Help - Search - Members - Calendar
Full Version: What the F@%&?! And more feminist outrage...
The BUST Lounge > Forums > The F-Word
Pages: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33
erinjane
I didn't think it was that bad either until I saw the photos. Both of them are extremely creepy and definatly sexualized. They just make me feel so uncomfortable and wrong.
ginger_kitty
Wow, that's really wrong. I didn't mind the first two pics, but the topless one? Who would objectify thier child like that, with so many child predators roaming around. sad.gif

The string bikini thing was odd, too. They just didn't look like little girl's suits.
xexyz
I'm pretty much against child modeling/beauty pagentry of all forms, but to be honest the types of pictures where the girls are all dolled up with makeup, earings, and the rest to make them look adult as possible creep me out more than the ones being discussed here.
maddy29
yeah, those are so scary, too. the jon benet look-scary-all that makeup, it just looks so odd on such a tiny little person. it's sad to me to see all the ways we sexualize little ones so early on. sad.gif
thepointybird
QUOTE(maddy29 @ Sep 21 2006, 07:57 PM) *

yeah, those are so scary, too. the jon benet look-scary-all that makeup, it just looks so odd on such a tiny little person. it's sad to me to see all the ways we sexualize little ones so early on. sad.gif


And the really scary thing is that when I linked to it, the ad at the top of the site is all about how to keep your children safe from predatory internet paedophiles. I'd have thought having 5 year olds look like Victoria's Secret models is positively encouraging paedophiles.....
maddy29
yeah, that's what angers me so much. there is this huge fear of child molesters and stuff, and kids being exposed to adult sexuality, yet, we are the ones doing it-exposing them, etc. (i mean, not we as in busties, we as in people).

why don't people make that connection? we truly are encouraging pedophiles, because we're sending the message that it's ok to see little girls as sex objects. and if it's ok to see them as sexy, then it's not that far of a reach to then want to have sex with them...



prettynpink
I cant believe what happened to her and the leniency of the sentence. I'm so angry for this woman...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/norther...and/5371760.stm

pepper
actually, i think this is kind of interesting. don't know if i agree with the tactics but so very interesting none the less...

http://www.tcsdaily.com/article.aspx?id=092006C
zora
My dad is constantly trying to get me to watch "house." Never mind that I work when it airs, but oh well.
I don't think I want to watch it after reading this article: http://www.isna.org/node/1008

Is this the way the show is? If so, I'm never going to watch it and shame on the writers and actors for putting this crap together.
bunnyb
zora, I don't have much time to respond fully but no, that's not what the way the show is. The articles is OTT and, as far as I remember, not factual (I don't recall him calling the father "homo") but the episode is also very over the top. Gregory House is an offensive character, he's written that way, he is un PC and downright obnoxious but that's why everyone loves him. The episode was not sensitively handled but I think it does raise awareness.
thingsarenice
I think he does call the father a "homo", but if you watch the show, House treats everyone like that; he's constantly commenting about his boss's breasts, making racist comments about the black member of his staff and his car-thief past, telling patients that their spouse must be cheating on them/getting ready to leave them/dressing up in their clothing with little to no evidence. He's a dick and if he had treated this patient with any sensitivity whatsoever, it would have been completely out of character.
So, to wrap up: House isn't anti-intersexed people, House is just anti everyone.
bunnyb
yup, he's a misanthropist.
treehugger
I actually love the show. And I'm pretty darned politically correct and anti-discrimination and anti-hatred. If House actually narrowed his dislike to one group, I'd be offended.

But they're right, Gregory dislikes EVERYBODY. His character is an antisocial one. Plain and simple. Which makes the show more interesting to me, but, also easy to misconstrue single episodes if you don't know the character. I look forward to the show every week.
anoushh
I am very, very saddened--though not terribly surprised--by the murder in Afghanistan of Safia Ama Jan. I swear, I remember reading in Ms. when I was about 14 how the US was funding the Mujahadeen in Afghanistan b/c they were "anti-Soviet" and ignoring things like they were entirely anti-western society too, to the point of violence, and that one of their big objections to the Soviets was that they were educating girls. Of course no one wants their country to be invaded, but it was the advancement of women that really got them going.

I was 14 and I knew then that this was going to come back and bite us--not to mention what it would do to that country. Of course, who were the precursers of the the Taliban? That's right--the mujahadeen, who we then called "freedom fighters."

Disgusting. What a brave, brave, woman. What a horrendous loss.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/international/st...1880868,00.html

Incidentally, I agree with most of what people have said about House, but I think they've really got it wrong on this one. It's not like there isn't enough misunderstanding, predjudice, and bias on this subject already. He's got everyone else to be mean to--this doesn't work for me.

I don't expect him to be Mr. Sensitivity, but nope, this just seems ignorant and hateful.
bunnyb
I'm conflicted about the episode, when I read zora's post I knew which ep it would be referring to so obviously something disturbed me about it, a lot did though. I think I'll need to hunt out the dvd and re-watch the ep but I think they were trying to do something really complicated with the ep that ended up not working about teen models and the irony of beauty. The episode title is "Skin Deep" after all, it's addressing the inherent prejudices within that business and of society regarding beauty, is the punch-line not that this stunningly beautiful girl that every man (including her father and House) is lusting after is in fact a boy, that lust and skin deep beauty are fickle?
zora
I don't know, I don't think I can get behind the whole, "Well, I dislike everyone, so that's okay" thing on TV. There's too much hate and anger in the world and shows that perpetuate that get on my nerves. I like TV shows that make me relax and feel good.
BUT, I've never seen House before so I might have my head up my ass on this one.
runningwestward
OK a little off the topic of House (my two cents: I like the show but don't like him... I don't think you are supposed to like him. I think that's what they are going for. You'll tune in to see what he'll do or say so you can get all riled up about it. Still... I like the show). Now what was I saying... right! Freakonomics. I started reading it. Heard good things. I got to page 34 and I am mad at the book or more specifically the authors, and here's why: They start discussing the No Child Left Behind programme. Talking about cheating teachers and he (two male authors) keeps referring to she and her never him or he or they or them.... ok so you get this impression that it's only women who are doing this (cheating and being bad teachers) But in one single sentance he says that it is equally likely that the teacher is either male or female and goes right back to referring to the cheating teacher as female. Don't know if I want to read the book anymore. That revelation turned me off.
chani
That book is full of facts spun into fiction. He does this whole rant about how there is no evidence that car seats for infants are any safer than no car seats. But he does admit that seatbelts are safer than no seatbelts. So how are you going to put a newborn in a seatbelt? You have to buckle them into a carseat, numbnuts!!!!!
venetia
re:House - those of you who like it, how do you figure that his hating EVERYONE somehow means to you that he is NOT hating, say, intersexed people???

I genuinely don't see the logic. Many bigots I've met hate on more than one group but it doesn't make their victims feel all warm and fuzzy about being a target of hatred or attacks merely because their abuser is being so inclusive. I don't see how it makes it okay. I mean, if you hate blacks as well as jews suddenly the jews aren't suposed to take it personally??

I think if you're going to attack people from a dominant position in society then the fact you attack a range of targets adds to your power, rather than lessening the impact of any one attack.
thereshegoes
what's the difference between this show (i've never seen it) and "south park," which insults jews, african-americans, women and gay people throughout each episode, and yet is generally beloved by leftie types as free speech in action? i admit, i've laughed my ass off at the jokes made at other groups expense-until they go after jews and women, then it's not so damn funny. i do agree with venetia---the fact that people hate ALL groups doesn't make their hate at my expense more enjoyable.
katiebelle2882
i find it a little weird when a particular show so clearly based in satire gets people all freaked out and offended. i am catholic and i dont care if they make fun of catholics. have a sense of humor for the love of god! i mean, i find it even worse when you laugh at certain jokes but cant laugh at yourself when your ethnic group/gender is made fun of. its not hate, its humor, and i think half the reason feminists get such a horrible reputation for having no sense of humor is exactly for these reasons.

also, if you take such offense to certain things, part of me thinks its you realizing something is true about your particular group, and getting defensive about it. yeah, catholic priests molested children, its true, so ill laugh at jokes about it bc its a horrible thing that the catholic church SHOULD get shit for.

if something is clearly not malicious, then i dont think its all that big a deal, if you dont ave humor in this world to deal with the insanity, what do we have?
Onna-Otaku
Well said, Katie, I completly agree with you. Kudos. laugh.gif
anoushh
A lot of people use the excuse "It's just a joke" to hide from taking responsibility for some pretty ugly shit.

So that is a potentially troublesome argument for me.

Venetia, I completely agree with you.
erinjane
I'm actually on the fence on this one. It's a slippery slope for sure. I've never seen house, so I can't comment on that one, but I do watch South Park from time to time, and I laugh at it. But sometimes I definatly find myself thinking they cross the line. I dont think I have a clear cut opinion either way.
thereshegoes
i generally can laugh it off, but i saw the "paris hilton is a big fat whore" one last week and it rubbed me really wrong---i mean, she sucks, but why is "whore" the label? i guess that's why i derailed the thread. i HATE when people attack women by calling them whores.
pepper
oh, house is ok, south park is ok, baby shaped pinatas are ok, we should all just lighten up.

sorry, just couldn't help myself.


eta *sarcasm*
thereshegoes
sorry, but i don't really think feminism is something to "have a sense of humor" or "lighten up" about. i mean, sure, you can have a sense of humor and still be a feminist, but when so many issues per feminism and anti-feminism still do serious damage, maybe feminist issues aren't funny.

Sexual and physical partner abuse isn't funny
Sexual harrassment on the job isn't funny
Not receiving equal pay as male coworkers for equal work isn't funny
Scary street harassment isn't funny

And all of these things are still with us
Maybe feminists need to have LESS of a sense of humor. which i suppose would be outrage.
maddy29
i think this is a really important topic and i'm glad it's being discussed.

i too, am confused. i think some things should just never be joked about- like slavery, the holocaust, domestic violence, stuff like that.

but yeah, some tv shows you arne't supposed to like the character. it's not holding up bigotry as some kind of standard.

south park is a toughie-i've laughed really hard at it, and i've turned it off in disgust many a time.

this makes no sense to me "catholic priests molested children, its true, so ill laugh at jokes about it bc its a horrible thing that the catholic church SHOULD get shit for." Um, what? It's a horrible thing so you'll laugh at it, and by your laughter, somehow the Catholic Church is getting shit for it? How is you laughing at priests molesting children doing anything positive?

also i have a problem with stereotypes in general-just because SOME catholic priests were found out to have abused kids, doesn't mean they are all evil child predators. or that leaders of other churches don't do the exact same thing.
prettynpink
Quite frankly, I'm sick of Political Correctness. I LOVE House. He says what you're thinking but are too afraid to say. Thats why people hate him. Thats why he's controvercial.

He SAYS what he THINKS.

Imagine how unlikable a person would be in your life if they did that. This is just a tv character and people are up in arms.

You know what, yes, we should censor ourselves and we shouldnt tolerate bigotry. But if you watch the show, he isnt a bigot. He is just an ass. He's just rude. And it makes you think.
Its prompted this discussion.
It will prompt others.
I'm all for things that make people think.
lucizoe
you know, PnP, I agree

I'm tired of PC language too, to a point. I think it's good that there are alternatives to words and phrases that can be so incredibly offensive and upsetting to many, many people. I also think an examination of the reasons behind why such language has come into existence is necessary - is it a way of not confronting people's prejudices? Of glossing over what they're really thinking?

Some people just won't change their attitudes or acknowledge their privilege, so they just couch their bigotry in politeness. That seems almost worse to me. Instead of confronting the bad attitudes people hide them in public, letting them fester and even teaching their kids their stupid ideas...

And on the joke front, personally I'm aware that the world blows mad monkey balls. Sometimes I need to laugh. And if you, like me, giggle uncontrollably at dead baby jokes or South Park's "Trapped In The Closet", or at the absurdity of a television character who hates everyone, I think that's okay. Big Gay Al? Hello?? He's awesome and the episode about him was all about mocking the stupid idea that gay men are all child molestors, and bashing the Boy Scouts (government-funded discriminatory religious organization). And I can support that.
maddy29
i don't like false pc-ness either, when it's just hiding the hatred. but i'm also tired of hearing certain words, like cunt, pussy, fag, etc. and i don't think it makes me part of the pc police to ask people to stop using those words, at least in a negative context.

i know what y'all are saying about gallows humor...

butttttt, as anoush said "A lot of people use the excuse "It's just a joke" to hide from taking responsibility for some pretty ugly shit."


prettynpink
you know, I've stopped thinking of cunt as a bad word ever since I read the book.

Its amazing to take the power out of a word. thats all they are. Words. Letters and sounds strung together. Political Correctness just enforces the power of "offensive" words.

maddy29
well, i don't think of cunt or pussy as a bad word, but even on this board they are used as insults against women.

so should we start using the word nigger? because to not use it is just being pc.... and it's just a word after all, and we all know words don't actually MEAN anything!

i'm not getting this at all. pnp, you don't think there are any offensive words? cause i can think of a lot!

prettynpink
I do think that words can be offensive and I certainly think that words have power.
I think that nigger is a stupid word. I'm sick of the controversy around it. I'm sorry, but if a word is okay for ONE part of society to use, it should be okay for the rest of society to use.

I also think its absurd that someone has to resign from his position for using the word "niggardly" when its meaning and language roots are completely removed from the origins of nigger. I'm sick of this absurdity.

Ignorance perpetuates Polical Correctness. If you are ignorant you will jump to the wrong conclusions when someone uses a word like "niggardly" and demand false justice.


treehugger
I so wish I could Bust during the day because I'm coming into this conversation late. Regarding House. I'm one of the "house lovers".

I don't think House is really, honestly a bigot in himself. I think he's a self absorbed egotist. I also think he's brutally honest and will be honest to everybody he talks to. And I also think that he's got his patient's wellbeing in the forefront and if brutal honesty to the spouse or to whomever will force out the information he needs to properly diagnose the patient's illness, then so be it. An embarrassed or angry patient is better than a dead one.

I think House deliberately uses controversial language to make people sit up and listen or to take seriously what he's saying. If he's talking to a black person he will say "if you don't listen I will have to drop the "N-Bomb". It makes you perk up and listen.

That's the way I'm seeing the whole House character.

I don't really think he's a bigot.
thereshegoes
why dont feminists make a show that makes fun of anti-feminist bullshit? i would laugh at that show. i would netflix that show. i think margaret cho is a prime example of how it could work.

i think i would be able to lighten up and enjoy un-pc humor more if i saw my own values as the mocker (as opposed to the mocked) more often.
mandolyn
i don't watch "house", but i used to watch "all in the family", and still do when i can. i hold that as the one of the greatest tv shows of all time.

shows that feature "lovable bigots" aren't condoning the wrongness of society, they're holding it up for scrutiny. i see nothing wrong with doing it humorously. "rescue me" is my favorite show, and most of the lead characters are major bigots, racists & anti-feminists. to me, the writers deftly show the absurdity of being a hatah. same with "south park".

mel brooks makes fun of the jews (and everyone else), but he's not anti-semetic because he IS a jew?

then again, i think we all have comfortable levels of un-PC-ness depending on what's most dear to our hearts.


venetia
If there's nothing wrong with House expressing itself honestly then why is there something wrong with others expressing a dissenting opinion honestly? Laugh at domestic violence or be entertained by persecution of minorities all you like but by the same token it's my right to think badly of you for doing so, and it's also my right to support other forms of entertainment.

And don't call me "PC". Be a bit more honest. My opinions are as real to me as yours are to you. I don't like "PC" either but that's because it's a meaningless term.

When people dismiss others as PC, often it's like they are trying to say that actually we all think exactly as they do, and that there's some mysterious... I dunno, fashion accessory? random whim? power trip?... called "PC" that stops us from being exactly like them. Like anyone who isn't on your wavelength secretly is, but is too chickenshit to admit it. That whole thing about "He says what your thinking but are too afraid to say". Um, sorry I am not thinking that shit. Just because you may derive humour or entertainment from what intersexed people go through, in their lives, doesn't mean I do.

To me this is a lot like the argument that I once heard a male flatmate's male friend make along the lines of all men would enjoy raping women if they could and men who say otherwise are just - you guessed it - PC. Um, no dude, stop projecting your issues.

I'm sure it's much easier to pretend to yourself that everyone else in the world is secretly in exactly the same place as you yourself are - and then criticise them for "being PC" instead of criticising them for their real actions, opinions or beliefs, but it makes for a meaningless debate. It's just as bad as those people who try to be PC rather than thinking for themselves.

/rant

That said - I agree 100% with Mandolyn and others here about the function of social satire in these shows and that everyone has their own comfort level. (I myself regularly watch and enjoy several things that are controversial in this field, such as the nz cartoon Bro'Town - and at the same time I can see issues with it: eg a bigot doesn't have to be shown as a good guy for a show to inflict hurt or to exploit bigotry for nightly entertainment) I just get sooo frustrated when the trusty old "humourless PC" stick is pulled out to beat anyone with a different politics or comfort level to oneself.
anoushh
Venetia, I love you.
prettynpink
Just as an insert:

I wasnt referring to that episode in general. I acutally havent seen that episode.

I'm referring to every other show I've seen.


And I didnt say that there is anything wrong with NOT calling someone a cunt. I'm saying that the level of PC today is absurd, as per my example. There is a difference between just being PC to not get in 'trouble' and treating people with respect. I think that the controversy around the word "nigger" is absurd. That does not mean that I do not respect people's sensitivities to it. Of course I do.
To me, the level of Political Correctness today borders on disrespect for a person's intellect, however.

PC is POLITICAL. Not personal. I am not involved with politics, nor will I be, so I will continue to treat others with respect.
anoushh
There's an old feminist saying "the personal is political." I don't think you can make neat distinctions like that--that so easily seperate the two.
maddy29
venetia, much love smile.gif great post. i totally agree about the PC-humorless stick. i love laughing as much as anyone else, but come on. and yeah, generally i'm not thinking mean awfulthings about everyone....i don't think that's normal or good...
katiebelle2882
no maddy i meant more along the lines of i dont care if they get made fun of about that bc the church deserves it.
chachaheels
I think laughing at the church and its crimes isn't about laughing at the victims so much as it is taking a huge amount of undeserved, unquestioned power away from the church. And I agree with Mandolyn that bigots (and I'm including House in this category) are being held up and exposed for their hatred--they are being made into a spectacle of ridicule. Kinda like the church in those jokes.

The House character is played by an extremely attractive man who can be witty--so the characterization is somewhat manipulative, I think. We're interested in him, but he is a pathetic and despicably abusive individual, with an awful lot of power which is undeserved, and obviously acquired through some highly orchestrated bullying. Kinda like the church in those jokes.

Anyway, that manipulation heightens anoushh's conclusion about the personal being political--in one way--for me. No one is cut and dry, black and white simple: there is an element of humanity which draws us in about this character, even though he is inherently awful (I mean, the transgressions can be counted--and he does not, ever, "speak for me"; House is always speaking out of a weakness of character). I feel like we're being coerced into accepting his always transgressive behaviour because he's always shown to be "right", despite the fact that he feels like he has supreme power over the characters who are supposed to be in his care. How can you ignore the politics in that? It's a great idea to often refrain from saying what's on your mind out loud, just so we can live together in relative peace.

No one can choose not to be political. You're political whether you like it or not, whether you're aware of it or not, and the politics permeate every level of being alive, from the bedroom to the office to the cafe to the street to the TV set and the movie theatre. That's why that idea of the personal being political and vice versa has held for so long--it's so true.
thingsarenice
QUOTE
re:House - those of you who like it, how do you figure that his hating EVERYONE somehow means to you that he is NOT hating, say, intersexed people???


Venetia, I can't speak for anyone else, I was just trying to explain that his attitude towards the intersexed girl was not the fault of any prejudices the writers of the show might have but was rather just something the character does. The article you posted made it sound like this was the only offensive thing that was ever said by him on the show, but he says at least eight offensive things in every episode. It doesn't mean he wasn't hating on intersexed people, it just means that the show doesn't target intersexed people alone. Since you'd never seen the show and the article was pretty inflammatory I just wanted you to realize what it's about. And House's use of offensive language is more of a pissing-people-off thing than a bigotry thing. I doubt we'll see him at a Klan meeting in any future episodes, but he's going to keep calling his African American staff member a "spade" because he likes to piss people off.

Personally, I think if you can't laugh at something horrible portrayed in a humorous way, you'll go crazy. I mean, how often do people laugh at good things anyway? And I mean really laugh; I tend to giggle a little when I see a puppy chase it's tail or something, but that's my problem.
chachaheels
QUOTE
And House's use of offensive language is more of a pissing-people-off thing than a bigotry thing. I doubt we'll see him at a Klan meeting in any future episodes, but he's going to keep calling his African American staff member a "spade" because he likes to piss people off.


Just to make another example:
This staff member isn't really a colleague--he's a subordinate. That "staff member" answers to House. There is a political statement in a white man in a position of power calling one of his underlings, who happens to be African American, a "spade". It's covered up by an occasional witty remark, a handsome face, and a scenario where everyone tolerates the behaviour even though it's reprehensible...but to the spectator watching this show, what can we make of something like this other than it's an overtly racist act, not an expression of co-worker affection?

This is what I mean by feeling manipulated by this character and this show. It's not admirable behaviour, and I have a hard time differentiating it from what might take place at a Klan meeting, but we're always seeing House emerge heroically, and vindicated every episode anyway, like his being right makes it all okay.
venetia
Thingsarenice, I think you're getting me mixed up with another poster? I didn't post that article, Zora did. And yes we do get "House" here in New Zealand too, free to air, right on prime time on one of our two biggest channels - I've seen a fair bit of it one way or another. In fact when we first got it I hoped it might be cool because I liked Hugh Laurie from some of the British comedy he was in.

The question I was asking was in response to the responses to Zora's post.

(Totally off topic but I finally found out why we have so many big US cable shows, Fox etc on our free to air channels - for some reason nz gets foriegn drama sold to us very cheaply - at sometimes 1/100th of the cost that a larger country would be asked to pay for the same show!! Weird ae?)
xexyz
Wow, fuck the Dever School district for this kind of bullshit:

http://www.thedenverchannel.com/education/...513/detail.html
crazyoldcatlady
re: xexyz's link


sigh.

is there nothing sacred anymore?
at which point does the cultutre hit right rock bottom and start pulling itself up?
lilacwine13
That's rather ridiculous and sad.

Do those parents get as upset when their children see some scantily clad person on TV or in a magazine, or is that just part of the culture, while art is different?
This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.
Invision Power Board © 2001-2014 Invision Power Services, Inc.