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cloverbee
http://moneycentral.msn.com/content/CollegeandFamily/Raisekids/P150437.asp

oh, just more reasons not to procreate.
deschatsrouge
I agree I think I won't lose any sleep over losing sleep, changing diapers and listining to tantrums in the grocery store. I think everyone in here can agree that there are other ways of finding fullfillment besides popping out a kid and being chained to it for the next twenty years.
msgoofball
i love my CBC busties!

we were at Downtown disney yesterday...kids every where....one kept getting her feelings hurt and kept crying...her mom just held her...maybe she's 'sensitive'...or maybe not.

but there were these 2 kids on the other side of the glass while we were waiting outside (they were inside) and they were sitting with their backs to the glass...you could hear the whining from outside...one kept dropping his drawers (not on purpose)...and all i could think was 'maybe if i tap on the glass and say "what cute kiddies...so cute..so cute...thank god they're behind glass."....hehehe inside voice i know.

but i did mention to my friend L that the environment(as we were waiting) was an excellent birthcontrol. She heartily agreed...and she's a mom.
deschatsrouge
I stopped going to the matinee movies because people bring their kids to the movies but fail to tell them before hand that you don't talk during a movie. What's worse is that when you tell the little piss ants to shut up the parents give you a nasty look. If you're not going to tell your little bastard to be quiet lady somebody will!
cloverbee
okay, so I was at the store and this lady at the checkout was buying a bunch of baby food w/ food stamps and then she goes and buys some sleezy tabloid magazine w/ her money. and then she had the gall to say "I think I already have this one but I'll get it anyway". WTF? so this is what my tax dollars are going to?
treehugger
Well, went back to work yesterday. The hardest thing about going back to work was finding something presentable that I could wear comfortably all day! (I work in HVAC) and most of my jeans would cut directly over my incision..ouchie. I found a pair of paint-splattered bib overalls and said, well, this will have to do!

Everybody asking me if I had been doing painting lately, got pretty old. Heh.

Today is a paperwork day so I can wear one of my lower-rider jeans...I just don't have any presentable for "normal" work.

I still get tired easily, I was pretty beat by the time I got home yesterday..but it was a good day over all. The guy I was assigned to work with was pretty good natured about dealing with my limitations.
turbojenn
tree - I'm glad you're back to work, and that you can make accomodations for your healing needs this week. I truly truly appreciate everything that you've shared here!

Had to take my dog to the vet again last night - he's been limping for a few days, but yesterday was panting a lot and not putting any weight on it. Another $100 at the vet, and I hope the pain meds help him heal, otherwise, I'll be back at the vet for $250 worth of xrays...now how exactly do people afford children? I'm struggling to support my dog at the moment, and he eats kibble, doesn't need clothes, and no need for daycare...sheesh. Of course I love my puppers to bits, and will do whatever needs to be done to heal him up, its just been a rough spring for vet bills.
lucizoe
come on, turbodog! poor puppy...I hope it's not stressing you out too much, turbojenn!

I had a dream last night that I was responsible for like, four kittens about three or four months old...I kept losing them. I hope this is as close as I get to the "Oh my god I have a baby and I'm killing it" dreams. 'Cause I'm fairly certain one of my dream kittens literally ended up squished on train tracks...

*sigh*
cloverbee
turbo, have you checked into pet insurance? it's pretty expensive but as your pet ages it starts to look like a good idea.
turbojenn
The pet insurance is kind of crap, from the research I've done - you pay upwards of $30 a month, and that covers as many office visits as you like at no additional charge, but it doesn't cover emergency care, stitches, and only gets you half-off vaccinations and a co-pay on medications. So what I do instead is I have an ING Direct savings account just for turbo that takes $10/week out of my checking and puts it in the separate account for when I need it. So far its worked really well, until this month, where we've racked up $600 in vet bills - so turbo's savings were already gone. It'll balance itself back out, but it sure does make me glad I don't have to worry about spending money on kids!
kjhink
Ack.

I work in a *tiny* mortgage company, and some couple just showed up to close their refinance on the house they can't really afford and brought 2 of their 6 kids with them.

Please keep it away. It looks . . . sticky. And clearly, and its parents are obviously not too bright.
cloverbee
kids are gross
venetia
I don't understand how people can afford kids, either - the cat costs me enough without even getting sick (she does need an occasional "babysitter" though). I might start an account for her.

That reminds me - my mother became obsessed with having her cats have kittens and I couldn't help feeling guilty that she does it because she wishes she could have grandchildren. Not that this is a reason for me to have children, but it did make me feel funny.
turbojenn
Venetia, I think I would feel weird too if my mom started breeding things...thank maude she's just into gardening.

Although, talking to my mom last night she told me this odd story - she calls my FIL about once a week to check on him since my MIL passed last year. My FIL asked my mom if there was a "special reason" why we hadn't been back to visit him since Xmas, if there was "something he would be looking forward to hearing from us, and the reason for us not traveling." Uh, he totally wants more grandkids, and I am so proud of my mom for cutting that off, and just telling him that we are really looking forward to FIL's visiting us in Chicago....that we are both working people and don't enjoy spending 12 hours in the car for a weekend visit. FIL is retired, and has *nothing* to do, and every week we invite him out, offer to buy a plane or train ticket to get him here...and he makes some excuse. Lame.

And lame that he thinks we're making babies out here. I've been more open with him about my desire not to have kids than I have with my own family. Maybe he forgot that part.
deschatsrouge
I'm soooo glad my mom knows I will never have kids. I avoid my extended family like the plague so I don't have to explain to them that if I had kids I would go the rabbit rout and eat them. I think it's a bunch of crap that women have to defend thier choice to be child free. In a situation where I am questioned I say I hate kids, I'm not having any and don't question my judgment, shut up, leave me the f*** alone. Sometimes you have to be rude to get your point across. If the person you are talking to doesn't get it when you are subtle than they deserve to be skull bashed for being so damn dumb. If they still insitst on trying to convince me I put my fingers in my ears and sing the Barney Song as loud and off key as I can, that'll get their attention.
doodlebug
Oh dear god, turbo.....maybe you could get your FIL a puppy or something...

My mom totally loves being "grandma" to a couple of cats. She buys them little presents and looks forward to visiting, etc. Now she is encouraging my brother to adopt a kitty. (He adores cats; I don't know why he's waiting, now that he owns his own condo...) That's about the extent of it for me. Thank the goddess!!

I think one of the worst things about the expense of kids nowadays, which our grandparents really didn't have to deal with, is that they seem to leave home a LOT later than they used to! Or they come back, the little buggers. It's not like, "Okay, you're eighteen, get the eff out." It's at least 22 - 25 if they go to university, and it can easily be till their 30, in today's job market. I mean, lots of people our own ages are the kids going through this...imagine being the parent!

It's no longer just 18 years of financial burden; it's much bigger. I freak out over the sheer idea of getting into any kind of long term debt...I can't imagine the financial anxiety I'd go through over a child whom I might have to support for 30 years! And what if you have a daughter who gets pregnant very young? Now you have a fresh financial expense on top of the one you already have!!!
turbojenn
you've hit it right on the head, doodle - FIL needs a new dog. His died a few weeks befoer MIL died, and I think he would really do better to have a dog again. He keeps making excuses about what he'll do when he travels (aside from the fact that he hasn't traveled at all) - but my parents are 2 miles away, they've volunteered to dogsit, my BIL lives half a mile away f rom him....he's just making excuses, excuses, excuses. And its not like if we had kids we'd be going to MI more - if anything, we'd travel less - 'cause who wants to be in the car for 12 hours with a baby and a dog - not me.

Good point on the 25-30 years of financial support....my parents regularly thank us for being out of the house at 18, and permanently moved out after college graduation. So many of their friends have kids our age still at home. I took 6 months off to live in a commune, and then moved back home, and lasted exactly 3 days under my parents' roof before I got the hell outta there...and landed in chicago, home sweet home.
cloverbee
deschatsrouge, something you said struck a nerve w/ me. "I think it's a bunch of crap that women have to defend thier choice to be child free."
that's a good point. why DO we have to defend ourselves? I'm tired of it. I'm tired of the wierd looks and the uncomfortable silences and the questions. It's monotonous and if you think about it, it may never end. they'll still be asking us when we're in our 60's and even probably our 70's soon enough! I can just hear it "it's not too late!!" when I'm 70. right.
I just recently realized that I can not even date a guy who has kids. whether they live w/ him or not. I refuse to do it. it's a huge deal and I've been ridiculed for it by many but I don't care. it's just how I feel. Why does society think it's not a big deal to create a HUMAN being? it's a friggin' huge deal!!
turbojenn
Yup, clover, I too, am *very* tired of defending my choice...sometimes it really pisses me off...but then, I've chosen parenting HQ for my workplace, so what's a girl to do? I'm daily surrounded by couples desperate to be parents, and those who unintentionally become pregnant....kids are a popular topic at work. But I do love my job, and am glad to be a part of clients making their own parenting choices.
deschatsrouge
I have given myself the position of aunt, I will spoil the crap out of my sibs kids and send them back, screaming and crying with a huge sugar buzz. I will laugh at them when I retire ealy to Boca with all the other kvetchers and they are still working like dogs paying off the huge debt they aquired from having nine million kids. HA HA HA I AM THE EVIL AUNT FROM HELL!!!!
ginger_kitty
I grew tired of defending my child free choice years ago, just like many of you I'm sure. I think I am just going to snap and lash out at the next person that ponders my decision. We are not depraved crazies, we just don't want children.
faerietails
I'm 24, I'll be 25 in a few months. But I've been tired of defending my child-free stance since I was about 15. Now that most of my cousins are having kids, I'm really not looking forward to getting the "Do you have a boyfriend? How many kids do you want?" grill. I just know what's coming to me over the next 10 years or so. UGH!
raskel
I luck out with my side of the family. Nobody has every asked me about children. In fact, my mom tells me I "better be using condoms with that IUD, because we wouldn't want...anything happening." Mr. raskel's mom, on the other hand, reminds us that she wants grandchildren on a regular basis. I just respond with "I'm going to have a masters degree and a well paying job before I even consider the possibilities." She hasn't come up with an argument against that so far.
cloverbee
my parents don't want grandchildren either. they say that they wouldn't even babysit. my mom says she's already "put in her time" parenting and she's done w/ it. I don't think she ever even wanted kids in the first place. my dad was the one who wanted us.
now that all the celebrities are having kids I think people think it's the hip thing to do. any ideas on this?
treehugger
Well the questions *had* died down for me, in terms of "why don't you want kids"...but they've started back up now since the tubal. I guess they must have held out some "hope" or some expectation that eventually I'd become "maternal" (heh, that's going to be a classic) Now that I've taken what people see as a drastic step, I'm not so much getting the questions in a form of THAT...but more like, "so you REALLY don't EVER want kids, eh?" or, "kids REALLY aren't in your picture, eh?"

My father passed away in 1999 and my mother has early-moderate stage Alzheimers so, no grandchild requests there. My two brothers are done having kids. The family line stops here. Heh.
deschatsrouge
I already lash out at people who question me and they never do it again, it's worth seeming psycho to avoid that question.

As for celebrities having kids, It makes sense that b/c Brittany Spears is having kids all her little teen fans might want to also, I'd like to see the social rection from it. Hey they make Prada cool, why not kids. Kids could be the latest fashion excessory.
lucizoe
deschatrouge, where have you been? kids ARE the latest fashion accessory

:-)

It's mr.luci's 29 birthday today! I was just at the party store trying to figure out what to get. He doesn't want anything, no party 'cause frankly, we don't know anyone around here except the dudes who run the sock shop and head shop downstairs, and even that is just a nodding relationship...I almost a bought a huge We're Having A Baby banner. Since his vasectomy is tomorrow, I thought it would be fun.

Except he would know it was a joke immediately, no satisfying moment of heart-attack probability...

So, tell me if this is stupid. I bought some balloons in his favorite colors, some streamers and a happy birthday sign to hang up...I'm getting ingredients for mojitos and tamales and a big red bow for my head (to match the already existing red bra and panties and stilettos)...and making him a very heartfelt lovey dopey card...

I think that's good...plus we're hitting the museum of sex this sunday...
deschatsrouge
Lucizoe is this museum of sex a metaphor or is there a real museum of sex? 'Cuz I wanna go to a sex museum.
sybarite
There's one in Amsterdam...
deschatsrouge
I am so going to Amsterdam.
cloverbee
luci, your party planning skills are superb.that's every guys wet dream.
turbojenn
luci, I think we can officially say that your birthday plan gets the BUSTy seal of approval!! Sounds very very nice to me!

lucizoe
deschatsrouge, heh heh...I kind of like that as a metaphor...

"What did you do last night?"
"Went to the Museum. Of SEX!" boom chicka boom chicka wah wah...

No, there's an actual Museum of Sex in NY...it's on Fifth Ave in midtown and I cannot wait.
deschatsrouge
Tell Mr. Luci happy birthday for me. I hope you guys have fun exploring the Museum of Sex.
doodlebug
Is anybody else dealing with the question of what to do with family heirlooms?

My family is really small. I have one brother, one cousin on my mother's side, and two cousins on my father's side. None of us on my mother's side have kids, and I think maybe my brother is the only hope...but I'm not counting on that, either! My paternal cousins both have kids, but I have zero relationship with these cousins or their families (and not much interest in developing one).

But then I have all these things that have been handed down by family. For some reason, my paternal grandmother chose to make me the repository of the family photo and memorabilia collection, as well as some modest jewelry (rings, mainly). I also inherited a bunch of similar stuff from my father - photos, WWII medals, a couple of antiques, etc.

The only thing I've decided for sure is that my female cousin should have my grandmother's rings, because she has two daughters. But I have no idea what to do with any of the rest of it. I guess the paternal family stuff will have to go to my cousins, eventually, but they don't care about my father's stuff. And unless my brother has kids...

I think what bothers me about leaving stuff to the cousins is that I'm fairly sure granny left it to me b/c I was the only one who expressed interest in the family history, you know, asking lots of questions. PLUS, it's disturbing that my uncle felt he had to give all the jewelry to me right at granny's funeral, to make sure I got it. It's hard to reconcile giving important family stuff to people who are uncaring or greedy...

We are dealing with the same issue as my mom clears out my grandfather's attic. Lots of stuff, I am starting to urge her to donate to museums and historical organizations, and I'd be happy enough to do the same...but then there are personal things that won't matter to a museum...

Has anyone else thought about this kind of thing much?
cloverbee
hock it, sister. just kidding, doodle. I have thought about it very briefly one time and I realize that they are just posessions. there really is no meaning to them if there isn't someone who cares about them to continue the family name. I would do just what you are doing and impart them to those who I trust to care about them.
misspissed
decent article about the pros and cons of having sprogs

i occasionally wonder about my heirlooms, but i also have lots of cousins and 2 godchildren, so i will probably leave anything of value to them. if my sister survives me, she'll get the lot.
hellotampon
I can't wait till the nagging starts for me... I'm 21. The next oldest child in the family is my 14-year-old sister, and after that, all my cousins are 10 or younger. So I always knew I'd get pressured to have kids from my entire family, even though they know I don't want them, ever- but I figured my sister would probably have kids and they'd leave me alone.

My sister just told us she's a lesbian a couple weeks ago. One of the first things my mother mentioned was grandchildren! What the hell! Now she's going to guilt trip me forever! And my extended family is not going to leave me alone until one of my cousins reproduces! Being the oldest sucks.
turbojenn
Yeah, the heirlooming has already begun in our family - I've got two big crates of dishes in my storage locker that I have no interest in. One is a broken set of soup tureens that have been passed through the women in the family over the last 250 years, and each woman has left a note in the tureen....and the other are my grandmother's china from Germany....neither one do I particularly care for having. To me, its just more stuff to take care of, and would prefer they find a home with someone else. I like my home and possessions to be pretty streamlined though - just ask turboman about my quarterly closet purges...he lives in fear of them! heh.

Aww....hello'pon, that's so great that your sister came out - now you just got stop your family from bagging on you about kids - at age 21, they shouldn't be worrying about that *too* much yet. And besides, gay folks can be parents too!

Thanks for posting that article, misspissed. I do heart Amy Reiter, and that article was fabulous, and definitely something I wish I heard more of from my peers.
cloverbee
turbo, I am the exact same way. If I haven't used it in a couple months, it's out the door. and no trinkets in my house! if it isn't functional, it goes. my roommate (ex-bf) rags me all the time about it. he's a total pack rat.
pollystyrene
Items with historical value (like the military medals you mentioned, doodlebug) can be donated to your local historical society (or the historical society of where the recipient was from.)

As for dishes, unless you have a burning desire for them to go to a family member, you could give them to Replacements.com. They collect fine china and silverware and stuff so people can order piece by piece, like if they break one dish out of their set.
flowergirl
misspissed, that is a really cool article. I've never seen anyone that has actually HAVE kids be so open-minded towards us that don't want to. She seems to really get it. Or a lot of it anyway.

I'm 31 and although I am 99% sure I'm never going to want kids (despite all the people down the years who have told me otherwise - cause of course, they know my deepest yearnings much better than I ever could), I have recently been wondering if I'll end up regretting my decision. While I have absolutely no desire to ever share my home with a child, I'm also of the mind in life that its better to do something and not enjoy it than never know and end up regretting not making the decision. I guess I mean that at least one way or the other I'll know if I hate or love parenthood, whereas if I don't spawn I'll never know.

Of course these are all silly selfish navel gazing thoughts because it is all about me and I don't think you should bring a human being into the world unless you can give it all the love you're capapble of. And of course I'm not capable of that, considering everytime I look at a baby it reminds me of a tiny shrivelled up Mr Burns.
treehugger
luci, sorry I missed your post in time! For my guy's last birthday (he's IMPOSSIBLE to buy for) I did a whole "sexy spy" thing. The color blue predominated. Amazing hooker-ish/stripper makeup. Took an hour to do it right. Had saved some blue and silver false eyelashes, bought a really sexy electric blue wig (straight shoulder length bob with bangs), and a REALLY sexy bra/thong set. (goodwill has AMAZING finds around Halloween) Covered it all with a trench-coat, magnifying glass as a prop...fishnet stockings and the works. Kind of a female James Bond kinda thing.

He was very, very aroused. Said it was the best birthday gift EVER. Heh. I looked so good I even aroused myself. Twas cheap too. I will probably recycle it for a couple years. :-)

So, no, your costume and food plans sound great! How did it go?

Anyway, sorry to get so far off topic...heh. Back to our regularly CBC discussion. :-)
deschatsrouge
If you don't like a lot of clutter and everything has to be functional but you don't want to give the stuff away, you could create a new identity/purpose for it. Like go all Martha Stewart on it.
lucizoe
*drive-by 'cause I'm pampering him*

Mr.Luci got snipped today! When I popped into the exam room afterwards he was lying there in his black tailored shirt, glasses, and socks, holding guaze on his 'nads, grinning like Limbaugh holding a new oxycontin script. Big puppy eyes.

Damn, my man is cute. Currently holding frozen peas on his balls and doing the latest Nation crossword...

Hee - his birthday was yesterday and his two week follow-up is on MY birthday...

(psssst - clover, this is a total aside that belongs in the doggie thread but I'm putting it here. Your puppins loves you and has probably completely forgotten about the bath).
treehugger
Congrats, Luci!!! Hope Mr. Luci feels up and at-em soon! How long do they expect the recovery to take?

Yay!!!
ginger_kitty
You're so lucky, Luci!!

How long did the procedure take?
cloverbee
thank you, lucizoe.
deschatsrouge
Have fun with your man's new plumbing Luci. I wish him a speedy recovery
treehugger
So, how is Mr. Luci feeling today?
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