datagirl, I'm 31 and bi. One would think I have more options but I've yet to find 'the one or even mr or ms. right now. I don't think you should just settle for the first person that comes along. Go have fun! Go out with lots of people. I'm kind of picky too, don't get me wrong, I've gone out on dates with a variety of people.. but so far no such luck.

I've hit a dry spell where no one seems even remotely interested and it makes me a little sad and lonely.

I thought that, after my last post, the Gods or whatever forces that be were on my side, and I landed a good one. It was an internet date and it went so, so well. I couldn't sleep that first night, could not wait to hear from him again, and it was mutual. Now, a month later, after meeting his mom, talking about the future, sharing everything on a reasonable schedule - he is freaking out and not communicating. I am losing sleep again, but not for the right reasons. I work out with a friend who is a psychologist and he made me feel so empowered about talking this out with him, because I know that right now he is under an enormous amount of stress and is telling me as much. So i tried, and he is "out" and won't talk, only text. That's a lousy way to have a heartfelt conversation.

I am so, so sad right now.

I don't know, how to put this without sounding like an arrogant ass, but I have an IQ in the gifted range, and I just cannot find a guy, who's on my level, and I get bored, when my intellect isn't challenged.

pherber, I used to wish to meet someone that was at least around my intelligence level, I am not 'gifted' but people tell me I'm intelligent even though sometimes I feel awkward and stupid... now, I think I'd just be happy with someone who could hold a decent conversation that goes beyond 'so how about this weather we're having...' I seem to meet those with no communication skills.

wow... many of were in gifted and talented, but I just have no idea to respond to that quote...
I just have always been attracted to men that were not as educated and not as intelligent... I have no idea... what I am trying to say... what you said just struck me

How can I be dating three guys and not be getting some tonight?

geekchickknits, I don't know, but I'd like to know your secret. I can get one interested party.

Actually, I just realized, how stupid my post was, putting it down to IQ.
To have more intellectual interests hasn't that much to do with it.
I think most people are just interested in their social life (job, family, friends) or entertainment.
So the conversations are all about, what gigs/movies you went to, what so-and-so did, etc.
That gets so boring after a while.

Muffy, my secret is.......

well, I'm not sure. To tell the truth, I'm not used to attention from so many guys, or really, guys in general. Feel good about yourself; wear minimal, natural looking make-up; accept what people are offering. That's what I've been doing lately.

My situation is this:
1. LDR overseas, so obviously not going to get any there, except for the odd cyberportions, which is really not fulfilling.
2. actorboy is an old flame/fuck buddy now friend, although lately we have been doing the fuck buddy thing again. He was under the weather.
3. dancerboy is a new addition, completely unexpected. Met him at work, and then again at a mutual friend's party where he set out to get me, and by golly, he did. He actually ended up coming through. See portions thread.

All are aware that they are not the only man in my life, and all are cool with that, although it's not like I give them details about each other.

There are also two ex-fuck buddies that have been trying to get hold of me recently, but to be honest, I'm not even keen on contacting them ICOE. With both of them, it's kind of "been there done that".

Rant ahead!!

Since when do guys need to be chased after? Did I miss something? They are always bitching about how girls do this, but they are just as bad!! Maybe worse!!!
I just don't understand, you think that someone totally digs you but then you have to jump though hoops to be with them. Is this some sort of "test"? Or do they not want to give away their power or something? Or is there just something I'm doing wrong? Man.... I am just getting too old for these stupid ass games.

sniggles, amen. i'm too old for games too. what's so hard about "I like you, let's spend time together" or "I don't like you as much, let's move on." i'm a big girl, i can take either.

and as a side note, yet another wedding stag coming up. this'll be fun.
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(crickets)

Just here reading posts. I don't actually want a dating relationship right now, as I just got out of two recently. What I really miss is having a dude to bum around with, you know, mostly as a friend. I grew up beside my bro, we were buds. My mom had mental issues, my dad was a calming presence, very relaxed, very quiet but very cool/nice. It's weird, again, I really don't want to be dating right now... would so much rather have girl friends and go out solo?. However, it sucks cuz I cannot be myself around most girls unfortunately, I always feel judged, like I have to PLEASE them somehow and I am nervous.. I *know* this is because of my relationship with my mom and I actually love girls it's just that I can't stop the anxiety when I'm around them. So I've been a serial dater and now seeing another guy-dating-relationship looming in the future simply because I want someone to hang out with. I just wish I could experience intimacy with girls, that way I wouldn't have to go into a dating relationship? (it's just that I don't want to fall in love again. (don't think I can take anymore after the last 5 years)

(hehe, peoples who know me from other threads are probably thinking how f*d up I am in how many areas)

um, jan, i'm confused. so, you would like have girls as friends, but insecurity sets in for you?? since girls make you feel uncomfortable, then you choose a lackluster relationship with a guy just to have some companionship?? am i following you correctly? your post was confusing.

if friends is what you want...then you might want to visit the socially inept thread or friendship thread.


i've actually wished i had a boyfriend right now. someone to share my time with here. i only have 3 months left so it kinda sucks. feels kinda awkward to start something. i've been tryin' to say i'm not frustrated with being single, but i am. truth be told. *sigh*

I'm at the point where I know I'd like a relationship at some point, but I'm just into my own stuff right now. I have so much on my plate and this is such a transitional time for me, that it's just kind of all about me at the moment. Sometimes I think I'd like someone around to hang out with, but these days I think I'm probably better off without someone else, at least for now. Less headache and heartache and more time to do my thing.

That's how I feel Zoya. When people ask why I'm not in a relationship right now I tell them that I'm at a really selfish point in my life. I just want to indulge myself and not have to worry about someone else. I also had this kind of silly realization yesterday that I'm totally waiting for someone who loves me just as much as I love myself, and for someone I can love as much as I love myself.

stargazer: Insecurity, yes. That's it exactly. Yes, I am a member of the socially inept thread. "Lackluster" relationship with a guy instead? No, not at all, I'm afraid that's where you're confused. My relationships with guys are good relationships, again, play fine with them when I find one where we can hang. Simply don't want to be with one now cuz I fear getting into something that might get serious, more than friends. Yes, it does get pretty confusing.

I just remembered, last night I was filling out one of those silly personality quiz's and it was pretty right on (except for the sexuality part which was waaaaaaaay off). One of the things it said was "You need someone who wants to be in a relationship, not someone who needs to be in a relationship to feel fulfilled". I thought that was just about the perfect way to describe who I'm looking for.

I have been thinking a lot about what I want lately because I really have no idea what I want. I'm having a great time being single and just having sex instead of a relationship, but I'm also very aware that I've never been out with anyone who completely knocked me off my socks. I think I'm sort of just waiting for that, but I'm not stressing about it all. I'm having fun while I wait, or while I wait to be ready to go out and really look for something serious. This is probably naive, but I think I'm just waiting until I happen to meet that special someone who's really going to wow me.

I met this girl that I think I kind of like, the funny thing is I'm not sure if we are currently dating or not, I don't know how I manage to get myself into these things. My friends have asked, I don't know I was okay with there not being any boundaries yet, I just met her - though none of my friends have yet to kiss me on the lips at the end of the night.

However, I think my best friend hates her. I brought her to a party, some of my friends met her, everything seemed really great. Everyone got along, which I always worry about. Until today when my best friend mentioned how chummy she is with his on again, off again BF, he seemed kind of pissed off about it. It upset me that he might not like her. Then later that day he asked how things were going with her?! I feel like I'm living in a soap opera!

I just need to vent......

I'm dating a couple of guys, and one of them....the more I see him the more I like him and want to spend more time with him. However, we're both kinda last minute people and he's been very hard to get a hold of recently. For example, his cell phone has run out of credits. I know he's going travelling soon, so is probably saving the money, and not worrying about buying more at this time - but it's still VERY frustrating. I do feel like I'm having to wait on him a little bit, which I really don't like.

And I'm horny as hell.

geekchickknits, I feel your pain... been there am sort of there now.

Why can't the right person just show up on my doorstep, minus the bullshit, like phone tag or silly childish games. No guesswork - they're into me, they say it, act on it. Wouldn't that be great?

muffy - ditto on that. I wish I could meet someone who just didn't keep me wondering. That I never had to wonder about their feelings or motives and could count on them.


I've kinda come to a place where I'm over the "I just want time to do my thing without anyone else." I'm getting pretty settled into my work, and life and I know that I'm not going to push that completely aside for someone - so I'm pretty ready to just meet someone. I'm so exhausted right now by the whole guy thing. When's it my turn to be that girl that some guy is so totally into that he'll move the earth for me, won't keep me guessing, and wants to stick it out with me - not running to the next thing? And how come I seem to meet the guys who aren't that for me, yet the very next girl they meet, they ARE into that way and able be that guy? Sometimes I feel like I'm the perennial transitional girl, and it feels like shit. There's so much about me that rocks, and yet no one seems able to - or cares to - want it.

I'm just feeling a wee bit mopey right now.... I was just watching the Emma Thompson movie of Sense and Sensibility - and I was saying to someone that I feel like Marianne right now.. I feel like I've just gone through a similar heart wrenching situaton, and all I want is an Alan Rickman at this point. (I'd take Alan Rickman.... )

ugh

zoya, I'd been feeling mopey myself this past weekend because I kept waiting around for that phone call that never came. Try to do something good for yourself: go to the beach or hang out with friends that will cheer you up, that seemed to work for me. By the way, stop watching sappy movies, I promise you that never makes it better.

thanks Muffy -

I've just kinda found out that someone that I had something with last year and have been trying to build a friendship with, was not what I thought they were at all - or I should say partially they won't cop to what I know they were, and partially weren't that person at all. and that's a bummer, because it sucks to lose respect for someone you had respect for, especially when you know all their friends, and etc.

I actually have been doing good stuff for myself.... Spent the evening last night with a bunch of girlfriends.. I've got some great friends, who actually don't even know why I'm kinda funky right now, and don't give a shit. They just wanna hang out. and that's nice and comforting. I'm actually good about the sappy movies, don't really dig watching them when I'm in this mode - Sense and Sensibility is the one that I can't ever give up, though. I don't find it that sappy - actually the Marianne storyline is one that makes me feel a little better, considering.

anyway, this too shall pass.....

Thanks muffy - I hear that.

What also frustrates me is that a lot of the time, guys don't think I'm being genuine. The guy I was venting about did end up calling me, and we went to see a movie. Afterwards, I wanted him to come home with me, but he'd had a really long day and we went to see the last show of the night, so he was too tired and needed to go to sleep. I was disappointed, but I understood, so I said "that's ok". And then he kept asking me if I was mad, or rather telling me I was mad. All because I thanked him for taking me to the movie.

Weird.

Has any online daters here had people send them insulting messages? I just don't understand why someone would do this.... I mean isn't the point to find a date? You really must have too much time on your hands if you feel the need to put someone down on an internet dating website. Normally something this stupid wouldn't bother me, I guess it just caught me off guard.

I've only had people send me insulting messages if I reject them without "getting to know them first". Um, I'm sorry. I thought we were in the casual sex section. The fact that you're shorter than me and over 50 isn't exactly turning me on.

And come on buddy......wouldn't you rather I be a shallow bitch than have me reject you on your own merits?

That's why I'm back on RL dating for now.

HA!! As immature as this may be I usually just ignore all the ones that don't interest me. I just figure why waste my time... and so many guys can be such jerks when rejected. I thought the online dating thing would be easier, but it's really just as bad as real life.... you gotta weed through so many tools to meet anyone decent. This guy that messaged me didn't have a pic, which speaks volumes. And on his profile he describes himself as a "nice guy". wtf.

sniggles, I usually avoid those who won't put up a picture, sure they could be putting up a picture of anyone, but I went through the trouble of getting a good photo of myself, I think they should do the same. I don't message people back if their profile doesn't tickle my fancy, if they fail to write a few sentences about themselves they are not getting any sort of response. I hate when people message me with things like 'your hot, message me' and nothing else on regular dating sites... and I'm supposed to what, want to jump their bones now? This is their pick up line?! call me picky but its not working with me.

Having done the internet dating thing for over 7 years now, and used many different websites, from paid sites to free, I've developed a few internet dating rules of my own to help me find what I'm looking for. Now, mind you, I'm not looking for casual sex...erm, any more. Heh. There was a time when I was, and the internet can be a great place to find it. But since I decided a few years ago that I was ready again for a stable, long-term relationship, I started to develop my list of rules/guidelines to help me find what I'm looking for.

1) No picture with a guy's ad? I won't respond. 4 times out of 5, I've found the guy doesn't include a pic because he's married or has a live-in girlfriend.

2) I won't IM with a guy, no matter how cute or persuasive he may be, particularly if he insists on IMing from our first contact. My experience with IMing is that it leads to insta-flirting. Which, while definitely fun, usually leads to the desire for an insta-hook-up, which is not what I'm looking for any more. I prefer the guy to put some time and thought into his e-mails to me. While I won't keep the e-mail conversation going forever (I mean, we do eventually have to meet!), a guy who won't take time to send some e-mails is a guy who won't take time to do other things either (such as date me before we knock boots; and take his time with oral sex once we do).

3) I won't keep the conversation going with a lazy e-mailer. As I wrote above, I like a guy who puts some time and thought into his e-mails. While I'm not expecting perfect grammar and spelling in an e-mail, I do expect a little consideration to be given to the language used in his messages to me. One, it shows me that he's willing to take time to communicate well (which is also an indication that he may take his time with other things), and two, it's an indication that he's a fairly educated guy and/or fairly well read (two things that I look for in a match).

4) To determine whether he's a lazy e-mailer or not, I usually ask the guy a couple of questions in my e-mails: favorite movies, music, books, food; what he does to pay the rent; what he likes to do in his spare time. While the guy may have answered these questions in his online dating profile, I like to see if he can expound a little on his interests. For example, so he says he's into Sleater-Kinney in his profile. I like to see if he can follow through with a little e-mail discussion of the band. Thoughtful answers to some of these questions (and the fact that he took the time to answer them) tell me a lot about a guy's motivations.


I thought I'd answer this one because I *have* received insulting messages online before. I've never received them from guys on paid sites, but I've received several when I've used free dating websites (big surprise), like myspace and Craigslist.

I don't use myspace as a dating website, but in the years I've been on, I've periodically been contacted by guys interested in dating. One of them was very insistent with me from the beginning that I IM him. I explained my reasons why I don't like to IM to him (much as I did in rule 2 above). But the guy continued to insist, and when I asked him to stop, he became insulting. I told him I'd report his messages to myspace admin if he didn't stop, at which point I received a barrage of messages from him calling me a "frigid bitch" and some simply with the subject line "fuck off bitch!" and no other message. I alerted the myspace admins and blocked the guy from contacting me, which stopped his messages to me. If memory serves, I believe myspace blocked the guy from using their site. The main reason why, though, was that the guy had used their website to send his messages. Had he used a personal e-mail account, they probably wouldn't have been able to block him.

I've also used Craigslist personals twice on a whim. I really wouldn't recommend it to anyone, but I wasn't in the best frame of mind when I put my dating ads on Craigslist, so it was quite an experience for me. Both times, I included a photo of myself with my ad and wrote something to the effect of, "I have a full time job, a car and my own place; I hope you can say the same." This was a result of meeting many sweet but unemployed/barely employed guys online, most of whom didn't have a car, and a couple of them still lived on their parents' property. Both times I placed Craigslist ads, I received numerous responses from guys calling me a 'fat cow,' 'fat golddigger' (I guess wanting a guy to have a job, car and place of his own means I'm a golddigger...heh), 'lose 50 pounds and then I'll date you,' etc.

Point being, the internet has created the phenomenon that more jerky guys can more easily find a girl who will have casual sex with them. Prior to the internet, these guys would have to look for girls to hit up in bars and clubs and would get shot down with more frequency. Now that the internet has given us a way to connect with people all over, and have conversations with people we wouldn't otherwise be conversing with, it's easier for these guys to invest in maybe a day or two of chatting with a girl (or in some cases, just a few hours) and they can find someone to instantly have sex with. It's also seemingly given them free reign to insult women online, as if making up for years of getting shot down in singles bars...even if a majority of these guys have never spent time in a singles bar. There's a lot of jerky behavior out there.

[/rant]

thirtiesgirl - I've been thinking about trying online dating. Thanks for all the tips! Are there any particular sites you recommend? My friend seems to have lots of luck with plenty of fish, so I was thinking of trying that one.

I just joined plenty of fish (also after hearing good things) and it's not going so great. The three cute guys that I messaged have not messaged me back at all (kind of a self-esteem killer). I'm starting to feel like I should just give up.

Can you check and see when was the last time they were online? Sometimes people just leave their profiles up when they've all but left the site.

I'm not sure. I know that OK Cupid does that. But two of the guys had actually viewed my profile after I messaged them. Meh.

These are the sites I've tried: nerve, yahoo dating, match.com, American Singles, J-Date (even though I'm not 'J' ~ Jewish ~ they're generally ok with non-Jewish people using the site, and I'm kinda into Jewish men), Plenty of Fish, Craigslist, and several paid dating websites for plus size people.

Here are some of my experiences: I first started using nerve when it was still a new site, before it became the massive website it is today (or so I assume it still is). I think because I was using it when it was still new, and internet dating itself was still a relatively new thing, I got a lot of responses on the site. None of the guys I met worked out, but I will say, of all the dating websites I've used, I received several serious responses on nerve (i.e., not guys just looking for casual sex). I'd be willing to bet things have changed a lot on nerve in the past 8 years, though.

I signed up for yahoo dating around the same time as nerve, mostly because yahoo was free, and nerve charged you a fee if you wanted to e-mail people on their website. Similarly to nerve, I got some serious responses on yahoo, but fewer of them. Again, none of them worked out. And by that I mean the guys would meet me once and not want to date me again because they didn't find me attractive, or, on a few occasions, it was obvious the guy had a lot of issues and *I* wasn't interested in dating him. One guy I met on yahoo had a live-in girlfriend who was out of town during the six weeks we dated. Which, of course, I didn't find out until after the fact. That was enough to stop me from using yahoo.

It was on match.com that I met my first real abuser of internet dating. Match has lots of bells & whistles, including an online IM service, so this guy started IMing me, being very flirtatious and fun, which I fell hook, line & sinker for. I was still relatively inexperienced with internet dating at the time, so I had yet to formulate my rule about no IMing. I was doing an internship at the time, so I had a lot of spare time on my hands, as my supervisors didn't really know what to do with an intern. Unfortunately, I got so hooked into IMing this guy that I'd often do it during my internship. I'd try to keep it to a minimum of 10 to 15 minutes every couple of hours, but for those of you who've done any IMing, you'll know that a LOT can be said in 10 to 15 minutes.

The more time I spent IMing this guy, it became apparent that all he wanted to do was flirt. He had no interest in discussing other things like his job, his interests, his marital status. He was so convincing, though, that against my better judgment (and, I have to admit, I was in a pretty desperate state of mind, too), I met him in person for coffee... and again, all he wanted to do was flirt - and extreme flirt, at that. When we met, he dared me to make out with him in public (and by 'make out' I mean hands down the blouse, hands up the skirt, etc.), open my shirt so he could see my bra, etc. While I might be ok with that level of flirtation if I'm in a darkened club, I wasn't going to do it in broad daylight at the corner Starbucks, with everyone around.

Eventually, I came to my senses and realized he and I were not looking for the same thing at all. I e-mailed a good friend about his actions, a woman who had an anthropological interest in internet dating and had spent some time studying it. She explained that he was only interested in extreme flirting, which is a particular sub-set of some people who use dating websites. All they want to do is extreme flirt. They have no interest in actual dating or trying to establish a relationship. They're interested in seeing how far you're willing to push the envelope as far as online and public flirting goes. The fact that I was IMing this guy from 'work' (aka, my internship) was a big aphrodisiac for him, as was seeing how far I'd go with the public flirting. The raunchier I got with my online flirting from work, the happier he was.

That was enough to put me off match.com, so I stopped using their website. American Singles was another site with a lot of bells & whistles, including an 'ignore' feature when you send someone a message on the site. If they check out your profile and decide they're not interested, not only can they choose not to respond, they can also put you on their 'ignore' list...which the website then tells you that they've done. While I was on American Singles, I found a guy who I thought I had a lot in common with. I work in education, and he's an 8th grade math teacher, my age, good looking, into indie film and music like me... so I thought we had some commonalities. When I sent him a message on the site, he decided to 'ignore' me. Which the site then told me. "TeacherGuy2002 has decided to ignore you. He is not interested in any further responses." Yeah, way to go, there American Singles! Way to boost a girl's confidence!

The other problem I've had with so many internet dating websites, free and paid alike, is that there are always so many guys looking for casual sex. If that's what you're looking for, the internet is definitely the place to find it. If you're looking for something else, there's a lot of weeding out to do. At least, from my experience. And websites for plus size people are no different. Plenty of guys looking for casual hook-ups there, too. The only difference is, I've met several guys on those sites who also are into fetishizing fat.

If that works for you (collective you, here; I'm not speaking to anyone in particular), go for it. Personally, I want to be valued for everything I bring to a relationship: my intelligence, humor, sex appeal, independence, and a really good collection of music, if I do say so myself. I don't just want to be fetishized for my fat. So I found the plus size dating websites didn't really work for me either.

Plenty of Fish was the last free website I used, and after another bad internet dating experience last year (I met a guy for coffee six weeks after he'd just gotten divorced. Yeah. SIX WEEKS. Which, of course, he didn't tell me while we were e-mailing. He saved that for our first date, after which I quickly finished my coffee and said goodbye.), I kind of put my internet dating life on hold for a while. I needed to take a breather and get my confidence and motivation back up.

Earlier this year, a girl friend of mine talked me into joining Geek2Geek which is a relatively new website for people looking to date some brainier folks. (I have to admit, I've met a lot of sweet but rather unintelligent guys on other dating websites. I mean, some of them seriously can't even spell.) I was hesitant to sign up, but my friend convinced me. The first 6 weeks, things were pretty much the same as other websites. I wasn't getting a lot of interest, and the few guys who did contact me turned out to be flakes. (It's also still a fairly new website, so there aren't a whole lot of people on it yet. Meaning, not as large a selection of men as other websites.) But about 5 weeks ago, a guy contacted me on the website, and we've been talking ever since. We had our first date 2 weeks ago, and while it's a long distance thing (he lives 5 hours away from me), he really seems interested in me and he's the first sincere guy I've met online in a long, long while.

In defense of internet dating, I do know several people who have met, successfully dated and gotten married to people they've met online. In fact, one of the counselors at the school where I previously worked met a guy on Craigslist, of all places, and they got married last year. So apparently it is possible to find what you're looking for online. But from my experience, you have to know what you're looking for, be specific about it, do a lot of weeding out, and kiss a lot of frogs. (This includes the occasionally married but lying guy, too. I've met 3 of them in the years I've been internet dating.) ...And candycane_girl, flakiness is very typical of guys on dating websites. I can't count the number of times I've sent a message to guys and never received a response. It sucks, but it's par for the course with internet dating.

When you get a response from an interested guy, my recommendations are spend some time e-mailing with them (at least a week or two) and talking on the phone before meeting them. And then always meet them in public the first few times. Never go over to their place at first, or invite them to yours, and don't allow them to pick you up in their car. Just be careful, use some common sense, and let a friend or someone know where you're going, who you're meeting, etc. Once you feel comfortable with them, and your judgment is telling you that things are ok, you can take it further.

Damn. Sorry, ladies. Another long-ass post. Brevity has never been my strong suit.

thirtiesgirl, I have a best friend whose last bf and current were people he met on the internet so I guess it has worked for some people.

I met my last girlfriend on the net, several years ago. I haven't had a relationship since. I've been on dates but no one who actually seems interested in more than a date or two : ( I'm on OKcupid right now and well its okay. I haven't met anyone recently from there. There's plenty of people that seem interesting enough but they all seem to be window shopping, its really discouraging. I had tried Geek2Geek. there were literally no women in RI, with the exception of me, when I joined! That is the part that sucks about being from a small state. The options are kind of limited, I'm willing to date someone from the southern MA area, but I can't seem to meet anyone from there either. I'd prefer to meet someone who doesn't live half way across the country or world! I have a friend who is some sort of relationship with a guy who lives in Australia while she lives in the states, its an open relationship and I guess she's okay with it. I don't know, I kind of like the idea of being able to meet someone for coffee or a movie on a whim which means they need to live in the RI/MA area.

hey frustrated single busties

i am moving my complaints into this thread because while i have had residency in the crush thread for a while, i think the things i want to bitch about are more suited to this one.

basically, i SUCK at dating, and i don't know why. i've been unable to attract anyone for about a year, so i decided to swallow my pride and make a profile on okcupid. i've met two guys off there so far, both of whom were totally stellar and amazing in emails, and seemed really into me, but went super cold when i met them in person. it's not like i'm dishonest or misleading at all in my profile, but i think it's really hard to get a real idea of what someone is like through things like that. i also haven't dated anybody in about a million years, and my last bf (actually, make that last two) kind of did a number on my self-esteem (though i let him...) which really wasn't too high to begin with. i'm pretty deeply socially awkward and take a long time to warm up to people and feel comfortable with a new person. this works for friends and romantic prospects--some people i eventually get over the hurdle with; some it's always there. some i make leaps and bounds but still never feel 100% with. i've also often said that i'm terrible at flirting with anyone i'm not sleeping with already, which is very accurate. i need to KNOW without a doubt that i'm wanted to feel comfortable being confident enough to flirt.

i think i'm terrified of being the "ew, why is she hitting on ME?" girl to guys i may be interested in. i don't take rejection well, but i always expect it (perhaps because i have had a lot of it...which is a vicious cycle). i have a really visceral reaction to people i don't want talking to me, and i hate the idea of being that to someone else. i'm worried that my being so cold is cutting these guys off before the second date. i'm not sure what else it could be, unless i'm somehow vastly uglier in person than in photograph.

anyway, i have two more prospects on my list, both of whom are out of town at the moment but plan on being in town soon. one i find very attractive, and we have similar interests, but he's not much of a writer at all. i can't tell if this means he doesn't have a personality, or just doesn't have a flair for writing. but hey at this point, if he's cute and willing to make out with me, i'm all for it.

the other is considerably older than me, and i'm not sure how i feel about him. at first i was intrigued, but now i'm feeling a little hesitant. he only has one picture, and it's hard to tell personality from just one picture. he seems passably attractive but like he might be veering a little close to the pretentious-nerd, a species i have very little tolerance for. the thing that originally made me interested was that in addition to being verbose & smarty-pants-seeming, he obviously has a pretty strong libido. but the more i see of that, the less i like it. it's one thing to be more interested in sex than the average person. i consider myself in that category too, i just have huge blocks against actually getting any. but it's another thing to be a professional guy in your late thirties consistently taking online tests like "how big is your internet penis?" and other shit that's obviously written by a 19 year old boy. i think some of the personality tests on okcupid are valid, and i like taking the verbal/spelling/brainiac ones, but i feel like MOST of the sex ones are pretty much just cheap attempts at titillation and i mean, by your late 30s you should probably have figured out a better kind of porn, RIGHT?

anyway, part of me is kind of squicked out at what i feel is an immature and kind of pathetic "look how much i like sex!" posturing. on the other hand....he probably IS good in bed, and god knows i need to get fucked. part of me remains intrigued. i feel like i will probably not enjoy the date and not care to even kiss him, but the chance of a potentially hot hookup makes me feel like if i rule him out i may regret.

YAY I WROTE A BOOK. anybody care to respond? sorry.

hi mouse -

have a friend who is a serial internet dater. She's on like 3 sites, and she dates more than anyone else I know. And when I say "date" I mean going on dates with different people. Sometimes never more than one with a guy, sometimes it's turned into a string of dates with someone. A couple times, it became more. Her outlook on it is that it's all practice. She'll go on a date with a guy she's not completely sure about, but at least intrigued by, just to get practice in seeing different people, and in being the one who makes the choice to go on another date or not. I remember her saying that one of her bigger reasons for dating was to learn to recognize when someone wasn't right, and to practice telling them so and moving on - to that end, sometimes she'll accept a date with someone she's pretty sure she's not compatible with, just so she can get some practice in that area. And hey, if they do randomly hit it off, then all the better. While that's not my thing, I do admire her outlook on the whole thing - in addition to meeting new guys, etc. she's looking at it as a way to learn more about herself, her dating patterns, what she likes and doesn't like. I can honestly say that I've watched her become someone who just lets a lot of things that bothered her in the past roll right off of her, and is open to all sorts of people, even though she might have that initial "ooh, I don't think he's my type" reaction. I really admire that.

Anyway, at least you're putting yourself out there, and maybe you can just look at it as a big social experiment. Take the pressure off yourself (and the guy), and just look at it as that you're practicing figuring out what you like and don't like, learning your dating patterns, learning more about yourself. Just for now, don't look at it as "this might be the one!" but look at it as practice in all the things you mentioned below relating to dating.

I have to say, I've never been an internet dater, but lately I have been tempted to do it based solely on how my friend approached it. I feel like I could use the practice in just seeing how it is, on a no-pressure-on-myself-this-is-a-personal-social-experiment basis. I never have a date either. I've had a couple random (one drunken) hookups in the last year, but that's the extent of it. Kind of sad..

see, i don't understand "dates". it's always seemed so artificial to me: "hey, let's go get some noodles and then, if our common interests and mutual bonding are significant enough, we can awkwardly make out and/or have sex at the end of the evening."

sure, getting drunk and hooking up with someone is a just as stupid social dance, but at least there's no pretension about it.


i'm not really sure what compelled me to post, other than to lament the dating scene/culture in context of what you lovely ladies are discussing. perhaps i'll come back and edit/add to later, but i have to get to work, where there are no attractive or date-able people.

Hmm...starting to get a little bit frustrated, but still mostly happy to be single.

I'm on POF but I feel like I'm on there more for a joke. I have zero expectation of meeting a guy I'm interested in from that site. I definitely feel in a rut though. I really need to get out of the house more. Summer has been nice and relaxing but I've been sort of a hermit the last few weeks partly because I'm busy with my new job and partly because I smoke way too much weed by myself and partly because my best friend has been gone for almost 5 months. Luckily the bff comes home on Saturday so my social life should get a jump start.

The guy I used to mention in here who I was crushing on, I'm still crushing on him but neither of us made much of an effort to hang out this summer. He still always makes comments on my photo's and stuff though. I broke my nose a week ago and posted a pic on facebook right after I got back from the ER. I had blood still coming out of my nostril, my face was so swollen, I looked puffy and exhausted because it was painful enough to keep me crying for 2 hours, and I just generally looked disheveled. But he said, "Still cute even with a broken nose:)" And I go into crush mode again.

Either than FWB though, that's the most dating action I've seen in months, but that's also been a conscious choice.

cocl, how else would you have it? i mean....i don't think "dates" are in any way less dishonest or more pretentious than drunken hookups. and i've never had a date off the internet that ended in sex the first time...i think they're really just to get to know the person. i guess i'm not sure really what the other options would be...how else would you suggest getting to know someone other than what could be called "dating"?

there is a different feeling with dates you meet online, though, than with a date planned with someone you meet in real life, just because you don't know whether they actually like YOU (presumably you could argue this with the irl sitch too but at least they met you previously) or just the idea they got from your profile, and as honest as you try to be, that can be really different.

it's kind of fascinating, actually, in a sort of how do you perceive yourself vs how do others perceive you way, but also annoying as hell.

zoya, thanks. that perspective actually helped A LOT.

though i feel like i should point out i am NOT looking for "the one" (in fact, the guy who just rejected me this weekend told me he was looking for the one but i was not her, and i said well thank god), just someone i'm into who doesn't want to forget about me the second they meet me in person. but it's nice knowing the odds are different with internet dating, and it's also great to look at it as practice. i really need practice.

mouse-

dating in the traditional sense* seems... forced. you're both sitting across from each other, trying to figure out important things and personality traits to determine instant compatibility; things that seem like they should instead be figured out over a protracted amount of time.**

friends first, i suppose, is what i'm trying to say. getting to truly know someone before there's a pressure to figure out if he/she is The One, or is dad/mom material...or shit, worthy of a second date.


*i.e., boy likes girl, boy asks girl for number and dinner and a movie, walks girl to front door after date and either gets the peck on the cheek or invited in for coffee.
**disclaimer: personal beliefs based on personal experience. i'm very aware that the traditional method has worked for many people. it's just a (majority)culture that i can't subscribe to; my significant relationships have always come via common social circles/friends... but also infrequently.

i'm in the thick of the jungle with the rest of you ladies. i don't think anyone has *the* answer to approaching dating culture, but i think it's about chewing over the advice/comments/musings about dating that works/doesn't work for others, and taking from each to make a dating frankenstein that works for your life.

AHHHHHHHH! (storms into thread) LADIES!!!
Long time it seems. Been dealing with a lot of family drama AND dating drama, and yes, I'm still a frustrated single. Lately I've been on both ends of the heartbreak. Was dating a guy who ADORED me and I wanted SO BADLY to adore him back, but I. Just. Couldn't. I tried lord I tried, ..kept reminding myself that he was good to me and we had common interests and goals...but he was just too SOMETHING, I dont know, but he wasnt sexy to me. So I ended it, much to his protest, and kept to myself for awhile.

Then, I met a hunk. Not mainstream gorgeous but my type of gorgeous, and sparks flew. He asked for my number and because of a lot of busy-ness in both of our lives, we just texted back and forth for weeks before we finally went on a date. The date was awesome, we stayed out til 2am, came back to my place, listened to records until 4 and after we both insisted we should wait, we ended up f*cking anyway. Next day we hung out more, and he said he would call me that night and maybe we could hang out again. I totally believed him. ...can you see where this is going? yeah. No call. And when I texted him asking what happened. Nothing. Not only am I bummed (and I SWEAR this guy did not seem like a douche, this was a total shock) but I'm wondering if this is some type of karma. Am I being punished? This always seems to happen when I'm supremely physically attracted to a guy..is it so wrong to want a boyfriend that is hot? Again, I'm not talking 'get in line' hot, just a guy that *I* think is hot.

So, yeah, count me as frustrated, and borderline depressed.

As for the convo at hand..I feel like once yer out of school where seeing the same guys weekly is common, "friends first" is downright impossible. I for one have many dear friends who are boys but they are JUST friends for a reason. Anyone else I want to get to know pretty much has to be a date-like situation, cuz its the only way I'll see them again. I would love it to be able to continuously see a crush through pals again, but I think I've already tried all the single ones in my circle

*delurks*

((greenbean))

that really sucks.

Here you say, "As for the convo at hand..I feel like once yer out of school where seeing the same guys weekly is common, "friends first" is downright impossible. I for one have many dear friends who are boys but they are JUST friends for a reason. Anyone else I want to get to know pretty much has to be a date-like situation, cuz its the only way I'll see them again."

I know this may not help in anyway, but it's my perspective. Being friends with a guy first will almost always tell you if that *hottness* in front of you is just looking to get into your pants. I cannot tell you how many times I insisted on prolonging that getting to know you phase only to have him bale when I wanted to wait, for serious.

One time, I had sex with a guy after meeting and hanging out with him twice. (We had an amazing connection and he blew so much wonderful smoke up my ass, it was great and so, I figured why not!) I slept with him because I decided that I wanted to try quick sex. Ha! I ended up falling in love with the rat bastid and he started stringing me along, and I ended up writing him a scathing letter. He didn't speak to me for six months.
But eventually, we started talking again, the amazingness was still there. We became friends again, and only friends. And you know what, it turned out, he was scared, he really liked me as much as I liked him, but he's an artist and I was too young, and he didn't want to fall in love. That's my story, now. I. go.

*relurks*

greenbeany! how the hell are you (other than unlucky in love like the rest of us poor suckers)? sorry i totally dropped the ball (pun intended) on bowling let's hang out soon yes?

i definitely agree with the impossibility of friends first once you're out of college. it takes a real effort to make friends in the "real world", and you have to plan to hang out with someone enough to get to know them. in fact, even my experience making female friends has felt a bit like dating--where i make it a point to call them, even though i'm nervous and not sure if they like me, because otherwise nothing will happen. work friends are easier to make, but even my closest friends i only see about once a week. semi-friend boys i might want to get to know better i see maybe once a MONTH, and if i ask them to hang out more often in order to become friends...well, isn't that basically dating?

I feel like a loser for being single and never having had a boyfriend. I've dated guys, and have had opportunities, but never liked anyone enough to want to be in a relationship. I've never been in love, I've given guys a chance, I've tried to be more affectionate and flirty, which is not my natural style, and just could never feel anything, no desire or drive. It would make me feel like something was wrong with me, like it's my fault that I'm not easily affectionate. It makes me feel bad because I'm 25 and feel like I'm getting older, past my dewy prettiness of being aged 17-22, and so used to being single with no attachments that it would feel weird for me to have a boyfriend.

.

I dated two guys two years ago for several dates each, both were both into me, and were interesting and great guys. And I really want to like them back, and feel sexual passion, and develop into being bf/gfs, but I just couldn't feel anything. So I let them both down easy by saying I could only see them as friends. Since then, I've had sex with a couple of guys (I don't get around a lot), and felt boredom and apathy.

I don't even know if I have a specific type. I've gotten turned on before by short, funny, smart, wry guys, and also liked sleazy-looking rocker types who look like they sleep on a friend's couch and wake up at noon. I enjoy writing, but have gone to writer's meetups before and felt like the men I met were pretentious or boring or creepy. I like being into films, but don't feel like having long discussions with guys over them. I dated a guy in April and we went to an artsy movie theater, and I thought he was boring and dull. And I like the sleazy rocker guys but don't want to hang out in rock clubs listening to bad music, as I don't drink and would look like a nerd in there.

I just felt so single and lonely after watching a Youtube video of a couple and their cat. It was a two-minute video of their new cat prowling around, and the girl in the video was beautiful in a very sweet, real way. She's petting the cat, and says to it, "Say hi to Daddy," looking into the camera, in the sweetest, most loving way, and it made me feel so bad that I've never felt that kind of love for anybody.

Hugs, Anna. You're so not a loser. This love & attraction stuff is a big mystery to pretty much everyone I know. We're all trying to figure it out. But it sounds like you're in a quandary. My recommendation would be to continue dating a variety of guys, but if they want to go somewhere that's not particularly fun for you (like a rock venue with a band you don't like), then don't go. I'd also recommend having sex with them only if you feel some kind of physical or personal/romantic connection with them, and don't engage in sex if you don't. Having bad sex is no fun. Have you possibly thought of dating other genders, or just hanging out with them and seeing where your feelings are? I think it's always good to keep the possibilities open when you're figuring out what you want.

Thanks, thirtiesgirl. I've signed up on meetup.com, but the meetups often happen during the weekend afternoons when I work, or a time when I'd rather take a dance class at the gym.

I've messaged guys on OKcupid, but have only heard back from a few. I updated my profile, and should probably add what bands/movies/books I like, as that may work better.

I've been attracted to women before, but more of wanting to kiss them because one would be beautiful and magnetic. I've had times of going to meetups and meeting some woman and being really attracted to her, and feeling weird about it.

I hear you. I'm on meetup, too, but like you, haven't yet felt inspired to go to a lot of them because I can be such a socially inept dork at times and get too anxious about having a bad time. Some of the meetup groups I belong to have posted things that sound like fun, but I haven't yet climbed out of my shell to go to any. I went to a few meetups last summer and have been too anxious and/or busy with other stuff to try it again.


I think that's a great idea, being more specific in your profiles on dating sites. It will help weed out the guys who don't share your interests. I mean, you're still going to receive some responses from people who don't pay a lick of attention to anything you've painstakingly written down because they just think your pics are cute, are looking for insta-sex, or are just looking for someone to chat with. But I think once you've taken the time to put it in writing, it solidifies things for *you* and you might be less apt to date a guy who doesn't meet the criteria of what you're looking for or doesn't share some of your interests.


That might be a worthwhile thing to explore, just to kiss a girl you find beautiful & magnetic and see how you feel. You don't have to let it go any further than a kiss (or kissing session) if you don't want it to.

ok, so after all my complaining about boys who decline second dates, karma turns around and bites me in the ass--and not in the way i like. i just got back from a disastrous date with a dude from okcupid who seemed promising--intelligent emails, good on paper, adequate in photographs. self-proclaimed nervous mumbler, but hey so am i. on super heavy duty antidepressants but hey, he is dealing with his shit.

WRONG.

i show up, and dude has obviously not showered in at least a week. greasy tangly hair, dirty clothes with holes in them, slumpy posture, runny nose. not even five minutes into the date he tells me that he goes to a methadone clinic "for pain"--whatever that means. upon him opening his mouth to tell me this i notice that he is MISSING THREE TEETH and two more look rotted. he continues to be a nervous wreck during the meal, slurs his sentences, and is generally a very very sad man. i try to make polite conversation, keep the conversation going (something i am not great at even if i am into the person), and make him feel less nervous. i politely lie about having to get up early and how i should not drink caffeine this late when he asks me to go for coffee after.

and then i drive off, and feel like the world's biggest jerk. i know how shitty i felt when the previous boys weren't into me. i got the impression that he has a really sad, lonely and probably difficult life. i am sure he has ten million times worse luck finding girls than i do finding boys, and i'm already miserable about that. i feel so much compassion and sadness for this deeply unattractive, dirty (and not in the good way) and sad man but what the hell can i do????

I HATE DATING. I HATE IT A MILLION TIMES.

thirtiesgirl, I updated my OKcupid profile, and the only response I've gotten has been from a man in his late thirties in the music industry. I thought he was OK-looking, but has an interesting background, so I wrote him back.

I also messaged bisexual girls who I found sexy and attractive, though I don't know what they would think of me.

I feel for you mouse. It sucks to keep doing Internet dating if it doesn't feel like you have prospects in your daily life. I don't have a crush on anyone, don't have any male friends, and my life is pretty solitary save for a few female friends. So meetup.com and Internet dating is the way to go for now.