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Full Version: What the F@%&?! And more feminist outrage...
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vixen_within
QUOTE(i_am_jan @ Oct 18 2008, 08:15 PM) *
.... (I am pro-whore, pro-sex work, for the record)
..


yeah, with friends like these..

that article makes me unbearably sad. those women's behaviour reminds me of how i could have behaved when i was really young, virginal, full of fairy tales and vague ideas of gallantry, and on some level thought of older men as fathers, who would protect me, not abuse me. that was what i'd been socialized to think. i can imagine being willing, even eager to give a man the benefit of the doubt in a society that honors and prioritizes men and their needs and their POV. i'm not even bringing in the white privilege here and what that really means in real life when we're talking about trust and benefit of the doubt. they aren't stupid women, just inexperienced.
i_am_jan
QUOTE(vixen_within @ Oct 19 2008, 12:49 AM) *
yeah, with friends like these..


Yep. I'm pretty much the friend who will tell you to learn to your lesson, wise up, and get yo money. Not the friend who'll go "awww, you poor sad thing" every time you do something really silly.

Cheers tongue.gif
vixen_within
QUOTE(i_am_jan @ Oct 18 2008, 08:15 PM) *
I hear what you're saying Tommy.

To me, attempting to manipulate/fuck your way into a better life situation could be considered "not so bright."

But not getting the stranger's money in your hand first? Not even a down payment before you perform? that's where "dumb" came in for me.

I'm not saying any of these women were any dumber than the average street whore , but .... at least she knows you gotta pay before you play. (I am pro-whore, pro-sex work, for the record)...


your line about "any dumber than the average street whore" gave me pause. kind of a fucked up statement. what does that even mean to you, and how many do you know? and are you really taking for granted that that fucko's version of events is the whole truth of it (the meeting and sexing within minutes) without hearing the women's version of it? as i said, with friends like these..
i_am_jan
Yeah? That's not saying the average street whore is dumb.

It's just saying these women aren't any dumber than your average street whore.

I understand what I mean by this. I can understand why you don't. I knew it would be confusing as I was typing it and almost changed it because it wasn't the best choice of words.

So I will let you know I don't think street whores are dumb.

Let's just say i know some.

I will say I feel these women *acted* stupidly because that is my opinion.

You seem offended. Sorry for the confusion.
vixen_within
I think you were trying to say something insulting about the women using the ol' dumb street whore trope to do it so yeah it was an offensive thing to say, but a lot of people do it. it's in essence what the fucko was saying in his publications of (his version) of the events and very likely what those women's families and communities are saying too.
i_am_jan
Nah, if I thought street whores were dumb I'd say I think street whores are dumb, that's my opinion, and be done with it. But I don't think street whores are dumb and I support sex workers.
kittenb
QUOTE
Stupid is stupid. I believe stupid is fully accountable in many cases.


QUOTE
Yep. I'm pretty much the friend who will tell you to learn to your lesson, wise up, and get yo money. Not the friend who'll go "awww, you poor sad thing" every time you do something really silly.

Cheers


i_am_jan, you might think that you are supporting sex workers but you are really not being any kind of ally to victims. Do you think that someone who went through the experience listed below would need another voice saying, "You are an idiot"? Trust me, that voice is already in the woman's head. Maybe there was some poor judgement involved in the choices that these women made but it does not mean that the guy is any less responsible for his own actions that prove him to be an reprehensable asshole. What you are saying in your posts is pure and total victim blaming.
vixen_within
well jan it's not like i thought you were single handedly bringing down the entire sex worker's rights and feminist movements. it's just something i'm getting tired of hearing, especially from people who i think of as natural allies.
i_am_jan
You're entitled to your opinion. No problem here.
tommynomad
I wub.gif vixen within & kittenb.

Yesterday I got a note from someone I thought of as an ally on the Pepsi ad scandal. She said words to the effect of "don't feminists have bigger fish to fry?"
Fucking self-defeatist, impotent attitude really gores my bull.
culturehandy
So, I just wanted to share the e-mail I received back from Pepsi Canada about the ad;

Hi (my name here):

Thanks for taking the time to contact us.

I want to assure you that there's absolutely no truth to the posting you may have seen on the internet. After investigating this matter further, we learned that an advertising agency developed this print ad on "speculation" and it inadvertently made its way to the internet.

Please know that we would never use this type of imagery to sell our products. We are not using this image now, nor do we have any plans to use it in the future.

Thanks again for taking the time to bring this to our attention. We’re sincerely sorry that this has upset you and we're grateful to have had the opportunity to set the record straight.

Sincerely,
auralpoison
The fact that this is necessary at all makes me ill. I understand the need to protect one's person, but this is tantamount to saying, "Hey, you *know* you're gonna get raped. Be prepared & snag his tallywhacker!"
geekchickknits
QUOTE(auralpoison @ Oct 29 2008, 01:06 PM) *
The fact that this is necessary at all makes me ill. I understand the need to protect one's person, but this is tantamount to saying, "Hey, you *know* you're gonna get raped. Be prepared & snag his tallywhacker!"


What's to stop him raping you with a hard inanimate object? Or simply beating you unconscious, removing it, and then raping you? Not good, not good.
erinjane
I think this discussion came up a few years ago too. I imagine that having hooks in your penis is pretty painful but I'm sure that it would just enrage many attackers and make the situation more dangerous. This is such a bandaid solution to a much bigger problem.
thirtiesgirl
Ok, I have a question to pose to the Busties about an issue I'm having on another forum. I'm interested in your responses.

On this other forum, which shall remain nameless, there's an "I'm so pissed off" thread for forum members to post things that are angering them in the moment. A few days ago, a guy who works in retail wrote a pissed off post about a female customer who angered him, referring to her several times as a 'cunt,' as in 'I'm so angry at you, you cunt,' 'why did you have to act that way, you cunt,' etc. He didn't call her the c-word in person, just in his pissed off post.

I wrote a response stating that I sympathize with his anger at the customer, but that I wish he'd choose a different pejorative term other than the c-word. The guy's response, in an attempt to mollify me, was "Sorry, I didn't mean for my anger to offend you, I'm not angry at the woman any more."

My issue with his post wasn't his anger with the customer, but his kneejerk response to call her a 'cunt' in writing. I expressed this in my next post to him, likening it to people's sometimes thoughtless response when they say something or someone is "so gay." The intent is not overtly homophobic, but they don't seem to realize that by equating a word used to describe someone's sexual orientation to mean 'stupid' or 'lame,' they are, subconsciously, expressing homophobia.

This resulted in a brief discussion between the guy and a few other members about the use of the term 'gay,' which I didn't join. The issue seemed to die down...until another female forum member got upset with my post about equating the guy's use of the word 'cunt' to people's use of the phrase "that's so gay." This is her response, in a nutshell:

"I come to visit this forum as a respite, not to hear people get on their soapboxes and blather on about the moral high ground. I believe people on this forum can tell the difference between the 'good cunt' and the 'bad cunt,' the 'silly gay' and the 'homophobic gay' [quotes mine], so have an open mind before blathering on about the moral high ground and getting on your soapbox next time."

My question is this: would you have let the guy's pissed off post using the c-word slide, or would you have said something? And question #2: am I making too big a deal of this?

I ask because I've experienced much the same thing on other forums. I don't go after every post I feel uncomfortable with, but when I feel a guy is really in the wrong, I'll say something. And invariably, someone will usually post something like this female member wrote, expressing their desire to visit the forum for enjoyment purposes only, they don't want to read my 'moral high ground/soapbox blather' and 'I don't have an open mind.' Even more strange to me is the fact that the person who writes this kind of post is usually female. I would think they'd be just as angry about how the guy is choosing to act, rather than essentially telling me to 'shut up and accept it.'

...I don't know. What do you think, Busties? Am I wrong?


xexyz
Personally I think cunt has a lot less baggage than some other popular terms, and hence don't have much of a problem with it. It's pretty analogous to calling a guy a dick, and used in the same sense. A guy being a jerk is a dick, and a woman being a jerk is a cunt.

I think using "gay" as an epitaph for something stupid or unpleasant is more offensive, since it's a proper term used in everyday paralance to describe homosexuality. The terms dick and cunt are mostly considered to be vulgar right from the start.
erinjane
While I don't disagree with either of the posters, thirtiesgirl, I would let the issue drop anyway and just not reply. I think you're in the right, but it doesn't sound like it's worth it to reply because you might as well pick your battles and this doesn't sound like one you're going to win, it just sounds like a situation that will end up making you frustrated.

But on the topic of using the word cunt, I use it in a reclaiming sort of way occasionally in the anatomy sense, but I know friends who hate it because their father called them a 'cunt' when he was angry or because they felt it was used a mysogynist insult against them personally. I think when used as an insult it carries a lot of connotations behind it. Most women I know are extremely uncomfortable with the word being used as an insult and for some reason it seems to be thought of as one of the worst things you can call a woman. I think it's a horrible word to use because of all the connotations behind it and I don't think there's a good excuse for it.

I don't think I find either gay or cunt more offensive than the other; when used in a particular way they're both pretty offensive. It isn't really possible to quantify offensiveness anyway. tongue.gif
tommynomad
I agree to let it drop, thirtiesgirl, though I agree with your stance.

I think it's important to acknowledge that some words carry different meanings to different people and intonations. That doesn't make it right, it's just something to know.

In our family, "she's got cunt" = "he's got balls" = bravery. Women we admire for their brash, irreverent BUSTiness are "cunty." I hope that when the term spills out of our friendship circle, it carries some of that positive power with it. Language is alive, and that means we all have the power to shape it.
roquelaure

i am 110% aware that this is a positively asinine, nonsensical, counter-productive, and... i don't know what the word is i'm looking for right now, i'm having one of those pms-induced stupid/clumsy days (see the period thread in "our bodies" thread for explanation, haha).

anyway, i feel the same way about the use of the C-word as some gay men or african americans do about using n*gger or f*ggot: there's a difference between a girl using it to describe herself or another female, but if a guy uses it, i get furious.

i know, i know!! i'm pissed at myself for thinking that way, but i can't help it. it's empowering for a chick to claim her cuntness or use it in anger, but if someone doesn't have one, you don't get the right to.

yeah i'm gonna stop now before i dig myself into an even bigger hole...
auralpoison
Honestly, I think there is a huge cultural gap in the usage of the word "cunt". When I lived abroad it was bandied about willynilly, but in the US it's terribly taboo. It's the last bastion of curse words in the US when somebody is REALLY angry, so I think it does indeed pack a certain punch here amongst women & men alike. I've seen fights between people where when that word was dropped the fisticuffs were raised. It's a heavily loaded word here in the states.

I don't think calling somebody a "dick" is quite the same as "cunt" because "dick" still implies masculinity. If I call somebody a "short-dick motherfucker" it's not the same as calling him a "cunt" because it's often used to ridicule a man's masculinity. A man can deal with having a short penis, but the dreaded "cunt" means to make them feel lesser than a male; IE female & we all know that's a bad thing under our largely patriarchal society. "Pussy" is so mainstream nobody bats an eye, but "cunt"? That's the be all, end all of insults to most American men & women.

So first I read this.
And then I read the real story.

I just don't get it. Why is it that Sharia law puts it all on women when they are raped? They always say that the laws are in place to protect women, but they clearly aren't. Some asshole acts out his aggression on an innocent woman & it's HER fault. And so she gets stoned to death like it's the fucking normal thing to do.

There are Somali Muslims that live in the apartment building across the street from my house. The men all hang out in front & smoke & gab, the women get to take short walks around the neighborhood a couple times a week. I wonder sometimes what they think of seeing me walking around by myself several times a week, often times after dark. I don't dress immodestly, but they can see my hair & that I do have a shape. Does my engaging in my independence bother them? Do they think I'm a whore because I was out mowing my lawn in a knee length sleeveless summer dress & flipflops? Or am I just an wanton, godless, American infidel to be ignored?
deschatsrouge
As a rape victim that suffered from victim blaming, that shit fucks with my chi.
Christine Nectarine
This story about a woman killed by her husband after 30 years of marriage was all over our local news yesterday. it's terrible that this happened, and i'm sure it's devastating for those that knew her.

what gets me is all the comments from the community - "I can't believe this happened in our quiet neighbourhood", "they seemed like such a nice couple", "I don't understand how this could happen"
and no one that i've yet heard has recognized that this type of homicide happens ALL THE TIME, IN EVERY COMMUNITY. so many women are not safe in their own homes. if there was a history of abuse (rather likely) the guy was a former cop, so i'm sure he was smart enough to keep it quiet.
i can't help but wonder if this woman wanted help, and no one recognized it. it seems as though everyone is in such shock that this upstanding guy commited this crime, that they are not OUTRAGED at him, and saying "she did not deserve this"
Christine Nectarine
wtf? mad.gif go away.

p.s. you can't spell.
candycane_girl
Argh, wtf! Okay, so this isn't a huge deal but I definitely can't believe. I was just on Facebook and browsing around when I noticed that one of the ads on the sidebar says something about implants and finding the perfect one. I thought maybe it was a joke so I clicked on it and sure enough it led to the website for some plastic surgery clinic! As if having ads for diets to "get rid of that muffin top" wasn't bad enough they now have this? Also, I'm pretty sure that they try to show some ads that are in line with your interests. ie I listed The Big Lebowski and Fawlty Towers in my favourites so I usually get ads for t-shirts that reference them. But they are advertising to the wrong girl. If anything I would want to get my girls reduced.
anarch
hey candycane - funny coincidence, I just read a post on feministing last night that talks about clicking on "thumbs up" or "thumbs down" icons underneath Facebook ads that will let you rate those kinds of ads as "uninteresting" or "offensive". I never even noticed the thumbs before because those ads are so annoying I looked in their direction as little as possible.

I spent about 20 min last night clicking "uninteresting" and "offensive" for about 10 diet ads. According to the feministing article, at some point Facebook clues in and stops putting that kind of shit on your screen.

Also there's some mention of how you don't see those kinds of make-women-feel-inadequate ads, if you don't self-identify as female on your profile. I haven't tried that yet.
tankgirl
Interesting, I never see the diet adds on facebook, just on myspace, and it is making me not ever want to visit myspace ever again.
pollystyrene
QUOTE(anarch @ Nov 21 2008, 03:39 PM) *
hey candycane - funny coincidence, I just read a post on feministing last night that talks about clicking on "thumbs up" or "thumbs down" icons underneath Facebook ads that will let you rate those kinds of ads as "uninteresting" or "offensive". I never even noticed the thumbs before because those ads are so annoying I looked in their direction as little as possible.

I spent about 20 min last night clicking "uninteresting" and "offensive" for about 10 diet ads. According to the feministing article, at some point Facebook clues in and stops putting that kind of shit on your screen.

Also there's some mention of how you don't see those kinds of make-women-feel-inadequate ads, if you don't self-identify as female on your profile. I haven't tried that yet.


Thanks for the tip- maybe now I can get rid of all the damn engagement ring ads in mine.
humanist77
"10 women charged him with drugging and sex attacks, but juries said no"

just infuriating. this article contains some rape accounts, be warned.
anarch
polly, good luck! Also I forgot to link the actual Feministing thread. The comments are very interesting too. Some women said that if they identified themselves as "married," that apparently for Facebook translates into wanting to see tons of baby-related ads.


humanist, that article is enraging.

Of all the rape cases that come across prosecutors’ desks, stranger-rape cases have the best courtroom odds, with 68 percent ending with a conviction or guilty plea. But when a woman knows her assailant briefly (less than 24 hours), a mere 43 percent of cases end in a conviction. When they know each other longer than 24 hours, the conviction rate falls to 35 percent. Even fewer, 29 percent, of intimate partners and exes are punished.

I want to punch something.

Thanks for posting it though.
humanist77
Another enraging case of blaming rape victims. They had basically proven the guy was guilty-a psychologist deemed him a serial rapist, and they found freakin syringes with date rape drugs in his apartment! And yet I guess because some of the women had contacted him again, civilly, it must not have been rape. I hate people. I would never be picked for a jury with anything involving violence because I feel too strongly about it. Hopefully the latest accusation from the woman at the ski resort will be successful.

Speaking of offensive Facebook/Myspace diet ads, here's one that I saw on Myspace tonight and I was luckily able to drag the image onto my desktop. I did a serious double take on this one. I know it's photoshopped to shit, but that waist is severely anorexic. And I don't understand the text in relation to the image-are they actually implying that this person still needs to lose weight? Or is this image the ideal figure? Either way, it's totally disgusting.

I changed my status on Facebook to neither male or female, and now I'm not getting diet or engagement ring ads anymore. I think I'll have to do it on Myspace too.
Jezebel
That ad is beyond ridiculous.
humanist77
oh, did I mention I'm 25 years old? I'm sure if I were 24 it would say "24".
I really think these are dangerous. What happens when people with serious eating disorders see those ads?
deschatsrouge
I had the same ad, but because I'm 27 it said 27. I just ignore that shit.
humanist77
the scary thing is that the people who are most likely to fall for these ads are the most vulnerable in their self-image; the ones likely to suffer the worst damage from acting on the ads. As if these advertisers know this and want to prey on the most fragile people, likely young women. I want to find that one ad again and contact the company to let them know how dangerous such advertisement is...
deschatsrouge
Sorry for being ot, but Humanist I love your signature.
Lily_Anne
A guy I know used the word disfigurement to describe pregnancy!

I was so mad, but at the time I kept my mouth shut because the conversation was actually about something else. I didn't want to make a scene. Regrets. Still thinking about it a week later, I'm more sad now than anything else.

Pregnancy is not a disease! Bodies are disfigured by terrible accidents or horrendous arthritis. But NOT by growing children inside of them, when parents are emotionally and economically ready. I know two gorgeous, sexy women who are 8 months along -- and many before them. God willing, I will meet someone to spend forever with and have a baby myself. How would I describe it? Wonderful roundness. Uncomfortable, maybe.

Beautiful. Radiant. All those cliches. Perfect.
pollystyrene
Wow, this pisses me off.

Read the actual legal complaint here- it has some interesting details in there.

Here is the website of the doctor being sued.

What an ass.
erinjane
That's terrifying. I read through the legal complaint. Totally disgusting. I can't imagine having to give birth in such a scary situation. I hope he gets his license revoked.
Christine Nectarine
QUOTE(erinjane @ Dec 16 2008, 02:49 PM) *
That's terrifying. I read through the legal complaint. Totally disgusting. I can't imagine having to give birth in such a scary situation. I hope he gets his license revoked.



indeed. as though childbirth cant be traumatic enough as it is! it's an appaling case.
ihateoly
That guy desrves to pass kidney stones without any pain meds and then be kicked in the balls for good measure and then be made fun of by his doctor. What a sadistic, hateful ASSHOLE!
konphusion26
That doctor is a sick bastard. He needs to have his balls stitched with that big azz needle he stitched her up with - and no anesthetic! I'm mad as hell at the husband for standing by allowing all that to happen to his wife. He could have called another doctor in or something! But I guess I can understand not thinking of all that in the moment. If he'd left her to find another doc - who knows what that sicko woulda done to her. That is ridiculous... My blood is boiling right now. I checked Dr. Sadistic's website, and here's his mission statement to which I say, you've got to be shitting me!

Dr. Scott M. Pierce is a physician in Melrose Park, Illinois, specializing in Obstetrics and Gynecology. He has over 20 years of delivery and surgical experience.

Mission and Objectives:

* For the Care of Women.
* Treating patients promptly and with compassion.
* Providing the personal touch of a solo physician.
* Spending the time necessary so that patients can understand treatment plans.
* Keeping up to date with innovations in the medical field.
freckleface7
that is just wrong.
after already having 4 kids, that woman likely could have done a better job giving birth on her own.
I hope he looses his license, or at least she discredits him enormously.

my feminist outrage: frecklette's high school sent home a letter endorsing/encouraging the gardasil vaccine today. mad.gif the very same vacccine that has not been tested well yet and has been proven (as such) to cause side affects the likes of paralsis, sterility & death.

it makes me furious that some "Dr" on the letterhead is probably getting some sort of compensation for endorsing this drug and no doubt hundreds, possibly thousands of mothers will recieve this information, take it soley at face value and get it for their daughters.
My daughter is not a guinea pig and that some "DR" is going to be getting an angry phone call tomorrow from This Mother !
pollystyrene
I'm on the fence about the Gardisil vaccine; in theory it's great, but it seems like there are some issues with it (I'm out of the age range that they say you can have it in, so it doesn't really apply to me) but I do think it's weird that the school is involving themselves in it. I guess they are the same ones who give your information to the military recruiters, though, too. They called me a few times in high school, and this was 10-11 years ago. I can't even imagine how voracious they've been in the last 6-7 years. Egad.
ketto
I agree, I don't know about the vaccine yet either. I agree it's great in theory but it's just waaay to early to be promoting it at such a high level when clearly there are some serious side effects. I think it needs at least another few years of rigorous testing. Not to mention we still don't know if there are any long term side effects that might effect those who were vaccinated later in life.
crazyoldcatlady
i'm completely on the other side of the fence. i wholeheartedly support the gardasil vaccine (see the HPV thread for some of my reasons).
do i think the school needs to be getting involved? NO. That's between the girl and her physician, and maybe, MAYBE her parents.

for the vaccine to become approved, there's already been some vigorous testing. it's certainly possible to experience side effects, but the chances of experiencing the severe ones in a healthy person are rare. i'd rather take my chances with that, than with cervical cancer, which is a disease that can also cause sterility and death. not to mention the emerging evidence of the role of HPV in oral carcinomas.

$0.02.
ladylustlove

below is the link for a european washing machine commercial.
In it, women are jumping out of
a plane topless.What the fuck does that have to do with anything??
Breasts sell washing machines i guess??
Its so stupid. GRRRR.
Pointless fucking exploitation.

what the hell
swedishchick
Slightly OT, but can anyone post some links to GOOD info on Gardasil?

I'm preggers with a girl, and they're considering introducing it in the national health care program here. I want to know what risks we're taking with this, even if it this will happen more than 10 years form now.
auralpoison
Ya'll, I believe there is some talk of the Gardasil debate over in OBOH.

And Swedishchick, since you're only pregnant at this point, Gardasil isn't really much of a health concern for your daughter until she's nine or ten as it's for females between nine & twenty-six. And by then we should hopefully have a better handle on the longterm effects of Gardasil & possibly a better alternative.

And breasts can sell *anything*, Ladylustlove.

This pissed me off.
ihateoly
Oh, Aural, that is fucking AWFUL. I can't believe those asshole pigs had the nerve to go back to the kid's school and arrest her AGAIN. *shakes head in disbelief* I hope her and her parents sue the shit out of Galveston and win. Then they can move far, far away from that awful place. Poor kid. mad.gif As for the cops, they deserve to lose their badges and serve some jail time, at the very least. They should be forced to pay the family restitution and make a formal public apology as well. I can't believe they would try and justify what they did.
freckleface7
cocl: I read back to your list of reason why you're in favor of gardasil & I respect them all.
you however, are a grown, physically matured Woman.
frecklette's school district sent out this flier to {the parents of } all girls grades 5-12.
considering that sterility is one of the possible side affects (small but it has happened), that's makes it not just a health-issue, but a Reproductive one as well. I fight/will fight for freckette's right to Choose to not have a child and I will also then certainly fight for the Public-tax-payer-supported school system she goes to not to shove this irresponsible bullshit down the gullets of thousands of naieve parents.
when frecklette was in 5th grade (which would be her last year in middle school) I had already years before had the Talk About Your Body & began the on-going dialog about sex & all that goes on to this day, but had I recieved a flier of that ilke back then, I may likely have interpreted it as " oh; another vaccine freck jr needs this year"
much along the same lines as say, the measles or something.

I'm not saying gardasil is a terrible thing, I just think it needs a HELL of a lot more testing and in that light I find it reproachful that her school would endorse it.
there's got to be money changing hands somewhere and it disgusts me. mad.gif

swedishchick, not meaning to come across as bossy (bc yes, clearly I Am fired up right now, lol) but in your shoes I'd certainly try to educate myself as much as possible about the vaccine. hopefully though, by the time your girl (yah & congrats!) is of age for it all this debate will be settled & we'll know if it's really safe or not.

== hops off shoe box ==

as to that poor little girl being attacked like that - omfuckin'Maud!!
I'da come out w/ a damn baseball bat anyone try to take & hurt my daughter!
that she put up such a fight as to warrant them charging her w/ battery (which I am sure is souped up) I say Good for her!! I hope she kneed the bastards in the jimmey bc it's Totally what they all deserved!
that poor POOR little girl!
and hello socio-racial profiling much in that situation??
they knew the warrant was for a White Prostitute, but they saw this little African American girl in "tight fitting shorts" and BAM! no more questions asked.
AND -- what about her Miranda Rights being read while they were cuffing or "arresting" her?

I hope to hell they get a kick ass laywer & those cops get fired. I'd feel safer & more competent w/ Barney Fife as sherif there.

= end rant really this time w/ apologies =
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