I'm sorry, but I really have to agree with Pepper on this one. After being vegetarian for 8 years and vegan for 1 year, I get so frustrated when people change what the words mean. I knew a girl at school who called herself a vegetarian but still ate meat in "social situations." I know countless people who call themselves vegetarians but eat fish and occasionally chicken. And now that I'm vegan, I want people to know that it means I do not support any animal product entering my body. Even if it came from my own house/chickens, I would choose not to eat it because I don't want to use my animals for anything. Yes being vegan is a stand against cruelty but it is also a stand against any animal product being consumed. Regardless of whether or not the animal product was obtained in a humane matter, it is still a person using an animal strictly for eating something we consider to have a pleasing taste. I will not use animals just because I like eggs or cheese. I think that is what vegan means.

Also, I have worked my butt off to find out all of the secret little animal-derived ingrediants that are in foods so I can avoid them as much as possible. When I hear someone calling themselves vegan but they still eat eggs, it's like my hard work was worth nothing. I worked hard to earn the right to call myself a vegan.

I'm not "using the animal strictly for eating its eggs." I have several birds and not all of them even lay eggs. They're pets. Is that wrong? You have a dog, and there are some vegans who would tell you that you're bastardizing "their" definition of vegan by subjugating an animal. The word Vegan is not "yours" to own. Every time I turn down a cake made with cage-free eggs because they're not MY cage-free eggs I'm not going to say to people, "No thanks, I'm a vegan-well-technically-a-vegetarian-who-doesn't-consume-milk-or-eggs-except-the-eggs-that-come-from-my-own-backyard."
because nobody cares.

I know a lot of people that it matters to.

And yes, I have 4 dogs but they came from shelters which means they would have been euthanized if nobody had adopted them. And I don't use them for anything but providing them a good home with plenty of love.

What militant vegans don't understand, is that it is 100% impossible to be "vegan" by that definition. Sidewalks aren't vegan, tires aren't vegan, records aren't vegan as well as a multitude of other common things that EVERY vegan uses in their everyday life.
I still don't understand why I am any less vegan to them and insult them by eating about a half cup of honey each year.
Maybe I'm just old, and was militant just like them when I was a teenager and in my early 20's and now realize that being like that is pretty ridiculous. There is no reason for someone to judge or have their own veganism threatened because someone calls themselves vegan and they have exceptions for themselves.

But anyway, I try not to label myself at all. When people ask me about my diet, I usually just try to avoid it, because its for me, and for animals everywhere, not for them. But, yes, I do consider myself vegan to the fullest extent and will never go back to consuming the animal products I gave up so very long ago. The only thing I have gone back to eating is honey, because I have no choice where and how I live. And really, local beekeeping and chicken keeping, is not anymore cruel than having a companion animal, even if you "rescued" it. And yes, I have a dog too.

Oh yah, and I don't consider anyone who eats meat once in a while vegetarian, or people who eat dairy or eggs once in a while vegan. But if they do it cruelty free, yes, that is vegan to me. Fuck dictionary definitions.

Now, this is why I hate talking to people about vegetarianism/veganism.

straight:gay:bi :: carnivore:vegan:vegetarian?

ok, well that was sort of unneccessarily bitchy. i copied and pasted the definition from a website. sheesh.

and i'm not being the vegan police either, more like the language police. if it's that important for people to wear the vegan label without following vegan principles go ahead. just know that when you say you are vegan it means to most people that you Don't use animal products. it doesn't seem all that honest to me to make the definition fit what you want it to when you know the true meaning of the word. any word, not just vegan. what is the point of misusing language exactly?

yes, many things are unavoidably non-vegan but that is included in the official definition "Veganism denotes a philosophy and way of living that seeks to exclude, as far as possible, all forms of exploitation of, and cruelty to, nonhuman animals".

i have house cats, rescue animals but still, i can't call myself a vegan while supporting the process of keeping captive animals and supporting the "pet" industry.
if one is eating a strictly vegan diet it could be said that they 'follow a vegan diet' instead of that they are a vegan. these may seem like small differences but to many people they matter very much and i honour that. i'd never call myself a vegan.

so, what was the transition of being a vegetarian to vegan like for those of you who went vegan? just curious.

I was vegetarian for 8 years before I became vegan (a year in December!). I had been wanting to do it for a long time, but I loved cheese. I finally got some sense knocked into me when I read "Vegan Freak" which basically told me all the reasons why I knew I should cut out the dairy. The transition itself was kind of intimidating. I have no close friends that are vegetarian, much less vegan, so I was on my own. My husband wasn't too excited either because he knew it would seriously limit the places we could go out to eat at. (Don't get me wrong, he is supportive. But by me becoming vegan, he eats vegan a lot too since I cook. So it kind of got forced onto him...). I got several cookbooks and started working with alternatives to eggs (bananas work great!). It's getting easier every day and I feel 100% proud of myself now knowing that I took that extra step to cut out all animal products. I still miss cheese, though!

(On a side note, switching all of my bath/makeup/cleaning/etc products was a pain in the ass. That may have been more difficult than switching foods. I still can't find a great, affordable vegan shampoo.)

vegweb

this is the site that i like, finally got around to posting.


as a side note, did ya'll know that brown sugar isn't vegan friendly? something about the cane being filtered through bone particular matter.

jesus christ. it's hard enough to try to avoid gelatin, and now this left-field shit.

most brown sugar and regular sugar is processed through bone. It is VERY hard to find vegan sugar in general.

Yep, I knew about the sugar. It sucks. When I read "Vegan Freak", there were lots of things I didn't realize had animal products in them. Regular condoms aren't even vegan. They have a milk protein in them.

sucanat is just dried cane sugar juice, not much processing at all.

so many things aren't vegan or veg, like glue. envelops, stamps, stickers. sigh.

For my vet tech class night, I had to practice skin scrapings on chicken livers! It was so gross. And people actually eat those things...

Anyone tried toasting vegan marshmallows before? The only veggie marshmallow I’ve had before is the fluff, and it’s so tacky and disgusting. I want to know if they will work well.

We’re going camping this summer, and I want to make s’mores with kiddo. I never feel like she is being left out or limited in her experience by being raised vegetarian, but I love the ritual of melting marshmallows to make s’mores! It was an integral part of my childhood, and I get excited to think about doing it!

I've never tried vegan marshmallows before, Christine. I guess you could buy them and try them at home first to test them. Let me know how they taste. And congrats on raising your kidlet as a vegetarian.

I do know that the Sweet & Sara ones torch just dandy, CN. Had 'em at a BBQ.

vegan marshmallows? really? wicked cool! little will be so thrilled. you should have seen his face when he found out they were made w gelatin. "boiled pig bones? eewww!!"
now we just need to find graham crackers with no hydrogenated oils and we'll be all set!

I second the Sweet & Sara marshmallows too. They are very good.

This thread hasn't been written in for a few months but I need to resurrect it because I have a question or two about becoming a vegetarian (I hope this isn't a purely vegan thread).

I don't eat a lot of meat as it is so it's really no problem to cut it from my diet. I might miss it every so often but I eat a lot of fruits and vegetables (and other meatless/meat-free foods) out of habit so it won't bother me to stop eating it altogether. I've been reading up a lot about vegetarianism online and I guess the more "popular" kind of vegetarianism is lacto-ovoa vegetarianism. That being said, I guess my question is would it be morally wrong to eat eggs as this kind of vegetarian? Even if they come from free-run chickens?

I guess you kind of need some background information. It's kind of hard to explain why I want to become a vegetarian because I have more than one reason - like I said, I don't really eat meat to begin with, I don't feel healthy when I do eat meat (a lot of the times I am very intolerant to it), and also because I am a huge animal lover. If I actually look past the packaging that meat comes in at the grocery store and think about what the animal actually went through to get into that neat, misleading packaging, it just immediately turns me off. I don't want to be part of that. There are also other economical factors I have been reading about as well (eg: how much more resources it takes to "grow" a pound of beef vs. a pound of vegetables). It just makes more sense to me to become a vegetarian and I truly want to be one for myself, not for anyone else or for any "status" it may bring.

I don't know why eggs are of the most concern to me. I don't eat them all the time, but I do enjoy them, I just don't want to eat something that potentially harms the chickens that make them (because I think most everyone these days knows what happens at poultry farms). I guess I'm just wondering what you all think about this, and also if you have any tips or anything for someone who is just starting their journey into this different way of life. I would definitely love to hear anything you have to say.

Honestly, I love the Lounge because pretty much everything has a discussion topic and so many Busties to help out!

I'm "seeing" you all over today, Rogue! I didn't even notice this thread before, I'm so happy you made it pop up on the forum board.

I've been a vegetarian for about 15 years...the reasons you gave for your interest in vegetarianism are nearly identical to my own. The classic works like "Diet for A Small Planet" had a tremendous influence on me. Over the years I've kept reading and learning about the meat industry, the global impact, the waste, the danger to human and animal lives. I feel it's one of the best decisions for me,personally I have ever made.

The great thing about going vegetarian is you set your own moral agenda. Many vegetarians choose to eat free-range eggs and many choose not to. If you eat eggs and later decide you feel uncomfortable eating them, you can simply stop. For most people, vegetarianism is a personal journey. Unfortunately nearly EVERYTHING contains animal products...vinegar, sugar, beer, are some sources most people don't think of. Or there's the rennet (enzymes from the lining of a baby calf's stomach) in most all cheeses. I would say to keep reading and researching and to follow your own sense of ethics.
To specifically address the egg question, I fear the "cage free" label means very little and doen't prevent chickens from being "debeaked". You always have the option of going to small farmers markets for your eggs and asking directly. I grew up in the country and my relatives were small farmers. They let the chickens run all over the place. Sadly the days of family faarms are almost gone. I am not vegan, but I do end up eating most of my meals that way simply because rennet free cheeses are difficult to find/expensive. I have gone through a completely vegan stage before and would never eat out because of the whey in the bread or butter on the veggies in restaurants. I'm not that militant anymore...I wish our society was more veggie/vegan friendly Anyway, good luck with whatever veg. style you decide to go for...whatever it is, I'll bet you feel better doing it.

Hey KW! Thanks for replying to me. It's awesome that you've been a vegetarian for so long. I mean, I know it sounds stupid but it's just amazing to me when someone can make a committment like you have. I'm just starting out so it's been a little difficult for me - not as bad as I thought it would be - but even this morning I was driving by McD's and really wanted a sausage McMuffin before I remembered that I'm not doing that anymore. And personally, I'm better for it anyway.

As for the egg question, I was thinking about the chickens still being debeaked even if they are free-run chickens. We have a farmer's market here in my city every Saturday morning and I was thinking about going to get my eggs from there and talking to the farmers about it, but even then they could just lie and tell me that they don't mistreat the chickens and I would be none the wiser, you know? I really don't think that such large-scale abuse would happen on farms in my province, though. I know that sounds naive but it's true - I don't think there are really any "corporation farms" here. I could be wrong but it would shock me. And it's not even like I eat a lot of eggs, but I don't want to contribute to any kind of forced egg laying like I've read about, you know?

I just feel really good about this decision to change my lifestyle. It's come at a perfect time - it's easier to do now that I am living on my own and now that I am "allowed" to buy whatever I want because I am paying for all of my own things. It's a long story but with Ex I wasn't allowed to buy anything he didn't like (see the "taking up the whole damn bed" thread; I am a little crazy for lemons right now because of it). Anyway, that's another story. I just feel like I am making the right choice. I won't shove it down other peoples' throats that I don't eat meat. I'm just happy that I've stopped.

I think for most veggies, it becomes very easy to not eat meat. For one thing, I haven't eaten it in so long, I don't even think of it as food anymore. Sometimes when neighbors are having a barbecue, something will smell good, but it's more that I'm responding to the smell of the sauce or the garlic and black pepper.

Also, once you stop eating meat you feel relieved of the guilt enough that you can stomach reading/watching more about the meat industry. Which really strengthens your resolve to go veg.

On the McD's thing...I remember in my early veg years ordering "meatless McMuffins". Every once in awhile I get a craving for one of those egg/cheese mcmuffins. Of course, after so many years of reading things like Fast Food Nation (and watching the film version) and seeing the documentary SuperSize Me, I really even hate to buy coffee from McD's.

From the background info you gave, you strike me as a natural vegetarian. I think the issue might continue to haunt you through out your life if you don't find a way to make peace with it. That's a beautiful thing when a person's sense of ethics prods them to analyze and change their life. Most people prefer to ignore things that make them uncomfortable rather than make difficult personal decisions. I remember being around 20 years old and having flirted with vegetarianism, cutting down on red meat, etc. Then one day I just decided I was never going to eat meat agian. It really was that simple. I didn't know about rennet in cheese, so I continued to eat pizzas and some of the comfort food I enjoyed. (And if the idea of giving up cheese is overwhelming to you, I highly encourage you to keep right on eating it, too. Stay away from people who see this as a contest and want to play "supervegan". There are not too many, but they ARE out there, and vegetarianism should not be about our egos).
In closing, I hope your family is supportive...sometimes mothers can feel a sense of rejection when their children grow up and reject the food they were raised on. If your mom, should feel this way ask her to help you come up with a vegetarian version of one of your childhood favorites so she'll feel needed by you. (I know that sounds nutty, but now that I'm a mommy I understand).
P.S. Asking local farmers about their farming practices is an excellent idea. My family raised chickens and nobody ever debeaked or caged them. They were free to run around as they wished. It likely IS the same way on small Canadian family farms.

Hey there ladies, long time no see!
I have been doing some research (trying to anyhow) on naturally occuring transfats with little luck. Does anyone have info specific to the health impact of transfats in meat and dairy?

I found this at wiki

The US National Dairy Council has asserted that the trans fats present in animal foods are of a different type than those in partially hydrogenated oils, and do not appear to exhibit the same negative effects.[37] While a recent scientific review agrees with the conclusion (stating that "the sum of the current evidence suggests that the Public health implications of consuming trans fats from ruminant products are relatively limited") it cautions that this may be due to the low consumption of trans fats from animal sources compared to artificial ones.[4]

I've been googling and asking around but I can't find any research to back up the claim that these naturally occuring transfats are, in fact, harmless. I'm wondering too about the effect of heat on transfats in animal products. We're vegetarian but I'm not adverse to cutting out all animal products altogether. I don't agree with factory farming and can't afford free range organic and don't feel it neccessary to eat anyhow. Eggs and cheese can be tasty but I can easily do without.

Thanks!

Hey Pepper, there might be some information through U.S. Dept. of Agriculture. From what I've read, 80% of trans fat is obtained from processed foods and 20% of trans fat are occur naturally in some foods. In regards to trans fat being harmless, from what I've read, it seems like, with most things, moderation/balance is key to any diet. I think the less processed foods one eats then the better your diet and your body's ability to process nutrients and toxins.

ETA: Anyone going to read Eating Animals? Seems like an interesting read.

The USDA is such a questionable source on anything that affects their own funding. They still won't admit that there is any difference between organic methods of farming and factory farming in terms of quality of the product (if you can call a cow or egg a "product").

One of my favorite nutritionists is Marion Nestle. She's written a few good books that talk about the chemical make-up of fats, including her latest book "What to Eat". She was the nutritionist interviewed in "SuperSize ME", BTW. Whie I would agree that trans fats in natural foods would be better than in processed foods, it doesn't mean the meat/dairy foods don't still cause heart disease and cancer.

All my research so far, and it's skimpy at best, indicates that the transfats in diary and meat are just as damaging as manufactured transfats. That's one reason why the recommended daily intake is so low (under 2gm/day), most people get enough with a standard diet and any more is overkill.
Big surprise that there is little info to be had and any that there is is couched in mysterious lingo that takes some deciphering. Can't go around saying milk, eggs and meat aren't good for us now can we. Just look what happened to Oprah!

No problem, I can cut out dairy entirely. No sense eating something that we know is terrible for us if we can do without. I won't miss it, it's bungs me up anyhow.

Have you found out much about eggs? I constantly read that vegetarian-fed chickens given a healthy environment produce eggs with high levels of omega fatty acids and lower levels of cholesterol...but then I read that the conditions of these "humanely" raised chickens are really no better than factory farmed chickens and the whole claim is a petty attempt at justification for the $4/carton price of "organic" eggs.

I'm sorrt of where you are with diet: a long-time vegetarian (not vegan). I drink (and prefer) soymilk, but occasionally I buy rennet-free cheese, organic eggs (when they are on manager's special at the grocery store), and Stoneyfield yogurt. My consumption of animal products is pretty small...I worry more about supporting the terrible meat/dairy industry than I do about the health consequences.

I'm so ridiculously blessed in that department, the librarian has happy free chickens and she gives me eggs now and then. There are several menonite homesteads around that sell free and happy chicken eggs too so if I ever want them, there they are. Those bokkers eat BUGS man, a totally natural diet. Still, we consume them sparingly.
I've been using a B12 supplement for myself and the kids just because I want to be sure we're getting enough and I'm thinking about Vit D too lately. Seems like a good idea for us since it's starting to get really grey out. I never thought dairy was a great source of calcium before anyhow but it's hard to get enough greens and seeds into kiddies so adequate D would help them absorb whatever calcium they are getting via diet plus the bit that's in their multivits.
We use rice milk when we need a subsitute (baking, tea, cereal) but not very much of it. I've nearly eliminated our intake of soy, too controversial for me and especially for the boy in the family. I don't eat any of that fake meat stuff anyhow, the kids think it tastes like meat and they don't like meat. Of course, ha ha. It's funny how the more you learn about what's healthy, the less you feel like you can eat. I mean, it's nearly all just whole foods now, I am suspicious of anything that comes in a package. You'd think that would be a drag but I'm kinda getting used to it. Kinda. it's hard with school lunches and quick meals, sometimes there are way more boxes and containers in the cupboard than I like to see. Oh well, we do our best.

I read a terrific book (well, part of it anyhow) called In Defense Of Food which talks about how we've reduced foods down to the elements that we know are in them and we use that as a measure of each one's dietary value instead of looking at the whole. It's far more complicated than that, of course, but it had an enormous impact on the way I regard food and nutrients. It's a terrific read, really worth picking up.

I agree cow milk SUCKS as a source of calcium. You're better off with greens and calcium-fortified orange juice. I was so happy when Physicians for Responsible Medicine went after the dairy industry for their scurrilous Got Milk ads. Of course, people think I'm CRAZY when I bring this up. SO many people believe they will die if half their diet is not made of animal products.
As far as supplements, I sometimes supplement with B12, too... and now especially since I'm breastfeeding I focus on my iron. I really have to be impressed with the sneakiness of the food industry. In one generation they got people thinking that highly processed degenerated foods were normal. In the 1950s, people wouldn't touch this crap. Now it's practically all people eat. McFood and phood (to borrow from another of your posts). Phood, heehee, I love that!

I'm glad I came across this forum, you all have given such great insight into living a vegetarian/vegan lifestyle, and I can take some of your advice.

Lately, I've been reducing my meat/dairy intake. It's hard, to know what to eat that is healthy and how long animal products can stay in the body. I like eating nonfat plain Greek yogurt, eggs with almond milk and butter (though I tried olive oil instead of butter today and thought it tasted very good), and grilled chicken cutlets with olive oil. I also eat chocolate, like good dark chocolate. It's hard to give these things up or eat them sparingly. I don't like beef or pork, hardly eat turkey or fish or ham, prefer almond milk as a flavoring rather than just drinking straight milk, and try to get calcium from eating spinach, kale, and yogurt.

I don't think I'll be a true vegetarian, probably still eating chicken or fish when with family just to be polite, but in my everyday life, I'd like to reduce eating animal products not only for ethical reasons, but to help my stomach, which can have trouble digesting things and feel bloated or irritated. I already don't eat much wheat/gluten and like eating brown rice for fiber, but I don't want to feel like I have excess dairy/meat sticking around in my stomach (these thoughts came from reading The Idiot's Guide to being a Vegetarian, for some basic 101). I was a vegetarian for four years as a teenager, but ate a lot of heavy carbs and soy frankenfood, and when I changed my diet and ate meat again, I lost weight.

I like eating tofu, though I avoid soy products like soy burgers/hotdogs/yogurt, and get split whether something dairy/gluten-free with soy is good, or bad because it has soy. I feel lucky to be able to do some shopping at local health food stores. I want my body to feel healthier, clearer (and yes, a little thinner). It's hard because I read fitness magazines that offer diets that include lean meats and nonfat plain yogurt as good, healthy things to eat, but I want to reduce eating animal products, even if I'm not going to be a strict vegetarian.

I've been vegetarian for almost 20 years so I guess I have something to input in this thread (never knew we had a veggie busties thread!). Anyway, I'm not vegan but I eat dairy very seldom. I occasionally eat eggs but buy the organic free range when we do have eggs ($3 doz from Trader Joes). Other than that I have cheese only when we eat pasta, and then it's just a sprinkle to 'taste', and like Anna I LOVE nonfat plain greek yogurt (again trader joes yum!). That's the only dairy I eat. On my cereal I have organic soy milk. I chose soy milk purely because it has more protein than almond or rice milk and the amount of exercise I do I need the protein.

I like some 'fake meat' products, but in general don't eat much processed foods. I do like the Tofurkey sun dried tomato sausages, great source of protein for my busy days. The trick is to look closely at the processed foods and figure out which is the lesser of the evils, lol.

As for soy I really don't think it's as bad as all the scaremongering that's going on. What I DO think is the problem is the regular soy as almost all regular soy (as with corn/maize) found in foods is the gentically modified stuff. I do beleive that the GM soy is the problem for many of the problems associated with soy. If Soy is such a high source of estrogen and is causing men to grow breasts (as per some of the claims) then why the hell am I still a 34A? LOL! I have 2-3 portions of soy a day (soymilk on breakfast, soy tofurkey sausage are in my regular daily meals). By all accounts for the soy I am consuming I should have bigger boobs!

Books: in defense of food as someone mentioned really anything by Michael Pollan, Animal Vegetable Miracle, and the china study are also good books

Anna K : In my book, good dark chocolate is a health food and (almost daily neccessity).
I don't worry about soy either...but I don't like GMOs and I try to avoid highly processed foods. I really, really try to avoid highly processed foods...just because they may be vegetarian or fat-free or whatever does NOT make them nutritious. I DO buy veggie burgers/"chick" patties now and again, but it really is not too hard to make your own. As far as diets go, I think we North Americans need to think more like the French and Italians. These are people who love to eat and love good food...yet they are rarely fat (especially compared to us). I've tried their way of life. WHen I eat REAL food and whole grains, I rarely need to worry about my weight. (Yes, I HAVE had weight problems before...I am not a naturally skinny person). Every time I get lazy and start cooking out of boxes and cans, my weight goes up. It never fails. And processed foods are so expensive! We have the idea that fresh produce is expensive but research shows you can eat the recommended 5-6 servings of fruits and veggies for about 67 cents per day. (This study was done by taking the price of 50 of the most commonly available fruits and veggies). And when we buy produce in season it's more economical.
Now if only I could find a way to save money on that expensive dark chocolate.

Buy it in BULK! Mwah ha ha ha ha!

Pepper, good for you for kicking dairy! I think the issue of trans fat is just more reason to eat a plant-based diet.

Anna, congrats on making the decision to eat less meat! I made similar mistakes in the past by eating a high carb diet when going veg. I've learned to pay attention to how my body responds when I'm eating more fruits and vegetables. I seem to have more energy. Also, if you choose to be meat free, don't alter your choice to please others. You could also cook a meat free dish to introduce people into consuming less meat.

Ugh. Sometimes, I find the views on Jezebel to be kinda immature. I'm really getting annoyed (that's putting it mildly) with the intent on dissing vegetarians such as with their current article on Raising Vegetarian Kids. It is almost like they are encouraging folks to alter their beliefs so their kids won't have any "problems"...read:group think/pressure.

While I'm being kinda ranty....one of my pet peeves with people who choose to eat meat....apologizing to me for talking fondly about a meat based dish or liking meat in general. Dude, don't apologize for your choice. Just allow me the same opportunity to gloat about a veggie dish when I want to.

:sigh:

Ok. I feel better now!

Good to see this thread having some activity!

I agree stargazer that article was a little pessamistic about kids and vegetarianism. I would hope that the parents that raised veggie kids also gave them information about WHY they weren't eating meat and therefore informing them as to the health and ethical reasons for avoiding meat. As for peer pressure, these days it's the reverse. Kids are joining in on the 'special diet' bandwagon! I'd rather my kids (not that I am having any) be ridiculed for being vegetarian than being anorexic or bullemic or other eating disorders that kids suffer from!

The article they linked to also was a little pathetic. Seriously? This guy thinks vegetarians are missing out because they don't eat turkey at thanksgiving or go on "Sushi dates with their mom". I have NEVER eaten sushi, sorry not missing out I just don't find the idea of raw fish very appetizing. Also I can enjoy holidays just fine without the meat thank you! Seriously? Some people!

Thanks for sharinig that article, star...as a veggie mama I HAD to throw my 2 cents into the ring. It's true that kids are interested in other kids and how other kids live. But if you don't teach your kids to decide on their own values they are going to be the first to have sex in middle school and pick up smoking if they feel "all the other kids are doing it". WHAT a RIDICULOUS argument to bring up about vegetarian parenting. Gee. all the other families eat white Wonder bread and eat bologna and frankenfries...so we need to do it, too. You don't want your poor little child to feel left out of the childhood obesity and diabetes crisis, now do you?! American children are showing signs of heart disease as early as 8 years of age. I come from the school that if you raise your kids to love whole grains and natural foods they won't have to "learn to like them" later in life.

so true Koffeewitch!!! *applause*

Um, I was best friends with the lone veggie kid in grade school. She loved coming to my house because my mom cooked what she considered to be "normal" food & the girl would stuff herself. She loved hamburgers, beef stroganoff, pot roast, tacos & salsbury steak.

I'm glad that times have changed enough that there are more veggie options in my small community.

Spot-on, I didn't actually take that away from JSF article. I thought he was saying that the important thing was the stories and the time he spent with his grandma. In regards to the part where he mentioned sushi, I felt he was saying he thought that the food was the important part but realized that he needed to find other ways to connect to those memories. I really liked when he said his grandma was preparing humans, not food. The last line pretty much summed up the article: “If nothing matters, there’s nothing to save” when his grandma wouldn't eat the pork because it wasn't kosher. I'm actually not vegetarian (anymore) but I completely see how JSF and his wife are putting their politics into practice. I could apply that line to so many of my own beliefs. I actually really enjoyed the whole article.

*Full disclosure, JSF is my favourite author so I'm a little biased, however I really didn't read it the way you did.

I also agree that kids are interested in how other kids live, but pretty much all kids live on extremely varied diets. From the ones who only eat home cookin' to the ones who only eat frozen pre-packaged food. Besides having to tell friends that they can't eat meat, I really doubt kids would be ridiculed for that. I don't remember food politics having any kind of place in my elementary school, in any way. I'm sure they were there from the parents point of view, but as a kid, no way.

For the past two years, my son (age 6) has been extremely nosey about other people's eating. He literally walks up to strangers and asks "are you a vegetarian". He feels the need to tell every person we meet "Yes, we are vegetarians and we don't eat dead animals". But because he loves animals so much I feel like he has a personal interest in his diet aside from "mommy says it's good for me". I'm picking up a need from him to meet other veggie families (we homeschool so his method for socializing is different). Just this past couple weeks I did some google searches to find vegetarian kids clubs. I found a great club in our city, but I couldn't find much for kids on-line. Does anybody know of any veggie kids websites...or even sites for kids who love animals? I settled for signing him up for wild life kids club, but that's not exactly what I had in mind. I've posted this question on my homeschool forums and my local veggie kids group and nobody seems to know of anything.

Does anyone experience a bloating side effect with being a vegetarian? I've cut out a lot of meat/dairy from my diet over the past couple of weeks, and my stomach feels more bloated than before. I don't know if it came from eating more tofu and vegetables, or if this is a detoxing effect, but it didn't feel this bloated when I was on my prior diet that included grilled chicken and yogurt. I can always work out like I already do, but the bloated feeling makes it harder to wear my regular pants. Is it possible to eat small amounts of chicken and yogurt as I increase eating fruits and vegetables, as a way to get rid of the bloat?

I've had problems with digestion in the past, and take supplements which have helped before, but this veggie diet is making me feel more bloated.

I think diet affects everyone different. I have never experienced bloating on a vegetarian diet, except in one circumstance. I cannot eat an apple before I work out, even leaving "digestion time" I always cramp and bloat if I do. I think I recommended this to you before, but I'd switch back to your chicken diet then keep a strict exclusion diet log and see if you can find a trigger for your bloating. Took me a while to connect the apple and exercise but that's just how my body works I guess, we're all different and have different issues.

anna, i think that vegetables in general produce more gas than meat....just as a byproduct of digestion? certainly things like unfermented soy and legumes will. maybe that's contributing? if it's bloat related to water retention, then obviously disregard

Many people complain of gas when going veg. Most adapt okay after a given time. THere are also some tricks, like adding baking soda to the cooking water of beans to reduce gas. Usually an upside is less constipation with a veg diet (I, for one, hate being constipated)! Anyway, hopefully after a few months your body will do better.

I think it would fit better with my body to eat chicken a few times a week because the protein feels better for me than tofu, and having egg-white omelets and Greek yogurt. I have had bloating problems before, so this is something I'd like to avoid, and I think the more tofu I ate combined with more fruits/veggies increased this side effect. I tried being a vegetarian as a teenager, and was one for four years, but actually felt healthier when I returned to eating chicken and fish. Go figure.

egg white omlettes suck, try having the yolk aswell and just having a smaller portion. How anyone can eat an egg white omlette is beyond me! ewww

I didn't think it was so bad. I can always do one yolk with two egg whites, to retain some healthy fat.