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missjoy
And yet again:

"Children are the closest thing on this earth to angels, and they deserve better than her."

*banging head on desk*
culturehandy
It's funny, becaue in the actual hard copy letters to the editor, people were standing up for this woman. I suppose that online brings out right wing wackos.

Children are the closest things to angels?????

Bwaaaaaaaaaaaaaahahahahahahahaha. I'll have to remember that next time I see a terror toddler wrecking something.
bluejupiter
I think the comments in this article are totally in line with the (recent?) backlash on feminism. Everything these days is about women getting married and having babies, I swear 10 yrs ago I did not notice this as much. I don't understand this current push towards traditional roles for women (on top of working 40hrs/week) and I really do feel that a lot of women do this stuff cause they feel they are supposed to (or even worse, to keep their boyfriend /soon to be husband), not because they feel that it's what they want.


Maybe other Canadians will know what i'm talking about here: There's a cheese commercial that says if you eat cheese with your loved one, you'll have more love in the house and with more love in your home, you'll have children (they even show a hospital scene with a new baby). What I take from this, is that since my boyfriend and I do not have kids, we must not have love in our home. Sad, pathetic us, eh?
thepointybird
And actually, so what if it is selfish? So what if we CBCers just happen to like living our lives doing exactly as we damn well please? Big fucking deal. The population of the world is not going to die out just because of my underused uterus. I LIKE sleeping til midday, I LIKE eating Nutella on toast for dinner now and then and I LIKE that I never have to watch Bob the Builder. I have scarce enough free time as it is. No way do I want to waste that singing 'The Wheels on the Bus' for the ninetieth time that day.....
culturehandy
I see that there is a backlash on feminism, but I also see more articles written about women not having children, not marrying or staying in the workforce after having children. It just seems to be those commenting on how evil women are if they choose not to be "motherly".
i_am_jan
I'm with you pointybird. Selfish and lovin' it. (Sittin' in sweats, havin' a bowl of Trix, enjoying the peace & quiet, thinking about puttin' on a New York Dolls record in a minute, yawn. (no worries: low overhead lifestyle = more time to do what the f*&%-ever I *please*).

Let's face it: It's *hard* to NOT do what ev'body else in the world tells you to do: get married, bear new consumers for the corps to exploit and sell to. WE did the hard thing and chose to NOT go with the ho-flo.

***Peeps with kids are *jealous*, tee hee : )~ Their lil' brains simply can't understand why we wouldn't want to tie ourselves down and work our fingers to the bone. Hmmmmmmmm....?????????????

But seriously, it's most def. the people who have to duplicate their own egos multiple times ~ and expedite the erosion of the earth's resources ~ and drive big 'ol roadhogs who are *really* the *selfish* ones. Asking everybody and their brother to help pay taxes and tie up politics with ONLY their issues, school and little ego-pleasers. Not to mention bringing a poor old little baby into a f'd up war-world like this. Yawn.

We know.

wink.gif
phobia
Jan, I couldn't agree more. You know what really gets up my nose? When people who are claiming you're selfish throw out those other "reasons" for having kids. You know, "having someone to take care of you when you're old," or "don't you want to carry on your genes/family name/good looks/whatever?" I mean, if these are the reasons people are having kids, how can they not realize how much more selfish that is? Do you want your kid to know that the main reason they exist is to take care of you when you're old??? WTF is that?

And yet, I'm selfish somehow. Fuckers.
culturehandy
I agree. Not having a large family makes you a good consumer. You aren't buying more shit that fills up landfills. Humans are causing the world to go to shit, and if I can stop the world from going to shit by NOT having more little mouths to feed, so be it. If that makes me selfish, fine, but at least I'm enjoying my life.

I don't need children to have a fulfilling life.

People and their crotch fruit.
whatagirlwants
I agree with what you said phobia. I do want kids eventually but not right now because I'm too young and trying to enjoy my life. If someone calls me selfish because of that so be it. The people who say your selfish and start throwing you "reasons" are the one's who can barely take care of their own kids. They know its hard to take care of children. They just want you to suffer along with them. Alot of my friends had children in their early teens and 20's and look at me like I was crazy to not join the group. I laughed at them and said "I'm no idiot."
i_am_jan
Childfree Gs:

I'm pickin up what your layin down!

Just one more thing to add:

I would like to ask some of these "SELFLESS" parents out there: 'yes, and how many minutes would you say you SPEND talking one on one with your kid each week?'

From the people I know, most of them would probably say maybe 10 mins? Wow, that's so generous, I'm impressed by that blink.gif
bluejupiter
Of course, it's like only 10 min Jan! they're too busy- leaving work early and driving the kids to all the different activities they enroll them in (and you know the kids don't really want to be doing all of that!). they keep the kids super busy, so when they get home it's dinner, tv and bed! why bother spending time with them?


on the whole it's humans ruining the world topic, I totally agree. I've always said IF we choose to have kids, I'd want to adopt. I'd rather give to the world rather than take from it, and if I can give a child who's already here a good home and a chance, then why not? We all take so much, why continue the cycle?

We definitely need more population control, cause we can't even take care of the people currently living. So sad.

And I too do not understand why people would want to bring children into this fucked up world. I surely hope it's not cause they think children are the answer to fixing things.
hellotampon
QUOTE(culturehandy @ Oct 9 2007, 06:23 PM) *
Not having a large family makes you a good consumer. You aren't buying more shit that fills up landfills. Humans are causing the world to go to shit, and if I can stop the world from going to shit by NOT having more little mouths to feed, so be it.



9,856,000 joules to power a human being. In ONE DAY.

Another thing. I find it ironic that in our child-centric culture, a frequent reason for having children is so they'll take care of you when you are old. Meanwhile, we put our elderly in nursing homes, bitch about how they should have their licenses revoked when they drive slowly, etc etc.
raisingirl
What I learned from watching TV today: Martha Stewart's daughter spends up to $28,000 a month trying to get pregnant. She's 42. Mom helps her out from time to time (because of course Mom wants to be a grandma).

I don't really give a rat's ass what Martha Stewart's daughter does with her money, but on principle I still think it's atrocious that someone is spending that much money each month (and she's been doing this for about a year, so do the math) when there are so many other children in the world in need of homes -- not to mention all the starving children in Africa and the rest of the world.
ginger_kitty
raisin, that's frightening! I wonder if she has ever considered that she may not be meant to be a mom? Not to mention she is completely overlooking adoption.

bluejupiter, I agree about population control. People seem uneasy around the subject, I find it ironic that pro-lifers are completely cool with taking a woman's right to decide if she wants an abortion. But freak out about population control and thier rights to have as many kids as they wish.

I have met so many selfish parents, I hate it when people decided we are selfish, because we decide not to have kids. I think the honesty that most childfree by choice women have frightens people. A lot of people are affraid to live outside the norm, or to be different. The fact that we don't give a damn about what people think, probably startles people.

missladyj
just found out another friend of mine is pregnant. She only contacts me when she wants people to come see her perform. Now she'll only contact me when she wants people to see her baby perform.


enjoy this link. Live long and die out!


http://www.vhemt.org/
culturehandy
I've heard of vhemt before, and I like it. I firmyl believe that humans need to go. We are doing nothing but fucking the planet up and fucking each other up.

I agree that people are threatened and scared by people who choose not to have children. Talk about bein in total control of your life. There has also got to be jealousy there, too. When you don't have children you can do what you want when you want. You don't need to worry about finding a sitter ot chaning diapers, or buying what the fuck new toy or clothes are hot shit. Not to mention that there are issues around child porn, pedophiles, prostitution. Plus your time is your time!
humanist77
Okay, THIS made me laugh hysterically laugh.gif
sybarite
What strikes me as interesting is that in France, described as maman-centric, that woman's book was nonetheless a bestseller. Clearly it struck a chord or three.

My decision not to have kids is cemented more and more. To be honest, it's the banality of childcare that puts me off. We had a few kids around yesterday, relatives of the mister. They were nice kids, well-behaved and thoughtful but tbh it was an effort to spend time with them. We all had to watch some crap on TV that was child-appropriate, the conversation was equally child-friendly and it was just dull.
phobia
"We all had to watch some crap on TV that was child-appropriate, the conversation was equally child-friendly and it was just dull. "

Oh GOD, tell me about it. I love my friend's kid, but really. And THEN after the lil' one goes to bed, everyone has to practically whisper all the time lest she wake up! Yeesh. And yeah, I totally understand about it being an effort to interact with kids. There's this age range, from like three or four up to about ten, that's really hard for me to deal with. When they're little they're so easily amused, but then they start asking questions and wanting to be entertained. After they get to an age where I can converse with them like grownups, it's much easier.
thepointybird
I agree totally. I went to my nephew's christening, and my cousin's 10 year old daughter was there. I never really see this kid cos I live hundreds of miles away from the rest of my family - I think it was like the second time I'd met her ever. But she was cool, she was at an age where she was starting to get into music and clothes and stuff, and I was able to sit and chat to her about that. Totally fine. Any younger than that and they are just extremely tedious. And they have to have All of your attention, ALL of the time! If you knew adults who acted like that you'd avoid them - I can't see why it's any different.... The worst thing though is the tw*ts who say 'ooh, I don't talk to my children any differently than I would talk to an adult'. That's such a crock. If I started a conversation with their 6yo all about that time 8 years ago when I drank too much whiskey, threw up down myself and woke up next day beside some bloke whose name I couldn't remember, THEN they'd be pi**ed off! But that IS the way I talk to adults!
culturehandy
Sybarite, I totally agree with you. I don't want to have to change my whole life for a child. I currently like to smoke weed, when I want, and pretty much anywhere at home I feel like. I remember getting a vapourizer, and my friends kids saw it. Then asked what it was. Off the top of my head I said it was a jewellery cleaner. I'm not always that quick.

I also can't take it when my dog needs a lot of attention, I couldn't imagine a child.

Plus there is the ever present issue of sex and masturbation. I don't need a child running screaming into my room while I'm doing it doggie!

Call me selfish, but I also think there are more than enough children on this planet, and I've said it before, but there is that whole consumerism thing.
ginger_kitty
The world is over populated, and struggling to manage the children already around. Resources are being deplete, while landfill are overrun. I'd feel guilty adding to the problem by having babies. Mabye us childfree ladies are unselfish afterall?

I have also noticed conversations with parents can be bland. They inevitably have to gab about thier kids at some point, parents just can't resist. Even if they person they are talking to could care less. I enjoy the hubby and I having sex whenever/where ever we want. I love lots of quiet, alone time as well. And I like cussing like a sailor from time to time. My awful neighbor got pissed at me the other day, b/c his bratty kids were in my yard, and I yelled at them, "Get the fuck out of the yard!" (I learned asking nicely doesn't work with these terrors.) And the dad was all upset that I cursed at his brat. I preceeded to curse him out. At one point, he said, "They are just kids, what I am I supposed to do?" And I it felt really good to tell him, "No they are bad fucking kids, not normal kids, and they are like that because you are a bad fucking parent." Anyway, I couldn't imagine constantly editing my conversation, for fear my kid would repeat something I said, or hear something they were to young to be exposed to.

thepointybird
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/fema...e#StartComments

I'm happy to see that most of the comments are sympathetic, although of course you always get the odd idiot.. Like our friend who thinks you can't have humility or be selfless unless you're a breeder. What an utter tool.
humanist77
I think I nearly threw up when reading Charlie's response. I would LOVE to know just how humble and selfless this woman really is. It seems the only thing her children have taught her is to be a judgemental, smug twat.
As for the one worried about child"less" women reading the article, they are certainly free to be upset by it, but it's not like the article was written to attack them...
Too bad the terms & conditions on Dailymail are so stringent against harassment; thank god i have Bust where I can say whatever the hell I want!
culturehandy
I remember reading the comments about how awful it would be for her friends who are duffering fertility problems. Okay, I get that, but wouldn't it be eqaully as bad for the friend if the woman got pregnant without trying? Remember when Miranda got pregnant on Sex and the City? (I know it's not real, I'm just saying!)
pollystyrene
I restrained myself enough to respond, but in case they don't post my comments, here's what I said:

How is making the decision to not cave into societal/familial/spousal pressures to have kids when you know it's not right for you "self-centered and self-indulgent", Charlie in Bedale? Wouldn't it be selfish to have a kid because other people think you should, then be a lousy mother because it's something you never wanted? How do you think it would feel to be the child of a mother who never really wanted kids?

Isn't is less selfish to make a conscientious decision that parenting isn't for you and leave it to people who really want the kids?

How short-sighted and ignorant of you.


Ugh, wtf is wrong with people?
humanist77
well put, polly-I hope it gets posted-although these types are hard to reason with. She sounds like the quintessential type from the Mommy Cult-completely self-righteous and under the notion that no other humans besides perfect mothers can experience the kind of "love" and "joy" and "spiritual wholeness" that can only be derived from child-rearing. Sounds a lot like wingnut Christians whole feel the same way about Jeebus.
thepointybird
She's such a gimp - of course plenty of people are spiritually whole and selfless and have humility. Hasn't she ever heard of Mother Teresa. Or Florence Nightingale? And how can it be, as she seems to suggest, that only parents can feel real love? Is she daring to suggest to me that I don't love my partner or my own parents and siblings enough? I would seriously question that. I do however like to allow myself a little laugh to think that her husband is probably banging his secretary because he finds being with her a welcome relief from having to listen to his sanctimonious wife droning on.....
pollystyrene
LOL, pointy!

We had that list of why we're glad we don't have kids...I think we need a list of women throughout history who didn't have kids.

Pointy mentioned Mother Theresa and Florence Nightingale.

I'll add Debbie Harry.
sybarite
I read this last night and thought I should post it here:

'I spent twelve years of my adult life, working, living my own life. Then I married, and from the moment I became pregnant for the first time I signed myself over, so to speak, to other people. To the children. Not for one moment in twelve years have I been alone, had time to myself.'

From the short story 'To Room Nineteen' by Doris Lessing, who just won the Nobel Prize for literature.
missladyj
Nice one pointy!! haha!

I was at lunch and a coworker asked me if I wanted to have kids. I said no. She asked why. I said because I don't want to.


I swear to G-d if hubby doesn't get snipped, I'm gonna get sterilized.
venetia
Elizabeth 1. Also I think Oprah?

I discovered a whole new reason not to have kids the other day. My partner's mother was staying, and she kept phoning people to talk about children. She phoned my partner's brother to get updates on his child's health, passing it on to us, phoning her husband to pass it on to him, then passing on some other boring thing about the parenting problems of her niece (who also has children), discussing some sort of fight between this niece-mother and some other nosy member of the family over x trivial parenting practice, and so on ad nauseum.

I now know all about how some toddler I have seen maybe once in my life has a cut on his forehead, and I wasn't really even pretending to be interested.

The thought of having any aspect of my own life discussed in these interminable phone calls is horrible. When you have children, they don't just belong to you. Your child may be several people's grandchild, their niece or great niece, a cousin, etc.
pollystyrene
QUOTE(venetia @ Oct 20 2007, 12:50 AM) *
Elizabeth 1. Also I think Oprah?

I discovered a whole new reason not to have kids the other day. My partner's mother was staying, and she kept phoning people to talk about children. She phoned my partner's brother to get updates on his child's health, passing it on to us, phoning her husband to pass it on to him, then passing on some other boring thing about the parenting problems of her niece (who also has children), discussing some sort of fight between this niece-mother and some other nosy member of the family over x trivial parenting practice, and so on ad nauseum.

I now know all about how some toddler I have seen maybe once in my life has a cut on his forehead, and I wasn't really even pretending to be interested.

The thought of having any aspect of my own life discussed in these interminable phone calls is horrible. When you have children, they don't just belong to you. Your child may be several people's grandchild, their niece or great niece, a cousin, etc.


Oh yeah, Oprah.

You're right, venetia. God, it drives me crazy when people I hardly know talk about me getting married at some point. There's this batshit crazy woman who is somewhere between acquaintance and friend to my grandmother. Well, she also works with LeBoy's mom. I hear from both LeMom and my grandmother that because she knows both of them, she feels like she practically knows me and LeBoy and she's always asking them, "when are they going to get married?" After a holiday she asks LeMom if LeBoy got me a ring for a present...wtf? I've never met this woman in my life. Mind your own fucking business.....it should be noted, speaking of Oprah, that this woman's kids went on Oprah, back in the early days when she was doing trashy shows, to confront her and their father about their childhood. Yeah, sounds like you've got puh-lenty of business of your own to mind! huh.gif
raisingirl
...fly-by...

Oprah actually did have a baby at age 14. The baby died in the hospital weeks later (I'm guessing most likely because it was a premature birth?).
designermedusa
The other day a coworker who is in her 50's said this to me about another coworker who is in her 60's. "She can't relate to people that are younger than her because she's never been a mother". First off this is completely rude and incorrect, secondly this coworker knows that I'm not having kids by choice and this coworker doesn't even talk to one of her daughters. I just can't believe the complete rudeness of some people. I didn't even know what to say because I didn't want to start an arguement.

humanist77
what a twit, designer~

Is Anyone On This Bus Interested In Disciplining My Son?
laugh.gif
hellotampon
That comment fron "Charlie" was annoying. I hate to use the people-with-kids-are-just-bitter card, but that's how she sounds. And it really annoys me that the same people who think it's so offensive when a middle-class white woman decides to remain childfree get all bent out of shape when a gay couple wants to become parents or a welfare mom has another child. I don't see why people take these things so personally.
thepointybird
I heart The Onion.
bluejupiter
Not sure if anyone saw this on jezebel.... Some people make me so mad on this issue, and well then some I just want to hug.
http://jezebel.com/gossip/womb-wastelands/...nist-314443.php


Highlight: US editor-in-chief Janice Min tells Observer scribe Lizzy Ratner, "It's almost un-American at this point to say you don't want children, especially from an image perspective. It's almost like saying you're a communist."

If you click on the link in the jezebel article, it's about the French Author we discussed here recently who wrote a book on 40 reasons to not have kids.
thepointybird
Do you know what? I love the fact that, after all has ben said and done, nobody can make us all have babies that we don't want. I know a lot of women DON'T have that freedom, but for the most part, we do. And I, for one, would like to get a "Wooooh-Wooooh!"
deschatsrouge
((((CBCers)))) For saying all the things I'm thinking, but too inarticulate to say.
i_am_jan
Pointybird: Yes, MA'AM, I heard that!!
missjoy
Okay, so Halloween last night - I quite enjoy it, but I have a crazy busy amount of kids (I know I had over 350- I'm guessing about 375). All the kids were fine, many were quite cute.

So I live in a townhouse and a lot of kids were cutting across our lawns (which I'm fine with, they are only about 20 feet wide and that's mine and my neighbour's). Some kids you can tell had parent's that made them go down to the street and around, but I didn't mind them walking on the lawn - I did the same as a kid.

However, if you have a child who is clearly old enough to be walking door to door, and you have a *huge* stroller because the kid refuses to walk (I heard her trying to tell the girl to walk to my house because it was only a few feet, literally, my neighbour's porch and mine are joined, but the girl refused to walk), please don't push your giant stroller across my lawn! I mean really, would you want me to do that to your lawn - and you are an adult - think about what you are doing! Grrr.... there were two adults (including that one) that pushed strollers across my lawn. The other one wasn't quite as annoying because it was a small stroller with a little kid, but even so... geeze!
culturehandy
Speaking of last night, some parents were drivingtheir kids around. Give me a fucking break! Talk about adding to greenhouse gases. Fuckwits.

And kids who didn't say thank you, I'd yell you're welcome back at them, then slam the door.
angiepoo
I love Halloween but this was ridiculous. Some dad walks up to the door with a kid of about 4 years old and holding a baby in his arms (like not even a year old) I give the kid a handful of candy and say "happy halloween" and go to close the door, and the dad of the year says "ummm excuse me, he didn't get any" holding up the baby with no teeth and is asleep!WTF?! he can't even eat it?
missjoy
I'd say most of the kids were pretty good. Yeah, some didn't say trick or treat or thank you, but that was mostly younger kids who seemed kind of overwhelmed. And I was outside so perhaps not knocking at the door threw them off.

I always enjoy the older kids who put effort into it - I have no problem with older kids trick or treating when they seem to be into it. And I don't really mind the kids who have the costumes that are a bit questionable because who knows if they weren't trying or didn't have much money to use to dress up.

I love the little, little kids who seem completely overwhelmed and whose parents are trying to get them to say trick or treat and thank you.

i_am_jan
Yeah so I was thinking: another reason I am thankful to be childfree: not having to take the kids trick-or-treating. It creeps me out these days, ya know? What with the internet, all the trash I now know people do and think these days all plastered out there for the world to see, I'm probably not wanting to take my precious princess door to stranger's-door, have the kids to talk to and accept candy from whomever answers? Yeah. Leave work early mid-week, struggle to get the kids dressed, go door to door or pass out candy, sounds like a pile of work to me just to get up and go to work again the next day. I'm a grump but it seems stupid and glad I don't have to do it, that's all.
culturehandy
There were parents with their kids who said, "and what do you say?"
missladyj
A coworker today asked me when I was gonna start a family.

I said NEVER! I wasn't offened by his comment as I realize he probably doesn't have anything else to talk about and can't really imagine being married and not having kids.

Hubby dejayed a party for a Christening and dudes were asking him about us having kids and again people were stunned that we are married and just aren't reproducing. I forget that to most people this is just odd and doesn't relate to their own sheep mentality.
culturehandy
I had to go grocery shopping on Sunday, and the amount of screaming children was freaking me out so badly. It was making me anxious.

And then there were the minivans.

Look, go ahead and be the most miserable person on the planet, I don't care. Not my fault that you have so many kids. Not my fault that your life is pretty much over. Just don't give me dirty looks beacuse I have no crotch fruit, and I'm being responsible about things. And oh yah, I have disposable income.

That reminds me of the episode of The Simpsons when Springfield becomes less child friendly, and Bart tells Marg that he threw up in her purse. Or Maggie did. It was really funny.
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