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jemisoutrageous
Bump Dammit! I say Bump!!!
maddy29
ok i'll bump:-)

so my roommate is on this insane health kick, and she's all obsessed with food and exercise. and she's judgemental about what others eat. I knew that she was talking shit about my food intake behind my back, and I could kinda feel her looking at my food. Ok, she's obsessed, I'm not, I can deal.

BUT! Then I had made some pasta for me and the dude, and we filled up big bowls and went to go eat. A few days later, my roomie says to me "oh yeah, I was saying to A (our other roomie) that I can't believe how much pasta Maddy ate!!" I was just like yeah, and I wasn't even full! I was so mad though-like who gives you the right? Just becuase she's obsessed with counting calories and talks about it non-stop. Grrrrr....

IT's like, disordered eating is now the norm. I had just went for a 6 mile hike, I was hungry, so how can someone say it's "too much."

Anyways, there's your bump jem:-) your lovely lady bump, check it out!
livelyupurself
Yeah, everyones so concerned with what we put in our mouths. Why the hell don't they concern themselves with bigger and better things, like lets just say for instance, how many of our men and women are dying in an illegal oil war? Oh because that would require actual thought and not make them feel superior.

You might consider kindly telling your roomate that your eating habits are none of her nosy ass business and discussing it with someone else is very rude and a complete invasion in privacy. You could point out that you do not find it acceptable to discuss her choices in life with others, because, for one she is a fully functioning adult and you are not her mother, and for two it is just beyond tacky to do so. Also that if you wanted a diet coach you'd hire one, so she can keep her unsolicited advice.

A six mile hike is a lot more than she is doing while is running her *fat* mouth.
maddy29
lol:-) thanks for the validation. I was so shocked that she said that, I of course couldn't come up with anything cooly scathing to say. Plus, I just think it's sad, too. I know it upsets her that I'm about 15 pounds overweight. It's weird.

She's moving out soon so I don't really care anyways, but yeah, shocking what people think they can say!

She was telling me about one day at the gym she saw these two 20-something women and they were wearing shorts and it showed they had cellulite! EWWWWW!!! She was saying that they needed to go home and put on pants. It's just unbelievable....
edna
maddy, when I was in college, I had a bulemic roommate who constantly told people that I was "obese" even though I was at a very normal and healthy weight, just not super-skinny. People who hate themselves often project their shit on others.
maddy29
I know, i mean i kinda feel bad, because the whole reason she's on this kick is because her fiance the med student is worried about her getting adult diabetes. Ok, that's fine, but he must have bugged her about it a lot, because she's totally obsessed.

And yeah, it's definitley about her own stuff and not about me, so I didn't take it personally or feel bad or anything-which is good! I used to take that stuff personally and now I don't. But it's still hard when yes, I am out of shape and somewhat overweight, so thanks for being a shit about it....gak.
ohsweetie
i dont think she's being so hard on herself b/c of what her partner said, nor is she being hard on you b/c there's anything wrong with you. more than likely your roommate has some deepseated issues around body, maybe from an expartner, her mother, or a media image that she looks up to (or the fact that people congradulate those who look skeleton-like). really, its important not to take on her emotions and to let her project her crap on you and you actually show that film! you are strong enough to withstand her misplaced energies and emotions b/c more often than not she's probably jealous, or upset with herself b/c she still craves that big bowl of pasta and for her it could be more than not consuming, its also not thinking about consuming. maybe if she is moving, and your bridge is already on fire, mention this to her, saying you want the best for her, that you're worried about young women taking on unhealthy body images, propaganda away, because the least we can do is understand that your roommate is a person with some issues and the least we can do is plant the seed so one day language like that wont escape her mouth and she'll treat others more positively in the future (hopefully!!)
maddy29
that's true, you're right- she was probably just really hungry, and saw me just enjoying a huge bowl of pasta, which she won't allow herself to do anymore. that's why it's sad, even though it was so rude.

i yelled at her once (kinda jokingly) and told her if she mentioned the word "calorie" again i'd just walk out of the room. i don't think she even realized how often she talked about it. my dude woudl bring over bagels, and we'd be fixing them, and she ran up to her laptop and came down and said "those bagels are 500 calories each." lol! i was like thanks, i don't remember asking you.

man, she must be so hungry. this is making me hungry. i'm gonna go eat:-)
mel
This issue of sizism is a measure of whether I can be friends with a person (that is if they are willing to be honest about it). The bias crosses all social and political lines.

I'm in that in-between place where I have been back and forth from 8 to 12 (American sizing) since I was 13. The difference is usually related to how much stress I have in my life at that time and whether I have the time and energy to devote to the physical. I've seen a drastic difference in how I was treated even within that range, which I consider to be perfectly fine at 5'6".

The real eye opener for me has been watching how people behave toward my sister, who is a clone of me but a size 32. Actually she has much more beautiful, symmetrical features, perfect teeth, pale blue eyes, copper hair and impeccable taste and groooming. But that is not enough for people.

There was an incident on a plane when I was traveling with her and my best friend, it was a crowded, open seating flight and when my sister went to sit down next to this petite pinch-faced woman, she stood and grimaced and looked at me and rolled her eyes. The battle was on...I asked her if she had a problem and she proceeded to say that yes she did, that my sister should have to pay for two seats. I was so crushed that the best I could muster was to loudly say "what a jerk you are!" My sister moved down the aisle, found another seat and kept a cool head. I went to the back of the plane, sat down and started to cry uncontrollably (granted, other things were going on that made me delicate that day). But the best part of the story is that my best friend who was with us (5 ft. tall, tiny) sat next to the bitch and proceeded to make the rest of the flight very uncomfortable for her by telling her and anyone within listening distance that she was bigoted, sizist, etc. etc. This is a woman who can bring a bully to her knees with a single glance. And she did. The woman became flustered and didn't say another thing the rest of the flight.

We heard the story afterwards and I was so grateful for having an advocate. She said my sister was family and "no one fucks with my family."

Being fat is so much more complex than what you eat or how active or energetic you are. It's heredity, psychology, the culture of food, and just plain human variation. You can argue all day that it's a health hazard, but so are many hazardous lifestyles that don't result in obesity and these people are not vilified.

I know I'm preaching to the choir here, but it is a subject close to my heart and if one person reads it who has been a jerk toward someone on a plane and thinks twice about it, it's worth mentioning.

jemisoutrageous
I feel so, like "Thank you for sharing" Mel. That was a great syory. I'm glad your friend sat next to that sizist bitch and called her out on her shit. Sometimes the worst part for the truly overweight is feeling like you dn't have an advocate .I'm glad your sister does.
yuefie
You know, in my experience sizism goes both ways. I have a very dear friend who is the polar opposite of me, naturally very small and thin. We've been friends since the third grade, and were always taunted for hanging out together. Yeah, it was usually the regular old "fatty and skinny" but sometimes they were more clever caustic in their commentary. In some ways it was worse for her. She was constantly struggling to gain weight, and people would harass her like she was starving herself. If she ate in front of others they would comment on the amount, or act like she was going to go throw it up. And these were supposed friends and even family members. In school, the boys were especially vicious with her. Strangers would be the same to her as they would to me, make cruel remarks or jokes at her expense. At least for me most of the asshole "friends" said their nasty remarks behind my back. She was constantly barraged with this kind of crap. I spoke with her recently, shortly after she was married and she said it's business as usual. Her husbands family, coworkers, people in the store, etc. Why do people feel that your body is their damned business? I will never be a small or thin person, she will never be tall or voluptuous, but we both struggle with other peoples judgements of us. I always used to joke with her that if only I could share what I have too much, of we'd both be happy. She has been my best ally, and I hers.
opheliathemuse
Thanks for directing me here, yuefie. People treat you differently when your body is small. And they're mean. Or just plain creepy.
I have to say, I was particularly upset by the discussion in the Foodnetwork thread about Giada De Laurentiis. I know many people don't like her, and I don't care whether you do or don't. But many people mentioned her slenderness in the same breath as not liking her. In my mind, that's just not very feminist, or even very kind.
maddy29
I know that I'm guilty of the whole "I hate you because you're skinny and tiny" thing. I'm 5'10, I've been 5'10 since I was 14, and it sucked being a big tall girl. I wasn't overweight, but I felt like I was because I was just so much BIGGER than everyone else!

So when I see tiny little girls I do feel envious. Not even just cause they are skinny, but because they aren't a huge Amazon woman.

I think people will judge no matter what. A long time ago, maybe 10 years, I was eating at BK with my friend's friend. I scarfed down my usual (at the time) whopper with cheese, xtra big fries, xtra big coke.

Then I had to go pee, so I went to the bathroom. While I was in there, my friend's friend said "is she going in there to puke?" I was so shocked, because I felt like I was ugly and fat and here was this other person assuming I was bulimic cause there's no way I could eat like that and still stay slim.
mel
This might already have come up in the past or might belong in another thread, but I was happy to see the ad campaign for skincare featuring regular women in their underwear. It was downright subversive! It was different from the ads that feature plus-size models, who are often just very tall, height-weight proportionate women. I want to see short legs, apple shapes, big butts, women with curves and no curves...because that's how it really is. And that's who is buying the products. I was able to look at some of them and see my own body. It looked damned good!

This was a token campaign, I'm sure, and whether it does well or not will determine if anyone follows its lead. I really hope there is more of this to come in the mainstream.
hummingbird
oh maddy29, tall women rule! I love being tall, I am about 5'9'. I wear boots that make me like 6ft or close to it. I love it. Amazon women rule! Gawd we're sexy! I have never felt strange because of my height. But I can understand, because this society says women should be not only skinny but petitte with lil' hands, and features, but huge breasts----->it's ridiculous. The fact that women internalize these things and perpetuate them is just oppression running it's course. Love ourselves, love our fat, love every part.
crazyoldcatlady
HA! for some reason, hummingbird, i just got this mental image of a giant boob with little stick hands and feet walking down the street...:-)
maddy29
yeah, now i actually like being tall and just embrace it. but sometimes i still long to be a little thin girl. i have come a looong way towards acceptance of my body though.

honestly coclady- i've seen women that look almost like that-just one big boob walking down the street with skinny chicken legs and arms. very weird.
tatina
Maddy, same here. I was also asked several times if I am bulemic or anorexic and I always felt really hurt. Sometimes women came with that strange sisterly wisper: "You are throwing up, aren't you?" No, I never could get myself to throw up, I am just naturally thin. It's my bodytype, not a big deal. And for all girls who think they are too fat: Spend some time in North Africa or Asia - you will be a celebrated star! It's all cultural.
steppe_child
I am so tired of people on diets telling me how much that (have not) eaten that day. My boss does this and she has lost about 20 lbs over the past 3 months. Compounding my irritation at her droning on and on about how she "only had two sardines for lunch!" is the fact that every time she sees me eating she says, "you must have a really high metabolism rate--you eat junk all day and still stay thin."

Um, no, I stay thin because I have worked out every day of my life since I was 18 and I stay thin because I was a fat kid and I know how hard that can be. I mean, she is a psychologist by training GET A CLUE TALKING ABOUT PEOPLE'S WEIGHT WHETHER THEY ARE FAT OR SKINNY IS RUDE.
jasmith
Ugh, all throughout jr high, where the pre-teens don't seem to know any better, I was asked if I was anorexic. At least once a week. Personally, I never felt I was *that* thin.
There's this guy where I work that asks EVERY TIME HE SEES ME if I throw up.
*********NO! STOP ASKING!*********
I get all stressed when I start feeling nauseous, I HATE the feeling of throwing up, so why in the world would I make myself do it? I know that bulimia is a real problem, but for someone who doesn't even really know you (an older adult, no less), asking such a thing REPEATEDLY is way out of line, not to mention sexist (in a sense).
venetia
When I went to boarding school I was placed at a special table for meals where they could keep an eye on me as I ate. I didn't find out for ages, that I was under official observation, or that they thought I was first anorexic because of my thin-ness and then bulimic because I ate like a horse and ate extra desserts and so on. I was just a normal growing teenager!

Later I found out even my family had suspected it because of the amount I eat and my habit of going to the toilet before and after a meal (sheesh, it's just I like to pee so all the food doesn't press on my bladder). I was soo hurt and offended.
nubianqueen
I can remember when I was in middle school, and like most middle school girls, I hit puberty. While other girls around me were gaining breasts and cute pubesent pre-teen hips, I had already skipped ahead of them and was already tall with large hips, thighs and bottocks, and ironically, no boobs whatsoever.

I was one of the few black kids at a predominantly white school and the idea of a girl with a big ass was just "unusual". All I heard growing up was, " Hey fat ass" or ," You should seriously get liposuction for that ass, it's too big" and compared to my smaller predecessors... it was rather big. For years I had hidden my hump under baggy jeans and long t-shirts, but as time rolled by, clothes started to get clingy and mid-drifs were becoming all the rage, and my tom-boy look was getting old.

Like anyone, I wanted to wear what all the thin, less voluptuous girls were wearing, but because of my proportions, it was nearly impossible. I found it ironic when Jennifer Lopez was gaining recognition in the media spotlight that big butts were trendy.
Soon all the girls that used to make fun of me for having a soft rotound behind were suddenly praising me for having a "booty like J-Lo" when ironically mine was much much much larger than hers.

It probably took me until college to gain body acceptance. I had to embrace the fact that as a african-american woman, I was going to be shaped differently than my non-black peers. But to this day I still struggle to fit into a pair of jeans or a skirt which seems like it was unfairly tailored for someone with a vintage shape and linda carter- like arms.

*Sigh*
cloverbee
I think sizism is still an acceptable prejudice b/c people believe that you have control over the size of your body which is not always the case. It's just ignorance plain and simple
bella_coola
I hope we all learn to love our bodies sooner than later! I think I'm getting close. I'm getting a LOT more active, which is helping - as well as the way I'm eating. Not counting a thing, just sticking to whole foods. When I do stuff that makes my body feel good, it's easier to feel good about my body. I've got a bit of a booty myself, despite my 100% euro ancestry (as far as I know...) and I love it. I don't have boobs to speak of, least I got a boot to hang on to! Cheers to all of you and your different shapes and sizes
katiebelle2882
i wont lie, i am overweight, and i know its my fault bc i havent been good at working out and i dont eat healthy enough. i am going to take full responsbility for myself bc it is as simple as that for me. i could hem and haw all day about our shitty food supply, but i could avoid it if i wanted to. or at least change. i dont like it bc i KNOW its not healthy and honestly, there arent two ways about it. sure i hate it and hate the way i look, but its all my fault. at least i know that much lol.
darbycrash
katiebelle2882 don't be so hard on yourself! Actually, according to a study published in the New England Journal of Medicine as well as doctors (Glen A. Gasser, MD for example) simply being fat is not unhealthy. What is unhealthy are habits like smoking, sedintary lifestyles, and diets with little to no nutrional value. According to Gasser's studdies as well as others (whose sources I can't quote off the cuff here) the greatest health improvment regarding exercise is people who went from no exercise to moderate (30 minutes a day) activity. One reason you hate the way you look may be the presentation of thin as good and fat as bad by Western Society. It's not just America, England has an obsession with "thin ankles" for some reason and Eastern Bloc countries young women who have "thighs that don't rub" are considered hot. Long ago someone decided that straight lines are good and rolls are bad. Probably the same person that decided only white facial/body attributes are attractive. You can choose what you like and don't like. I urge you to check out www.nolose.org and other fat positive websites like Hank's Gab Cafe on www.fatso.com Life is too short for self hatred and celery sticks.
katiebelle2882
well no, the reason i got overweight is bc i am unhealthy. i know this. i was a swimmmer in college and was in absolutely amazing shape. not thing by any means (thats not my body type-nor did i ever aspire to that) but in very very good condition (thats what happens when you are swimming 15 miles a day!) I have been an athlete my whole life, so i know its not just unattractive looking on me but not good for me as well. theres really just no two ways about it. i mean its not about being fat positive, its really that its not good for me, nor does it look attractive, western society or no western society, i looked better when i was in shape.

i never wanted to be super thin, mostly cause i am very proud (still am cause i still have it) of my athletic ability and how strong i was. by no means was my in shape body even thin in enough by hollywoods standards. however, i looked good, i know i did, and basically its just me venting about how lazy i am to get it back lol. it would truly be ludicrous of me (and require much denial) to sit here and say i didnt need to lose weight just bc western society has messed up views of womens bodies. i mean, maybe it would make me feel better for a bit, but its really just fooling myself into something that is blatantly not true. no matter what anyone says, its not a good thing (nor healthy) to be 3 sized bigger than when you were in shape. its just not.
chachaheels
Oh I totally understand the desire to want to lose weight--but the intention to blame yourself ceaselessly and refer to yourself as "lazy"...that I don't get. By all means, focus your attentions on making your body stronger and leaner, but please consider how much further you'll be if you stop using such negative and disrespectful terms about things associated with the process. It's so self-defeating.

There are so many factors which affect our lives, and most of us don't realize we've either given up our own autonomy or had it torn away from us. In a perfect world, where we all did work that met all of our needs for fulfillment and financial stability while still having enough time to look after all that's required of us spiritually as well as physically and mentally, we'd none of us be "overweight" (whatever that completely arbitrary definition might be). But how many of us actually have this? How many people do you know who can actually imagine how to do this?

Most people spend far too much time getting to and from work they do "just for a paycheque", which often doesn't even provide well enough to that end. Then there are family commitments--doing so much of the supportive work that enables the people in our families to be able to function; and finally, we have to have time to rest (sleep!). "Food" is something most people end up consuming simply for fuel--and also as a compensation for the time that's taken from us when we look after these very real commitments, even if they work to our own detriment.

It takes a long time to select and cook foods from scratch, for every meal, for ourselves and for everyone in our families. It would be ideal--no doubt about it--if we all made healthy choices and invested the time it took to prepare our foods and then cart them around with us everywhere we go so we can eat when we need to. Most people I know leave home early in the morning, grab coffee and something idiotically inappropriate on the way to work, starve all the way through lunchtime (or eat more sugary foods in an effort to stabilize their crashing blood sugar) and then inhale some calorie laden/nutrient deficient sandwich for lunch while they work at their desks. By the time they get home at night, they're exhausted from the long hours at work and in commuting and the last thing they want to think about is a half hour's worth of cooking prep and 1/2 and hour to an hour's worth of cooking time to follow before they can sit down to a meal. And then doing all the washing and tidying up after that's done, too.

For a lot of women, who often take on "part time" shifts or work hours which allow them some flexibility to fit into other peoples' schedule demands (like day care, for example) this often means they get home AFTER everyone else has already had some kind of meal (usually some kind of take out). It's gruelling.

A lot of very profitable "diet" corporations know this is true--so they cater to it, by producing lines of pre-packaged, nutrient deficient "fast foods" of their own. Weight Watchers does this, as does LA Diet Centres, Jenny Craig, and all kinds of companies just like this. Some even forego the idea of creating "food like" items and sell really pricey "shake" mixes, which are just all the ingredients in processed foods in a dry, powdered form. You add the milk, or yogurt, or fruit juice to these mixes on your own and save them the cost of extra ingredients and extra labour. Mix it together for 10 seconds or so, drink it down in less than 5 minutes, wash the mixing container, and you're supposed to be nourished till the next "meal". No thinking, no prep time, no "excess" time taken away from your "work commitments".

When people have the right to demand decent pay for the work they do, plus lives which revolve around what they want to prioritize, only then will we see a change away from current eating habits to the kind which are much more "sane", and allow us greater control and enjoyment of what we eat. Until those very real demands are addressed, dieting and exercise and supplements and regimes are just another variation on the original theme--no time for one's self, no time for one's own life, no time for all aspects of living which actually bring us fulfilment in ourselves. And that includes, to a very large extent, a real acceptance of ourselves and our bodies, whatever shape they happen to have. You're less likely to obsess about that when you derive pleasure from interaction with your family, your friends, or your lover; you have time to devote to your own dreams, which give you an inner strength and a potential for growth that can't be matched any other way. When you can achieve this, self-acceptance is easy--you stop doubting yourself and hating yourself for things like your weight.

That's the only situation which can create health. If you haven't got that but you're stuck to a supposedly "healthy" diet and you're rail thin as a result and obsessive about staying that way, you're as far away from health as you can be.
voodoo_princess
QUOTE(chachaheels @ Jul 14 2006, 01:24 PM) *

Oh I totally understand the desire to want to lose weight--but the intention to blame yourself ceaselessly and refer to yourself as "lazy"...that I don't get. By all means, focus your attentions on making your body stronger and leaner, but please consider how much further you'll be if you stop using such negative and disrespectful terms about things associated with the process. It's so self-defeating.

There are so many factors which affect our lives, and most of us don't realize we've either given up our own autonomy or had it torn away from us. In a perfect world, where we all did work that met all of our needs for fulfillment and financial stability while still having enough time to look after all that's required of us spiritually as well as physically and mentally, we'd none of us be "overweight" (whatever that completely arbitrary definition might be). But how many of us actually have this? How many people do you know who can actually imagine how to do this?

Most people spend far too much time getting to and from work they do "just for a paycheque", which often doesn't even provide well enough to that end. Then there are family commitments--doing so much of the supportive work that enables the people in our families to be able to function; and finally, we have to have time to rest (sleep!). "Food" is something most people end up consuming simply for fuel--and also as a compensation for the time that's taken from us when we look after these very real commitments, even if they work to our own detriment.

It takes a long time to select and cook foods from scratch, for every meal, for ourselves and for everyone in our families. It would be ideal--no doubt about it--if we all made healthy choices and invested the time it took to prepare our foods and then cart them around with us everywhere we go so we can eat when we need to. Most people I know leave home early in the morning, grab coffee and something idiotically inappropriate on the way to work, starve all the way through lunchtime (or eat more sugary foods in an effort to stabilize their crashing blood sugar) and then inhale some calorie laden/nutrient deficient sandwich for lunch while they work at their desks. By the time they get home at night, they're exhausted from the long hours at work and in commuting and the last thing they want to think about is a half hour's worth of cooking prep and 1/2 and hour to an hour's worth of cooking time to follow before they can sit down to a meal. And then doing all the washing and tidying up after that's done, too.

For a lot of women, who often take on "part time" shifts or work hours which allow them some flexibility to fit into other peoples' schedule demands (like day care, for example) this often means they get home AFTER everyone else has already had some kind of meal (usually some kind of take out). It's gruelling.

A lot of very profitable "diet" corporations know this is true--so they cater to it, by producing lines of pre-packaged, nutrient deficient "fast foods" of their own. Weight Watchers does this, as does LA Diet Centres, Jenny Craig, and all kinds of companies just like this. Some even forego the idea of creating "food like" items and sell really pricey "shake" mixes, which are just all the ingredients in processed foods in a dry, powdered form. You add the milk, or yogurt, or fruit juice to these mixes on your own and save them the cost of extra ingredients and extra labour. Mix it together for 10 seconds or so, drink it down in less than 5 minutes, wash the mixing container, and you're supposed to be nourished till the next "meal". No thinking, no prep time, no "excess" time taken away from your "work commitments".

When people have the right to demand decent pay for the work they do, plus lives which revolve around what they want to prioritize, only then will we see a change away from current eating habits to the kind which are much more "sane", and allow us greater control and enjoyment of what we eat. Until those very real demands are addressed, dieting and exercise and supplements and regimes are just another variation on the original theme--no time for one's self, no time for one's own life, no time for all aspects of living which actually bring us fulfilment in ourselves. And that includes, to a very large extent, a real acceptance of ourselves and our bodies, whatever shape they happen to have. You're less likely to obsess about that when you derive pleasure from interaction with your family, your friends, or your lover; you have time to devote to your own dreams, which give you an inner strength and a potential for growth that can't be matched any other way. When you can achieve this, self-acceptance is easy--you stop doubting yourself and hating yourself for things like your weight.

That's the only situation which can create health. If you haven't got that but you're stuck to a supposedly "healthy" diet and you're rail thin as a result and obsessive about staying that way, you're as far away from health as you can be.


Chachaheels - ty ty ty
that was an excellent summary of "real life" and how the push to be "healthy" is a double edged sword.
The media etc. makes us feel like we HAVE to be thin to be happy and pretty and a million people out there are barking at us about what we NEED to do to be "healthy" but what I haven't heard anyone out there say is HOW!!!! How do we get up in the morning, make a healthy, freshly prepared morning meal while dressing for work, chasing the kids down to get ready for school, catching up on last minute things and running out the door for a job that takes up most our time? How do we stop for a healthy meal at mid day when our employer gives us a lunch time that is only long enough to make it to the restroom, wash hands and take a wee, then WHOOPS! it's over! How do we prepare a fresh and healthy meal in the evening between rushing home, picking up children, school activities, helping with homework, bath time etc etc etc...... We all know how it goes and I just wish that one of these genius health nuts on the tele would tell us HOW we are supposed to exercise 3 or 4 times a week, prepare fresh foods in a healthy manner etc etc while we are rushing through the rest of our lives to keep up????? I JUST WANNA KNOW!
I have finally finally realized that these people on the tele who look so perfect, eat just so and want to tell everyone else what to do to be just like them, HAVE NOTHING ELSE TO DO..... so they have PLENTY of time to shop for all fresh foods, take forever to prepare them, exercise 3 or 4 times a day, count all their calories etc etc etc....... What a crock! It's just not feasible for REAL people.
And something I find very funny is I can remember being in high school and taking Home Ec. and the teacher preaching about how it COSTS LESS to buy all fresh foods and prepare everything from scratch, than it is to buy pre-packaged foods. OMG that is so not true now! I just went to the store last week and AS A TREAT, bought all fresh veges to make a vege pot pie...... it cost me 1/2 of my regular weekly food allowance just to prepare that one nights meal!!!!!!! I had to stretch that vege pie out for 3 days just to compensate, and I have 4 people to feed! It is a sad day when fresh veges are a TREAT because it costs so much to buy them..... and forget the meat, who can afford that? So what does that leave? Canned veges that are full of salt, pasta, bread, pre-packaged foods..... all the stuff that we supposedly shouldn't eat! Whatever! If there is such a push to make people be more healthy, then they should make a push to LOWER the price of healthy foods and RAISE the prices of un-healthy foods and snacks! I would sure be happy to buy cheap healthy foods instead of cheap, over processed, over preserved, crappy food!
WOW..... sorry to sound so soap box but as an unhappily, somewhat overweight woman I just wish I could actually practice what I KNOW is good for me, and not go broke doing it!
chachaheels
I also want to add that, even when we're being told to "eat healthy", we're also being shown a "hollywood standard."

Oprah Winfrey, for example, is the world's biggest Weight Loss Queen. Everyone marvels when they look at her slim figure, her perfect hair, her wonderful clothes, her lovely shoes. She can pull it off and she's got a show on TV, she's involved on a large scale in the publishing world, she's got all her charities going on, and she's always talking about working out.

Sure: if I had people who shopped for my food (hell! I know where the organic farmers are! I know what they've got! All I need now is someone who can devote a whole day to driving around and getting the stuff from each of those producers...every day, each week!) or spent the day planning out, preparing, and pre-packaging my food for me so that it would always be ready when I needed it...then I'd be 110 pounds, too. You need to have a lot of free time or it's equivalent: plenty of money to hire others to create what you need, plus the autonomy to say, "I'm going to take a lunch break now. See you all in a couple of hours".

The majority of celebrities are very well paid. They have no trouble staying thin, or insisting on a steady supply of freshly prepared, high quality food, every day, for every meal. The majority of the rest of the world, however, are not very well paid. The majority of North Americans are so poorly paid they are thousands of dollars in debt just trying to live to a certain standard. The idea of Slow Food, as a movement (what someone below referred to as a mediterranean diet) is a great idea--and it works really well in Italy, where it started (where all produce is locally grown to exceedingly high standards that NO ONE will compromise...it's sold fresh every day and purchased fresh every day; and people have 3 hours for lunch, then spend their evenings over long dinners with friends and family...the time schedule and lifestyle in the place of origin for this kind of food philosophy just isn't a reality here).

I know, at some point in the past, it was a possibility to eat this way (when I was a kid, our family and all my friends' families all had their own gardens, got together to can veggies and fruits when they harvested them so we'd have them all winter, they got together to buy good quality meat, in bulk, every year...and used portions of it to make preserved meats so, again, we'd have it available all winter...etc. etc. etc....but the amount of time needed, the amount of individual and communal effort needed was extraordinary because these people rarely needed to buy anything from the supermarket. There is no way to do this anymore even if the will and effort is there--time to do these things is very limited--so we're all dependent on the supermarket and all the politics involved in their food pricing, food quality, etc. etc. etc.

Ah...but I go on with my rant, Voodoo Princess! I'll stop hogging the thread now.
octobersky
Re: the "hollywood standard" and Oprah. When Sex and the City was still on the air, Oprah interviewed Sarah Jessica Parker after she had her baby. Oprah was prattling on about how "fabulous" she looked after having had said baby and how SJP should be so proud of herself for losing weight - blah, blah, blah. But SJP's reaction wasn't the typical Hollywood reaction of "oh yes aren't I fabulous." Instead she actually acknowledged that she has trainers, nannies, chefs and the like to assist her with this and that her weight loss isn't a fair comparison to the average mom. Oprah kept up with the congratulatory bs, but SJP stuck to her guns and wouldn't engage in the BS. She talked about her mother who was a single mom of 6 and that she didn't have the time or money to spend on herself. I really gained some respect for SJP for actually recognizing this and not backing down while Oprah pressed the issue. I thought it was refreshing and made her human - not some unobtainable level of perfection.

But yeah chachaheels you are right, it is expensive to eat healthy or organic. I know that when I go to my local mega-mart my bill is much less than when I shop at places like Wild Oats. The structure of American life is such that we don't have time to actually sit and enjoy our food - it's more how fast can I shovel food in my mouth before I have to be somewhere. Secondly as a nation we have shifted to more sedintary jobs than we did 100 or 75 years ago - you needed a large amount of calories to go toil in a field or factory. But you don't need much to sit in front of a computer and review reports or email. So just as our jobs have become more sedintary, our quality of food has declined greatly which has resulted in poor health for many people.

Anyhow I think I'm rambling...
katiebelle2882
really, its just that i love food, go out far too much, and bc of the fact that i used to be swimming so much, i could do all these things and not have to worry about gaining weight. this really is a new thing for me, like within the past 3 years or so. i dont hate myself, i am just not particularly happy with the way i look. that being said, there are SO many things i rather be doing than worrying about it. if i changed my diet, even without exercise (and stop drinking) i would lose a ton of weight. this is where the lazy part comes in, i just dont feel like it. so i guess you could say, i shouldnt complain. i really can't blame this on anyone other than myself, so i really dont want to. i have plenty of time to exercise, and eat right too, but i guess my priorities are in a different place. and trust me, even when and if i try to lose weight, i wont let it consume my life. i completely and totally agree that sure you may be thin, but for alot of people, the mental state that got them and keeps them there is ANYTYHING but healthy. they may be thin, but they sure as hell arent happy!
chachaheels
I remember SJP making statements like the ones you write about--I'd forgotten that she was on the Oprah show at the time. I do think it was quite a good idea for SJP to mention that, and to make a remark about her own mother and the sacrifices she made which enabled her to achieve her own dreams. There aren't enough celebrities out there who make this kind of statement: it's possible they simply wouldn't have known how to phrase such a "comeback" if Oprah'd made some kind of remark about their physical state on her show. SJP's always seemed to display an uncommon propensity for saying things very politely--she gets her politics across effectively, yet she does it in a way that doesn't make the other person feel offended. That doesn't mean Oprah didn't look like an ass, going on about how fabulously starved SJP looked post partum; it just means SJP was able to make a really strong point about their realities in a way which made Oprah quiet down, while their audience (full of women more like SJP's mom) wouldn't yet again be "put on notice" about their failures as human beings for being heavy.

The sedentary lifestyle? I'm not so sure Italians get much more work-out than we do. Most of them sit behind a computer all day, too. The difference? They start at 8am, work till noon or 1pm, then break for 3 hours. When they go back to work, they go back at 4pm and work till six or seven. Same amount of work time spent sitting and talking/typing/devising/whatever...but they have the autonomy to go home, make their own food, spend time with their families, take a nap, whatever...and return to work refreshed. Some of them still take short walks at night or go out and see what's happening in the neighbourhood; but a lot don't (they may spend the evening watching TV just like we do). It's true cities and towns in Italy, like the rest of Europe, are set up so that you really don't need to drive long distances to get from point A to point B (and many, many more people ride bikes cause it's safe to do so on their city streets). But it isn't really a lot more activity than what people do here.


katiebelle2882
i would also like to add though that the fact is, i managed to be in good shape when i had the same food supply, same amount of time to work out, etc etc, then i do now, so thats also why its no excuse. in fact, since i am working, i have far more money now. although, as you get older, it becomes harder and harder which is where eating healthier food comes in, which always helps. which of course, everyone is right in pointing out that our food supply sucks and its super expensive to eat organic. the fact of the matter is, i managed before so i should be able to manage now, esp. when it really comes down to eating less and exercising more, even if it is, chacha, as you said, 30 min a day.
yuefie
Well that's great for you Katiebelle, being healthy and happy with oneself is of the utmost importance. But perhaps your posts would be more appropriate in the Becoming Healthy or when did my bottom get so big? thread, seeing as this thread is more specifically about sizism, and less about dieting, excercize and lifestyle.
katiebelle2882
true. although, i have to say (more on topic perhaps) that the whole sizism thing really makes it hard for even the most confident person (not me!) to be ok with themselves. its like, just when you think that, ok, you know what, i do like myself, my mother tells me "you are getting heavy honey and its not that me or your father will ever stop loving you, we are just concerned about your health". its like, um ok. instant tears. whats up with that?


sorry for getting off topic, i had never even seen the other thread. i used to be in here alot cause of some crappy experiences i had had, so just sort of wandered back in here cause its been on my radar again recently. i think what chacha is saying relates, just bc people think its SOOOO easy to just lose weight, when really, for anumber of unseen and unacknowledged reasons, its not.
keenkitty
Its so bizarre I have a brother in law that weighs 200 pounds.

He eats enough for three people, eats horribly and has such high cholesterol his doc is threatening to put him on medication at 26!

Meanwhile. I am 28, have two spinal cord deformities and degenerative joint and disc disease, I eat 1200 of all vegan organic diet, drink tons of water take vitamins, do pilates and yoga and walk everyday but because I can't run or do heavy aerobics I am a size 14.

He actually tries to tell me that I should eat better and that I am fat and need to "pick up a set of dumbells"

WTF?!

I'm not supposed to life over 5 pounds routinly because of the crappy shape of my spine! But I have still managed to not gain an OUNCE after retiring from being a firefighter and running 5 miles a day!

My doctor tells people I am his poster child for taking care of oneself and this jerk tries to tell me "I could stand to be healtheir"

people who need to take better care of themselves seem to be the first ones to judge others. It s so annoying!

bustygirl
cholesterol meds at 26? That makes me feel better that I didn't have high cholesterol until 36. I've still changed my eating habits, but I felt like an idiot for having high chol this young.

And it's wierd, because I'm not fat. I'm not thin, --more old school curvy--big tits, ass, round limbs. But when someone looks at me, they don't think obese. And yet I have high blood pressure after the baby, and high cholesterol. So there you go. Bad health comes in all sizes.
chachaheels
Lots of people have "high cholesterol" yet they are fit and trim. Many even have active lives (outdoors types, for some reason, seem to be high in number in this group--the kind of people who rock climb, canoe, hike, travel, jog...you name it). And quite a stunning number of the supposedly unhealthy "overweight" have no problem whatsoever with cholesterol (if you go by what the serum levels are supposed to indicate).

Same goes for blood pressure....there are lots of people who look to be in the best shape and yet they suffer from high or low blood pressure, either of which is potentially dangerous. We've definitely been fed some whopping lies and assumptions about these chronic illnesses (and I believe less and less that the cholesterol issue is at all a problem, the more I read about the subject). I also know that there has never been any proven link between what is considered "overweight" and poor health, particularly where women are concerned. Yes, it can predispose you to some chronic illnesses, but you are very likely predisposed to these illnesses because of congenital illness and situation far more than you'd ever be by someone's arbitrary definition of "fat". Another reason why sizism is such a hateful bias.

Incidentally, I think you might have wanted to say that your 26 year old cousin is more than 200 pounds. A 200 pound 26 year old man, depending on his height or the size of his bones and frame, sounds quite "normal". But I agree: sizism definitely allows a lot of ironic people some kind of entitlement to make comments on how women around them look.
cstars124
I also find that people who are heavier than you tend to make crappy comments like that. My friend's sister (who is much heavier than I) said to me one time that my "problem area" was my stomach. Even though we weren't really on the topic and I didn't ask for her opinion.

Luckily for me, I guess, I go through phases where I love myself and my body even though I'm not a size 6. And even though my stomach may be my "problem area", it's soft and squishy and it makes me happy. smile.gif

And you know what else sucks? My doctor (my normal physican) last year was commenting on my weight and how I should lose weight and stuff, which isn't a bad idea (for health issues), but she didn't leave it at that. She was just saying all this stuff like how my periods are irregular (even though they always have been) because i'm heavy or while she was pressing on my stomach doing a routine pap, "alot of thinner people say they feel some pressure, but I'm sure YOU won't feel a thing."

It's sad when even Dr's who are supposed to be looking out for your best interest make you feel like you're not even a person with feelings and there's nothing else to you but being fat.
chachaheels
It's a big problem in the medical community, and there are many researchers who have published their own articles and research based on this bias against "fat" and "fat people" as patients that persists among doctors. Fortunately, more and more people are learning that good health is not just possible it's very likely at any size. Trouble is, many doctors still subject patients they see as overweight to poor treatment because of this bias: instead of giving a patient proper treatment for an illness, they will often tell the patient to lose weight and come back for treatment once they've done so. Bad medicine all around, not just because it denies a patient treatment, but also because it's based on faulty science. It is very much like practicing medicine based on a lie. In fact, that's what it is.

Remember, too, that the idea about fat and weight and danger applies to men, for whom fat stores on the body are not necessary (but they are necessary for women--for hormone balance and regulation and overall good health). When men gain weight it actually can be unhealthy for them; but not so for women.

I think that all of the "poor health" suffering that comes from being overweight, for women, comes out of the bias of sizism--all the discrimination, the pointed hatred and tactics to induce self-hatred, all the uninvited commentary and criticism from strangers...in short, being led to believe throughout your lifetime that you are ugly and undeserving of respect and somehow inferior as a being to others just takes it toll, causing hardships in every aspect of life. If anything will shorten your lifespan, it would be those factors primarily.
lilyblue
bump for the discussion in the Bust thread in Media Whores.

I wanted to discuss the whole "good" fat people vs. the "bad" fat people. it seems that the only way you can receive any kind of compassion or relatively decent treatment in this culture as a fat person is to be constantly apologizing for your size. it's like you can't just choose to be fat for whatever reason. you always have to be going on about how you eat right and exercise to get any kind of remotely respectable treatment.

i've been wondering why people apply moral judgments to fat people. i think it's about aesthetics, the fears surrounding consumerism and good old fashion puritanism. in the us, if you are at all concerned about the environment, consumerism and the state of the world, being fat is seen as indulgent.
chachaheels
QUOTE
I've been wondering why people apply moral judgments to fat people. i think it's about aesthetics, the fears surrounding consumerism and good old fashion puritanism. in the us, if you are at all concerned about the environment, consumerism and the state of the world, being fat is seen as indulgent.


I don't think people are condemned in this society for being "indulgent" in any way--the height of moral superiority in our culture is extreme thinness, extreme indulgence in material goods--including having access to many of the drugs and "services" which create extreme thinness. If you've got the money and power to alter your appearance and maintain the "beauty ideal", then you are morally superior.

If you're fat, or not living in the right area, or you're the wrong colour, or you're not wealthy and obviously consuming all the material goodsconspicuously, then you're probably poor, too; and there is a very strong belief you simply don't cut it morally.

It's a hatred, pure and simple. The same kind used in racism and sexism, but at least we "know" it's not smart to be caught out as racist or sexist. Sizism, on the other hand, is sanctioned.
thereshegoes
i think so many men still consider women to be objects in the abstract---unless they know you well as a person, you're just there for them to rate and evaluate. even the "nice" guys still place their opinion about any given woman's looks into any given conversation.

in this context, women who are fat are social outlaws who dare to deprive them of their eye candy, who choose to enjoy food more than they may enjoy male gaze approval. for this, they must be shamed.

to this day, i am still blown away by how many women i know won't eat rice so that they will conform to this paradigm. or salad dressing.


sorry if i seem bitter, this whole thing really pisses me off.
lilyblue
QUOTE(chachaheels @ Apr 9 2007, 09:39 AM) *
I don't think people are condemned in this society for being "indulgent" in any way--the height of moral superiority in our culture is extreme thinness, extreme indulgence in material goods--including having access to many of the drugs and "services" which create extreme thinness. If you've got the money and power to alter your appearance and maintain the "beauty ideal", then you are morally superior.

If you're fat, or not living in the right area, or you're the wrong colour, or you're not wealthy and obviously consuming all the material goodsconspicuously, then you're probably poor, too; and there is a very strong belief you simply don't cut it morally.

It's a hatred, pure and simple. The same kind used in racism and sexism, but at least we "know" it's not smart to be caught out as racist or sexist. Sizism, on the other hand, is sanctioned.



Yea, I can see that. I wasn't very clear. I was thinking of the more "liberal minded" folks. I was trying to figure it out, how some folks can be seemingly against all other isms yet can still be sizist. But I agree that overall, it's just hatred and that's what makes me sad. Like we can dehumanize someone for being visably different.

thereshegoes, i don't think you are bitter. i think you are right. heck, i'm pissed because i just realized that the fashion industry truly hates women.

also, the treatment of fat women is there to show skinny women what happens whey they step out of line. it pisses me off.
nickclick
QUOTE(lilyblue @ Apr 11 2007, 12:12 AM) *
Yea, I can see that. I wasn't very clear. I was thinking of the more "liberal minded" folks. I was trying to figure it out, how some folks can be seemingly against all other isms yet can still be sizist. But I agree that overall, it's just hatred and that's what makes me sad. Like we can dehumanize someone for being visably different.

know whatcha mean; i sometimes feel looked down-upon by friends who are vegetarian, or only eat organic, or don't shop at walmart, because i'm somewhat overweight and sometimes like the taco bell; like i'm overindulging in some american lifestyle of excess. (just because i sometimes indulge, doesn't mean i over-indulge.) and not being skinny is my visable 'punishment.'

ever read interviews with models or thin actresses who say they love a big steak dinner, or never say no to a cheeseburger? we think they're cool, right? i can't imagine an article about an overweight woman celebrating her love of cheeseburgers. so if you love to eat and are lucky enough to metabolize at a quick rate, or to work out 8 hours a day, then it's alright.
LoveMyPugs
Fat people just need to come to terms with being fat and be happy with themselves and not rip on skinny people and vice versa. I’m 260 and a size 24 myself. My mister is 300 and a size 50. Occasionally I get on a fried and fast food kick and it really does physically bring me down and make me groggy so I might “diet” for a few weeks. This usually involves eating more salads, vegetables and what not and avoiding the fried foods for a while. I don’t diet because I don’t like the way I look; I diet because I want to be nicer to my body. I think I look fine. I don’t understand why fat people can’t all be this way. Someone else said that being fat is about psychology, genetics and the culture you were raised in. This is so true and I know that because of these things that it is very hard for me to loose weight. I’m not going to fight it anymore. I have confidence in myself and that’s that. I have nothing against skinny people. Anytime I rip on a skinny person it’s because they ask for it. Like the lady on the plane that gave the heavy sister shit for taking up two seats. I would have punched her in the fucking face. They would have had to drag my mom, sister and me off of her. My mom is getting a little rounder as she gets older but I told her that she should. She works hard and should enjoy life, if she wants to eat three slices of pizza instead of two then whatever. My sister is tall and skinny and I love her so much. She has her fatty spots and I grab then with my fingers cause it makes her laugh. She grabs full fists of my stomach in return and we just laugh. She tells me how beautiful I am and how jealous of my large breasts she is. I tell her how beautiful she is and how jealous of her flat little stomach I am. Would either of us switch bodies if we could? NO WAY! I didn’t always feel this way but I’ve just come to terms with my own body and I’m going to be happy in this world and fuck up anyone that gets in my way. I find all shapes attractive. I do worry about emaciated and morbidly obese people because it opens them up for health issues. I don’t think that just because you are really skinny that you have an eating disorder. I have a few very skinny friends that eat more then me in one sitting. They just have the metabolism and genetics to process it all and stay thin. The sizism needs to stop though. It’s just awful to be so mean and hateful. It makes me sad for my future children.
thereshegoes
wow pugs, it's really great that that's where you're at, i wish i had that level of acceptance. does dating a man-of-size make it easier?

i think i would be less bitter if i had more self-acceptance. i really feel a lot of my anger is rebellion against self-hating crap.
LoveMyPugs
I've dated guys who were very thin. I didn't like it but they all seemed fine with it. My mister is soooo sexy. Uh, he's in bed right now and just thinking of him is making me tempted to go jump him mid sleep. I have to admit that, yes, being with a big guy has helped me accept myself. He is VERY comfortable in his own skin. So is the rest of his family. They are all large people and they just don't care. Whenever I say, "We should try to get in shape." He replies, "I am a shape. I'm round." Cracks me up. I'm miserable when I'm dieting hardcore in an attempt to loose weight. That's why I don't "diet" anymore. I just follow what my body tells me. When I feel weighed down and groggy I try to eat better. I want to say so much more but I'm tired and getting ready for bed. I'll try to post more tomorrow.

Goodnight
nickclick
i agree pugs, self-acceptance leads to acceptance by all. revolution doesn't start from the outside! imagine if kristie alley said 'fuck you' to all those tabloids demonizing of her weight gain? used the PR and started a fat-positive magazine or something? or at least still tried to get roles? no, she loses weight and rips up old 'fat' photos in those jenny craig ads, as if in shame.

unfortunately, i'm not where you are though, just yet.
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