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EllaMinnowPea
QUOTE(crashedyellow @ Nov 30 2006, 01:26 PM) *

Neither option is perfect, and that's why I'm having such a hard time deciding.


And both options are enormous leaps. I see why you turned to a board for advice!

You know what? You'll figure things out, regardless of what you choose.

Why not consider these as two separate questions without turning them into an either/or scenario? Do you want to marry Jeff? Figure that out first. Then think about approaching Nicole.

Break it down instead of feeling overwhelmed. You can talk to Nicole again without moving to start things up with her again. You don't have to choose her over your fiance - that puts an enormous amount of pressure on your potential relationship. I don't want you to be disappointed.

And this baby business... well, where do you want to raise a child? And where will you be happiest? I urge you to think about yourself first, as strange as that sounds, because you're going to be a much happier mother if you're happy before you become a mother.

Best of luck, my dear!
opheliathemuse
um, I spose I didn't know where else to post this. But how are you supposed to know if a guy really means it when he says he wants to see you again? I went on a 7 hour date with a guy and he said we'd have to go again, in order to see more of the attraction we went to see. I agreed, and he said it again later on in the evening, again with me agreeing. He hasn't contacted me. What the heck?
_octinoxate
A 7-hour date? He obviously digs you. If he brought up hanging out again two different times, he thinks the ball is in your court to make it happen. Go for it and have fun!
nickclick
i'd have to agree, if he did the asking out first, then it's your turn. either way, asking him out is the only way to know if he wants to or not! have fun!
amy9roo
Really need some advice from rational, SANE people (as this is not what I have been lately)...

After six months of having a passionate, fun, and comfortable relationship with my boyfriend, I decided I loved him. Unfortunately, we had some stress in the form of health problems at this point and began to fight.

I would get upset and cry often, which was not my style. I didn’t tell him I loved him because I didn’t want it to sound contrived. Sex began to dwindle (he didn’t want to have sex until we knew more about the health issue); we had a very bad fight at the end of August where he told me he needed space. He called me the next day to tell me he was thinking about me all day and was very upset. I went to his house and was acting in response to the night before-a bit cold; I told him I was scared that I would get hurt and he told me he would never hurt me. He just wanted to be able to feel how we feel. We had passionate, loving sex and I thought things had been somewhat resolved.

I called him two days later and he was cold to me. I called him again the next day and he was again cold to me. I asked him what was going on and he told me he needed space and didn’t know how he felt about me. I got very upset and felt it was because of the health issue (which was only one week old at this point). He told me he’d call me in two days and I told him to take his space and not call me. He called and another fight happened. I was very upset and called him the next day looking to pick another fight. It was a bad one; he then told me he was going out with his friend and two girls. I told him that we needed to resolve this the next day. He said he didn’t know if he had time. I told him to make time. I saw him the next day and we talked about how things could be good again and again had very passionate sex. When it came time for me to leave he couldn’t decide whether he wanted me to stay or go. I ended up getting a bit irritated and leaving.

He then continued to call for the next couple of days and we saw each other and had a really good time until it came time for me to stay or go when he told me he was confused. He then invited me and uninvited me to his parents house for a Labor Day picnic. I got angry and told him not to make plans with me and then change his mind, especially at this point. We didn’t talk for a few days. We went out to eat and things were obviously tense between us. We didn’t talk for several more days.

I called him a few days later and told him I missed him and would like to see him that night. He said he’d call. He didn’t; I called him again and told him I wanted to see him. I went to his house and we hung out for a while. Things weren’t looking good. I ended up telling him I couldn’t feel the way I’d been feeling and needed to break up. He asked me if this was really what I wanted and I told him no, but I couldn’t stay on the rollercoaster. I told him I had fallen in love with him and was very upset and crying. He told me not worry, that I was an attractive girl. That made me even more upset. He then said things might not be permanent and that he would call me in two weeks. This was September 10.

I ended up calling him a week later and seeing him. We talked, I thought things were closed. Two weeks after that I had a surgery and since it had a lot to do with him I expected him to call. Nothing. I lost it. I called him and we talked for about an hour. I told him about my surgery and that I had been scared, had wished he had called, etc. I told him I thought I had made a mistake and he told me not to think like that. We both admitted that we had been dating but that it hadn’t meant anyting. I told him I missed him and that I would like to see him. He said he’d like to see me as well. We emailed each other back and forth for a few days and he told me he’d like to get a drink later in the week. I called him and asked him to lunch. He never called back. I emailed him a few days later and told him that him making plans and then not following through puts me back at the beginning. I asked him if there was anything left for me. No response.

A few days later on my way home from work I lost it. I stopped by his house unannounced; I demanded he give me closure and why he hadn’t called me. He said he didn’t want to give me the wrong idea. No other answers. Instead, he was very affectionate and kissing and touching and telling me how pretty I am and his parents liked me, etc. He told me loved me. I asked him to ask me to stay and he said no, that it wasn’t fair to me.

The next day I again flipped out and did the same thing. This time he was not affectionate and was very irritated. I acted like a nut…crying, not making sense. He told me he didn’t care about me anymore and that I needed to move on. But then again told me that things might not be permanent. I told him that no, that wasn’t working for me. That if we were done it was forever. He got angry and I left. This was October 13.

I felt very stupid the following week and called him on the 18th to apologize. He told me he was over it and to move on. I told him I cared about him and that I wanted to be friends. He said he needed space to decide if we could be friends. He called me on the 30th. I told him I had been feeling pretty down without him and that I hadn’t been sleeping very well. He asked me if I had been sleeping well when we were together and if he had broken down my ‘shell’. He told me he wanted to see me that week but that he didn’t want it to mess me up more. He told me he didn’t want to give me the wrong idea. Against my better judgement I agreed.

I saw him on the November 2. Started by giving him a big hug and thanking him for calling me; told him it made me feel good. He began touching and kissing and being affectionate like before. I was very confused. But left his house on a good note. About 1 hour later I got very upset and angry that he was playing with me and called him and told him how cruel what he was doing was. I told him I needed time and would call him in a couple of weeks. Well, that didn’t happen. I called him on the 6th and lost it. I told him everything I’d been feeling and asked him why he had been affectionate…was he lonely? Did he want to get me in bed? He said no, he just wanted to touch me. I was so confused.

No contact until November 25. I called him and told him I was thinking about him. How was the holiday, etc. I kept it civil and friendly and told him I missed him.

Tried to get together with him for football but it didn’t happen. Went out to eat with him on November 30. Talked very positive about how we missed each other. He said he was lonely, dating someone but didn’t think there was a future, she is 36 and he is 29. Told me he had dreamt about me, mom had asked about me. Marriage was brought up and he said that everyone wants to find someone to marry. I told him that it wasn’t neccesarily true and he asked me ‘If I had asked you to marry me you would have said no?’. I told him it didn’t matter anymore anyway and he responded with ‘Rome wasn’t built in a day’. At the end of the night I asked him if we could be friends and see where it goes. He said he didn’t know what would happen but it wouldn’t happen overnight.

I was totally confused and decided I couldn’t do this anymore. Was totally jealous of other girl. Couldn’t concentrate on anything. Didn’t know what was going on. So stressed out. Impatient. I needed to know what his intentions were and I couldn't wait and see. Called him Sunday and asked him if he was confused and if he was sure we were done forever or for now. I told him that if he wasn’t sure I would wait and we’ll see what happens. But if he was sure he needed to tell me now. He told me he was 99% sure we were never getting back together. But followed it with saying that Jordan said the same thing about basketball and look what happened there.

Oh it gets worse...

I ended up seeing him on Sunday (December 10th). He told me he didn’t want me to get hurt again. He talked about the new girl and I got very upset again. Wasn’t ready for this. I knew it was a mistake to see him. Only have been upset and fragile when it comes to him. Missing him like crazy. Ended up leaving bar and breaking down again. Cried with him for 30 minutes and he told me he didn’t want to see me again, there was no point. He said he wouldn’t answer my phone calls and didn’t want me to come to his house. He told me to call him in 2 months when I was better. Got in a very angry and crazy fight. I grabbed my phone and deleted his phone number and told him I wished I had never loved him and that I didn’t want to love him anymore. He held me and told me he sees me and answers my calls because he cares about me. He calmed me down a bit. I told him I missed him so much and he asked what I missed. He was touching me and being loving. We talked about how nice things had been between us. He said he didn’t want me to love him anymore. He told me he needed a few days to think about things and that I should respect that. I told him I would but asked what if he didn’t call? His response: well my number is deleted.

What the Hell do i do now? Did I ruin things beyond repair? Have I been completely crazy? What is up with the mixed signals?

So stressed out over this guy...who can't make any kind of decision. Why does love make us so nuts?

Help ladies!!
p_176
i'm sorry this guy is messing with your emotions like that. there were so many red flags going on as i was reading this post....he was not there for you when you had surgery, he goes back and forth between being cold and loving, you are BOTH dating other people....maybe don't worry so much about what HE wants from YOU but worry about what you want - regardless of how he feels. chances are - once you realize what kind of relationship you want, you'll realize that you are not getting that from this guy.
roseviolet
Amy, do you really want to spend your life with someone who will tell you one day that he loves you and then, the very next day will tell you that he doesn't care about you anymore? Of course you don't want that. Therefore, you don't want this guy.

If there is any way you can sever all ties to this man, please do it. Don't call him and don't frequent the places where you know you'll find him. I know that this will be very painful for a while - believe me, I know! - but it's obvious that your heart has been wounded deeply and every time you see him or talk to him, it just makes those wounds deeper. Just take some time to focus on you and your friends and family. You could even spend more time here in The Lounge! The people here are very fun and supportive & were an absolute god-send when my old boyfriend and I broke up a number of years ago.

One last tip: In your cell phone's address book, change his name in your directory so that it says something along the lines of "Don't answer this call!" or "You deserve SO much better!" That way if he decides to call you (because it's Christmas or whatever), you will get a lovely reminder/affirmation and you won't be so tempted to speak to him.

Best of luck to you, dear. Stick around The Lounge!
auralpoison
Whoa! Back the fuck out of that, Amy! It sounds to me like you need a little "me" time to get your head/heart together because that is some seriously manipulative game going on there. Rose is on tip. ALL contact MUST be severed. I gave up a whole part of town for TWO YEARS once to stay away from an evil headfucker.

I'm also a little worried about the accuracy of your dating events. It's obvious this has been tearing you to bits if you're so torn up you've got that going on. Have you considered talking to a professional for a few months? I had a pretty serious situation go down a few months back & found it helpful to talk to somebody objective about it. It can help.
amy9roo
Thanks for the thoughts.

I know...no more contact, no answering his calls (if he ever calls again after the scene I made). Wow is it hard to do.

Aural...it has been ripping me up, has ruled my emotions and thoughts since September. That's way too long to be healthy breakup mourning. Just don't get it. The guy has been so unclear. Every time I think something good will happen I am shortly crushed back down. Has been so dragged out. Ridiculous.
auralpoison
Sweetie, you haven't even *started* the mourning period yet. You're not even close if he's got you enumerating the dates of incidents & still obsessing over conversations from the past several months. He's dragging it out & you're still hooked. And you seem to *want* to maintain some kind of relationship with him even if it's fucked up, bad for you & not what you want. Do you really want a relationship based on his terms?

"What the Hell do i do now? Did I ruin things beyond repair? Have I been completely crazy? What is up with the mixed signals?"

1.) You move on. It's hard & it sucks, but clearly he is no longer interested & he's a shit for giving you hope when he knows for a fact that he isn't coming back unless he can't find anybody else. You need to decide what you really want & what's BEST for you emotionally.

2.) Things are beyond repair, but I think it was a fifty/fifty thing. You both screwed up in tandem. He went shady gamer pseudo-ex, you went off the deep end-ex. And sometimes we're not even meant to be friends. To quote Dismemberment Plan, "It seems kinda weird, they made each other feel like they could die / But couldn't stay the slightest of friends." It's not meant to be, so you have to let go. Now it's just a matter of damage control.

3.) You have been acting crazy. But he has contributed to that. If he hadn't been playing Jedi mindtricks you never would have shown up on his doorstep (Not once, but TWICE, tsk!) flipping out. He gave you no concrete answers & loved you up likely because he didn't want a scene. He doesn't want you back, but he doesn't want you boiling his bunny either. Then he was mean because he didn't want to have to go through it all again in less than twenty-four hours. He probably thought he had you assuaged for a few days at least.

4.) Yes, he's been giving you mixed messages, but the ones that seem most concrete are the "I don't want to see you anymore" ones. The rest are just BS. The whole we're "99% over" thing is what it is. it's over. Ya'll have a better chance of being struck by lightning or being stung to death by bees than making this work. Besides, anybody that compares your relationship with MJ's return to the planks is a DICK of the highest order. Really. Does he think he's the king of love like Jordan was king of basketball? I CALL BULLSHIT! Sounds to me like he's jr high B team quality towel boy at best. Good riddance to bad rubbish.

Some people like to play the "I don't want to date you anymore, but I don't entirely want to let you go 'cause I've got you eating out of my palm," game. He treats you like shit, but you still come running back. Yeah, you start making demands & acting nutso, but a few kind words & pets & you're docile & want him back again. As long as you let him have that kind of power, he's going to exploit it to the hilt. In the immortal words of Dan Savage, "Dump the motherfucker already!" You'll be better for it.
sybarite
Amy, I have to agree with everything AP laid out below. We have all acted a little crazy in these kinds of situations--I know I've wigged out big-time over a boy--but that doesn't mean you can't stop, as of now.

You should stop second-guessing what he's saying to you, trying to find other meanings. If was able and willing to be in a proper relationship with you he would be doing what he could to make that happen. He isn't. End of story. You will meet someone who is happy to have a full-on relationship with you, but for now you need to move on from this one. So cut off all contact; block his number so he can't ring you, get your friends around you and look after yourself.

The Moving On thread has good advice too. Take it easy on yourself but be strong and don't talk to him again.



amy9roo
Girls, thank you so much for the support. This has been pretty tough on me.

The hardest part is hearing and knowing and admitting all of these things you guys are pointing out. We all know I only wanted (and yes, no lies, still want) to believe the good. Give him time, he misses you, he just can't do it now, and god knows what else I've told myself. Been trying to prove to him I love him and should mean something to him; that is so wrong.

I can't believe I allowed him to have this much power over me and my emotions. He knew it and that's why this has gone on for so long.

I really wanted to call him yesterday and today and explain things again. I didn't. Baby steps.
Sststststutter
amy, 6 months from now you'll be looking back on this situation saying, "i can't even believe that's how i felt!" you'll be saying that because you'll be so over him and you will have fully realized that he was playing games with you and that he wasn't what you truely deserve. good job for not calling him; i know how hard that is but you have to stick to it. resisting the urges to call is so difficult at first, but in about a week, it is barely an itch, and by the end of the month, you won't even consider it an option. keep it up!
edie52
So, this is way random but I didn't know where else to post it.

I have this feeling like in every new relationship I take on the role of my ex from my previous relationship. In high school I was very in love with a guy who adored me. He complimented me all of the time, especially on my artistic endeavors and my intelligence. He thought I was awesome, and I knew he would never break up with me. In the end I broke up with him because I wanted to move on, try new things (read: people) and to have more autonomy.

About a year after that I met a boy and felt pretty much the same way my ex felt about me. We fell in love and were together for over 2 years (same amount of time as high school boy), but I was always the one trying to impress him, giving him compliments, buying him stuff, and in the end he broke up with me because he liked someone else and wanted more independance.

For the past year I've been wary of dating, not wanting to get into another unbalanced relationship (although my 2 previous relationships were mostly positive). So now I've been seeing this guy for a month, and already I see the patterns emerging- I'm acting the same way my last ex did when he was with me- wanting to remain autonomous, worried about a relationship affecting my productivity, and I'm also the one who's less interested in sex. Weird, eh?

So is this some kind of self-fulfilling prophecy, or is it kind of normal? Or am I just over-analyzing what are actually totally common issues of imbalance in relationships?
maimy
It is totally normal, and it is a self-fulfilling prophecy! Funny how often we do combine those things. If I guessed from my own experience, I'd bet you're working through some unresolved guilt about the first relationship by casting yourself in your ex's role in subsequent situations. Of course, until you absolve yourself of whatever it is that continues eating at you (or even just silently nibbling, nibbling - sometimes, guilt is not catastrophic in scope ... hence the difficulty in dealing with it sometimes), the issue feeding this dynamic isn't going to be resolved either, and the behavior will probably go on.

Ask yourself if there is anything you truly regret about the original relationship, how you handled it. If there is something that you can't let go of, that you did or even that the ex did, try to put your finger on it, hold it down, and interrogate its little niggling, impossible-to-exorcise ass into submission. Closure may come in a form you don't expect, but forgiving yourself for something that obliges you to take on the role of someone you may view as your own "victim" requires figuring out what your infraction was, so you can stop yourself from subjecting yourself to the same exposure to someone else.

(Or I could just be chock full of psychobabble. The migraine currently eating away at ME may have misread the situation ...)
momo
hey edie, i've noticed something similar in my own dating history. my high school boyfriends were all more into me, and then i reacted by going for someone who was the more independent one and ended up dumping me. then i reacted to him by going for another guy who worshipped me, etc etc etc. back and forth.

the good news is that i think over the past eight years or so (i'm 25), i've been progressing toward a happy medium. i recognize when someone i've started dating is way too passive/worshipful or way too withholding, and tend to abandon those relationships sooner, and now gravitate toward people with whom i have a more balanced relationship. i'm not saying the power issue ever goes away, but i'm hoping it keeps improving as i mature and get better at relationships.

in my best relationship yet, we rotated being the slightly more powerful one. for a few months he would feel insecure about something in his life, and i would become more important to him. i would be less attracted to him without his usual confidence, and my eye would wander. then eventually he would work through whatever, and maybe then i would be dealing with something hard and being weird and he would be less attracted. usually we were both close enough to the middle to have fun and enjoy each other, though.

so, anyway, maybe if you're being reactive and going back and forth, start thinking of it as a process of constantly approaching the (maybe mythical) perfectly balanced relationship? i don't have any tips for preventing the power imbalance once you notice it happening, though. good luck!
edie52
Yeah, Maimy, I guess I do still feel a little guilty about the way I ended things with my first bf. For one thing, it was over the phone, which is pretty harsh considering the length and seriousness of our relationship, but we were living in different cities at the time. He was really upset and surprised, and I wasn't that upset because I'd already come to terms with it. I still see him on occassion, but I don't want to bring it up because it was so long ago. Also, after we broke up, he left school and moved back in with his folks, where he still lives 5 years later. I know I shouldn't blame myself for this, but it's hard not to.

Ever since I got dumped last year I have only been dating guys who were more into me and pursued me, because I'm afraid of getting hurt again, and also because I was still clinging to hope of getting back with my ex. I've dated a few guys but always ended up breaking it off. I'm also of the belief that the complications of a relationship are only worth it if you're crazy about each other.

The guy I'm with now definitely pursued me, and probably likes me more, if only because I played hard to get in the beginning, which set up the power balance (maybe he's right in being insecure, he doesn't know it but after our first date I decided I probably just wanted to be friends). But he was pretty determined and I've decided we're pretty compatible (I'm definitely attracted to him and think he's kind and understanding). So now I find myself at what's probably the beginning of a relationship, one that I want to be well-balanced and healthy.
emmabove

One last tip: In your cell phone's address book, change his name in your directory so that it says something along the lines of "Don't answer this call!" or "You deserve SO much better!" That way if he decides to call you (because it's Christmas or whatever), you will get a lovely reminder/affirmation and you won't be so tempted to speak to him.

What great advice! I have been trying to wean myself off of a guy who has been sending me mixed signals for a year. I like him a lot, we have fantastic phone conversations, he's funny and is a good listener, etc., but has reiterated that he is a confirmed bachelor. We tried the friends with benefits thing for a while, but it wasn't enough for me. I told him to leave me alone; then, in a drunken and lonely moment of weakness, called him (it was that kind of compulsion that I feel when I don't have any cigarettes and am looking around in the ashtray for butts)-- with a predictable outcome. This pattern has repeated itself numerous times, almost to the point of absurdity. I erased his name from my cell phone address book, but then of course when he texted me, his number was back in there. Now I've re-entered his number and the name it goes along with corresponds to something about him that I find really, really dorky. I won't mention it here, but it's totally dorky, and every time he calls, I'll be reminded of what really lurks beneath the aloof facade... 100% dweeb.


curiouskat6
I have a bit of an issue that is no big deal but for some reason its really bothering me.

The boyfriend wasn't in the best of moods last night after giving blood earlier yesterday and then having an energy drink and a glass of wine later on last night. He became really tired at about 9:30, kept telling me that he was going to kick me out at 10:30, he says that every time that I come over...He didnt kick me out, I stayed and I lied down on the couch and he lied down next to me and put his arms around me making me stuck, so I had to try to escape...it was all in good fun. He started to tickle me, I am very ticklish and after awhile I was telling him to stop, please stop and laughing while I was saying this but he wouldnt stop, I would grab his hands away but he is stronger than me so of course I lost.

Now someone please tell me what words during a time like the above are to not be said and if they are the mood will be shot?
I can tell you one word to never say, and when I said this I was totally kidding, not serious for one second, I think I said this because saying "stop, please seriously stop" didn't work.

I said the "R" word (rape) ohmy.gif and as soon as I said this the mood was gone, he said that is not funny, I take it seriously. He said that if anyone heard that they could call the cops and I could go straight to jail. As soon as I said the word though I said kidding kidding, just joking, I'm sorry. I apologized numerous times. So after lying there with him on the floor hiding for about 20 minutes I decided to go, I feel like I overstayed my welcome and that the next time he plans on kicking me out at a certain time, I will leave at that time, period.

I wrote him a note saying that I was sorry and that I shouldn't have said the word, and that I loved him, he just lied on the floor the entire time that I was writing the note, I was trying not to cry thats why I left when I did, I showed my self out and balled all the way home.

Sometimes relationships aren't perfect, I wasn't expecting mine to be but so far in the 5.5 months that we have been together we have never ended on a bad note like this where he didn't say one word to me and if I touched him he said "I'm good, seriously, I'm good"

I lost sleep because of what happened last night, its just like me to kill the mood, I've done it before, even with friends, I guess I'm good at killing the mood, I'm a mood killer. sad.gif mad.gif

I don't know what I want to be told out of this situation by any of you fellow busties, but if you have any advice of how I should feel about it, should I get over it, etc. I would greatly appreciate it. Share experiences where the mood was killed for some reason or another, I just needed to vent this to someone. Thank you for reading.

amy9roo
Well ladies,

It happened again...
He called me Friday, Sunday (3x), and Monday (2x) over Xmas weekend. I saw him Xmas night for a couple of hours and of course, I thought we had a nice time. He was very affectionate and was kissing my hand, touching my hair, playful, kissing me, and generally making me feel nice. No sex, just (what I thought) was affection. Important point: He initiated everything. He knows exactly how I feel about him because all of my cards are face up on the table and have been for months.

Of course with his affections I was bursting with love for him. He gives a little then boom, I'm right back in love, then explosion, he takes it away with a vengeance...the night after Xmas I went shopping late at Victoria's Secret...getting quite ahead of myself but literally floating around. On my way home I pass his house and to my surprise, he has a girl over. Wasn't angry or hurt, just felt hollow inside. Felt convienient and insignificant.

The other day, after not hearing from him, I was so angry and called him and told him I was sick of him giving me just enough to keep me around and that it isn't right to screw with someone's emotions like this. He told me he isn't ready for a relationship right now with anyone and he's not into me 'right now'. He said he cares about me. He said he is so miserable he can't give anyone anything. I asked him if that's the case then why he was dating. He said he isn't seeing anyone. I guess I would have lied to me too.

Yesterday, in a haze of desperation, I called and told him I was sick of talking relationships and apologized for getting ugly the night before and just wanted to be able to feel what we feel and let things happen how they will or won't. I told him I didn't expect a relationship from him and simply wanted to feel close with him. I told him how nice I felt on Xmas and that things felt good again. He said he thought things were weird. He said he isn't attracted to me anymore and needs space. He said he'll call me in February.

Nice.

I am a dipshit. First of all, I feel like Xmas was a test and I failed. Second of all, I think it's weak and embarrassing that I let this happen again. I have been unbelievably depressed because of this and really, it's my own fault.

No more contact, I've had enough.

HELP.

Well ladies,

It happened again...
He called me Friday, Sunday (3x), and Monday (2x) over Xmas weekend. I saw him Xmas night for a couple of hours and of course, I thought we had a nice time. He was very affectionate and was kissing my hand, touching my hair, playful, kissing me, and generally making me feel nice. No sex, just (what I thought) was affection. Important point: He initiated everything. He knows exactly how I feel about him because all of my cards are face up on the table and have been for months.

Of course with his affections I was bursting with love for him. He gives a little then boom, I'm right back in love, then explosion, he takes it away with a vengeance...the night after Xmas I went shopping late at Victoria's Secret...getting quite ahead of myself but literally floating around. On my way home I pass his house and to my surprise, he has a girl over. Wasn't angry or hurt, just felt hollow inside. Felt convienient and insignificant.

The other day, after not hearing from him, I was so angry and called him and told him I was sick of him giving me just enough to keep me around and that it isn't right to screw with someone's emotions like this. He told me he isn't ready for a relationship right now with anyone and he's not into me 'right now'. He said he cares about me. He said he is so miserable he can't give anyone anything. I asked him if that's the case then why he was dating. He said he isn't seeing anyone. I guess I would have lied to me too.

Yesterday, in a haze of desperation, I called and told him I was sick of talking relationships and apologized for getting ugly the night before and just wanted to be able to feel what we feel and let things happen how they will or won't. I told him I didn't expect a relationship from him and simply wanted to feel close with him. I told him how nice I felt on Xmas and that things felt good again. He said he thought things were weird. He said he isn't attracted to me anymore and needs space. He said he'll call me in February.

Nice.

I am a dipshit. First of all, I feel like Xmas was a test and I failed. Second of all, I think it's weak and embarrassing that I let this happen again. I have been unbelievably depressed because of this and really, it's my own fault.

No more contact, I've had enough.

HELP.

Well ladies,

It happened again...
He called me Friday, Sunday (3x), and Monday (2x) over Xmas weekend. I saw him Xmas night for a couple of hours and of course, I thought we had a nice time. He was very affectionate and was kissing my hand, touching my hair, playful, kissing me, and generally making me feel nice. No sex, just (what I thought) was affection. Important point: He initiated everything. He knows exactly how I feel about him because all of my cards are face up on the table and have been for months.

Of course with his affections I was bursting with love for him. He gives a little then boom, I'm right back in love, then explosion, he takes it away with a vengeance...the night after Xmas I went shopping late at Victoria's Secret...getting quite ahead of myself but literally floating around. On my way home I pass his house and to my surprise, he has a girl over. Wasn't angry or hurt, just felt hollow inside. Felt convienient and insignificant.

The other day, after not hearing from him, I was so angry and called him and told him I was sick of him giving me just enough to keep me around and that it isn't right to screw with someone's emotions like this. He told me he isn't ready for a relationship right now with anyone and he's not into me 'right now'. He said he cares about me. He said he is so miserable he can't give anyone anything. I asked him if that's the case then why he was dating. He said he isn't seeing anyone. I guess I would have lied to me too.

Yesterday, in a haze of desperation, I called and told him I was sick of talking relationships and apologized for getting ugly the night before and just wanted to be able to feel what we feel and let things happen how they will or won't. I told him I didn't expect a relationship from him and simply wanted to feel close with him. I told him how nice I felt on Xmas and that things felt good again. He said he thought things were weird. He said he isn't attracted to me anymore and needs space. He said he'll call me in February.

Nice.

I am a dipshit. First of all, I feel like Xmas was a test and I failed. Second of all, I think it's weak and embarrassing that I let this happen again. I have been unbelievably depressed because of this and really, it's my own fault.

No more contact, I've had enough.

HELP.
amy9roo
I don't know why my post repeated itself so many times...
Kind of makes me laugh, it's like a sign of the repetitiveness of my screwed up relationship with this guy.
starpiste
curious, It sounds like you're blaming youself for a situation that he helped to cause. It's not the first time he hasn't listened to you and if he's done it more than once it's just going to happen again. No is all you should ever have to say and he doesn't listen to that. I'd end it asap.

amy, I think "No more contact, I've had enough." says it all. You know exactly what you need to do.

As for myself, my new boyfriend snores. Loudly. So loudly it wakes me up and keeps me from falling back asleep. I know I have to say something, but I'm not sure how to approach it. Any tips?
pepper
there's nothing at all that he can do about it sweety. i know, my mom snores like a buzz saw. i make sure to have ear plugs whenever we will be sleeping in the same domicile. i mean, i can hear her from any room in the house she's so loud. and i try to fall asleep before her too.

curiouskat, girl, that bites. he probably figured that since you were laughing you were enjoying it. it might be helpful to have a gentle explanation of how it made you feel (helpless, ultimately very physically uncomfortable, too much) and choosing a "safe word" that will let him know when, even though you may still be laughing, you've really had enough. as for his attitude, pretty immature, but how old is he?

eta, oops, this post was for ck not amy!
auralpoison
AMY! AMY! AMY! AMY! AMY! AMY! CUT. HIM. OFF. I cannot be more clear. IT'S OVER. I'm not trying to be a bitch. I have your best interests at heart here. It's hard for you to be objective & sometimes an outside party needs to give a heads up. IT'S OVER! MOVE ON! For your own sanity & your heart, let this guy fall to the wayside. I know that you've invested yourself & that you love him, but he's not worth all this heartache. Being privvy, he's small-minded & making you responsible for something that is NOTHING in the grande scheme of things. He has a part in things that he's not willing to own. Do you really want to be with somebody that can't accept his own responsiblilty in the proceedings?

Ask yourself why you're willing to take what you can get from this guy. He's so great you're willing to be debased? Disrespected? You just want to be "close" with him. Are you really willing to take a half-ass 'ship on his terms? No sex? Intimacy as he prescribes it? You're setting yourself up to be kicked in the teeth again & again. You need to step back & work on your priorities. You need to do what's BEST for YOU & as much as you love him, he's clearly not the path you should be taking.

"I'll call you in Feb." Fuck you, pal. Change your goddamned number! YOU ARE WORTH MORE THAN THIS! OWN YOUR SHIT! YOU ARE STRONG, WARM & IN COMMAND. HE CANNOT PRESCRIBE YOUR DESTINY. CUT. HIM. OFF.
maimy
Amy: Listen to AuralPoison!!!! She is a wise one, she is.



Curious, this is the second situation you've told us about in which you mention your guy has had something to drink before a situation goes south on you. And the second situation in which you are looking to take responsibility for the problems, so you can find what you supposedly did wrong, and fix everything and make it all better.

Unfortunately, what is wrong between you is not all your fault, hon. He's got a good share in the blame here - I would venture to say, the majority of it. So blaming yourself so you can then "fix" yourself will not cure what ails you two.

You did make a mistake. Rape is a significant crime against a person, and you will get precisely nowhere with anyone "using" it in any given situation.

That said, HE has shown every damned propensity to make your accusation come true that I can think of. This is also the second situation in which you have told us you asked Boy to stop doing something, and the second situation in which he would not. In this case, it appears he actually physically overpowered you to do so.

Think that doesn't ring a bell for many of us who have been victimized in the past? Think it's not scary to see happening to a fellow BUSTie, and watching her blame HERSELF for her drunk, refusing-to-say-no boyfriend's behavior?

Think again.

I actually thought of you this past week, when I read Dan Savage's sex advice column, Savage Love. Talk about the ultimate in Victim, Blame Thyself: http://www.citypages.com/databank/27/1360/article15007.asp

"A month ago, we were making love. I was restrained to the bed; we did this all the time. The next thing I knew, he's fingering my anus. I told him to stop, but he wouldn't. He took his time, stretching and lubing. I was screaming and crying for him to stop the whole time. I won't get into how much it hurt, but suffice it to say, I nearly passed out from blood loss as a result of his tearing open old scars. He freaked out when he saw the amount of blood on the bed and called 911. (This was after he'd had an orgasm). I spent a week in the hospital and ended up with 30 stitches to rerepair the damage."

The thing that broke my heart in this week's letter was that I recognized it, and it echoed some of what you have told us about your guy.

You will think I am blowing his behavior out of proportion. You will think I am being hysterical about your situation, maybe even projecting some irrelevant fear onto you, or that someone blowing off boundaries you are willing to call "unimportant" so you don't have to blame him for breaking them is not the same thing as someone blowing by boundaries like the girl in the letter above.

But consider this: Are you willing to discover that this guy is every bit as bad about major boundaries, as he is about "minor" ones? Are you willing to trust your safety and wellbeing to the HOPE that his refusal to listen to your explicitly stated "no" will become cooperation and acquiescence when it counts more to you than it does at this point? Are you 100% sure, absolutely positive, that you know better than the people who see exactly what you are saying and who see bad signs and alarming behavior?

I worry about ANYone who subverts their own instincts or standards to "forgive" someone else's behavior. I'm not on a campaign to make you feel bad. But I have seen enough of your posts to find your boyfriend a concern, and I know enough about human behavior to have doubts he's the type to come through like a hero after so often compromising his own sense of discipline, and compromising your stated needs and limits.

Please, consider the possibility that this guy's not good for you. Just consider it. But consider it carefully ...
curiouskat6
QUOTE(maimy @ Jan 1 2007, 06:30 PM) *

Amy: Listen to AuralPoison!!!! She is a wise one, she is.
Curious, this is the second situation you've told us about in which you mention your guy has had something to drink before a situation goes south on you. And the second situation in which you are looking to take responsibility for the problems, so you can find what you supposedly did wrong, and fix everything and make it all better.

Unfortunately, what is wrong between you is not all your fault, hon. He's got a good share in the blame here - I would venture to say, the majority of it. So blaming yourself so you can then "fix" yourself will not cure what ails you two.

You did make a mistake. Rape is a significant crime against a person, and you will get precisely nowhere with anyone "using" it in any given situation.

That said, HE has shown every damned propensity to make your accusation come true that I can think of. This is also the second situation in which you have told us you asked Boy to stop doing something, and the second situation in which he would not. In this case, it appears he actually physically overpowered you to do so.

Think that doesn't ring a bell for many of us who have been victimized in the past? Think it's not scary to see happening to a fellow BUSTie, and watching her blame HERSELF for her drunk, refusing-to-say-no boyfriend's behavior?

Think again.

I actually thought of you this past week, when I read Dan Savage's sex advice column, Savage Love. Talk about the ultimate in Victim, Blame Thyself: http://www.citypages.com/databank/27/1360/article15007.asp

"A month ago, we were making love. I was restrained to the bed; we did this all the time. The next thing I knew, he's fingering my anus. I told him to stop, but he wouldn't. He took his time, stretching and lubing. I was screaming and crying for him to stop the whole time. I won't get into how much it hurt, but suffice it to say, I nearly passed out from blood loss as a result of his tearing open old scars. He freaked out when he saw the amount of blood on the bed and called 911. (This was after he'd had an orgasm). I spent a week in the hospital and ended up with 30 stitches to rerepair the damage."

The thing that broke my heart in this week's letter was that I recognized it, and it echoed some of what you have told us about your guy.

You will think I am blowing his behavior out of proportion. You will think I am being hysterical about your situation, maybe even projecting some irrelevant fear onto you, or that someone blowing off boundaries you are willing to call "unimportant" so you don't have to blame him for breaking them is not the same thing as someone blowing by boundaries like the girl in the letter above.

But consider this: Are you willing to discover that this guy is every bit as bad about major boundaries, as he is about "minor" ones? Are you willing to trust your safety and wellbeing to the HOPE that his refusal to listen to your explicitly stated "no" will become cooperation and acquiescence when it counts more to you than it does at this point? Are you 100% sure, absolutely positive, that you know better than the people who see exactly what you are saying and who see bad signs and alarming behavior?

I worry about ANYone who subverts their own instincts or standards to "forgive" someone else's behavior. I'm not on a campaign to make you feel bad. But I have seen enough of your posts to find your boyfriend a concern, and I know enough about human behavior to have doubts he's the type to come through like a hero after so often compromising his own sense of discipline, and compromising your stated needs and limits.

Please, consider the possibility that this guy's not good for you. Just consider it. But consider it carefully ...



Maimy, I respect what you have said, I really do, there is just something that is stopping me from getting rid of him, I dont know what it is.

I know you probably dont want to hear more of this story but Im going to say it anyways. He called me last night, we were going to go out but plans fell through so we both spent new years eve alone which I was very upset about but I got over it after about 5 hours of crying. He said to me and I quote "I am not feeling 100%, I just want to take a shower and get a clean feeling. I am uncomfortable to have you over at my place at this moment, you are not at fault, you said what you needed to say and it stopped the situation, its just going to take me a bit to work through this." Hence why we didnt spend new years together...I just got off the phone with him and he sounded better but said he was still a bit worn out. He said that he didn't fall asleep until 5AM this morning but he was lying in bed, so he got at about 2PM and got started with his day. Because this is really bothering him, its bothering me.

We talked last night on the phone about when stop means stop. I told him through tears that I have been wanting to tell him this for awhile but I just didn't know how to approach it, he said that when there is something I need to talk about with him to just say hey I have something to talk to you about. So I told him that there was a reason why I said what I said, it wasn't to wound him but it was to make him stop because when I said stop, please stop, you wouldn't stop. He thought I was just teasing because I was laughing, he thought I was having fun, I told him I was until I couldn't stand it because Im so ticklish. He said "ok next time you say stop, I will stop. I will remember this for the future." I asked him how are we in this relationship, are we still happy? he said "yes I am very happy".

He knows that I would never call an outside source because I felt threatened by him, I assured him of that last night on the phone. I know what I said wasn't the right thing to say, I wasn't thinking when I did say it, it just came out...not sure that if I took the night back and started it over what I would have said in its place and I didn't know that saying that word, not screaming, not yelling, would affect as much as it has.

Thanks for reading
_octinoxate
Hi curiouskat. I've been following this conversation and want to say, first of all, that I'm glad you're coming here to talk about this stuff (welcome to bust, BTW!). I think you know that something isn't right with this guy/relationship, and it's great that you're trusting your intuition and trying to sort it out with other women's input/concern/help. Now, I'm not going to tell you what to do-- even though part of me is aching to tell you the same sorts of things that [the very wise] maimy has. Some red flags are definitely going up in my mind based on what you've told us about this guy. But I'm concerned that if we all tell you time after time that this guy is no good and that you should dump him.. and then you don't dump him... I'm worried you won't feel comfortable coming back to talk about it more if things go on like this or (god forbid) get worse. So, I hope I can speak on behalf of at least a few other busties when I say: no matter what choice you make, we'll support you if you get into trouble and need to come back here. Yup, even if you blew off advice before.

I'm wondering if you've ever heard the phrase "cycle of violence." It's a concept that people use to describe the way that abusive relationships work. ...And I know you're saying, yo octi, hold up, I am not in an abusive relationship. And you might not be-- I don't know this guy, I don't know how you two interact firsthand. But it sure sounds familiar (and I used to work for a domestic violence/sexual assault center). Anyway, the cycle of violence basically means that if someone is abusing their partner--whether it's verbal, emotional, physical, or sexual--the abuse isn't constant. An incident will happen, and then afterward, the abuser will act very repentant. Apologize, say he wants to work things out, that he doesn't know what came over him/he was drunk/other excuses. He'll be sweet, super sweet. Or maybe he'll lay the guilt on the other person, say that he acted the way he did because his partner made him angry, or didn't say/do something right. But he'll promise that it was a misunderstanding, an aberation, that things will change and it will never happen again. Say he loves you, and doesn't want to lose you. And the person who was abused, well, they want to believe it all. They have hope. They have faith in the person to change. So they forgive/take back the abuser, and there's a honeymoon period where everything seems fine... it may last days, or weeks, or even months. But then that period ends. More often than not (much more often than not, sadly), that cycle repeats itself, again and again and again. And it escalates. The abuse generally gets worse each time the cycle goes around again. So, curiouskat, I want to invite you to just consider that and keep it in mind. See if it's a pattern that applies to your relationship. And please please please be careful, and trust your gut feelings.
curiouskat6
No I will say hold up there hun, lol, the relationship is not abusive in any way, saying rape with a smile on my face and a lil giggle does not constitute as an abusive relationship in the slightest, Im the one apologizing for saying the damn word, he is the one that has to "work" through the fact that I said the word, im pretty sure he is replaying the incident in his mind and asking himself what he did for me to say that, he knows what he did, he wouldnt stop tickling my sides, lol!! It was nothing abusive I assure you, I think the word itself more than the actions that caused the word made him feel like shit because he has been a lil distant since Saturday night. If anything this will make our relationship stronger because we are able to talk about these to each other, communication is a very strong point in our relationship, im thankful for that, I can talk to him about anything and he gives me a valid answer.


Thanks for your advice though, I really do appreciate the advice and responses, knowing that I have the support here no matter what makes me smile:)

ok time for bed:) tongue.gif
starpiste
pepper, thanks for the response. I mentioned it gently and he said just to wake him up and he'll move which should help. Earplugs are a good idea though.
sybarite
Curiousk, I just want to echo the thoughtful advice given to you here. Maimy, pepper and octinoxate said it better than I could.

And Amy, what AuralP said. She speaks the truth.

Starpiste, I feel your pain. My longterm mister is a snorer and since I moved in with him it has been a recurring problem. In my experience, most guys will respond well and peaceably to be being gently woken, and thus stop snoring. However, my mister hates being woken (my point to him is um, so do I, by your snoring...) so we end up snarking at each other at 4am.

To be fair, part of the problem is that I'm not as solid a sleeper as I used to be, so I'm more easily woken. For now, I go into the spare room if it's bad, but I think we'll have to work out a better solution for the long term.

Saying all that, pepper's advice is sound and as I say, most guys are happy to move to a different, non-snoring position once they've been made aware of the problem. And it's true: people who snore can't help it and often feel bad about it to boot. Good luck!
maimy
Curious, I do realize it looks like I am telling you what to do; Octi put it perfectly. In my first post to you, with the repeated "DTMFA"s in it, I really was.

But now we are all just asking you to look at this, to ask yourself why all this troubles you so, and to listen to what we think the answers may be. We cannot - and should not - make your decisions for you. BUST is a supportive and nurturing community, and we're not here to tell anyone their decisions are stupid, or to belittle anyone's deeply-felt emotions, or even relationships. But YOU are showing signs of discomfort, and those of us who feel we recognize the problems you're experiencing are genuinely concerned. Things do escalate, and "small" signs do indicate larger patterns of behavior.

At the same time we want to support and take care of our own, we don't always define "support" as "unquestioningly agree". So I do hope, as it seems so far, you take our remonstrations with you as positive, not as interference or antagonism.

It's been a long, long time since I doled out much advice on this board. There are those who were members here like eight years ago who could tell you there was a time it was impossible to shut me up with my advice to the lovelorn. But of recent years, I've been fairly quiet on most of these types of questions. For whatever reason, your problems have struck a chord with me, and I have found it difficult - impossible, let's face it - not to comment, to respond, to react ... and try to get a reaction.

Please understand that my bossy 'tude is not meant to be nasty, but that I have a way of expressing myself pretty ... strongly. But it is always with the understanding that I do respect everyone here, and I would not want to come across as not listening, or as a knowitall bitch.

Though I am one. Heh. It's not actually the intention!
raisingirl
Maims, how I wish I were lovelorn enough to even solicit advice from you, the bestest knowitall bitch evar.
gomersalgirl
Hi Ladies, I posted a 'letter I'd write but never send' yesterday. FREE SPIRIT hugged me and ask that I keep her/everyone posted in the dating thread.

Thanks for the hug, free spirit. You truly made my day. Today was better...it was actually good to go back to work after such a hellish long weekend. I wrote internet guy back...two lines max. We'll see where it goes from there! I love this site.
thingsarenice
I have been with my boyfriend for about four years now, and even though I love him an awful lot, things seem to be stagnating. He seems perfectly content to spend the rest of his life sleeping on a couch in his parent's basement, and that's just not okay with me. I don't want to be supported or something, but if I'm going to spend my life with someone, I'd rather he not be a total loser. He's really sweet and cute and fun and funny and smart, but his lack of motivation to do anything but play video games--not even having sex--is starting to really piss me off.
At the same time, I've been spending some time with a guy one of my friends introduced me to. He's a lot like my boyfriend except, well, better; more thoughtful, better groomed, and a lot more industrious. I don't know if it's just a case of the grass being greener or whatever, but I'm developing quite the crush on him and it seems like the feeling may be mutual.
I'm not really sure what to do. My boyfriend and I had been talking about marriage and I don't know what he'd end up doing if I broke up with him; he's bad off enough as it is. And how can I be sure I want to be with this other guy and it's not just the bored horniness talking? I was just wondering if anyone had any advice or anything of that sort.
girltrouble
things are nice:
i'd talk to him. at least let him know where you stand. if he still does nothing, then you are right to break up with him, if you choose to. but you can't be responsible for his actions, only your own, so the question can't/shouldn't be what will he do if i break up with him, it should be, if i am not getting what i want in this relationship, and he's informed about my unhappyness, what do i want to do about it?

nickclick
i agree, you def need to talk. you don't need to mention that you've met another guy and are making comparisons. but don't feel guilty for doing so. sometimes just viewing the other grass makes you assess the green-ness of your own, and that's not a bad thing.

when you and your bf are talking marriage, does he say what he'd like it to be like? ask for specifics. i dated mr. all-talk-and-no-action for quite a while before realizing the inaction was probably permanent. i also worried about his inaction without me pushing him, but then i saw that my life could not continue to be in a holding pattern because of it.
thingsarenice
We were saying we'd probably get married when we're done with school but... Meh. We spent the day together and he was really just getting on my nerves. I tried to talk to him about it the other day; I told him how bored I am with the relationship, but he's just so darned adorable I felt like I was kicking a very loyal, wounded puppy and didn't get very far with it. I don't know if this is just the natural progression of things or what, but either way I'm feeling pretty shitty, especially since he suggested that I should hang out with my friends more, which basically just means the guy I've mentioned since my other friends are all back in school now.
nickclick
i would often wish my ex would be an asshole so it would make it easier to hate him and leave him. but he was (is) a good guy, just not giving me what i need and what i was asking for.

telling you to hang out with friends more as a solution to your boredom in your relationship? he should see the red flag here. address the issue with all seriousness. avoid sad puppy dog eyes. feeling sorry for someone is not a good reason to stay in an unhappy relationship!
sinfullysmitten
So, just wondering - foreign men...I'm about to go out with someone who was born in Cairo, but has strong American roots, and all that good stuff. But what I wanna know is, what are foriegn men like? blink.gif
roseviolet
Could you please define "strong American roots"? For instance, do you know how old was he when he moved to the US? Or how long he has lived in the US?
sinfullysmitten
He's live in the US for about 5 years; we are meeting from MySpace, lol smile.gif He has good english, but when we talk, you can tell he has a strong personality, yet vulnerable at the same time....


PS: His mom is from the US - currently in Cairo with his dad.

QUOTE(roseviolet @ Jan 11 2007, 08:03 PM) *

Could you please define "strong American roots"? For instance, do you know how old was he when he moved to the US? Or how long he has lived in the US?
bustygirl
Foreign is too broad a term to quantify, particularly since all people from any given region are individuals, and may not feel or think the same things.

Treat him the same as you would any guy you'd just met, and don't know. Cautious, and with eyes open. If he seems okay, go further, but trust your instincts.

After all, 'foreign' men are just as likely to be jerks or nice guys as americans.
roseviolet
Busty is right - "foreign" isn't very specific. For instance, I'm an American married to an Englishman and a friend of mine is married to a Russian. And while we can swap tales about greencards and marriage visas, our personal experiences are very different because each man was raised within a unique culture. However, I might still be able to offer a bit of advice.

When people meet my husband & my friend A (the Russian), they seem to lose their minds a bit. They especially go crazy for their accents; "Say something!" they exclaim. Say what? No one cares - as long as they can hear the accent. Next, people test the stereotypes ("Do you drink a lot of tea?" for my husband and "Do you drink a lot of vodka?" for A). I know this always makes my husband feel like a freak & he becomes rather self-conscious & shy as a result. No one wants to feel like a circus sideshow. So first and foremost, treat him like a unique individual - not like he's supposed to be the ambassador to Egypt. Feel free to ask him about his life, of course, but I'd refrain from going on about his accent & focusing all of your questions on his years in a foreign land. More than likely he gets asked about that sort of thing a lot & he's gotten a bit sick of it. Talk with him about what he's doing with his life now. His interests. The sort of thing you'd ask any guy on a date.

There will be some cultural differences, of course. Hopefully it will be easier since his mother is American. Plus, he's lived here for years! But nothing will change the fact that the influences of his youth were probably quite different than yours. The music he listened to, the movies he watched, the jokes & phrases he heard ... a lot of these will be MUCH much different than you've experienced. Some of that is good! It'll be a great education for you! But sometimes it can be frustrating. But hey ... we all bring something new to a relationship, right? That's what keeps things interesting. smile.gif
anna k
As long as you get along well and there isn't too much of a language barrier, it isn't too different from dating an American guy. As I mentioned in the original thread, I dated a French guy who worked various jobs and had a vagabond/wanderer attitude, and he wasn't different from any young guy who is artsy but doesn't have a solid career.

My aunt married a Frenchman in the 1970s. She had studied French in college and went to Paris, and they met and married later. My aunt speaks it fluently, but will still be treated like an outsider when she goes to Paris with him to visit family and friends.

I think it's great when people of different backgrounds live together and possibly marry. I attended the wedding of my Irish-American cousin to a Venzuelean girl raised in New Mexico and Venezuela, and I liked how the reception was held at her mother's house where she hired a mariachi band to play, it brought a classy air to the party, like I was in a rich home in South America.

Heck, my dad's Catholic cousin married a Jewish man, and since my Italian-American relatives grew up in Brooklyn next to Jewish neighbors, sometimes the old family members will sound like Jewish senior citizens. My grandma is sounding more like a Jewish old lady, and me and my brother and dad are mistaken for Jewish, getting "Happy Hannukah" and "Happy Rosh Hashanah" greetings.
mornington
definitely what busty said. "foreign" basically means non-american. i lived in the middle east, and in terms of media and that, i didn't find it that different. books, yes, but films and music... no. the differences could be in how he percieves family, relationships with others, formality and that. but treat him as an individual, not an interesting new species, and don't let "foreign" define him.


greenbean
Mmmmmm...I love me some foreign men! I've had romances with English, French, Italian, German, Argentine and Brazilian. I suppose I'm a bit of an international slut! I for one think they ARE different than American men (boys) cuz they tend to come off as better educated. Or maybe its just that they seem 'wiser', because their countries are older. Also, they usually know more than one language, which makes Americans seem kinda dumb and lazy. So I guess I'm attracted to intellgent guys of any culture...and I have to admit they do get bonus points for the accent. laugh.gif
But, yeah, you gotta make sure that you like the guy despite his "exoticness". (although I may have chosen to ignore that advice myself a couple times, heh)
sinfullysmitten
greenbean you are too cute! yah, my guy is an engineer at a superhot company, and let's just say his family is very well to do! i can only imagine how smart and intelligent he'll be when i meet him IRL, lol!!!
gumby_cc
I dated a guy from Korea and he was really physically rough with me. I think unintentionally. But I had to really push him away from me to remain in control. I didn't like that. Who knows if it was a cultural thing or a jerk thing. I also didn't like that he would get a million phone calls while we were hanging out, and he would speak in Korean to them. I had no idea what was going on. Well, I found out like a year later that it was his girlfriend calling him to see where he was and to make plans with him. They had been dating since he had come over to the US in the first place. Fucking arse.
auralpoison
When I lived abroad, I dated/fucked my way through the gamut of men from outside of my sheltered little American stylee fellows. Irish, English, Scot, Italian, French, Portuguese, Greek, German, Dutch, Swiss, Norwegian, Czech, etc. The only real appreciable differences were what most folks have said. They tended to be better educated, more cosmopolitan & because of cultural diffs had diff expectations on family & relationships in general.

Admittedly, in some of these instances I was a novelty date. The main, long term Irish boy I dated completely got off on bringing me home to meet the family because not only was I his American girlfriend, I was his *black* American girlfriend. I could discuss James Brown, the Troubles, & Joyce in equal measure & his family LOVED me. "Oh, call me Da. So, you're gonna take Frankie back to America, yeah? Yer wee ones would be grand!" The only weird thing there was that his gran kept calling me "Moira" instead of my name cos they rhymed & she was senile.

The French boys seemed to like me in particular. I do not know why. There was a nice little French boy named Fabian that a horrible crush on me. I just couldn't get into him, though. We went on a few museum dates, but he looked like a young Gabe Kaplan & the language barrier was preventative. Smelly Freddy, however. Yow! I never knew what he was saying, but that he liked classic rock & was hotter than hell.

German guys = weird. Seriously. Matthias took pictures of me eating all the time. We had a mutual interest in photography & went on a few expeditions to check out ruins, but ultimately he gave me the heebies.

When I got back to the US & moved to civilization, I continued the multi-culti trend. I think racial mixing is a goodness. My genetic background is like, less than one percent of one percent in the world. I dated several working class Irish & Scot guys, but expaned my repertoire to include Canada, Cuba, Brazil, Puerto Rico, Argentinia, Aussie, New Zealand, various African Nations, Jamaica, Israel, Kuwait, India, Thailand, UAE, etc, etc.

I can say I wasn't crazy about the Middle Eastern/Arab/Moslem guys because I found them to be controlling. Khalid was gorgeous, he looked like Elvis Costello, but had WAY too many issues for me.

All in all, I believe in dating the individual & not the culture. Yeah, I'd be lying if I said that it didn't bring something new & interesting to the table, but I never introduced a guy like, "His name is Gustavo & he's from Argentina!"

Engineers rule! HB is a chemical engineer & stinks of the smartness.
zoya
... oh yeah, and don't forget, they're almost all uncircumcised..

(sorry, my bad sense of humor... it had to be said...)

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