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DaisyJane
I need help. Advice. Anything. Let me give you the rundown and please give me any input you can because im starting to feel insane.

My boyfriend and I live together. Been together about a year (yes we moved fast). Last month and all prior, he was fabulous. The reason I fell in love with him. He was funny, happy-go-lucky, creative and smart and caring. he would be thoughtful and be abe to make me feel so special.

Starting this last month I got a second job that was making me work about 65-70 hours a week. This job only lasted a month (its seasonal, i do it every year) and it ended this Sunday. Since i started it, I would come home and be pretty exhausted. I wouldnt have much energy to clean, laundry, etc. BUT I also didnt have the energy to mess antyhing up. So the house stayed pretty much the same as it did when I was working regular hours.
But he would come home, Id do my usual "hi honey" with a kiss and NOW that seems to make him angry! he goes on like "Can I at least relax for a minute before you jump all over me?!?" When I literally am only saying hello with a kiss. We were watching a movie and he was all on the other side of the couch not touching me like usual. I say "everything ok?" and hes like "do i have to constantly be touching you?!?" then a spider is on the wall (Im aracnophobic) and Im like "Ew! Spidie!" and he gets up, growls at me and is like "Its pathetic. Afraid of a fucking spider."
So hes just become MEAN. But then - at the same time. Someimes hes still GREAT. He told me in bed "Every night i get in bed, I have trouble not proposing to you yet. I love you so much" or get me flowers on his way home or something.
So I also got dumped 4 baby kittens on me that Im bottlefeeding. So Im getting up every 2 hours for feeding, making me even MORE tired. so last night we got home frmo pizza with his family and I run over to make sure my babies are good. But one is diarreahed all over and vomiting. So I grab it fast and rush to the sink to see what I can do for it, I grab a roll of paper towels out and leave the plastic on the floor, while Ive got this dying kitten in my hands. WHILE im freaking out and trying to make the kitten stop vomiting he throws the paper towels into the closet and is like "fucking finish what you start"
And Im like "Oh, Im so sorry I didnt put them away right away. I should have just left my kitten to choke on his own vomit and die so you wouldnt have to put the paper towels back"
And we got into a HUGE fight. Ended up with me crying my eyes out and him ignoring me. Then him leaving the house to go 'on a walk'. I tell him he needs to see a psychiatrist and see if he has some sort of chemical imbalance or anger issues or something. Then I ask him if he is pushing me away on purpose to have me break up with him so he doesnt have to.
When he comes back on his walk, I straight out ask if hes cheating on me and he starts crying and saying he would never do that in a million years. He loves me more than anything in his life and he doesnt know whats wrong with him.
He goes on about how he will see a psychiatrist, get evaluated because he cant let his anger be the cause of me leaving him, etc.

What Im confused about is....What the fuck?!? What the hell is wrong with him? He goes from being a complete prick one minute to being in love with me and crying the next. He does NOT want to see someone but SAYS he will for me.

Am I being hyper sensitive? Is there something seriously wrong with him?

Also last night in the conversation i was like "youre turning into my dad." because my dad is always grumpy. Youre afraid to say anyting to him for fear of him making you feel bad, feel stupid, or get your head bitten off. I said "you know I hate that about my dad, how mean he can be. I refuse to spend the rest of my life with someone like my dad. If you dont change, Im not marrying you."

Was i wrong to say this?
Can I just get someone elses perspective on this please? I feel insane. I feel like Im walking on eggshells for fear of getting yelled at.
And now I feel really bad for making him feel bad about his behaviour.

Help please!!!! sad.gif
p_176
DaisyJane –
a) how was he fabulous and how did he make you feel special? Was there any other time he acted great then got angry for no obvious reason? Were there other times where it would seem that you were making exceptions for him or putting in more effort somehow, when he was not doing the same for you?
cool.gif Did he know beforehand that you would be working this seasonal job?
c) Did you talk about how to divvy chores, esp while you worked this 2nd job?
d) About his not touching you/not wanting you to kiss him hello when he came home from work – did you snap at him when you came home from work? Was there anything that made him feel neglected?
e) About the spiders – he may feel that you are ‘strong enough’ to work 2 jobs but wonders why you are not enough to deal with a spider. But of course, this really ties in with his problems with the relationship as a whole not the spiders.
f) He’s become mean but still can be great – not cool because it’s like he’s trying to mess with your head – he seems to be upset that you were working so much and thus did not have time for him (this includes the baby kittens – he was not upset about the paper towels. He was upset that you were paying attention to the kitten not him.) and being mean but sometimes great is a classic passive aggressive behavior.
g) Telling him he’s being like your dad may not be the way to go – address the behavior without comparing it to someone else specifically – that may get more of a dialogue going – like, this type of attitude seems to come up in this type of situation, what is bothering you?



DaisyJane
Hi P, Ill try to adress the questions.

a) He was just really 'nice'. He would come home and drop everything and throw me down on the ground and go in for kiss attacks. Or if he was working in the computer room he would stop, run into me and kiss me, and run back into the computer room. he would snuggle me in bed. he would draw or play his music. He would go on and on about how Im the one for him. I was so beautiful, funny, smart, etc. Just make me feel really good about myself. I cant offhand think of any incidences before this month of just irrational hostility like it is lately.

cool.gif Yes, i work this one month long thing every year since i was 13. Its a craft show thing that I do for my best friend. She owns a soap company and its on Sat and Sun. I get up and leave the house by 6:30am and get home around 10pm. He used to talk about how he needs his 'alone time' to play guitar or whatever. So I figured 'hey, he'll get a whole lot of alone time this way".

c)No, we did not divvy chores when i started the second job because chores were never really an issue. I get off my regular job at 4 and have time to do minor things like laundry and dishes.Lately, I havent had the energy or time to do it every day.

d) I dont think I snapped at him at all. Im a very even tempered person and it takes a LOT to make me upset. He gets really shut down and distant and this was one of those nights. i just didnt know if it was something I did. Thats why i asked and he got furious that i even asked.

e)He claims that since he lived with his sister a mother (no dad) and had to kill spiders for them his whole life, he hates doing it now. But the point is - I have an actual phobia. I cant look at pictures or anything. Sorry, cant really change that right now.

f) He is messing with my head, which is what caused my breakdown last night. I was sobbing saying that I couldnt handle his ups and downs. I dont know when to hide myself in the bedroom and read alone, or when to be around him and be my usual happy self. I figured with the kittens, we could do it together. I have 4 infant kittens, and he has no desire to help me in any way when Im getting up 3 times a night to feed them, so all in all Im getting about 4 hours of sleep per night and hes getting 8.

g) Do you think we should have a middle man as in a therapist? He has some serious issues to work out, I think. He has anger control issues. Like, if someone cuts him off on the freeway he flips out, flips off the driver and it ruins his mood for the next hour. And by the tme the next hour comes, something else has made him mad all over again.

I just feel confused is the bottom line. What the fuck am I supposed to do with this behaviour? I live in the house too, im not going to hide in a closet until its 'safe' to come out and he wont get mad at me.

I just dont understand how it could have all changed so much in ONE MONTH!
Im started to feel bamboozled by him. Like his true colors are showing.
maimy
DJBiz, the only way to deal with it is to lay the cards on the table. "Look, the situation might be overwhelming, here's why." None of it is really about YOU being overwhelming, so it's not like it ought to inform y'all's hopes for a relationship - but it will certainly be a bit to deal with. Ask him if he wants to/can afford to get a hotel room. That might be good, if you can go in on it together. It doesn't require the Ritz to create a little space for yourselves, if that is a viable option. If not, well, it is what it is, and if he wants to come - great. Not easy. But great. Anyone who's willing to deal with inconvenience if it means seeing you probably REALLY wants to see you. And that is the most, maybe the only, truly important thing.

If you guys can't create a space together by getting a hotel room, can you create time away from the obstacles instead? An hour or two every afternoon at the burrito stand, where you can talk and have a good time without distractions? A walk to the library or a park? Even a trip to the grocery can be one-on-one time worth spending, if you both have the chance to relax without distractions ...

Good luck!
tyger
Daisy, it really sounds like he's depressed (unless there are issues that he's really great at concealing). So, maybe a big blowup wasn't the best way to go about things, but he's a) admitted that he doesn't know what is going on to make him be like this and cool.gif said he'll go to a doctor/psychiatrist/whatever and get his shit figured out. offer to go to couple's councelling with him. assure him that you'll stick by him while he gets through it (as long as you will, and under the condition that he gets professional help and doesn't stop before suggested just because he thinks he's better)
(((daisyjane)))

(an aside: a few of the things you mention him doing are remarkably like what i do when i get slightly depressed, like the aversion to kissing/touching, which is what makes me think it's likely (though not certainly) depression)
into_a_bulb
DaisyJane, I think you two are just entering that phase of the relationship where you begin to fight more, it's not all about the passion every second of everyday. This is the most trying time in a relationship but it's where you begin to fully understand each other and if you make it through you'll know you're good for a long time together. It might continue for a few months or so but eventually you two will learn how to make it work if you are both patient during those frustrating times such as when he's being totally ignorant of your feelings. I would suggest talking to him when he's flipping out like that and if he's not being reasonable, taking a walk yourself. If, though, he doesn't seem to change into a more evolved person in the relationship, you shouldn't be subjected to that type of behavior.
p_176
speaking of counselling - maybe also check with your medical dr - maybe he has something in his brain that is affecting his behavior? (i know - maybe i watch too much house, or discovery health channel :-D )
dj-bizmonkey
thanks maimy, i really appreciate it, all the things you've said are things that i've thought about, but i think i needed to hear it from some one else's lips before i was totally confident to proceed. thanks again!
zoya
QUOTE(tyger @ May 22 2007, 11:49 PM) *
Daisy, it really sounds like he's depressed (unless there are issues that he's really great at concealing). So, maybe a big blowup wasn't the best way to go about things, but he's a) admitted that he doesn't know what is going on to make him be like this and cool.gif said he'll go to a doctor/psychiatrist/whatever and get his shit figured out. offer to go to couple's councelling with him. assure him that you'll stick by him while he gets through it (as long as you will, and under the condition that he gets professional help and doesn't stop before suggested just because he thinks he's better)
(((daisyjane)))

(an aside: a few of the things you mention him doing are remarkably like what i do when i get slightly depressed, like the aversion to kissing/touching, which is what makes me think it's likely (though not certainly) depression)



Daisy - I agree with the above, with the emphasis on UNDER THE CONDITION that he gets professional help and keeps going. Having grown up with a father (and brothers) with issues like this (and having gotten into relationships in the past with guys who did the same), I can tell you that it's really easy to take on the problems / issues of someone you care for deeply. But you need to remember that it's HIS problem.

There is no excuse for someone to lash out randomly at you the way he did. Ever. Even if he has some kind of psychiatric issue going on, that's not an excuse. It's a good wake up call that he should be addressing it, though.

Sorry to be so harsh, but I grew up with a father with anger issues not unlike the spider thing -where out of nowhere I'd be verbally chastised for something I couldn't help and after awhile I started thinking I was the one partially at fault for his upset. And would beat myself up for not being stronger or better or more loveable. It took me years to overcome that, and I'd hate to see you walk down that road, where you start wondering how somehow you play a part in this.

I think that if he is willing to address this and work through it, you'll be fine - and it's kind of good that it's happening early in the game because you are learning more about him now, rather than 10 years down the road or something. But I'd defintely say to think twice if he's not willing to do anything about it. And remember that Actions speak louder than words. He can say he's sorry, he can say he loves you and that he feels out of control, but until he does something about it, you run the risk of him treating you like this again and again.

again, sorry to be so harsh, I just don't want to see you get further into his anger when it sounds like now is a good time for him to try and nip it in the bud.
roseviolet
Daisy, I totally and completely agree with Zoya and Tyger on this. It is imperative that he gets into counseling soon and that he stays in it. This is not something that can be fixed in just a few sessions. He will be in weekly counseling sessions for months. If he's willing to make that kind of commitment, then good. But he must follow through. It's too important.

When I read your post, it sent up all sorts of red flags for me. It brought up lots of harsh memories about a relationship I stayed in for 7 years ... years of walking on eggshells, hoping he might change, praying that he might finally go to counseling like he promised (a promise that he made not only to me, but to my parents, too). Eventually he finally went to 3 counseling sessions, but that was it. He claimed it "wasn't right" for him ... that he could "do it [him]self". I'm sure you can imagine how well that worked.

Eventually I managed to leave. It was by far the hardest thing I've ever done, but I'm in a much safer place now. It's a relief to know that I don't have to feel frightened in my own home anymore.
zoya
yeah, daisy - I have to say, your post also brought up red flags for me and brought up a lot of what must be similar memories to roseviolet's. It's very easy to slide down that slippery slope when you care about someone, but you should not ever feel like you need to tiptoe around someone or can't be yourself in your own home.
datagirl
sorry...changed my mind smile.gif
nickclick
wow. daisy, i had that kind of relationship too, as zoya and rose. had. he acknowledged he had anger issues. he talked about therapy. he said he loved me, couldn't live without me, kissed and hugged me. but when he had some regret about something, or i wasn't giving him enough "attention," it was jeckyl and hyde time. i was to blame for everything. he was packing his bags, punching walls, screaming his head off.

therapy has to be an option and it has to be taken seriously. we went to couples therapy for a few months, and he was blaming that our therapist was a woman for us "ganging up on him." when he switched to a (male) psychiatrist, he was a "dick."

i have to say, after i left, he took it more seriously and is still in therapy, as far as i know. and i don't hate him, and vice versa. he seems happy, but he's in a new relationship and she's willing to accept that kind of behavior. i guess i wasn't willing to wait forever for him to clean himself up, and maybe the lesson learned is that we're just better off apart.
DaisyJane
Well, he just got his benefits from work on May 1st and we got the Kaiser packet yesterday on our doorstep. When we were laying in bed he said he was going to look at it today and see how he goes about getting an appointment. But we will see.

He seems to be doing a little better, so far. I think hes making a real concious effort to control it. (He still needs the therapy, but you know). Like last night, I took a blanket out of the dryer and left it on the bed. i didnt fold it. I saw him see it and get mad, but then he folded it himself and came back and sat down with me without saying anything.

Im not a stupid girl and Ive already made the 'rule' in my head. If he doesnt change by our anniversary, which is July 29th, Im out. Im giving him time to start seeing a therapist AND for it to start working.

Everythings just left me in a tailspin, because ive never seen this behavior out of him before. And there could be a million things that triggered it, namely, me working on the weekends or our new baby kittens.

But dont worry ladies, Im not one to stay in any kind of abusive relationship. Ive left two of them so far, one of which was 5 years.

I just dont think hes really acting like him. Im going to sit back and see which side of him is the real one. Thanks so much for all your help ladies.
Moonpieluv
WOrd on sitting back trying to grasp what's real, daisy... you seem to have a good head on your shoulders for not taking crap.

Nick-- Amen on not sticking around waiting for him to clean himself up. I've got a life to live... I'm not going to take his using me, manipulating me for his use... I.E. telling me he still loves me and blah blah to save face so he could get a free-ride on vacation and booty. Then flipping into a total dick once the vacation ended. Manipulating my feelings. what a fucker! Makes me feel so used and stupid, but a little angry... mostly disgusted. and the Jeckyl and Hyde thing rings true with this Toys-R-Us kid.... he knows I know the truth, the dirty secrets, about him and lashes accordingly.

I feel like I wasted a year of my life thinking my ex was still this soft sweet good-hearted guy who just had a bad couple of years that effected our relationship in the end. As I've said before, I couldn't let go of that IDEA I had of him. Thought I was being too hard on him or was I just looney myself?
Now that he's back in town, I see him for what he really is... finally accept that the relationship wasn't healthy towards the end and never would be again. Especially in his current state. He's has changed into something that is negative, cold, and all around screwed in the head. Loser. Struggling and failing to hold on to some semblance of a caring person, conscious of how he has changed and virtually powerless to do anything about it. He even had the nads to say "I'm done with being an asshole, nyc turned me into a monster" .... and "I wanna be a better person"....But when you have friends saying... uh luv, he's just not right in the head... or oh, you know CRAZY (insert ex's name)... or even if I had stayed in nyc... you still should have broken up with him. Just sooo disappointing. I'm disgusted and finally cutting this dirt-bag off.


You guys rock! I hope it gets smoother for you daisy and doesn't come to having to leave.
I wish I had some influence in getting him into therapy, just as a friend who fears for him. But NOPE. He doesn't deserve my worrying over him.

Sigh. over and out. here comes the sun.
lux
DaisyJane - if you want your relationship to work out eventually, it's important that he sees a therapist as soon as possible. it's possible to chance ones behavior when it comes to anger. i know this from my own experience. but it's a longer process and he has to be willing to work with it. if he's smart, he'll realize that it's actually good for him as-well to get over those issues. i'm very glad that someone pointed out for me that, i actually had a problem i could try to fix. and it has been better. i really hope he understands that he doesn't really have a choice.
all the best for you both
LustfullyPink
I've got quite a... large... dilemma.

There are two boys who like me, I like both of them. Problem is, I like older boy a lot more, but I can't be with him right now. We both awknowledge and accept this. There is a possibility for us to get together later on, it just can't happen right now. Younger boy is GREAT too. He's cute, we get on well, he's nice (possibly a little too nice for my tastes, I dunno yet) and we'd go good together. The problem with younger boy? My best friend LOATHES him. I have no idea why. She just talks about how he's stupid every time I bring him up. I know I should respect and value her opinion and just leave youngerboy alone, but the problem is, she has NO IDEA where I'm coming from. She's had one boyfriend, ever, and she's still with him now, it's been about two and a half years. She never dated anyone previous to him.

So basically, now that I've posted 6 hours worth of reading for backstory, I just don't know whether to wait around a year or possibly more for older boy, with the possibility that he may start dating someone steadily and I'll be heartbroken, or upset my best friend, go out with youngerboy, and potentially be very happy.

(I know it should be a very easy choice, as Olderboy is quite a bit older, slightly balding, not exactly svelt, and very... cynnical, and youngerboy is muscled, dark hair, blue eyes, great at video games and very sweet. Call me crazy, but I'm more attracted to olderboy.)
edie52
Lustfully, I'm curious about why your friend loathes youngerboy... do you think she's jealous for some reason? Is she possessive of you? Is she often like this? I know I have a friend who thinks no one is good enough for me... and I have other friends who try to like anyone I like. Or do you think there's something truly abhorrent about him that you just don't see? Also, does she know how you feel about him, and does she know about the olderboy situation too?

Well, ultimately, it shouldn't matter too much what your friend thinks, as you'll be the one dating the guy. This might not be the best advice, but I think maybe you should give it a go with youngerboy. Seeing as you might have to wait a year for olderboy, and you don't want to stop living, right... the problem is, you kind of know it won't work out if you continue thinking about olderboy, and know you like him more. So I guess you have to assess the situation... if you think youngerboy might really get hurt and you hate messy romantic entanglements, maybe you should explain the situation to him or just plain avoid it...

Why can't you and olderboy be together... is it a distance thing?

I'm also kind of caught between 2 boys... the guy I've actually been dating for a month who is very sweet, cute, and talented, and who seems to like me quite a bit, and my ex, who has been The One in my books for over 5 years. I thought I was over him, but he's been turning up a lot lately. I heard he broke up with his last gf because he still had feelings for me. We hang out a lot and always have a great time. The chemistry between us is so great it makes me curious if the physical chemistry would still be there (not so sure because at the end of our relationship he barely even wanted to kiss me, which made me feel reallly shitty, among numerous other problems). With newguy, everything is lovely because it's new, however there have already been some problems in the bedroom, though nothing I'm not willing to work through. And when we spend a lot of time together we completely run out of things to talk about, which is pretty inevitable, except with that rare person you could talk forever with (read: my ex).

Newguy is very nice, he's THE Good Guy, actually kind of the opposite of my ex (which is refreshing because he's calm and sensitive and considerate, but I also feel there's something missing). I really don't want to break up with him and run back to the ex just to realize that, oh, yeah, the ex and I broke up for a reason, and we now have scarred our friendship as well. On the other hand, this is bugging me and I just want to talk to the ex about it, but I don't want to open this whole can of worms and have him to declare undying love or something and have to respond "I have a boyfriend." Then I'd feel like an ass for bringing it up at all, or feel this tremendous pressure to choose.
glassk
so i've been sleeping with this guy for about 4/5 months. he's met my mom. my mom LOVES him. we're not actually dating. i want a DTR. I don't want anything to change, i just want to say, "my boyfriend" instead of, "that guy i'm seeing" when I talk about sex.

And I would go for youngerboy, and then dump him for olderboy in a years if things hadn't changed. but by going for youngerboy, it gives things the opportunity to change without missing out. wink.gif
LustfullyPink
So I am officially with youngerboy. I figure I may as well throw it out there, Younger boy is two a year younger than me, and olderboy is 9 years older than me. I haven't told the best friend about my new romantical situation yet, She doesn't like me going out with anyone younger than me, I've had one younger boyfriend before and she was awful about the whole thing. She knows about olderboy, and she wants me to be with him also, but still understands that I've got to wait. It's not distance really, it's... hard to explain *laughs* Youngerboy is great, and I think he's gonna make me happy, as long as aliby (The best friend) doesn't make me miserable about it.

Edie, I had a boy a while back (Zstring), and while we didn't go out for NEAR as long as you and 5yearstheone, after I broke up with him and started seeing someone else Zstring came back into my life full force, and I was spending TONS of time around him and I kept thinking "Wow, should I go back to him, we're still talking, we've still got great chemistry... It could work" But then I realized, we broke up the first time for a reason. That same reason could very well cause us to break up again, and there's no use going through the same exact heartache. I stayed with my guns, kept talking to him, but just refused to see him romantically. We're still good friends. The point I think I'm trying to make is You guys broke up for a reason, and there's gonna be other guys out there for you. There will be others who make you happy (Like politenewguy) who you don't have to worry about messing up and doing the same thing as last time around. I dunno how much that helped, but I don't hold much store by the whole "If you love him set him free, if he doesn't come back it wasn't meant to be" thing. I've seen too much go wrong with on again off again relationships.
edie52
Honestly, why does your friend care that much who YOU go out with? Even my friends who are quite opinionated are still ultimately in the "whatever makes you happy" camp. I mean, aside from complete asshats/ abusive situations and whathaveyou...

Well, I wasn't with 5yearstheone for nearly that long- we were friends first, then dated/lived together for close to 3 years, and have been friends since we broke up. But I did fall for him the second I saw him. I've never experienced anything like that before or since.

Thanks for your input. That's actually the reason why I haven't pursued him in a long time in any active way. I think about what it would be like if we got back together, and I usually focus on how much we laugh, and how funny, interesting, and comfortable I feel around him. But I can value those things within our friendship, too, I guess... because I know that if we got back together there'd probably still be insecurity, jealously, and conflicts of interest. But part of me wants to believe that because we've changed so much it could be different, better. Part of me also believes that we'll end up together someday, and maybe now is not the time. Or maybe I'm just being naive.

Anyway, I really like politenewguy (and I like your names for my guys, LustfullyPink!).
LustfullyPink
Why thank you smile.gif Ultimately, it IS about what makes you happy. If you feel that you would honestly be happiest with 5yearstheone a little while down the line, after you've both done some growing up, that's what you should do. But for now, I think you should give Politenewguy a chance. I don't think it will turn out the way youngerboy and I did, you know what works for you better than I do *laughs*

Turns out Aliby was right about youngerboy, however. Two days after we got together he broke up with me via MYSPACE MESSAGE. How lame is that? I've known him for years, and I never suspected him to be the type to do that. He cited such things as "Being a really messed up person right now, not capable of holding down a girlfriend" and trying to "Figure things out with three other girls right now" so basically I was led out to water and then shoved in. *rollseyes* I'm usually pretty smart about things like this, I don't know WHAT blinded me. He ended the message with "Please don't hate." I didn't feel a Myspace message breakup glorified an actual thought out answer, so all I responded was "Um.. Okay." I'm more pissed than hurt, because we didn't go out NEAR long enough for me to get attached 'in that way', I just think it's pathetic that he would do something like that. *shrugs* You think you know a person.
Typewriter
QUOTE(glassk @ Jun 8 2007, 12:31 AM) *
so i've been sleeping with this guy for about 4/5 months. he's met my mom. my mom LOVES him. we're not actually dating. i want a DTR. I don't want anything to change, i just want to say, "my boyfriend" instead of, "that guy i'm seeing" when I talk about sex.


Girl-o-girl, do I know how that feels!
I have to wonder, is it the word "boyfriend" that freaks him out so much?
He's already basically a boyfriend, right? Nothing has to change.
I guess in my Un-boyfriend's case, it's the unavailability associated with the "boyfriend" title.
Sometimes I think he's more committed to me than he even realizes.
nova13
caught between the devil and the deep blue sea--and I need some space to talk. so I thought I'd come here to get the word from intelligent, articulate women. I've been married for almost two years. I had been with my husband for around two years before that. The relationship was never easy--he is introverted, socially awkward, and very childlike, pretty classic geekboy--and I mothered him from almost the word go. He didn't know how to take care of things, be responsible, basically be a grown up. As a person, he's wonderful, good, loves children and animals, gentle, beautiful, and I really thought all of these things would be enough to get us through. He realised that he had to learn, and kept saying he would learn to take take care of me and of things he needed to. I was writing my PhD so our existence was a bit precarious, and we started depending on each other financially pretty early on, because he was initially unemployed, and moved cities to be with me. He finally got a job, but it still didn't pay enough and we were always struggling. But a lot of that was because he just wouldn't be careful about money, think about it--his biggest problem is that when he has a problem he tries to avoid it any way he can and it keeps building up until it becomes too big to ignore.

Anyway. We got married. Both families were very enthusiastic about the idea, and we got caught up, I guess. The marriage was still rocky--when one of my best friends, who I'd always found attractive, told me he was in love with me. He and I had always got on, and he had the qualities that my husband lacked, responsible, would take care of stuff, would take care of me, and well, felt more *right* than my husband did. However, remember how I said my husband was wonderful? He said that he would be okay with us being romantically involved as long as we kept him in the loop. He and the bf were friends, and we all sat down and talked about it in a mature way and thought we could do it, being boholiberal types. The bf and I were together for four months, then broke up for a number of reasons <I'm the bf's first proper girlfriend, and he has problems of his own, and he just felt he couldn't handle a relationship>. I'm heartbroken, but carry on. One thing I do realise that the quality of my marriage seems to improve when the bf is in my life, possibly because he acts as a safety valve, and let's me be me. We become friends again, and soon enough we're falling in love all over again. This time it's absolutely wonderful. The marriage on the other hand is sliding, and my husband starts counselling to get his head together (he's started a PhD and just not coping and becoming harder and harder to live with). I can't help but compare the two and start thinking whether this marriage is really what I want. This time the bf is really reluctant to share me, and I do say that I want to give the marriage a trial period of a year, and if it doesn't work, I will leave. I guess he realises that there is always the chance I won't leave and last Sunday said that it's too hard for him to see me with my husband, but doesn't say anything about breaking up.

I felt like he forced my hand, and I said I'd stay with the husband. Because I do love him too and want to give it at least a chance. I understand that the bf knows that the longer he stays with me, the more he'd want me to leave and he just couldn't cope with the pain. I leave, feeling like I've made the wrong choice. He's now so angry that he writes me to tell me that he wouldn't even want to be with me even if I do leave my husband. I don't know whether he means it. I should also point out that I am a month away from submitting my PhD. I'm relieved, devastated at the same time, and entirely lost. I still love my husband, and think there might be hope there--but I also know what I had with the bf was entirely magical--but I *also* know that it was still early days with the bf, and I needed more time to make any kind of decision, especially such a big one. So, yeah, I'm lost, feel like I'm spinning in space and I thought I'd just throw this out there, to stem the hurt but also to hear from anyone who has anything to say--if you've read this far, thank you.
LustfullyPink
You're welcome. To me, it doesn't sound like either relationship is a particularly good one. It sounds like both men are quite immature and neither really knows how to make a woman happy or hold down a relationship. Since it sounds like Impatient BF is being an uber butt and you want to try and make things work with the hubby that you should do just that. Leave ImpatientBF and try and make things work with your husband. If that doesn't work, you've always got the seperation option. Now of course, all this is much easier said than done, but the options are out there for you. There are plenty of men out there who will love you and take care of you and can even balance a checkbook all by himself. And I know you can find one for yourself.
glassk
nova13.... i have no idea how to handle that; I can understand your confusion though. I can't even begin to imagine how hard htis is.

and typewriter=
I asked him at the worst time (sex, and we didn't have time to talk, and we were drunk)
and he says he "thinks of me as his girlfriend but he's confused"
so ........... argh. i'm just gonna wait.
I'm not sure; he is a huge part of my life, but he doesn't know about the other aspects of my life at all. He doesn't remember important things about me, and it's sortof a burr in my saddle. Other than that, everything seems good to go.
samiam
I have been conversing on this site for 9 years, and there is one guy who keeps coming back. I am in Colorado right now, where I used to live. I have always kept in touch with the guy I dated ten years ago, when I was finishing up school, and this trip is no different. This time, though, I am single. I left him nine years ago for another guy and moved to California. I left for a lot of reasons, all of which are now forgiven, but even with the opportunity to get back together with Colorado guy (I'll call him J), I never let it get past one hook-up 6 years ago. So here I am, here he is, and he is being very overt about his desire to be with me. To be my partner. Even his friends are dropping more than hints, telling me to stay here like it is a foregone conclusion that I need to be here.

So, here's the dilemma: my flight or flight reflex is on high. I love this guy, I do, but I have a hard time being attracted to him. This is always the problem when I am faced with a real, good guy. Is it wise to settle in with a good guy, a guy who is fun and supportive and who has similar values about family, money, friends, life? Is it wise to do this even when the sex is not likely to be spectacular without serious effort on my part?
Peggy-in-FL
How do I attract? I'm a 27 yearold virgin, and I could never get a guy to even look at me. I assume there's a lot of porportinate women on here like myself. I've tried sites like Match.com, and I never get any relpies.
xexyz
QUOTE
How do I attract? I'm a 27 yearold virgin, and I could never get a guy to even look at me. I assume there's a lot of porportinate women on here like myself. I've tried sites like Match.com, and I never get any relpies.


Are you looking in the right places? I mean, look where you're posting now and look at your sig.
Peggy-in-FL
QUOTE(xexyz @ Jun 27 2007, 11:46 AM) *
Are you looking in the right places? I mean, look where you're posting now and look at your sig.

I don't get what you mean.
maimy
Samiam, this advice is only going on text, but the instinct you *appear* to be having is "no", really. And that is okay. Honestly, I think it's a nice thing when friends try to match up friends if there's really something the two share, but this sounds more like pressure, and PRESSURE is not the right way to get two people together. It sounds strange and high-sales, and being "sold" on someone is never, ever, ever a good way to begin. It doesn't work. And it sounds like too many people are too up in this business, too.

My advice - tell 'em all to shut up and let you pretend you're the driver. It's your life. You get to steer. (And sex is a deal-breaker. We might not want it to be. But it is, plain and simple. If you can't hang on that level, don't go in trying to fix things.)


Peggy, your presentation is a little abrupt. You haven't really introduced yourself to us, but are expecting in-depth feedback apparently. That is a tall order for people who don't know you at all. And if this is the way you approach advice-hunting, one wonders how you're presenting yourself elsewhere, particularly online. Are you just expecting attention, tossing out a non-sequitor into communities, conversations, or venues where you haven't troubled to get to know anyone *else*? Do you have anything to say about anyone but yourself? Do you show interest in what is going on around you, or simply attempt to turn the spotlight on your contribution? Because that doesn't really work for most people, and if your lack of intro or interest in this community is any indication, that's what you appear to be doing - and if you're doing it here you're probably doing it elsewhere. Showing interest in other people and in the world at large is a learned behavior, and it can be tricky, but it's vital to getting on and getting *real*, worthwhile attention. It's hard to tell you what your problems may be, but one guess is you're stepping off on the wrong foot. Nothing fatal - it's fixable. But if that's the case, a little behavior-modulation may be necessary.
samiam
Maimy, you're right. My instincts are telling me "no," but I want so desperately for them to be wrong. I want the "one" to show up in my life, and sometimes I wonder if my vision is so clouded by fantasy, experience, and gut-wrenching desire that I can't see what is really right. I think that a relationship is built on more than sex, but sex seems so important. Am I just turning myself away from him (and at least one other "perfect" partner years ago) because I am somehow not capable of having an adult relationship? J's friends are well-meaning. I think that they have watched him over the years and know that he loves me. Here is the real truth: I feel like I am better looking than him, and want to be with someone who I feel attracted to. It's horrible. I am a bad person. Maybe all this is the reason why I am single at 31.
LustfullyPink
SamIam I think that you are quite capable of being able to have an adult relationship. Moreso than most, I can assure you. You're in touch with your instincts, and that's always a very important thing. You know what you want (so far) and you're smart (you can tell so much about a person by the way they interact on a forum).

You're absolutely NOT a horrible person for wanting someone you're attracted to! There's got to be some sort of physical attraction somewhere for a relationship to work. And don't be afraid to admit that sex is a big bart of it too, because it is. You know the whole 'trying the car before you buy it' thing.

Right now it sounds like you're test driving a poop brown '91 broncho with no seat belts, tweed seat covers and a broken casette player, and you're thinking about buying just because it's got a Hemmi. You don't have to do that. You can get any guy you want, I'm sure of it. Don't go for the poop brown broncho when you can have a porche!! smile.gif
nickclick
sam, since you've known him for a while, if you weren't attracted to him and you aren't now, you're not going to be in the future. and he's talking and you're thinking about a long future. it's something that's either there or isn't, and you shouldn't feel guilty for not feeling it.

that being said, maybe you should evaluate what you find attractive in a partner and what you want for your future.

i've had two big loves in my life. my first was sexy and dramatic and passionate. i was instantly attracted to him. years later i left him because that passion turned to craziness and anger. or it was that all along and i didn't see it because i was too busy being hot for him.

my second is more stable, kind, goofy, calm. i didn't think he was hot when i met him. i thought he was cute. (still do!) i find him most attractive when he's doing something great. or when i realize we have so much in common, sharing a laugh, stuff like that.

my point is, heat burns away. i don't know if that's what's happening with you, but just my two cents.
samiam
Nick, I keep thinking that the point you make might be true, and that the passion is such a small part of the whole thing. There are other things about him that annoy me, and maybe that is also part of a "Real" relationship. I don't know... Lust - I, too, have had those relationships based on passion and those based on respect, and all have fallen apart. Right now I am so detached from the whole idea of sex, so at least that is not getting in the way. I was involved with another guy until he left for South America 2 weeks ago, and that was a similar situation. I had an abortion 2 1/2 weeks ago, right before N (South America boy) left, so maybe some of this is me needing some sort of companionship. He claimed that he loved me too, but I think that was part of his separation anxiety, because his declarations of love were interspersed with periods of ignoring me and not calling when he said he would. But with him, I was reluctant to commit, too. What is wrong with me?

It doesn't help that I am in colorado helping a friend with her new baby, which makes me realize just how fucked up I am. I mean, she is the biggest whiner on the planet, and someone wonderful married her!

Thanks for listening.
phobia
Oh samiam! Stop beating yourself up! Stop it right now, young lady, or I'm turning this car right around!

Ok, in all seriousness, I hear two things going on here. First, it sounds like you're looking at this like there's someting "broken" with you that a relationship will "fix." You're NOT broken! You might be going through a tough time right now, but who has never been there?! Besides, do you really think that your life would be perfect if only you had a great guy (or any guy)? Is it possible that you're feeling so down on yourself because of other reasons? It sounds to me like you're going through a bout of self-hatred ("What is wrong with me?" "how fucked up I am" "my vision is clouded ... and I can't see right"), and you need to think hard about what is ~really~ going on. Maybe once you start to work on yourself and get to a healthy and optimistic mental place, you'll attract just the kinds of guys you are looking for? It's worth a thought.

Secondly, it's important to realize is that it's ok to be single, even if other people treat you like some kind of freak. Sometimes it's the right thing for the short term, sometimes it's the right thing for the long term. You are the only one who can determine what's right for you, not you friends, or your ex boyfriend's friends, or your mom, or whoever.
samiam
Ugh. I really don't _try_ to beat myself up! A relationship is about the only thing I don't have. I mean, everything else is going really well - great job, great dog, my own place, a few great friends, a truck that runs well. I feel comfortable in my body fo the first time in my life; I mean, I am really enjoying my body and feeling good about it, not fat like I think I felt for about 25 years. So, all in all, life is good. This is why my inability to understand relationships and attraction is all the more confounding to me. I don't really feel like a relationship will "fix" me, but it might finally prove to me that I am not some sort of realtionship mutant. Seriously, this is the one area of my life which has not worked out in any way like I envision(ed) it.

You are all a bunch of wise women. Being here in Colorado I am far away from any of my confidantes. It's also summer, so everyone is busy. Having this forum to talk things out makes me feel a little more connected. Thanks.
nickclick
thanks sam!

it's good to think first about what you want in a partner and LTR while you're single, but that doesn't mean you're doing something wrong because you don't have that yet. it's also a right-place-right-time thing; you have to be in the right (mental) place, so does he. that time/place isn't always the same as our friends.

but i hear ya about it seeming easier for other people. your whiny friend may be married, but would you want who she's married to? maybe he likes being needed. my friend dates a guy who waits on her hand and foot. he may seem like the perfect boyfriend, and he is for her (a needy princess) but for me, i like my independence. i can do things for myself! but my bf is not bad because he doesn't run all my errands. he's there for me where i need it.

it's like puzzle pieces, you fit into each other where the other lacks, although not always perfectly of course. so now's the time to figure out what you need from someone, and what you offer, so when you see it, you'll know it. and hopefully he's hotttttttttttt....

so trust yourself. J and his friends may think he's your perfect match, but figure it out for yourself! don't try to force a fit (to proudly re-introduce my puzzle analogy!)
stargazer
maimy, nick, and phobia...you Busties give such great advice!!


sam, i can relate to you. i feel the EXACT same way. but, the others do have a point. i've been lookin' at what i want in a relationship. and talking with my friends in relationships is helping to know what i need to discuss with potential partners during the whole courtship phase. not that everything will be perfect.

i also believe there is someone for everyone. and yes, i've held the same belief when i see some crazy people and think, "how come they are in a relationship and not me?" it is part working on self esteem issues, (i.e. i'm defective and i will be complete when i have ____) and part wanting to share your life with someone. it sounds like you are open sam to sharing yourself with someone, which i think is a good sign that you are open for a relationship. but, like nick said, don't force yourself to partner with someone just because you know you are both looking for a relationship. either you like him or you don't. i don't think you are being judgemental. you just don't have the same feelings.

sam, thanks for sharing your story...it is helping me alot too. cause i'm feeling the same way.
dayglowpink
deleted
laurenann
i usually post these sorts of things in the socially inept dorks thread, but i could use some advice from busties who are more socially, uh, ept? or whatever. i need help!

let's say i go on a date some time soon (*fingers crossed*) and we are talking and stuff, because i'm much better at making conversation than i used to be. but what do i do when we are done talking about one thing? i need a new thing to talk about so there are no awkward pauses. what are some good, interesting, cool things to say or ask when the conversation stops? besides, like, "so, do you come here a lot?"

i just don't want to feel lame. thanks smile.gif...
stargazer
laurenann, give us a background of the potential date-r. where are you going? is there an activity involved? i'm kinda freakish social so i can talk with anyone about anything. usually. unless i get the sense that someone just doesn't want to talk. and it doesn't have to do with me, but they are just introverted. whatevah. i guess, what do you usualy do in social situations?? just curious.

dayglowpink, that sounds like a rough situation. from my perspective, it doesn't sound like a relationship. cause if a person loved you, then i just feel things would be clearer. at least where you stood with him. at least that's what i think. if you are comfortable with the setup, then have fun. just remember, people only treat you the way you allow them to treat you.
laurenann
ooh, stargazer, there aren't really any potential dates. i think i'm getting ahead of myself! but it's just that i haven't been single for almost FIVE YEARS and the whole idea is freaking me out. i know i should be natural and relaxed, but my anxious self wants to be ready to go when the situation comes up.

i'm moving in three weeks and have mentally set that as a deadline to get back in the game, so to speak. i'll be new to the city, so i guess that'll be a good topic of conversation for a while. i tend to be shy and settle for guys that are... well... not to sound conceited or anything... guys who i'm kind of out of their league. and i don't want to do that any more. i've heard a million times that your supposed to get people to talk about themselves, but i'm not sure how to do that without sounding cheesy or boring.
edie52
Laurenann, I'm trying to think of what I've done or said when conversations have gone really well. Some of it's definitely dependant on the chemistry, so in that sense good conversation is a good indicator of whether or not you'll want to continue to date the person. Sorry for totally stating the obvious... other than that, it should be in a place where it's pleasant and easy to make conversation- nothing loud or distracting, though some distraction might be good for conversation, or to turn your attention to when there's a lull in conversation. I'm thinking a quiet-ish sit-down music show (which was my last good first date). Or maybe a walk, because the scenery's constantly changing, so usually the conversation flows, and it's easier to relax and not tense up when you're moving your body. Getting people to talk about themselves obviously involves asking questions, and all I usually do to avoid being cheesy is avoid phrasing them in really typical, cliched ways. Being genuinely interested helps too (but maybe not overzealous), and talking about yourself as well to segue into other things.

So, I've been dating this guy for over 2 months. I posted about him a little while ago, concerning some uncertainty I was having over residual feelings about my ex. Those feelings got pretty much sorted out when I realized that I'm probably in love with my new boyfriend, or on my way there. Everything's been going really well, he's affectionate, talented, sexy, he likes me, it's pretty much everything I could ask for so far.

Here's the problem: well, the general problem is that my last boyfriend broke my heart and now I have this incredible anxiety abut getting hurt again. Which I realize is probably very common and totally normal. This leads to insecurity and makes me imagine that his feelings have suddenly changed, or that his family/friends don't like me, and that it's all going to blow up in my face and I won't be okay. Now for the more specific part: he has this (female) friend who's been around recently, they haven't known each other for all that long (though longer than I've known him), and their connection/history is kinda vague. He hasn't bothered explaining anything to me, only refering to her as "my friend so-and-so," but I definitely sense a certain tension, especially when it's the 3 of us together. I don't dislike her, or even particularly distrust either of them, but this is eating away at me. I just want to know what their deal is, but I'm afraid if I ask him my insecurities will all explode like a can of worms. And I don't want him to think that I'm saying he shouldn't hang out with her (though in all honesty it wouldn't disappoint me if that happened...except that it would set a bad pattern in our relationship). He also seems to have ex-girlfriends popping up left and right, and he never bothers to explain the story. I've pretty much been an open book with him. This is really bugging me. I know I should probably just ask in a non-crazy way, I'm just so afraid to go there because insecurity/jealousy has been my achilles heel in past relationships, and at this point I haven't expressed any of it to him because I don't want to push him away or come off as needy. And I do feel needy. I want to change that though, and I guess I thought that not talking about it might make it go away. (Obviously not.) Can anyone relate?
phobia
Laurenann -- Honestly, my best advice is to read up on current events and listen to NPR or something, because then you always have something to say -- "hey, have you heard about xx?" Or "oh, you do Y? I just heard on NPR that the Y industry is really booming!"

For example, here are 2 conversations that I wouldn't have thought could get off the ground but were possible because one person was able to come up with something:

In a cab:
Guy to cabdriver: So, where are you from originally?
Cabdriver: Morrocco, actually.
Guy: Oh, I just heard on the news that the crown prince is involved in a bit of a scandal! What do you think about that?

This is my favorite...
Me, at our company christmas party to person on my right: So, you're George's wife, what do you do?
Her: I'm, well, actually, I'm a lunchlady.
Me: Oh, I heard on the news recently that the school lunch program is being overhauled. Do you think the kids will like healthier foods?

All I mean is that it's important not only to think of interesting stuff to say, but to be genuinely interested in the other person. If I can make intelligent conversation with a lunch lady at my company xmas party, I'm sure making conversation with a hottie that you're interested in will be easy! Have confidence, read, and be interested!
stargazer
edie, have you just asked, "So, what happened with that relationship?" It seems to do the trick for me. But, I kinda have this freakish Mumford effect on people and they end up telling me more then they expected. I think because I'm relaxed and give off a nonjudgemental, accepting vibe. which that is how i am, anyway. it is non threatening. we are all nosey of exes. i guess i'm curious how would this information help you with your relationship with him? i'm just wonderin.'

laurenann, i like the feedback phobia gave you. activities are always good because then you have something to talk about. i think being new to the city will help you. but, i think just expressing needing/wanting help brings out chilvary in men. when i've been out to eat and asked them what they recommend if they've been to the restaurant before me. one time, when i was waiting for the chicago busties at this local bar, i asked some men who seemed to know their belguim beer for advice and what i should drink....and they totally loved it. they were very eager to help out. so, men want to feel needed and wanted just like us. oh, remember, you aren't the only one who needs to show interest. make sure he works for you too. you don't want a guy who will ONLY talk about himself. he needs to show his interest too.

man, every time i give relationship advice, i think "and i'm single, why?" laugh.gif
edie52
Yeah, it's not neccessarily relevant or helpful to our relationship, which is why I have trouble asking. It can be healthy to know about your new partner's past experiences... though maybe their is such a thing as too much information.

I'm most concerned though, not about the former girlfriends, but about this ambiguous friend of his that makes me feel uneasy. And I hate that I always end up feeling threatened in relationships, but I don't know how to change my way of thinking and acting in situations like that. And I'm wondering if it's generally best to be really open with him about all my feelings, or to keep some stuff to myself.

I don't even think I have any reason to feel threatened! He acts like he's crazy about me. I really don't want to fuck this up.
stargazer
edie, does he act differently when this other woman is around? does this friend act strangely towards you? i guess i'm just wonderin' what makes you uncomfortable. and it is ok if you don't like the thought of them being friends. go with your gut instinct. this woman could be sending some bad vibes your way and feel threatened by you. hang in there.
nickclick
edie, i think it's fair to ask about their relationship, and his past relationships, at this point in your relationship. like, "she's nice, why didn't you ever date her?" in which case he may say that they did. or anything else, who knows. either way, he's dating YOU!!!!!!!!!
edie52
I guess my discomfort comes from a combination of things. The first being that she's really gorgeous and also seems to click with him. She's nice to me, but I still sense some weird vibes. As for the way he acts, it is somewhat different, but that could just be because he senses the weird vibes between us.

I find myself wishing that I'd asked him about their history when I first met her, now it seems like such a loaded question.

Anyway, I think everything's okay because we did talk, not about her but about my general feelings of insecurity and fear of being hurt. He was really reassuring and told me he loved me (for the first time) so I think I should just suck it up.
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