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shinyx3
snarky, some argument is good.
samiam
A paradox for the Bust Panel whom I love so much:

I am suffering an embarrassment of riches. I know, I know, shut up samiam and get on with it, but here is my problem: I am dating. I love dating. i am having a ball dating. Among the candidates are two strong contenders, a 36-year-old financial planner who is all man and with whom I have a lot in common, and a 30-year-old PhD candidate from Spain, whose blue eyes, easy laugh, and astounding skills in bed make me melt. The financial planner (oh hell, his name is Mike) is from New England, like me, owns a home, has good friends, is generous and sweet, yet I don't find him super attractive. He is kind of boring in bed, so far, which could be a stumbling block for me. He is, however, a mensch. He helped me put insulation in my house, for God's sake! He's also an ex-marine, which is a little scary to me. Mike is showing all the signs of wanting to be serious -- introducing me to his friends, talking about meeting his family, holding doors, etc.

But there there is the Blue-eyed Spaniard. He is sweet, smart, funny, and I have had more orgasms with him than anyone else I have ever slept with. He is sexually adventurous. I like him. I don't know if there is a future with him, but the present is very, very fun. And he's smart. I mean, he's getting a PhD in psychology in English! I speak Spanish, so we converse in a nice patois of the two languages, and I like the challenge.

I have only been hanging out with these guys for a month or less, and there has never been talk of being exclusive with either. Am I a whore because I am enjoying the fun of dating?
nickclick
sam, enjoy it and see where it takes you. until the topic of exclusivity comes up with either of them, you're doing nothing wrong.
likeanyother
Here's one:

How does everyone feel about and/or what has been people's experiences with a boyfriend who has girl friends (with a space), and one girl friend in particular who he is very close with. Yes, this is my boyfriend. He has been friends with this girl longer than he has known me. At first I was apprehensive but just when I was coming to terms with it, and actually starting to become friends with her (she's really cool, ya see) I find out (unbeknownst to him -or her for that matter) that he has had a major crush on her, but it was just "bad timing" that they never hooked up.

So, I guess what I'm wondering is, would you trust your boyfriend to be close friend with a girl (a cute, cool at that)? What about one that he has had feelings for (that he never admitted to) in the past? Advice would be very very very much appreciated. Thanks.

p.s. I'm kinda new, so, Hi everyone!
crazyoldcatlady
welcome, likeanyother!

okay, so i know i'm going to get flamed for this, but YES. i think you SHOULD be wary.

i didn't always feel this way, because *i* was that girl_friend. i was the friend of the dude with the girl who wanted to knife me. "why does she have to be a cunt?" i'd think. "we're just FRIENDS." this went on all late teens-early 20's where guy friend after guy friend's girlfriends wholly disliking me, no matter if i played nice or not.

i always thought it was platonic, on my end at least. we'd physically horse around, hug, hang out a lot (maybe more than he with she). the guy would come to me if they were having problems, and vent. (after a while, *i* was those problems.) i still couldn't figure out why the girl thought i was a threat.

until each one, systematically, came to me after they broke up looking for more. it was a sad day when i discovered the land of Platonia didn't exist. even if i wasn't interested, they were. hence, the rule that: at some point in time during a male-female hetero friendship, one/other/both will have more than platonic feelings for the other at some course in the friendship. (Flame away, all those who are saying to themselves, "ew, he's like a brother to me!" well, you're his dirty step-sister and you don't know it.)

okay, so enough about me. for you:

basically, it's gonna be a bad scene if:
1. if he doesn't/can't/won't do things with or talk about things with you that he does with her
2. she's hetero
3. she's single/in an unstable relationship (not fool-proof though)
4. he's confessed past crushdom and they're still talking on a daily basis
5. spends more time with her than you
6. spends the majority of the time with you talking about her
7. they endured something intense together (a tragedy, a life-change, etc)
8. if they've EVER hooked up
9. if he's ever lotioned her legs at three in the morning in a supermarket parking lot because he put too much lotion into his hands and needed to put it somewhere. oh wait, that was me. whoopsy.


common sense stuff...?
edie52
My bf has several female friends, and I honestly don't think he has a thing for all of them. I also have several male friends, and there are some that I've had a thing for in the past (okay most, so I guess you're right, catlady), but none that I'd leave my current boyfriend for.

That said, likeanyother, you know he's had a thing for her in the past. Obviously you're threatened. You're only human. I have a kind of similar situation; my bf has one girl friend in particular who I feel totally weird about. I haven't asked him about it and I don't really know the nature of their relationship (but she's not a direct threat right now due to geography). These kinds of girls are way more threatening than ex-girlfriends.

That being said, I don't know what you can do, or whether you should do anything. It might feel good to talk to him about, so he understands your feelings. Maybe he'll reassure you. I dunno. But I think the bottom line is you just have to trust him. The moment you try to start controlling him and tell him who he can and can't see is when things can begin to turn very sour. I'm sure you don't want to be that controlling. Even if they stopped hanging out, he could meet/see other girls he likes or is attracted to. But he's with you, and as long as he wants to be he'll stay with you. I know this probably isn't comforting, but relationships involve risk, right?
Mr Pugs
Likeanyother, this situation rings familiar for me. I have (had) this female friend named Jenn since 1st grade (I'm 27). When puberty hit she got pretty well endowed and seems to make other girls catty. I never cared about this. I viewed her as a crazy little sister. When she started dating, it always made her boyfriends jealous (she seems to be an asshole magnet) that she had other male friends so I kept myself on the back burner. The relationship then turned into an advice/bitch buddy kinda thing. She would complain to me things that her boyfriends did and ask for advice. I did the same. LoveMyPugs felt threatened by Jenn based on apperance (which is understandable) and it started causing a rift with us. LMP never gave me an ultimatum, but I could see that if things continued the way they were one would come up. I then had to make a choice of which is more important, a long time friend/bitch buddy, or the woman I love. I still run into Jenn once in a while, but try not to make contact. To make that decision sucked, but every relationship takes sacrifice.

I guess that was my long winded way of saying that contrarary to what has happened to others, there is a chance that it is purely platonic. Do you give him an ultimatum? Roll the dice and hope for the best? I would honestly explain how your situation makes you feel and let him offer suggestions on how to help you feel better.
nickclick
yeah likeanyother, talk to him. ask why they never dated. where did you hear that he's always had a crush on her? maybe it's not entirely true. trust him to tell you the whole story. if not, then worry.

i have and had quite a few boy (space) friends. some are attractive and some aren't. they're good guys and fun to hang out with or talk to, but none were boyfriend material. and yeah, despite every friends or 70s show episode, there's something about growing up with someone that makes them seem like a sibling rather than a love interest.
likeanyother
First, thank you so much for your sensitive and insightful responses. It’s so hard sometimes to get an “independent” perspective when all my friends are naturally biased and non-objective in relation to such situations.

To fill in some of the details, when I first met him I actually thought ‘girl’ was his girlfriend ‘cuz they were together the first couple times I saw him around. His response was, “nope, we’re just friends, but she just broke up with her boyfriend, so I don’t know…” I thought that was a bit ambiguous, but we weren’t really dating yet, so I let it go. Then after we had been together for a few months (it’s been about year now) I asked him again after some stuff happened that nagged at me (like him blowing me off to go hang out with her, seeing movies with her that he said he would see with me, him being her “date” at a wedding ‘cuz “she didn’t have anyone else to go with”, etc.). To which he said, in a way that made me feel like a jealous harpie: “We’re just friends. If we were going to hook up, don’t you think we would have done it by now?!” I trust him and didn’t want to create and worry about a situation when there really wasn’t one, so I let it go again.

So I was accepting of it, both because of his reassurance and because I have guy friends as well. It really didn’t become a serious problem until recently when I found out about the past secret crush he had on her. And the reason I’m reluctant to bring it up with him is because I found out about it by reading one of his old notebooks. I actually came across it innocently, as he’s a writer and lets me read his stuff, although I suppose I should have stopped reading when it became apparent I was reading a journal entry rather than his writing, I couldn’t help myself. It wasn’t anything really bad, but it was enough to make it clear that he had a crush on her, but couldn’t date her because of her (now ex) boyfriend. It was at the end of the notebook, so I didn’t get to read further to see if anything actually happened between them. It’s such a shady way to find out a private thing that I kept it to myself, but now it’s eating away at me and that’s why I’m so conflicted.

I think after reading you guys’ advice I should say something to him. Though I probably shouldn’t tell him what I read, I will tell him that he needs to be honest with me about their relationship. I’m just worried he’s going to give me the same “just friends” response and act annoyed that I’m bringing it up again. Which will make me wonder: is it because he still has something to hide? Or because he worries that telling me the truth about his past crush will make a current conflict out of something that’s nothing? I guess I’ll see…. Thanks again, so much, for the input.
edie52
You should let us know how it goes, likeanyother.

I'm getting mad at myself for getting so jealous of a girl who does not even live in the same city as my boyfriend! It's crazy. I have dreams about them. It's that I wonder what happened in their past but more that I see something happening in the future. I got mad today because he said something that simply alluded to her existence (he didn't even say her name).

I trust him. But should I once and for all let him know what's going on inside me? At the risk of revealing my jealous, needy, insecure, irrational side? I'm wary of saying it because I can never take it back. Right now it seems much easier to pass it off as something else when I get in a mood about it. But it festers.
shinyx3
festers huh, i know all about that too well. i think you better talk to him, because if you do not you will just get more and more pissy about it. (i would anyway)
edie52
Thanks shiny. I guess I've decided that I will wait until we're in person (next month) to talk about it. I don't like the possibility of it going all wrong on the phone, and then not being able to see him to patch it up.
shinyx3
oh i totally agree, that convo over the phone could be really bad. i think waiting is a good idea. in the mea time try not to think about it. good luck.
likeanyother
Well, I did finally bring it up with boy. I waited until it fit in with the conversation we were having and I basically asked him if he would be dating her if he wasn’t with me, to which he characteristically scoffed a little and said “no.” So I pressed him a bit more until he admitted that yes, he had a bit of a crush on her when they first met. But he assured me that although he may have had past feelings for her, he truly likes me more, and that’s why their relationship evolved into a friendship, and ours evolved into a ‘romantic’ relationship. When I expressed to him that I felt somewhat uncomfortable knowing they were hanging out while having this paranoia in the back of my head, he understood that it wasn’t me trying to control him, but just wanting to know the truth so that I wouldn’t have to worry. Saying it like this, instead of having it be a controlling/attacking situation made him more sensitive and receptive to how his actions were perceived by me. Since he wasn’t being defensive I felt like our talk was honest and I really know now how he feels, and I’m satisfied.

I’ve realized that it’s a tenuous and fine line between real jealousy and false jealousy. It’s hard to tell if you’re just being paranoid out of your own insecurity, or if you’re actually tapping into a sort of ‘sixth sense’ instinct that knows when there’s something wrong. I think the only way to find out the truth is to look at the facts of the situation, look inside yourself and your relationship history, and then to talk to him about it. At least that’s what I’ve done and it seems to have come out okay. Edie, it seems like you are aware when your feelings delve from the justified into the irrational, and you should definitely sort that out before you talk to him. But then do talk to him. I’m sure your conversation, if done honestly, will tell you what you need to know and hopefully alleviate your jealousy.
edie52
Thanks, likeanyother. I know what you mean about the fine line between jealousy that's justified and jealousy that's irrational. And even though I know about that line I still have trouble differentiating between the two when these feelings take hold of me. With this girl, my friend even agreed that there were some weird vibes when she was around- but I also realized it could have been her tapping into my feelings of being threatened, and bf feeling caught in the middle, and all of this affecting the situation without it ever being spoken.

So I definitely will talk to him, when the time is right.
likeanyother
Edie, I'd love to hear how the talk goes if you're willing to share.

Right now I feel almost resigned to the fact that my saga is never going to end. I thought things were a-okay, until last night when my invite of "Want to go to a teenage punk show with me tonight?" was met with a "Can't, I'm watching the Office wtih MM" (I dub her). So I said "FTW" and went with my roommate. She took me out for drinks after the show and I was totally over the dis when guess who walks in? You'll never guess. Oh right, myBF and MM... Predicatably the night ended with a beer-soaked fight. So much for the drama-free lifestyle I've been trying to lead. Stupid.
mouser
Hey there. I'm new here. But I've been reading these posts (hopefully trying to get some insight into my own relationship).

Reading your post, my gut reaction is, he's getting off on seeing you jealous. I know this is a gross generalization, but men are more manipulative then we give them credit for.




QUOTE(likeanyother @ Nov 16 2007, 03:12 PM) *
Edie, I'd love to hear how the talk goes if you're willing to share.

Right now I feel almost resigned to the fact that my saga is never going to end. I thought things were a-okay, until last night when my invite of "Want to go to a teenage punk show with me tonight?" was met with a "Can't, I'm watching the Office wtih MM" (I dub her). So I said "FTW" and went with my roommate. She took me out for drinks after the show and I was totally over the dis when guess who walks in? You'll never guess. Oh right, myBF and MM... Predicatably the night ended with a beer-soaked fight. So much for the drama-free lifestyle I've been trying to lead. Stupid.

zoya
likeanyother - warning, tough love coming..

fuck that shit. It's one thing to have a friend who is a girl who he talks to on the phone or email, and hangs now and then. But to fucking throw YOU over for her when you call, and then show up to the bar? No fucking way. He's having his cake and eating it too. Sorry, but this strikes a nerve with me - I had the same kind of dynamic in my relationship with a (long ago) ex. He admitted years later that he definitely did have a healthier-than-admitted interest in her at the time - he never consummated it or anything, but he did admit that it had definitely been detrimental to our relationship and that he had been being spineless at the time. It totally fucked my relationship having a 3rd person there that he made quite often more important than me.

I'm not saying that's 100% in play here, but I see red flags. beware.

Just saying this cause I care.
crazyoldcatlady
omg, likeanyother. that is shiteous. was it an honest-to-goodness fight? FACK.

i hate the drama too, i've put a 5 day limit on it. which, i think is actually probably 4 days 23 hours too much. i just spent the last week getting jerked around, and to be in square one again is painful and, to put it mildly, disheartening.

and, in a fearless soul search that has led to what i am sure is a new ulcer on top of my pre-existing ones, i've come to the sad, sad realization that in the past 8 years (YEARS!) every (EVERY!) new "kissee" has involved being under the influence of alcohol by both parties.

sad, for multiple reasons:
1, apparently i'm only kissworthy when the beer goggles have been securely fastened?
2, this means that both I and the kissee must giant pussies if we can't do it soberly; and
3, in black-and-white text, this really makes it sound like i'm an alcoholic. and then i think, well, i'm more of a binge drinker, as if this is better (kind of like, i'm not a smoker, but i have a month-old pack in my car)....... but i digress. (taking continued rant to the frustrated singles thread...)

edie- that's always a hard call, esp. when you're in the thick of a relationship and can't see the forest for/through the trees; on one hand, you want to be Susie Girlfriend and be trusting, but on the other, it's like dayum, am i gonna have to cut a bitch? wink.gif

and mouser, i hate to be a cynic (HA! okay, i like it really), but i agree with you wholeheartedly.
candycane_girl
likeanyother, I have to agree with what everyone else has said. He couldn't go out with you because he was watching TV with her?! If I was in a committed relationship I would not be putting up with that crap. Because usually when I invite a guy over to watch TV that means about 10 minutes of actual TV watching and then however long it takes us to have sex. Just saying.

You shouldn't have to put up with this kind of crap, you definitely deserve better.
edie52
QUOTE
edie- that's always a hard call, esp. when you're in the thick of a relationship and can't see the forest for/through the trees; on one hand, you want to be Susie Girlfriend and be trusting, but on the other, it's like dayum, am i gonna have to cut a bitch?


Exactly! LOL. And the "am I gonna have to cut a bitch" sentiment is quite strong, but it's exactly what I don't want to show when I talk to him about it. Definitely not the first time.

Likeanyother, the more you tell us, the more I agree with the other busties. Time for another talk? What a shitty position to be in though. I personally would hate to issue any ultimatums or rules and become the mom-girlfriend, but g*d knows I would want to.
crazyoldcatlady
HA! so, i had to post this; i thought ya'll might appreciate this:

i was listening to Ms. Amos's "She's Your Cocaine" and looked up the lyrics on hereinmyhead.com, which also has little notes about the who/what/why of the song c/o Tori herself. And this was culled from a May 98 UK interview (the bolding is mine):

I: Tell me about She's Your Cocaine. It reminds me of Heart Attack At 23 from your Y kant Tori Read days.
T: Really! (Laughs) You know, I think it is a reference to my rock chick days, but realised in a different way. There are three characters in that song - a he and a she and the girl singing it. I haven't quite figured out if the girl singing is really pissed off that she isn't special anymore, or if she is just horrified that she put this guy on a pedestal and he's now he's chosen this thing... this girl who wouldn't even be let into a real girl's party. This... black hole of nebulai.
I: That isn't very sisterly of you.
T: I think your own sex can see your sex for what it is. You know the tricks of your own sex. Sometimes you can put your little play glasses on and not want to see them. But I know when another woman is flirting with one of my crew - it's so obvious and yet they can't see it. They say 'oh she's so pained' or 'she's had all this stuff happen to her'. I know a girl like this - who uses her victimness to make people feel they can't do enough for her, that nothing is ever enough. And you're like an addict. You can't spill enough blood, you can't wrap your dick into seventeen different little shapes, y'know, like those balloons. 'Here... look! Puppy! Ice cream truck!' This song is my revenge.

lol!
i love her.
stargazer
oh COCL, that's a great article. funny. i see it all the time with some women.
hcbeck
Some further information on long-term crushes from the man's point of view.

The woman in this case was the typical girl next door. I've known her since her family moved in next door to me over twenty years ago. I started crushing on her when we were about 16 or 17. I didn't understand it at the time.

A few years ago I realised that she taught me the meaning of love. Even though she was in a long-term relationship with someone else and that she lived in another country... I realised that I had come up with a definition of love. At last I realised that I could love someone. Although she was in no position to be with me, I was happy that the feeling was possible in me.

Since then I had a long-term friendship with another woman. I have strong suspicions that she crushed on me. I wanted to be just good friends with her. It would have been very convenient for me and great for her if I could have felt something for her. There was no attraction there. I thought nothing less of this friend. She was no fool.

This has helped me deal with my unrequited love for my Girl Next Door. She's since got married. We're still friends. We are close enough that we have talked about all this over the years. I understand that she feels the same about me as I did about the woman crushing on me. As a best friend, GND would have loved to fall in love with me - because that would have made me very very happy. But to fake the feeling to make me happy, until she met the man who made her feel the love for real would be wrong.

Of course any new woman in my life will feel threatened by my best friendship with GND. Luckily she still lives in another country, but it will be very difficult for them to compete with the idealised relationship that I hoped could have had with GND. I suppose I shouldn't bring up GND for a few weeks or months into any new relationship... It feels odd not to talk about your best friend with the woman you love.

It's all part of the "Be completely honest with the people in your life unless that honesty will hurt them" rule. A rule that I'm not too sure about yet, but I'm testing it out from now on as total honesty didn't work out too well for me in my last relationship (not honesty about GND in this case).
glassk
i'm going snowboarding on saturday with a girl friend i haven't seen since last year. i think we're gonna go partying and i kinda want to find a snowboarding boy who lives in whistler so i have a bed to sleep in when i go there........ (secret fantasy) but most likely i will not because i look like a boy when i'm riding and i don't like to ditch my friends at the bar. so... we'll see.
likeanyother
…10 years later….

Say it ain’t so! Seriously, your advice is all too good and I am more conflicted than ever. We’ve had multiple talks about how his doings with other girls are making me feel, and he’s continually reassured me that I have nothing to worry about (while continually doing nothing different). I convince myself that he’s right. He’s everything I ever wanted in a boy (as far as mental/physical/intellectual/humor-level connections), so of course I want to believe him.

My last relationship was rife with jealousy/possessiveness issues and all I thought I wanted was a “progressive” sort of relationship in which we can be friends with members of the opposite sex, we can hang out separately from time to time and have no worries about our relationship, we can have independent interests and things going on but have no insecurity about what the other person is doing.

I still think a relationship like that is possible. I thought I was in it. I think I’m wrong. I think he’s beyond that and he’s walking a fine line with flirtatious friendships that will eventually lead to him cheating on me. I can't become the controlling mom-girlfriend that edie was talking about, I don't think that would be healthy for either of us. So my big conflict is whether it is repairable or if I have to end it. I don’t want to end it! Because I’ll be ending a relationship with the love of my life over minor details, small disappointments, possibilities rather than realities.

I keep coming up with ways to change things for the better without having to end it. So I guess my next question is, has anyone done the ‘temporary break’ thing and had it work out? From what I’ve seen breaks are just a way to ease into an actual break-up. But I don’t want that. But nothing changes. We live across the street from eachother and right now I feel like if we don’t stay together the only thing I can do is move out of this country. I’ve been wanting to anyway. If we break up I think I’ll be broken enough to not care about the practicalities and just do it.
dani1983
You should trust your instincts, most of the time they are right. Especially because we are women, we have that 6th sense, it has never failed me:-)

BUT it is failing me with this guy I'm dating now. Like you, "likeanyother", i think this guy I'm dating is walking the fiiiine line between jut flirty friends and actual cheating. Actually, I do think he's cheating right now. Maybe he isn't. Maybe i'm just paranoic but if I am its his damn fault. He has cheated on his ex gfs before, hell he cheated on his crazy ass ex gf with ME (god bless karma) and if I know something is that cheaters always cheat. I just had this little/huge fight with him this morning before he left for work. We live together and he told me i was fucking crazy and that he was going to move out asap. What happened is that last night I was laying next to him with my head on his lap and he just moved a little and I smelled something. this might sound nasty (I'm sorry if it does!) but it smelled like sex. Like you know that smell that lingers in the air after sex, is not unpleasant, but its there? And we hadnt had sex for 2 days mind you, and he took a shower the day before! so i was like wtf is THIS!??! where is it coming from? So i told him i smelled that this morning and that's when he told me i was crazy. Has this ever happened to any of you? If there are guys here, can there be a reason for a guy's crotch area to smell like sex, besides actually having sex? My friend told me that maybe he jerked off, but I don't think that would make him smell like sex right? Maybe he wore dirty boxers(which he does a lot of times) and its just an old smell? Can there be any other explanation for this, or is he def hooking up with someone on the side?? ahh sad.gif
crazyoldcatlady
dani, for the sake of brevity:

girl, he's cheating.
pepper
QUOTE(crazyoldcatlady @ Dec 1 2007, 03:30 PM) *
dani, for the sake of brevity:

girl, he's cheating.


sorry, sounds like it.

this sounds like one of those situations where you might kick yourself later and say "i Knew it!"

unless you really are paranoic.
stargazer
if it smells like shit, looks like shit, and sounds like shit, then gurl, your gut is right.
dani1983
[quote name='pepper' date='Dec 1 2007, 03:46 PM' post='17

unless you really are paranoic.
[/quote]

I am. And I'm the first one to admit it. My friends are like "girl STOP being this paranoic, you are going over the top" and I know I am, but as I said before, he has cheated before and so have I. I'm starting to think it was just my imagination. I mean, you know how there are always signs hat he's cheating? well he doesn't give any sign whatsoever. When he's not working he's with me ALL the time, and no shadiness with the phone either, nor any weird phone calls or nothing. When he goes home to visit his family he brings me with him. I think me being paranoid is my auto-defense so he won't hurt me. And I know I'm way tooo freaking paranoid and if someone was like that with me I would leave him, and I know that he never does ANYTHING to make me think hes cheating, he even goes out of his way to prove me how much he cares and everything, its just that im being paranoid. About the smell, I still don't have any explanation. Maybe it was ball sweat(sorry for the nastiness haha) , dirty boxers(which he doesnt changes for days) or maybe something else. I don't know :-/ aaaa all this bad karma is coming back to me! well it better comes back to him too! but im not stupid, and I'm going to keep my eyes and my ears open for ANY sign of him being unfaithful. And if he is, i'll kick his flat ass out of my place in oneee second!
dani1983
[quote name='pepper' date='Dec 1 2007, 03:46 PM' post='17

unless you really are paranoic.
[/quote]

I am. And I'm the first one to admit it. My friends are like "girl STOP being this paranoic, you are going over the top" and I know I am, but as I said before, he has cheated before and so have I. I'm starting to think it was just my imagination. I mean, you know how there are always signs hat he's cheating? well he doesn't give any sign whatsoever. When he's not working he's with me ALL the time, and no shadiness with the phone either, nor any weird phone calls or nothing. When he goes home to visit his family he brings me with him. I think me being paranoid is my auto-defense so he won't hurt me. And I know I'm way tooo freaking paranoid and if someone was like that with me I would leave him, and I know that he never does ANYTHING to make me think hes cheating, he even goes out of his way to prove me how much he cares and everything, its just that im being paranoid. About the smell, I still don't have any explanation. Maybe it was ball sweat(sorry for the nastiness haha) , dirty boxers(which he doesnt changes for days) or maybe something else. I don't know :-/ aaaa all this bad karma is coming back to me! well it better comes back to him too! but im not stupid, and I'm going to keep my eyes and my ears open for ANY sign of him being unfaithful. And if he is, i'll kick his flat ass out of my place in oneee second!
nickclick
QUOTE(dani1983 @ Dec 1 2007, 01:54 PM) *
You should trust your instincts, most of the time they are right. Especially because we are women, we have that 6th sense, it has never failed me:-)


dani, you should take your own advice!
dani1983
QUOTE(nickclick @ Dec 3 2007, 11:48 AM) *
dani, you should take your own advice!

Oh I definitely do ;-) the difference is that in this case I don't know if its my 6th sense telling me that or my paranoia going to the extreme. Just to give you an example of how paranoid I am, if I see that he's online on myspace for example, immediately after I see him online I start making up all this drama in my head, like "oohh hes online looking at girls' profiles and I bet he's messaging them right now while I'm here at work" and I just push myself into being more and more paranoid. It's pretty sad, I wish I wasn't this paranoid sad.gif
neurotic.nelly
Those who whine about not being in relationship or whateva!!!! Damn!!!! Right now I find it hard to simpathize...., whatevea!!!

SEX IS SEX!!!

Everything else presents itself as such@!!!!!

There really are no surpises, a man, especially, tells you who he is nonverbally right off the bay...!!!
pepper
pst, the inerbriated rambling thread is over here. wink.gif
bunniegraves
QUOTE(dani1983 @ Dec 3 2007, 07:32 PM) *
Oh I definitely do ;-) the difference is that in this case I don't know if its my 6th sense telling me that or my paranoia going to the extreme. Just to give you an example of how paranoid I am, if I see that he's online on myspace for example, immediately after I see him online I start making up all this drama in my head, like "oohh hes online looking at girls' profiles and I bet he's messaging them right now while I'm here at work" and I just push myself into being more and more paranoid. It's pretty sad, I wish I wasn't this paranoid sad.gif



i totally sympathize with you. i get paranoid all the time. the reason i know im paranoid is because his behavior doesnt support the cheating theory
likeanyother
As lame and stereotypical as it sounds, most men are not like most women in relationships. From the few I've had, I've noticed a common thread, which is that men in relationships don't need as much reassurance as women do. Unless there's a blatant problem, they assume everything is fine, and they assume that the woman feels pretty much the same way they do. Generalizations be damned, women have hard time with this, they think, they over-think, they analyze, they over-analyze, they read into things, etc. etc. They're both forms of assumption, just in opposite ways, I guess.

I don't know if this makes any sense, but I guess what I'm trying to say is that the only way to reconcile this is to have as honest a relationship as possible, know how he thinks and help him understand how you think, and then try to come to a middle ground. As in, you'll try to be less paranoid, if he'll try to be more reassuring, and more conscious of the things he does that might make you wonder. That's what my boyfriend and I are trying, and so far it seems to be working. Of course if he is cheating on me, I'll end up being a total fool, but at least I'll know that I was true and I tried my best at having a healthy, honest relationship. If he fucks that up, at least I'll know it was him, not me, and I won't have any regrets....
edie52
I agree with you, likeanyother. And it sounds like you're on the right track. The reassurance thing- I've tried to explain this to my boyfriend, giving the excuse that "I'm a woman, and we're more likely to be like this or need that," and he always gives me shit for generalizing. Sometimes I think he's more of a feminist than I am! I realize that men get insecure as well, but they don't do the fishing-for-reassurance thing that many women do. I think it's partially that we're socialized to need it more, even seek it. I mean, sometimes I'll just blurt out "Are you bored with me?" and then he feels confused or even hurt, not knowing what he's done to make me say that.

So, I'm really trying not to do that, and have a healthy, honest relationship. Sometimes I'll be talking about my fears about the relationship or bad feelings about myself, and he says "why are we talking about this?" I see his point, I could stand to be less pessimistic and not dwell on scary thoughts, but I also explained my side to him: that these things are going through my head and I want to talk about them with someone who'll reassure me, or even just listen and understand. And I think he got it. So there's some successful communication going on.
neurotic.nelly
QUOTE(pepper @ Dec 4 2007, 05:40 AM) *
pst, the inerbriated rambling thread is over here. wink.gif


thank you pepper, i sure was off the wall when i wrote that mess of words.
seriously,
i apologize for drunk posting.
bunniegraves
QUOTE(edie52 @ Dec 6 2007, 06:56 AM) *
I agree with you, likeanyother. And it sounds like you're on the right track. The reassurance thing- I've tried to explain this to my boyfriend, giving the excuse that "I'm a woman, and we're more likely to be like this or need that," and he always gives me shit for generalizing. Sometimes I think he's more of a feminist than I am! I realize that men get insecure as well, but they don't do the fishing-for-reassurance thing that many women do. I think it's partially that we're socialized to need it more, even seek it. I mean, sometimes I'll just blurt out "Are you bored with me?" and then he feels confused or even hurt, not knowing what he's done to make me say that.
So, I'm really trying not to do that, and have a healthy, honest relationship. Sometimes I'll be talking about my fears about the relationship or bad feelings about myself, and he says "why are we talking about this?" I see his point, I could stand to be less pessimistic and not dwell on scary thoughts, but I also explained my side to him: that these things are going through my head and I want to talk about them with someone who'll reassure me, or even just listen and understand. And I think he got it. So there's some successful communication going on.

we must share a brain smile.gif
deepthinker
I feel like I'm such in a tough spot right now. See, I have this girl friend of mine, and we had come close to a serious dating relationship a year or so ago. Then my porn issue came up (which she had knew about before), and that was pretty much the end of it. While it was difficult at first for me to accept, with time I thought I had. Things changed for both of us anyway, I left the Catholic Church (of which we were both members), she got a new boyfriend after a while, and that chapter seemed closed. Now though, she is single again, and we've began to talk more regularly like we did when were looking into the possibility of a dating relationship.

I feel as though we're getting close again, and to be honest some of those feelings I had for her before, are sort of coming back to the surface. I think somewhere I'm beginning to want something beyond a friendship again. The problem is, I know it will never happen, because of our different feelings on religion, which is a big dealbreaker for her.

I don't know what to do, on one hand I want so much to tell her what I'm feeling right now, but on the other I don't want to harm the friendship we do have in the process. What should I do?
dj-bizmonkey
that's a tough one deepthinker. i'm assuming this is the same girl who was going to be a nun that you posted about in the general sex thread? i hate to say it, but it think mum's the word on this one, at least for now. i would work on rebuilding the friendship slowly. at this stage in the game, if you reveal everything that you feel for her, it might scare her off. i would just try and be patient. i know you are dealing with alot of other issues right now, and honestly, maybe having a girlfriend isn't the absolute best thing at the moment. however, having a positive female influence in your life, like your friendship with her, will be healing and enlightening for you. it will be at least good practice for future interactions.

also, are you sure that religion is a total dealbreaker? how far have you strayed away from the catholic church? are you still spiritual? there is no reason that the two of you can't bond over your spirituality, and in the end she may see that just because your beliefs don't conform perfectly to catholic doctrine that the two of you see the world in very similar ways.

good luck!
deepthinker
QUOTE(dj-bizmonkey @ Apr 22 2008, 08:06 PM) *
that's a tough one deepthinker. i'm assuming this is the same girl who was going to be a nun that you posted about in the general sex thread? i hate to say it, but it think mum's the word on this one, at least for now. i would work on rebuilding the friendship slowly. at this stage in the game, if you reveal everything that you feel for her, it might scare her off. i would just try and be patient. i know you are dealing with alot of other issues right now, and honestly, maybe having a girlfriend isn't the absolute best thing at the moment. however, having a positive female influence in your life, like your friendship with her, will be healing and enlightening for you. it will be at least good practice for future interactions.

also, are you sure that religion is a total dealbreaker? how far have you strayed away from the catholic church? are you still spiritual? there is no reason that the two of you can't bond over your spirituality, and in the end she may see that just because your beliefs don't conform perfectly to catholic doctrine that the two of you see the world in very similar ways.

good luck!


Yeah, this is the same girl. I know I do have a lot of other issues going on, that do need addressing. Think I will hold back for now, and just build the friendship, besides I've sort of taken an interest in someone else now, but not sure where that will lead.

As for religion, she has told me that that is a incompatability so, for what that's worth. I'm not in a church presently, haven't been since I left. Very skeptical of man made religion, though I believe in God. Can't say I'm all that close to Him though at the moment.
geekchickknits
QUOTE
Oh I definitely do ;-) the difference is that in this case I don't know if its my 6th sense telling me that or my paranoia going to the extreme. Just to give you an example of how paranoid I am, if I see that he's online on myspace for example, immediately after I see him online I start making up all this drama in my head, like "oohh hes online looking at girls' profiles and I bet he's messaging them right now while I'm here at work" and I just push myself into being more and more paranoid. It's pretty sad, I wish I wasn't this paranoid


I used to be in an open relationship, and for a long time I was the only one who actually did anything outside the relationship. Part of our deal was that if something happened we would tell the other person before the next time we had sex. When I would talk to other people about it, and say that he hadn't done anything, although I had, a lot of the time the conversation would go something like this:

Others: "But how do you know?"
Me: "Because he would tell me if he had."
O: "Yeah, but how do you know? I mean, how do you know that for sure?"
Me: "Because I trust him. And trust is believing what someone says because they are the person that said it. And if you don't trust your partner, you probably shouldn't be sleeping with them."

I used to think, once a cheater, always a cheater. Then a very good friend of mine who had an unfortunate habit of cheating on EVERY SINGLE BOYFRIEND got together with her current man. They've been together 5 years. She has never cheated on him, and has no desire to, and they've talked about marriage. So Dani, maybe your man is the exception that proves the rule. If you trust him - trust him with your whole heart. If you can't do that, I'd recommend looking at CBT (Cognative Behavioral Therapy) as a tool to help you change your paranoid thoughts into more realistic ones and see if that helps.
deepthinker
Well I did decide to talk with her about what I was thinking tonight, and she actually was quite understanding about the whole thing, and we discussed the matter for a little while. Bottom line is, her faith is one of those absolutes as far as looking for a relationship goes. It's something a potential mate has to have, and I don't obviously now. So there's not much that can be done, the situation is what it is. Barring any big change in either one of us, it's always just going to be a friendship for us, and really in the end maybe that's not so bad.
bubblesqueak
Hello - I'm new here so I'm not sure if this is the right place to put this but I really need to get this out. My boyfriend and I just had the worst fight we've ever had. I've been really blue lately and I know i've been difficult to live with. I'm under a lot of pressure at work and I'm really stressed about school and things just arent going so well, so I'm a bit of a nutcase. I've been crying a LOT. I've talked to him about this (well tried to) and explained that I really just dont feel like myself right now but I am trying to get myself together.

He's under a lot of pressure too - he is finishing his degree this year and is applying for grad positions and going to assessment centres/interviews etc, and he also has a fulltime job.

Today we had a small argument (about a parking space of all things) and it turned into him yelling at me about how he doesnt feel like he has had his girlfirend in months, that I am like a different person, that i just cry all the time and I'm difficult to handle and always getting him in trouble. It got worse though, he then began to say stuff like I cant cope with stress and what the hell am i going to be like when i get a real job (I am finishing my degree too this year) and that he feels like I dont do anything about my problems, I just let them get on top of me and then cry about it.

I know I've been difficult lately and that it must be hard for him but honestly I felt like some of the rant was really unfair. I told him I would move out for a little while, until this crazy period has settled down a bit maybe and then we can decide what to do and that just made him madder. He eventually apologised and said that he was sorry he was mean and that he is just so frustrated that i have been upset over this stuff for so long and that he doesnt know how to help me - but i cant get his words out of my head.

How am i supposed to confide in him now? I know he is frustrated and it just makes me feel like I will have to hide how I am feeling from him, and that isnt going to work out for either of us. I just feel really sad, like I think he broke something.


themeiu
welcome bubblesqueak
I know it's tough when you have your own stuff going on but your partner get involved no matter what. Last summer I was going through something really similar. I was tired and stressed and really depressed. My partner would come home from work and I would just be this empty shell, not talking and just really sad.

Have you thought about going to therapy? It really really helped me. It was a great neutral place to get all of my
stuff out so that I had a lot of it worked out before I talked to my partner. The thing I found about therapy is though that you really have to want to work on your stuff, nobody can make you. I made the decision to go and used my time wisely. If you don't have insurance or your insurance doesn't cover it I know many colleges that have Clinical programs offer counseling for the community either free or on a sliding scale (I think I paid $30 a session).

Also, have you considered medication? I've been there so I know - crying everyday is not how life should be. When I started on Wellbutrin my life changed. I didn't feel artificially happy, and I still had some bad days, but it really just smoothed life out and helped me take the bumps and turns better.

nother idea would be to attend counseling together as couple. This might help him see where you're coming from, that it's not about him, and what he could do to help you. Having a third party there helps to show that what you are feeling is ok and normal and that his reactions and feelings are also normal and ok.

Check out the sigh....depression thread in the our bodies section. It's a great resource and a great place to go for support. I'll go bump it for ya.

I know it seems really hard right now, but trust me, you will get through this smile.gif
auralpoison
Oooops! Wrong place!
bubblesqueak
Thanks themeiu, it’s really nice of you to say all that. We talked about it again last night and he apologised again and said he was so sorry he was so mean to me. He said he was really stressed and frustrated and worried and he took it out on me. It was good to talk about it. I think you may be right about seeing someone – I booked an appointment and I already feel a tiny bit more in control. I will go check out this other thread. Thankyou for being so kind

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