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Persiflager
Hi lopie! I don't think there's nothing wrong with enjoying a nice little crush as long as you behave yourself - if you're happy with your boyfriend, there's no need to do anything about it. Are these crushes fun, or are they really bothering you?
ketto
lopie, I agree with persiflager. As long as they're just crushes then it's no big deal. Now if you're thinking about leaving your boyfriend for these other guys that's another story. If that's the case it's probably time to sit down and figure out what you want right now.
lopie313
Well i don't want to leave my boyfriend but i have had little thoughts about having some fun with the other guys like go out on a date or flirt. Those are the only things that have crossed my mind really. My boyfriend and i are open with our girl crushes (I'm bi ) but i can't bring myself to tell him about my boy crushes. I feel he would just get jealous or paranoid like I'm ganna leave him.
ketto
I don't think you need to tell him if you don't want to. There's nothing wrong with crushes or fantasizing and if you don't have any worries about acting them out then I think it's perfectly healthy and normal. The worry comes when you start to feel like you want to stray from your boy.
girltrouble
i'm watching a dating/advise show called 'wingman' on fhn....it's pretty good, anyone else seen it?

i guess he's got a podcast too:wingman seems interesting. the ep had a great pick up line this girl came up with. she goes over to a guy, intros herself and asks to borrow him, takes him over to her friends and says to them, 'if you guys wanna set me up, pick someone like [his name], then she started complementing him... it was pretty good.
candycane_girl
Hello all. I have a question but it's actually on behalf of my brother. As I mentioned earlier, he sees his girlfriend pretty much every single day. The problem is, he's getting really resentful but he feels like he's obligated to see her. He complains about the fact that he'll be tired and still be expected to go to her place. He said that it's also messing up the relationship because it's just the same conversation day after day. He actually said, "How do I tell her I want to see her less often so that when we actually do spend time together I look forward to it?" I have no idea if there is a nice way to say that. According to him, she's been really hurt by guys in the past and so he doesn't want to hurt her feelings.

The other problem is that they are pretty serious but she is Jewish and really religious. She always says that she wants to get married in the synagogue but to do that my brother would have to convert and he doesn't believe in organized religion at all. Is there any point in keeping the relationship going or should he just end it now?
Persiflager
Ooh yeah, I wouldn't say that!

Is there any way he can encourage her to do some stuff by herself, e.g. seeing friends, hobbies etc? Sounds like she doesn't have a lot else going on. Otherwise I'd go with 'I'm going home tonight because I'm really tired, and I'd much rather spend time with you when I can be fun rather than grumpy and tired. Looking forward to seeing you tomorrow!'.

How would she react if he said he wanted to go to the gym or hang out with guy friends?

Not sure about the religion issue - how long have they been together? I don't think he should dump her outright, but he might need to have a serious conversation with her where he makes his feelings clear.
roseviolet
CC Girl, I think there are a few deal-breaker issues where the two people in a relationship must come to some sort of common ground.
1. marriage
2. kids
3. religion
When it comes to religion, you have to at least agree to disagree.
I think he needs to find out exactly why a Jewish ceremony is so important to her. Is it because she likes some of the traditions - the breaking of the glass, for instance? Or is it because she has a strong belief in the scripture & the traditional vows & she wants to marry someone who holds the same spiritual beliefs?

Of course, if he's too wimpy to tell her that he's too tired to come over, then I don't see how he's capable of bringing up a subject like this. Seriously, if he's too tired, then he just needs to tell her he's too tired. Plain and simple. If he isn't comfortable enough with her to say something as simple as this, then he's got far more problems than just religious differences.

candycane_girl
According to him, she doesn't really have any friends. Like, none. She just works all day and then goes home. When it comes to hanging out all the time, one of the things that happened is that early on in their relationship she went on a two week trip to Israel which was kind of scary considering the situation over there. So then when she came back he wanted to be with her all the time. But that was a year and a half ago. Now he's getting kind of worn down. He's gone from being in one band to two and she got annoyed because that would take even more time away from the two of them. I know it's not always easy to make friends but I think she should go out and get involved in something to try to meet new people.

rose, it seems that she is very devoted to her religion. However, I don't know why she bothered dating my brother if she knew his views or if she figured that maybe he would change his mind. But I honestly can't see him joining any religion for anyone.
ketto
A year and a half and he still can't say to her he needs more alone time? I dunno, it seems like at this point that conversation shouldn't be too difficult (and I've had it a few times myself). It sounds like they really need to have a discussion about where they're going, religion, and the time they spend together. Whether or not they want to end things, they're going to have to decide together.
lopie313
Hey CC Girl, How old is your brother? Are they in high school or college? I have been in your brothers situation with my boyfriend. he was way to used to seeing me all the time and we talked about it and he told me the reason he wanted to spend so much time with me was because he didn't wan to loose me to anyone. Do you think your brother gf feels this way?
I told my boyfriend that he did not have to worry about it because he was the only one for me. Then we had a long talk about how we spend our time together ( believe it or not what you do together has a lot of effect on your relationship) we decided that we should have time for ourselves that way we don't feel like we are getting to much of each other or getting nothing done.

First i think he should talk to her about how much time they spend together and see how she feels about his feelings. Also your bother should suggest activities that they can do together or on their own on a regular basis. He should try that for a while to see if things change or stay the same.

As for the religious thing i agree that they should be able to agree to disagree. But if it becomes a problem they need to address it sooner rather than later and the stronger argument will win and it may help their relationship or end it. I'm sorry to say but some people can be very protective when it comes to their religion.
candycane_girl
Sadly, my brother is 29. I say sadly because I think that he should be acting more mature at his age. What he keeps saying over and over is that he doesn't want to hurt her feelings and that she is uber-sensitive. But I think he should be able to at least talk to her without worrying that he's going to make some kind of major faux-pas. It basically seems that all she does is work. I can understand that because I know what it's like to work long hours and just want to come home and rest. He goes to school, has a job and has lots of friends and plays in two bands. I think the worst part about this is that I'm not even sure if he'll take my advice because I'm the little sister with no experience in long term relationships. But I can see that it's bothering him and that in turn bothers me.

As for the religion thing, it would only be an issue if they chose to get married. It's going to be at least another year before he gets out on his own and starts building a life for himself. But at the same time, what's the point of continuing the relationship if he's not willing to convert and she'll only get married in the temple?
rubberdollz
CC girl, I think the main question that your brother needs to ask himself... does he see a future with her at all? I mean if he thinks that at this point in time in his life he'd rather be hanging with his band and doing some other things then he needs to go do that for himself and if they are meant to be together then things will work out over time. Don't waste her time or your own (his).

I'd be a little worried that she's co-dependent. If she's really relying on your brother for any kind of social life than that's a rough place to be in, what IF one day they got married... that may be all she has, him. It is nice to have friends and some kind of life outside of marriage. I love spending time with my husband but my lord everyone needs time away from one another.
lopie313
i totally agree with rubberdoll.

If he sees a future with her then he needs to talk to her. If not then he needs to figure out if she is worth all the trouble right now. Basically he need to rethink his priorities in his life. And if they are truly in love with each other then there should be no problem talking to each other. But it seems to me that there are way to many problems then the relationship needs.

If i were you i would tell him that he needs to rethink everything and if he truly thinks that she is all he wants in life then he needs to figure out weather he should marry her or not. if he thinks that she won't change, then he needs to get out of the relationship or else he is going to regret it one day when he is married and has kids and can't help him self out.

good luck!
roseviolet
He's 29? Oh my. Sounds like he's got a lot on his plate, too. I can't imagine being in 2 bands at once! I'm surprised he's managed to see his girlfriend every single day. Does she ever hang out with him with his friends? Are there any other females amongst his group of friends whom she likes? Just wondering if there's an opportunity for growing friendships out there for her.

I'm sure it's tough to advise an older sibling, but there are some relationship basics that I think he can take seriously - even from his baby sister. Just remind him of the most important element of any successful relationship:
open
honest
communication.
Right now he's not being open or honest & he certainly isn't communicating with her, so no wonder he's feeling frustrated. Luckily he can fix this.

I'm suddenly reminded of one of my guy friends who is very fond of The Bookend Approach. If he has to tell his girlfriend something he's afraid she won't like, he'll make a point of saying something loving or positive before & after dropping the news. For instance, "Honey, I'd love to see you, but I had a long day and I'm really really exhausted and I think I just need to get home and get some sleep. Let's get together tomorrow night instead. We can even go to that Ethiopian place you like."
I mentioned the restaurant for a reason. Since they've been living with this pattern of seeing one another every single day for so long, I think he may need to kinda reward her the first time she has to survive a day without him. It'll give her something to look forward to & reassure her that he really cares for her. She may pout a bit at first, but if she's worth keeping, she'll get over it.
miss_refractory
Hi everyone. I'm new here.

girltrouble
um...

polyamory isn't about leading people on. it's not about using someone's feelings and friendship for sex and childcare. polyamory isn't about being in a relationship and pretending you're not. those things are called douchebaggery.

but that's what your best "friend" is doing. poly is a way of being honest with the people you love and care about, not playing games. people who are serious about poly are serious about their ethics[i think you both need to read the ethical slut--the polyamorist's bible]. take it from someone who has been in 2 poly relationships; poly isn't the easy way out. it's the hard way because it requires that you be thoughtful and conscious of your partner's feelings and to treat them accordingly, even if it results in you not 'getting laid.' having a sense of integrity is required. what he's doing is seriously fucked up. he's just using that word to get in your pants and play with your heart. if he really doesn't want to be in a relationship with you he would act accordingly. instead he treats you like a gf but without giving you the respect of acknowledging it.

he's not going "to verbally agree to" anything, because he's selfish and you've cultivated his selfishess by being everything he could want. even down to having sex with him while he calls you his friend. i know it sounds like the old 'cow/milk for free' theory, but this is about you being a mom. you say his ex never stepped up to being a mom, it doesn't sound like he's had to step up and be the dad. out of the kindness of your heart you stepped in, and he's taken you for granted, and now you're stuck.

i think he needs to see what it's like without you, so he can think clearly. no sex, no child care, no baby sitting, no child discipline. if he wants to be just friends, i think you need to respect him--and more importantly yourself. draw that line and stick to it.
roseviolet
((((((((((Miss Refractory)))))))))))))))
I'm sorry you're hurting. I hope the wonderfully smart Busties can help.

Right now I'm going to ignore the guy for a while & just focus on you. I gather from your post that you prefer exclusive, committed relationships. You are not interested in polyamory and you do not wish to be in an open relationship. Is that right?

What is your ultimate goal relationship-wise? What things do you need from a partner (as apposed to things you can do with friends or on your own). For instance, do you need to be with someone who will tell you a couple times a week that he loves you or are you happy hearing that less often? Do you need someone who is willing to talk to you about their deeper, emotional demons or would you rather they tackle that on their own or with a professional? Also, what for you is the difference between a best friend and a committed partner? I'm not just talking about sex; there are other differences.

I think you need to really focus on exactly what you really want and need from a partner - from the day-to-day stuff to the bigger, deeper issues. Then look at your best friend & see if he can meet those needs.



What do your friends think of this situation? Do they know that you're unsatisfied with the situation? Have they offered any advice? It sounds like you've grown very close to his family. What do they call you? Do you know how they feel about your best friend status? Do they ever address this at all, even in a joking manner?


It sounds like in some ways, you may have a lot of what you want. Some people might say that you're just wanting to slap a label on something & that maybe you should get over that. You've got 90% of him. What more could you want, right? But it looks different from my perspective. Yeah, maybe you have 90% of what you want, but that's because he's still got his foot out the door. You may have a lot of nice things, but you don't have the things that matter the most to you: commitment, respect, love.

At least, that's my guess. Correct me if I'm wrong.
miss_refractory
-Girl trouble-

Given everything that I have said about him, yes, he does sound like a douche.
roseviolet
Well, Miss R, it sounds like he's been pretty honest with you about what he wants. He likes the casual nature of your relationship. He does not want to make any sort of commitment to you. He does not see you as an integral part of his future. Sounds like if he were to move away, he wouldn't even ask you to go along. He likes having you there now, obviously, but he doesn't see you as a permanent feature in his or his son's life.

His behavior is not mainstream or common, so maybe that's why you're confused. Maybe you just don't want to believe him when he tells you that he just wants to remain friends. Friends with benefits, sure, but still just friends. That isn't enough for you. But for some reason you're not taking him at his word. Perhaps you want to try to change him - change him into a person who will love you the way you want to be loved. Honey, that is a dangerous, painful road & it always leads to misery & unhappiness. It doesn't work. Really. A ton of us have learned this the hard way. You can learn this the hard way, too, if you want. It's up to you.

Understand that this man feels no need to change. He sees no need to alter things as they are now. He's getting everything he wants. If it ain't broke, don't fix it, ya know? Sounds like the only person who is unsatisfied is you. That means the change needs to come from you first and foremost.


Here's what I think you should do: Move out. It will be hard. It will be painful. You will miss him. He will miss you. But you have a bigger, better goal to strive for - a healthy relationship with a person who is not ashamed to show the world that he loves you & is willing to commit himself to you.

I know it'll be hard & painful. You may not be ready to do it this week or even this month, but it needs to happen. Hopefully it'll happen soon. At the very least you should set up a few basic boundaries. If he's just going to be your friend, that means he needs to treat you like a friend. Do you cuddle up with your other friends? Kiss them? Have sex with them? If you don't do these things with other friends, then you shouldn't do these things with him. If you two are just friends, then you need to start acting like it.

No matter what you decide, there is one VERY important thing that you NEED to do: that little boy needs to STOP calling you "Mom" immediately. Allowing that to continue will only confuse the boy & hurt him in the long run. Teach him to start calling you by your first name. I'm very very VERY serious about this. It's a shame that this poor little boy has been sucked into this situation as it is.
girltrouble
lol...well i'm happy to hear he isn't as bad as i thought he was, but the question remains, where do you fit in his life, and why does he have a complete inability to call your friendship what it is-- a relationship?

while i you may have given me the douche cliff notes version, but he still has that issue. and while i commend him in being honest and communicating at the start of things, sounds to me like that has fallen by the way side. and poly isn't just about being honest when/if you have a sexual encounter-- without a proper framework and a solid foundation, that is just hurtful and manipulative. poly is about constant communication, learning each others "landmines," and building/fortifying a stong foundation and COMMITMENT to your partners. he's doing things EXACTLY WRONG. in order for poly to work, that love, that commitment is not optional, IT IS CRUCIAL. because without it, someone is going to get hurt. that someone, more than likely is you. you said in your OP that he "has admitted it was a lifestyle which left him unhappy." i'm willing to bet it was because his partners were unethical, and he got hurt. i understand being gun shy, but it's no excuse for setting someone up for heartbreak. either he's having a hard time being honest with you, or he's having a hard time being honest with himself.

QUOTE
It's not in me to have a poly relationship. It's not something that I, myself could handle. I want him to have enough trust in me that I won't hurt either of them, or let them down.

if this is true, you are going to get hurt with him. it's no more fair for you to ask him to be monogamous than it is for him to ask you to be poly. and while you may see him as being honorable, i see something terribly dishonest about starting anything with you (by any name, or lack there of), knowing you want monogamy.

you may view him/what he's doing differently, and you know him better than i, heh. but in the equation you're in, he's in the catbird seat. he's not going to get hurt, he's insulated himself from that. you are obviously committed to him, but he's not committed to you and, from what you say he has little interest in it....and this is, to me, where polyethics comes into it. it is not fair for him to keep sleeping with you knowing you will/are going to get emotionally involved AND hurt when he knows your ideals of love are incompatible. it is simply not enough to say he isn't interested in "just getting his dick wet", but to continue with you. what does he do if he should find someone else, who is poly, and family friendly? as a friend, as his partner, acknowledged or no, your heart should be of the utmost concern. but in continuing things, you get deeper in. it is unethical.

look, he doesn't sleep with random girls. bully for him. i'll say it again: poly isn't about who you don't sleep with, it's about being honorable, ethical, and yes, committed to those you do. it's called polyamory-- many loves. but in the most obvious, pivotal, crutial relationship in his and his son's life he's had for the last year and a half, he is unable to say the word. to call it as it is. that doesn't sound like poly AT ALL. he's not acting in a way that is consistent with it in any way, shape or form. to me it sounds like a trendy jerk who can't/won't commit, using poly as an excuse.

[ETA: in reading your posts again it occured to me there is another option, and i will fully admit to viewing most guys' motives in an unfavorable light. lol...let's just say i was a manwhore in my past, and that colors the way i see things. for me poly was a means of finding some consistency, integrity and ethics with my partners. but this line struck me as odd:
QUOTE
However, he has NOT slept with another girl in the entire year we have been sleeping together. When confronted about this he said it was "out of respect to (me)."
i am not interested so much in the number of girls he's been with other than you, but rather, this is something someone who really doesn't know about polyamory in anything other than a superficial way. i'm not saying he should be sleeping with other women, but that poly is about being respectful, AND loving more than one person. it makes me think he is more concerned with not getting hurt than poly. i'll leave that assessment to you. but if it is, then my suggestion is to talk to him in more detail about polyamory. buy the ethical slut, read it and ask questions. if his knowledge is as shallow as it seems, then it is more about those old wounds. in which case the solution is rather simple: remind him you are not the girl who hurt him. you are not his ex, his child's mother. that you would love to be there for him and his son. but you need to tell him you are not interested in a poly thing. period. then you need to let him think about what he wants, but give yourself a time limit. don't tell him, because that is an ultimatum, and those are manipulative. this is for you to say that you will not wait around for him to make choices for your life. on some level you need to take control for your own life, with or without him. BUT-- if he is knowledgeable about poly, and he is serious about it, then HE IS UNETHICAL, AND YOU SHOULD BEWARE, 'cos the things above are true, there's something rotten in denmark.]



[EETA: i wrote this concurrent w/ rose's post. thank you rose for bing waaaay more tactful and diplomatic than i could ever be. wink.gif thanks for setting such a graceful model. i'm learning]
auralpoison
QUOTE(miss_refractory @ Feb 28 2009, 05:03 PM) *
I've told him I was thinking about leaving. Because it's not fair that I get hurt all the time. But I can't bring myself to do it unless he tells me to simply because I don't ever, ever want to feel like I'm the 2nd person in his son's life to walk away from him. But he strongly doesn't want me to leave. So achieving this from him will be hard. I don't want to be another voice on the phone, gift in the mail, or face in a picture of a moment he can't remember.... like his son's real mother is.


It seems to me that you're taking on an awful lot of responsibilty in this NON relationship & that you are giving him majority power in it. He's told you upfront that he isn't into monogamy, but you say that you are & that you cannot handle a poly 'ship. It doesn't matter whether or not he's been with anybody else since you SORT OF got together. Because it is still merely SORT OF/tentative/tenuous even after a YEAR in his mind if he doesn't want define it as more.

You want two different things. The twain shall likely not meet. He's being selfish & thoughtless in regards to his child & to you. While I'm sure the emotional connection is more, you are still free childcare & an insta-mommy no matter what assistance he's offered you. He either needs to commit to monogamy & you or you need to move on if you can't accept it. Waiting around for him to change will only make things worse since he's not likely to & neither are you.

That being said, whatever responsibility you feel towards the kid is understandable, although somewhat misguided. You aren't his mother, period. No matter how much mommying that you've done. And it's confusing for him to have daddy's "best friend that lives with us & sleeps with daddy" as an *ambiguous* partner. Mommy, but not mommy. Not step-mommy, not Auntie, not Miss_R. It fucks with a kid's head.

I know how it feels to have a child latch onto you like that (I've been there. The kid's mom was Satan. I had to nip the "mommy" stuff in the bud for the child's sake.), but it isn't healthy for the boy. Or for you. I agree with RV, this kid needs to be COMPLETELY discouraged from seeing you as "mommy" since this relationship clearly isn't going to work.

If this guy is as good of a friend as you say he is, he should be cool with you moving out on your own & still having you be a positive part of his/his kid's life. Auntie Miss_R should have frequent playdates & fun with the youngster so he doesn't feel abandoned. The kid is five, at that age they are still pretty resilient, as long as Auntie isn't totally stripped away he should be cool.
sybarite
Miss refractory, you've gotten sound advice here so I have little to add. I only want to reiterate the importance of not conflating your love for and relationship with his son with your relationship with him. I had a live-in stepmon growing up and I find myself as a live-in stepmon to my mister's child, so this is a situation I'm utterly familiar with.

Your relationship with his son needs to be clear and consistent, so as not to confuse the child. He may well need you and love you and I am sure it would be hard to walk away from that daily contact. But understand you are picking up the pieces, providing care and love where his own two parents have not fully done so. The child's father's efforts to provide for his child don't impress me particularly; that's simply his job as a parent. Being a good provider cannot replace being there for your kid.

Once you decide what to do--and I agree with the others that moving out may ultimately make you happiest, as you are not getting what you need from this man--then be clear with the boy what your relationship with him is to be into the future. I agree with AP; there are ways to remain in his life without living with him and being the primary caretaker. Kids are flexible as long as they know the ground they're standing on is solid. Right now, you're taking the role of a parent without his father committing to you as such.

(((miss refractory))) I know all of our comments may not be what you want to hear, but they come from experience. Let us know how you get on.
auralpoison
Syb, was "stepmon" a typo, or were you meaning stepmonster?
sybarite
Ha, a typo... or a freudian slip! I'm a decent stepmom I think but I'm sure a stepmonster lurks within me...

ETA: Oh, I see I did it twice blink.gif
miss_refractory
Thanks for your advice and opinions.

roseviolet
Miss R, sorry it didn't turn out the way you wanted, but you should be proud of yourself for getting this out in the open & tackling such difficult questions. Do you know when you'll be moving out? Where are you going to live?
StarLightBright
i think you should just move on from him because you are always going to be stuck in this situation...u have to move on
BustiRubi
so is "poly" becoming trendy in a superficial way these days? Is it popular for all those guys who are afraid of commitment?

I should admit that I'm a tad bit afraid but not entirely because I think it is a possibility for the future just not NOW. I'm a little bothered by my boyfriend saying he never wants to get married. Although we do talk about our future together and being in our forties (which sounds like an appropriate age to marry to me) and he has mentioned it as a possibility at that age-I think we agree on that.

Does it seem likely that a couple be together for almost 20 years then marrying? Am I thinking too far ahead? I'm actually comfortable thinking I'll probably never get married because I don't like filling my head with fairy tale ideas even though I tend to any way...

humanist77
I know this is a really long post, but it reads quickly, and I really really appreciate anyone who reads it and gives me some wise words smile.gif thank you!!

so, with stargazer's suggestion (I think she's my new mentor smile.gif) I'm bringing this over here from the portions thread (where there are plenty of other juicy details).

Here's my story in short. I ended a 5 year, live-in relationship in January for multiple reasons (amicable, for the most part), without looking back. Leaving and being on my own was one of the best things I've ever done for myself. I'm not bitter with my ex or anything-it was the best for both of us.

The past month I've started dating again. Joined a great personals site and I'm meeting many new people. It's been a positive experience over all, and I'm learning TONS from it. Mostly that I'm set on remaining single for a good long while and exploring new people, with no intention of getting into something monogamous anytime soon. And I'm not just looking for sex-I'm looking for new connections and experiences, and we'll see where they go. Doing this is important to me because I felt like I became so disconnected with myself in my last relationship, and this is helping a lot in getting to know myself again. It's an important part of the healing process.

Now for the real issue. Last week I went out with someone new (nice guy, but no sparks) and fatefully met someone else that night who I had immediate and overwhelming chemistry with. He (let's call him John) slipped me his number, and in just a few days, we've become so completely enamored and smitten with each other. The more we get to know each other, the more we're falling hard. I have not felt this profound of a spiritual connection with another person before, ever. And I've had a lot of deep connections with people over the years. This is a level I've never known. It feels so right and natural in every way. I take this as nothing but a cosmic curve ball that is just making my life more complicated. That's not to say our relationship is complicated-it's really quite simple and beautiful. But what I decide to do with it is a little harder.

It may sound like I'm on the love drug right now, but I think I'm actually seeing this pretty levelheadedly, because I've approached all this dating objectively and not looking for love. Just looking for fun and new experiences. But I wasn't expecting this. I guess you never expect it when it happens. The crazy thing is that we weren't seeking each other out-I met him during a date with another guy!

John and I have been very clear with each other about where we are relationship-wise. He absolutely knows and understands what I'm going through. We are that comfortable with each other that I've been able to speak my mind so concisely and effectively; there are no misunderstandings.

It's been about a year since his last committed relationship. He's definitely more open to having that with me than I am with anyone right now. He's assured me that it's okay with him that I keep exploring this (although if I get too crazy sleeping with other people, he'll have to give that up for safety reasons [a man with principle!]).

I am so torn right now. On one hand I'm so blissfully enjoying what we have together, and on the other hand I'm worried about hurting him because I know I'm not ready to stop seeing other people and commit. I've really, really loved meeting all these new people lately. It's liberating and cathartic and I'm learning a lot about myself. I think it's very healthy and fun for me. Another thing is that I'm interested in exploring women-something I haven't really been able to do, but now I can. I feel I will regret it if I don't try.

I really, really don't want to fuck such a wonderful thing up. Every second we've spent together has been absolute peace and harmony and excitement (our physical connection has been just as awesome as our non-physical connection). I fear though that I would be doing a huge disservice to myself if I stopped exploring different people. I mean, FIVE years with one person is a while. I know it takes much longer to really get to know a person, but I think the person I was with before was wrong for me. I hope my ex doesn't lurk around here (I know he has before) because I don't want to hurt him either, but I NEVER, EVER felt this kind of spiritual connection with him, or even this head over heels for him. Just being honest.

If I were ready for and actually believed in such a thing, I would easily say we're soulmates. And I am not the sappy, sentimental type. I take even emotional issues very practically and cerebrally, weighing pros and cons, looking at it almost systematically (I'm a Virgo, what do you expect tongue.gif) And although I like the idea of soulmates, I don't believe in them so much. I think there are many people in the world one can have that sort of connection with, and we're just limiting ourselves by searching desperately for that 'one true love'. But this has been enough to reconsider. Our experience together just in the past week has been like one huge, beautiful Alex Grey painting. This spirituality is something I craved and needed so badly in my last relationship, and it just never happened. I felt like a part of me was missing with him. In fact, when I broke up with him, among many other things said, one of the first I mentioned was that we simply don't have a spiritual connection. He agreed.

John and I have incredibly deep and mutual respect for each other. We obviously work awesomely as friends, as lovers, as a couple. But I need to keep seeing other people for the time being. I am actually fairly certain that he cares about me so much that he would wait until I get it out of my system, but I'm worried about hurting him.

I can't believe this curve ball. In some ways, I think it was perfect timing, because I'm in a state of such openness right now, but then again I wish I met him when I was more obliged to monogamy.

Has anyone out there gone through something like this? Even if not, I think it's something most people can understand in some way (anyone who's ever been in love, anyway). Again, I really so appreciate anyone who reads this and responds. I am open to suggestions of any sort. Thank you!!

ETA: omg, I gave him a CD of one my favorite artists. He just sent me a text message with my favorite line from one of my favorite songs: "I crossed a bridge on my way home, and threw my soul into the depths for you".
Ahh, I think I'm in love.
futura
Phew Humanist! That is some story!

I'm in the same place as you are right now. So i would definitely go for single time. But my ex (with whom i broke up almost a year ago, also amicably, no hard feelings now) got together with this girl he was good friends with when we still had a relationship. Last time he visited me we talked about that. And he said 'i know it's not the smartest thing to do but it happened.' I know his heart is in the right place regarding his current relationship.

QUOTE
I am so torn right now. On one hand I'm so blissfully enjoying what we have together, and on the other hand I'm worried about hurting him because I know I'm not ready to stop seeing other people and commit. I've really, really loved meeting all these new people lately. It's liberating and cathartic and I'm learning a lot about myself. I think it's very healthy and fun for me. Another thing is that I'm interested in exploring women-something I haven't really been able to do, but now I can. I feel I will regret it if I don't try.


You already answered your own question, be it confusing as hell; you'd like to try two things that don't go together. How long has it been since you broke up with your ex? If pursuing this, be sure to take things very very slowly. Take some time to digest this, see how you feel about the idea of this one person in your life.

I wish you lots of strength and clearheadedness (and fun!). 'Cause this ain't easy.
humanist77
futura, thank you for reading and responding! It's a mouth full!

I do feel like I'm answering my own questions-I know very clearly the situation and how I'm feeling about each part of it. But I want these things so equally-and you're right, they just can't go together.

I know a major key is being 100% honest and open with him, and of course taking things very slowly. I already feel like we've taken things to such a heightened level already, though-we just have that kind of connection. But as far as proceeding into a relationship, definitely slowly.

How are you fairing with your situation? Are you also debating whether to get involved with someone new, or just playing enjoying singlehood?

Thanks again!!
zoya
...of course, then there is me, who's a gemini, and I'm like "go for it." (well, albiet cautiously and at a pace) The best thing I ever had in my life was with a guy that I got together with as a long term relationship (3.5 years) was ending. I was 24 at the time, so between my age, the wanting to get my shit together after the breakup, and the feeling of "holy shit, this is really SOMETHING" I let it slip away. Granted, I was a trainwreck at the time, I didn't really have the ability to keep it together - but that said, I did KNOW that it was something amazing, and I chose to go against my gut. I look back on that time and I don't regret anything I did, it was a part of learning and growing - but I wish I'd been in a place where I was able to trust that my gut is always right, and just go for it. I don't pine for him or anything, but I will say that he was the only person I've ever truly been in love with, on all levels. And it was like BAM. So easy, so - there.

Don't overthink it and debate it internally so much that you push it away... try to balance your head and your heart. listen to your gut. It's never, never wrong. If you feel so right about this guy, maybe you can take it slow.

I dunno.. maybe I sound like a hopeless romantic, but fuck. if it's right it's right. why overthink it? just take steps to not go into it 100% non-stop.
girltrouble
ok, that sounds an awful lot like kitty and i.

(i know y'all are sick of me talking about her)
i had finally come to the conclusion that i was going to transition. a very difficult thing. i decided that i should find things for myself to do, and i went to a place a few blocks from where i lived. from the second i saw her, i was crushed out. it was love at first sight-- so much so that i made sure to ask her name, and wrote it down so i wouldn't forget it by the time i got home. later i found out she felt the same.

soon we were dating, and she was unlike anyone i had dated before, but i made that decision. i didn't know how she would take it, and i really wasn't looking for something serious. i had to see this thing thru. we talked about where she was, and what she was up for, and she was moving in a year, so she wasn't looking for anything serious either. so we decided that we would just play it by ear-- to see where this thing took us. she was free to see others, as was i, and we would keep it casual. she decided that she wanted something more serious 2 years into it, i had told her i was trans and was very cool about it. we were a team by then, but i didn't want her to feel like she was obligated to be with me, so we kept the relationship open. and it worked for us.

the trick, the key is not just being clear at the outset, but making communication a habit. to learn to keep talking, checking in with each other, and making sure that if you aren't on the same page, you know what page your partner is on, and it's not too far away.

you might want to read 'the ethical slut.' i recommend it a lot, it's a good foundation for learning to talk to your partner honestly open/poly relationship or not. just remember all relationships are negotiation, and if you talk about things, there are less problems because everyone knows where they stand.

good luck! hope that helps!
angie_21
Hi Humanist, your story is just awesome and I feel like I have to write because (as I said in the "portions" thread) I went through a similar thing when I met my current bf. Maybe it was because I didn't have any time between relationships, and didn't have a taste of "freedom" (lol), but I didn't even think twice. I followed the emotions and maybe we were lucky, but it worked out. We met at work, and I actually left my boyfriend at the time to be with him (I did think twice about that part of it. It was weird.) Everything clicked, there were tons of little signs, the attraction was crazy. My previous boyfriend was a creep, passive-agressive and emotionally abusive, and there were definitely good reasons for me to think I would need time to myself after being with him. But to me, there was no choice. It worked out that my guy is so amazingly supportive, intelligent, and loving, that I am completely my own person, I was able to do all my soul searching freely while in our relationship, and for the most part I don't feel that I make life decisions (except some financial ones that we compromise equally on) based on my relationship with him. I still plan to go back to grad school, even if it means moving away for a while.

I know when it happened to me, I trusted my feelings. Mostly because I don't usually have strong feelings, I had never felt that way before in my life, and I knew he was the real thing. I didn't even care if I got hurt, because I had never cared enough about a guy to be hurt by one before and it would be worth it just to be with someone I loved that much.

I think since you do feel like you need the time to be yourself, I know what my approach would be - I would jump in feet first, and stay open 100% to the emotional connection you have, but don't label it a commitment yet. Give is a few months, see where it goes, whether it fizzles or continues to blaze. And if he is OK with you still going out with other guys, all the better! You will have a lot of guys to compare him with and see if he continues to measure up. The thing is, if it does become a committed relationship in the future, there is absolutely no reason you should feel limited in your ability to explore new friendships, hobbies, and directions in life while in a relationship. A good relationship supports these things and helps you learn about yourself, it shouldn't suffocate you!

Sorry if my answer is too long or overbearing - I'm just so excited for you!

Mermeg
Hi Humanist. I've never been in your current situation so my advice might not be too credible, but I just wanted to offer my 2 cents. It sounds like you are really committed to yourself right now, which is awesome. Like you said, the whole meeting new people and exploring yourself is surely helping you to heal and kind of reclaim who you are after being in such a long relationship. I don't think you should give that up.

At the same time, I am in awe of what you have found, and part of what makes it so great is that he's not pushing you to make a decision right now. So enjoy him, and don't hold back from spending time with him. Chances are that if it's really right you'll tire of seeing other people, especially if the connections w/ them don't measure up to what you have with him. But you're just not there yet. So keep meeting new people, including girls if possible, especially if you think you'll regret it later if you don't.

And if I can be straight with you...ITA that you've gone into this very pragmatically and that the connection you feel with him shouldn't be just chalked up to that blissful new phase. However, love drug or not, the whole thing really is still very new. As you let the relationship develop and get to know each other better you might gain a better understanding of how comfortable you'd be potentially committing to only him.

Finally...I'm sure this was unintentional on your part, but your post completely inspired me. As someone who also just got out of an incredibly long (and in my case definitely all consuming) relationship, you've given me hope that things really might work out better in the end, so thanks smile.gif
stargazer
QUOTE(girltrouble @ Apr 8 2009, 07:03 PM) *
the trick, the key is not just being clear at the outset, but making communication a habit. to learn to keep talking, checking in with each other, and making sure that if you aren't on the same page, you know what page your partner is on, and it's not too far away.


such a great point, GT! humanist, i've known LTR couples who, in the beginning, were dating (not exclusively), but were engaged in their communication about the people they were seeing. it seemed like with time that they realized they wanted an exclusive relationship with their SO and it felt like a natural progression as opposed to forcing oneself into a committed relationship prematurely. it sounded like the guy you are seeing is open to this possibility. i think gt said it correctly in the other thread not to put all your eggs in one basket right now, keep seeing him, and keep your options open, if you are comfortable with that situation. enjoy your time with him. i agree with zoya, don't overanalyze it, just enjoy yourself 'cause you don't know where it will lead.

it seems like spring is bringing lots of possibilities for busties in the lounge. who wants some popcorn?
futura
As a fellow Gemini, i concur with Zoya about the gut thing. Levelheadedness is very good, just as long as you don't rationalize everything and end up feeling you should go with whatever rationalization you got yourself stuck into.

In the end, your gut feeling is pivotal.
humanist77
Ya'll are so awesome-there are so many thoughtful responses-thank you again for reading my post(s)!
I need more time than I have right now to respond to everyone, but I will do it ASAP. Just assuring that I am going to :)
humanist77
I'm back : )

zoya, your story speaks volumes. I do know that if I let this one get away, I would be okay in the long run-but on the other hand, life is too short, and this is so positive. We've brought out the best in each other-I think we both feel as if we can show any part of ourselves to each other, without fear of judgment or teasing. I like your way of saying to go into it, but with control, as well.

GT, I <3 your sentence about making communication a *habit*, and making sure we're both on the same page. Mutual understanding is so important, and taking consideration not to hurt each other. I've always wanted to read The Ethical Slut. In the past couple months, but especially since I started dating again, I've been more drawn to polyamory. I'm simply not interested in marriage or monogamy, but I love having real, emotional relationships with people. I just don't know whether I can be with one person forever. I will def. have to get that book.

Angie, that's so awesome that things have worked well with your bf. It sounded like you also needed to get away from the last guy; you were just craving something healthy.
I really like the idea of 'jumping in feet first'-going for it, but keeping my head above water, to avoid unbalance and blindness. I agree that other people I meet could end up paling in comparison to him.
I've been realistically keeping my eyes open for red flags-things about him that I should question or be worried about, and I haven't found any yet. Besides him being pretty sure he wants kids, and I'm absolutely sure that I don't, there's just..nothing. I know if I decide to pursue something serious with him, the kids issue will be a big one, but I've been trying to let that go for the sake of just enjoying myself. Maybe we'll get to that issue further down the road.
Your post was thoughtful and well taken-not overbearing at all! smile.gif

Mermeg, your advice is entirely credible! I can't deny that I need to keep working on myself. I was sooooo ready for it months before I even broke up with my ex. I needed to find myself again. But so far he's done nothing but inspire me and make me feel passionate again. My ex was supportive of that stuff, but didn't exactly incite passion. We sorta had our own hobbies and interests, but rarely brought them together. "John" is eager to learn everything about my passions and make them his own. Plus we already share so many of them to begin with.
I told him last night about my bi-curiosity, and as expected, he was very open and respectful about it. Didn't even ask if he could watch smile.gif
I hope you've been able to feel some relief after getting out of your LTR, mermeg-it's usually for the best.

stargazer-passing you the popcorn : D thanks!

futura-ahh, my gut feeling. I can usually trust it, but it's pulling equally in opposite directions!

Thank you all again for your responses.
I just had another wonderful night/morning with him. That's the 4th night we've spent together this week-we can't get enough of each other. He came over to my work last night and I gave him a really long massage-his first professional one-and I think I just made him fall more in love with me. Then he took me to dinner, we went back to my place, fucked like rabbits and slept on top of each other. It is so lovely waking up to his gorgeous face and his eyes gazing at me admiringly. We get off on how into each other we are. I wanted to ask him if he thinks it's possible to fall in love with someone in a week. I think he would respond well to it, but I'm afraid that's taking things too quickly. Gotta pace ourselves smile.gif
twelve_percent
I figured out why I've never had a ding dong inside my cooch! I'm in highschool and I'm surrounded by boys. They're all still boys while I'm a woman. They can't handle me! All this time I was wondering why I haven't met anyone.

I also think it's because I scare them. But it has always hurt my self esteem a bit. I thought it was because no one found me attractive. Now I have a much higher sense of self worth. I'm also very happy I'm finding this out now. I think very few girls figure things out at 18.

I wish more girls my age respected themselves.
candycane_girl
Okay, so I am beyond pissed off. A few days ago, I was freaking out because I hadn't heard from my boyfriend in almost 5 days. I even called his grandparents to ask if they had heard from him. Finally he emailed me from the library to tell me that he was okay it's just that his phone/internet service was down. Okay, fine. That night, since I had heard from him, I decided to stop by his place and surprise him. But he wasn't home. I waited for 20 minutes and then left.

So today I get an email from him saying that I was being stalker-ish and that just because I didn't hear from him didn't mean that he fell off the face of the earth. He said that me calling "a million times" and hanging outside his apartment is a bit much.

Okay, I get that maybe hanging outside his apartment was weird but I think I was justified in calling his place and calling his grandparents. I was worried sick. I replied briefly saying that.

I think that what I did may have been a bit extreme but like I said, I was extremely worried about him and didn't know what else to do. I plan on telling him this the next time we see each other which won't even be for a few days because apparently this weekend isn't very good for him. I know that I'm a bit needy (I usually talk to him everyday) but I think that was an asshole thing for him to say (about being stalkerish). Anyway, does anyone have any advice? Because after I say my piece to him then I think I'm just not going to bother emailing him or calling him again. If he wants to see me then he can pick up the damn phone.
crinoline
candycane - How long have you been together? I would certainly expect my boyfriend to notify me in some way if his phone wasn't working. 5 days is a long time to just disappear from someone's life like that. I think you were justified, and he needs to make some effort to communicate if he wants a relationship.

12% - good for you!
flanker_ji
Candy, I hate to say this, because I know you are really into this guy, but it seems that he's very clearly trying to put some distance between himself and you. I would do as you said, about not calling/e-mailing, and take this opportunity to focus on your needs.
kittenb
Hiding in his bushes for 12 hours is stalkerish. Waiting for 20 minutes is just trying to suprise him.

Sorry to say this but I think flanker is right. He is trying to tell you something that he does not have the guts to say out loud. sad.gif
candycane_girl
crinoline, it's been just under 5 months. Actually, Tuesday will make it 5 months.

I hate to say this but I do have this horrible feeling. I don't know, maybe things will turn out. I think he should know that I was really scared for him and had a million thoughts going through my mind.

I guess I just need to tell him to man up or move on. I hate this. I was single for almost 4 fucking years before this. I finally get a boyfriend and this is what I get? I know it sounds silly but everyone says that there are so many guys out there. Well, then how come it took 4 years just to find another one?
chachaheels
Ugh, all of this sounds just like me about 20 years ago, CCGirl. That was my last bad boyfriend. When I found myself in this situation with him, I decided I'd disappear for a few days, myself. No phone calls, no information to anyone about where I'd gone, only my family and my best friends knew. Sure enough he started to phone people looking for me (I found out when I got back) but when I was away I decided I wasn't going to wait for him to decide. He wasn't giving me what I wanted, he was making me unhappy, and frankly, after about the same amount of time as you've spent with this guy, I was really getting bored with his bullshit, and with him having all the power in the relationship. As soon as I returned and I had him on the phone, he started to act as if nothing out of the ordinary had happened--and agreed to make plans for a date with me, not alone, he insisted, but in a convenient place where he'd be surrounded by all his friends. I'm sure he thought that that way we'd not be able to talk.

So I agreed. And when I showed up, I spent exactly 3 minutes with him. I said hello cordially to all his friends, then took him aside and told him we were finished, he was never to call me or speak to me again. Then I left. It's quite amazing, suddenly I had all his attention and quite a few demonstrations that he missed me. But by then it was far too late, I'd made my decision and I was done.

Your boyfriend is making you feel bad for doing things anyone would do if they thought they were having a relationship with someone they assumed to be a lover or boyfriend/girlfriend. It sounds like this boy likes to have the option of seeing you, and he likes to have the option of not seeing you whenever he wants. He knows exactly what you want from him but isn't willing to be honest about the fact that he won't give that to you because then he'd have to make a decision one way or the other. Right now, he's feeling guilty for not calling you (cause he really didn't want to) so he's trying to make you feel like there's something wrong with you for giving a damn about him when he really did fall off the face of the earth and didn't bother to let you know he'd be out of touch (as far as I know, pay phones and land lines are all still available in Canada to anyone with a few coins--he could have called, easily). He's trying to make you feel like you're defective, when you were just being human. He's careful to let you know he doesn't think you're defective enough to break up with, however, so he'll just skirt around the whole thing until he wants to see you again (whenever his convenience dictates).

There really are far better men out there, and anyone who doesn't see how great you are is a fool who's not worth your time.
I think it took you a long time to find someone before this guy because you didn't want to be with someone, truthfully--you were busy becoming who you are, busy achieving, busy moving into a new city, busy with your friends and family, busy in general. You're surrounded by people from all over the place, all kinds of people you can meet and know.
Set your standards far higher than this man, and then stick to them--and you'll draw all kinds of men who will meet them. They really are out there, and you deserve to have a really great relationship with someone who cares about you and wants to be with you. The sooner you're done with this guy, the sooner you'll be able to start something really good with someone who's worthy of you.
kittenb
While there are "...so many guys out there..." there are only a few that are right for you. I speak from experience. I was single for longer than I care to admit before I met my boyfriend. Longer that you were. Sometimes it was great, sometimes it sucked. But it was what it was. He was worth the wait (although I often wish that he had come into my life just a little bit sooner.)
You are worth the wait. And, while I am not saying that he should want to be w/you 24/7, he needs to be nicer and more willing to hear you out on what is making you unhappy right now.
I hope this works out for you in the best way. Good luck!
candycane_girl
I really fucking hate this. I feel like everyone on the face of the planet is telling me to dump him. This man who has been so sweet to me, who has made me a part of his life and who has made me feel so special.

For the first time in my life, I understand why my dad drinks. I went out with the girls and got drunk tonight. I feel like crying so much right now but I can't.
futura
Candycane, talk to him. I know from experience that it might not be solved by talking once. Or that it won't turn into fight. But since you care about him, lay down the facts and tell him you expect some commitment. No anger, just straight talk, get your point across.
My ex and i have talked and fought a lot (granted, he loves a fight now and then. He can be a real shit-stirrer). And it was always about these kind of issues. At the same time we granted eachother huge amounts of freedom (the mutual trust thing is probably why we're great friends now). My first boyfriend did this whole passive aggressive 'i'm not talking to you because you know what you did' routine and it made me feel like shit.

Tell him how his actions affect you and then decide if you want to go on. I'm not telling you you should serve as a doormat. Be careful about how far you reach in his direction. He really should do his part of reaching.

You say you have this horrible feeling. That sounds like your gut is trying to tell you something. Have you had serious (confrontational) talks about these kind of issues yet?

Good luck, and let us know how it goes.
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