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octobersky
Didn't know if anyone had seen this...

http://talkleft.com/new_archives/014759.html
(sorry don't know how to make it purty :-)

If it's possiable I'm even more afraid than I already was. When is this going to end? And why do these people have so much power? It's scary.
sidecar
Oh man, the article they're quoting from the Times Magazine today is hella depressing. All I could think was we gotta take back Congress this year.
lucizoe
*headdesk*

that's all I got

fuckers

is it really so hard for these people to find a different way to bring meaning into their lives besides forcing birth for jaysus?

seriously
faerietails
That Times article that they mention in the article made my skin crawl. So did the mention of "purity balls" where you attend with your father and he gives you a purity ring to give your future husband on your wedding night. That concept is too fucked up for me to wrap my head around. *shudders*
culturehandy
Fuck. Ahh yes, I knew someone, who knoew someone who worked with an abstinence programme in the states, and among this group of pledge takers, there was an outbreak on anal gonorrhea. Hmmm.

That cartoon made me very sad. I can't believe that these people think this. Does no one recall that as soon as you say something is bad, that someone is going to go out and try it.

As for Purity balls, no comment, this who anti-life thing scares me. tremendously. I am close friends with someone, who now is his 30's and is financially sound, told me that he has been in three pregnany situations, when he was younger, two miscarriages and one abortion. He said that even now, he, as well as the partner at the time were prepared to raise a child. what about those young women who don't have anything? What are they supposed to do?

I also work for social assistance, I see first hand what happens when you have young women having many many children. It is sad that these woman do not have as many options as there non-social assitance counterparts. I also see what happens when women with addiction have 7,8 even 12 and 13 children, and every last one of them being taken away then being lost in the foster system. Then the anti-choicers don't give a shit about what happens to these children, they often times slip through the cracks, become used, abused and all those horrible things. Where are the anti-choicers then? Fucking assholes, only care in utero.

I have seen some people in this city with a bumper sticker that says "abortion, the worst form of child abuse" excuse me? I suppose that the children who were locked up in dog kennels and regularly beaten and made to eat their own feces and drink their own urine are in a much better situation. And those children who are adopted by pedophiles and put on line for dispicable and deplorable child pornography purposes, I suppose that they are also much better off. Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight.

*ends rant*
faerietails
Not to go off on too much of a tangent, but I just saw this article in the NYTimes about Romanian orphanages. There's a quick mention in there that everything got started when birth control was banned. That thought just gives me chills.
godslioness
Just poking my head in as a nonYank to say keep up the good work, depressing though the whole dman situation might be. I spotted this in the Onion, and thought it might give you girls a wry chuckle, at least:

http://www.theonion.com/content/node/48199
chani
omg - very icky... until I got to the part about "does not safeguard the laundry of the father" LOL!
amywoman
Maude Bless the Onion.
chani
Canadian women lacking access:
http://www.cbc.ca/story/canada/national/2006/05/24/abortionnewbrunswick20060524. html
Especially on the east coast, things are pretty grim for Canuks too.
treehugger
Here we go again:
http://www.prochoiceohio.org/s11issues/abortion_ban.shtml
nereid
AWESOME!!! MORE MONEY GOING TO PRO-CHOICE ORGANIZATIONS!!!
snafooey
That's insane - so the mother could die giving birth, but who cares? The kid's still alive!

Even in traditional, Orthodox Judaism (and they sure as hell aren't pro-choice) if the mother's life is threatened, abortion is not only permitted, but required.
lucizoe
Louisiana too.
vesicapisces
OK, that's 103 posts by the new tr*ll since in roughly 2 weeks - at $.50 per post that's $51.50 to my local abortion access fund. At this rate I'll be subsidizing an abortion every month! Thanks, efilorp4, for motivating me to give more to my favorite cause!
kittenbonanza
I have a friend whose mother works for a car insurance agency, and it looks like those anti-abortion bumper stickers come with some costs: those people are always reporting claims on their keyed-up or otherwise vandalized cars.
Ah, I don't get people. Even the Bible says something about how life doesn't begin until blood starts to flow, and that's not until a couple weeks into pregnancy. Where'd this "life begins at conceptions" bullshit come from?
katiebelle2882
so somehow it makes sense for a woman (who most likely has other children) to die in childbirth and leave her children motherless and with a father who very possibly has no idea what hes doing. yeah, yeah that makes ALOT of sense. you can always have another child, but you can never replace a woman who already has impacted hundreds of lives, including her already born children.

these people suck.
lucizoe
is anyone else totally delighted with the term "womb babies"? I dunno - it just sort of rolls off the tongue like a delightfully crunchy sweet treat.
kittenbonanza
"Womb babies"? What other kind of babies are there? :-)
jasmith
Are "womb babies" like Cabbage Patch Kids?
godslioness
Do you think Steve accidentally gave away the pro-lifers' secret plan? To do away with women altogether and generate babies in pods instead?
solitary_fey
Sheesh.... I'm going to be saying that all day... womb babies...
I would like to say first that I am a christian. I personally would not have an abortion ever for personal reasons. That being said, not everyone in this world believes the same as I do. and its none of my f***ing business what anyone does with their body. Except what I do with my own, and that's no one elses business either, not even my husbands, unless I choose to make it his business.
When I was seventeen I volunteered for planned parenthood, becuase when I couldn't afford a gynocologist appointment or birth control, they were immensley helpful. No one usually said anything mean to me at fairs and what not, because I was seventeen and cute and looked like I could be your younger sister (I was petioning for comprihensive sex ed, nothing to do with abortion, and you wouldn't believe how many young men I got to sign :-))
Since we are a country of many different beliefs and cultures, and not all agree, who are we to impose our beliefs on anyone?

P.S. they act like it is so easy on a woman to get an abortion. " Well, at nine o'clock I have to go have an abortion, and then I have to go get my nails done, and then I have to get ready for a date tonight with this new guy..."
An abortion is probably the most heart wrenching desicion a mother will ever have to make, and it could screw them up for years.
and I'm spent.
kittenb
That is really tragic about the tribe suspending their president. That just seemed like South Dakota's greatest hope.
solitary_fey - very well put. I liked your post.
lilacwine13
Womb babies made me snicker. For some reason, I am imagining some sort of cartoon based on that, along the lines of Wonder Showzen.

I'm wondering how many of those people on the council are men, and why are they going after her for this? From my understanding, they live in one of the poorest parts of the country and I would think that other things would be more important than whether or not abortion should be allowed there. I hate misogyny and the assholes who promote it.

Solitary, I like your post too.
lucizoe
Very thoughtfullly put, solitary_fey...and I must chime in with my usual captain bringdown chorus of:

Abortion isn't necessarily a terribly heartwrenching decision for a woman. Mayhaps it is for some, but not for others, and try not to make huge generalizations about it.
solitary_fey
I was being over-dramatic. What I was trying to convey was that I don't think its something that any woman takes lightly if she is in the situation.
pepper
no more lightly that any other surgery, because that's what it is. it's not like sneezing or anything, there are risks and discomfort, if not outright pain involved and that's just the physical aspect of it. i don't know One Single woman who's had an abortion (and i know a LOT or women who have) for whom it was not an intense experience to say the least. i can't even imagine a woman going into it lightly. being sure it was what she wanted? absolutely. not being affected by it? no way.
katiebelle2882
word to that lucizoe...you arent capt bringdown, you are captain reality:-)
alligator
Crap, there goes my alternative fuel plan.
mirabella
My grandmother always said, and I agree, that abortion is a medical procedure and should just be between a woman and her doctor. To make it illegal is as silly as making chemotherapy or heart surgery illegal. If there are too many unnecessary abortions, then birth control needs to be more available.
seraphine
I second that, mirabella. Well said.
jasmith
I guess the anti-choicers *like* looking at the images efilthorp keeps posting links to. Abortion TV?? Come on now.
solitary_fey
That is truly distasteful... and silly.
To think that anyone enjoys looking and disgusting pictures that are most likely doctored is disturbing, jasmith, but anything to confirm their sad little stance, I suppose...
lucizoe
Plus, pretty much any and all "abortion" pictures the forced-birthers like to wave at people are, in reality, pictures of stillborn fetuses and actual dead infants, not the quarter-sized clump of cells a regular termination sucks out.
jasmith
That makes sense lucizoe, because when I'd see these "abortion" pictures, I'd sit there and wonder why in the world the doctors/whoever would *take pictures* of the removed tissue.
ginger_kitty
I saw a really cool bumper sticker today. It read: Pro-family, Pro-child, Pro-choice. I wanted to applaud them. It irritates me that people think Pro-choice thinks you hate babies and all that.
mirabella
ooh, I like that ginger_kitty!
margot
I'm in the UK and the media keeps banging on about abortion limits being lowered here. I see today that the head of the catholic church wants it lowered from 24 weeks, to 12 or something.
I can't imagine a woman aborting at 24 weeks without some damn serious reasons for doing so.

Also, no-one mentions screening tests.
When I was happily pregnant, I was pushed into a number of screening tests. These test for the likelihood of the foetus having some abnormality. My result came back with a high risk of Down's Syndrome for my baby. The result was given to me at 18 weeks. I was offered a diagnostic test, followed by an abortion, if I wished, at 20 weeks.
We agonised over our choices, but decided to forego further testing, and continue with the pregnancy. (Thankfully, all was ok)
My point is; how many governmental pro-lifers are aware of the tremendous pressure on happily pregnant women to have all these screening tests, that, ultimately, ask you to consider abortion?
It makes me mad!
And yeah, gingerkitty, I like the sticker too!
mornington
margot, I heard that on the news this morning. the beeb have an artice. If you scroll down to the last section, there are some figures from Family Planning about the number of abortions after 20 weeks. I'm just a little disconcerted that it seems to be the catholic church pushing the issue all of a sudden, and suddenly it's going to become a religious issue, not a political one.

I do think that many women are pushed into screening tests, but I can see the point in them. You can still refuse them, can't you? (I've never been pregnant, so I'm not sure)
katiebelle2882
mornington, its always been a religious issue. the only reason its a political one is bc thats the only way religious fanatics can make everyone elsee adhere to their ideology. the entire anti abortion debate COMES from religion.
maybe its different in the UK, but the catholic church has always pushed this issue.
mornington
yeah, it's always been a religious issue, but in the uk abortion isn't that much of an issue, full stop. Or at least that's the way it seems to me; when it is an issue it's a health one, or whether or no the parents of a minor should be informed when they have one. It just seems that all of a sudden they're coming out with the religious card; it fucks me off is all. Politicians here are derided for having strong religious beliefs - and the catholics aren't a big force here. There are catholics by the truckload - but they don't seem to have much of a voice.

They're not pushing for banning abortion outright, but a reduction in the limit; it just seems like a bit of a slippery slope type thing.
margot
Hmmm...see, what worries me is that Tony is a catholic.
I think that church-led politics are a bad idea, and I hope we're not going down the USA route.

When I've been pregnant, at my first appointment with the midwife, they schedule you your screening tests. Of course you can refuse, and I did the second time.
I feel that women are bombarded with information and led into screening tests to determine eventually, in some cases if they will keep a baby with 'abnormalities' or not, then villified by some politicians for making that choice.
I just feel that this is a segment of the population which is ignored by the media. Women who choose abortion are often portrayed as accidentally pregnant, maybe careless, and I feel there's a bit of a 'serve 'em right' attitude by pro-lifers. Whilst I think accidental pregnancy is a valid reason for an abortion, perhaps the rule-makers should look at ALL the reasons why women terminate a pregnancy before telling us what we should and shouldn't be able to do.

Sorry, if that's a bit long and rambling, just wanted to join in.
mornington
tony worries me in every way, but particularly that we're going down the usa route. OT, but did you hear about one of the cabinent making a speech, and talking about "social security numbers" and "the federal government". *head/desk interaction*

and I totally agree with what margot said about all the reasons why women have abortions.
smurfin
I am a born 'nd bred Dutch girl, but I lived in London for three years. When I arrived, I was neutral when it came to Tony. Two weeks in, I was at the protest against the Iraq war in London. And at the end of the three years, I could not *stand* to even hear the man speak. Seriously, I still walk out of the room if he's speaking on telly. He has disappointed me. A lot.

Mind you, he's in the good company of our dear PM, mr. Balkenende. The only one I *can* listen to is Bush, and that's only because of entertainment value.
godslioness
The screening thing is more of a dilemma than that though. My friend had to have a late abortion (this is in the UK) because her baby had something - I forget the name – which is sucha severe version of Downs Syndrome that the baby probably would have died before it reached full term. Both screening and abortion seem right to me in those circumstances...

Oh yeah and Tony.........................Prft! That "social security" and "federal government" comment is... not priceless, but depressing
margot
Hi godslioness. That's exactly what I'm talking about. I think some pro-lifers don't see the value of late abortion, or the circumstances in which it's used.
I'm sorry your friend went through that.

Who made the 'federal' comments? Not president Tony, surely?
mornington
I think it was one of the ladies. For some reason I suspect Ruth Kelly, but I'm inclined to blame her (and Beckett) for everything.

I think most late-term abortions are for serious reasons. I'm glad the choice is there, just as the option of screening is there too. While I'm not planning on having kids, I can't help but feel I'd like to know if there was something wrong - like down's - with my child, even if it was just to prepare myself and my family. I do think the pro-lifers tend to forget that, because they're not the ones who're going to be looking after the child and the mother.

I'm sorry your friend had to go through that, godslioness.
godslioness
The pro-lifers would also somehow skate over the fact that, traumatic though abortion is, it can in no way be as excruciating as carrying a child that you know will not even survive to full term.

She did go on to have a healthy, happy baby later though, thank goddess.
snafooey
Is "choice" really all we're fighting for?

It's Salon, so you may have to click through a brief ad to read it. Some of the comments are interesting too.
jasmith
Why the hell is evil-holy-joe here able to use smileys, and I'm not? I always get a page that tells me that smileys don't exist.
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