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karategrrl
QUOTE(Vendetta @ Jun 3 2008, 06:54 PM) *
So here we were, at lunch, arguing again for the same issue... and I tell him for the 100th time that I don't feel sexy around him anymore and I'm afraid I never will. So, he's right that he can't do nothing about it now and I shouldn't keep making his life miserable because of that but.. I'm just so sad. It's like something has been ripped off from me. I can't help to feel inadequate and obsess over his boob thing when we're intimate and that stops me from being sexual. What would you girls do? Do you think you could just forget and be yourselves again? I know I should and can't tell why I can't. How can I be able to just don't give a fuck about what he thinks and likes and have said and get myself out of this miserable state? Is it possible that we can be happy again? I get so sad when I think about his boob thing that all I can do is to cry... My female pride is painfully hurt.


(((vendetta))

Breasts don't start fights. People do. Of course you are having trouble feeling sexy! Who wouldn't, if the person they love expressed--many times--a preference or liking for something completely different. It's impossible to forget--once something is said, it's said, and there's no taking it back.

Sounds like you are beating yourself up for not being able to "get over" what he has heaped on you. Don't make yourself feel worse by doing that. It sounds like he was insensitive and-whether or not he meant it--he hurt you badly. In situations like this, I honestly don't know what's worse--to hurt someone intentionally or to be so clueless and insensitive as to do something that hurts someone unintentionally.

There's nothing wrong with you, grrl. If it makes you feel any better, my husband has had episodes of flirting that hurt me unbelievably deeply. What hurt me even more is his inability to acknowledge any wrongdoing or even acknowledge that that was what he was doing--he wouldn't even call it "flirting"--he called it "a way of interacting." That shit made me feel like absolute crap, eroded my trust in him and put us in therapy.

I do have a point here...this shit IS big stuff you are dealing with. Some may say they were "just words" or "get over it" or blah blah blah, but it runs deeper than that. Believe me, I know.

Sounds like he has damaged your trust and your self-esteem. As much as we might all like to believe our self-esteem is indestructible, I know mine has taken huge blows when hubby flirted (no matter what he called it). There's nothing wrong with you, honey--you're just human--and hurting. Given your situation, it sounds like you have every right to be upset. I wold be, too! (((HUGS)))
neurotic.nelly
((((Vendetta))))) - I wish I had some words for you. ~wishing you wellness, and power vibes~

My breasts are small and supple and sweet. There is just enough. When I go outside, my breasts do not get as much attention that my other curves get. I see where the eyes go and it isn't my chest *hehehe* I could not imagine the attention that a size C cup and my other curves would get. I do not want that much attention from pervy men. Never have, never will. *sending loving vibes to my breasts*

(((starship))) The only people who need to point out other's "flaws" are people dealing with their own insecurities. I would not take it personal, easier said than done for sure.

karategrrl - that another awesome thing about small breasts, we can make low cuts look classy as opposed to trashy. Big ups for small boobies.
knorl05
hello my fellow ><a cup busties. i've been slacking in this thread something heavy. my mind has been in a place that i didnt want my boobies to distract from.. sometimes i feel that thinking too much about my boobies, perpetuates my concern over them. resultingly, i am not up to date on the info/thoughts that have been expressed here, so i apologize for busting in without some sort of congruity to the ongoing convo.

however. i had a thought. i like the freedom my small breasts give me to explore gender roles. so many women complain that they are not taken seriously, and i wonder if the outward display of their breasts doesnt have something to do with that... that the image their boobies respresent to men, whether subconsciously or not, is one of gratification. not to say that our small breasts dont or cant serve the same function, however, ours are a bit more inconspicuous. so not only are we sexy to the men and women who find us physically attractive, but i think we are also allowed to be a bit more cerebral than our voluptuous counterparts. eh?

edit: did i express that effectively? i guess the point i was trying to make is that (especially in todays society) women are so highly sexualized, that to take a more androgynous approach, liberates one from falling into a particular category.. which kind of allows a woman to create herself in her own image - hmm?
neurotic.nelly
knorl, i think that you expressed yourself very effectively. i have to agree with you about the freedom to explore gender roles. when i was in high school, i was in tomboy mode, and that carried over into college, and my early twenties. i explored the landscape of androgyny. moreover than the intellectual component, i enjoyed the camaraderie with boys/men. we could become friends without the pretense of sexuality, or sexualization of body parts. some of my strongest bonds with boys/men were made out of this exploration of androgyny. i think that gender roles are almost a fundamental identification for humans, it is ingrained from early domestication of the human being. Gender. It's where it starts. Limitation, which lends to the ideas that gender are concrete. Having smaller breasts makes crossing or walking this line easier, and gosh, it is fun and full of contradiction.

there is a dance that develops between two or more interacting people, gender in particular provides the framework for which this dance takes place, coloring the way we interact, murky... it may not really be us responding, but a conditioned response based on purely outer appearance. i hope that makes sense... i rewrote it a few times.

"which kind of allows a woman to create herself in her own image - hmm?"
i say more like, "mmmmmmm...yeah."

knorl05, i adore your mind, and the questions that arise from it. your old avatar didn't scare me, in fact.
karategrrl
QUOTE(knorl05 @ Jun 4 2008, 07:53 PM) *
they allow me the rite to downplay my sexuality to such a degree that pure intellect is allowed to take its course. so many women complain that they are not taken seriously, and i wonder if the outward display of their breasts doesnt have something to do with that


Knorl, VERY well said. When I am feeling positive about my breasts, I feel somewhat liberated and yes, even empowered--empowered to be taken seriously. Which is not to say that large-breasted women can't be taken seriously or don't have any smarts, etc., because of course that is not true. But yes, I believe it can be a bit of a struggle for us ladies to be taken seriously sometimes, or for people to look past our femaleness or whatever. Having smaller breasts, I think, makes that easier.

Part of it may be that our outward appearance pretty much dictates that those (okay, men) who are more interested in substance will gravitate to us, and those more interested in "parts" will not. Of course, the downside is that large-breasted women often do have a hard time being taken seriously or people assuming they are dumb or sexpots just b/c they are large-breasted. As I type, of course, all of this makes me think of how stupid all these assumptions are that we make about people. And I admit, I can be just as guilty at making them! blink.gif

I, too, was very much the tomboy growing up. I actually wished I were born a boy, as I was SO not into girly-girl stuff. So you can imagine how traumatic it was for me when I got my period. What allowed me to fly under the radar at that time were my small breasts, as I didn't have big breasts on my chest shouting to the world, "I've reached puberty!!!" I remember there was another girl in my sixth-grade class who had also gotten her period. She was large-chested and constantly harassed by the boys, while my period reamined my little secret. wink.gif

On a side note, I went to a contact improvisation dance jam last night. It is at times like that I am grateful to be able to move so freely and unencumbered by any large, floppy body parts, i.e., breasts, and also, b/c contact improv can get touchy-feely, I can be reasonably sure the guys aren't staring at my chest or trying to cop a feel because, well, there's nothing much there to feel!
knorl05
neurotic nelly: soo, i dont take compliments very well, but thank you. i equally appreciate your mind and perspective! and that last post, wow, excellent observations. with this, "moreover than the intellectual component, i enjoyed the camaraderie with boys/men." ... thats an opportunity that i think not too many women even allow themselves to explore given the specific and defined terms of what it means to be a girl. i think unfortunately some women miss out the chance to bond with guys because they arent willing to step too far out of the female box (no pun intended). i have noticed that a lot of young women who dont have much life experience, would rather be considered pretty than "real" (real, in the sense of being down to earth). not saying girly girls -or females who try to be- cant be real too... i'm just saying, when one's priority is to be [this], they usually arent as concerned with being [that]. dotdotdot. but, back to the the original topic of androgyny.. i believe this approach allows a woman to deconstruct and explore her own sexuality and limitations on terms which she is comfortable. i think that in the process of self discovery and liberation, experiences colored with ambiguity are almost entirely a necessity.

karategrrl: so so true. i think we forget sometimes the benefits of having smaller breasts, when we're looking at them by aesthetic value alone. i love that i'm able to go running, or dance all night, without the pain that larger breasts can cause. on the small vs large tip and who is taken more seriously, etc... i'd have to say that i think sometimes women with larger breasts >>whose values and priorities lie in finding a mate and being taken care of<< dont feel they need to try as hard. i think that, typically speaking, women with this outlook feel all they have to do is flash their boobies and they'll get whatever they want in life. some dont even care if they're taken seriously or considered intelligent. it's unfortunate that they'd deny themselves like that, but it is a choice, and i am guilty of making assumptions about them as well. not that i harshly judge anyone or put forth any sort of oppressive energy... but i can usually tell based on how a person carries her/himself, or presents her/himself, whether or not they'd be interested to engage in any sort of substantial exchange of ideas. but i digress.. and if i am wrong in that thought process, wonderful, i connected with someone new.
karategrrl
QUOTE(knorl05 @ Jun 6 2008, 09:46 AM) *
on the small vs large tip and who is taken more seriously, etc... i'd have to say that i think sometimes women with larger breasts >>whose values and priorities lie in finding a mate and being taken care of<< dont feel they need to try as hard. i think that, typically speaking, women with this outlook feel all they have to do is flash their boobies and they'll get whatever they want in life. some dont even care if they're taken seriously or considered intelligent.


That is a good point. Thre are women who use their breasts--or, should I say, others' obession with breasts--to get what they want. I read an account once of a woman talking about how, as early as her teen years, she realized that she could render boys speechless/paralyzed/mouth hanging open simply by lifting her shirt and showing her ample breasts. It is this capitalizing on men's love of breasts and female bodies that is, I believe, the reason why porn and strip clubs and the like remain a multibillion-dollar business. Many women capitalize on their bodies to make a sure, quick buck. I guess the mindset is, "I've got it, why not use it to get things if men will actually pay for it?" (payment in money/attention/gifts, etc.). This shortcut, however, is harmful in the long run--the flip side is not being taken seriously and perpetuating the "women as objects," "show me your boobs, I'll show you the bucks" cycle that I think all women end up paying for, at least indirectly.

I suppose many women don't care if they are taken seriously or not, if all they want is material things. However, I've been to strip clubs (no other way to see for myself what it was all about) and watched enough documentaries on stripping where in one part, the women are all proud and boasting of all the money they make, attention they get and how great it makes them feel, etc. But in quieter moments, the anger bubbles up and they are faced with the fact that they are taking off their clothes and showing their sacred parts to strangers, suppressing their intelligence, feelings, soul and all the things that make them unique human beings, and just presenting themselves as tits and ass on display. Add to that the act that most men will pay to see this but say they would never date or marry someone like that.

I once saw a photo someone had taken of a woman standing on a street in New Orleans (no offense to DJbiz-monkey!), about to lift her shirt. In a semicircle around her were a bunch of men whooping, hollering and egging her on, some with cameras poised. It was "the moment before the MOMENT," so to speak. The (male) photographer commented that he liked this photo because it showed the "power" she had over these men. I remember thinking, POWER? What kind of power is that? Once she lifted her shirt and got her beads, they'd all be off to the next woman. Strikes me as a very superficial and fleeting version of "power."

Sorry, I didn't mean to get on such a tangent. And I know many may not disagree with stripping or shirt-lifting or whatever. (And, I admit, in particualr situations, like with my husband or very close friends, or with my sis-in-law to prove a point that my breasts were smaller, I've flashed mine.) I'm not a prude. I like erotica and tasteful celebrations of the body as a beautiful and sensual art form, but I feel there is a fine line between that and objectification. And flashing one's boobies for "power" of some sort or other is really a surrender of true power.
Vendetta
Well, not every "breasted woman" flashes her boobs and thinks she can have anything because of them. Some of them are just normal people, like us, but with boobs. And they still have that "power" that we don't. I'm not saying we don't have power, we certainly have other "powers", but on intimacy they do have that one.
karategrrl
QUOTE(Vendetta @ Jun 6 2008, 02:25 PM) *
Well, not every "breasted woman" flashes her boobs and thinks she can have anything because of them.


That isn't what I said.
Vendetta
I know lol I'm not making that assumption
knorl05
karategrrl: not prudish at all, educated and aware is more like it. yes celebration of the human form, the female form in particular, is one thing.. and exploiting it is quite another. you are right, small breasted, large breasted, doesnt really matter so much.... but there is a profound difference in the way men (and women) respond to larger breasts as opposed to an average size bust. an example to this: the other night i met a friend at the bar. he was sitting with some people i had not met, one of them being a woman with a shirt down to there and a push up bra that made her tatas the first thing you notice about her. the way the men reacted to her was in a flirty and jocular manner; the bartender brought attention to himself to say, "hey hey, i asked her if she likes milk" or something equally juvenile, followed by a round of chuckles. i mean. geez. i had to stop myself from rolling my eyes something hard, just so i wouldnt look bitter. but the whole situation was annoying. it's like, great she's got big boobs, get over it.
in the past i've had guys suggest to me that i get my tits done, with the only argument being to get more attention. but what type of attention would that be? is it really something i need in my life? would larger breasts create experiences in which men (people) respect me for my mind? in the end, we really have to determine what is important to us. again, large breasts, small breasts, it doesnt matter.. what matters is how we treat ourselves, and the dynamic we are looking to create between ourselves and those around us.

vendetta: neither karategrrl nor myself said that every "breasted woman" flashes her boobs and thinks she can have anything because of them. what we are saying is that some women use their bodies to avoid responsibility, which does nothing valuable for them in the long run.
neurotic.nelly
"And flashing one's boobies for "power" of some sort or other is really a surrender of true power."
This rings true for me, karategrrl. wink.gif

Generally, what the larger male dominated media/society tells us about our sexual powers as women is inverted. It is not true. There is usually more than one truth, or the actual truth is the exact opposite. So, as a beautiful woman, hour glass figure, "a knockout", show us your beautiful body/breasts - and you'll have us drooling, you'll have us in the palm of your hand... all power is yours. It is not true, the power is fleeting, and men's interests are fickle and fleeting. All things change with time. Big breasts do not ensure a happy relationship or their duration.

The real power is in the mind. Sexiness starts there, too! Once you possess, this you can never lose it, this may not be *true*, but I just like the way it sounds wink.gif . This is what I was telling Vendetta, which she probably knows, but I will say it again anyway, confidence is attractive and sexy.

I like being feminine but I do not like lording it over men, it feels oppressive, and if it is what the larger male dominated media/society is telling me to do, then it probably is a form of oppression.

Someone mentioned this earlier (i think), I have noticed that the larger breasts support group discussion is dominated by bra talk and such. More physical than psychological. I've noticed this too.

I hardly ever worry about bras. I do not care for bras, I can keep a bra forever. No problem finding bras over here!, I'm in and out of the store in no time, shopping for bras - ha! This is my joy as a small breasted woman!

One last thing, I *enjoy* talking about breasts and deconstructing them and our societies fascination with them.
Vendetta
I've always been strongly confident and my sexiness came from that. And right now I'm still confident when I'm not being intimate. But take me off my padded bra and I'm left with nothing. That is sad.
neurotic.nelly
Oh yeah, I have to say breasts of all shapes and sizes are beautiful to me.

It is not the size of our breasts that we should be worried about, but rather, we should be very concerned about the thing that says this breast is better than that. What ever you want to label it, that is what I am concerned with. DJ Monkey was really awesome and cerebral in her deconstruction of it. This is my beef. I love my breasts, they make me feel free, and light. I hate the thing that says that Vendetta should feel like less of a woman because of her sleek breast tissue.

My favorite part of the female form is not the breasts though, it is the curve of the back.

knorl05
neurotic nelly: i will have to concur with your sentiments about dj biz. she's one smart cookie! always fascinating to read her posts as well. smile.gif and my favorite area of the female form is the shoulders/décolleté.. especially with very pronounced collar bones. how about everyone else?
karategrrl
Hey ladies,

I'm glad my comments were understood. Sometimes I think maybe I'm being too analytical or sensitive, but since many of you agree, I guess I'm not. biggrin.gif

QUOTE(knorl05 @ Jun 6 2008, 06:14 PM) *
but there is a profound difference in the way men (and women) respond to larger breasts as opposed to an average size bust. an example to this: the other night i met a friend at the bar. he was sitting with some people i had not met, one of them being a woman with a shirt down to there and a push up bra that made her tatas the first thing you notice about her. the way the men reacted to her was in a flirty and jocular manner; the bartender brought attention to himself to say, "hey hey, i asked her if she likes milk" or something equally juvenile, followed by a round of chuckles. i mean. geez. i had to stop myself from rolling my eyes something hard, just so i wouldnt look bitter. but the whole situation was annoying. it's like, great she's got big boobs, get over it.


Oh Goddess, I SO understand!!!! I have been accused of being jealous in situations like that, when I didn't hold back the eye rolls myself. One could probably have been able to tell she had large knockers even if she were wearing a shirt with more coverage, so why go overboard and bring even more attention to it? It reminds me of men who are all into the bodybuilding scene and will wear (undersize, to makes them look like they are busting out) tank tops in the freaking winter. It, to me, only makes one appear desperate for recognition/attention. If a guy has nice muscles, you can still tell in a button-down shirt. Add to that the added allure of a man who doesn't look like he needs to flaunt it. Also leaves something to the imagination, no? wink.gif

Yep, she's got big boobs, get over it. Move on. What I constantly find amusing (in a way that does annoy me, though) is how men will say nudity or big breasts or whatever are "no big deal," yet they respond like that. (Warning: me possibly being overanalytical: Is it conditioning? Do guys just say shit like that b/c they're in groups and it's "expected?" Or do they figure they should give the woman what they want--attention/a reaction?)


QUOTE(knorl05 @ Jun 6 2008, 06:14 PM) *
in the past i've had guys suggest to me that i get my tits done, with the only argument being to get more attention. but what type of attention would that be? is it really something i need in my life? would larger breasts create experiences in which men (people) respect me for my mind? in the end, we really have to determine what is important to us. again, large breasts, small breasts, it doesnt matter.. what matters is how we treat ourselves, and the dynamic we are looking to create between ourselves and those around us.


Wow, you hit it right on. I had some asshat at the gym where I used to work tell me that too, and it was a totally "from left field" kind of comment--like, it barely related to what we had been talking about. Gee, thanks for telling me, an almost-stranger what I should do with my body...and for what purpose, exactly?? Duh. I mean, if I had larger breasts, I still wouldn't see myself "using" them or showing them off for anyone but my hubby.

"I like being feminine but I do not like lording it over men, it feels oppressive, and if it is what the larger male dominated media/society is telling me to do, then it probably is a form of oppression."

Very well said!


Okay...what I find attractive about women...

Must I narrow it down to one thing? smile.gif I think most everyone has something beautiful about them. I dunno, but as you night have guessed, I find women most attractive when they have a depth to them. I'd definitely be more attracted to the woman who's a bit more physically modest but great personality, intelligent, etc. vs. one who has her tits pushed up and hanging out in public. <yawn.>
Vendetta
I commented with the boy that I had less than half men looking at me when I went braless. Answer: Of course, men like staring at things like that. Ain't I dating an idiot or what?
pherber
Sorry for jumping in.
I have 36DD (probably more, because all my bras are too tight, but I can't afford even bigger ones)
A debate in the "big" thread got my curiosity, now...

I'd like to assure you, that I have no "power" because of my big boobs, this probably only applies to women in showbiz, and has nothing to do with reality.
My reality is, whenever I have a crush on a guy, he seems to prefer more modestly shaped girls. Yes, the irony...
I also work in a male dominated field, where my technichal knowledge is appreciated, having big boobs is no problem, but also of ZERO advantage!

...and I'd like to add something I've also posted in the big boob thread:
Actually the irony is, if you have very big boobs, you also get insensitive comments. I.e "How much did they cost?"
Another popular insult is the assumption, they must be saggy, by people, who haven't even seen me naked.

In our stupid porno culture, and obsession with breast implants, people don't always realize, that for women, who have naturally big boobs, this was not a choice we made, and we have to learn to accept our bodies just the same way women with small boobs have to.

PS:
By the way, I'm one of those who shamelessly flaunts her boobs in low cut tops. Why the hell should I hide them in turtle neck jumpers? They look horrible on me!
A woman with lovely legs might wear a mini skirt. I can't! I don't care, that my legs are too heavy for short skirts, but I have an ugly varicose vein.
See, I'm not about body fascism, but a general aesthetic, that women of the most different shapes can look nice in clothes that suit them.
If this is considered desperate attention seeking, you might as well get the burkas out.
starship
QUOTE(pherber @ Jun 9 2008, 10:15 PM) *
If this is considered desperate attention seeking, you might as well get the burkas out.


ahah. Id probably flaunt them too. Everyone tries to wear clothes that show them to their best, right:/

There should just be one big merged 'Boobs' thread
strongirl
This back and forth between the small and big boobs threads is pretty fascinating and touches on something I've mentioned before in here, which is the importance of tolerance and support for other women, rather than making assumptions and criticizing.

Why shouldn't a girl with big tits enjoy flaunting them? I enjoy flaunting my cute little ones! And I don't see "wanting attention" as being a character flaw or impure motive. While it is totally legit to prefer modesty as a personal aesthetic, I personally am very visual and love to see other people's bodies and share my own. I don't think that makes me a worse or better person than one who prefers a more demure presentation.

We should all learn to love and appreciate our own bodies, and wherever we can help others to do likewise, by appreciating their beauty and appeal even if it differs from ours, let's do that too!


honeybunch
QUOTE(starship @ Jun 2 2008, 06:40 PM) *
why do people thinnk its ok to just point out that im flat chested and remark on my body.grrr.I need to become more resilliant to insensitive comments or im never going to get over this boob issue

i found myself cringing slightly when my bf touched me the other day.total mood killer

not sure why because he always tries to reassure me. He called me a trophy gf..i said i was more like the booby prize, without the booby...he said i was the booty prize and thats good enough for him:)

I know large breasts have problems too but ive noticed that the large breast forum tends to deal more with practicalities whereas our problems revolve around the psychological, not physical, difficulties

((Vendetta))

IA. I've never known a big breasted girl who disliked the breasts themselves although they may have disliked having back problems or difficulty finding the right size bra.
neurotic.nelly
pherber,Tthank you! for your post. I think we needed it here, everything you wrote is so right on! Thank you for the reality check!!!

As far as showing off our assets whatever they maybe as women, you say,
"If this is considered desperate attention seeking, you might as well get the burkas out." I think that women are controlled/oppressed in two ways, one way is to suppress, oppress, and control the feminine body completely i.e. burkas and the other is to completely expose, objectify, and make a commodity of the female form.

I think it is important to point out that some women who rock burka's wear them because it makes them feel proud and beautiful. And I agree!

I so appreciate what you said here pherpher,
"See, I'm not about body fascism, but a general aesthetic, that women of the most different shapes can look nice in clothes that suit them."
That's awesome! wink.gif
hellotampon
"See, I'm not about body fascism, but a general aesthetic, that women of the most different shapes can look nice in clothes that suit them."

The clothes that happen to suit me personally are low-cut. As I said in the large thread before, I actually think I look more proportional that way. You see cleavage, but my chest itself doesn't look all huge and slopey. I'm sure a lot of people see that as in invitation to stare or think that's I'm showing them off, but what the hell, they're going to stare anyway, if they're rude. And I have nothing else to show off. I pretty much hate the rest of my body.

"IA. I've never known a big breasted girl who disliked the breasts themselves although they may have disliked having back problems or difficulty finding the right size bra."
Well, back problems suck tongue.gif And so does not being able to do most exercises, and the staring and the snide comments from complete strangers and men who think they are entitled to undress you with their eyes or act in other aggressive ways just because you have large breasts thru no fault of your own... I'm shy and sensitive and I dislike any male attention if it's not from my boyfriend. It makes me intensely uncomfortable, but I still don't want to go around looking like total crap all the time either.

I just re-read my post and I hope it doesn't sound argumentative. I just wanted to chime in from the other side of things. I was a late bloomer and always assumed I would take after my very small-breasted grandmother. For most of high school I just wore padded bras and as soon as I accepted my small comfy boobs for what they were, they grew.
Vendetta
You don't like being pointed out because you have boobs and we don't like being pointed out because we don't have them. The grass is always greener.

And we shouldn't go that wrong way of making assumptions about other women. You're welcome in here.
karategrrl
"You don't like being pointed out because you have boobs and we don't like being pointed out because we don't have them. The grass is always greener."

Ha, good point!!!!

"I'm shy and sensitive and I dislike any male attention if it's not from my boyfriend. It makes me intensely uncomfortable, but I still don't want to go around looking like total crap all the time either."

I feel ya, girl. I don't mind attention if it's tasteful--a smile, a hello, a look IN THE EYE. But, as probably most of us do, I hate the leering, whistling, inappropriate comments about how I should have surgery, etc.

"By the way, I'm one of those who shamelessly flaunts her boobs in low cut tops. Why the hell should I hide them in turtle neck jumpers? They look horrible on me! A woman with lovely legs might wear a mini skirt. I can't! I don't care, that my legs are too heavy for short skirts, but I have an ugly varicose vein."

I wasn't saying anyone should cover up completely--turtlenecks and burkas and such...I said, "a shirt with more coverage" than what the other person who posted described. Yes, we should all wear stuff that is flattering, makes us look and feel good, and that highlights our best features. I am one of those with awesome legs. I could wear skirts up to my buttcheek crease but I prefer to be a little more modest with anyone besides my husband because the shorter the skirt, the less tasteful the attention is that I seem to get, and I prefer to not be treated like an object. That's just me.

I love the discussions going on here, and especially all the new and old friends chiming in, but ladies, I feel like I spend an awful lot of time re-stating what I meant and correcting people who misinterpret my posts. Makes me not want to post. Or at least not as much.
karategrrl
"You don't like being pointed out because you have boobs and we don't like being pointed out because we don't have them. The grass is always greener."

Ha, good point!!!!

"I'm shy and sensitive and I dislike any male attention if it's not from my boyfriend. It makes me intensely uncomfortable, but I still don't want to go around looking like total crap all the time either."

I feel ya, girl. I don't mind attention if it's tasteful--a smile, a hello, a look IN THE EYE. But, as probably most of us do, I hate the leering, whistling, inappropriate comments about how I should have surgery, etc.

"By the way, I'm one of those who shamelessly flaunts her boobs in low cut tops. Why the hell should I hide them in turtle neck jumpers? They look horrible on me! A woman with lovely legs might wear a mini skirt. I can't! I don't care, that my legs are too heavy for short skirts, but I have an ugly varicose vein."

I wasn't saying anyone should cover up completely--turtlenecks and burkas and such...I said, "a shirt with more coverage" than what the other person who posted described. Yes, we should all wear stuff that is flattering, makes us look and feel good, and that highlights our best features. I am one of those with awesome legs. I could wear skirts up to my buttcheek crease but I prefer to be a little more modest with anyone besides my husband because the shorter the skirt, the less tasteful the attention is that I seem to get, and I prefer to not be treated like an object, which is the way I feel with that kind of attention. That's just me. Also, I work in a corporate environment, so I surely can't do that during the week.

I love the discussions going on here, and especially all the new and old friends chiming in, but ladies, I feel like I spend an awful lot of time re-stating what I meant and correcting people who misinterpret my posts. Makes me not want to post. Or at least not as much.
dj-bizmonkey
wow, alot of action in here! i am going to read, but i am a slow reader.......i have been buried under a mountain of work, tons of time in front of the computer, no time for BUST!
pherber
Thanks NN! That was very kind. smile.gif

I wasn't so much offended at anything that's been said here, btw, I just thought, that there were maybe some misunderstandings.
Glad noone took offence.



QUOTE(karategrrl @ Jun 10 2008, 12:34 PM) *
I wasn't saying anyone should cover up completely--turtlenecks and burkas and such...I said, "a shirt with more coverage" than what the other person who posted described. Yes, we should all wear stuff that is flattering, makes us look and feel good, and that highlights our best features. I am one of those with awesome legs. I could wear skirts up to my buttcheek crease but I prefer to be a little more modest with anyone besides my husband because the shorter the skirt, the less tasteful the attention is that I seem to get, and I prefer to not be treated like an object. That's just me.

I totally dig your point.
Of course HOW far I go depends on the situation, i.e. date or work, and how extroverted I feel.
The difference between legs and boobs is, just like HT said, you can't hide big boobs, they're always obvious no matter how modest I dress.
So on days where I feel introverted it really sucks.

The thing that you were discussing might actually be more of a CoF subject:
That huge difference between cool rock'n roll bad taste and just plain bad taste, or glamour vs. 'Lil Kim, or Marilyn vs. Porno star so-and-so...
In other words, the trashy aspect might not come from the cleavage, or how low it is, but from the general styling.
knorl05
i'm gonna have to agree with karategrrl on this one........"I love the discussions going on here, and especially all the new and old friends chiming in, but ladies, I feel like I spend an awful lot of time re-stating what I meant and correcting people who misinterpret my posts." i mean seriously. i know for myself, i do not intend to hurt or disrespect anyone... so i think we should try to check our emotional response before we post. just because some one doesnt agree with what i have to say doesnt mean i should censor myself, especially considering my character is not one that is insensitive or thoughtless, as with most other busties.

and good point pherber... regarding lowbrow rock culture vs clueless bad taste. i guess my thing has always been...time and place. most people will agree that being loud and outspoken about (the war, abortion, animal rights, great music, etc) isnt exactly appropriate in say a buddhist temple. i have no problem with women who do what they do, when they do, with whomever they do it.... i am just annoyed by the general public and the hypocritical morality that seems to ooze from the mind of the masses. specifically women and men whose only angle is that of which they see in the media or learn within the dynamic of their sheltered lives. again, IRL i am beyond tolerant, but when discussing my ideas with others who understand and share my views, i'm a bit more inclined to express my discernment.
dj-bizmonkey
wow. i don't even really know where to begin. i feel like the words have been taken out of my mouth by some and twisted by others.

pherber, thanks for posting and the reality check. you obviously have a very well-balanced perspective and i certainly appreciate hearing it.

suffice to say, to all the regulars in this thread, i'm sorry i wasn't paying attention as this back and forth was happening. i'm hurt, more than anything, that we were all painted with a glib and insulting brush.

people are going to read into posts how they see fit. i see this happening on bust all of the time. one post, one comment, becomes a federal case and spins out of control. it's really a shame. i for one am sorry for ever participating in a situation like that. i am also sorry if anything i ever wrote was misunderstood or was hurtful to other busties for whatever reason. i refuse to censor myself, but i can certainly learn to express myself in a more sensitive and thoughtful manner.

can we move on? i think we have all acknowledged where we were insensitive, bigoted or just plain mean. we are human beings, bound to say and do ugly things. if we can't vent here, in a semi-anonymous online forum, then where CAN we vent?

ANYWAY

here is an uplifting story. i was in the gym locker room the other day and there was a huge swarm of young girls who had just gotten out of the pool. i literally had to wade through them to get to my locker after my shower. i was changing, and trying to modest in front of the little girls, but they were all around me. this cute little mixed girl who was right at my feet looked up at me and said, 'your boobies are pretty!' i was slightly mortified, but blushing was out of embarassment and joy. just thought i'd share.


((((busties)))) thanks for all the love and encouragement!
anna k
QUOTE
this cute little mixed girl who was right at my feet looked up at me and said, 'your boobies are pretty!' i was slightly mortified, but blushing was out of embarassment and joy. just thought i'd share.


That's so cute. That's much better from when I was about 11 and an obnoxious little girl teased me for having bigger breasts than her.
strongirl
I hope no one interpreted my comments as urging self-censorship. I love the open dialogue of this forum and think that is a big part of the benefit - you can say what you think and get equally honest feedback in return. Part of what I get out of this is a way to fine-tune and develop my own thoughts - by viewing my own opinions through the lens of other people's perspectives.

I am reminded of the words of a wonderful therapist I went to years ago. He encouraged me to express myself "freely and fully...with harm to none". It can be a tricky dance but I do think it's an important thing to factor into not just our comments but our own inner thoughts and ideas. I want to be kind, tolerant, and generous to others...and to my own self! And I want to question my own assumptions and not get locked in and calcified in rigid ways of thinking.

So deep appreciation and thanks to everyone who posts in all the Bust forums! You are an amazing, intelligent, and fascinating bunch of women!
strongirl
Back to boob talk - did any of you see the June issue of Playboy? There are some awesome small-titted hotties in there. Two pages of pics of the new French first lady, Carla Bruni, former supermodel and now successful singer (her music is waaay cool too). She's gorgeous, probably an A or AA cup, and has an impressive resume of ex-lovers from Mick Jagger to Eric Clapton.

And a spread on the dancers in Crazy Horse, a French review that is now playing in Vegas. Hot little titties, from AA to maybe a B cup, but none that could keep the pencil off the floor.

If Playboy can celebrate small tits, surely we can love and enjoy the ones on our own bodies?

pherber
QUOTE(strongirl @ Jun 12 2008, 11:21 PM) *
Back to boob talk - did any of you see the June issue of Playboy? There are some awesome small-titted hotties in there. Two pages of pics of the new French first lady, Carla Bruni, former supermodel and now successful singer (her music is waaay cool too). She's gorgeous, probably an A or AA cup, and has an impressive resume of ex-lovers from Mick Jagger to Eric Clapton.

And a spread on the dancers in Crazy Horse, a French review that is now playing in Vegas. Hot little titties, from AA to maybe a B cup, but none that could keep the pencil off the floor.

If Playboy can celebrate small tits, surely we can love and enjoy the ones on our own bodies?

blink.gif

Oh, I can see how reading playboy works wonders for developing a feminist attitude.

Seriously, I don't know a single guy, who has the audacity to describe women in such a disrespectful and chauvinistic way, and if one did so in my presence, I'd bitchslap him into oblivion.

...and this, AFTER we've taken it outside and agreed, that freedom of speech should maybe include a minimum of respect for other women.


PS:
Oh, and seriously- Carla fucking Bruni????
The one who chased a much older married man, because in her own words, she "wants a man with nuclear power"?
The one who compared her fate of being of public interest to the "denounced jews" in the second world war?
pfffff
oceangirl
I haven't been following this thread for quite a while but I was wondering if anyone can help me out.

I lost a lot of weight and none of my bras fit me (I was up to a full A and now I am down to well less than an A).

The only thing that I have found that I like is a seamless "bra" (more like a microfiber crop top) made by Bestform (comes in small, medium, and large). I used to buy them at Walmart but they don't sell them anymore. All they sell are "petite" bras (aka bras that don't fit at all, are massively uncomfortable and padded).

SOOO my question is anyone know where I can order the microfiber Bestform crop tops? It is not like a bra in the sense that there is no clasp. It is not the sexiest thing by far but it is comfortable and for a girl who doesn't really "need" a bra it works for me (if you know what I mean).

I will re-pay you all by designing a line of lingerie (comfortable AND sexy) one day - I swear. I'm not kidding.

Until that day I am looking to find some place to order seamless microfiber bestform bras online. any help is appreciated.

thank you!
oceangirl
Oh the other thing I was going to say is I am totally fine with having small breasts. I used to feel insecure about it and less female because of my small breasts but I am totally over that now except I cannot find any bras!

There is nothing wrong with small breasts. The only problem is no one wants to make nice bras for 'em!
honeybunch
QUOTE(strongirl @ Jun 12 2008, 06:21 PM) *
Back to boob talk - did any of you see the June issue of Playboy? There are some awesome small-titted hotties in there. Two pages of pics of the new French first lady, Carla Bruni, former supermodel and now successful singer (her music is waaay cool too). She's gorgeous, probably an A or AA cup, and has an impressive resume of ex-lovers from Mick Jagger to Eric Clapton.

And a spread on the dancers in Crazy Horse, a French review that is now playing in Vegas. Hot little titties, from AA to maybe a B cup, but none that could keep the pencil off the floor.

If Playboy can celebrate small tits, surely we can love and enjoy the ones on our own bodies?

It didn't look too bad, but it's not something I would go to at least not with my bf. I have to remind him just to pay attention to mine. rolleyes.gif
crinoline
uhmmm, Pherber... I think that perhaps you misunderstood the pencil comment. You see, in this thread there has long been a discussion of the legendary "pencil test" and those who "fail" it. I think that strongirl was excited to see images of small "failed" breasts in the media, no matter how offensive that particular media is.
I don't really understand how that particular statement was offensive or disrespectful, she merely pointed out that these sexy women could not keep a pencil up with their breasts, just like we who use this thread have observed about ourselves.

It can be painful to possess a body type ("flat-chested" if you will) that does not exist in mainstream imagery of sexy women. This is a space where we celebrate the small (perceived) victories that make us feel "normal" and "sexy".

I agree wholeheartedly with the sentiment that we (ALL women) should celebrate and enjoy what breasts we have on our real live bodies. We are beautiful.

oceangirl- there are all kinds of cute lacy "bralette"s available, I know there are some at urbanoutfitters.com, and elsewhere as well.
pherber
Oops, sorry about that! sad.gif

I understand what she means now.
Thing is the pencil test is usually used as a very ugly euphemism for large breasted women.
My misunderstanding came from reading "AND none" instead of "BUT none"


I'll fuck off now and promise to leave you girls alone! wink.gif
edie52
Pherber, it's funny that you see the pencil test as an ugly euphemism for large-breasted women... as crino said we've discussed it before, and I think most of us small ladies thought that we "failed" if the pencil fell... and of course that failing was a bad thing. I for one never tried it, because, duh, I knew the pencil would fall, but it used to make me feel bad just hearing about it.

I just watched "I'm Not There." Didn't love the movie, but I loved the little glimpses of Charlotte Gainsbourg's boobies. I think Carla Bruni is beautiful too, though I don't know much about her personal politics, at all. So no comment there.
oceangirl
thanks for replying. OK dumb question but what is a bralette??
karategrrl
QUOTE(dj-bizmonkey @ Jun 11 2008, 04:16 PM) *
here is an uplifting story. i was in the gym locker room the other day and there was a huge swarm of young girls who had just gotten out of the pool. i literally had to wade through them to get to my locker after my shower. i was changing, and trying to modest in front of the little girls, but they were all around me. this cute little mixed girl who was right at my feet looked up at me and said, 'your boobies are pretty!' i was slightly mortified, but blushing was out of embarassment and joy. just thought i'd share.


OMG, that totally makes my day!!!!!! (If it personally happened to me it would make not just my day, but my LIFE!) Thanks SO MUCH for sharing! (and I hope that totaly makes up for your other not-so-fun experience in the locker room with those bitchy girls! wink.gif
hellotampon
That's so funny, I always thought the pencil test was a bad thing! The day I realized I could hold a pencil under my boobs I almost cried. It drove home the fact that I was going to look just like my mom.
crinoline
oceangirl- bralettes : Gathered lace
Lace bandeau
Printed cotton
Stretch lace

good luck!

and dj- that is a totally awesome experience, thanks for sharing!!

hellotampon- We've discussed before that it's interesting that all girls seem to assume that they "failed" the pencil test, and that failure means different things to different people. I know that when the pencil (of course, I have no under-breast crease) hit the ground, I despaired.
dj-bizmonkey
i remember reading about the pencil test for the first time in sixth grade. it was in one of those pre-teen books, 'the daffodils' or some cheesy shite like that. the young girls who couldn't hold the pencil up definitely 'failed.' the girl who could then had to go ask her dad to buy her a bra because her mom was dead yadayadayada. long story short, all my girlfriends at the time were reading the same book and MAN did i get made fun of. not that everyone had big breasts at 12, but the cool girls did. i actually spent two years in middle school stuffing my bras because i was convinced that the real breasts would be growing any day now. 15 years later and here i am, the same size i was when i was 11!

welcome oceangirl! i would go back about three or four pages into the archives of this thread. we have all listed tons of websites that have cute, small-sized bras. if you don't want to shop online, try your local women's petite store. even if you don't fit into all of the clothes (i do NOT!! tongue.gif ) they will be more likely to carry smaller bra sizes and hard to find sizes, like 36AA. some of my favorite websites are aronsales.com and lulalu.com. good luck!
starship
I hope we don't have to explain everything we say from now on:/

QUOTE(crinoline @ Jun 13 2008, 03:34 AM) *
oceangirl- there are all kinds of cute lacy "bralette"s available, I know there are some at urbanoutfitters.com, and elsewhere as well.


I love these strapless (almost)bras from urbanoutfitters (not sure if they sell the same in the U.S). I like to wear a bra under strapless summer tops etc for a bit of shape (lets face it the only reason i wear a bra) but the usual strapless bras are uncomfortable and usually reaquire regular hoisting up despite the irritating rubbery stuff. Actually makes me glad that i can get away with less supportive bras in return for comfort

dj-biz- a comment like that from a non-pervy stranger would have made my day:).

Why is it when googling 'small breasts' a large proportion of the results are either offering a 'treatment' for small breasts (since when are small boobs a disease:/), teen-based porn sites or young girls who have barely started puberty writting to agony-aunt type figures (usually about how they're 13 and only an Acup, i might add).... This site is among the minority of websites giving a positive outlook on small breasts

I dont think there could be any stage of my life when I'd actually 'pass' the pencil test. They can sag all they like but it aint gonna happen
dj-bizmonkey
i just did a google search and i found this: http://www.gnxp.com/blog/2008/03/traits-of...easts-booty.php

wow. the blog which stated that women with large breasts are more likely to get married was a closed forum, so i couldn't read that load of bullshit.

i am going to look up the ancient article in the university library and let y'all know how it turns out.
strongirl
Thanks for helping clarify my comments, Crinoline. And thanks, Pherber, for re-reading and reconsidering. I hope you don't "fuck off".

"It can be painful to possess a body type ("flat-chested" if you will) that does not exist in mainstream imagery of sexy women. This is a space where we celebrate the small (perceived) victories that make us feel "normal" and "sexy"."

Crinoline - that is so well-articulated and thank you for saying it. I want to share as many of those "victories" as I can, even if they come from sources as questionable as Playboy.

"Oh, I can see how reading playboy works wonders for developing a feminist attitude."

Pherber - not to be defensive but for the sake of providing a more complete picture, I am an older feminist (got rocks thrown at me marching for ERA in the 70's) not one who is still "developing" and I actually was sponsored by a feminist anti-pornorgraphy group in the 80's to research and teach a class called "What's Wrong With Playboy and Penthouse?" about why those magazines were counterproductive to healthy sex and gender equality. I guest-taught that class at local universities for their Human Sexuality classes and also presented it at a number of conferences on women's issues, domestic violence, etc. I know the issues but in the context of just sharing one of those "small victories" I didn't bother to do the disclaimer, which I guess contributed to your assumptions. I still read those mags from time to time, both in the context of "know thy enemy" and for enjoyment, since I am bisexual and they have definitely gotten better (less sexist) over the years.

On Carla Bruni's politics, I had no idea - never saw her till that spread and simultaneously googled her which led to listening to one of her songs. Thanks for educating me. I wasn't advocating her as a person or political figure, just saying hey, it's nice to see a hot woman with small tits being appreciated by a magazine better known for silicone and airbrushing. If Playboy can evolve and open up a little, that's progress.
honeybunch
QUOTE(hellotampon @ Jun 13 2008, 09:07 AM) *
That's so funny, I always thought the pencil test was a bad thing! The day I realized I could hold a pencil under my boobs I almost cried. It drove home the fact that I was going to look just like my mom.


I think the pencil test is confusing everybody. See, I thought I failed b/c I couldn't hold a pencil under my boob.

blink.gif blink.gif
neurotic.nelly
QUOTE(dj-bizmonkey @ Jun 11 2008, 09:16 AM) *
here is an uplifting story. i was in the gym locker room the other day and there was a huge swarm of young girls who had just gotten out of the pool. i literally had to wade through them to get to my locker after my shower. i was changing, and trying to modest in front of the little girls, but they were all around me. this cute little mixed girl who was right at my feet looked up at me and said, 'your boobies are pretty!' i was slightly mortified, but blushing was out of embarassment and joy. just thought i'd share.

This is such an adorable story. Too cute!
*******************
Pencil Test: I always thought that if the pencil fell to the ground it meant that you passed the test because your breasts didn't sag.
*******************
Here is an awesome small breasted sex symbol:

Michelle Pfeiffer as the Cat Woman, yum!
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