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mornington
*delurks*

mox - all I can actually think is "awww, cute bebe". She makes me want to snuggle.

yay for frecklette's first dance! (freck, never fear, I was a bridesmaid aged 12, and my mum's mid-twenties coworker asked her if he could have my number... blink.gif ) but the point is, she'll have fun once she realises how much fun dressing up is. I didn't really care about boys for another few years either - these things are all about fun. I too would love to see pics. (I have a ball on tuesday; I'm not going for boys, I'm going to dance with my girlies. pretty dress is still essential however)

*goes back to lurker-land*
pollystyrene
He's so cute Blanche! He looks like my boyfriend's nephew, Garrett. That's him last April, on his 4th birthday. Not a great picture- I need to put some better ones on the computer.
pepper
omg blanche, that picture is just Killing me! what a face. what a HAM! priceless.

little lost his first tooth a while ago. between the two top fakes and the weird little one-instead-of-two next to the lost one, i wonder just what is up with this kids mouth. the new one is growing in practically sideways too, what the heck. i sense braces which is so weird as the rest of my family has dead straight teeth naturally. oh well, he's still just such a cute little bugger!
pepper
ok, he's just plain cute. sorry, i was totally blinded to anything else in the picture by the huge goofy mug on that other kid. wow.

wait, i thought BFF stoof for best female friend? that makes it even funnier!
moxiegirl
really? I thought BFF was kind of generic for best-friend-forever...like just whomever you're closest too in the context of the conversation.
pepper
see, this is why i don't like all these computer abbreviations. i just never really know what anyone is saying anymore!
freckleface2727
cute kids!
all of them!

not only do we prove daily that our minds are superior, but all our various offspring (intellectually as well as biological) are too!

ok.. let me see if I can add to this photopalooza..
you'll have to cut and paste this and turn up the volume on your speakers... !!

dang, the site is down for maintanence , the one time I Finally have a picture!!

frecklette has a dress, one of my old ones, black velvet no less (but knee length), and today I went out & bought 3 shrugs in the hopes that 1 will look right ( & can return the other 2) and a pair of darling maryjane flats w/ a tiny rhinestone buckle on the side. her hair down ( long & curly chestnut) w/ a vintage black satin headband & a choker of sheer black ribbon.
she's going to look Amazing if can say so for myself...
the mr saw her when she had first tried the dress on and we asked what he thought and he said
"[i]I think she's only 12." bc she looks Much older in it. (but in a good, lovely way.)

don't blink mama's, it's goes by much too fast! sad.gif


grenadine
aw, freck, we await the beauty that is la frecklette.

this is cross-posted with CBC 'cos i thought it would be interesting for moms and non-moms alike:

http://www.salon.com/mwt/broadsheet/2006/1...ommy/index.html

what do y'all think? (of both it and gonzalez-clark's essay)

me, i was reminded of the time i went to a loft party when my son was maybe six months old. i had been helping out behind the bar of my friend's art gallery when the brief fling (read: one-month affair) from right before my hubby walked in. he invited me to go back to his artist's loft for a party with about 30 other people. i went, talked to a couple of guys for maybe fifteen minutes, and then left because i just didn't want to be there...and my apathy underscored the pointlessness of the whole party enterprise - i mean, come on, singlehood is predicated on unhappiness.*

*i'm not saying you have to be unhappy to be single - i'm saying that our culture constructs singlehood as an incomplete/unsatisfied state and married/partnered life as "complete." you're *supposed to be* unhappy if you're single, or at least unhappy *with being* single.
pepper
that article made me laugh. sounded like it was written by Such a petulant little brat.

"The country does seem dangerously ensnarled in a backlash cult of mommy madness that values the lives of children over the lives of mothers, and has unnecessarily professionalized the job of child-rearing to the point where women must sacrifice everything else in their world in order to do it right."

really? and here i am thinking that i'm still expected to go to work, keep house, please a partner and deal with my own life As Well As be a great mommy. silly me!
if the lives of children were really valued so much on a vast cultural level moms would have the choice to stay home with their kids and be supported for doing the job of raising a healthy future citizen instead of having to do everything on top of the full time job of parenting.

as far as i can see, moms are still expected to Work outside the home. even having a home based business still isn't seen as 'real' work by some.

and sure, why couldn't we all still find the time, money and energy for partying AND keep our homes from smelling like dirty diapers for when the single folk visit after that night of moshing and making out with bad boys in parking lots. grow up lady.
grenadine
i agree - she didn't sound like someone whose friendship i'd regret losing. i mean - i've never actually flirted with johnny depp, but ya know...i have no desire to flirt with johnny depp.
i was struck by the salon article's use of the word "rage" to describe how we feel about motherhood. that, and the fact that the ideas presented in the chron article - that you're either a drunken starfucker or a diaper-obsessed schlumpf - seem disturbing true in terms of how we think about womens' options.
pepper
seriously? star fucker or diaper obsessed, those are the choices eh? i never got that from my girls (or boys either actually). they are such a diverse crew though, the hairdresser, the circus freak, the business owner who was a mommy young, the corporate mommy, and me, the flower child, etc. i did mostly grow up in toronto though which is a huge multicultural city with thousands of things to do and lifestyles to go along with all mashed up together. more and more i'm finding that my close friends and i have a different perspective than the general populace though. it surprises me.
freckleface2727
the dance is being held in the gym and it was announced on the PA system that it is Sneakers ONLY so the floors don't get scuffed.

I am bummed, stoopid school rules. mad.gif
so much for girly girl glam for a night, hrmph!



the author sounded as if she had lost ALL HER FRIENDS to the contagion known as Motherhood and was pitching a fit in rebellion.
really, much as I NOW dislike small children mostly, but did so much LOVE and enjoy frecklette's wee years all the same (such a cute little potata she was ), I never lost my sense of self while I was her mom at that time. in fact, becoming her mom has empowered and inspired me in the way I view myself in relation to the world. I am aware that my actions do not ever Just affect Me, but her as well, which I like to think helps me to sometimes be a better person overall. does that mean that I have MATURED (in relation to the author being accused of being immature) I don't know, but it Has Changed me.

I guess bc most of my lifelong friends now have kids too, that I haven't felt the same loss of being the odd woman out in that regard but can understand the various multitude of emotions that is sure to bring to the surface. the one closest friend that doesn't have children I take what she offers in terms of availability (we are in dif parts of the country too) bc I know her life is much different than ours in terms of mobility; I respect her choices and appreciate what /where she draws the lines as to the Comfort Zone w/ playing Auntie to frecklette. isn't that Really what it comes down to? respecting and valuing your relationships Period? like any relationship that is important to you, you must allow some elasticity for growth, and one having children and the other Not does not have to be the posion pen any more than one friend moving cross country.

gah, I don't know. I'd carry a banner and rally the troops for the CBC crowd bc I so much identify w/ them, but for not one single second do I ever regret my girlchild or the impact she's had on my life either.

interesting stuffs.
grenadine
aw...bad for fashion, good for the orthopedic health, at least...

i actually am shocked that more people didn't think the Chron essay writer made CBC-ers look like complete idiots. when i was CBC i certainly spent my time doing more than drunken flirting and making out with strangers (although, okay, a little bit of that happened too). i think she betrays her own rage and conventionality with the statement "and we didn't HAVE to get married" (referring to the fact that her friend got pregnant) and, although she laments that her friend "used to have interesting things to say," SHE doesn't actually have anything interesting to say. it's a shame if people 'identify' with her, as she seems like a real dipshit. not someone i would've wanted to be friends with during my many years of the single party lifestyle. but then again, i occasionally PASSED UP ON THE CHANCE TO GET ORAL HERPES FROM RANDOM STRANGERS in order to go home and get sleep so i could get up and write.


just my $.02.
mouse
QUOTE(pepper @ Dec 12 2006, 07:21 PM) *

more and more i'm finding that my close friends and i have a different perspective than the general populace though. it surprises me.


pep. i feel the same way. i grew up in a totally liberal bubble of community. i was raised quaker, which is about the most liberal religion you can find, and everyone in my meeting was like my extended family. my mom works at a school for mentally handicapped kids which functions basically like a tiny commune, and growing up around that and especially with the quaker values and years and years of first-day school conflict resolution shoved down my throat at every turn did a lot for my views on tolerance and acceptance. the women i grew up around were strong and awesome and accomplished and independent, and represented a large cross-section of who you could be. some of my mom's friends had kids, some didn't, some were married, some weren't, some were straight, some were gay, and nobody pressured anybody to be different than they were. it wasn't until i got a lot older that i started realizing that that *isn't* the norm.

freck, there are a lot of cute sneakers masquerading as flats out there. i'm sure your girl can still find something that will go with her outfit!

re: childfree. i think that both sides of the debate have fair points. but i think a lot of the "i lost my friends when they became parents!" is due to an unwillingness to change on the parts of the childfree. and while i'm all for having the right to not be questioned if one doesn't want to change, i think it's a bit of a valid point.

my boss, who is nearing 50 and unmarried and childless (not sure if by choice or not), has very little patience and has trouble communicating her ideas. she gets in fights a lot and loses her temper easily and isn't terribly willing to listen or understand. my coworker, who is the type who will DIE if she isn't married and popping out babies in the next three years, mentioned to me yesterday that she thinks that if our boss had had kids, she'd have more patience with us. i was ready to jump up and defend the childfree, but then i realized that, despite what mindset she's coming from, it's probably true. is that an awful thing to think?
freckleface2727
by the time my frecklette went to buy her ticket yesterday, they were all sold out.

apparently, while her school has 1400 kids, the gym is not equipped to hold them simultaneously, so,
no dance for my girl sad.gif

however, she wasn't too crushed bc several of her girlfriend's weren't able to get tickets yesterday either, so none are too heartbroken at being out of luck.

such is life.



Mando-

are you still with us sweetie? I'm missing you lately huh.gif .
pollystyrene
That's terrible, freckle! If they can't include everyone, they shouldn't have the dance there.

ETA: Could you maybe do a family holiday outing to a fancy restaurant where you all got dressed up? Seems like a shame to let what sounds like a lovely, ladylike outfit go to waste. sad.gif

Did you know ahead of time there was a limited capacity? Either way, it sucks.
pepper
yes, and she can wear her Pretty Shoes too! maybe you could have a girls night out for her and her friends? i'm sure they'd love that.
pollystyrene
That sounds like fun, blanche. Freckle- I'm sure the other girls are disappointed too- maybe all the parents could chip in for a night like that?

When I was 12, I would have much rather done that than go to a school dance and have to spend time with boys, potentially dancing with them. Ick.
freckleface2727
dance tix were only $5**, but you know, that night at the hotel w/ an indoor pool is a KILLER idea!!!!

a lot of girls are having roller skating parties lately, bc the rink does them fairly cheap and covers pretty much everything, but still, by the time you buy everything else, it all still adds up.
maybe having her 13th party in a site like might be really cool?
altho, only a few girls at the most, w/ an adjoining room for poor mom to sleep in to keep an eye on them- yes?
freck's b-day isn't til the end of april, so we've still got a lot of time yet.

are you all done w/ your shopping yet?

I am peeved, bc freck's laptop wasn't supposed to arrive before monday, and when I came home today, fedex had left me a Sorry We Missed You slip.
grrrr.

off to track them and it down before she comes home today~ ~
mandolyn
freck, that sucks about the dance. too bad they couldn't rent a hall or something. but i'd imagine that 1400 kids together would be rather unruly to manage.

which laptop did you decide on? i'm so excited for frecklette!

for concert band, the boys must rent/buy tuxedos. can i just say, my boy can wear a tux!
bond ... dan bond!
freckleface2727
mando-

we ended up getting a great deal through Office Max on a Compaq Pressario, price of $699** but w/ rebates taking it down to about $450**, and while it's not super high speed, it has the room to add memory etc so it can grow with her, at least for a year or two.
I looked at the Apples online and honestly, don't or coudln't understand enough to know what was what so thankyou all for the advice, I'm sorry I coudln't take it sad.gif

frecklette is home sick right now, her last day.5 before Xmas break, w/ a bad cold and some sort of funky rash on the inside creases of her elbows; she looked it up in a healthwise handbook (compliments of our hmo) and decided she thinks she has Scarlet Fever, bc she is A) running a low-grade fever, and B ) also has a rash.
- this is what happens when you teach a kid to read! biggrin.gif

when is Bond, Dan Bond's (hee!) concert?
I love going to those! last year freck was in chorus, but this year no. dangit. the clangy off key music just gets me in the Christmas spirit every time. you will take pictures for us yes? I bet he's going to be quite the looker in that tux! but, whatever happened to school-issued tuxes? that seems awfully expensive to do for each and every concert, and Buying a tux? I don't even wanna know!
pepper
hee hee, numero uno school pageant today, and bake sale too!
i'm high on sugar and i have the best pictures of my wee little thespian!
i actually bought back my tray of organic shortbread to serve my sister and her mister when they come for dinner tomorrow night. i'm bad, i know, but they're so good!
pepper
blanche, how awful. and a blessing at the same time. gah.
freckleface2727
ok, probably I'm biased here, but seriously, he was the cutest kid in the picture pepper.
granted, the other kids were cute too, but w/ red glowey eyes, eyyy, no thanks! tongue.gif
he looks like such a little cheese in the most adorable way. yah for Little to be so BIG! smile.gif

only Once have the mr & I been wished a merry Christmas this season.
once. even if they just say Happy Holidays, hey- it's at least something Nice.
gah. I guess the old days of genuninely being happy to help people find the right gifts for people and wishing them good tidings are over for good. how sad.

blanche, awful, just really & truly awful for your little.
- did he witness or see something that confirmed this? is it enough proof for the courts to be involved in terms of termination of parental rights? and if so, is there any small small chance she'd surrender them to let You adopt him? legally, it could make a real difference although I know emotionally none at all. you're his mama, Period. and by all means sweetie, post away here w/ us and anywhere else that helps.
I didn't even know we Had a Step thread here, but I think it's great.

I hope that all the mama's and kiddo's holiday's are filled with So Much LOVE this season that you all nearly burst!
pepper
Hee!
actually, i didn't cry. i was pretty happy overall. i just wanted to pick him up after and take him home for snuggles but he had to go back to class, boo!
pepper
i love that purple mohawk too.
boy did we have fun! i let him open a gift or two each day for a few days leading up and it made it SO much less crazy on the day. last year we had tears and serious overwhelmed overstimulation. this year was much, much better!
how was everyone's ho-ho-holiday? pictures?
free_spirit
What are you thoughts on this?

I have two year old twins. One male, the other female. Lately I have been noticing that my son is overly interested in all things feminine. With much encouragement and exposure to masculine things such as sports and rough house play, he is not interested in at all. He always finds his way back to my daughters doll or my heels, polish and make up (which I take from him everytime I see him with any of the "female" things)

Prior to him turning 2 I would let him pick up a doll and play with it, but once I noticed that he doesnt like football, basketball or baseball type things I became a little concerned.

His father is absent from the household. I am wondering how his behavior will effect him in the long term (if at all) and if him being exposed constantly to me (very feminine) and my daughter playing in make up and with dolls (where for obvious reasons I dont include him)rubs off on him.

In my mind I am wondering if this means he will be gay (not that thats good or bad) just want to know what this all means.

(I know you all might think, hes a kid, this is a silly/stupid question) but to that I just say that on every talk show (if they could be considered reliable sources of information) the gay or lesbian person always says "I've known since I was 2, a little boy/girl", etc.

If he is to grow up and be a gay man I will love him just the same and even more. I just don't want my son to be discriminated against, or have bad/hard school days because of being gay (if in fact this is what all of this is alluding to).

I try to get him to be interested in sports, and things "boys should be doing"... But he does not seem into that.

Another thing is he is has long (which I am wondering should I cut) he looks like a cute baby girl, when in fact he is a boy (you can tell he is a boy because of how he dresses. He has super long curly eyelashes and small pouty feminine looking lips....

I just want to know if there is anything I should be doing or saying to him/ for him. I just want the best for both of my kids.
If this is his destiny, it is what it is, I just want to know what it all means.
So imput would be great.

([size=2] In my heart I want him to be a straight man, just because I feel that he will have a bad or hard childhood as well as adulthood if he cant except it (all hypothetically) or he sees that others cant except him)
pepper
your concerns are valid but i think that you are giving a lot of thought and worry to something that has very little actual bearing on your son at this age. wait until puberty to worry about sex related issues. i mean, of course raise your children in a healthy, accepting, loving environment that will lead them to be healthy, loving and accepting adults but let them be children now, while they can.
i never limit what i let my son play with or how he expresses himself creatively. repression leads to disfunctional behavior later on in my opinion. and i'm certainly not going to encourage sports in my children of either sex as i am fairly opposed to competitive behavior but i wouldn't hold them back if that was something they wanted to do and i do encourage other physical activity. little has gone to gymnastic and ballet classes and will start swimming lessons soon but he hasn't expressed any interest in sports so far.
his interests include arts and crafts, nature, bugs and other living creatures, dragons, lego and cars. and he's a vegetarian by choice because he doesn't "want to eat our animal friends".
he is also very pretty which i think is very age appropriate. children are beautiful, soft lovely hair and skin, huge gorgeous eyes, sweet little lips and cheeks and noses. it doesn't last, puberty is an ugly time.
he's also very huggy and kissy at this age which i totally cherish because i know that that also will not last. puberty again.
i have met many well balanced, sensitive, honest, in touch with their feelings men, both homo and hetrosexual. they all had challenges growing up too, not just the gay guys.
enjoy the sweet time you have with your little ones and let go the worry about who they will be and what they will do as adults. you'll have plenty of time to deal with that as it occurs.
free_spirit
Thanks for your response.
The reason I wanted to put this out here and see what type of responses I would get is because I believe that at the young ages this is the foundation for how things will be in the future.

For example teaching them good and bad, how to behave, right and wrong, etc.

Like how you instill things in them while they are young, so that these things will carry on with them as they get older.

While I am not opposed to gays/lesbians I personally dont want to encourage my son to be or act gay; by watching him play with dolls and watching him paint his nails and run around the house with my heels on.


I dont know if i believe that it is learned, a choice, or you are born that way.

He likes to draw, and he likes pets, etc. its more that i think dolls and make up are for females, not males.

I dont want him to participate in sports to teach him to be competitive, its more so that i associate sports with being predominately for boys and males, opposed to makeup and dolls...

I know this is getting redundant, but I just wanted to add more clarity to what I was trying to say.

I believe that how my son and daughter acts now is an indication how they will possibly turn out later on in life....

pepper
ok, let me clarify a bit of what i was saying too. while you may associate sports with typical male behavior and dolls and dress-up with typical female behavior, kids do not. to them it's just play, it's just fun and creative expression. once they become more aware of gender roles they naturally gravitate towards appropriate ones, but that happens more around school age when they start associating more with large groups of other kids. until then it doesn't mean the same thing to them as it does to you so i wouldn't worry about it overly. the focus for me is on letting him explore his world without unneccessary restrictions, the more you say "no" at any age, the more they want to do it anyhow so letting it run it's course can be a good thing. telling kids that they can't do something that someone else of the opposite sex can do is really confusing for them and can instill feelings of shame. i think a great basis for future good behavior is feeling loved and accepted unconditionally from a young age. shame is just so detrimental to a person's feelings of self-worth and value, i'd take some "girly" behavior from my boy instead of that any day. i really don't think it's going to set the stage for homosexuality later on but shame and repression could very well set the stage for an unhappy, disfunctional adult.
free_spirit
i see.
that makes a lot of sense to me.

i guess i could have possibly been reading too much into the way he acts.
i just didnt want to condone his behavior when i dont agree with it personally.
i want to guide and teach him the things i believe are the right way for him until he is older to decide for himself.

i was looking at the situation like you wouldn't start to try to teach your child how to be respectful once puberty hits, you start embedding that in their minds while they are little so that they have it down pact by the time they are older.

i applied that frame of mind to the same thing with him liking to play with dolls and heels. i wouldnt let him have it all these years while he is a baby, then try to teach him that its for girls when he hits puberty.

also, the fact that i noticed that he seemed completely disinterested in the things that "are for boys" and overly interested in the things that "are for girls" only heightened my concern with this situation.

i feel that would cause more confusion than anything, because he would probably think "its ok to play with it for all these years, now why when i am older it is wrong or bad"...same with disrespect and being bad, etc...
i wouldnt let him hit me now as a baby when he is upset, and then try to tell him don't hit me when he gets older...
i would want to nip it all in the bud now as a baby.

but i do see what you mean.

i guess i am too analytical sometimes...but that is a classic trait of Virgos.

thanks for replying!
smile.gif

but i do see how you meant it, now that i have read your second post.
grenadine
free spirit, he is a toddler - maybe the reason he's so interested is that you disapprove! i think this may be a case where your trying to not condone his behavior will cause him to pursue the very behavior you don't like! and pepper is so right: at this age, it's just play, and he needs to know his mom loves him and wants him to play (i.e. "learn"!) - he might get the wrong message and think you disapprove of him (as a person) if you come on too strong right now. i can totally see why you are concerned, but again - he's two. my husband wore dresses when he was three (he thought it would get him more attention). he's not gay, nor does he wear dresses now...but if his parents had tried to discourage him i could definitely see him developing a lifelong shame/fascination complex about it. that's something i would want to avoid.
moxiegirl
There was an article in last week's NYT Magazineabout the whole "Princess" disney thing and how, if at all, it affect wee kids...these products marketed to the 2-6 year old set. Makes me think of your situation, free spirit. After reading it, I am pretty sure that kids will play with whatever holds their attention at the time. If you tell him that "dresses are bad" for HIM, he may just ask you "why not for you? or sister?" explaining that things are just for boys or girls at his age is a rough road, right?
hiddenpoet
Does anyone have any advice for dealing with this situation?
Ariadnie is a generous girl and has a collection of the littlest pet shop toys. most of these were bought with her allowance money, though some were recently bought as christmas gifts and birthday gifts. the first time she gave two to her friend sierra i thought it was thoughtful and good. the second time i asked her about it and she said she wanted to but i could see the look on her face and she didn't really want to. i decided that if that's what she wanted to do then it was her money and her business. the third time i told her that she couldn't trade or give them away anymore. then they did it again today and lied to me when i asked if the littlest pets were not traded or given. but the part that really makes me mas is i know that sierra is the one asking for them, especially after today. Ariadnie traded eight of hers for four of sierras. i couldnt reach them on the phone tonight but they are supposed to play tomorrow so i'm definitely talking to her mom about it before that so that they can trade back all the ones they did today.
so now because of the lie i'm wondering if i have to police everything they do when theyre together. i always kept an eye on them before but now... what do you busties think?
freckleface2727
sierra is her friend? (sorry, it's early, not sure I'm reading it right)
we went through something similar w/ freck & her sneaky friend tammy when she was about 6 or so.. don't remember what it was they were trading or collecting, nothing real expensive, maybe beanie babies? (not the expensive ones) but I realised that more & more were gone, or I'd see this girl leaving our home w/ them; turns out that this child was telling my freck that she wouldn't be her friend if freck didn't give her things. I was Livid!! I'm not saying this is the case, but do def talk to the child's mom and find out what she knows. some trading of stuff is ok, but Only when we know about it and give the ok and it's an equal Trade, not a gimme.
as far as how much farther to keep an eye on them, again, I'd talk to this girl's parents, see what they know, see if there are any other issues going on related to how they play when they are together.
in our case, this tammy child looked like rebecca of sunnybrook farm whereas in reality, she was more like Chucky in female form; wrote on freck's lampshade w/ an inkpen and then SWORE it wasn't her, scribbled on walls w/ crayons, bullied and threatened poor frecklette to make her do what she wanted...needless to say once we caught on, even frecklette was glad to see her gone w/ our intervention bc I don't think she knew what to do. in your case a quick and effective fix might be as easy as coming to an agreement w/ sierra's parents and then sitting both girl's down together next time there is a pickup for a playdate & you are all there and explaining that there is no more trading/gift-giving (that's also how this kid manipulated freck, told her it was nice to give friends Gifts and this was what she wanted, sigh.)
don't know if any of this has helped you.. when you are dealing w/ tender hearted kids this is tricky territory.
pepper
are all kids the same? little loves to give away his peak-a-poohs and then is so very sad afterwards. i let him trade one, once because it was a double but after that i explained to him that there was to be NO giving away of his toys or other things to friends at all. he gets it, we give gifts to friends at parties and when we find something that a friend would like but his things stay in the house. otherwise he'd give away expensive toys and things without my knowing only to lament it later on. he really doesn't understand the giving vs sharing thing, and sharing has been strongly encouraged all his life so far...

i think talking to the other parent and having ALL the trades reversed as a learning lesson for the girls might be a good thing. they can lend each other things but with both parents supervising and a return date implemented. i might even go so far as to discuss a replacement policy for lost or damaged items. that's the way a grown up trade would work (idealy).
hiddenpoet
thanks for the input busties!
i'll eventually get a hold of seirra's mom and talk to her about it, though i couldn't reach them again today. i don't know exactly why Ariadnie let her friend swindle her but i told her that if she never says no then other people will never stop asking for things. i'm certain that we can all work this out with a positive outcome so i'm not as worried about it as i was yesterday / late last night.
freckleface2727
glad you feel better about the situation hidden poet, and what a good idea to use this as a learning experience for your girl.

frecklette has invited Churchy Girl (the one who's (pastor) parents don't like me and I never could figure out why) to spend the night New Year's Eve. I'm a little irritated that she chose Her, but sinse her BF moved, and then her 2nd BF also moved, she's migrating around w/ her 3rd and 4th strings... anyway, this is the same child who casually mentioned that her mom told her to "always wear old clothes to your house bc of all the dog hair." Grrrrr! yes we have a dog, and yes, he does shed a lot, but it's not as it we let him lick the bowels and eat at the table with us! mad.gif
I have the worst urge to call her mom, or wait for her to call me w/ " the decision from her dad" and in the course of describing what we'll be doing that night toss in a little " ....watch some tv, maybe a movie.. practice a little witchcraft and devil worship to honor the New Year, MAYBE even some animal sacrifice if the moon is still high so make sure she has some ok to get dirty playclothes with her... you know, no big thing." bc I so Actively Don't Like These People.
I know it's juvenile ridiculous to want to upset them like this, but damnit- They Started It!

mando-

how was The' Concert?
grenadine
aw freck...remember you have a unique opportunity to offer churchy girl an evening of liberation! i'd take it the other way and tell 'em that instead of your usual grace at dinnertime, you'll be reading the entire sermon on the mount so that y'all can make all your new year's resolutions with WWJD in mind. then ask if he has any suggestions for other passages from the Word.
yo.
freckleface2727
I so heart you grenadine, but I highly doubt he would see the sarcasm of me saying that sad.gif .

I tell you.. I am almost Hell Bent on discovering what I did to soo wrong him.
really, I might just have to drop the f-bomb around him just to get a reaction one way or the other.


...meanwhile, I am forcing (really against her will, at least til she catches the spirit of it) my wee girl to watch the Blues Brother's movie on tv w/ me right now;

high past time to educate & raise her up Right! biggrin.gif
grenadine
he doesn't have to see the sarcasm...it's purely for your own amusement. wink.gif hope frecklette see the light on fine film.
puppykitty
Hihi. I'm PuppyKitty, or just PK, as my pals in the Okayers thread call me. I don't think I have ever posted in this thread before, even though I am the mother of a twelve-year-old boy.

Someone in the Okayers thread suggested I drop in here for some parenting support - stuff like that. I'm having some issues that are breaking my heart.

I'm going to read the archives now to get up to speed on what you all are discussing. Mind if I join you?
puppykitty
Sorry for the Double Post - I just read some of the archives and I wanted to respond to the mom who was afraid her small son might be gay because he plays with "girl" toys.

When my son, Heikki, was very small, he played with Barbie dolls, loved "The Little Mermaid", and wanted to be a princess. Although my overly manly, macho, jock-ish male relatives made fun of it to me, no one ever discouraged it. In fact, for his 4th birthday, three different people got him Little Mermaid Ariel dolls. I thought it was cute, and knew that it didn't make him gay. These types of things don't make a person gay. Heikki was interested in "girl" toys, makeup, etc., for quite a while, but eventually he started playing with his Ariel dolls by giving them rides in his toy tow truck.

I guess, what I am trying to say is, it is not something to worry about. I agree with the other responses - if you make a big deal out of it, it will become a big deal to the boy.

Although this doesn't matter at all, you might find comfort in the fact that Heikki, at 12 years old, now likes to play football, video games, and even confided to my friend that he has a crush on a girl.

Also, I would like to say that I am impressed in how supportive this thread is with the issue she brought up and with her deep concern over the matter. I don't mean to be rude or disrespectful in any way, but I have to confess that at first I thought it was going to be a troll post.
freckleface2727
welcome PK smile.gif

and can I say, I dig your boy's ultra cool sounding name;
is there an origin or history to it?

hurrah for mama's that let their kids be who they want to be in their time in the moment!

ps:
girlchild abandoned the Blues Brothers movie first chance she got.. maybe she's still a little too young to fully appreciate it yet?
pepper
gah freckle, i don't like that movie and i'm coming up on 35!

sorry.

dan akroyd is tall.
puppykitty
Heikki was my great great grandfather's name. He was from Finland.

I was going to name my son Heikki (for real), but his dad was adamantly opposed. He said the kid would get too much crap, and that he hated the name anyway. So - maybe he would get a lot of crap - but only for most of his childhood and all of his adolescence! Sheesh. He would learn to appreciate it someday.

Anyway - that's the story behind Heikki's name.

I live in southern Arizona, and Heikki lives in Colorado with his dad and step-mom. I saw him for Christmas - we both went to Chicago to visit friends and family. I miss him so much now. I talked to him on the phone today. Usually we don't have much in the way of conversations ("How are you, Heikki?", "Good.", "What are you doing?", "Nothin'."), but today we chatted it up. It was pretty cool.

I guess it is snowing pretty hard up there right now, and he was stuck inside and couldn't play the XBox because he smarted off to his dad.

So anyway - There is a lot of crap leading up to this, but on our trip to Chicago, Heikki was so disrespectful and mean to me. He called me an idiot, and said it would be nice if I had a brain. I don't know how to deal with this behavior. He sees me as a peer instead of as a parent. He even complained to my ex-husband that I had a pink razor phone, so he should get a cell phone, too. WHA?? He's 12, fer cryin' out loud!

Aaah! I just had to vent. I'm so frustrated. When we're on the phone, we're cool, but in person - he hates me. He also hugs me in a very violent way and slugs me on the arm - acting like it's just a joke. BUt I know he is really feeling aggressive toward me and is trying to get it out. Know what I mean?

SO - I just wanted to see what you guys think of this. Of course, there is much more info leading up to this behavior, but I didn't want to tell our life story in a post.

I just got off work and I can't sleep - it's 3:00 AM! Sheesh.

I hope you guys are having peaceful nights, and I hope to see you in the morning.
girlygirlgag
That is tough, PK. Have you discussed it with his dad? Maybe he feels a conflict because he (I don't want to hurt your feelings, because I love some PK) identifies with the parental roles coming from Dad's house and you are more like a buddy? Is there anyway you can get more visitation? It may also be a boy thing? He is starting puberty and may be identifying with the "male" role because he is becoming one?

The mr is letting the little ones help him paint the woodwork in the hallway. I am sitting here, STRESSING! The boy has already knocked the paint can over laugh.gif I wish I had a video camera.
freckleface2727
PK,
I agree w/ ggg that some of it might be the Male Role Model stuffs and the fact that he only physically see's you every so often and so doesn't see you in the same Parental Light as his dad maybe... but also, my frecklette is 12 too and every great once in awhile she'll throw out something incredibly disrespctful like ' as if YOu'd know' when she asks me my opinion about something and I don't agree w what she already knows she wants to do. it's the Teen Thing. no, it's Not Ok, and never ever should be, but I do think it's normal, even for generally good kids. pushing boundries, seperating self from parents, it's how we all grow up and learn who we are.

as for him complaining to your ex about you having a phone and he should get one too- #1 Kids are NOT the same as parents, Period. my frecklette doesn't have her own cell (tho even several, wait, now Most of her friends her age do, even one's w/ ultra conservative parents) and she's not dying from it. she knows she can earn it eventually w/ more responsible behavior like improved grades & chores around the house; so far, it's not that important.
#2 hopefully your ex didn't allow your son to "tattle" on you/turning both sides against the middle. do you & he have a pretty ok relationship in terms of a united front to your son? I don't know anything about the dynamics of a situation like that though, so I'll shut up bc I am completely unqualified, but I know how kids will do that, play each parent against the other.

we're really glad you're here PK. smile.gif


ggg ( I wanna type that as g3 biggrin.gif ) how did their project turn out?
pepper
pk, i would for sure talk to the papa and see where he's at with this. hopefully it's not his attitude and words being repeated through your son. i have four much younger siblings and lemme tell ya, the tweens were the absolute worst years ever. it's like they are hormonally insane and can't control themselves at all. i think a discipline is good, like martial arts or another demanding physical activity to help them focus some of their anger and give them direction. also therapy is really great. an objective observer with mucho tween/teen behavioral experience who can see and understand the things that are baffling to us. it's a hard path to tread, the mentoring of a young adult, and it's easy to take things personally and to screw shit up for the both of you. i really, really think some outside help is the way to go when things are tricky and you feel like it's out of your control. because, really, it is out of your control. they are just coming into/realizing some of their own power and it's not good for it to be stifled any more than it's good for it to be directionless and angry.
good luck! i've got another 6 or so years to go.
hiddenpoet
PK i think that being a smartmouthed brat is occasionally part of being a tween and ordinarily wouldn't be wondering about it like why guys can't take out the garbage or clean the toothpaste out of the sink. but you also said that there was a lot more leading up to this behavior. pepper is right, sometimes outside help is the best if not for the two together then maybe just you alone can go and get the advice you need.
Ariadnie goes to a group session at school with thier school counselor and other kids from differant classes or even grades to help her open up. she's painfully shy at school or anywhere with a large group and this has been very helpful.
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