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karategrrl
Hey there, I'm very glad to see this forum. I can totally relate to the post below, about how things are more complicated with men. Epinephrine, glad to see you sharing your thoughts here.

As for labels, I consider myself to be bi though more toward the hetero end of the spectrum. The deciding moment for me was not anything I'd done with my body with another woman, but the fact that I had FEELINGS for someone--I loved her.

Sexuality and how each of us defines it for ourself is a very fluid (may change through our lifetime) and quite personal thing.
epinephrine
Not sure where else to post this, but I just found out I'm moving to China in 6 weeks and I have no idea what to expect on the queer front. Will I have to jump back into the closet and lock the door, or what? Will I get kicked out of school or beaten up or sent back home if people find out I'm gay? Or will they think I've just got some Western disease and stop associating with me? If they ask personal questions that I can't answer without revealing that I'm gay, should I just avoid answering them? I can use my instincts for that stuff over here, but I'm going to be in a completely different culture and I don't have a clue what to expect.
stargazer
epi, I tend to be a nerd about things so I would probably suggest to research online and/or see if you can start networking with others about China and the Queer community. I did find this article about Lesbian culture in China. I couldn't find the author's contact information. Is there a queer student group at the university where you will be studying in China for support??
epinephrine
Thanks Stargazer, great article! I'll have to go through the links on there, too. I've done a bunch of searches for queer resources and gay bars and such and haven't come up with much. I'd love to be able to find some queers and allies on campus, but China's three N policy means that there are pretty much no queer groups. Google didn't turn up anything with the words "Southwest University," "gay," and "lesbian." I've heard China's really not too keen on social groups and public gatherings of any kind. I'll have to see if I can find time to visit a gay bar while I'm there and meet some people with inside knowledge.
momo
Hi Epi, I'm delurking to say that after reading the article Stargazer posted, I just googled "lala" and "China" and got lots of hits. I didn't get too deep into it, but this one made it sound like there are some localized groups:
http://www.globalfundforwomen.org/be-inspi...e-lala-alliance

Maybe you could find one of those and connect with people about some of your questions.
epinephrine
Why didn't I think of that? Thanks, Momo. Still not finding anything for Chongqing, which is the city I'm moving to, but I'll probably be travelling to Beijing and Shanghai for school trips and holidays, so maybe I'll check out the lala scene while I'm there!
epinephrine
500th post! Awright!

Anyway, I originally came in here to muse over bisexuality a bit. I wrote a couple of posts in here recently about some conflicting feelings I have when it comes to sleeping with guys; I've since hooked up with one of my guy friends and...I dunno, I still don't really know how to define my sexuality. The guy (let's call him R) is a really good friend whom I've known for years. I feel really safe with him, and I didn't have any doubts or hesitation when we hooked up. Not this time, anyway. We'd actually slept together before, years ago when we first became friends, and I remember being quite hesitant then. But this last time, I was kind of shocked at how comfortable I felt. I suppose alcohol could have been a factor, but my alcohol-influenced sexual encounters in the past certainly weren't without doubts.

I dunno. I don't know what's bothering me. I guess it just throws me off that, although I'm attracted to both men and women, the feelings I have for them aren't quite the same. It's confusing. The different kinds of attraction kind of bounce off each other sometimes and I feel like they just won't hold still - I never know what I'm going to be attracted to. well...not unless it's cute, intelligent, and covered in tattoos. I know exactly where I stand with anyone who fits that description, male or female! But the rest of the time, I feel like I'm always trying to evaluate how attracted I am to people and what I'm attracted to about them, which leads to me evaluating the trends in my sexuality, comparing them, getting confused when I find contradictions, etc...

Even though we've slept together a bunch of times, R still seems to think of me as a lesbian. I just can't identify my sexuality beyond what's right in front of me. I don't know why I even want to. I guess that fluidity gets a little exhausting sometimes. Although rigidity would exhaust me ten times more.
epinephrine
Oh, and I forgot to add that I'm not the only queer in China! There's a trans girl in my dorm and I've made friends with a boy who I'm certain is gay, although I'm not sure what his status is closet-wise. He's very effeminate, majors in arts but wants to get into design, and has lots of girl friends but no girlfriend. He's so adorable. The other night we were discussing music and, in his heavily accented English, he said he likes Justin Timberlake because "his voice is so sexy." Awwwww....

If I can't find the queer scene here I might just hop a train to Chengdu some weekend and see what's happening over there. Apparently they have a couple of gay clubs there. I don't want my rainbow to fade!
karategrrl
QUOTE(epinephrine @ Sep 26 2010, 02:30 PM) *
I just can't identify my sexuality beyond what's right in front of me. I don't know why I even want to. I guess that fluidity gets a little exhausting sometimes. Although rigidity would exhaust me ten times more.

Hmmm... interesting post. I was wondering why you'd want to define your sexuality, since it is very fluid but YES, I can relate to that fluidity itself being exhausting! What worked for me (and I'm sharing since maybe it will work for you???) is to think of myself as someone whose "capacity to love is so great that gender is not an issue." (For some people, age is not an issue, or race, religion, etc. ...for me, gender isn't even an issue.) I think we all do tend to trip over the terms "bisexual," "gay," lesbian," etc. The terms are very charged for a lot of people and can carry all sorts of connotations that may or may not exist.
epinephrine
Karategrrl, that's generally my take on it, too; I prefer to reject all labels and tell people gender's just not a part of my criteria. But, when I really think about it, it's not completely accurate to say that gender is not an issue, because it does affect the way I relate to people. Gender politics and paradigms and all that sociocultural baggage, plus the basic biological differences that affect my interaction with people on a physical and hormonal level...I feel like sometimes those things conflict with my concept of being open to any gender, and with my self-concept as a bisexual person, because to a certain extent gender will influence my attractions. And, of course, being the A-type, left-brained, logic-obsessed person that I am, that inconsistency just makes me itch.

epinephrine
So, apparently, I'm living in the lesbian capital of China. Most of the girls here are ultra feminine - they all wear cute dresses and high heels all the time - but I've also been seeing a large number of girls looking super butch in boy clothes and buzzcuts. They're so petite and adorable with their baggy jeans and androgynous Asian features, both pretty and handsome. It's also really common for girls to hold hands or link arms when they're out in public, so that doesn't mean much, but occasionally I see one of these really tomboyish girls holding hands with a really feminine girl, and I can't help but wonder. Hearing what I've heard about Chinese society, I assumed that the tomboy thing was just a different kind of conformity and that most of these girls were probably not living a lesbian lifestyle, letting alone living it so publicly. But I was hanging out with a new friend yesterday (introduced to me by my cute gay boy) and we were both watching as a really butch-looking girl walked past us, and my friend turned around and asked me if I knew about 同性恋, or gays. I told her of course, in the west we have lots, and she started asking me questions about whether it's really as free over there as she's heard - if they're accepted by society, if they're really allowed to get married, etc. When I told her that in my country gays are free to live as they please and my aunt is married to a woman, she sighed and said she really wanted to move to Canada. I felt weird asking if she was gay, but that sounds like a pretty clear hint to me. Then I asked her about the butch girls and she told me that they are, in fact, lesbians, and then she said that Chongqing is the lesbian capital of China. So, not only did I unwittingly stumble upon a city with large lesbian subculture, I may actually have a lesbian friend here!

Oh, and I also met a super cute girl from my school while climbing a nearby mountain on the weekend and we exchanged numbers and plan to meet up soon. She kept holding my hand and linking arms with me when we were walking the wider parts of the trail. I doubt she's gay, but it totally gave me butterflies when she held my hand.
epinephrine
Jeez, it's lonely in here...where my queer Busties at?!

So I asked my friend if she ever goes to the gay bar and she told me she's always wanted to go but couldn't find anyone to go with her, so I looked up a couple bars and this weekend she and I are gonna go check out Chongqing's gay nightlife! All the gay bars we looked up were in another district about an hour away, but it'll be worth the trip - even if the bar sucks, it'll still be an adventure. Stoked!
koffeewitch
I hit ya back in the travel thread...I'm crazy-fascinated with China, so I've definitely been following all your posts. Actually, you even came up in conversation this morning when I was discussing the Chinese government's attitude toward the '94 film "To Live". I told Mr. Koffeewitch about your discovery of the lesbian capital of China.
KeraBear
Hi everybody, I have pretty much spent most of time here in the small boobie forums (ahh, my great insecurity!), so some of you may not know me very well. I am a senior in high school and I am also pretty sure I am bisexual. This is the right place for that, right? Over the past year, I have been having sexual encounters with a girl two years younger than me. It started out of sheer curiosity and experimenting (I wonder what an actual pair of boobs feel like? LOL) and has slowly escalated beyond that. I am also in a fairly serious relationship with my BF. But he does not know that I have been seeing this girl on the side. It's not often, just every now and then. He also does not know about my bisexuality. My question is am I under any sort of obligation to tell my BF about getting together with this girl? It is not like I am emotionally involved with her. More like just experimenting really and it is not frequent. I struggle with this. I want to tell him about my attraction to other girls, but every time i get close, I chicken out.

And about my bissexual side, I have told precious few people about this and I am sort of scared to let anybody in about this side of me. I am in high school and you know how that can be. unsure.gif Who should I choose to let in?

Thanks!
edytharceo
"I just can't identify my sexuality beyond what's right in front of me. I don't know why I even want to. I guess that fluidity gets a little exhausting sometimes. Although rigidity would exhaust me ten times more."

Great post, why that you can't identify your sexuality? As for me as long as you have the capacity to love gender is not an issue at all.
Persiflager
Hey KeraBear! (ooh, and belated happy birthday!)

If you and your boyfriend are dating exclusively, then you are cheating on him when you see this girl. Lack of emotional involvement notwithstanding, I don't imagine he'd take it very well.

On the other hand.... I don't imagine coming out in high school is very easy, and it's the sort of thing that would get around quickly.

Does 'senior' mean that this is your last year? If so, do you think you and your BF will stay together when you go off to college? If you're all going to go your separate ways, I'd be tempted to stay quiet for now (especially as your lady friend has two more years of high school to get through).
KeraBear
QUOTE(Persiflager @ Oct 27 2010, 01:37 AM) *
Hey KeraBear! (ooh, and belated happy birthday!)

If you and your boyfriend are dating exclusively, then you are cheating on him when you see this girl. Lack of emotional involvement notwithstanding, I don't imagine he'd take it very well.

On the other hand.... I don't imagine coming out in high school is very easy, and it's the sort of thing that would get around quickly.

Does 'senior' mean that this is your last year? If so, do you think you and your BF will stay together when you go off to college? If you're all going to go your separate ways, I'd be tempted to stay quiet for now (especially as your lady friend has two more years of high school to get through).


Thanks, Persiflager!

Yep, this is my last year of high school! YAY! Yea, my BF and i are sort of serious, but who knows what might happen once high school ends? I mean i hope we are still together. We are exclusive at the moment. I struggle with this sometimes because, I mean, if it were another guy i was doing this with I would absolutely consider it cheating you know? But this feels like... more like a innocent "play" with a girlfriend. I am just trying to come to grips with my sexuality. This is all so confusing!!! Just posting this here in the forums is a huge step for me.

And yeah, my lady friend has two more years of high school, you are right about that and I have certainly thought about that for sure...
Persiflager
Ah, ok. Sorry if I sounded harsh!

Take your time figuring all this out, and don't feel that you have to come out to anyone until you feel 100% ready. If you do want to talk to your BF about being attracted to girls (in general), be prepared for the fact he he might pick up on what you're not saying, and guess what's been going on.

That, or he might be all 'Hurr, hurr, can I watch?'.
KeraBear
QUOTE(Persiflager @ Oct 27 2010, 10:56 AM) *
Ah, ok. Sorry if I sounded harsh!

Take your time figuring all this out, and don't feel that you have to come out to anyone until you feel 100% ready. If you do want to talk to your BF about being attracted to girls (in general), be prepared for the fact he he might pick up on what you're not saying, and guess what's been going on.

That, or he might be all 'Hurr, hurr, can I watch?'.


Oh no!! You didn't sound harsh. I apologize if i made it sound like I thought you were being harsh! High school drama, don't you know? smile.gif

I am strongly leaning towards just letting him know and then letting the chips fall where they may, because i feel like i am keeping this great big secret from him. And actually... I wouldn't put that "can I watch" reaction past him. Ha ha! wink.gif

As for high school, I think I will try to keep it down on the down low... because it is high school after all, and you know how that is. Plus i have to think about my lady friend, like you said. Thanks, you've been helpful!
edytharceo
As for me as long as you have the capacity to love and you what you are doing gender is not an issue at all.

-------------
Dub Turbo Beat Maker Software
epinephrine
No fucking way. Guess who one of my matches was on Plenty of Fish this week? ...none other than A, the ex-friend who my ex-girlfriend rebounded on me with (or left me for, if you consider the fact that it was clearly premeditated). I already knew they'd broken up, but I don't know when or what the circumstances were. I just know that it must have been ugly, because they're not even friends on Facebook anymore (yes, I checked. I know. So bad). It's a shame. If it weren't for the infamous events of '08, I would totally date her. I'd had a crush on her for years already when all that shit went down.

Anyway, I did a double take when I saw it and had a good laugh, and then a thorough look at her profile. Which turned out to be kind of lame and poorly written.

I did, however, find another girl on PoF who seems like someone I could really get along with. Smart, articulate, down-to-earth, plenty of common interests. Actually, a friend who knew her (and had her first girl-girl kiss with her wayyy back in the day) noticed her on the site and referred me to her, thinking she would be a good match for me. This is the same friend who introduced me to PoF in the first place and then gave up in disgust and deleted her profile a few weeks later, whose current serious girlfriend is a girl who later messaged me on PoF and met me for the first time at my debauched going away party the night before I left for China, where she also met my friend, after which they apparently fell passionately in love. Ships in the night, or what?

Ah, lesbians.
auralpoison
Two things: 1) I am slightly rejoicing at your ex's break up even though it's not very nice of me. She was a shit & needs to be single until she's not a shit anymore. 2) I am ascairt of lesbian drama because that stuff can get ka-ray-zee ba-nan-as!
epinephrine
Ok, I actually have more (unreliable, but entirely plausible) information on them than I originally let on - my friend heard from her friend who's J's friend that J had left A for someone else, or some such drama. She actually told me this at my going away party six months ago, so it's quite old news. I vaguely remember drunkenly posting about it, actually. I am also taking a vindictive pleasure in their breakup, although it's far more likely that A was the one who got hurt.
Persiflager
Ha! J is a loser!

What about A though? Given a bit more time, might she actually be worth a whirl? Sounds like she too got screwed over by J.
epinephrine
Isn't dating your ex's exes off-limits or something? Too much intimate cross-history for a healthy relationship? I dunno, it just seems like something that should only happen on the L-Word. Not that I'm not tempted. I've always thought that A was a total babe, and we always got along really well before. She actually viewed my profile today - there's a good chance that she didn't even realize who I was, because the last time she saw me I still had my dreads. It would be too funny if she actually messaged me.

I don't have a clue how two people with history like ours would go about building a friendship again, but I'm not going to block her or ignore her if she contacts me or anything. Then again, I'm not going to make the first move, either. Whatever.
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