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demoness
"We are all guilty of sin but we are all not forgiven." But why would the lord preach forgiveness if he wont forgive us? I believe if your heart is in the right place, you shall be granted forgiveness. Hardly anyone is "without sin". So that being said, i believe that god will never shun you away or forsake you no matter how bad or fallen. I mean religion is so taboo these days that if you actually have any spirituality youre labelled religious. I hardly consider myself religous at all. Fallen is more like it. I have a very objective mind when it comes to religion. I just cant "blindly" believe. I feel, rather. Phew. Im glad i got that off my chest, considering ive a hard time discussing religion. Seriously its such a touchy subject.:-)
alligator
Demoness - don't expect it to make sense. The whole thing is essentially irrational.
demoness
I know ...just thought id add my 2 cents. Plus, i thought it'd be a good idea if i got over my sensitivity when it comes to discussing touchy topics such as religion.
smurfin
o/t
Demoness, I don't know if you know/if you intended it like this, but you're email address and (possibly) your name are in your profile.
demoness
hello smurfin, thanks for telling me. I thought my profile was confidential. Doesnt matter though. Ive edited it. Plus, i dont think i'll be getting any hate mail from any busties. If anything you all are some of the sweetest warmest people ive come across. :-)
smurfin
Demoness, I don't think you'll be getting hate mail from busties either. It's the trolls you want to be wary of.
nohope
Meet the Shock Troops of the Christian Youth
Battle Cry for Theocracy!

by Sunsara Taylor

May 16, 2006

If you've been waiting until the Christian fascist movement started filling stadiums with young people and hyping them up to do battle in "God's army" to get alarmed, wait no longer.

In recent weeks, Battle Cry, a Christian fundamentalist youth movement, has attracted more than 25,000 to mega-rally rock concerts in San Francisco and Detroit and this weekend they plan to fill Wachovia Stadium in Philadelphia.

They claim their religion and values are under attack but, amidst spectacular lightshows, hummers, Navy Seals, and military imagery on stage, it is Battle Cry that has declared war on everyone else! Their leader, Ron Luce, insists: "This is war. And Jesus invites us to get into the action, telling us that the violent--the 'forceful' ones--will lay hold of the kingdom."


http://www.zmag.org/content/showarticle.cfm?SectionID=72&ItemID=10275
http://www.battlecry.com/
smurfin
I'm sorry nohope, but I can't take that seriously. Just as I can't take Slipknot or the lyrics of Eminem seriously.

I strongly feel those 25K people came for the spectacle, the music, for the opportunity to shock more than for the actual wish to go to battle for christianity.
snafooey
It's not that far-fetched. There's a definite history of Christian militia movements in the U.S.

Btw, did anyone see this week's Savage Love: The American Taliban's War on Birth Control?

http://www.villagevoice.com/people/0620,savage,73228,24.html

(sorry, no cleaned-up link b/c of all the commas)

Scroll to the end (though he mentions off the top that statistic that half of the people who take virginity pledges end up losing it within the year).
alligator
HALF of them? Really?

Hell, it's worth a try.

"I pledge to never have sex again."

50%, here I come...

nohope
Ron Luce's Holy War

Next up on the agenda—woman bashing. If you think the world needs an alternative to the worst misogynist heavy metal or hip-hop, but you still want to see women degraded, insulted, and dehumanized, Luce has got just the thing for you.

http://www.zmag.org/content/showarticle.cfm?SectionID=72&ItemID=10320
nereid
That's more money for the cause (you dumbass)
lunia666
Hope am posting this in the right place ??

Do you feel spirituality/religion is important for long term couples

This has become an issue with me and BF over the last few months. He doesn't go to church regularly but he prays before every meal. Which I don't have any issues with. He asked me to start praying with him and poss find a local church to attend. Here's where the problem is I really don't know if I believe maybe there is a higher power who knows. I wasn't raised to believe anything my father is a lapsed catholic. Personal I always thought if I every did join a church it would be the catholic church but I also have issues with the catholic church. In fact I have issues with church's all together.I do feel religion is important for couples and raising kids. Where I fit in I have no clue. Your thought are welcomed:)
nohope
For me it's not a question of religion, as much as a question of basic assumptions of how dose my partner make decisions. That for me is a deal breaker, primarily because for me a relationship is a business proposition. If my partner makes bad decisions that will affect my life...

So therefore belief with out evidence for me is out. I have no problem with someone praying so long as they understand that prayer does not work and that they are just fooling themselves.

Which is ok in my book because our mental state can create "a self fulfilling prophecy." If we can psych our selves out in a negative way, we can do the same in a positive way.

We can also get benefits from controlling our thoughts and minds. i.e. meditation, and for some people that is called prayer.

So I am not against using psychological tricks in order to gain benefits....
But when that crosses the line from purposeful self-delusion to create a potential benefit, to straight out delusion beyond reason and evidence.... well that is going to be trouble...

And I suggest that everyone can benefit from steering clear both of living a life full of superstitions and of living with other people’s superstitious lives. Because when people hold superstitions, then no amount of reason can save them from making poor decisions based on bad information, which is beyond challenge.

There is not greater cause of evil in this world in my opinion than bad information held as an article of faith.
faerietails2
You're a jackass.
konphusion26
Spirituality and faith are very important to me in a relationship/marriage. Or any relationship for that matter. Every relationship has to be built on some type of foundation or it wont stand. What better foundation than love-- Love comes from God, and according to scripture God IS love. He Loves US unconditionally. Right???

I refused to marry or date anyone who was not of the same faith. Thats just me. I'm not so much "religious" or with "traditions"... because people have put their own spin on things and have really made a mess of it, left God out of it. I am a Christian, I'm not perfect but I stand on my faith in Christ. That is how i will raise my children. My sister and I have had the "i dont know where I fit in" discussion and she's really confused about what to believe. I can't say that I blame her. She doesn't "identify" with one religion or another but says she believes in God. I'm not sure if its because she doesnt want to be held accountable for what she's done in her life or what.... Her husband, is non-practicing Muslim. I don't know how that works cuz she's not muslim. They were married in a civil ceremony (but so was I) . Hers was non-religious, while we incorporated our Christian faith. I can't imagine my marriage or my relationship not being based on and led by our faith in God/Christ. We couldn't sustain this thing without Him. As for me and my house, we will serve the Lord. I feel bad for their kids because the parents themselves are so confused, how will they guide their children???

But anyway, I basically told her, the only information I can give you is based on what I've learned and believe through my studies of the Bible, and my belief in who Jesus Christ is. Some might say that would be biased information. But FOR ME it is truth. So I let her know, in order to find what you're looking for, you have to have a personal relationship with God and find out the truth for yourself. I can only tell you what I believe to be true based on the Bible. I'm sure I'll get lots of lovely responses about this, but thats fine. I stand firm on my beliefs.
faerietails2
I'm a devout atheist, and ideally i'd love to settle down with someone who's a feminist atheist vegetarian trekkie and all that jazz. lol

But that being said, so long as i'm not pushed into going to church, or warned of eternal damnation (or, if i do ever decide to marry, i'm not pushed to have a church wedding), or threatened with a church funeral when i die, i'd be totally cool with marrying someone who's religious. And i don't want kids, but if i DID by some awful twist end up with kids, i probably wouldn't mind them being raised in my husband/partner's faith, either, if it was that important to my partner. (Again, so long as I'm not gonna be bothered to come to church with them every week and stuff. Because that's just not gonna happen).

I think as long as my partner could respect my boundaries and beliefs, I'd be more than happy to respect his.
konphusion26
QUOTE(faerietails2 @ Jan 15 2008, 02:46 PM) *
I'm a devout atheist, and ideally i'd love to settle down with someone who's a feminist atheist vegetarian trekkie and all that jazz. lol

But that being said, so long as i'm not pushed into going to church, or warned of eternal damnation (or, if i do ever decide to marry, i'm not pushed to have a church wedding), or threatened with a church funeral when i die, i'd be totally cool with marrying someone who's religious. And i don't want kids, but if i DID by some awful twist end up with kids, i probably wouldn't mind them being raised in my husband/partner's faith, either, if it was that important to my partner. (Again, so long as I'm not gonna be bothered to come to church with them every week and stuff. Because that's just not gonna happen).

I think as long as my partner could respect my boundaries and beliefs, I'd be more than happy to respect his.

LOL I see. I don't think anyone should try to force their beliefs on anyone. But, I think faith is important. I've never known any atheists, I really dont understand what thats all about. I personally can't function without God. Anyone care to enlighten me? I respect your beliefs, even though I dont share them. Let chat. Like is there a specific reason one decides to be an atheist? Help me out here.
nickclick
QUOTE(konphusion26 @ Jan 15 2008, 03:42 PM) *
LOL I see. I don't think anyone should try to force their beliefs on anyone. But, I think faith is important. I've never known any atheists, I really dont understand what thats all about. I personally can't function without God. Anyone care to enlighten me? I respect your beliefs, even though I dont share them. Let chat. Like is there a specific reason one decides to be an atheist? Help me out here.

as an atheist, or agnostic, or whatever i am, i don't think i ever decided to be an atheist. it's not a group i joined. there's not much to learn about. there's no rules to follow; no book to tell me what to do. which is exactly the point. i just never found the need for any religion. yeah, i have questions, and i don't think science can answer everything. but i'm okay with that.
pepper
meh, religion has always been a pain in the ass to me. i'm spiritual, sure, but it's freaking private, hello. i certainly don't want anyone dictating to me what i am supposed to believe. and no WAY do i want anyone putting religion on my kids. that's up to them to decide when they're old enough to do so for themselves. i mean, at that age they are so gullible they think a bunny brings them chocolate at easter!
religion always seemed to me like people so terrified of the unknown that they had to make up a grandoise story to explain everything to make them feel safe. i think when you die, that's it. you're dead and gone. that's just way too scary for most people. they'd like to think that this isn't it instead of living it to the fullest.
that's my take anyhow. i'm just not into it. there is no room in my life for religion.
konphusion26
I'm not hatin ladies...just wanted some clarity on the issue. Thanks for your respectful responses.
kittenb
QUOTE(nohope @ Jan 13 2008, 10:31 PM) *
So therefore belief with out evidence for me is out. I have no problem with someone praying so long as they understand that prayer does not work and that they are just fooling themselves.

And I suggest that everyone can benefit from steering clear both of living a life full of superstitions and of living with other people’s superstitious lives. Because when people hold superstitions, then no amount of reason can save them from making poor decisions based on bad information, which is beyond challenge.

There is not greater cause of evil in this world in my opinion than bad information held as an article of faith.


See I have met more than one militant atheist in my life and I just find them to be every bit and annoying and arrogent as every other fundemental believer of any religion (please not I said militant, not just atheist.) It seems that it is not enough for an atheist to not have a beleif system. Anyone who does have one is just stupid and uneducated.

How is your judgement any better for this planet than someone who holds a literal interpretation of the Bible? All your are really saying is "I'm right, your wrong, and further more you are dumb if you disagree." Where is the enlightenment in this view?
pepper
hey, no disrespect intended. those are just my thoughts and feelings as requested.

and kitten, word. militant anything is like same shit, different pile as far as i'm concerned. some wiggle room either way is reasonable.

prayer works, imho, to alter your reality or at least your perception of it which amounts to the same thing. whether that's externalized prayer to a god/dess, earth elements, ancestors or internalized prayer/meditation, the end result can be profound. the power of the mind is incredible and "belief" certainly does "work".
crazyoldcatlady
QUOTE
LOL I see. I don't think anyone should try to force their beliefs on anyone. But, I think faith is important. I've never known any atheists, I really dont understand what thats all about. I personally can't function without God.


what specifically about being religious or having god in your life makes you function better? and i'm completely *not* being sarcastic, i'm curious. because for me, i feel like that's a bit of a one-sided relationship. what does god DO, personally?

once again, not being snarky. genuinely curious.
nickclick
no hatin' here either, kon smile.gif

i agree pepper, all religion is all make-believe. which is why i'm okay when someone has a 'belief' and that works for them. i guess my biggest problem with religion is when i'm told what i'm supposed to believe. and, you know, when wars and shit are started over the same. related is the guilt and shame and fear involved in many religions.

i'd like to believe my dead aunt jeanette is somehow still in my life. in fact, i talk to her a lot. i don't think she's in heaven with clouds and angels, and i don't think she was reincarnated as my little cousin either. but sometimes i do feel her around, and i do feel like she helps me. and maybe it's all in my head, but if it makes me feel better, that's good enough for me.
konphusion26
You know ladies, it gives me great joy to answer your questions. Not to persuade you, not to preach to you. To let you know that I cannot function without God because He loves me no matter what I do. Even if I didnt love Him back. He's a Father to me, where my birth father has failed me. He convicts me/scolds me when I do wrong, but I know that I can ask him for forgiveness and truly believe that He's forgiven me. I've done alot of crap in my life that I'm ashamed of, but through my faith in Christ, its been forgotten. I'm so thankful for that.

He comforts me when I'm in pain. This is the hope that I cling to each and every breath that I take. Having relationship with my heavenly father God has kept me from going COMPLETELY insane or living in fear in this jacked up word we live in. Yes I come on the board and rant and rave about certain things... just because I want to, I enjoy sharing my thoughts and my life. I go through hell like everyone else. However, I know what God has brought me through already, and I know it was not by my own strength or power. I know what He is working out for me right now, I just haven't seen it yet. In a nutshell, that is the definition of faith according to scripture.

When the hard times come or when I'm hurting, it would be easy for me to turn my back on God or my belief in him. I could never do that though because He has never let me down. I hold on to the faith that He will make everything alright; And he comes through every time. Thats how I function girls... Some might say its all made up or fiction or the bible has been misconstrued or what not... but i know what I feel in my heart everytime I pray or every time I ask God to make something happen and he hears me. Or every moment I ask Him for protection and I am protected. So I owe Him my life because He has saved me, healed me and restored me. For me that is so powerful... Jesus died for ME. That is the ultimate love man. And I can't deny who He is in my life. I give Him all the glory.
faerietails2
Personally, I was raised Catholic, and it absolutely horrifies everyone in my family that I'm an atheist (as a matter of fact, it's one of the reasons I'm not speaking to my dad right now). But I just don't believe in a higher power, and I don't think I ever did. I mean, I tried. And I was the stereotypical good girl, but the whole God thing never really sat with me. When we were little, my parents got into this hardcore non-denomination church with bible studies and the works. It was like every second of the day was based on God. That was the worst torture of my life.

I did deal with Catholic guilt, though! Just getting to say "I'm an atheist" kinda terrified me, but once I got over that it was a load off my shoulders. So yeah, I probably do have a bone to pick with Catholicism in particular.

My mom thinks it's a phase, my brother and sister think I'm gonna go to hell or something, and my dad...is just being an asshole who refuses to hear anything I have to say about religion (me saying that the evangelical movement was dangerous where religious-extremist-Huckabee is concerned is what started that whole brouhaha).

But seriously, about a year ago my sister was trying to warn me about the Rapture and asking how I would react if suddenly millions of people disappeared without a trace. My response? Aliens. Because I'd honestly give an alien abduction more credence than "God took them." lol
auralpoison
Yeah, it's weird. I'm an atheist, too. My parents both had old school Baptist upbringings, so we didn't go to church. They sent me to bible school in the summer & I went to a Presby youth group because my friend did. But that's about it. My grandpa is a minister & my grandparents are DEEPLY religious. DEEPLY. So of course, we have little in common as Jesus is everything. I even *think* about a swear word, I get a dirty look.

I suppose if I had to pick a religion, I'd be a Jew even though they won't let me eat bacon or shellfish. Damn.
pepper
ppfftt! funny girls.

you know, my mom has been a spiritual person all her life, she was raised catholic but is way into native spiritualism, buddhism, even likes a little b'hai (or however the heck you spell that), so we grew up with all the great spirit and higher power stuff but i just think we're all interconnected, nature is magical, there is the great unknown and that's that for me. i have no need to try and answer the questions, i accept that some things are beyond my tiny little human capacity to figure out and i just appreciate the vastness of it all without having to feel like i understand it. no one really understands anything anyhow, but dang it do some people every try.

right, my mom. she's a working musician and strong community member so she landed a gig as the choir director and organist for a church. i get ALL kinds of church lady action these days and i love it. i just groove on their goodness, they are mostly very kind. they aren't a preachy bunch either so i actually enjoy their company and whenever they might say "G-D" i just interpret that my own way inside my head. it works out just fine.

as a side note, it always freaks me out how many really religious people eat meat. it says it right there in the bible not too but i guess they just like the taste enough to totally overlook that little tidbit. all the churchy functions i've ever gone to centre around a big hunk of some dead cooked thing. that's just plain wierd to me and makes no sense. sometimes i think the vegetarian hindus are better practicing christians that christians are!
konphusion26
Interesting that I'm seeing alot of people here that were raised in religious/spiritual households but never carried it over into their adult life. I guess I'm the opposite. I wasn't raised in a "religious" or spiritual home. My parents only went to church a couple times a year, cursed like sailors, drank, smoked and never really talked about God at all. how funny. We were brought up with all these traditions like christmas trees and what not... I dont really remember what age I started seeking answers. Maybe my teens?? I think I was being drawn to seeking a higher power, direction, conviction. But it wasnt because my family was teaching us about the Lord or making us go to church.

I really can't see me living any other way now though. I guess I'm one of those folks who clings to my Christian faith because for me its the one hopeful thing worth seeking these days. And if at the end, I'm proven wrong then I'll just have to take that chance. But while i'm here, I choose to have an unshakeable faith in my Creator.

I wish you gals the best, and even though you may not believe as I do (or care LOL), you are in my thoughts and prayers. Much love!
auralpoison
Um, where does it say we can't eat meat, Pepper? Cite your source specifically. Chapter & verse, please.

The Book of Leviticus lays down the dietary rules, it says nothing about NOT eating meat. We are not to eat anything that wallows in it's own filth/has cloven hooves (pigs) & we are not to eat anything from the sea that lacks fins or scales. Also some fowl, like vultures. It lays out very clearly that we are holy vessels of the Lord & that we are not to sully our bodies with scavengers/bottom feeders, etc. Meat is fine as long as you follow the rules.

Besides, those dietary rules are only truly followed by very observant Jews. Most Christians could give a fuck except for some Catholics & their meat free Fridays. They get their proteins via cod on those days. My hyper observant grandparents eat pork & catfish as they are staples of African American cooking & they are sure they'll go to heaven.

The fucked up thing is that the same chapter also calls for circumcision which I think is just cruel. It's also the chapter that decries homosexuality in that man shall not lie with man as he lies with woman.

For being an atheist, I know my biblical shit. I ain't fucking about.

ETA: I've had me some lovely Jewish boys & I can be observant & cook Kosher. I likes a good brisket. I also used to work for a for a Kosher deli & had to make deliveries before the Sabbath. Mmmmm . . . best pastrami ever.
beck
interesting discussion of food rules - maybe one of you can answer me this one - my old flatmate used to go sometimes to a Black evangelical church in our neighbourhood, and they were quite opposed to eating pork. Our lives would not have been complete without bacon and she definitely did not stick to it, but it was kind of taboo in this church. She was not sure why but we assumed it was some kind of Old Testament influence.

AP I am so with you on circumcision and all the rest. Personally I think it's all about interpreting a historical text in context. There are lots of things in the bible people would have no qualms about ignoring (carrying out ritual cleansing with a priest every time your shower curtain gets a spot of mildew, not wearing clothes made from mixed fibres...)

I was raised evangelical. I hated it all, every minute, but like pepper, it did give me an appreciation of the goodness of many of the people there, even though i didn't exactly see eye to eye with them (queer teen + crazy evangelicals = trauma).

I do have a faith still, but in a different way. I find the rituals of the Catholic Church very comforting. As an institution it has so much wrong with it but the individuals I have known have been supremely accepting.

i am open to all religions and none, but not got much time for the dogmatic and militant individuals (of any persuasions). and i don't think religion should play a part in politics the way it seems to in the US. i like that here it is sort of a taboo in public life.
pepper
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?searc...&version=9;

Genesis 1:29-30 (King James Version)
King James Version (KJV)

29And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.

30And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so.


conveniently ignored (aka interpreted) howsoever the carnivorous mind would like.
katiebelle2882
those quotes do not specifically say "do not eat meat". if ANYWHERE in the bible is said not to eat meat there would be fundamental christians (and jews) not eating meat for religious reasons and i dont know of a single sect in either of the bible based religions that does that. also, hindu's eat meat. just not beef.
nohope
QUOTE(kittenb @ Jan 17 2008, 02:20 PM) *
See I have met more than one militant atheist in my life and I just find them to be every bit and annoying and arrogent as every other fundemental believer of any religion (please not I said militant, not just atheist.) It seems that it is not enough for an atheist to not have a beleif system. Anyone who does have one is just stupid and uneducated.

How is your judgement any better for this planet than someone who holds a literal interpretation of the Bible? All your are really saying is "I'm right, your wrong, and further more you are dumb if you disagree." Where is the enlightenment in this view?


It is clear by the evidence that many educated and intelligent hold beliefs for which there is no proof.

That in no way is bad for the world... But it might be bad for them, and us depending on how those beliefs impact the type of decisions they are likely to make.

I'm not saying "I'm right, your wrong," what I am saying is that empirical knowledge is a better metric by which to established the validity of the existence of phenomena than are all the writings of all the books in history.

And all the books in history have a greater statistical chance of getting something right than any one book. Authoritative sources are simply unreliable. Which does not make them unimportant. They can be great as a jumping off point in doing the type of theoretical work which will lead to empirical study which will either prove of disprove an hypothesis.

The god hypothesis, however, has not shown itself to be very robust. That people, intelligent and other wise still believe in the god hypothesis says more, I think, about what people need to believe, as a function of their identity, than it does about the state of reality itself.

And I think 9/11 has more so than any other event in US history, shown the great weakness and problematic aspects of this type of belief system. By which I am not talking about god, but rather about authoritative knowledge...

I think we have seen the outer limits of authorities knowledge as a useful methodology, in it's application as a methodology which leads can lead to mass destruction. Of course we saw that in the holocaust, or under various Marxist redistribution ideas as well...

But people aren't really articulating it this way.

We are still thinking theist and atheist.. And I think the problem is much more methodological than ideological.
pepper
sure, it doesn't say what Not to eat but it does say what To eat and that's pretty much the same thing. there are TONS of other things in the bible that are "up to interpretation" in exactly the same way but this one gets zero attention because people like to eat animals. except for halleluia acres, they are christian veggies.
all the hindus i know are veg, not that i know thousands of them or anything. i think there are two schools of thought on that, sacred cow and sacred all animals. i'll have to ask.
sexysandee
I have never been anyone to judge anyone based on their religion. I just found this interesting and I thought I would share it with all of you.

My friend works at a hospice center and she found that the people that come in and are atheists are more frightened at that time in their lives. She said they would shake and have nightmare every night.
She went on to say that people that believed in God and the afterlife were very peaceful and would smile all the time and look at the ceiling as if they could see something that eased them.

Just something to think about.

I personally believe in God, I was raised Catholic, but I do not attend a church regularly. I go when invited and I don't stick to a specific religion. I pray everyday and I feel as if a person should not feel as if they need to go to a church to pray, but they can pray anywhere.
crazyoldcatlady
khonphusion, i appreciate your discussion. it's rare to find a "believer" who can be nonpartisan and open for discussion with "non-believers" without shutting down or preaching. to touch on some things you said...

QUOTE
He convicts me/scolds me when I do wrong, but I know that I can ask him for forgiveness and truly believe that He's forgiven me. I've done alot of crap in my life that I'm ashamed of, but through my faith in Christ, its been forgotten. I'm so thankful for that.


the forgiveness aspect i can understand. we all need to feel like we're going to be absolved, or that someone/thing can absolve us, if we fuck up. but the whole "god will smite me if i fuck up" aspect is something that never sat well with me.

QUOTE
Some might say its all made up or fiction or the bible has been misconstrued or what not... but i know what I feel in my heart everytime I pray or every time I ask God to make something happen and he hears me.


again, my knee jerk reaction is just that; that it is made up and it is fiction and that many of god's followers and churches have perverted the bible beyond select questionable advice already in the text.

i have a hard time consolidating the natural and the supernatural, if you will. i think bill mahr of all people kind of summed it up for me (paraphrased): "you can't put on a suit, go to work, and be a rational functioning human 6 days a week and then on Sunday believe in an imaginary space god." i don't put all my trust in science, but back in the middle ages/past history, natural and scientific phenomenon was attributed to something ethereal; the solar eclipse was punishment from the gods, and not a natural event. all this because science had just not elucidated that yet. i often wonder what's out there NOW that just hasn't been explained by science yet....

i'm basically being a fence rider. i don't like calling myself agnostic. i'd rather swing one way or the other, just take a damn stand. but that's me. a friend i know is content with calling himself agnostic. his reasoning: "you say you're agnostic and you're saying, 'listen, i'm not smart enough to say there isn't a god, and i'm not in tune enough to say there is one. so why don't we call it a day and go have a beer?"
huh.gif
konphusion26
I understand what you're saying sister. I love everyone, believer or non believer because that's what Christ did; and as a follower and believer in Him that's what I've been commanded to do. Its not so much the "god will smite me" thing, moreso that every action has a consequence whether its positive or negative. Accountability and responsibility, ya know? I know alot of people who are "fence riders" as you said it. LOL and I realize that not everyone will be persuaded to believe one way or another. I'll definitely pray for you to get some clarity and that you find the answers you seek. I try not to look to other people for their opinions about what's real or what's not. People are just people. Even when my pastor is teaching on a topic, I go into that chapter and read it for myself. I definitely agree with you 100% that people have perverted the hell out of the bible. thats why I want to lean to read and study it in its native languages and original context. The translation that I read is the New International version. I try to keep what I read in context. Some people like to take portions of the word and make it fit their situation; They like to only hear the good parts, and not the bad parts. And that's not the way to do it. My church calls that the "feel good" gospel! They don't want to feel that conviction. The word must be kept in it fullness. Now, I'm not saying that I'm perfect and I always say or do the right things either. However, I'm trying every day to live a right life and be good to people.
nickclick
konphusion, i agree with cocl, thanks for your openness. it's refreshing to meet a christian on these boards who isn't trolling.

QUOTE(konphusion26 @ Jan 17 2008, 07:15 PM) *
He comforts me when I'm in pain. This is the hope that I cling to each and every breath that I take. Having relationship with my heavenly father God has kept me from going COMPLETELY insane or living in fear in this jacked up word we live in. Yes I come on the board and rant and rave about certain things... just because I want to, I enjoy sharing my thoughts and my life. I go through hell like everyone else. However, I know what God has brought me through already, and I know it was not by my own strength or power. I know what He is working out for me right now, I just haven't seen it yet. In a nutshell, that is the definition of faith according to scripture.


i don't think i'm selfish for giving credit to myself for getting thru any crap with my own strength and power. i acknowledge that i have a good parent and i'm lucky to have a fair amount of intelligence. but i also like to pat myself on the back for doing (what i think is) the right thing, finding a good support system of a good mate and friends, maintaining a good relationship with my family, making good choices and steering myself away from anything i can't handle.

konphusion, you should be proud of yourself for finding a faith that works for you. i worry that people with too much faith in religion don't have enough faith in themselves, and that many religions create that hierarchy that says you aren't as good as others.
kittenb
QUOTE(konphusion26 @ Jan 17 2008, 06:15 PM) *
Even if I didnt love Him back. He's a Father to me, where my birth father has failed me. He convicts me/scolds me when I do wrong, but I know that I can ask him for forgiveness and truly believe that He's forgiven me.

He comforts me when I'm in pain. This is the hope that I cling to each and every breath that I take. Having relationship with my heavenly father God has kept me from going COMPLETELY insane or living in fear in this jacked up word we live in. Yes I come on the board and rant and rave about certain things... just because I want to, I enjoy sharing my thoughts and my life. I go through hell like everyone else. However, I know what God has brought me through already, and I know it was not by my own strength or power. I know what He is working out for me right now, I just haven't seen it yet. In a nutshell, that is the definition of faith according to scripture.

When the hard times come or when I'm hurting, it would be easy for me to turn my back on God or my belief in him. I could never do that though because He has never let me down. I hold on to the faith that He will make everything alright; And he comes through every time. Thats how I function girls... Some might say its all made up or fiction or the bible has been misconstrued or what not... but i know what I feel in my heart everytime I pray or every time I ask God to make something happen and he hears me. Or every moment I ask Him for protection and I am protected. So I owe Him my life because He has saved me, healed me and restored me. For me that is so powerful... Jesus died for ME. That is the ultimate love man. And I can't deny who He is in my life. I give Him all the glory.


A lot of this is how I feel but when I look for the source I see the Goddess.
pepper
QUOTE(nickclick @ Jan 19 2008, 09:35 AM) *
konphusion, i agree with cocl, thanks for your openness. it's refreshing to meet a christian on these boards who isn't trolling.


ditto.

the church ladies i've met through my mama embody a lot of what i think godliness is supposed to be all about, love and peace and kindness and acceptance. they are wonderful people.
konphusion26
Thanks chickies! I just wanted to share and be informed as well. I don't know everything but, I think we can learn from each other. Especially since we're all going through pretty much the same issues every single day.
yess
I just found this crazy article about a Baptist church which plans on picketing Heath Ledgers funeral because he played a gay character in Brokeback Mountain: Heath Ledger is now in Hell

I just can't believe it!! It is these kinds of religous nuts who make it hard for me to believe in a God...
kittenb
There is no more dangerous place than between Fuckhead Fred Phelps and a news camera. His church (which is mostly made up of his family) is always doing that sort of thing. The fact that they protest the funerals of American soldiers upsets me more than this story b/c it is likely that Heath Leger's family will be able to afford scary enough security that he can do little harm.

Fred Phelps speaks for no god that I can think of. He only speaks for his own depraved and corrupt paranoia. I wish he would just die.
konphusion26
QUOTE(yess @ Jan 28 2008, 07:00 PM) *
I just found this crazy article about a Baptist church which plans on picketing Heath Ledgers funeral because he played a gay character in Brokeback Mountain: Heath Ledger is now in Hell

I just can't believe it!! It is these kinds of religous nuts who make it hard for me to believe in a God...

I don't agree with them picketing the man's funeral. Stories like that make me as a Christian cringe. Don't let fanatics/extremists deter you from God hunny. Because when its all said and done, you and I will be held responsible for our belief or disbelief in Him. I'd much rather believe He is real now and find out otherwise later than to NOT believe and find out that God is real and has been real the whole time. Just something to think about.
nickclick
isn't is sacreligious for a preacher or whatever he is to DECIDE who and who doesn't go to heaven or hell? why don't other churches protest HIM?

self-rightousness. that should get you into hell.
pollystyrene
QUOTE(kittenb @ Jan 28 2008, 06:14 PM) *
Fred Phelps speaks for no god that I can think of. He only speaks for his own depraved and corrupt paranoia. I wish he would just die.


It's going to be interesting when he does die....I just hope what has gone around comes back to bite him in the ass.

Did anyone ever see the episode of The Awful Truth, Michael Moore's TV show that was on Bravo, when they did the Sodomobile episode? I found a clip of the segment here.

God, I hope the Sodomobile pays his funeral a visit!
beck
i thought they lost that lawsuit and were gonna be bankrupted and not be able to do that stuff anymore?
kittenb
Thanks Polly. The look on Phelps face when the Sodommobile pulled up just made my day.
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