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Full Version: What the F@%&?! And more feminist outrage...
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culturehandy
I just love the fact that this woman went to a plastic surgeon to increase her self esteem. Who fucking does that.

What a horrible article. I better not get too angry or else I'll become hardened.
auralpoison
Well, it was the Mail. It's pretty much what I'd expect from them. Claptrap & hooey. It's why I love them.
thirtiesgirl
Vomitando. Damn stupid article. Thank you, ladies, for expressing the same disgust I feel when reading it. *love*
hoosierman78
QUOTE(girltrouble @ Jul 29 2008, 06:09 PM) *
listen to the way these guys treated her:

no wonder she ws in acute need of affection. the assholes she's dating are actively working to destroy her self-esteem. the issue isn't you lady, it's the pricks you're dating.

ok, this issue is her, in that she wants to date guys who treat her like shit, then beat herself up for it.

then there's this little chestnut:

so wait... working full time isn't feminine? booking tickets for the holidays isn't feminine? that lady needs to check her head, cos from where that list is heading, the only thing that is feminine, is being helpless. fuck that noise.

and wait...
well fuck. you just undercut the whole article.
just as well considering it was crap anyways.


The part that really blows me away, as a guy, is what the hell are the guys she's seeing thinking in the first place? I'll never in my life comprehend the attraction to the 'helpless little woman'. It is so much more enjoyable to spend time with a strong woman that thinks and acts for herself rather than depending on anyone else to do her thinking for her.
girltrouble
at one point they talk about prefering women who are not feisty. fuck that. some of the women i've admired most are the fiestiest. wicked smart ladies who have an equally wicked sense of humor, and loved to do things the weren't supposed to.

those little boys can keep their helpless, bland barbie dolls.

i'd rather have someone more complex, and challenging.
kittenb
QUOTE(hoosierman78 @ Jul 30 2008, 07:59 AM) *
The part that really blows me away, as a guy, is what the hell are the guys she's seeing thinking in the first place? I'll never in my life comprehend the attraction to the 'helpless little woman'. It is so much more enjoyable to spend time with a strong woman that thinks and acts for herself rather than depending on anyone else to do her thinking for her.


And see hoosierman78, this is why we let you play in our sandbox. wink.gif
cecilia
Before I begin, and as a word of warning, I am slightly inebriated (just finished the bar exam, then hit the first bar I found), so, while this response is primarily in response to the posted article, I may go off on a tangent. I am sick of this "feminity" crap being put on us. I have worked very hard for what I have achieved and hopefully will achieve. I have supported myself for most of my adult life. I am capable of supporting myself and I enjoy living alone. I am entitled to have STANDARDS! I am sick of this attitude that, as a woman, I should give that all that up to soothe a man's ego. I know I am not the hottest chick on the planet, but why would I give anything I have worked so hard for to make a man feel more "masculine?" I am fully capable of having a happy and fulfilling life on my own, I would only consider "settling down" with someone who can enhance that. That doesn't make me defective, or disabled, or in need of diagnosis. That makes me realistic! Why should I be expected to reduce my quality of living to accommodate someone else's "masculinity" or others' ideas of gender roles? If the right guy comes along, he will be "man enough" (a subjective standard, really), and meet my standards, and I will be "feminine" enough for him.
girltrouble
hey cecil (hope you don't mind me calling you that), congrats on taking the bar. my fingers are crossed for you.

i agree. i don't think it's your (or any other woman's) job to buttress some asshole's macho bullshit masculinity.
it kind of makes me sick having suffered from enforced gender roles as a boy, transitioning was, and is still very liberating. i'd hate to think gender enforcement on this end would get as stupid and ridiculous as it is on men.
olivarria
A couple days ago, a doctor told me I have a lot of things in my favor, including that I'm feminine. What does that even mean? It made want to burp and fart right there in his office. smile.gif
erinjane
http://winnipegfreepress.com/breakingnews/...p-4798143c.html

Did you see this one CH? That's disgusting. Unsupervised probation on this guy, repeatedly, until he fucking rapes her?
girltrouble
that is fucked up. the shocker is scrolling to the bottom where they have the timeline. they had umpteen chances to reprimand this asshole, but they let him slide every single time. it's disgusting.
faerietails
QUOTE(olivarria @ Jul 30 2008, 08:16 PM) *
A couple days ago, a doctor told me I have a lot of things in my favor, including that I'm feminine. What does that even mean? It made want to burp and fart right there in his office. smile.gif

*snort* well, better that than crawling in mid-fever for sinus infection drugs and being asked by the doctor if you have breasts. i swear to god, i wanted to give that bitch a proper smackdown, but i was too weak and delirious.

that cop story is horrifying. his arrests were timed so closely together, and they still kept letting him go on bail? what kind of shithead geniuses let that keep going through?
mornington
on the "femininity" article - alternative names suggested for this "newspaper" have included" the daily heil, the daily hatemail, the daily male, and the daily fail. It's the most misogynistic pile of crap currently spewed out by the uk press. some recent articles:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-...woman-have.html
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-...nfertility.html
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-...-time-I-16.html

(starship, as a total aside, you might like this if you're on crackbook: http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=4545210739)

on the cop: gt, I agree the timeline is the scariest bit. FIVE arrests and they didn't do a thing.
auralpoison
Oh, yeah. A while back it was the woman who'd had seven abortions & her story. Not even fit to wrap fish guts in.
starship
thank you all for articulating the total cackness of that 'article' for me. I don't usually read the mail and was a bit baffled to come across it.
I was stupid enough to spend the last 3years with a man with a similar attitude towards women so it pissed me off like mad.

mornington- I dont do la facebook but I checked out the group on a friends. Are you by any chance the lady who posted the last wall post in the group? If so then we go to the same university! If not then this post isn't nearly as exciting as I would have hoped...
olivarria
QUOTE
Do not believe for one moment that women should believe they can ‘have it all’. I would like to see them encouraged to have babies earlier and careers later.


You know, I always wanted to ask a father with a career how he manages to "have it all." "Yeah, just how do you juggle being a father, having a social life, AND a fulfilling career? Did you feel you needed to put off your career so you could have a child? Just how have you managed this nice arrangement?" I bet he would look at me in astronishment, because it just doesn't apply to men. I think this is just more propaganda to scare women away from building careers, and go back to the days where we were supposed to be perpetually barefoot and pregnant. (I never really got the barefoot part.....what does being pregnant having to do with not wearing shoes? Is it swollen feet?)
mornington
starship - I pm'd you smile.gif

olivarria - YES. holycowomgbbq YES. that attitude drives me up the pole. Yes, I can understand that when it comes to childcare and raising a family, sometimes someone's career has to take a back seat to some degree - but I hatehatehate the unspoken assumption that it has to be the woman's. (and I always suspected the barefoot part was so we couldn't run away)
auralpoison
Exactly, Mornington. If you're barefoot you can't get very far. Keeps you close to the homefires & the younguns.
cecilia
QUOTE(girltrouble @ Jul 30 2008, 07:55 PM) *
hey cecil (hope you don't mind me calling you that), congrats on taking the bar. my fingers are crossed for you.

i agree. i don't think it's your (or any other woman's) job to buttress some asshole's macho bullshit masculinity.
it kind of makes me sick having suffered from enforced gender roles as a boy, transitioning was, and is still very liberating. i'd hate to think gender enforcement on this end would get as stupid and ridiculous as it is on men.



Like my 8th grade science teacher always said, "Call me anything you want, just don't call me late for dinner!" Thanks so much! I just hope I won't have to take the damn thing again. I have to wait until October for the results. Now I just have to find a job....
treehugger
QUOTE(olivarria @ Jul 31 2008, 03:23 PM) *
You know, I always wanted to ask a father with a career how he manages to "have it all." "Yeah, just how do you juggle being a father, having a social life, AND a fulfilling career? Did you feel you needed to put off your career so you could have a child? Just how have you managed this nice arrangement?" I bet he would look at me in astronishment, because it just doesn't apply to men. I think this is just more propaganda to scare women away from building careers, and go back to the days where we were supposed to be perpetually barefoot and pregnant. (I never really got the barefoot part.....what does being pregnant having to do with not wearing shoes? Is it swollen feet?)


I always saw the whole "barefoot and pregnant" thing as being sort of taken from the whole stereotype of the appalachia/deliverance hillbilly thing, myself....
olivarria
I thought I would post some of my favorite feminist quotes that I've collected so far:

Advertisers in general bear a large part of the responsibility for the deep feelings of inadequacy that drive women to psychiatrists, pills, or the bottle. ~Marya Mannes, But Will It Sell?, 1964

How good does a female athlete have to be before we just call her an athlete? ~Author Unknown

Men will often admit other women are oppressed but not you. ~Sheila Rowbotham

I've yet to be on a campus where most women weren't worrying about some aspect of combining marriage, children, and a career. I've yet to find one where many men were worrying about the same thing. ~Gloria Steinem

“Men define intelligence, men define usefulness, men tell us what is beautiful, men even tell us what is womanly,” by Sally Kempton

“Men are taught to apologize for their weaknesses, women for their strengths,” by Lois Wyse

“The only way for a woman, as for a man, to find herself, to know herself as a person, is by creative work of her own. There is no other way,” by Betty Friedan

“I do not wish [women] to have power over men; but over themselves,” by Mary Wollstonecraft

Whatever women do they must do twice as well as men to be thought half as good. Luckily, this is not difficult.

Because I am a woman, I must make unusual efforts to succeed. If I fail, no one will say, "She doesn't have what it takes." They will say, "Women don't have what it takes." ~Clare Boothe Luce

Women have been taught that, for us, the earth is flat, and that if we venture out, we will fall off the edge. ~Author Unknown

Women who seek to be equal with men lack ambition. ~Timothy Leary

I became a feminist as an alternative to becoming a masochist. ~Sally Kempton, attributed

I am working for the time when unqualified blacks, browns, and women join the unqualified men in running our government. ~Cissy Farenthold

I see my body as an instrument, rather than an ornament. ~Alanis Morissette
olivarria
A somewhat interesting article by a working mothar.....

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/portal/main.jht...07/ftmum107.xml
culturehandy
I wonder, do working father's "harm" the family? Both of my parents worked, and becuasee of them I have s trong work ethic, and am a strong woman myself.
olivarria
I know this is not really an "outrage," but I thought these stories were relevent to the topic of feminism nonetheless.

Julia Child One Notable Among 24,000 OSS Spies
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/08/13/d...l_n_118820.html

Check out these awesome women who cheated death (#1 and #8):
http://www.cracked.com/article_16497_7-peo...t-in-balls.html

These ladies are phenomenal....I really need to start eating more Wheaties!
sybarite
I get so pissed off reading endless articles on parenting which default to the mother: 'working moms', 'how to be a supermum' etc etc etc. The Observer had yet another article featuring 'working mothers' last weekend. Where is the mention of the fathers?

I would like to see the word 'parent' substituted every single time 'mom' or 'mum' is used in media reportage or features on parenting. No wonder societal expectations continue to put the onus on the mother to make sacrifices and to be the primary parent, when parent so often=mother in the mainstream media.

*fumes*
Queen Bull
QUOTE(culturehandy @ Aug 14 2008, 01:52 PM) *
I wonder, do working father's "harm" the family? Both of my parents worked, and becuasee of them I have s trong work ethic, and am a strong woman myself.


In my humble opinion, it depends on how much the father works. I think that it is important for parents too work, and both of my parents have always worked, except for the nine ish year stint when my sister and i were very small, my mom stayed at home. But, i also think that when either parent obviously, the father in this particular thread of conversation, they have to make sure to develop a relationship with the children. My father has always worked one job and lived in the same house as me, and i can/have gone a week without seeing him. As a result, im more scared of him, because i dont know how he will react to things than I do have a 'normal relationship' with him. Of course, that boils down to defining normal and such, but i suppose thats another topic. It was a source of much anger when i was younger. Of course, I am riding the tail end of the teenage train, so my view is short sighted. ha. That being said though, i have developed a work ethic and a strong head on things because of the way i was raised, so i cant complain.

<3's
freckleface7
I just learned that an exchange student sort of friend of mine from high school went back to macedonia and "chose a wife."

what is this- the damn Dark Ages?? this guy has lived in the States at Least 20 years now.

my immediate thought was ' ... how many sheeps for the girl? '

mad.gif
geekchickknits
QUOTE(freckleface7 @ Aug 20 2008, 02:01 PM) *
I just learned that an exchange student sort of friend of mine from high school went back to macedonia and "chose a wife."

what is this- the damn Dark Ages?? this guy has lived in the States at Least 20 years now.

my immediate thought was ' ... how many sheeps for the girl? '

mad.gif


I don't think there is anything wrong with arranged marriages as long as both parties are involved in the process and doing it willingly.

After all, equating marriage with love is a fairly recent construct.
Moonpieluv
Personal Outrage:
haha..I like how I was belittled for having been "lazy" around the house...that I don't keep it clean enough...that I don't apparently clean up after myself. So therefore I'm a "lazy" uh....scullery maid? Is that what you're getting at? You've even mentioned that somehow I'm lazy or depressed cause I haven't been cooking your meals. WOWEEE!!!

Meanwhile, the yard looks like the house is abandoned. Your toilet smells of sour pee pee so much so that I've taken lysol to it with my head turned. And you somehow have no working knowledge of loading and unloading a dishwasher. I got into this house and had to scrub it down on my hands and knees literally to get it clean. I had to scrub the walls, the cabinets, etc. And have kept up with it until recently cause I stopped giving a rat's ass. I have washed and folded your laundry. Ironed your shirts. Why? I was being nice...at first. I like how you have mentioned doing ALL this stuff for the house, and have never moved from your computer throne. Your a-hole must be swollen cause your head is so tightly submerged in it.

The woman as scullery maid. Nice.

end personal fem. story rant...
xexyz
Ok ladies, it's great you all got implants so your breasts conform to the popular beauty standard, but now it's time to tuck up those vulvas:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/7629897.stm

dry.gif rolleyes.gif

Quoted from the article:

Women want to emulate the supermodel. It's part of a trend

Ok, at least breast implants make sense with this line of thinking, since breasts are mostly visible. But how the fuck does anyone know what the vulvas of supermodels look like??? Is there some site out there where supermodels are exposing their naughty bits for the world to see? I wasn't even aware that there was a consensus common beauty standard for vulvas. This shit is ridiculous.
auralpoison
This is one of those things where I feel it all goes back to porn, not supermodels. All that 18-24 yr old cookie cutter puss is put on display for hungry eyes. You don't see normal, average lady parts unless it's a genre film.

And how many millions of people have seen Britney's or Lindsay's or Paris' or whoever's lady parts because they were careless? I was surfing gossip earlier today & one of the sites was touting Hayden Panetierre's first upskirt pap photo. Thankfully she had draws on, but still.

Although, I saw a woman on Discovery Health that was having her labia trimmed because when she had sex, her VERY pronounced labia would get shoved up inside her by her partner's penis no matter what she tried. Ouch! The doctor cut a HUGE swath of it away & she was as happy as a clam afterwards.
pollystyrene
Clearly, if it's interfering in your everyday functions, I don't think there's anything wrong with having surgery. My own grandma, who had 9 kids, has to go in and have things *adjusted* every couple of decades to prevent a prolapsed uterus. But to have this surgery to conform to some money-grubbing plastic surgeon's ideas is ludicrous. I'm sure that's where it started- some stupid woman had every part of herself nipped, tucked and puffed and her surgeon had to find something else for her to spend her money on.

geekchickknits
I had some vuvlic surgery recently. When I was younger , I had a septate hymen, and the first time I had sex I bled A LOT. Several years later, I was having sex with a partner, and noticed afterwards that there was blood. Nothing seemed to be wring with him, so I pulled out the old hand mirror. Essentially, I had lost my virginity twice - there was a remnant of my hymen and it had broken again. So my cooch looked like it had a uvula. I went to a doctor, and they told me that they could make an appointment with a gyno for me, and have it removed, but I figured as long as it wasn't bugging me, I didn't care. Lately, however, I had been finding that during sex it had been getting pulled and afterwards I would see that there was bruising, and sometimes bleeding if it separated more. Also, it was directly below my urethra, which meant that if it was getting pulled around, my pee hole would get irritated sad.gif I decided it had finally become a health and not a cosmetic issue. I went to go see a gyno, thinking I was just going in for a consult. Nope. Five minutes, some local anesthetic, and a few sutures later it was gone. I'm still getting used to the new landscape. smile.gif
Jezebel
Does the fact that some people are actually claiming that Sarah Palin is a feminist count as feminist outrage? wink.gif
freckleface7
QUOTE(Jezebel @ Oct 3 2008, 10:59 PM) *
Does the fact that some people are actually claiming that Sarah Palin is a feminist count as feminist outrage? wink.gif

in my opinion jezebel - YES !
hellotampon
QUOTE(geekchickknits @ Sep 24 2008, 02:02 AM) *
I had some vuvlic surgery recently. When I was younger , I had a septate hymen, and the first time I had sex I bled A LOT. Several years later, I was having sex with a partner, and noticed afterwards that there was blood. Nothing seemed to be wring with him, so I pulled out the old hand mirror. Essentially, I had lost my virginity twice - there was a remnant of my hymen and it had broken again. So my cooch looked like it had a uvula. I went to a doctor, and they told me that they could make an appointment with a gyno for me, and have it removed, but I figured as long as it wasn't bugging me, I didn't care. Lately, however, I had been finding that during sex it had been getting pulled and afterwards I would see that there was bruising, and sometimes bleeding if it separated more. Also, it was directly below my urethra, which meant that if it was getting pulled around, my pee hole would get irritated sad.gif I decided it had finally become a health and not a cosmetic issue. I went to go see a gyno, thinking I was just going in for a consult. Nope. Five minutes, some local anesthetic, and a few sutures later it was gone. I'm still getting used to the new landscape. smile.gif


ouch! My hymen is still not completely broken...
geekchickknits
QUOTE(hellotampon @ Oct 4 2008, 12:57 AM) *
ouch! My hymen is still not completely broken...


This is probably more appropriate for another thread, but I would say (particularly if there are dangling bits) go to a gyno and get it removed. The local anaesthetic needle hurt, but aside from that it healed very quickly andthings look good! Tho I have yet to take it out for a spin.... lol
xexyz
Wow.

Lots to be angry about in this article, but this piece of shit certainly makes his case for misongynist scumbag of the year. dry.gif

I also find it completely appalling that verbal remarks are considered more serious than degrading sexual exploitation, but I'm also sad to say that it doesn't shock me in the slightest.
culturehandy
I think I'm going to get sick.
tommynomad
People like Servaty make me want to rethink my pacifist philosophy. A bullet in the back of the head is the first thing that comes to mind.

I'm amazed I had any outrage left for the ridiculous conclusions about Belgium & Europe at the end of the article.

Having check out a little more of the BJ site, I'm disgusted to discover their anti-woman, anti-immigrant, anti-gay positions. Though the idea literally brought bile to my throat, I suspect they covered the Servaty story because they knew it would appeal to their readership.
auralpoison
From Wiki:

"Families of the photographed women have placed a bounty on his head, and both he and his wife received death threats. Servaty was forced into hiding in fear for his life. Servarty said in an interview that he was a sex addict and apologized for his actions."

What I think is weird is that the guy is *married*. What kind of a fucked-up doormat would marry that piece of slime?

I've seen his degrading pics & he has a really SMALL cock.
xexyz
QUOTE(auralpoison @ Oct 9 2008, 04:28 PM) *
"Families of the photographed women have placed a bounty on his head, and both he and his wife received death threats. Servaty was forced into hiding in fear for his life. Servarty said in an interview that he was a sex addict and apologized for his actions."


I just wonder, do they want him dead because of what he did to these women, or because his actions have brought "shame" on these families' "honor"? Perhaps I'm being to cynical?

So many of these women live in desperate enough situations as it is; for this parasite to use that desperation to degrade them the way he did just for his own amusement is beyond the pale vile. How removed from empathy and humanity do you have to be to do stuff like that?

Speaking of which, what does it say about society that there seems to be no mention of any investigation into mental illness on his part? I mean, everyone speculates about the mental state of pedophiles and other sexual predators, but this guy gets a free pass on his mental health? I'm going to stop with this line of reasoning now because frankly I don't like where it's leading.
tommynomad
xexyz, I thought about the mental health issue, too. But you know what? I don't care. I don't care if he's certified batshit. I know it's awful and unsympathetic, but if/when mental illness turns into depravity, cruelty, and yes: evil, I'm a lot less inclined to consider the cause.
dj-bizmonkey
being crazy and knowing the difference between right and wrong are two completely different things. that guy is a total misogynist slime-bucket and i wish his wife (how the hell do these guys get married?!) would kick him out on his sorry ass. i don't know that i even believe in rehabilitation for most sex offenders.
i_am_jan
These sort of stories are so plentiful these days.

They make them out to be so simple, black & white: women are unsuspecting victims. men are smarter. able to assert power over them to get them to do stuff. yah.

???

To me, it's just another case of women who should, and in many cases do, know better than to sleep with a strange idiot, *and* let them bring their camera along.

I mean, isn't photographing/videotaping something you do with only your most intimate lovers ~ after knowing and trusting them for a while? I know that I do. I don't really need that beaten into my skull?

granted, certainly some of these women WERE unsuspecting victims. and of course desperate. (Perhaps I'm just tired of hearing these sort of stories and feeling sorry for people who trust strange men?)

It is my belief that some women are a bit quick to throw caution to the wind, and to put that on record. This is consensual. This is assumption of risk.

Stupid is stupid. I believe stupid is fully accountable in many cases.

On the bright side, there is a much-needed lesson here for anyone who gives a shit about learning it. Not sure some women actually give a shit about their sex/privacy online and, if they don't, why the F should I?
tommynomad
It's not that all women are hapless, helpless victims, less bright than all men. It's that this one smart (piece of shit) guy preyed on vulnerable, likely not-so-bright women. I don't think it's antifeminist to suggest that some people (including some women) could be brighter, or need their brothers and sisters looking out for them, rather than promising them escapes from desperate situations and then taking advantage of them.


My WTF goes out to Pepsi. I wouldn't buy their shitty sugarwater for my dog, but that's neither here nor there. In addition to their appalling record of child labour & environmental degradation, Pepsi has decided that ads making a joke out of sexual assault (of an UNCONSCIOUS woman) will help them sell more of their garbage. I saw this on feministe today:

http://shakespearessister.blogspot.com/200...svertising.html

I immediately wrote Pepsi and told them their products (including their juices/waters) would never again enter my grocery cart or my home:
http://cr.pepsi.com/usen/pepsiusen.cfm?or=

Spread the word.
crazyoldcatlady
*sigh*

another misogynistic ad.

why am i not surprised anymore. thanks tommy. i emailed them.
culturehandy
Disgusting, I also wrote and complained. I don't buy coke or pepsi, but this add solidifies that I will NEVEr buy pepsi or any of it's products again. I also made a comment about how rape always makes me feel so thirsty,I'll just have to reach for a pepsi. Hey, maybe while I'm at it I can had to rohypnol to it as well.
i_am_jan
I hear what you're saying Tommy.

To me, attempting to manipulate/fuck your way into a better life situation could be considered "not so bright."

But not getting the stranger's money in your hand first? Not even a down payment before you perform? that's where "dumb" came in for me.

I'm not saying any of these women were any dumber than the average street whore , but .... at least she knows you gotta pay before you play. (I am pro-whore, pro-sex work, for the record)

I've sent several choice words to Pepsi after my speechlessness subsided. They're getting worse, I think...wasn't it Pepsi who ran that TV commercial a couple years ago where a still-teen Britney Spears dances on screen, and then they cut to gnarly old Bob Dole whose telling his dog "down boy."? (I'm not sure, but I think it was Pepsi?)
culturehandy
Jan, correct you are, I remember Lewis Black making fun of that in one of his routines. It was a superbowl commercial, I believe.
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