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humanist77
Here is the email I sent to her. It's rather long so I posted it to my livejournal.

I'm posting it because I think it better illustrates the issue, anyone is welcome to read it and respond. Thanks!
mornington
humanist, I think that's brilliant! It's very well written, and I hope she takes the time to read it. It explains your point of view, and is personal without being *too* personal (if that makes sense; it's not invasive). mm, count me in on the ring suggestion.

(that reminds me, do any of the uk busties know if you can get the ring on the nhs over here? what's it's medical name?)
shinyx3
*delurks*

humanist, i have been following this and all i can say is *wow!* i am now pregnant with my second child and am very happy about it. however, this is fourth pregnancy, and the only one that was entirely planned, so i can see both sided of this. my son who is ten now and i have raise for the most part, on my own is a wonderful gift. i am not so nieve however to think that it was all just ment to be that way. i have looked back and wondered what my life may have been had i not been a young mommy going to school andworking an barely scraping by. i have also terminated an unwanted pregancy. all three time proir to this pregnacy i was on the pill, too. so i really do see this matter from more then one angle.

i have a younger sis who thinks she may be pregnant and is not at all in a situation or a place in her life where a baby is ok. i went through the whole *you have to be on birth control* thing with her and obviosly got no where. she tends to get pissed and shut me out when i am repetitive. if she is indeed pregnant i will bring her to where i am and hold her hand through the termination of it. she has already made the decision to teminate if she is preg. i wish i could get her to read this thread but she will have an excuse. i will try though. she seems to prefer ignorance to having information to make a decision with. then she can alway say *well, i didn't know*, which she uses far too frequently.

having babbled on . . . i guess i just wanted to say good for you for sticking up for you friend even if she may not see it that way. you must be as true a friend as there is ans she is lucky to have you.

lapis
I don't know if these would help but there is this non-hormonal birth control you can order from India which is actually comparable to the pill in terms of effectiveness and you order it online--it's cheap, safe, proven and does not require a doctor's care from what I know.

http://www.cdriindia.org/centchroman.htm

and natural family planning--she could monitor her cycle and lay off the sex in the dangerous times.
http://www.fwhc.org/birth-control/fam.htm
lapis
On a more responsive level I have a lot to say about this situation from a really immediate place. First of all, I feel like going to the doctor is a natural part of being a responsible, sexual person, that std testing and birth control are part of taking on the responsibility of sex--to me, it is part of being grown up. People who have sex can get pregnant and contract stds--this is not not a moral judgment--it's a fact of sex. So, having sex puts people into situations with potential for risk, like pregnancy, stds, HIV, rejection, emotional vulnerability, and they have to be prepared for avoiding those risks or be prepared to deal with the consequences.

Also, it seems like one of the drawbacks (and great freedoms) of our culture is that we feel sexuality is a right and it makes pursuing sex and dating a whole different kind of ballgame than in places where sex is the reproductive expectation tied to marriage. If we were oriented toward having sex to get pregnant rather than achieving pleasure, I suspect it would make people hesitate to have sex with the kinds of partners they usually select at the ages at which sex usually happens in the US. I must say that, when I previously thought I was infertile, my entire perspective on dating was completely different from thinking of having sex as a potential way to become a parent. As a prospective parent searching for a partner (who might become a prospective co-parent), I would want a financially stable, responsible person who is more than a sweet talker or a good lay. I never learned this before because I was only looking for pleasure and thought pregnancy would only happen as a result of a force of will. Sex can be a luxury--a totally hedonistic thing or an act of spiritual sharing, but unless you take precautions and are prepared for those precautions to fail--in reality sex is how people make babies. Not getting pregnant often requires more force because you are trying to un-condition your body to do what it is biologically driven to do--make babies. It feels good because our bodies want us to...make babies. Although we are socialized to see ourselves as sex symbols or hotties, as lovers and dates, people having hetero sex are really perfectly honed machines for procreation--and anything else is a struggle against the reproductive imperative coded into our cells. And it's easy to ignore or deny it--but our bodies really want it even if our consciousness thinks everything's under control. Sorry to sound redundant but this sex=babies thing gets disconnected by society and it's hard to imagine in a place where we are inundated with image of sexy people. Porn is really weird to watch when pregnant because you see that we are hardwired to procreate and the porn industry (and society at large) has created this illusion that we can do these sexy things with abandon without dealing with their underlying biological impulse. and, although people can look really great really greased up and panting and penetrating, if you try this at home, you will likely wind up making a baby.

I am pregnant now (entirely unplanned, though on the map for my life) and have gotten the speeches about it ruining my life and I must say that, although it is inconvenient, doing something on the front end of sex (getting and regularly utilizing reliable birth control with an understanding that nothing's 100% effective, abstaining from hetero sex, or rigorously hunting for someone who might be a good parent should you choose to throw other cautions to the wind--as some viable possibilities) is way easier than trying to deal with the ramifications of not doing those things. Your friend has the right to live out her dreams and succeed and she also has the right to have pleasurable sex--I don't think those things are mutually exclusive. But having unprotected sex might cancel out the possibility for those dreams to happen or could complicate those dreams, and I am not sure that's worth it. For me, being pregnant and not is the difference between losing my financial autonomy, pushing back my goals, and staying in contact with a person I would not have chosen as a life partner when I could choose to line things up for a really easy next few years until I would have found an ideal mate. I have a pretty specific set of reasons for making this choice but wouldn't recommend it for anyone who could make a different plan. Things will almost always work out, but in this time period, we have the privilege to have the lives we want in conjunction with the sex that feels good. I would encourage your friend to do something to avoid getting pregnant because it is so much easier than the alternative unless she and her partner are in a really good place.

Hope this isn't too much...
lapis
One more thing, Humanist. A visit to the gyn is way less invasive than 9 months of prenantal care in terms of healthcare being in your business-not to mention the labor! Suddenly you have ultrasound probes, doctors' hands, a growing being etc. in your business for nine months rather than once a year with a mere speculum and some KY. Also, while contraception is more of a private choice, being pregnant makes your existence way more public and suddenly strangers, friends and family are all in your personal space, watching your diet, your changing body, your drinking habits, everything you do. There are reasons why acess to contraception and abortion have been linked to women's liberation through feminism...
humanist77
Thank you all for the additional responses!
Thank you, mornington-I really did put a lot of thought into the email, and though I haven't gotten a response from her yet, I hope she read it and thought about it too.

shinyx3 and lapis, thank you both so much for your honesty-I can imagine it being hard to confront those feelings. It's good to hear from women who have been and are going through the experience, and otherwise have a personal connection with this issue.

lapis, my sister was just telling me the exact same thing-about how being pregnant is way more invasive than a gyno exam! And that's exactly what I'm trying to make her realize-that preventing it is a lot easier than dealing with it after it's too late.

shinyx3, I hope your sister will be okay-it's good she has you there for her.

octinoxate, I wondered if deep down inside of her, that might be true-but I really hope she isn't that dumb. They've only been dating for a month. Granted, he is a really good guy, but there is just no way she'd feel like it would be okay to get pregnant at this point. I think she is just so afraid to take the steps to prevent it, that she is in denial that it will happen at all.

As I was explaining to another Bustie in a PM, my friend has known a lot of very young, single mothers over the years, which (even though it should have the opposite effect), is why she might feel that it's not a big deal to become a young, single mother. They all seemed to be doing fine. But she's not *seeing the trees for the forest*, if you will. These women all just happened to have fairly wealthy parents (which she does not have) who helped them out financially, and watched the kids most of the time, while the mother worked or went out with friends. But none of them went to school or had a career. They may have made the best out of their situations, which is why they appeared to be doing okay, but they missed so much-they could've gotten an education and a career and been able to earn a living, and taken the time to learn responsibility, becoming mentally/emotionally ready for children.

All of their children, respectively, had behavioral problems, one had major toilet trailing issues, and one of them had a particularly foul mouth because of being around his mother's young, dumb friends. I'm not saying all children of young single mothers have problems, but the over-whelming majority of them do.

She has worked SO hard to get where she is now in school, and that would all be gone. I have to ask myself if I am overstepping my boundaries-if this is her business and I should just stay out of it, but I know that I'm not because she's not seeing things clearly or objectively, she's risking a lot of serious stuff, for her and her bf, and someone needs to step in. Not to mention the other person who will be adversely affected-their potential child. I'm not a stranger or a casual aquaintence-I have a right to be concerned with this and step in. Am I right?

As I said, I still have not gotten a response yet. I have no idea what to expect, really. I'm giving her some time and space.

Thanks again, all~and please keep discussing it if you like, I need all the ideas I can get.
humanist77
oh-and lapis, wow-I am very curious about this non-hormonal bc from India. I wonder why it isn't available here or anywhere else? Of course, I am skeptical about it-but very interested. It's hard to understand exactly how it works-do you know of another source that explains it better? Thank you for the suggestion!
sybarite
Humanist, I'm coming to this a bit late, but wanted to say I agree with mornington: I think the sex may be clouding her brain (it's certainly done that to me!) so that she can't--or won't--think about anything else.

I also think your attempt to demystify going to the gyn is an excellent idea. Maybe you could frame it in practical terms: suggest she just take time out to see a gyn (after she's visited yours with you) and then reassure her she can go right back to happily shagging her man! Once she's protected it's all good... and they won't have the worry of an unplanned pregnancy.

Good luck, and good for you for supporting her.
dayglowpink
Also, just a random thought, but maybe she would feel more comfortable seeing a Women's Health Nurse Practitioner. They tend to have a more holistic approach and think in a less medicalized way. I do agree that she may unconsciously have a desire to get pregnant on some level. I have been there before, and I know how strongly those feelings can influence behavior without getting into our conscious minds at all.
humanist77
syb-not at all late, I hope to get as many responses as possible. I definitely agree with that, part of it is she's just too busy enjoying a new relationship and good sex. But we know that she still needs to be responsible.

dayglow, that is a great idea, I will suggest that. And as I said, she has known a lot of young, single mothers, and in some way, that life might be appealing to her. Who knows? I doubt her bf wants to go through it though.

It's bizarre how completely different she and I are from each other.
lapis
Humanist77,
For the non-hormonal birth control, you can try this site for info. http://groups.msn.com/Centchromanclub
Basically this pill de-synchronizes your cycle so your endometrium is thin when you ovulate, so there's no possibility for implantation. Supposedly, India developed this to control their population problem and have not really felt the need to make it all that profitable or international. I suspect it's not readily available here because it's cheap and can't really compete with other birth control giants. I mean, everyone goes on ortho tri-cyclen not because it's a good pill (it's actually a pretty shitty pill with lots of emotional side effects) but ortho advertises a lot with physicians. Also, there have been some pregnancies but it seems like they occur in the first couple of cycles, while the body's building up the medicine in its system.

If this isn't enough, you can pm me and I can consult with my friend about where you should look online. She's been doing it for a year without having any side effects (in fact, she lost weight, her libido's back, she's mentally on top of it compared to her experience on the standard bc pill) or pregnancies.
dayglowpink
Aaaah, just have to have a really long rant about something. I worked myself into an absolute panic last night and this morning over this, and I think I'm just being crazy, but maybe there is a shred of reality in there, too, I don't know. So my guy and I have been seeing each other for about a year. It is a FWB relationship, no official commitment. We started out just having sex, but then we became good friends, and now we hang out all the time, and it's basically like we're dating. I definitely have feelings for him now but am pretty ambivalent about whether I want a boyfriend, and he doesn't want that right now. Anyway, we used to do it all the time like crazy, and things have definitely slowed down which I know is somewhat normal in relationships, but now we are at some bizarre point where I want sex much more than he does. Basically I am horny 24 hours a day, and I want to fuck him every time I see him. It's weird, because when we first met I was worried that I wouldn't be able to keep up with his sex drive, and now it's the opposite.

So I have talked to him about this, because there have been a couple of times that I tried to initiate something, and he just wasn't into it, or more specifically he wasn't into the way I tried to do it, like I was too blunt about it or something. He has told me that it's not hard to get him into the mood but I just need to be kind of gentle and sweet about it. However, when I am horny I usually really want him to WANT me and take control of the situation. So last night we were laying around in bed for a while, and I kept wanting him to get things going, but he wasn't doing it, so I got a little pissy. Then he asked what was wrong, and I finally told him, and he just reiterated what I could do, but then I get all self-conscious and cannot get over the feeling that I'm bothering him. In the past, all my relationships have been the guy always attacking me, and I've been the one to have to turn them down, and I know how annoying that can be. Now my sex drive is way way higher, though.

Nothing ended up happening last night, because I just couldn't get over feeling weird. And I worked myself up to the point that I was crying and panicking that he doesn't like me anymore and isn't attracted to me and hates having sex with me and whatever other paranoid thoughts. Normally when we spend the night together we always do it in the morning; that's when his sex drive is the highest, so I figured that would happen today with no problem. But when I tried to get things going, he fell back asleep, and I was so hurt and angry that I just had to get up and leave immediately (to go to work). I don't really know what else to do, because really I just want that feeling that he really wants to fuck me and not that I am like begging for it all the time. I hate that I want him more than he wants me, and it makes me feel like there is something wrong with me and that it's just this terrible doomed thing. I know I have some issues about this, but it's somewhat of a normal reaction, I think. ??

It's fucked up, because I feel like he's the guy, he's the one who is supposed to want to have sex anytime, and I'm not even in a relationship with him, so it's not like I have committed to put up with the normal ebbs and flows of a relationship. But I don't want to stop seeing him or cut things off, because I do feel committed in many ways due to my feelings for him and caring about him and our friendship as well as the time and emotional energy I've put into it. I don't want to give up, because I do have some serious problems with being in relationships and being close to people, so it's pretty easy for me to find excuses and ways out when things are getting closer. Technically I can go out and find other guys to fuck or whatever, but that's not even what I want. It's just so frustrating, I can't even think straight about it. This morning at work I was in the worst mood and kept almost crying. It did get better eventually, and I'm not as angry anymore, but I can just see it continuing to be a problem. Okay, sorry this is so long, but I feel a little better getting it out.
maimy
Dayglow, it sounds like this is becoming deeper for you, and he's resisting that. On the one hand, a guy is expected to want sex no matter how it's presented as an option, but on the other, he probably senses that there's more attached to it in the old days. He may think he's saving your feelings by not giving you what you want. It'd be easier and better for everyone, IF this is the case, for him to just say "I can't do this because I don't think I can provide what it is you really want out of it" and go.

If that is NOT the case, however, it could be a lot of things. Work fatigue, stimulation burnout (not that you aren't hot - but we all have short attention spans when stress levels rise), even reluctance to deal with his own changing emotional investment in you. It may be a new prescription or changes in diet. It could be the alignment of the stars.

But - and this is not meant to sound brutal, but sometimes honesty is that way - it really sounds like you're putting down some emotional roots, and he's not watering this thing ...
crinoline
Humanist- I am having much the same problem. I originally posted in the general health thread, but was told to come here:

My best friend refuses to get a pap smear. She is 22 and needs birth control pills, but of course she can't get a doctor to prescribe them without an exam. Her mother, who I do not get along with, has instructed her to do whatever it takes to avoid being "violated". She even suggested that J (my friend) pretend to be some religion that prohibits exposure. Both J and her mother have a love of prescription pills, but a general distrust of doctors. Anyway... I've been wracking my brain trying to think of a way to convince her that a pelvic exam can only help her. She doesn't believe that any good can come out of it, and cites the fact that none of her female relations have ever had gynecological problems. I just don't know what else to tell her.

Other info: She is sexually active (long term BF), and terrified of getting pregnant. Her sister has had some pregnancy and promiscuity problems in the past, and it is very important for J to remain a "good girl" in her parent's eyes. Any help or advice anyone can offer would be greatly appreciated. I've talked myself in circles on this issue.

Dayglow- It does sound like you might need to watch out, so that you don't get your emotional toes stepped on. However, I have been in a relationship for 2 years and some change, and I've had much the same problem. Occasionally, Crinoboy just wants sex less than I do. It's not because he doesn't want me, it's because he is tired or stressed, or even just plain lazy. That can really mess with my self-esteem though, because I begin to think that there something wrong with me, to want sex when my man doesn't. It can be helpful to take some pressure off of him to "be the man" and want sex all the time. Men are still human. Just back off a little bit (although sometimes guys like it if you're aggressive-depends on your guy) and be subtly sexy. Let him know what he's missing out on, but don't really pursue him. Does that make sense? Anyway, that's what has worked for me in the past. Good luck!
culturehandy
her mother told her that she was being "violated" if she went for a pap? How about telling your friend that this is also a matter of personal health, i.e. informing her about cervical cancer?
dayglowpink
Thanks for the responses. I agree that I am making more of an emotional investment than he is. That's always been the way it has been with us, and I have dealt with many of these issues the whole time, so I'm not real worried about getting hurt now in particular. He is getting more emotionally involved as well, and I think that is terrifying to him on a mostly unconscious level. In the past couple of months I know that the sex has been more intense for him and less about just the physical, so perhaps he is pulling away from that as well. He has some serious issues about relationships, and he is still rather hung up on an ex that he had a very intense and long relationship with. maimy- that did not sound harsh, it's definitely true. As crinoline mentioned, I also had been thinking that it would probably be helpful for me to settle down a little bit and give him some space. This has really only been in the past two weeks or so, and I'm probably freaking out a lot over something that's definitely not like a 6 month pattern or something. It's really hard for me to relax and just let things be, so I have to work on that, too.
pollystyrene
Wow, crinoline, that's messed up. Does she use tampons? How is that any different? I assume her mother doesn't know she's sexually active?

I understand being reluctant to get a pelvic if you've been assaulted, but what it is with this blatant misinformation? Doesn't want her to be "violated"...what a load of crap. Good luck trying to convince her. Maybe her regular doctor can talk to her about it?

Inspiration to donate to Planned Parenthood's sex ed programs.
skinwithoutscars
it makes no sense to me that getting a pap smear would be getting "violated" while sex would not. and while her mom thinks it's a violation, her mom probably also thinks premarital sex (or whatever kind of sex she's engaging in) is wrong - your friend is clearly not her mother, because she is choosing to have sex. ergo, she needs to also choose to be an adult and take care of herself. also, it's great that none of her friends have gyno issues - but she doesn't have *their* bodies, now does she? no, she lives in *her* body and she gets to make the medical decisions to keep it safe and healthy. or not. would she rather go through 15-20 minutes of unpleasantness or a lifetime of childrearing? that's the basic choice at hand.

and with that, i'd like to rant. (and please note, humanist, though you mentioned this, what i am about to say is not about your friends' situation. i think you are being a really awesome, caring friend and i admire your committment to your friends' sexual health and future non-children.)

what is it with boys who go soft at the sight of condoms? i understand most of the time it is psychological. ergo, if i were a boy and this happened to me, i would spend a looonnngggg time trying to figure out how to deal with my issues around condoms. i would wank with condoms, shower with condoms, and generally play with them all the time til i felt comfortable with them, because i would think "hey! i'm never going to get laid if i can't have sex with condoms! and i respect women and myself and want everyone to stay healthy and not pregnant, so condoms it is!" it really bugs me how a lot of men just seem to adopt this totally "oh well" attitude about it, like, i tried, it didn't work, it's done now. hello? women do not want to pay money to be on fake hormones every month just because they might find you some random february to take home and shag, but apparently that is what these men expect, and that's just to prevent pregnancy, not even mentioning STIs. it's the sense of freaking defensiveness/entitlement that gets me. i understand it's embarassing, but DEAL with it, don't expect me to either A. put my health on the line, or B. shag you, with that kind of attitude! argh!
shinyx3
well put rant skin
_octinoxate
Word to that, skin! Another excuse that would NOT fly with me now (though it did when I was younger) was this idea of "I can't get off easily with a condom on"-- meanwhile, the fellow wouldn't have given me a SINGLE orgasm. Hello-? Gah.
sybarite
Word, skin. I agree with your recommended remedy/therapy for these boys too.

I will add that although generally if I've been faced with temporary impotence (too much drink or other issues) I take it in my stride, no biggie. But when a guy deflates automatically at the sight of a condom? Most. unsexy. thing. ever. It says so clearly that their pleasure is more important than my comfort or safety. So, seeya.

IME it's an age thing. Older guys whine more about using condoms than younger guys, who take it for granted.
lunasol
Hey, does anyone have any experience with sex toy parties? My friend wants to have one for her bacelorette party, but I've heard that they can be kinda cheesy. Any thoughts?
pollystyrene
The one I went to was kinda cheesy. I know there are ones that are nicer- I remember seeing them on Real Sex (that show on HBO), but this one had a lot of not-so-high-quality stuff (in fact, some downright scary stuff- weird creams that were supposed to heighten sensitivity, from China, with no ingredient list- oh yeah, I'll smear that right on!)

I'd just do some research about a few companies first and find out what kind of stuff they sell and the mood they try to create.
Kalevra
I know NOTHING about sex toy parties, but curiosity makes me think of the 'fly on the wall' scenario...be interesting to see the fun being had...mmmm

...I'm sorry, I digress....

With regard to the condom issue, as a guy I can say that I am definately not scared of them, but I hav had the odd occasion where I get soft, and I dunno why but on reflection, I reckon most times there was drink involved, even if it was a small amount.....that might be the catalyst. Having said that, on the occasions it has happened, I have not insisted we carry on without, or try without, thats just irresponsible, and downright rude.
One thing that I can say is that it can be a hectic passion killer, so the lighter side of the whole situation should make it a little less 'intimidating'. Sometimes I actually appreciate having the ol' rubber on, after long periods of no shags, I can be a victim of the old one-stroke-done thing.....the dulling of the senses can be effective in dealing with that. smile.gif One of the reasons I prefer to avoid the one night stands (I have plenty reasons, but I won't go down that road) is because of the condom issue.....when the relationship is stable, and medicals thoroughly done.....getting out of the jacket can be soo much better....

If guys use that excuse on them, tell them you have lockjaw....and no head will be given laugh.gif laugh.gif
culturehandy
In my experience with condoms, it's been the opposite. Older men are for it, it's the young bucks who seem to think they are invincible. It the older men who want to get me off, men in their 20's, generally, only care about getting themselves off.

*grumbles*

Luna, have you tried contacting any of your local sex shops to see if theycan recommend someone for a sex toy party?

Kal, I totally agree about ditching the condoms once you know you are in a committed, disease free relationship. But I certainly wouldn't sleep with anyone who didn't want to use a condom, the first few rounds. I mean, how many other people has your dick been inside. Um, not for me. Sure, we've ALL done it, but not on a regular basis.

LoveMyPugs
QUOTE(lunasol @ Apr 19 2007, 09:52 AM) *
Hey, does anyone have any experience with sex toy parties? My friend wants to have one for her bacelorette party, but I've heard that they can be kinda cheesy. Any thoughts?


Lunasol -

I threw a couples sex toy party over a year ago. Most companies won't do a party with both men and women. I had to find one that would. Pajama Parties is great. I guess you could call it cheesy but it was still sooo much fun. I had meatballs, rolls and a spiked punch. All the ladies brought a snack. I set up a card table for the speakers presentation. She played games with the group to get them warmed up. Then she passed around toys, creams, oils and things like that. Usually the hostest gets a percentage of the earnings towards free stuff. I got a glass dildo after I had my party that was like sixty dollars for free. Also, as the hostest you get free gifts. I went to one with all girls and it was really fun but having one with both guys and girls is ten times better. The guys are so funny. I'd recommend hosting one. Especially if you like to entertain like I do. All of my friends always ask when I'm having another. Take pictures. They are blackmail material later on. Some of the guests I thought would spend a ton of money bought nothing and then the shy ones spent over a hundred. If you check out a company online you can usually put in your zip code and someone from your area will email you back and you can ask questions and stuff. It really is a lot of fun.
dayglowpink
So the boy and I had a talk this morning. Turns out he has been frustrated, because he doesn't feel like I am into it when we are having sex. I am pretty reserved in general, and I'm pretty quiet in bed, and he's been feeling sorta neglected in that area. He feels like I am not enthusiastic and not having fun, which isn't true, but I can see how he would feel that way. He was perfectly open and awesome about talking about it, so that was good, but it's still hard for me. This is always a challenge for me, and particularly with him, because I feel like I have to be on my guard constantly so I don't get too attached or too emotionally involved. At least I have some information now, though, and some stuff I can work on, and I told him some stuff that I would like from him, too. I guess it'll be a process, but hopefully things will get better. Ugh, even though it's not technically a relationship, we still have to deal with all the relationship stuff, but I guess that's just the way it works sometimes!
Porn Star
All this talk about sex reminds me of this joke: A young couple was parked in the local lovers lane, steamed up windows, antenna shaking, and suddenly....... a flashlight shines into the window, and a cop tells the young man, "Get out of the car....."The young man complies and the cop says to him "I'll let you go on one condition.... that I am next.."The young man is so terrified that his knees are shaking. The cop notices this and says to him "What are you so shaken up about?"The young man replies, "I never made love to a cop before" laugh.gif
candycane_girl
dayglowpink, are you totally quiet, like no moaning or anything or do you just mean you don't say anything?

I wish I knew how to help, I've been told it's pretty obvious if I'm into it or not. I understand not wanting to get close to the guy, I'm in a situation like that but I feel like we can both be pretty open and honest and we know it's nothing more than sex.


I have a question of my own. I'm not sure if it should go in here or in the health thread. Everytime I have an orgasm lately I get the feeling like I'm having menstrual cramps. It used to happen once in a while if I had a really strong, powerful orgasm but now it happens just when I have a regular or small orgasm. It sucks. I usually like to get off a few times but now I have to stop after one. I just started a new birth control pill a few weeks ago so I don't know if that could somehow be related. Does anyone know anything about this? I'm so confused and I don't want to have to give up my orgasms!
culturehandy
I think in terms of sound, that many people (not all) have been conditioned on this, you have to moan like a porn star thing, and id you don't, then you aren't enjoying it.

Candy, I've heard of peole cramping during orgasm, but I've never heard of any follow up. Sorry sad.gif
dayglowpink
Yeah, I'm not totally silent or anything. I definitely make noise, but I'm not a screamer or anything. And I seem to have the worst time thinking of interesting things to say. Oh well, things seem to be better lately, so we'll see.
sybarite
Candycane, the same thing happens to me sometimes. If I remember rightly, this isn't totally uncommon and was discussed in here a few years(?) ago.

Even though cramping after an orgasm has happened to me on and off over the last 5 years or so, I still don't know how much help I will be. I've been to the doctor twice about this and am no wiser. For me, whether it happens or not is tied up with where I am in my cycle; if I'm close to starting my period it is more likely to happen. If the guy I'm with goes too deep it's more likely to happen. And, oddly (sorry if TMI) it can be tied up with my bowels as well; if they're sluggish or if I'm a bit constipated it is more likely to happen.

One explanation I've heard, from a doctor, is that cramping can happen if you have a tipped uterus.

What I've learned through experience is to try and relax before sex. Stating the obvious, of course, and 'trying' to relax isn't all that relaxing, if you know what I mean... but it's worked for me. For me, once I regulated some digestion problems (bloating, too much gas etc) it helped a lot too.

Having these cramps has been anywhere from mildly uncomfortable to outright painful for me, but I always tell myself that the cramps will subside eventually, and they always do. If they're bad try lying on your side, fairly still but relaxed: that can help them to pass more quickly.

I would definitely recommend you see your gynecologist and try to go after a period. They told me once that going then provides a clearer picture for an examination.

It is especially annoying because I'm like you: I don't like to stop at just one!
culturehandy
dayglow, what exactly does he expect? I know that I'm loud, but during anal, I get quiet, men interpret that as me not liking it, but it's not true...I just like gentle anal sex, and gentle sex is quieter sex to me.

As for dirty talk, just say what comes to you. It took me a long time to be confortable with raunch, now when I am coming, the dirtier the better, then I'll come hard!
embraceME
I'm 18. I've been having sex since I was 16. I've never actually liked the feeling, but I usually just do it anyway. I don't do it very often, but when I do it takes about 3 minutes at least to get even the 'head' in. It's a lot of pain and it hurts throughout. I also feel as though I need to pass gas when they penetrate. Could you explain to me what the pain is and why I feel I have to fart?

It's weird..but I'm still confused..

Just figured I'd ask somebody.
Arcadia
QUOTE(embraceME @ Apr 30 2007, 08:35 PM) *
I'm 18. I've been having sex since I was 16. I've never actually liked the feeling, but I usually just do it anyway. I don't do it very often, but when I do it takes about 3 minutes at least to get even the 'head' in. It's a lot of pain and it hurts throughout. I also feel as though I need to pass gas when they penetrate. Could you explain to me what the pain is and why I feel I have to fart?

It's weird..but I'm still confused..

Just figured I'd ask somebody.


First, welcome to Bust!

Do you use any lubricant when you have sex? I've only been having sex for about 5 years now and even though I'm wet during sex it still hurts unless I use lube. I think I might just be really tight (not that I'm complaining) but you might have the same problem. If I don't use lube my boyfriend can't get in me at all without putting me through intense pain (seriously, when we ran out of lube and had no money we didn't have sex in weeks). I find that the lube really helps. Also, I know you said that it takes a while just to get the head of the penis in, but maybe go even slower than that. It also helps if you have a lot of foreplay before actual intercourse. It will "warm you up" so to speak, and put you in the mood. It seems like you're not very interested in sex and that might also be the cause of the pain. You don't want to do it so your body isn't into it, therefore making it painful. It could also be the total opposite - sex is painful so you're not interested.

I can't really tell you anything about the gas thing . . . . I don't know what could be the cause of that but someone else in the forum might. There are a lot of knowledgeable individuals here!

I hope that helped a little. If you have any other questions, don't hesitate to ask! biggrin.gif
embraceME
Thanks..

I'll try that next time.

I'll be sure to report..ha

Laters
dayglowpink
ch- I don't know what the fuck he expects. Probably for me to be his ex-girlfriend whom he is totally hung up on, ha. This issue is so complicated, and there is so much to it for me that it would take a novel to explain it all. That's interesting what you said about anal, though, because I kinda have the same thing at times. I feel like it takes a lot of concentration for me to have anal, and I get into a zoned out state, because the feelings are so intense. I think it might be somewhat common, because in most porn I have seen with anal or DP, the girl gets this almost drunken faraway look in her eyes. Anyway, I thought of you yesterday, because I saw a license plate that said "LE SIGH", and you always say that on the boards. smile.gif
candycane_girl
Thanks a lot syb. I was starting to wonder what the hell is wrong with me and every time I looked up "orgasm" and "cramps" I kept getting results for sites about pregnancy (I guess it's a common occurence for pregnant women). The thing is, the only time I've been having orgasms is by myself and it's just through plain old clitoral stimulation. Like I said, I am on a new birth control pill so I don't know if that might have something to do with it.


Also, it's funny that you mentioned the bowel thing because I noticed it was going from the feeling of menstrual cramps to also feeling like I had to, y'know, go.


Another weird thing is that I finally masturbated with my rabbit knockoff and I didn't get the cramps. It was almost like having something inside me seemed to help. Sometimes I really wonder what is going on with my body.
tyger
so, the boything and i had sex this weekend (our first time together and my first time in general). and, y'know, it kinda hurt, but i was okay with that and expecting it anyway, and so in my mind it's no big deal and at some point it will stop hurting (and it's not like it really hurt all that much to begin with, it was more an uncomfortable feeling than anything else). unfortunately, i think the boything had it built up in his mind as...i don't even know what he was expecting it to be, but he feels bad because it wasn't like, earth-shatteringly great, and he's all hung up on the physical sensation aspect of it more than the fact that *he* was the one i wanted to have sex with, and the important part was that he was sweet about it and gentle and listened to me if i asked him to slow down or stop or whatever. and we talked about it and i thought it was all talked over and better.

and then there was last night. we were in bed and making out/messing around like we have been for months. except it was like it was when we first started getting to the bits where we lacked clothing. it was back to the oral sex being great for the few minutes that it lasted, all the touching being awkward, etc. i asked him about it and he claimed he was tired, and i told him that i knew that wasn't it and we could talk in the morning. so, i asked him again this morning what was up, and he said that he doesn't 'feel confident' anymore since how stuff went friday. stuff i thought we had talked out. and i just don't know what else i can say to him to make him realize that everything /was/ great, and i wouldn't have changed how it went, and that for god's sake i just want everything to be the same except sometimes now our messing around will lead to sex. does anyone have any ideas?
opheliathemuse
Sex takes practice. It just does. Always, and for everyone. Nobody tells you this, but it's true. It's also kind of cool, because sex takes hard work together--it's like a flower garden. It's a little disheartening at first, but man, it's fun to play around if you don't take it seriously. O. and I had some problems at first, and I'm 25, he's 31. Age has nothing to do with it. Compatibility, emotions, and mental place have everything to do with it. Sex isn't a race. Go at a rate that is comfortable to both you AND your partner, explore things which you are both interested in, don't focus on orgasming. As far as the hurty bit, either get him to fnger you gently a bit more to familiarize you with the sensation while you relax with your eyes shut, or do the opposite of kegels--relax outwards as hard as you can.
culturehandy
I second ophelia's advice.

as for sex hurting, it happens to all of us. I've had my fair share of sex, and even if I'm nice and turned on, plaything of the moment has still enter my slow.
lapis
Tyger,
There are lots of ways you could approach it. Here are some ideas.
1. Do what you are good at together (oral sex, rubbng, etc.) and remind each other of how much you love it when you...whatever. Don't let sex overtake what already works.
2. Remind yourself and him that it's not only a skill but an interactive one--you get to learn about these deep parts of each other's bodies--and that can take months and years--it's a journey and you can let him know you are ready for it. (Even seasoned sexers have to learn to work their bodies and their partners' in new relationships. The amazing thing is that it just gets better--you won't have sex like you did before. Every sensation can be new but this takes being open-minded and sensual. Do you look into each other's eyes? It can be a really intense way fo feeling that bond and growth.)
4. Fantasize together about what you want it to feel like and be like. Hard or soft? Will you wear clothes? Will you sweat? Where? You can create reality by imagining it and steaming things up.
3. If you feel comfortable, take the wheel. Get on top and tell him how good it's going to feel. Sometimes feigning confidence makes confidence and brings you out of his headspace.
Personally, more analysis wouldn't help me in this situation. Going home, getting bent over and fucked would be the solution. Doing might be the best kind of communication here. Good luck.
crinoline
tyger- I don't think there is a thing in this world more fragile than a boything's ego.
Most guys seem to think that they should be able to make a woman explode into orgasmic bliss with a single touch, and if/when that doesn't happen they can lose some confidence. (Yes, I know, massive over-generalization, sorry.) Crinoboy and I had some awkwardness after our first time (my first ever), I think guys just have penetrative sex built up as some end-all be-all in their minds. My first time was very painful, and I think Crinoboy felt a little helpless, which makes him act weird and angry. He was a little less confident and less aggressive (sexually) after the first time, but eventually (and fairly quickly) things went back to normal, and got even better.
Your boything may be feeling guilt for causing you pain, or disappointment because he probably expected sex to be mutually enthralling and satisfying (which it will be...with practice).
Just keep communicating and expressing affection in your normal way. Make sure he knows that you aren't in any way disappointed in him or his performance. If you act like everything is normal, and not like some huge relationship bomb went off, things should settle down.
Good luck!!
DaisyJane
Everyone here seems to be giving you good advice on it.
It will get better with time and practice. Ive been sexually active for like 8 years or something and I shudder to think of what I was like back then. Even 5,4,3 years ago. I think of some of my partners and am like "Oh god, if I could just go back and show them that Im not that bad at sex anymore!"

Not saying your bad right now, lol. By any means.

But sex was really awkward and painful for awhile. Years. And even when it wasnt painful it was just weird. Kinda gross. Not very emotional. Boring or scary.

And now, as an adult, I live with my boyfriend and we have the best sex life ever. Once you get more comfortable with sex youll start to branch out and see if you like bondage stuff, roleplay, dirty talk, or even none of the above. You get more confident with your body and what you can do with it.

I promise, it gets better. Keep at it and just know that the awkwardness or pain isnt anything out of the ordinary.
culturehandy
I think that when you are younger, you don't really know what you want, and in exploration you are, at a young age, afraid to tell your partner what you want for fear that they will be weirded out.

I didn't tell my partners that I was into having any anal play until I was in my 20's. Heck, even with my ex who I was with, I was worried what he would think when I told him I liked having fingers stuck in my ass. and now, there still aren't very many people I tell what I am into. I am comfortable with myself sexually, but some people are judgemental.
tyger
thanks for the advice, it's all been really great. i get that it's maybe painful and awkward right now but will get better, but it's like the boything thinks somehow there is something he could do but hasn't thought of that will magically jump us past the awkward phase. i think i'll just have to reassure him (again) that everything was exactly what i wanted, and then probably pin him to the bed and make him beg me for things.
glassk
You know what I want right now? more sex! laugh.gif I am getting “angry” at my sometimes-lover

1. Why does he have to be so hot. AND have facial hair. I hate facial hair! actually.... i have gotten to the point of being sortof bored by his body now- because he doesn’t put out enough-- but then i talk to him and everything he says I think first, “i want to fuck you because you’re smart.” and second, what I’m going to say in reply to whatever he’s talking about.......

2. Unprotected sex..... that’s so not how I operate. But apparently, I do. Um....... yeah. I so have to put condoms in my purse. I’m not impressed with that - for him or myself.

3. I’m horny. Right now. And he is. Not. Here.

4. He’s not my boyfriend....... OH I”M GOING TO END UP HEARTBROKEN

5. Did I mention I’m horny. And I think of him when I think of sex, but I am NOT getting enough sex out of him, so that isn’t really great.


holy crap. sex runs my life. i often think if i got ENOUGH of it, I would be able to move on to more creative endeavors. You know, a good fuck in the morning, another at night, and in between I’d get other stuff done......

I needed to rant somewhere.... and this seemed to be the best thread. I hope!

Tyger, keep us posted..... haha.... sounds good!
culturehandy
Glass, welcome to my world. If I could have sex 2 or 3 times a day, at least, I'd be very happy. But, alas, there just aren't enough hours in the day.
dayglowpink
glassk- I hear you, too! I am in a situation sorta like that with my boy. It's not a relationship, but we have sex and hang out all the time. But, when we first met, we didn't hang out much, just got together for sex, basically. I was constantly frustrated and angry that he wouldn't come do it to me more often. I still have the issues with worrying about getting hurt, but I'm more used to it now, and also we are at a different place now than we were at first. We made a deal shortly after we started hooking up that we would have unprotected sex with each other but not with other people, and that has worked out okay, I think. I totally feel you with what you are saying about associating sex with him. I have that, too, but actually what helped me a lot when things were pretty weird between us was finding some other dudes to hook up with. That reminded me that I could be attracted to and have fun with other people besides him.

I have decided that I should do Kegels whenever I am on Bust. That will give me a little distraction from the weird feeling and help remind me to do it, too.
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