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stargazer
bob4both, Pres. Obama has actively credited his mother and his maternal side of the family for his upbringing. I remembering hearing him speak about his mother and his grandparents often during his election. I'm confused what you find to be him not giving credit to his white heritage. blink.gif
bob4both
"I was trying to raise myself to be a black man in America, and beyond the given of my appearance, no one around me seemed to know exactly what that meant."
"I noticed … that Santa was a white man."
"...such a pleasant surprise to find a well-mannered young black man"
"To avoid being mistaken for a [racial] sellout, I chose my friends carefully"
“…and it is usually a discovery, for I ceased to advertise my mother’s race at the age of twelve or thirteen, when I began to suspect that by doing so I was ingratiating myself to whites)”
[Quote] on whether Bill Clinton was "really our first black president"
"I found a solace in nursing a pervasive sense of grievance and animosity against my mother’s race"

Look; I'm not trying to start a race thing here; my point is more along the lines of the feminist perspective on his mother (or lacking the mention thereof), which I think the above quotes illustrate for those who believe Obama gives credit to his mother's racial perspective. There's obviously many more that I could cite... The point is I've heard/read enough from Obama's own lips that made me think of this from the feminist perspective (and hence the question I originally asked). The inference from the subsequent replies is that I'm drawing my perspective based on media & societal comment; I'm not. The above quotes are all from Obama.

And because I don't think he's living up to the promises made (or inferred) on issues that matter to ME doesn't mean I think McCain would "have done a better job". Never considered it, never mentioned it, never inferred it, never BELIEVED it. Yup, all politicians are full of shit...but we had a promise for an audicity to hope.

Enough political comment. This is not where I intended it to go. But, there is some pretty good political fodder here that I wouldn't mind moving to a different thread!
ketto
I guess I'm confused as to what you have an issue with, b4b. In regards to those quotes, do you feel that he should be talking about his white heritage more because he refers to himself as a black man? I think I almost take it as a given that of course he's able to see and understand his mother's racial perspective (because white is the default here), however, he is a black man. If he wasn't the president and I saw him on the street I would assume he identifies as a black man. It's true, his mother is white and comes from her own perspective, but so is he, as a black man. I agree with star and AP, that he does credit his mother as a mother and a woman who taught him well.

This discussion feels like it probably belongs more in the white privilige thread, if anything. If you're still interested in it, I would bring it over there.
stargazer
bob4both, I still fail to see by the quotes you listed below how he is dismissing his mother and, therefore, his white heritage. I reference AP's discussion about the one drop theory....

QUOTE(auralpoison @ May 11 2010, 01:06 PM) *
Being that America is still a white majority nation (and one of the few that subscribed to the "one drop" theory), it doesn't really matter to the populace that Obama's mother was white. His father was black, Obama looks black, therefore he is black.


So, when you use this quote...

“…and it is usually a discovery, for I ceased to advertise my mother’s race at the age of twelve or thirteen, when I began to suspect that by doing so I was ingratiating myself to whites)”


...it is my understanding that Pres. Obama understood the context by which he was/is being viewed, judged, by others, most importantly, in the United States. There is alot to discuss with the complexities with the above quote for blacks/African Americans in this country. I think you are taking an issue of being bicultural and biracial as a one dimensional topic (i.e. feminism) in how one identifies him/herself. My view of feminism is not buying into a white patriarchal view of people (for instance, one major race). Unfortunately, society and culture forces people to make a choice to pick a side and be careful for the side you pick or else someone will point out how you made a wrong choice and do not fit in.

I think you are forcing an issue using quotes out of context. If you can connect these quotes in the context of a discussion of his mother, then I will concede to your argument. If these quotes are taken out of context of how Pres. Obama relates to his own experience of growing up in this country, then you cannot argue with one's phenomenological experience of being a man of color in this country.

anarch
QUOTE(bob4both @ May 11 2010, 03:59 AM) *
Is anyone offended that Obama never takes credit for the race of his mother, who is white? I mean, all he ever claims is being black, the heritage of his father, and completely dismisses that of his mother who had significantly more involvement in his upbringing than did his dad. It's as if mothers (women) dont matter in the politics of the world...and I don't ever hear ANYONE calling him on this.


I had the same reaction as Star, that those quotes were divorced from the context of Obama talking about the process of coming to grips with the complexities of identity in a society that prefers to pigeonhole people into simplistic boxes. Also, my overriding impression from his books and speeches was that he talked about his mother plenty, and positively credits her parenting with having everything to do with the person he turned into.

It's interesting that you posted this in Feminist Outrage. I'm not sure what you mean by "takes credit for the race of his mother" -- do you mean, you'd have expected feminists to be offended that he fails to point out that his mother was white and that therefore, her genetic whiteness, or white perspective, or white intellectual tradition, or white something else, should share some credit or are partly responsible for what he has accomplished? Or what?

Is your thinking along the lines of, "How can he disown his mother's race by checking "black" on the census"? (Credit to Yahoo! Answers for this question.)

What white racial perspective do you think he should credit? (ie, what do you consider to be the characteristics or defining features of his mother's "white racial perspective"?) And, "credit" for...what, exactly? Certain positive attributes that Obama possesses? Certain of Obama's achievements?

Those questions are absolutely sincere, and not hostile in the least. I would genuinely like to know your answers. I agree with ketto that if you want to continue this, it's probably better to go to the white privilege thread.
bob4both
I guess I didn't do a very good job of explaining my point. I put this in the feminist thread because I felt that by identifying as a black man only (and I have never heard him call himself bi-racial or white, though he is just as white as he is black, genetically speaking) that he was dissing his mom (not whites) and thought it might be deemed offensive by feminists (heck, I'm a guy & I thought it dismissive). I'm sure he loves his mom and that he is grateful for her support over his lifetime, but some of those quotes and what I hear from him presently does not (in my opinion) include his mom as I felt appropriate.

Thanx for the feedback, all. Obviously I'm just sensitive. And thanx for the suggestion, but I don't think I want to continue this in the "white privilege" thread; that's not where I intended this conversation to go. So I'll just assume the answer to my original question is...no.
angie_21
I know this conversation is somewhat over but I feel compelled to comment, having just finished teaching an anthropology course on race & racism...

AP and star have pretty much said it already. Anyone with a little bit of black heritage in America automatically becomes black in the eyes of other Americans. No matter what Obama's mother looked like, no matter if it had been his father that was white and his mother black instead, Obama would have been treated as "black" the second he walked out the door of his home. Teachers, schoolmates, workmates, would all have seen him as black based solely on the colour of his skin and the texture of his hair, not on any explanations of where his parents came from and what their DNA looked like or even what their skin looked like. And he would have grown up being part of both worlds but with everyone seeing him as belonging to only one. The fact that he is willing to discuss it frankly, as in the quotes you gave, shows courage, openess, and maturity. He even stated that the reason for continuing to identify himself as black was because of the state of race relations in America and that it had nothing to do with his mother!

Also, I believe that the overemphasis of Obama' black-ness had a lot more to do with the media than Obama's own focus. He never needed to "play the race card," because the media threw it out there immediately. And despite what republicans might say, given the long history of white presidents in the USA, I really fail to see how "playing the race card" could ever provide someone much of a benefit in an election campaign. Look how well Hillary and Sarah Palin did with the "gender card." (if there even is such a thing). If Obama had been a young white man speaking the same rhetoric and appealing to the young and disadvantaged in the same way, no one would even have bothered to worry about election day because he would have won 10 to 1 against McCain and Palin.
anarch
bob4both,

Maybe you already realize this but I'm going to spell it out just to make sure. When the assertion

QUOTE(bob4both @ May 12 2010, 03:32 AM) *
Look; I'm not trying to start a race thing here;

is bracketed by statements such as

never takes credit for the race of his mother, who is white
and
Obama gives [no] credit to his mother's racial perspective,

your own words highlighted race as "thing."

I felt that by identifying as a black man only (and I have never heard him call himself bi-racial or white, though he is just as white as he is black, genetically speaking) that he was dissing his mom (not whites)

OK, thanks for the clarification. Concepts and histories of "blackness" are complicated. Social concepts of "race" are arbitrary. At the same time, they can be powerful enough to make the accumulated lifetime experiences of people of different skin tones so different that a lot of self-identified "white" people flatly contradict and deny what darker-skin-toned people tell them about the continued existence of racism.

I'm getting the impression that you haven't made a point of reading about any of the above (race, racism, black history or experience), or listening in on conversations between people who have lived it every day of their lives (racialicious is good for this). Because if you had, you'd have context for understanding what entirely valid, non-mother-insulting reasons there might be for someone like him to emphasize "black." If you look into it more, you may get a better understanding of why our answer to your question is "No," and why there's a huge gulf between your interpretation of those Obama quotes, and ours.
stargazer
Uh, did anyone see this? blink.gif
auralpoison
Wow, Star. That is just . . . wow. blink.gif

I would like to thank Ketto, Star, Angie21, & especially Anarch for articulating the points that they did so well. I have personally been wrestling with a reply for the past few days & really didn't feel I could do it without being defensive because no matter how many times it was said that it wasn't a race issue, to me it was framed as such whether that was Bob's intent or not.

I come from the same type of mixed background as Pres. Obama & it isn't easy reconciling with the fact that you have a foot in two VERY different worlds as a youth (the majority of the quotes selected were about Obama's adolescent reconciling). I know how it feels to wonder how I am supposed to fit in with a mixed racial identity. I know how it feels to wonder why Santa is *always* white. I know how it feels to have a white person basically pat me on the head & praise me in a surprised voice because I'm "so articulate!" I know what it feels like to go through all the bullshit & eventually decide that I'm never going to be white enough or black enough to satisfy anybody, so fuck 'em all. Thankfully, I've never had political aspirations! biggrin.gif

QUOTE(bob4both @ May 12 2010, 06:32 AM) *
And because I don't think he's living up to the promises made (or inferred) on issues that matter to ME doesn't mean I think McCain would "have done a better job". Never considered it, never mentioned it, never inferred it, never BELIEVED it. Yup, all politicians are full of shit...but we had a promise for an audicity to hope.


Bob, I'd appreciate it if you didn't act like I put words in your mouth because I didn't.

My point was that Obama doesn't just have a full plate, he has a full *table* & he's little more than two years in in what is a VERY difficult presidency. His term isn't even over & the people that voted for him are now bitching & moaning because things aren't going fast enough for their tastes. It seems like a LOT of naïvete on the part of the voting populace because our government is a fucking JUGGERNAUT of complicated bureacracy & everything takes TIME. He cannot just wave a wand & make it so. And sadly, as political history has shown us in the past few years (Because really, Clinton is the first candidate to make any kind of promises to the community. Reagan, Bush Sr. & everybody before them largely pretended the community didn't exist.), somehow LGBTQ issues are basically ignored or used to distract. At least Obama stepped up to the hospital issue, that's more than anybody else has done.

Also, my mention of McCain was in no way an implication of your advocating him. It was more about the fact that I'd rather maintain the "promise for an audicity to hope" that Obama is slowly dragging forward a step than the out & out two steps back that would likely have happened under four more years of bible-thumping conservatism.

And basic human rights? Should matter to EVERYBODY.
anarch
Thanks, Star, that filled my weird quota for the week. The idea of claiming "Executive Spouse" as a title or quasi-official position, hmm.


QUOTE(auralpoison @ May 15 2010, 09:30 PM) *
no matter how many times it was said that it wasn't a race issue, to me it was framed as such whether that was Bob's intent or not.


As a result, I think, of Obama's prominence, I'm encountering more incidences of white Americans who seem to be considering race in a far more sustained way than ever before (not trying to imply this of you in particular, bob, I'm just recalling conversations from the past two years). A lot of them do it by switching the races, like "What if Obama said this about black people instead of white people?" (the racist grandmother observation in his race speech) and they work themselves up over it because, IF all things were equal, then sure, what's problematic for the goose would be problematic for the gander too. Of course, they completely miss the fact that all things are not equal. Most things are still vastly unequal. They don't know this because they're more comfortable thinking they already know everything they need to know about race from personal experience and what they read in mainstream media.

I wouldn't say there's a strong parallel between those obnoxious people and bob, because, bob, you've stated and restated your case carefully and non-aggressively. Thank you. I just bring it up because of the strong commonality, to my mind, of layers upon layers of not-knowing. Not just about the one-drop rule. Not-knowing about what a ginormous, paradigm-shifting, potentially judgment-neutralizing difference it makes to have some familiarity with the lived experience of people from the different demographic under discussion. Not-knowing about how familiarity with historical context (and present-day experiences of the people who are being judged) can make the difference between reading something as probably bigoted (or anti-feminist, or whatever) vs probably innocuous. Not-knowing about how whiteness taken for granted as the default, the "normal," the objective, can distort perceptions. Being so committed to the idea that this knowledge is irrelevant or inconsequential or uninteresting, that they'd be more likely to do their taxes before they'd spend a couple hours reading or listening about it. (well I wouldn't include you in that last one, bob, because I don't have enough information yet.)

So anyway, in short, bob's insistence that it wasn't a race issue and his surprise that it went in that direction, I thought it might have something to do with layers of not-knowing.
bob4both
QUOTE(anarch @ May 17 2010, 02:44 AM) *
So anyway, in short, bob's insistence that it wasn't a race issue and his surprise that it went in that direction, I thought it might have something to do with layers of not-knowing.


Moved conversation to "white privilege" thread.
auralpoison
This is just pure bullshit. Bullshit. Again I say, BASIC HUMAN RIGHTS! I do not understand this arbitrary nonsense. Woman has to pay back $80,000 in schoalrship monies because she came OUT. Seriously. WTF is wrong with this fucking country?

This could be the week for the repeal of DADT . . . or not.
anarch
from feministing, How Do You Say "Jackass" in Body Language

Some of the comments are pretty funny.

What a bloviating ass.
deschatsrouge
I found that list to be inaccurate. It doesn't include enough about hostility. When a guy is being a jackass I generally use my fist on his jaw or in his eye to indicate my hostility. If he still can't read my body language, I will then ram my knee into his groin.
auralpoison
Okay. This guy is fucking hysterical. I mean watch this & try not to laugh: The Post-feminist Man.
auralpoison
I am so livid I can barely think straight. FGM at Cornell University.
enfermera
QUOTE(auralpoison @ Jun 17 2010, 11:37 PM) *
I am so livid I can barely think straight. FGM at Cornell University.



I saw this yesterday as well. I think I'm still trying to wrap my brain around it....it sounds SO bizarre. How does one even determine that an infant's clit is "too big?" Babies often have disproportionately large genitals; how the hell do they know how things'll even out? And who the hell determines what is a "normal" size? And who the hell CARES if they're bigger than average: aren't people frequently complaining about how hard they are to find???

And the follow-up assessments.... *shudder* The whole thing sounds so ghoulish. I repeat what many people are already saying: HOW did this pass an ethics review?

Fucker ought to be put out of practice, and castrated to boot.
Persiflager
Website by a so-called 'Nice Guy' which is a perfect example of why those words are such a red flag.

God AP, that story is horrifying! And, I suspect, not unique.
enfermera
if online dating has taught me anything, it's that pretty much any man labeling himself as a "nice guy" is to be avoided at All Costs. they seem to be the least "nice" people you could hope to meet.
auralpoison
"Nice guy" is basically shorthand for manipulative, entitled asshole. Their being "nice" is really being self-serving & building up a debt they expect to be repaid. Beware the "nice guy"!

And now for some positivity: How fruit trees save girls' lives in India.
coffeebean
Yes enfermera, I agree. Look out for the 'nice guys' online. When I was doing the online thing I found that 'nice guys' could put on a pretty good front and were pretty well liked amongst acquaintances but then once you tried to get a little close, look out!

okay, now like AP said - onto positivity!
auralpoison
I keep forgetting to post this, have any of you played Hey Baby! yet?
stargazer
AP, part of me is really turned off by that game. On the other hand, there is a part of me that thinks it is cool. Though, I know an eye for an eye mentality will not help resolve the issue of sexual harassment/abuse that women deal with.

And thanks for the tips about the "nice guy" as I enter the foray of online dating....
auralpoison
QUOTE(auralpoison @ Jun 18 2010, 05:08 PM) *
I keep forgetting to post this, have any of you played Hey Baby! yet?


I should have included this & linked to it first: One man's perspective on Hey Baby! I really think the guy hits it on the head for me, he has an excellent perspective on the game & what it means. I think it's an interesting learning tool for men, maybe it'll give them some insight on what it's like to walk out of the house every day being subjected to the male gaze & all the bullshit that goes with it.
stargazer
Thanks for the link, AP.
culturehandy
I think I'm going to get sick.
koffeewitch
I don't know who is more fucked up...the doctor who wants to perform this surgery on patients too young to even understand the full significance of it...or the parents dragging their little girls into his office for permanent psychological (and physical) scars. This is one of these atrocities in which all you can do is shake your head in horror and disgust. Please tell me these poor kids will end up suing the living bejesus out of this freak when they are older (NOT that that solves or really helps anything).
ketto
Ugh, I read about that earlier. It's sexual abuse and physical mutilation, I don't care if it is a "nick". It's disgusting that he's been allowed to do this.
auralpoison
Oh, no, they can't possibly be rapists, they have red dots behind their ears.
stargazer
Wha? blink.gif Seriously, that shit is crazy.
auralpoison
Isn't it, though? Seriously. Red dots that disappear after sex.

And I forgot to post this: Dr. Maria New can possibly prevent your girl fetus from being a lesbian.
pepper
Oh for fuck's sake, the world is conspiring to piss me off today.
http://ca.lifestyle.yahoo.com/fashion-beau..._you_in_trouble


I read that lesbian baby nonsense earlier, what the fuck. Someone made a great point about the godhumper's stance that homosexuality is a choice but if that's so how then is it possible that sexuality is determined in utero and can be affected with drugs?
What the hell kind of asshole takes drugs like that when they're pregnant anyhow? I was afraid to take a frikken tylenol even though doctors claim it's ok. Sure as heck not going to gobble up some untested freakshow pills, what moron mother-to-be would? Then again, what new parent takes their precious, perfect little baby daughter in for gential mutilation? ARG!

No, I'm just too angry, I gotta stop reading this shit before I burst something.
auralpoison
Aquitted woman faces death by stoning.

Y'know what? I'd like to know where all the rational Muslims are. And more, I'd like to know why they don't go to bat more for their oppressed own. A LOT of Christians world wide at least acknowledge that the Westboro Baptist people suck & are not representatives of what good Xtians should be. Why isn't more being done for these victims of ridiculous/warped Sharia law?

I know I'm being simplistic here, but sheesh. C'mon, people.
auralpoison
Ordaining women now as grave a crime as molesting children. Once again, way to go, Vatican!

Saudi group "Prophet of Four" is trying to encourage polygamy to keep nation free of "spinsters".

And just to add one more bitch, WTF is up with everybody being all up in arms over Mel Gibson being racist, but nobody is mentioning much about his misogyny? Why isn't the media freaking out more about Mr. Sexiest Man Alive threatening to bury this woman in the rose garden or to burn the house down with her inside?
pollystyrene
I assume you mean they're more up in arms about him dropping the n-bomb within the abusive rant, than they are about the overall content and intent of the abusive rant? Yeah, I don't get it either. We were talking about the whole thing at a family party this week and Mr. Styrene's (ha, he's "Mr. Styrene" now!) mom was insisting that he must be mentally ill to be acting like this, and I'm thinking, "he may be mentally ill, but there's a heavy, heavy dose of just straight-up asshole in there, too." And I've heard other people theorize that he's mentally ill. I guess after the incident with the cop a few years ago, Mel came out and said he had been diagnosed with bi-polar disorder, so maybe that's why people keep thinking this is solely the result of him being mentally ill. But something else I saw had a psychologist analyzing the recording and said that his speech patterns were not of someone in a manic state- he's too calm and collected for that. Nope, just an asshole.
auralpoison
Exactly. Perhaps I'm jaded by having been called a nigger often enough or I've heard the locals use much nastier terms than wetback to describe our undocumented neighbors from the south, but I find the physical assault, death threats, & threatened sexual violence far more disturbing than a few racial slurs. I mean, we all knew Mel was a consummate hater of the Jews & that he had little regard for women in positions of authority, but slapping around the mother of your child while she's holding the child & making repeated threats against her life? Pure dickery.

And I find the "mental illness" thing to be a cop out; I don't believe he's bi-polar at all. A drunken, racist, anti-semetic misogynist? Oh hells yes. But mentally ill, no. Mel is an actor & a pretty damn good one when he wants to be, so I think he's just been faking us out in all of his media appearances over the years.
pants
I have read, and i forget where, maybe on Jezebel that the response of a psychologist (who does not treat Mel Gibson but does specialize in dealing with people who are bi-polar) was that Gibson's rant was not typical of a person who is bi-polar. That it was clear he was choosing his word carefully and not at resembling the state of a person in a bi-polar manic phase (I know I'm using the wrong words here, but hopefully you are getting the gist). ANYHOW I say all this to say that based on the views of a psychiatric professional who does not treat the man, I calll bullshit on the bi-polar excuse. To blame his hateful mysogny, dickeshness, and racism on a mental ilness does a disservice to those who are actually coping with a legitimate illness.

He's a spoiled baby who treats those with less power them him as if they were less than human. He deserves to be shunned. And it says a lot about society that people aren't half as concerned about the way he's spoken to her and what he threatened to do to her as they are about the racist language he used. Both are reprehensible. Both prove that he's a fuckwipe.

I wonder how much the fact that she is a much younger woman, a much younger Russian woman even is playing into this? Did she get what she deserved for grasping after an older married man? Is that why people don't seem so fussed about the violence?

Please not that I do not at all believe that she got what she deserved, just wondering aloud if that's what others might be thinking.
auralpoison
Constance to receive $35K over prom flap.

I bet those assholes are just kicking themselves while Constance & the rest of the sane people of the world laugh at their costly mistake. I hope they're enjoying the $35K stink they raised.

auralpoison
Does anybody besides me find the smirk on this "gentleman's" face disturbing? Seriously. Dude got arrested because he took the time to shoot his sauce into a spray bottle so he could publicly spray it on unsuspecting women. What. The. Fuck?! And his face just says, "Heh heh, yup. I did it. And I'm gonna do it again!"

There is something I find really super icky about the whole surreptitious sex perv thing. The peeping toms, the upskirt camera guys, the mystery ejaculators, the sleep creeps. Is it the illicit nature of doing something creepy undetected that is the turn on or is it the woman's vulnerability to their sneaky libidos? Not getting caught vs. F/M power game. Or is it both?

I was reading earlier in the week about a flap in Boston where a man photographed the accidentally exposed cleavage of a woman on the Green Line trolley. She in turn took his photo & took it to the police as she said she saw him taking upskirt pics of another woman on the T. I know the flap is about the "grey area" of taking a photo of the woman's cleavage without her consent (I do not want to victim blame, I know that a person's body is their property & not the property of the world at large, but c'mon. I know if the shirt I am wearing is going to expose more boobie than I'd like if I bend over. Back when I used to hustle pool, I admit I used my tetas as an advatage to unhinge male opponents.), but I have to ask: If she saw him taking upskirts of another woman, WHY DIDN'T SHE SAY SOMETHING WHEN IT WAS GOING ON? Maybe I'm just a loudmouth, but if I'd have seen that I'd have raised an unholy stink about it & made sure the other woman, nay, the ENTIRE trolley knew what the perv was doing. I'd have made sure that everybody got a pic of him & I'd have sat on him if I had to restrain him to wait for the transit cops. Ya'll would have seen my ass on Youtube had this happened to me!

Also, what the TSA said couldn't happen is of course, happening: Airport Body Scans Being Saved. Now, I know my rights. The one time that I got pulled aside for further screening at DIA after the installation of the body scanner they tried to get me to do it by saying it would be the quickest way out of security. I had plenty of time to catch my flight & requested the pat down. I was even completely willing to allow a male TSA officer to do it because I was gonna be damned if some asshole in some room forty yards away from me was gonna save a pic of my fat ass to some file somewhere. It's a violation of privacy & I didn't care how many times they said they couldn't be saved or duplicated or whatever. People suck & if they can find a way to do something inappropriate they fucking will!
auralpoison
Teacher, principal try to conduct their own sting operation after girl confides in teacher about a rape. Girl? Used as bait gets raped AGAIN. The principal didn't care if it was rape/consensual, he just wanted to bust kids having unauthorized fucktimes at school.
sybarite
That power-grabbing oblivious asshole of a principal should be sacked. It's abundantly clear that student welfare isn't one of his concerns. I hope he gets canned and that this goes on his 'permanent record' so he can't get a job anywhere else.
anarch
Love your links, aural. Thank you.

Toddler beaten to death for "acting like a girl"

and, of course there's at least one comment about how this was an act of an individual psycho and gender roles ain't got nothin' to do with it.
auralpoison
How does a 17 month old child behave in an effeminate way? HOW?! When you are that age all you do is sleep, eat, shit, cry, & kid stuff like sticking everything in your mouth & making messes.

And that twenty year old punk kid lamenting that he'd "never hit the kid that hard before" & "that it was a one time mistake" he's now gonna do twenty years for. HELLO! You deserve that & more! You killed an innocent child to preserve some crazy 'que es mas macho' shit in your head, dude!

Without the violence, it reminded me of the "Single Ladies" boy. A three year old doesn't *understand* the weird gender norms of a society: He just wants to be a single lady, put a ring on it!

I do like that the dad immediately realized his error & encouraged his son to go ahead & get his groove on instead of decrying it being girlie. I don't like that he was driving & videoing at the same time, however. Safety first!

I can say that a lot of the antiquated gender stuff my dad put in my head effects me to this day even though I figured out early on he was totally full of shit. His weird gender issues even stemmed to animals! My male dog was a kisser & after I moved out, he sought affection where he could get it. The first couple months my dad would push him away mumbling about "boys not kissing boys" until my mom finally snapped that it was a goddamn dog & that he needed to get a grip because the dog was NOT making a pass at him. LOL!
koffeewitch
Am I allowed to beat on 20 year old "men" who behave like toddlers? Let's get to the real root of some of society's behavior problems, here. There are way too many grown folks having ego-driven, screaming, maniacal temper tantrums. The older I get, the less patience I have for any of it. Twenty years is nowhere near enough time for this scummy sack of shit to spend in the joint. Boo hoo. Poor HIM. He only made "one mistake"???

Unfortunately this reminded me of the time I walked into a public restroom to overhear a women screaming at her child to stop acting like such "a goddamn crybaby". She was screaming with real anger and frustration in her voice at what I assumed would be a 5 or 6 year old child (which would have been bad enough)...but then I saw she was screaming at a BABY-baby. Maybe 6 or 8 months old. And she was verbally just RIPPING into this kid. It's heartbreaking. I could make a dark, sarcastic witticism, but it's just heartbreaking. mellow.gif
girltrouble
omg, aural. the dog story was too f'ing funny. i wish i had something to add, but i can only agree.
auralpoison
I loved my old man, but, yeah, he was sometimes a pretty fucked up guy, GT. Some of the issues he gave me still linger, but I do try HARD to work around them!

I have a BUNCH of feminist outrage to post, but this one has me so spitting mad that I'ma have to wait a few days.

If you are at all sensitive or prone to triggers, DO NOT READ. THIS IS SOME SICK FUCKING SHIT! Insane Sicko (And FRIENDS!) Commit Atrocity After Atrocity On Challenged Victim For SEVEN Years. There is a special place in hell for these sons of bitches.

sybarite
That is really horrifying AP--I had to skip some parts.

While I am glad to hear the men involved are facing life in prison, the charges listed are mainly logistical: use of a facility, conspiracy, interstate transport? How are these equally as important to charge as sustained torture??
koffeewitch
The list of charges were mainly conspiracy, fraud and sex trafficking? There are no kidnapping/torture/attempted man slaughter, rape, etc. etc. charges for something like this?

This reminded me of the MRDD group homes I've worked in...seen so many people with horrible disfigurements due to sexual abuse and torture. They are rarely ever caught/prosecuted. I wish the courts were setting more of a precedent.

Is it awful of me to wish that those perps spend the rest of their lives tortured and raped in the joint?
treehugger
OMFG! mad.gif
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