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amilita
Word, turbo. I've always tended to ignore nohope's posts because he is not so much about conversing but about telling everyone how it is. Whatever. Go stick your nose in a book, nohope.

My dad was totally sweet and caring- when my mom had her 3 knee replacements, he took great care of her. Just as she took great care of him after his bypass.
ginger_kitty
Personally, I've had nohope on my ignore list since we were able ignore users. I find him to be an ass, and prefer not to read anything he posts. I made an exception to get all the details of what was going on here. And it seems like he is still the same old ass I remember. I think we can put anyone on our ignore list that we want, rather they are a long time member or a newbie.

Back on topic, my dad is awesome. And frankly I can't stand my mother, she was never as supportive or loving as my father. If I got sick during the school day my dad would pick me up, or if I stayed home from school my dad stayed home with me. Even now, I find little to no comfort in talking to my mother. But if I have a bad day or need some help, my dad is always there for me.

We were talking about parents in general not strictly mothers.

Onna-Otaku
I was reading this to see what was going on, and I just wanted to say that both of my parents wouldn't do any of that for me. I had the same thing going on that doodle has (had? are you gettin betta?) when I was fifteen. My mom was off somewhere with her boyfriend, a few cities away, and I was all alone 'cept for my boyfriend (Who became my Mr.) I called her and told her I had temperature of 104, I was throwing up every 10 minutes, and I thought that I was dying. She told me to call her in a week.

My dad just doesn't get it, but he's not as bad as my mom. Which I think, for one shatters the whole "moms only take care of their kids because they have too" because they obviously don't, and it shows that every family is different.
Just wanted to respond with that.
missladyj
glad your back doodle, hope you are on the mend!

i am a daddy's girl and always will be.
hellotampon
Neither one of my parents would do something like that for me.

It probably wouldn't occur to me to ask though.
doodlebug
It's amazing what many parents are willing to do - sometimes even reluctant parents - once they learn their child (at any age) might die!

Yes I am on the mend at a glacial pace, thanks for your thoughts everyone! But no, I'm still not able to manage stuff like shopping, cleaning, cooking, etc. I'm still weak and exhausted, and more surgery to come....le bleargh! (ETA: I had more written here, but it's just boring and me-centred and way TMI and I've already shared it elsewhere in the Lounge anyway!)

Back on topic, can I just say how GRATEFUL I am for being childfree through all of this? I don't know how I would have managed. I mean, I don't really have any other family, so my mom would have had to take care of my kids as well as me, which would have been so stressful for everyone. My entire life changed literally overnight - anyone's could. And to have to worry about children, or try to organize their care? Yeeeaauuugggghhh!! Who knows? Maybe with the responsibility of kids at home, I would have stayed in denial about how sick I really was and not gotten to the ER in time. There's something scary to chew on. *shudders*
bustygirl
Moms don't have to take care of their kids; many don't. Some of those who do, do a piss-poor job.

I will say this, though: I have watched society bend over backwards congratulating dads for things moms do every fucking day. If a guy changes a diaper, he's a prince among men. Never mind the thousand mom changed before him.
sybarite
So true bustygirl. To both, but particularly your second point.
deschatsrouge
QUOTE(bustygirl @ Mar 4 2007, 03:56 AM) *

I will say this, though: I have watched society bend over backwards congratulating dads for things moms do every fucking day. If a guy changes a diaper, he's a prince among men. Never mind the thousand mom changed before him.


I think it's true but I also think things are changing ever so slowly. Men used to wait outside the birthing room, now they are acting as birthing coaches and are going to prenatal checkups and generally participating actively in the pregnancy process. My Dad is a great example of this, he did the whole birthing coach, dirty diaper, midnight feeding thing because he saw his kids as his responsibility too. I also see many more men putting in their 50% or more with out much fanfare because they want to have the responsibility, it shows they can provide for a family not just monetarily but emotionally. (with this I give props to a new dad Cory who is giving his new baby his 60%) Yes, a lot of men are not participating as actively as most women would like, but there are many out there who are slogging through midnight feeding and dirty diapers without any fanfare at all. I think this is happening because our culture is empowering men to be emotionally invested by showing their love for the child through active care. We are making steps in the right direction by offering Paternal leave from work and education aimed not just at women, but at couples.

*Salutes all the feminist Dads out there*
i-am-jan
Can we please get back to the joys of being childfree?

Everybody EVERYWHERE talkin' bout moms and dads and kids and babies...

This woman I work with made a comment about thinking my pants today look nice. Then another woman commented that I "am small so I can wear anything."

Then they looked at each other knowingly and at the same time they go "yeah, SHE hasn't had KIDS."

(Gee, I haven't heard THAT before.)

These peeps around here always talking about their kids as if they're martyrs...like someone left them a burden in a baby carrier on their front porch step with a note asking "please care for this poor, parentless orphan" and they had no choice in the matter. I mean, certainly they're getting rewarded for having kids, it's a choice like any other to have them.

?? Whatevs. Just still glad I'm rockin it childfree over here.
maddy29
hee hee

QUOTE
"please care for this poor, parentless orphan"


that made me laugh.

and yeah, of COURSE all women will have children! didn't you know? even if you say you don't want them, you are actually wrong and will change your mind eventually and will be sooo sorry you didn't have kids and then you'll be alone living in a cardboard box and you'll cry yourself to sleep every night wishing you had some grown up kids to take care of you....and you'll be so sorry that you never had kids and you'll realize how SELFISH you've been your whole life and now you will die alone in punishment for your selfishness.

i am so horrified, because i was talking to my happily childfree aunt and she said that years ago, my very own mother told her that it is selfish to not have kids!!! i can't believe she said that!!! i'm hoping it was like, 25 years ago or something, not recently.
ginger_kitty
*nothing to add, just streaking through to revel in my childfree status* biggrin.gif
octobersky
I am so SICK of breeders acting as if having children gives them a sense of entitlement, yes because you decided to squeeze out a few babies, suddenly that makes you more special. The other day in my class this idiot held up the entire class while she whined to the professor that the final would interfere with her getting her kids off the bus and could she take it earlier - f'n whah! You knew about this final THREE months ago and you couldn't make plans to make sure your kids were taken care of? Other people have responsibilities too. FUCK!!! I would never dream of asking a professor such a question.
deschatsrouge
*still happy to be child free*
culturehandy
I loathe it when people let their ill behaved children run amok. I have no problem with good kids. But the little imps!!!! GRRRRRR.
i_am_jan
I went recently to my sister's little boy's basketball game.

Let me just say right away I was - once again - so relieved that I do not have to tote children back and forth for sports/activities.

All of the forced socializing with all the other parents. Moms having to tote kids to practice FOUR NIGHTS A WEEK - AND take turns bringing a mid-practice SNACK for all of the kids every night and at every game.

And to beat it all, the dads appearing to be checking out all of the teenage cheerleaders in the building who were cheering for their respective teams, as well as the regular little girls in their tight jeans and tees - and not *even* trying to hide it.

Uggh, more than ever, I was like - I'M NOT CUT OUT FOR THIS, LOL : )~~

pollystyrene
(cross-posted in the This Just In thread)

I thought this would be an interesting issue to discuss in here: Woman suing Planned Parenthood for child support after failed abortion.
culturehandy
uhhhhhh......
turbojenn
I've gotta tell ya'll...that happens more than you would think. We get about 2-3 women a year that come to the adoption agency I work for because of failed abortions. Your follow-up appt after an abortion should include another pregnancy test just for verification, but many, many women don't show up for the f/u visit, thinking its all taken care of. That said, I don't agree with the law suit, she could have chosen adoption, or requested a late-term abortion. Parenting is still a choice, even when you're pregnant. And where is the baby's father, exactly?
amilita
Good points, Turbo. I've worked at two abortion clinics, and both offered the f/u appointment in the cost package. I don't know a percentage of those who didn't show up, but I bet it's pretty high.

Also, when you are dealing with very early terminations, like 4 weeks, you'd be surprised at the teeny tiny size of the products of conception...smaller than a dime. We always reinfored the importance of the follow up visit with the super early women especially. But really anytime, you just can miss it.

So ridiculous to call that malpractice...I mean, part of the risk of every medical procedure is that you will not have the expected/desired outcome or a bad outcome. I know that's got to be part of the papers one signs before an abortion...among the risks: you may remain pregnant.

With regard to the lawsuit, I'm very curious as to what the medical visit was about between the abortion and the 20-week visit. I mean, for all we know she went to an ER because she had a cold or something...I suppose that's unlikely, but who knows? (ETA: I googled the Dr. she saw in between, and it seems he is an OB/GYN...I still really wonder what she saw him for...)

She certianly did choose to parent this child.
humanist77
yeah wtf? why couldn't she have just given it up for adoption? She obviously didn't want the child at all in the first place-she attempted to have an abortion, and she decided to keep it? Maybe she kept it, hoping that she could make money from a lawsuit.

And even though there are many occurences of failed abortions, because this one is being publicized, you know all the religious nuts are going to make a big deal of this-"it was god's will"....blech..
nohope
My apologies to those I offended on this thread though my last post. My comments were incisive, not predicated on fact and insulting.

Thanks to everyone who made this clear to me.

P.s happy international women’s day. Hope you all had a great day on strike picketing for womens rights.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/6431617.stm

http://www.playfuls.com/news_10_18065-Anti...-Sao-Paulo.html

http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/latest/20070...lice_sex_trials

http://www.counterpunch.org/alam03062007.html

and many more
faerietails2
re: bad mothering

this is what was in my hometown paper today:
http://www.themonitor.com/onset?id=625&...te=article.html

wtf? seriously, wtf?! i would've been all over that guy's ass the second i saw what was going down.
doodlebug
Ugh! Here we go again with parents giving children all the control! What the hell is up?

"...one mother I know has quietly endured Post-it notes all over her home asking, 'Do you want to die?' Others let children pull cigarettes out of their mouths and the mouths of their friends. Another mother I know, who smokes occasionally, tells her son she appreciates his concern, but she has to make her own decisions. It's as if she's explaining herself to a strict father."

NY Times Article

I don't smoke anymore, and I appreciate the dangers of smoking around children (INdoors), but if any friend's child had ever reached out to pluck the cigarette from my mouth, I would probably have smacked his little hand away, on pure instinct. Seriously.

And for a child to call his father a "drug addict" for having two beers? Seriously, I cannot imagine being lectured by a child for the decisions I make as an adult, including social drinking, but I wouldn't tolerate it. When they are adults, they can make their own decisions, too.

(Uh oh...now I'm having visions of 1984-esque children reporting their parents to child welfare for having two glasses of wine with dinner....)
sybarite
Re. that article....essentially the generation of children described are being raised as hectoring, arrogant, organic-only self-righteous little sods whose precocious little brains probably couldn't figure out how to cross town or shop in a supermarket on their own.

We're inheriting a teenager this fall and the mister and I have already talked (forcefully smile.gif ) about the importance of boundaries and discipline. Actually I'm sure we won't be particularly strict but I know there's no way her dad will accommodate anything like this: 'I’m tired of parents who let children commandeer every conversation.' (from that article)

nohope
Amen sisters

The order of domination goes, animals under children, children under women, women under men, men under god.

This world is going to collapse if we don't enforce gods intelligently designed order. I’m just so thankful that there are still some god-loving traditionalists out there who are not afraid of beating the living hell out of those evil children.

Satan is so conniving, he knows how easy it is to tempt little children and make them think that they have rights. But children don’t have any rights. They are just vestals for sin who need to be beaten early and often and smacked down ever opportunity or they will grow up to be feminists, and homosexuals.

You let a girl think she has a right to think for herself for one second and she will fallow satan to the alter of lesbianism.

These organicistas, they want to turn children in to Satan’s army and deprive men and women for gods gift to us of tobacco and chemical fertilizer. These whackos want our children to believe in global warming and evolution.

Any child who tells us that something is bad or that we came from apes needs a righteous beating till Satan has been driving out.

I would just like to say thank you for your commitment to instilling gods order hear on earth.

Amen, halleluiah, praise be unto god

http://www.takingchildrenseriously.com/
http://www.alfiekohn.org/up/index.html
http://www.alfiekohn.org/teaching/edweek/discipline.htm
pollystyrene
Nohope's a fundie? I guess my eyes would glaze over whenever he posted something and I never really read much of what he posted, especially since most of it was never his actual thoughts about it, it was just a copy & paste job. I figured he was a granola-eating, tree-sitting, Starbuck's-window smashing, "the whole world is watching/this is what democracy looks like" type. Well this puts a whole new spin on things. I still couldn't give a crap about what he posts, but a whole new spin, nonetheless.
nohope
Did you know that Gullible isn’t in the dictionary?

Allot of you sinners don’t know this but the reason Gullible isn’t in the dictionary is because granola-eating, tree-sitting, Starbuck's-window smashing, "the whole world is watching/this is what democracy looks likers" at Oxford University removed it in the 1970’s. You see they knew that if people found out about the word Gullible they would find out the truth about God. That is that Gullible comes from the name of a city God destroyed with fire and brimstone.

You see Satan works on people through their “gullibility” and that is why god had to destroy the cities of Sodom and Gullimorra, and why when Lot's wife was so gullible as to turn back and look god had to turn that feminist in to a pillar so salt before she became a lesbian or worse, as a warning to any other women and as a licking block for Lot's animals, which where getting low on electrolytes.

God provides


Bless you all
pollystyrene
It is written on the ceiling, though tongue.gif
faerietails2
Hmm, yeah. Didn't cross my fundie radar, either. Then again, I never did thoroughly peruse the pages and pages of whatever the hell he posts regularly...Interesting.

*runs off to find missj and hand her more spinach*
girlygirlgag
Ignore him. As I have stated, he has issues witht he universe for not grsnting him a va-j j and boobies.
culturehandy
I'll also admit that I've nver read one thing nohope wrote. It's kind of wannabe radical to me.

I cannot believe how parents are raising thier children these days. I remember going to a movie a few back, and whenever I need to go out where there aer teeny boppers hanging out, the girls try and stare me down. i'm thinking, what is the fucking issue? I'm not trying to compete for affections of the clerk at your local skate shop. Ummm no. I'm also not trying to pick up the guy dressed in the new pants with no ball room.

I also can't believe how skanky girls dress now either.

Oh and for you sucking all that cock. I don't care. I can do it too, and the thing is, I know what I'm doing and I don't do it so I can brag to my friends (well, maybe...!)

It bothers me that some parents have stopped parenting. There is no reason for your 13 year old to be out until 3 in the morning. Children do notm learn how to do things are their own, these are the responsbilities you took on when you had crotch fruit.

There also has to be a place where children can't come. Why is everything so aimed towards children friendly? Why can't they have somethig that is adult friendly that isn't a bar or a porn shop. Ugh.

/endrant
humanist77
Yet another article on the elusive Male Pill

At least this one examines the reasons it's taking so fucking long!
missladyj
Interesting.
Here are some factoids that might help explain why it is so much harder to stop sperm productionIt has got to be much easier to stop one egg a month.

Women are born with all their eggs about 150,000 in each ovary

In our lifetimes we ovulate about 80,000 times

Men produce about 1 million sperm PER SECOND ( which I find totally amazing)

everytime a man ejaculates he releases about 250 to 500 MILLION SPERM


so I am not surprised that it is much harder to reduce sperm count compared to one measly egg a month


Oh and I think my alter ego FART GIRL was summoned. Again I will defeat ignorant bitches by having them suck a fart out of my ass ! Take that ignoramouses. My farts are also useful against arrogant bitches too.

I would like to remind everyone that when I say bitch, I mean it gender neutrally. Dudes can totally be bitches !!!
nohope
QUOTE(missladyj @ Mar 12 2007, 09:46 PM) *

Women are born with all their eggs about 150,000 in each ovary


"Their results indicated that female mammals continue to create egg cells after birth, contrary to long-held scientific belief that females are born with all the eggs they will ever have.

The scientific dogma, taught in biology courses and medical schools around the world, says that female mammals, including humans, slowly use up a fixed pool of eggs and enter menopause when the supply is exhausted."

http://www.news.harvard.edu/gazette/2004/0...1-moreeggs.html
nohope
QUOTE(culturehandy @ Mar 12 2007, 07:10 PM) *

I'll also admit that I've nver read one thing nohope wrote. It's kind of wannabe radical to me.

I cannot believe how parents are raising thier children these days. I remember going to a movie a few back, and whenever I need to go out where there aer teeny boppers hanging out, the girls try and stare me down. i'm thinking, what is the fucking issue? I'm not trying to compete for affections of the clerk at your local skate shop. Ummm no. I'm also not trying to pick up the guy dressed in the new pants with no ball room.

I also can't believe how skanky girls dress now either.

Oh and for you sucking all that cock. I don't care. I can do it too, and the thing is, I know what I'm doing and I don't do it so I can brag to my friends (well, maybe...!)

It bothers me that some parents have stopped parenting. There is no reason for your 13 year old to be out until 3 in the morning. Children do notm learn how to do things are their own, these are the responsbilities you took on when you had crotch fruit.

There also has to be a place where children can't come. Why is everything so aimed towards children friendly? Why can't they have somethig that is adult friendly that isn't a bar or a porn shop. Ugh.

/endrant



You make an excellent point about parent’s neglect of children and the negative effects that that has on those children as they mature into adults.

What I object to is the prevailing belief by so may Americans and even Busties, that the problem is one of not enough discipline.

Everything I have read about child psychology seams to me to indicate that what children need is not discipline but love and caring form attentive parents. The only way to learn how to make decisions is to be given the freedom to do so. The role of the parent I think is to be there so that when a child even after adulthood makes a mistake, you can help them navigate that mistake through loving care.

To me that is totally different than hands off approach to parenting. It takes a lot more work to be an active passionate and loving parent than to be an authoritarian limit setter.

It also takes a lot of maturity and faith in ones own parenting abilities. I know I’m not there and I don’t know if I ever will be.

The other thing is that society itself is structured in such a way that even if you are “ready to be a parent” emotionally psychologically and etc… our society has made parenting a bottom priority. So lots of parents come home existed and even if one parent is a full time care giver, children require extraordinary amounts of attention and reassurance, the kind that can literally sap people of all their emotional resources. When the other parent comes home, again they are existed by the demands of a stressful workplace structure.

It is not surprising that parents therefore resort to controlling kids rather than helping their kids negotiate life.

I believe that our society is socially ill. Which is why I am childfree by choice.

girlygirlgag
nohope, get out of here, this is the CHILDFREE THREAD.

You don't even have children, so shut it.
culturehandy
Does it alarm anyone else that there are so many minivans everywhere? They hog up the road, the people who drive them are shit drivers, and they usually are packed with too many children. If I ever end up with a minivan, it will be the end of the world. I HATE them and everything they stand for.
turbojenn
The minivans don't bug me nearly so much as the asshole SUV drivers constantly talking on their cell phones, and nearly running me over 9 times a day when I'm on my bike...minivan drivers, as a rule, are generally very polite about giving bikers a wide berth, and at least here, they don't seem to have the cellphones glued to their ears as much. I've got not problems with the minivans - and besides, generally they have better mileage than the huge SUVs.
girlygirlgag
This is embarassing. A few weeks ago I had to get a rental car and since I have a station wagon, the rental place assumed a mini-an was most comparable to my car. I was shocked and dismayed and made plans to come back later and switch out the mini van for something else.

Until I started driving it.

It was lovely. I could see everything, it was not bumpy in the least, it was roomy, no blind spots, fast, drove amazingly and suprisingly got great gas mileage.

I am so ashamed.
turbojenn
I know. They do drive really well. And you know, you can use them for lots of things other than kids - hauling your pets around, bikes, whatever....I'm not against mini-vans at all as a class of vehicle, they're very useful...even for the childfree!
culturehandy
Perhaps it is just the city where I am from where there are assholes everywhere. Minivan drivers and SUV drivers are the absolute worst.

Both are cell phone talkers who dno't use turn signals, don't shoulder check, and are overall shit drivers.
i_am_jan
Yes, and these drivers are in such a hurry!! Can't tell ya how many times I've been almost hit - or at least given a very *dirty* look just for riding my bike (my primary mode of transportation) on the streets that THEY apparently OWN, ahem!

Such a gorgeous spring day today! Think I'll grab my (childfree) gal Sophie and go for a walk down to the park after work...shoot some hoops...play on the swings...whatever else we feel like on the spur of the moment! Such a wonderful day to be a light traveler ; )~
amilita
Ha! I ended up with a minivan...I needed a used car that I could throw 4 cats in carriers into if we needed to evacuate...and haul art, etc...and there are so many used minivans out there. That was the best car/best deal we could find. I like to tell the imaginary kids in the back to load up their hockey equipment and to buckle up. Oh, and we plan on doing a road trip and sleeping in the car sometimes someday...
ginger_kitty
I swear they are just toying with us about the whole male pill.

On the minivan thing, I don't dig them. I'd be crushed if I ever had to drive one. I hate SUV's as well, and I hate hearing people bitch about how much they spend on gas for thier SUVs. If you choose to buy a gas guzzler, deal with it. I wish they would band talkin on cell phones while driving, it's so dangerous.

On a childfree note, so glad to be kid free on such a beautiful day!!! I came home from work, played with pups in the yard, then went for a bicycle ride with my hubby, just got to taken in the great weather and really enjoy life. smile.gif
culturehandy
It is nice to be able to go out and not have to return to a child. Granted I have a dog, as does le man, but if we want to stay up and watch television, or do whatever, we can. It's nice.
hellotampon
I understand that it's hard to invent a male pill, but the beginning of that article bugged me. "Uncomfortable condoms and irreversible vasectomies" oh boo hoo. Men are fertile 365 days of the year, while women are only fertile a few days every month and yet it is women who have to put up with dangerous and/or invasive treatments to manage our fertility. I think it's great that women have several options but geez. Men are not the ones who have it oh-so-hard.
humanist77
QUOTE(missladyj @ Mar 12 2007, 04:46 PM) *

Oh and I think my alter ego FART GIRL was summoned. Again I will defeat ignorant bitches by having them suck a fart out of my ass ! Take that ignoramouses. My farts are also useful against arrogant bitches too.


Not trying to start any drama here, but was that a stab at me? Really, I can't figure out what you're referring to otherwise.
hellotampon
I was kinda confused by that too...? I thought maybe it was about NoHope?
humanist77
yeah, but she is referring to the article that I posted. Maybe she thought nohope posted it? Even so-why is it ignorant to post that? It's just a thing to make you go hmmmm..
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