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girltrouble
if he's prefacing that with "the word on the street" sounds like your friends have pointed out what an ass he was being and he's revising history. atleast that's my take. that's a lot of misheards for a single conversation if you ask me. you can't unring a bell at anyrate and it's probably best that you get some space from him so you don't feel so conflicted. i would not feel bad for a half second.
whitelightning
girltrouble - the thing is, i don't trust myself. never have. it's totally possible that i misconstrued, although if i knew i could stay a couple of more days, believe me, i would have. but i often get things mixed up and get overcome with emotion, etc. now i don't know what to think.

i understand that my depression just killed our relationship. i understand it not being pleasant, but we've been together for 3 years. he knows i'm trying to find a way to seek out therapy and meds, and still he wants to rip apart our lives because he simply doesn't want to deal with it. he told me he wants/deserves someone who's "happy to be alive" and who's financially stable and got their shit together. ...and you can find these people where?

i feel like the biggest loser.

luci - glad to hear about the new therapist!
girltrouble
still--
you guys broke up. you need space, it's easy for him to be in "i wanna be friends" land. he's the jackass who broke up with you-- without giving you time to deal with your depression and atleast start some sort of treatment. imho- a pretty shitty thing to do. so now he's trying to make himself feel better. whatever.

your depression didn't kill the relationship, he did. you even said as much:
"he knows i'm trying to find a way to seek out therapy and meds, and still he wants to rip apart our lives because he simply doesn't want to deal with it."
essentually, he's wimping out. there are people who will love you beyond your depression, and who have the guts to stick with you as you figure these things out. he couldn't. as you said he didn't even really give you the time you needed to get the situation under control. and that's his mistake, his loss. you have friends who love and value you. so don't look back. you DO DESERVE someone who isn't so risk averse (to use his financial terminology, more balls in my terminology.), and who isn't going to let a bit of turbulance spook them.

oh, and chica--you might feel like a loser, but you aren't. you are trying get your life together in a very tough situation. and that takes a lot of guts. you should be proud of yourself, not beating yourself up. and you are doing it inspite of your insensitive ex. understand-- you are NOT to blame. period. you've got school, and other things to concentrate on right now, and half of the stuff you have to figure out is because of him. why should you have to massage his ego cos he feels bad for whatever it is he said. you've got bigger fish to fry.
candycane_girl
whitelightning, you are not a bad person at all! It's clear from what you told us before that he was the one being an ass, not you.

At least you're trying to get help and work through your depression! My best friend's boyfriend is extremely depreseed but he thinks he doesn't have a problem and refuses to get help. Your boyfriend should have at least acknowledged your attempts to work through your depression.
maddy29
WL-he is totally just feeling guilty and wants to keep his reputation. what he did to you is awful-fine, break up, that's his choice, but to kick you out into the street? MEAN! MEAN MEAN MEAN!!!!! Screw him, I have no sympathy for him if your friends think he's being an ass-cause he is being an ass. I'm not saying he's an awful person, etc, but he is handling this badly and he NEVER should have kicked you out like that. grrr. i still want to come over and yell at him!!!!

i have more to say about my last post but i gotta work! i actually feel like a huuuuge weight has been lifted off of me, it's weird-it may sound pessimistic to say that life has no purpose or grand design, but it's a big relief to me to admit it. more later.

hugs to all smile.gif
whitelightning
((hugs to all))

i don't even know where to begin. had a horrible night - ex came over, we were both drunk, we talked. some unbelievable things were said. i don't even want to type it. i had never seen him this upset before, ever. basically, he feels as if our previous miscommunication about my being kicked out has led everyone to "rally" for me. he feels that i've been through a major breakup before, this is his first one and that although i'm in a worse position than he is, he needs to be comforted too. that for 3 years, he tried to make me happy and that was completely unrewarded. that he loves me, but he has nothing left for me because i sucked it out of him. that he told me a month ago he was done and that this was where it was headed. that he stayed with me this last month out of pity. we were able to talk even that out and then after a nice moment together and after deciding to spend the night, he accidentally found out about the cutting and used that as an example of how i'm worse off than when we first met. and that this is why we can never be together. and i flipped out. hysteric episode. crying, begging, tearing at my hair. he didn't know what to do to help me. he left but said he'll go with me to a crisis clinic if i want him to do that for me.

i thought i was gonna be ok but i don't know anymore. i might check myself into a hospital but i don't even feel comfortable with that. what if they test for drugs, etc. i don't want to be instituionalized i just want some emotional safety with him again. and a home...

has anyone gone to a crisis center or ER before for depression or other kinds of episodes?
annelise
big, big hug to you, WL.
maddy29
rolleyes.gif rolleyes.gif rolleyes.gif

oh, that poor poor man-we must rush over to coddle him in his time of need. bleeeergggh!!!!! seriously, he wants a fucking reward? No one forced him to be with you. he is really just upset because your friends are taking your side, and he probably didn't expect that.

and using your cutting against you-low, looooooow low. seriously.

i've never gone to the ER cause i've heard it just sucks. But if you don't feel safe, check it out. I'm sure other people will have suggestions for you.

Is there a friend you can spend some time with? Just sit and veg out? You need some quiet time to just be. I wish I could mail you some Xanax smile.gif


mandolyn
(((WL))) what everyone else has said.

and might i add that, even if he represents some form of previous comfort, now he's toxic to you. i suggest you stay away from him, even if he offers to "help". maybe you skewed & spinned relationship trials & errors. we all do that. how can you not see things through your own bias? but so did he. and he's still skewing & spinning ... and very detrimentally to your health.

please seek out your real friends. you have them, you know who they are. don't worry about their relationship to him or what he's saying. try to put him out of your mind. he's not a true friend.

call a crisis center. there's no risk in calling.
and ask your friend who's going to hook you up with a therapist to step it up a little.

(((gt))) just cuz.

(((everyone)))
whitelightning
((mandolyn)) ((annelise)) ((maddy)) ((anyone else i forgot))

toxic. yes, i agree. i'm so bewildered...i never expected this.

he asked me why i'm always the victim, why i always need "help" (from him and others). i have no answer. do you all feel like you're always in need of help? i definitely do.

i think i'm still on for my a meeting with my nurse practitioner friend. we'll see.
whitelightning
((girltrouble)) i just reread your post...thanks
maddy29
mandolyn-that was lovely smile.gif loverly!!! just what i was thinking-he used to be supportive but now it's just gonna make you sicker to be around him.

gah, i can't believe he pulled the "you are such a victim" card!!!! blergh. i say, pooh on him. POOH! Everyone needs help at some time or another. When i was a lot worse off, my mom would fly out here, take me grocery shopping, make me tons of soup to freeze up, and feed me for the weekend and leave me with lots of stuff to eat. does that mean i was a "victim" ???? of course not.

I totally need people's help, and for me it's great, because i used to try so hard not to ask for help, and would end up totally overwhelmed about every little thing.

I hear y'all about the overthinking-i always do this and end up just going in circles until i feel like i want to punch myself in the face to stop from thinking anymore.
anna k
I'm going to be going to therapy next week at my school. Despite my accomplishments, I still get lonely and depressed, and it can weigh on my mind. I don't feel like paying $100 an hour for therapy, even with insurance. I'd rather vent to a school therapist and see what he/she says. I can blame my depression on my Asperger's Syndrome, but it's not just that. I'm used to being alone and not being close with friends, and it can get to me and make me feel worthless. It sucks.
girltrouble
lightnin', really. i know the urge is to think that you've got this idea that you miss heard things, or that you can't trust yourself, but sticking with just what you've told us in the last couple of posts, dude is a SERIOUS ASSHOLE. here you are trying to figure out where to live, dealing with depression, school, and --- a breakup.

you'll have to double check my math, but the two most immediate problems were because of your dicklick ex.

i listen to you talk about how you always feel like you are the victim in the relationship, but that's what he's telling you.
QUOTE
*he asked me why i'm always the victim, why i always need "help" (from him and others).
*he feels as if ... my being kicked out has led everyone to "rally" for me.
*he needs to be comforted too.

at every turn he's thinking of one person-- himself.

no wonder everyone is ralling to your side. he's a selfish prick.
i know you want to think he's alright, but he's not. knowing you cut yourself when he broke up with you, he feels the need to revisit things to the point that you're pulling your hair out.

...and then he offers to take you to the crisis clinic.

[sarcasm] what a prince.[/sarcasm]

the best thing he has ever done for you is break up with you. cos from the sound of it he has done nothing but make your situation worse. when mandy said that he was toxic to you, that was an understatement.

please, please do not see him again-- for your sake.


and anna, i know what you mean. i have friends but i have a hard time telling them anything about what's going on in my life no how much they already know about it already. :/
whitelightning
girltrouble - yeah...i believe he's being selfish in this. and you are all going to (virtually) smack me in the face when i tell you that i saw him again last night. one of our housemates (and her baby) were in a car accident last night, so i went over with a couple of friends. nobody got hurt, but she was shaken up. the ex had called me earlier on in the day as well. his venom is out...he apologized for the reaction to my cutting and we had a civilized talk about what we need to do to heal - individually. his actions and words over the past week DO NOT excuse anything. it's weird because when he tells friends and family that we broke up, he was expecting people to say 'well, i'm glad you're out of that' or 'good that that's over'...instead, they're saying 'that sucks. you two really had something special'. i just thought that was interesting.

he recognizes that i'm in a shitty situation and offered to help in any way that he can. he asked me if it would help if i move back in while i'm trying to get therapy, etc. i'm like...that's what i was trying to do these past couple of months. i want so badly to move back in - mainly to have a home base and a comforting place to be while i'm trying to get it all together. i miss plucking my eyebrows in *my* bathroom, looking at my dirty underwear on *my* floor, rearranging all my weird little trinkets and curling up in my blankets. i know things seem better with the ex because we're taking the steps we need to take. i don't want to get suckered into thinking things have changed and get right back in the relationship. this is like the honeymoon phase of the breakup.

i feel safer now. much better. sad as all fucking hell, but a little better than the day before. i'm off to see my nurse practitioner friend in an hour. wish me luck!

anna_k - have you looked into some other options for therapy, like unitarian or lutheran community centers? i've been looking into those for myself and they tend to have sliding scale fees. for some strange reason, i think you and i grew up in the same area (i don't know how i know that!! - maybe from another topic/thread on here) so if i think of anything, i'll send you a message.
girltrouble
what does that mean? have you moved back? while i can understand the longing for comfort, i really don't think it's a good idea. considering he can have you tearing out your hair and cutting yourself with only a short conversation. do consider he is just needing to feel like a good guy, when clearly he is not. it may be that he is using you simply to repair his tarnished reputation from his earlier behaviour.
mandolyn
(((WL))) if he kicks you out again, think about how much worse you're going to feel.
wishing you all good things for your appt, luv.
whitelightning
no, i haven't moved back! i don't think that is the wisest thing to do...i was just stating how i *want* to, but know that i can't for sanity's sake. i want to move back because a week ago, it was my home. but i think we'd slide right back into that bad stuff and even though this is more difficult - couchsurfing, trying to find work, etc. i think it's for the best. i was saying that i feel emotionally safer in general...now that we've begun to drain the abscess, so to speak. rest assured, i haven't moved back in. he asked me to stay the night last night and i toyed with the idea myself, but given the events of last week, and the other night i didn't think that was a good idea.

he is trying to make himself feel better. i have to say i have a really difficult time with admitting when people treat me poorly. i feel like i'm victimizing myself or something. i don't know...i've been posting all the bad stuff, too. but i'm glad i can get many perspectives on this.

i'm a little nervous about this meeting with my friend. i'll let you know how it goes.
girltrouble
good. i was worried about you. i still am, but a lot less since you're not moving back. i really think he is bad news for you. and i want good news for you.
ratgrl
((((Whitelightning))))

Wow, I don't even know where to begin after reading all these posts. But FWIW, I concur with what most everyone else has said about your ex: mainly, that he's a cruel, self-centered jerk and that you're better off without him. At this point in your life, you just need to concentrate on one person: YOU.

Clearly, you're going through some really tough times right now, and I'm glad you have other people in your life who are supportive. If you find yourself experiencing what you think might be a mental health emergency, please don't hesitate to call a crisis center!

Take care of yourself, sweetie. I worry about you.
whitelightning
((ratgrl)) ((girltrouble))

don't laugh at me, but he's really not a self-centered jerk. (i said don't laugh!!!) i think he is inexperienced and is overwhelmed and he is *acting* like a self-centered jerk. he has apologized for things that i wanted him to apologize for but i think it's too soon for us to be rehashing anything just yet. he's overwhelmed and thinking about himself and he said what would make him feel comforted or feel better would be to see me feeling ok about myself and the world. hmm. well, that's up to me and i'm not going to "get better" for him, i've got to do it for me.

here's a bit of good news, girltrouble: i just started on effexor. today. the first time i've ventured into meds. my np friend has brought me into her clinic. we'll try this med and see how it goes. she said to come back in a couple of weeks to check my blood pressure, etc. and see how it's working.

i'm a little nervous. this is a bigger deal to me than i thought it would be. it's almost like i'm just not ready for change or i'm afraid of it.

baby steps.
mandolyn
(((WL))) very relieved to hear your friend is helping you. good luck with the effexor. is there a chance for therapy too?

(((ratgrl))) thinking all good thoughts for your biopsy, darlin. when do you get your results? do keep us posted.

i bummed out pretty badly today, but i forced myself to take a long walk. i love walking. i surf radio stations. i mull and ponder. it's the closest i get to meditation. i figured i'd feel tons better when i got home, and i'd clean or tidy or shower or something.

alas. no happy endorphins kicked in.
so i napped.

escapism, thy name is mandi.
girltrouble
(((mandy))) chica, napping is my main pressure valve. smile.gif
knorl05
whitelightning: "it's almost like i'm just not ready for change or i'm afraid of it." this i feel is the reason we all stay in the patterns that we do. i know for myself i crave change, and then when it comes down to doing the things that will create the change, i hesitate. i think it's fear.. letting go of the comfort, the familiarity, the security of how things are - even if they're not really what we want.
stargazer
whitelighting, i understand what you mean about the ex. i just recently reconnected with my ex. it is amazing how mature she has gotten since our breakup. she has really changed for the better. of course, part of me is thinking, "why couldn't this happened when we were together?" but, it didn't. we always had a good friendship. and i'm glad we are working towards having a friendship again. we were good people, but as lovers...well, we just became toxic with each other. we took things out on each other. we were both immature. i think we both needed to do alot of growing up and self care away from each other. i wanted to be friends with her after the breakup, but it felt like every opportunity was used to rehash the failure of the relationship. so, i just ceased all contact. but, time and distance can change things. not that i want you to think that you will get back together with him. but, maybe you will realize that you two were not meant to be together. or, that you want someone else in your life. most importantly, i think you need to take this time to take care of YOU. good to hear you are starting effexor.

mando, i love napping. one of my fav activities. still is. just start calling it a siesta and you will feel all european.

ratgrl, please keep us updated about your biopsy.

((everyone))
Moonpieluv
Oh my... I have to agree with stargazer for it correlates almost exactly to my current situation with my ex.... Since I left him after 6 1/2 years, It has been a constant rollercoaster of emotion, a struggle to find that harmony, solitude, self-actualization.... I seem to find it for about a couple of weeks to a month, then the ex comes to visit for illness reasons, and it seems all I have worked for to create a sense of balance and healthy living goes to poop. He lays it on me that he may move back from nyc, where he is sinking financially, physically, and mentally. He says all the things I'd wished he realized before I left. It is brought up that we may explore getting back together, but I know clear as day that we have just begun on the journey to really growing up so getting back together when there is still a lot we must work on individually may not be the best choice.
And yet, I'm so confused, lonely, sad. I do stupid crap that has surely affected my reputation in my small town. Now I'll never get a date (not that I need to in my current state). I feel judged constantly as opposed to having my supposed friends extend understanding, encouragement, and support. My self-esteem suffers. I want to break the pattern of unhealthy relationships, etc. Geez. I have debt to pay, no car, and I'm extremely hard on myself. and I smoke cigs like a factory. I know that I have accomplished a lot for someone recently single going it alone, but I feel like only two of my friends really understand that my road to recovery/balance has and will be a bumpy ride.
I had mentioned endurance in a previous post.... and all I know to do is continue on the track I was trying to follow prior to the ex visit. I do feel awful about myself, however. And not that there is a geographical cure by any means.... but I would love to just move to a place where no one knows my history, start from a clean slate. Or just hide away at home and never go out on the weekends again. I figure that I really need to go back to school for my master's now.
Sorry.... feelin' a bit low. Thanks for letting me vent a bit. any suggestions or helpful comments are welcome.

Off to the store for some string cheese. tongue.gif unsure.gif
girltrouble
i'll second what stargazer said, and add this: sometimes you don't see yourself properly in a relationship. sometimes it takes the spanking of breaking up (whether you are breaker or breakee), to make you look at your behavior. i certainly think that is what is going on with your bf, lightnin'. he feels like shit cos your mutual friends have called him on his shit and he doesn't like what he sees, but instead of doing internal work, he is trying to do a public relations blitz with the friends, and you are a very convenient tool. i don't think he realizes he's doing things that, in retrospect, will make him look even worse, next time he takes that internal temprature.

personally, it was that look at my behaviour after a relationship that i was actually a pretty shitty boyfriend (back when i could say i was a boy-lol). i was a lying cheating asshole, and the break up was a real slap in the face. it woke me up. i also saw a friend who was mirroring my behavior with another friend. i decided i really wanted to be more honest in relationships, and that was the agent for a lot of changes. now personal integrity with the person i'm dating is paramount. my approach to my girlfriends now is much different.

but i needed that time where my ex wouldn't talk to me. i earned it and i had to pay the piper. to jump to the friendship stage would have cut short the growth both of us needed to be better people. me way more than her, but still, it lead me to more mature, satisfying, heathy, deeper relationships. and the last 3 gf's i've had are great friends. it's funny, you break up differently too, after you've learned those lessons. you break up because you love and respect them and you both see that the person isn't right for you. but it's good. you look back and there aren't any regrets, and hang out and there is nothing but love left-- no bitterness.

moon, lightnin' i know you want the good bits of those relationships, but the best thing you can do is get your distance, mine those experiences for things you've learned and what you don't want to repeat. but take your distance. i know in the short term you will feel the pinch, but the payoff--- is so very worth it.
stargazer
i think what you said was excellent, gt.

moon, i was in a very similar situation like you. i didnot have very supportive friends. so, instead, i got the friends who would treat me the way i wanted to be treated. they were already in my life. but, i also made new friends. and when the shit hit the fan for me and i became depressed...i saw who my real friends are. not to sound all junior high, but a real relationship for me are those people who are able to endure the rough times with me and not base our relationship on superficial things. in fact, if you can't be there for me when things get rough, then i don't think we have much of a relationship.

i think my breakup with my ex helped her with her current gf. it sounds like she has been amazingly open with her the whole time. i know my ex was also getting therapy at the same time. i'm so happy for her. it sounds like she is more confident in herself and what she wants for herself. our friendship now seems like a blessing if anything. it is really cool.

i guess just remember to take of yourself first.
Moonpieluv
You are so very right... and it's screwed cause I was completely aware that he only needed me to pet him like a mama cause he was/is sick.. and by using the whole "I want you back if you'll have me" thing, and the "I love you, (add personal nickname)" may tug at the warm-n-fuzzies in my heart... and uh, ahem, my chocha, as well. I'm actually pissed at myself, as well as him, for enlisting my sympathy and feeding me with the stuff I needed to hear before I left, as well as the issues I was hoping he would realize/take responsiblity for regardless of us being in a relationship.... something I just wanted for his own happiness. I do care about him, but he's been like poison to my having created a routine of taking care of myself.... (i.e. yoga/gym, pampering like steam rooms and physical appearence, reading, preparing for grad school). I say poison, cause I almost feel like he got what he needed... a breast to lay his head on and now he's back in his lil'brooklyn nook up to the same patterns of behavior and that's that. living superficially in la-la land, content to stay in his marj. induced rock-n-roll haze, scrawny "myspace obsessed past-time", or so he claims, hanging round. I feel used. yuck.
It's just so disrespectful, and hurtful to have someone tell you will always be their one true love and that they are sorry things got bad towards the end, to apologize. Have those feelings well up into your throat and down my cheeks. Then, wonder if he is texting his wee girl in my fucking bathroom or seeing lil' cute messages he's sent to her via the devil myspace and vice versa. Screw this crap...I deserve a more healthy, honest relationship. Staying true to myself and committing/accepting that he will never fulfill that for me. I'm tired of being tortured. As for friendships, I've sifted out the goodies from the whatever's-but-I'll-still-grab-a-drink-with-you's.
I'm hitting the gym tonight..... and I aim to sweat. I want my wits restored.
knorl05
moonpie: *huge hug*. that sucks that you've been going through so much lately and not felt a strong support system around you of empathy, sympathy or understanding. small towns can be so cruel; the people are sheltered and ignorant and have no idea about anything outside of their little bubble. i hope to god you are able to put things into perspective. i hope you are able to look beyond what's going on in this moment, the temporary feelings of despair, and see that life can always get better. it's just hard when our feelings continue to spiral out of control.. when we do things that we think will relieve the pain momentarily.. and then we find that we are actually seeming to cause ourselves more problems and frustration in the long run (sometimes even almost immediately). so then what now, you know? because you know you are not happy and you know you want to stop thinking about this shit. all i can say is nurture your wounds and then go forward toward what you want. do whatever you need to do to get yourself in the direction of what you'd rather have for your life. but above all, listen to your intuition. you are an intelligent person and you know what is best for you, you know what you should be doing. all it takes is the belief in yourself to know that you are capable and worthy of getting out of this rut.
mandolyn
(((WL))) you out there? check in, luv. even if you're back with mr asshat. we won't hit you. wink.gif

moonpie, you are a writer, aren't you? if not, you should be.

and you sound so grounded. like you know exactly what you have to do. you've got a good head on you shoulders, chica. don't obsess about past fuckups. we've all been there. (and i live in a small town too. my HOME town, for chrissakes. i strongly suspect i've damaged my 'rep' such as it is, and recently. it's hard, but you gotta shake it off and move on.)

unfortunately i have nothing to add to the relationships subject. i'm an old married lady. who either settled or has the love of her life and probably won't realize it until it's too late. le sigh.

except so much of what's been said can be applied to friendships in general. i could write a book about friendship. especially the ones that wound up turning my self-esteem into roadkill. i hate that i have very easily given certain people that much control over me. hell, they're long gone and they STILL have control over me. (see, i can advise people to move on. i just can't do it myself. ugh.)

you know, this thread is much more active nowadays. and it hurts my heart that so many of us are depressed, anxious, etc. but ... i gotta say, i'm learning a helluva lot from all of you. your experiences, your advice .... this is going to sound weird, but i'm honored to know you guys and be considering among the ranks.

and i also appreciate the gentleness and warmth and empathy. i'm not a fan of tough love. at all. that shit killed this thread for me several years back. as did a few holier-than-thou types. *severe eye roll*

(((depressed busties)))

(we need a better group name than 'depressed busties'.
and matching jackets.
and a theme song.
kidding, kidding, just kidding. wink.gif )


i've got a general question: how do you know the meds are working? i've heard people say they instantly felt better. or did after a few weeks. but ... i'm having a hard time figuring this out, and i'm once more thinking of asking the doc - regular GP, not a shrink - to up my dosage. (i've only been on 50 mg of zoloft for two weeks. before that, it was 25 mg for 3.5 weeks.) i think i feel 'better', less anxious. i know my OCD has calmed down considerably. but how do you know for sure?
annelise
you can't know for sure, probably...depression isn't something that can be measured empirically. but it's worth considering your reaction to everyday stresses, how often you might cry, anxiety levels...stuff like that.

if you think you're improving, maybe, just a little bit, keep on doing what you're doing, until you have a better feeling one way or the other.

my mood is pretty stagnant (in its ups and downs!), but i'm sloooowly and gradually improving physical-health-wise lately (chronic illness, long story). it's incredibly subtle, but i've found that i'm noticing little stuff i can do more easily, everyday things that aren't tiring me out as much. it took me a long time to be able to say with certainty that i'm improving, but as time has gone by and the tiny incremental improvements are noticeable in their subtle ways--i know it. i'm impatient but it's good to just know--healing is possible, as complicated and overwhelming as things may seem.

i hope that things can be the same for you, mandolyn. these things are usually gradual, but if you're going in a positive direction with treatment, that's such an amazing thing. over time, it could really make a difference. fingers crossed for you.

i'm learning a helluva lot from all of you. your experiences, your advice .... this is going to sound weird, but i'm honored to know you guys.

i'd just like to second that.
whitelightning
hey all

i've been on effexor for 4 days now and i still feel like i'm coming on to an ecstasy or mushroom trip (nausea, nervousness, floatiness, eyes feeling weird, etc.). i hope to god this subsides because i feel like a zombie. i accidentally knocked over a vase full of water and flowers today and didn't even flinch. but i haven't cried in about 3 days. is that good??

the ex and i are on (civil) speaking terms, and we even met each other for dinner last night. it feels weird. i still love him dearly and feel like it's all my fault this relationship didn't work because i'm depressed. like, if i just got treatment earlier, maybe we'd still be together. (i know! i know!...) but still...i just can't seem to get that elusive self-esteem.

a friend at school said to me, slowly and carefully, something to the effect of: "he is not the one for you. if he really loved you and was committed to you, he would be there for you, regardless of your depression. he's with you in spite of your depression."

i keep wondering about that...how much is too much for a loved one to "put up with" depression?
girltrouble
hey mandy, one thing i might suggest when figuring out your meds: find some people to confide in. people that know you well, and have one or two people monitor you and ask them how you seem.

i started doing that with my hormones and it was very informative. i discovered when i don't take my 'mones, i am a raging biotch. but it's good to know, and people ask me if i've changed my dose if i act a little more loopy than normal.

lightnin' i'm glad you're checking in, but good god, mama, can't you see it? everytime you hang out with him you are sure everything was your fault when it's apparent to everyone that your ex is a raging ass. you can't get that self esteem because you don't give yourself enough space to find it. you are an addict. and you keep going back for that fix.

your friend was right, he's not for you. why would you want to be with someone who doesn't love you for who you are? who treats you so shabbily? you deserve so much more, chica, and you can't find it while you're with him. you need to be on your own, as scary as it is so you can find that right someone. so you can get better. you can't see it, but he is part of what is making you sick. when we were talking about him being toxic to you, it was on the mark.

you have GOT TO STOP THINKING IT'S YOUR FAULT. not to be harsh but he didn't have the stones to even give you a CHANCE to get well. and he still isn't. if he loved you, he'd atleast give you a shot at getting better.
stargazer
mando, i found myself not preoccupied with my illness. i was able to focus on having a life and moving forward. i was able to read a book. i felt more alive. more like my old self, but just improved. i just didn't feel depressed or anxious anymore. calmer.

i don't know if that helps.
Moonpieluv
Oh my everyone who is struggling with the despair, loss, addiction, strife/confusion, whatever you choose to tag on your current condition with an ex....

I came across a quote in my double-decker sized thesaurus of quotations by Edna St. Vincent Millay that literally made me shed a tear with a smile....
Let me preface by saying that I was sitting on my front porch with this thing in my lap hell-bent on finding some solace.... after my day of holding back tears, feeling helpless/angry to the power the guys has over me, confused because I still long for him like a damn scene from Wuthering Heights..., physically unattractive (i.e. self-esteem issues). It's getting darker, the birds are chirpin and the squirrel's squirrelin

"Pity me that the heart is slow to learn/What the swift mind beholds at every turn"

Moonpieluv
Sorry I had to skip off the computer before I was finished...

Having came across this quote at least brings me comfort in that I know that if I let some time pass my heart will catch up with my head.

Thanks, mandy for the comment about my being a writer. That made me feel really empowered cause I oft think that I should pick that back up... and hone it. I am in a small town and most people are either musicians or painters/collage artists. I've been needing to fill a niche, not just in this community, but for myself.

I do know that I've got this thick cord of courage in me, but it waivers the second I get a wee text from him or I see others going thru life with supposed ease, calm, able to shake it off and move on, hop back on that horse and kick it hard into a gallop. It's frustrating and seems to deepen my feelings of sorrow/depression.
I just wish I wouldn't beat myself up so much and hold so much fear. That starts to well up and everything about myself is under scrutiny. Arrrgh. I did have a friend tell me last night that no one thinks I'm off my rocker, so that was reassuring.

I've thought about seeing someone, if only to talk this out. The possibility of meds, if needed. The illumination of behavioral patterns. Opiates such as sex, booze, cigs that cause me harm and never ease the pain. sigh. The surrealness of EVERYTHING.

Good luck to all with their struggle to at times just be able to live "normally". I also want to say thanks for the tips of monitoring your moods, reactions, etc. in general. This thread has been very helpful in learning about the illness.
knorl05
moonpie: the way i look at psychotherapy is just a means of improving your life. it's a matter of admitting, hey i cant take on the world alone.. which is totally ok because none of us are meant to. i think the reason some of us get overwhelmed with stuff is because we dont want to be a burden on others so instead we keep going around in our self destructive patterns. if it's what you're ready for, and it's what you want.. allow a therapist to help, that's what they have chosen to do with their lives. it's like going to any other doctor, they've seen it all, they're just there to perform their services.
shinyx3
i am new to this thread and maybe should ot post here as i am pregnant and i think this depression or rather severe ups and downs. if i were not preggers i would ask my doc for something. my family doesn't know what to do with me and quite frankly i do not know what to do with myself. i cry almost everyday and the reasons seem really stupid but i can't seem to stop. my ups are not as up as i normally am but they are at least not as down as the down are. i don't think it helps that i am not having a very easy pregnancy. it is hard to be happy about a bsaby when you don't want to get out of bed. In fact that pretty much sums it up. i could and have been just staying in bed and skipping class and now i have to drop of flunk out of one of them. i have not flunked a class since i was 18 and that was over 13 years ago. what should i do? my doc says this is just hormonal moods and maybe she is right but i still don't know how to deal with it.
annelise
hormonal depression can be really scary. how far along are you, shinyx?

i may have told this story, but here's my experience with hormonal depression (thankfully it wasn't constant!): i have a growth on my pituitary, so my hormones are all sorts of funky. i went through a phase for about 10 months where one day a month, i would become severely suicidal. it was all i could think about, and i would cry all day. every time, i would be too overcome with emotion to realize that it was exxxtreme pms, and i'd think that maybe i needed to be checked into a hospital or something! and then the next day i'd be in a normal mood and get my period.

the way that stopped was when i started getting acupuncture--it went away immediately, which was really impressive. i still get pms, but not the scary-suicidal type. so maybe if you have the finances, it might be worth looking into an acupuncturist. it's gentle and wouldn't hurt the baby, and who knows how it works, but it did help even out my hormones. i think i'd heard somewhere that acupuncture can be especially helpful for hormonal issues.

when you're feeling that down, it doesn't matter if it's "just hormones". it still feels like crap.
girltrouble
((((((((((((shiny)))))))))))
hope you feel better soon.



shinyx3
i am only 17 weeks into this. i am going to look into the accupuncture thing. can't hurt to investigate right. thanks for the hugs, somehow that seem to make me feel less alone in this.
stargazer
(((((shiny)))))) that is a terrible thing to tell a pregnant woman, what with the publicity of post-partum depression and all. if it is a concern for you, then it is a concern. have you posted in the pregnancy thread too?? or, the health or alternative health threads?? please do check in there. i know you will get alot of support and advice.

good to hear you are trying alternatives to western modern medicine. keep monitoring your moods. do you have any other support right now?? keep coming in here if you need to to vent. i'm just kinda pissed right now that a doctor would just tell you it's hormones. no shit, doc. it's also a neurotransmitter thing too.
ratgrl
(((shinyx))) Welcome to the thread. Since you're pregnant and meds are probably not an option for you, then yeah, you should look into alternative treatments. It would be terrible for you to go for another 5 month feeling this way! Best of luck to you.

Thanks to everyone who's asked about my biopsy status! I found out that everything was benign, so I'm physically OK.

About being able to tell if a medication is working: In my case, I noticed it exactly one week after starting the Effexor. I'd been on several other antidepressants before, and they're all different, but Effexor is the most recent one. So a few weeks ago, I was a wallowing, blubbering mess one day, and the next day I felt significantly better, so clearly it had to be the med kicking in. It's interesting how Effexor affects everyone so differently. I remember that you didn't like it at all, Mando. And Whitelighting, the side effects that you're experiencing are something else! If that doesn't resolve, I hope they give you something that works better.

Hugs to all,

Ratgrl
crinoline
Hi everyone
I've never posted in here before, and I'm sorry to just bust in, but I'm having some...difficulties right now, and this looks like the space to find support.

Well, my psychological background- I was diagnosed with chronic MDD at 13, spent years on various medications, Celexa (evil!), Prozac, Effexor, etc. I was in therapy until I was 19, at which point I decided to try to go it on my own and stopped all medication and therapy. As a teen I had really needed the intervention, and I truly believe that my psychologist saved my life, as I was in very real danger of suicide for a few years. I did some experimenting with cutting and other forms of self punishment. At 19 I felt that I was out of immediate danger and wanted to see if could manage my depression through force of will. I've done alright, there've been some downs, but I'm still here. I'm 22, by the way. Oh, and I am bulimic, and have been since I was 11, that may be relevant. Sorry for the long history, I just felt that my current situation may be better understood knowing where I've come from.

So I'm in college, a psychology major, with hopes of achieving a Phd and helping people the way my therapist helped me. I was, until moments ago, up for acceptance into an honors program that would have sent me straight into grad school with stellar recommendations. My parents were really counting on it. I say moments ago because I just found out that I failed the exam my acceptance had been hinging on. I have had math disabilities my entire life, and this statistics course has been draining me. I don't know if ya'll know what it's like to truly try your best at something and yet still fail completely, but that's what I just did. I did everything possible to study for this exam, practice quiz after practice quiz, formula drills, hours of reading and working on problems. I actually did worse on this exam than the first one, for which I had not studied as hard. I should mention that this is a basic, dumbed down for psych majors only, stats course.

I'm at a point where I just don't know what to do. I've done my best, but it's not enough. Where do I go from here? If I can't pass this course, and that looks like the reality, then I cannot finish my degree.

For the first time in years I'm feeling the familiar hopelessness of depression. The deep sinking darkness and self-loathing.

Anyway, I apologize for the novel. Hang in there everyone, I hope you all feel better soon
annelise
crinoline, is there some way you can talk to your instructor about the importance of this exam and your math disabilities?

i had a lot of anxiety about math in college, and would get panicked during tests. i'd just sit there and hyperventilate and cry quietly--i couldn't focus on the math at all. i talked to my instructor about it, and she gave me an extra hour to take exams. i was good at calculus--it was the anxiety getting in the way--and once i had some extra time to get over the panic, i did really well with both of my calc courses. i might have failed rather than getting an A- if my instructor hadn't been so understanding.

that's different from a math disability of course, but it seems like the same matter with your situation--finding faculty/administration that might understand or be willing to help.

my brother in law is a college prof and he says it's always clear which students are doing badly because they just don't care, as opposed to those that have genuine learning problems and work their asses off. i hope that you might be able to find someone who might recognize that you have the dedication and willingness to work, but you have a disability. there's gotta be allowances that can be made.

hugs to all.
little_idiot
Hi everyone,
I went to my doctor yesterday because I didn't have any refills left on my xanax and I figured it would be good to talk to him about the extreme anxiety I've been having. It's been pretty bad for the past month or so--I've been taking xanax every day and before I would take it very very rarely. Anyway also my stomach has been hurting constantly. I had an ulcer last summer so I thought it could have come back, but it also doesn't really feel the same--it feels more like (surprise!) real bad anxiety and I have *no* appetite. Anyway to the point--the doc gave me more xanax (thank god) but also said it's addictive and if this anxiety is something I'm dealing with every day, I should be on something else. I already take nortriptyline (a tricyclic anti-depressant) for my chronic headaches and the only thing he could give me that wouldn't risk an interaction with the nortriptyline is effexor. I searched this thread for effexor last night and found that a lot of you busties have tried it, with varying results. I've only taken one so far and I felt like I was underwater for a while--it was not a bad feeling though and I had also taken a couple xanax. So here are my questions:
--The main reason I'm taking this is for anxiety, not really depression. Has anyone taken it for anxiety, and did it help?
--One of the side effects listed in the packaging is weight loss. Has anyone experienced this? I have read that a lot of people gain weight on effexor but that's not listed as a side effect.
--How long should I stick with it before I decide if it's worth taking? I mean I'm pretty sure it'll make me feel weird for a while but will that go away?
--Any sexual side effects? The packaging says "abnormal ejaculation" is a possibility but nothing about the ladies...
--Probably the most important thing--going off effexor. I understand it can be pretty horrible-- for those of you who have been on it and gone off, did you have bad effects and if so, did you stop taking it suddenly or did you taper off? I have been prone to depression since I was about 13 but this is the first time I'm taking a pharmaceutical for it... I'm looking forward to some relief but I also don't want to feel like a zombie or a maniac or anything other than my normal self I guess.
Thanks a lot for reading this...
mandolyn
(((ratgrl))) benign is the most beautiful word in the english language. so so happy for you, chica! thanks for the update, i was worrying.

(((shiny))) ditto on what everyone else has said. if it helps any, i didn't love being pregnant, and sort of went thru a mild post-partum depression (mainly due to lonliness, this was 14 yrs ago, so no internet). do you love your ob/gyn? because my gut reaction is to tell you to go to someone else for a second - and hopefully more helpful and caring - opinion.


(((crinoline))) i think annelise's words of wisdom are spot-on. talk to the prof. and please don't let this trigger you into a backward slide. i know this is a raw blow, but try to focus on how far you've come and how well you've been doing. you sound like you've got a good inner core of strength going on.

(((annelise))) thank you for "when you're feeling that down, it doesn't matter if it's "just hormones". it still feels like crap." i must needs to remember this too.

(((WL))) how you doing, hon?

and you, (((GT)))? how's the job search/painting going?

knorl, wise words indeed. on a silly and superficial level, i look at therapy as an hour of me-time, with someone who doesn't mind if i whine. but deep down, it's learning about the story of me. most importantly, filling in the gaps, or at least trying to figure out why & how the gaps have affected me.

grueling therapy session yesterday ... so much so that we went 30 minutes over without realizing it. i am feeling better and better about choosing her. even when i come home exhausted.

(((everyone)))

x-post with little_idiot: i'm dealing with anxiety also, and tried effexor, but i had nasty side effects, and went off it after only two days, so i'm sorry, i'm no help. some people in here have had great results with effexor. i hope you do too.
girltrouble
(((((((((sighers)))))))))
congrats ratgrl. that is great!!!!!
keep your head up shiny. you will get thru this. (((((((mega hug)))))

mandy, the job search is not going very well, but on the upside, i have some savings, and lots of distractions and my friends are being super supportive. (thank god)

next week i am going to try to start a couple of paintings, which is my prozac. i can't think of anything else when i'm painting, which is good because i am expecting the depression in the next two weeks. but there is good news on that front two. about a month ago i met a great lady who runs an art gallery who i'm becoming friends with. she might be coming over to see my work next week. i just want to keep myself busy so i haven't got time to think.

i'm glad you found a good therapist. it really does make a HUGE difference. and if you're coming home exhausted, that's good. means your doing some hard work. (((((mandy))))) so happy for you.



annelise
that's really wonderful about your therapist, mandolyn. really good to hear that you've found a practitioner that you can feel positive about.

little_idiot: here's my experience with effexor, fwiw. i went on it with the hope that it would help my energy (i've tried just about every antidepressant with this hope!). it didn't, but so it goes. from what i've read, effexor and wellbutrin are both a class of drugs that don't typically cause sexual side effects. that's been my experience with both of those drugs as well.

as for effexor's effect on mood: after a few weeks on it, i was dramatically less emotional--so much so that i wasn't quite sure i felt like myself (i'm an emotional person, and that's not all bad!). it was lucky that i was so calm at that particular time though. i ended up getting in the largest fight of my life with my parents, and would have been a sobbing wreck, but i just shed a few tears casually, went upstairs and went to sleep. i wasn't *totally* zombified--i recognized that it was a bad situation living with them and moved out. i just happened to be on that drug at a point when i might have otherwise had a nervous breakdown. (there was talk of my parents disowning me. it was rather dramatic.)

going off it is tough, and i initially went off it cold turkey, which was a BIG MISTAKE. but once i tapered gradually off of it, it was okay. i went very slowly and it took a lot of patience, but it was doable.

it's a strong drug, certainly. but that also means that it has a lot of potential to help depression and anxiety. i hope that it can help you--it typically takes 4-6 weeks (iirc) for an AD drug to fully kick in, though that seems to vary with individuals. good luck with it!

eta: i didn't have any change in my appetite/weight while i was on effexor.
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