though. and i wouldn't like to think of myself as un-evolved just because i'm not as tall and busty as other women. i also wonder whether it's a trend that's specific in the united states or if it's a global trend. i wonder if there's any articles on this. *strokes chin*, hmmmm.....
KeraBear
QUOTE(Allison-Shine @ May 26 2011, 03:20 PM) *
It has to be more than just the hormones in food. Women like me and Kera have ate the same foods in the past decade when we were younger too. I think genetics or just simply human evolution are also factors.


Hmm... yeah, I was thinking this exact same thing. I was raised with the exact same diet as my "little" sister! Yeah, I am with DeeRayy in ruling out evolution, but genetics factor in for sure. My mom's side is sorta on the curvy side. My sister's were the beneficiaries of that. Buuuuuuuut there are women on my dad's side that are small petite types... those are my genes, i guess unsure.gif But I think there are other factors too... like physical activity. I run cross country and track which might explain why i was so late with the puberty stuff and my non-sporty sister was early. There is a reason why those gals you see on the US gymnastics team look so young!!
KeraBear
QUOTE(angie_21 @ May 25 2011, 01:11 AM) *
But I also look up to the young "kids" here too.


I missed this bit. Awwww thanks! *blushing*
strongirl
OMG, Kera, the thought of training my tata's by giving them Scooby snacks...I laughed so hard I hurt myself! Ruh-roh! Girl, you have a true gift for comedy.

On the (documented) phenomenon of breasts and people getting bigger - I'm pretty well convinced that this is NOT evolution or better nutrition but rather the huge increase in the amount of estrogen and estrogen-like compounds that people are exposed to. I remember in the 1980's reading an article in Ms. magazine about how Puerto Rico had legalized Bovine Growth Hormone some years back and now were seeing alarming rates of precocious puberty, obesity, and male breast development (gynecomastia). The Ms. article was trying to bring attention it because it was up for a vote in the US Congress to legalize it here. I remember thinking "They will surely legalize it and in another 10 years, we'll start seeing the same thing." Sure enough, in the '90s I started seeing articles about how it was happening here. The average age of menarche (starting periods) has dropped dramatically in the US. Not only is there estrogen in the meat supply, certain plastics release compounds that affect the body like estrogen. So we're being barraged. I suspect this is one reason why the younger folks in here feel more "abnormal" than those of us who grew up in earlier decades. "Normal" has changed.

I see it not just with girls but with guys. The guys my son goes to high school with don't look like guys did when I was in school. They look softer, they have a layer of fat over their muscles, they're not hard and lean like guys when I grew up. My son is not like that but he is a vegetarian and I've tried hard to limit his hormone/chemical exposure. Recently I overheard a girlfriend hug him and say "You don't feel like other guys, you're solid muscle!"

I also think this is part of why we've seen huge increases in the rates of breast cancer and other hormone-fed cancers.

Here's an interesting snippet but there's a lot of stuff out there:

http://www.takepart.com/news/2010/08/11/ho...to-grow-breasts



KeraBear
Interesting link, Strongirl.

"There were 4-year-old girls with fully developed breasts. There were 3-year-old girls with pubic hair and vaginal bleeding. There were 1-year-old girls who had not yet begun to walk but whose breasts were growing."

Okay... I'm not usually one who uses profanity much, buuuuuttt... that is FUCKED UP! Omigosh...
angie_21
While I am a huge fan of hormone-free, non GM food, I would definitely place a lot of the blame for problems in North America on high fructose, low-fat, highly processed, carb-bloated diets so common to north americans. A lot of research that seems solid to me, but is not as highly publicized as the other stuff, backs up the idea that a high-sugar diet messes with a number of systems in the body, including insulin and hormones. I think a lot of the bigger breasts correlates with overall bigger bodies. Look at pictures of women in the 1950s - much trimmer overall, including in the bustline. But yeah, diet and health overall is a huge problem.
DeeRayy
angie, i totally agree with you on that. i was raised on that same highly processed diet you just described, and i'm just now starting to shift to a health conscious diet now that i am older and know better. it's still frustrating when i look in the fridge and all there is is microwave food. i STILL butt heads with my mom over that. luckily there's an organic food store close to the apartment complex i'm moving into next year, plus a gym two blocks away so me and my roomie already make a pact to go regularly. yaay!

i feel like they should make kids take nutrition classes at the very least in this country. i grew up thinking that type of food was normal and acceptable to eat, and no one ever challenged that. it wasn't until i started reading up on nutrition myself that i realized how different my diet should be. and i feel so much better now that i don't eat that crap anymore! i don't think people in this country realize how much proper diet and exercise can improve your mood and well being. poor diets are so normal for people in north america now that i don't feel people question their eating habits nearly as much as they should.

i kinda wanna emphasize, however, that not all heavy women are busty and not all thin women are small busted. while that is the general trend, i have come across many women that are exceptions to this. there's always a reason for your bust size, but it is not always your diet. sometimes it's genetics, sometimes it's other factors. in my case i feel like it's this weird complicated mix of genetics(i failed to mention that my dad's side of the family is rather petite, like me) and medical reasons.

but, i spent some time with my younger busty cousin this weekend for her 13th birthday and i did some thinking. and i realized that there's no reason for me to feel uncomfortable or ashamed around her. i genuinely care about her, and she's a sweet gir.l so i would slap myself if i ever let the mere fact that she has larger breasts stop me from spending time with her. more importantly, why the heck should i resent my own cousin for something neither of us have any control over? i'm not in competition with her. life isn't a contest to see who can nab the biggest cup size. honestly, if i let myself constantly compare my body to the rest of the world i'd go insane! i'm just going to let her be her and let me be me. besides, how am i ever going to become the best version of myself if i'm too busy worrying about everyone else?
KeraBear
QUOTE(DeeRayy @ May 28 2011, 11:06 PM) *
but, i spent some time with my younger busty cousin this weekend for her 13th birthday and i did some thinking. and i realized that there's no reason for me to feel uncomfortable or ashamed around her. i genuinely care about her, and she's a sweet gir.l so i would slap myself if i ever let the mere fact that she has larger breasts stop me from spending time with her. more importantly, why the heck should i resent my own cousin for something neither of us have any control over? i'm not in competition with her. life isn't a contest to see who can nab the biggest cup size. honestly, if i let myself constantly compare my body to the rest of the world i'd go insane! i'm just going to let her be her and let me be me. besides, how am i ever going to become the best version of myself if i'm too busy worrying about everyone else?


Yay DeeRayy! This is a big step in the right direction. Yeah, it's not like your cuz was all like, "I'm gonna grow some Cs this year. That'll show DeeRayy!" (if only it were that easy right? lolz) You've gotta focus on being the best "you" you can be regardless of your cup size. What a great example you will be setting for your young cousin as she enters those difficult teen years. *KeraBear shudders as she remembers the year she turned 13...*

Recently over PM i gave Karategrrl permission to give an "electronic web bitchslap" everytime she finds me comparing myself unfavorably with my sister! It's terribly unhealthy. I am trying to be way more intentional about that...
DeeRayy
hey girls! i just read the most adorable blog posts i've ever seen and i just have to share it with you guys!

http://stophatingyourbody.tumblr.com/post/...t-me-tell-you-a

her post made my day! this is definitely going on my favorites list. her thumbs up pose is adorable and she seems so happy with her itty bitties. it'll probably make a lot of you smile too smile.gif

i explored the entire site and it's one of the best body image movements i've seen. no bias, no "real women have curves" type slogans. just random people from all around the world posting pictures of their bodies and talking honestly about their struggles. it's fabulous smile.gif
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