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Full Version: What the F@%&?! And more feminist outrage...
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maddy29
lol-yeah like to remind us they are straight....

i dunno, i mean basketball players are WAAYYY more covered up than these women.....shorts go down to their knees...and they aren't undulating in a sexee way, so it's pretty different.



i just found this: re: girls gone wild...

http://www.idsnews.com/news/story.php?adid...ch&id=40387

pretty amazing what we can do when we get organized!

llamas
Maddy, that sucks that the game was ruined for you (and I'm sure many other people) by the new dancers. That just seems so unnessessarily objectifying that it's ridiculous!
[Warning, personal rant ahead] It's definitely a pet peeve of mine that cheerleading has moved in the direction it has in the past several years...even high school squads have midriff-baring tops and whatnot now! I cheered in junior high and high school in the 90s, but could not have been on a squad if the outfits then were like they are now. Hell, most of the girls on my squad probably would have been out if they had to expose their bellies to cheer! It sucks that an entire sport is being placed out of reach of non-skinny girls because of the uniforms. That, and we always fought to be taken seriously as athletes, and that certainly can't help.
/end former cheerleader rant. tongue.gif

ETA: crossposts! Wombat, good point...hee.
chani
I was thinking the same thing at a Raptors basketball game recently. Even worse, at halftime they had the Junior Raptorgirls - about 20 little girls doing a similar dance routine (no gymnastics, just pop video dance moves). However, I was slightly mollified by what followed: two teams of kids playing a 5 minute basketball game on the court. The teams WERE coed and they were GOOD! So at least the girls got the message that they could play instead of just cheer.
lilacwine13
Personally, I like the basketball uniforms they wore about 20 years ago--short shorts with form-fitting tops. wink.gif

Wombat, I realized last week during the Bears/Saints game that football must have been designed by gay men because of all the tackling, hugging and butt-slapping going on (not to mention the form-fitting pants). Come to think of it, the cheerleaders in football aren't exactly covered up either, and they do show a lot of truck ads. Hmmm....
lucizoe
Yeah...so, this is totally disgusting.

'Cause you know - it's not enough to be raped. Best to get thrown in jail for an erroneous warrant, and then denied emergency contraception because the jail's medical supervisor's religious beliefs trump your right to not get pregnant with the spawn of a fucking rapist. And then held in jail for almost two days, reducing the efficacy fo the EC when you finally have the opportunity to get it.

I think I need myself a long long break from reality.
aviatrix
that is disgusting. there are so many things wrong with that i don't even know where to start....
culturehandy
What.The.Fuck.
greenbean
Oh no. I think my lunch is coming back up.
LoveMyPugs
WOW!!!

FUBAR!!!


blink.gif mad.gif blink.gif mad.gif
punkerplus
I feel physically sick. The supervisor should be fired immediately for that. The poor woman. Ugh.
katiebelle2882
everyone should be fired for that. ANYONE who was on duty.
maddy29
if y'all get emails from planned parenthood, or even if you don't-they had a "write your reps" thingy about this, i think it was sent out today. so awful. about the EC but also-you don't throw a rape victim in jail, unless the warrant was for like, murder....gak. it's SO depressing to me. makes me want to go bury my head in the sand.

she "didn't believe in EC" well, i don't "believe" in jail. fer god's sakes, it's not like EC is santa claus-where you either believe or you don't!!!!
justlisten
Has anyone read the article A Time Limit on Rape in the newest Time magazine -- link to the article on Time's website?
My favorite part was the "consensual sex contract" that was mentioned. Found a copy of that here.
Its an interesting idea, but I'm not sure why it is a big deal. Stop immediately. Sure, I'll give you a second or two, but if you are obviously still going at it, its at least shifty and questionable. What does everyone else think?
sybarite
From the Time article:
'Mel Feit, executive director of the National Center for Men, a male-advocacy group based in Old Bethpage, N.Y., says biology is a factor. "At a certain point during arousal, we don't have complete control over our ability to stop,"

This statement is bullshit. End of story. Men can stop if they need to.
erinjane
Oh my cod, that's infuriating!
maddy29
yeah, totally awful. twisty wrote about it just now on her blog. really insane.

yeah, there's a BIG difference between not being able to stop and not wanting to stop!
ginger_kitty
I read about that a few days ago, and was of course outraged!! It's like saying you agreed to have sex, so sit there and take it. Very wrong.

If anyone's intrested I posted a link to that Planned Parenthood write your local rep site, that maddy was referring to, in the This Just In thread a few days ago.
anarch
I hadn't heard about the original court case re a guy getting only a 1-year sentence for doing nothing to stop the rape of a 9-year-old girl, but at least now someone's trying to make sure future penalties mean something!
ginger_kitty
anarch, I hadn't read about that case anywhere. I agree though, at least someone is trying to do something to bring about stricter sentences. One year is appauling! I wonder with probation how long the creep will really even serve?
aviatrix
i agree. it's amazing to me that people get all caught up talking about get tough on crime but when it comes to crimes like rape, there is scant little said.
anarch
This is encouraging though, if it's accurate: "crime reports, victimization surveys and public health measures consistently reveal something else: large declines in the percentages of young women [in California] reporting violence against them, especially sexual attacks, and of young men committing rape and other violent offenses."
nohope
Sorority evictions: not a pretty picture

GREENCASTLE, Ind. — When a psychology professor at DePauw University surveyed students, they described one sorority as a group of "daddy's little princesses" and another as "offbeat hippies." The sisters of Delta Zeta were seen as "socially awkward." Worried that a negative stereotype of the sorority was contributing to a decline in membership that had left its Greek-columned house here half empty, Delta Zeta's national officers interviewed 35 DePauw members in November, quizzing them about their dedication to increasing recruitment. They judged 23 of the women insufficiently committed and later told them to vacate the sorority house.

The 23 members included every woman who was overweight. They also included the only black, Korean and Vietnamese members. The dozen students allowed to stay were slender and popular with fraternity men — conventionally pretty women the sorority hoped could attract new recruits. Six of the 12 were so infuriated they quit.

read more
http://www.timesargus.com/apps/pbcs.dll/ar...368/1002/NEWS01
aviatrix
so much for sisterhood....
doodlebug
Ooh, I was just popping in to post that sorority story.

I don't know much about the "sorority lifestyle," but I hope they aren't allowed to get away with this elitist crap.
kelkello
One of the sororities at my college had a hazing ritual (yes, they do them when they say they don't) where their "brother" fraternity would circle all the "flawed" parts of the pledges' bodies with sharpie markers. They would strip them down to their underwear and mark anything that needed "work." The same fraternity got booted off campus for hazing a guy so bad he lost his mind and was hospitalized. The thing that made him snap was they made all their pledges kill a small animal and bring proof. If any busties have good experiences with greek life, so be it. But I've always seen it as a friend rental situation. Nothing about that Delta Zeta story is surprising to me. Sickening, yes. But not particularly surprising.
doodlebug
From good old Wikipedia, here is the Creed of the Delta Zeta sorority:

To the World I promise temperance, insight, and courage, To crusade for justice , To seek the truth and defend it always;

To those whom my life may touch in slight measure, May I give graciously of what is mine;

To my friends, understanding and appreciation;

To those closer ones, Love that is ever steadfast;

To my mind, Growth;

To myself, Faith; That I may walk truly In the light of the flame.


As the blog Bitch PhD points out:

"If you read in between the lines of the news story, it's fabulous: they kicked out a computer science major with the research skills to go track down evidence of past discrimination in the library; a junior with the organizational skills and chutzpah to put together an open meeting at the student union to tell the DePauw student body what had really happened; and the editor of the DePauw student paper (what were they thinking?!?).

"If Delta Zeta wanted to do a scientific experiment to raise the consciousness of smart, ambitious, accomplished young women, they couldn't have done a better job."
aviatrix
To the World I promise temperance, insight, and courage, To crusade for justice , To seek the truth and defend it always;
and the truth is, my organization is a self-serving piece of S*ht.
To those whom my life may touch in slight measure, May I give graciously of what is mine;
and take it away when it's not in my interest.
To my friends, understanding and appreciation;
for as long as they are my friends
To those closer ones, Love that is ever steadfast;
so long as they are popular with frat boys
To my mind, Growth;
(growth of the sorority)
To myself, Faith; That I may walk truly In the light of the flame.
and still be blind to our hypocrisies.
culturehandy
Sororities scare me. I noticed in my last fwe years of university that the sororites where recruiting hugely, and sororities are not big in Canada. All the women that were recruiting, were so cookie cutter, and it was like a creepy Stepford Wives kind of thing.
ginger_kitty
I agree, culture. I have never thought much of sororities. To me they seem very anti-feminist.
nickclick
QUOTE(ginger_kitty @ Feb 27 2007, 03:40 PM) *

I agree, culture. I have never thought much of sororities. To me they seem very anti-feminist.

which is too bad, since they could be great feminist environments.

freshman year i had a friend that joined a sorority and was actually not allowed to talk to anyone except her soon-to-be "sisters." needless to say, that stopped our friendship pretty quickly.
sidecar
I've never had much respect for the Greek system, but I did find it heartening that six of the twelve remaining "acceptable" sorority sisters quit in disgust over the decision.

How stupid can you get? All the overweight girls and all the women of color? Like no one would notice. Idiots.
culturehandy
I agree, sororities could do a huge amount of good.

I (for shame too) equate them with this cult like thing or girls gone wild. Ugh.
octobersky
Somehow that doesn't surprise me that Delta Zeta or any sorority kicked out members 'cause they didn't fit an image. There is a really good book I read recently titled "Pledged" quite interesting. The author has a chapter on alternative sororites that have been forming, they allow anyone and everyone to join, give students a support network and do various charity-type stuff. Nice.

The Greek system wasn't huge at the school I went to but I did see how girls were encouraged to conform to a certain image. I knew a girl from HS who was smart, funny, kind, brunette and normal body size and when she pledged after the whole process she was snotty, blonde and emaciated. I had seen other girls who pledged as freshman, thinking this was a good idea, but then later morphed in an "undesirable" image for the sorority such as punk, goth, hippie etc. and was then told to leave or completely stripped of her letters. I knew a girl this happened to because apparently having pinked streaked hair wasn't the sorority image. A black friend of mine heard through the grapevine that she wasn't extended an invitation to a couple "white girl" sororities because they didn't want to integrate yet - this was the mid 1990's -WTF!?!?!?!!!!!!

At my alma matter the Tri-Delts were kicked off campus in the 70's because they were dealing drugs and sex. As a result the sorority is banned from ever being on the campus again.

Kelko - I think I know exactly the sorority you are talking about. A friend of mine was an RA in a freshman dorm and was woken up one night by a drunk, sobbing pledge who related a very similar story. Had my friend not had first hand experience with, I'm not sure I would have believed it, because it sounds so horrific and dramatic. I knew of another sorority that required the pledges to perform certain "sexual favors" for their brother fraternity as part of the pledge process.
culturehandy
Because nothing says sisterhood like sucking a frat brothers cock.
aviatrix
i'm tempted to say that the black greek system is better cos i had a cousin who i adore was a kappa-- in a black sorority-- the AKA, but i don't know if it is better. she was a wild child when she was in hs, but wore the colors way too much when she was in it. but she was always pretty independent. who knows
octobersky
I dunno about the black Greek system, I had a couple of guy friends who said they went through some pretty tough hazing, but that's the fraternities. I think alot of times it depends on the personalities of the members whether there is hazing or not. But if the sorority helped calm your wild child cousin then it was good for her.

Yeah, I didn't believe the whole "sexual favors" thing until there was a Greek blood drive on my campus and the sorority and fraternity that were the subject of the rumour, were found to have multiple cases of HIV between the two. Nice, huh? Pledge a sorority or fraternity, get HIV. Lovely.

kelkello
Yeah, the stories sound overly dramatic when you first hear them. When I heard the stories about what was going on at my school, I thought, "No fucking way." But just do a little research, talk to a girl who didn't make it through hell week, and you start to believe. The guy I mentioned who had to kill an animal was on a talk show telling his story. The campus police made all the freshman watch it as a "stern warning" about the no hazing policy at the university. Yeah, right. All that did was make the sororities and fraternities get more creative and insidious when creating their "rituals." After all, nothing says sisterhood like some good old fashioned mental abuse, huh?

I don't know much about the black Greek system, either. I do know one at the university here brands their pledges with their letters. It is supposedly a voluntary thing, but ALL of the guys do it. I'm not sure how truly voluntary it is.
No_Plastic
I'm an 18 year-old journalism and digital media communications major at a small Catholic women's college in the midwest, and I'm a feminist. Also, not catholic. I thought coming to a women's college would be a great place to go when you aspire to be a powerful, outspoken woman, and so far I've been very wrong. There are a few exceptions (for example, my academic advisor and journalism professor.. she and I are both longtime BUST readers), but for the most part I've found women that are going to college to get a degree in trophy wifery so they can marry one of the boys from the nearby engineering school.

For my Advanced Reporting class, I was told to choose an issue that I felt was important and do an in-depth, three-part article on it. I decided on "Why is Feminism a Dirty Word," because from what I've seen, on this campus it is. It's not just because this is a Catholic school... I know many nuns who are feminists. I have to wonder if it's just this generation.

At the start of this project, I interviewed a few of the girls from the college. I wanted to know what they thought of when they thought of feminism, and if they considered themselves to be feminists. The answers I got, for the most part, were disappointing. I even had one girl criticize me for calling myself a feminist. "You have a boyfriend! You knit and sew, for Christ's sake." Poor choice of words for a Catholic girl...

Sorry about the rant, but I'm suffering from some severe feminist outrage right now. I'm beginning to think that this article is going to blow up in my face. I was hoping to find that the majority of the women at this college consider themselves feminists, but so far.. nada. If you have any suggestions, I would really appreciate them.
tesao
welcome, no plastic!

sounds to me as if you have a perfect article on why feminism is a dirty word in the making. 3 parts, hmmm?

background, why you wanted to write this particular article, what you expected to find

students who don't think feminists should have boyfriends or wear makeup

interview the NUNS!! see what THEY think!

lastly, interview young women outside of campus, older women who have jobs, interview MEN. young and old.

hell, interview US.

you would have a wealth of material!

best of luck!
bunnyb
Also, if you can, use the evidence of BUST's own cover celebs who distance themselves from feminism in their interview, as if it's a dirty word (I'm thinking recently Gwen Stefani and in the last couple of years Rose McGowan and PJ Harvey, to a lesser degree.) I don't have it to hand but Susan Sarandon's answer was interesting, if I remember correctly she discusses it being deemed a dirty word.
No_Plastic
Wow, those are really great ideas! I wish I had all those old issues.. I have the Rose McGowan and the Susan Sarandon ones, but I may have to order the back issues of the others.

The three parts of the article are a background issue piece (very general), a bio of someone who has a lot to do with feminism and feminist issues (still working on finding someone), and one about why this is relevant to the college community (and that's an easy one, because where would it be more relevant than a women's college?).
roseviolet
I think this was probably posted recently on The Lounge, but I think the famous "Yes, You Are" essay will make you feel a bit better, No Plastic. It'll certainly provide food for thought to your classmates.
"Yes, You Are" by Sarah D. Bunting
No_Plastic
That is the EXACT point I want to make to the women at my college. I wonder if Sara D. Bunting would mind me quoting her... thanks for linking me! I can't believe I've never seen that.

I'm trying to organize a discussion. I want to get a large group of Woodsies (we go to St. Mary-of-the-Woods, so we call ourselves Woodsies) in a room.. with snacks.. to discuss feminism, what they think of whne they think feminist, and whether or not they consider themselves one. It's going to be hard to do, because it's difficult to tear some of those girls away from House reruns, but I think that's the best solution in this case.

Thanks for all the suggestions. I hate being the newbie that posts the day she gets her account, but I just needed words of wisdom that I knew the BUST community could give.
pollystyrene
Hey, my boyfriend's mom went to St. Mary of the Woods! It was one of the few women's colleges at the time that had a serious science program.
octobersky
My friend goes to St. Mary's - we are talking about the one in IN, right? I was just there last week visting. The campus and buildings are beautiful. My friend is a senior and she was commenting on how much she has enjoyed being at an all women's college and how it has given her a sense of empowerment. I know she identifies herself as a feminist. But yeah I'm always shocked when I meet women who don't consider themselves feminists, how can you not be? Boggles the mind...




Oh yeah check out Backlash by Susan Faludi, you can skim it for material.
No_Plastic
There are quite a few girls who consider themselves feminists there, but it sure does boggle the mind when I meet so many that don't.

It is an amazing campus. I love being there (especially in the fall.. nothing better than the Woods in the fall), but what I expected and what I found are completely different. Our women's studies department is tiny. I've heard girls say, "She's such a dyke and I hate her," about one of our women's studies professors, just because she's hardcore old-school feminist (she was around in the 70s, and she was fighting for equal rights then, so I respect her for that).

I don't know. This could be an overreaction, but my journalism professor (a Woods alum) feels the same way I do.
octobersky
No Plastic - if you want I found some of my back issues of BUST when I moved - I can always scan articles and email them to you if you want. Just PM me if you want.

candycane_girl
I've always found the issue of being called a feminist interesting. One of my guy friends once made some stupid remark about me not being a feminist because I want to get married and have kids someday. wtf? I told him that I totally consider myself to be a feminist and he seemed a bit surprised by it.

I don't know why so many women are afraid of the word. It's like...feminism got some kind of bad reputation along the way as being crazy radicals that hate all men and want to take over the world. That's definitely not what I believe in but unfortunately, I think that's how a lot of people have come to view feminists.
tesao
i think that someone else touched on the issue a few posts back. i was in university (undergraduate) during the early seventies. i read simone de beauvoir and had a subscription to the original MS Magazine and marched for the Equal Rights Amendment and got arrested because i wouldn't leave the area surrrounding the capitol grounds and was involved in all of this PRE roe v wade and our woman's center offered "menstrual regulation" and showed women how to build their own vacuum aspirators.

there was a lot of radical feminism going around in those days. i lived in a lesbian women's collective with my female partner and was told that i couldn't have male friends visit me (unless they snuck in the back door). i got harrassed by my bisexuality a LOT back then.

it never made much sense to me. if we as women were ignoring men and refusing to let them be in our lives in any way, how was that better than what they had been doing to women for so many centuries?

i like third wave feminism. it isn't so boxy, so strict. i don't have to give anything up to be a feminist. i can still wear makeup and like cocks and i don't have to feel obliged to justify it.

what makes me a feminist? the fact that i can be hired for a long term higher management position by a well known organization and sent to africa without anyone even question the "female" issue. i have that choice now. i have LOTS of choices i didn't have when i was younger. when my sister applied to vet school in the 60's, no one wanted to accept a GASP!!!! WOMAN!! now, most graduates from vet schools ARE women! okay, we still get paid less overall. and we are still the ones looked down upon for deciding to have careers instead of children.

i like the freedom to be who i am, without having to apologize for it.

girltrouble
i guess the thing that bugs me about celebs (or most women) who aren't feminists is that they usually haven't given it much thought, and they haven't had anyone push them to question that.

i sit here slack jawed at tes' last post (and really tes, you've always impressed me). showed women how to build their own vacuum aspirators. i think too often we forget that that wasn't that long ago. i think too often we forget how much this country has changed in the last 60 years. in the last 120 years. so many people fought so hard for so many things we take for granted. for brown kids, for women, for the middle class and working class, for the handycapped, for queer kids. and that the benificaries would take that struggle so lightly as to deny it?

somebody needs to be slapped.

it should not be ok that there are kids raised to think that they [i] don't have to take a stand on these things.

it should not be ok that there are kids raised without knowing enough history to know about those fights to get all the things they can so easily blow off.

really. someone needs to be slapped.
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