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pollystyrene
I'm noticing that, too, CH- no one in my office has kids and we're all of childbearing age. I think a couple of them are still on the fence about having kids, but no one's rushing to have them.

It's quite pleasant- no one has any kids to go on and on about, we all roll our eyes when we have obnoxious kids for patients.
p_176
had lots of discussions about this with friends and whatnot. it's interesting - in my office, where most of the folks are older, it's expected that one day i'll get married and have kids. i don't particularly want children (my boyfriend does)....the most common idea that gets tossed around is the fact that there are now different reasons to have or not have children, than there were [reasons] in the past. also, i see people who are either only children, or who have no children and no other close family, struggle when dealing with illness or loss; they don't have a strong support system.
i_am_jan
To gain a support system is not even a decent reason to bring a child into this world. It is selfish, though.

In regard to the latest issue of BUST, two of my fave childfree chicas are featured: Amy Sedaris and Lynda Barry!!!!!

There's little doubt either of these fabulous girlgods would ever be around doing what they're doing if they had kids. Isn't it marvelous?!

I love that Amy is a (self-described) "domestic goddess" for her own sake. She lives with only her pets. Yet she keeps her home warm and charming, cooks and bakes for the sake of her own comfort. I LOVE THIS IDEA. It has provoked me to start doing some things I never thought of doing unless I had a man to entertain? Like breaking out the Betty Crocker cookbook that I inherited from my ma and making myself like, a seven course meal once in a while or something, baking myself a cake, LOL!

I've left work early today. Just smoked a fatty. Checking out my new Lynda Barry comics (oh. my. gosh. is "What It Is" an AMAZING piece of genius...it's made me want to rearrange my entire life?" Going for a bike ride now. Oh the *joy* of being childfree, manfree, self-sufficient and independent...I'm feeling it right now...and it feels...so...right on smile.gif~
obelix2
I've been thinking about getting old and not having kids lately. My dad's parents are now in separate nursing homes. My grandpa is pretty much gone away from Alzheimer's, and loudly wishes for death. My grandma is in an assisted living community, and is still independent enough to bug my dad many times a day. They never had a great relationship, but now she's turning into a whining child, begging for attention. And it makes me think about my parents, and then myself, getting old.

My dad and I agree that kids don't owe their parents a lot. The kids didn't ask to be born, that was the parents forcing life upon them. So when I tell him that I'm almost looking forward to caring for him and my mom when they get older, he's very flattered. They did a damn good job, and I'm choosing to thank them by caring for them.

There really was a reason that I posted in this thread. Since we're not having kids, my boyfriend and I have jokingly talked about who will take care of us when we get old. And I jokingly say that I need to become my 8-year-old adopted brother's favorite sister so he can take our burden on. But i would never put that on anybody. (What I'd really like is somebody to help me end it when I get to the point where I no longer have any quality of life. But, sigh, USA.)

I've been thinking about long-term care insurance. I'm only 31, so it shouldn't be too expensive. And it'll be a hell of a lot cheaper than raising a child, then expecting that child to provide for me.
pollystyrene
QUOTE(obelix2 @ May 31 2008, 09:49 AM) *
I've been thinking about long-term care insurance. I'm only 31, so it shouldn't be too expensive. And it'll be a hell of a lot cheaper than raising a child, then expecting that child to provide for me.


Let me (us) know if/what you find out about this, obelix! I'm kinda thinking about this, too.
sybarite
I'm not in the US, but I would be curious to hear about what you find out obelix. I think a lot of adult children can feel conflicted about caring for their parents as they grow older and/or become sick. I mean, I'll never earn a fortune, so I could put time in but not money. And if I had children of my own, I expect I could feel torn about financially caring for my kids and caring for my parents. Another reason I'm happy to be childfree. My parents are awesome and I'll want to do what I can.

I had a small preggers scare until this week, which reaffirmed how happy I am to be a non-parent. For starters, my finances currently cover my basic needs and some travel--they couldn't stretch to cover the cost of a baby (shared with himself, but even so). RELIEF.
i_am_jan
Long-term care insurance...hmm, never though about that actually. But good idea, Obelix.

Sybarite: Congrats ohmy.gif

(glad someone's getting laid these days.) =sequeway= moves over to to the "frustrated singles" thread)
pollystyrene
We went out to dinner last night with LeBoy's parents. Somehow we got on the topic of having kids- I think we were talking about comedians joking about having kids; here's one our favorites- especially around 6:20, where he talks about judging parents. Parent or not, that's some funny shit.

Anyway, LeMom dropped another "I think it's the most rewarding thing you can do with your life" or something like that. Arrgh. Really? I'm pretty sure curing cancer would be more rewarding than changing diapers, cleaning food off the walls, sleep deprivation, arguing with someone who's 3 feet tall, contributing to overpopulation and the destruction of the environment, hoping they'll take care of you when you're old.

Not that I plan on curing cancer or having kids. Nope, I've chosen to lead a completely pointless, empty life. rolleyes.gif
culturehandy
Polly, your comment about curing cancer being more rewarding made my chuckle. It's so true, I don't understand this obsession with children. How is it so rewarding??? You had sex, you got knocked up, you had something the size of a melon come out of something the size of a golf ball (okay, that part, good for you, seriously. I would NOT want to do that. Belch). Sleepless nights, shelling out coin for some crotch fruit, loud music, arguments, dating, puberty etc.

How.Rewarding.
pollystyrene
I think it's all about feeling like you've contributed to the advancement the species and that warm & fuzzy feeling you supposedly get with kids. I get the same feeling with my cat and I don't have to give him my car keys or pay for college. Though I do have to clean up his poop and he does wake me up in the middle of the night with his incessant wailing laugh.gif
i_am_jan
QUOTE(pollystyrene @ Jun 2 2008, 02:50 AM) *
I think it's all about feeling like you've contributed to the advancement the species and that warm & fuzzy feeling you supposedly get with kids.


How ironic that that's the feeling you supposedly get with kids..."feeling as though you've contributed to the advancement of the species." I'm trying to think of some of the folks I see breeding around me. Hmm. Someone should at least inform these people of the state of the education system at the moment and also plug them into some environmental literature. The aggressive ignorance found surrounding the breeder community at large is quite a phenomenon to be marveled at, when folks honestly feel as though they are contributing to the advancement of our species by having more babies. Cuz like, I just took a big bong hit and I totally feel as though I've contributed to the advancement of the species laugh.gif
vegdumpling
QUOTE(pollystyrene @ Jun 1 2008, 10:50 PM) *
I think it's all about feeling like you've contributed to the advancement the species and that warm & fuzzy feeling you supposedly get with kids. I get the same feeling with my cat and I don't have to give him my car keys or pay for college. Though I do have to clean up his poop and he does wake me up in the middle of the night with his incessant wailing laugh.gif

what is that thing they called it in science class like 10 years ago, reproductive perogative? the warm and fuzzy feeling is genetics telling you "good job", no advancement necessary. obviously with the overpopulation we've got going on in this world, that is one line of code we no longer benefit from.

my sister is adopted and my grandparents cut her out of the will for that reason. what sort of craziness is that?! first of all, i don't think it's a necessity for anyone to have kids this day and age, there will be plenty of people who want to have an over abundance to make up for those who don't. people reproduce outside their means and that cause problems for the entire family and others with the means adopt and the children are penalized for that.

it just seems to me that most people are at least a little crazy when it comes to their progeny and we don't need any extra crazy in this world.
turbojenn
veg, your grandparents are fucked up. Geez. Do they not get her birthday gifts either? That kind of stuff makes me cringe, but then I worked at an adoption agency for many many years, so I'm especially sensitive to that kind of BS.

And Polly, trust me, working for the cure for cancer is not that inspiring! Bwahahaha!! Most days, I wish I could go back to working at the adoption agency! blink.gif

Its funny, because I generally think I'm a fairly optimistic person, but yet my feelings on procreation do not bear that out. I really wouldn't want to raise a kid where I live - daycare is crazy expensive, but seriously, the schools are fucked up in this city and I don't think anyone should *have* to send kids to private schools because the public system is broken - that really sucks. And I'm not moving out to the suburbs where I can't walk to stuff, and life would generally require me to use a lot more resources. I think many parents either don't analyze the social situation overly much, or they're just a LOT more optimistic about what it means to bring a child into the world, send them to school, etc. I'll take a pass.

OK, now I know this thread has truly grown-up - we're talking about LTC insurance - Ahhhhhhhh! But seriously, obelix, do share whatever you learn - turbomann and I talked about this same issue last night, after talking to my mom who is seriously fed up with her MIL who's in an assisted living community, and headed very soon to nursing care...and gram is driving my mom BONKERS. I'm really dreading the time when my parents will need more help, and sadly, its not that far away, as they don't take care of their health very well.
deschatsrouge
QUOTE(pollystyrene @ Jun 2 2008, 02:50 AM) *
I think it's all about feeling like you've contributed to the advancement the species and that warm & fuzzy feeling you supposedly get with kids. I get the same feeling with my cat and I don't have to give him my car keys or pay for college. Though I do have to clean up his poop and he does wake me up in the middle of the night with his incessant wailing laugh.gif


When people ask me why I'm not having kids that's precisely what I tell them. I have a cat, who I will never have to send to college, and won't get arrested for grand theft auto and possession, who I will not have to send to Juvenal delinquent camp and put through drug rehab. My brother can do all that, and I can have that warm and fuzzy feeling when I give them back.
culturehandy
Vegan are you serious??? what a bunch of assholes.

I was at the park today with my dog, who like Polly and her cat, makes me feel warm and fuzzy inside. awwww right now em is keeping herselg busy and amused by chewing a raw hide, now bother me with mom, mom, mom, mom, mom, mom...anyways...there was a father throwing a baseball so his two boys could practive hitting and one of the kids was whining about how it was his turn. It's myyyyyyyyyyyyyy turn, three strikes your out. It was soooo irritating.

I cannot even think about what it's going to be like when my parents age. My grandmother is so demanding of my mother and I really think that she's starting to lose her mind. I'm an only child and not to be an asshole, but tending to my parents is not exactly how I picture me enjoying my retirement.

I see people having children solely for a dollar amount it certainly doesn't make you think of any sort of advancement or fuzziness deep down inside. Yah, I have fuzziness deep inside, it's indigestion, not breeding.
pollystyrene
I was in Costco with LeBoy the other night and we kept crossing paths with this woman and her 2 or 3 kids, between the ages of about 6-10. The kids were whining and just underfoot and she was just frustrated, but not really doing anything to help the situation. As we got past another traffic jam they were causing, LeBoy and I snickered and I literally sang out, probably a little too loudly, "I LOVE my non-functioning ovaries!!" Too funny.

Does anyone watch that show, Moving Up, on TLC? Basically, a family moves out of a house and the new owner moves in, but the original owner gets to come back and see it after they've re-decorated and everything. So this recent episode, the original owner turned the bigger of the two bedrooms into a nursery for her baby. The new owner was single and child-free, and she turned the room into....basically a really fancy walk-in closet. She had a chandelier, funky wallpaper, a nice couch and a big display of her fancy shoes. Yeah, it was a little indulgent and materialistic, but what the hell? So the original owner came back and you could tell, she was a little jealous that she had to use that room for her kid and this woman got to use it for her shoes. It was pretty funny.
turbojenn
Oh dear...turbomann dropped a comment while we were tipsy yesterday afternoon to the effect of "if we had a baby," and I was shocked, and then WHOA...I just don't understand what he doesn't GET about my desire to remain child free. WTF? This comes up about twice a year, and I'm stunned every time. And since I was a bit tipsy, I laid into him pretty good on that front. I don't believe that I could have our marriage AND have kids...might be pessimistic, but he's not exactly an equal partner on the domestic front, no matter how much I ask for him to help more. I deal with it now, but I GUARANTEE you that if we had kids, I would not be putting up with the workload imbalance. He says "I would totally help more." I counter - "what's keeping you from helping NOW?" Its an unhappy discussion. And since I have the uterus, childfree we shall remain. Unfair - maybe, but that's the breaks.

Thankfully, the discussion passed as quickly as it came, and we had some fun tipsy portions, but sheesh! And lets be clear...afternoon drinking and portions are much more complicated if there are kiddos involved! wink.gif
moxiegirl
Dude--what doesn't he get? You've been together for-ever and ever and never changed your mind. Really.
doodlebug
Oh turbo....

(((((turbo)))))
konphusion26
Hi Turbojenn, I don't think we've ever spoken before. smile.gif Gosh you sound so much like me. I just had that exact convo with my hubby about 2 wks ago. There is no way in this world that I would be willing to keep up the house without help and birth/raise a child. I would be the psycho wife and mother in here. Luckily, the mr. doesn't want kids right now - otherwise he'd be short too. I don't know what it is that they don't get! Even when you tell them expressly what is irking you, they just dont have it in them (i guess) to help out once they've become comfortable. Thank God for birth control. LOL Childfree is the way to be!
culturehandy
Turbo, fucked.up. I love your retort on what's stopping him now.
hellotampon
I think some people really have no idea what it's like to have a child. They can't even fathom it. I remember being blown away when my boyfriend said that he's never changed a diaper before. Or when my friend thought that having a puppy was like having a baby. NO.

My sister is 7 years younger than me. My cousin, who we practically raised till she was in school, is 10 years younger than me. And I spent about 60 hours a week babysitting every summer when I was in high school and did quite a bit of afterschool sitting during the school year, including entire weekends. I have also had 2 puppies, and they aren't like kids, and they don't stay puppies for 18 years.

Most of the people I know who talk about having children in an abstract and idealistic way are either men or the youngest in their family.
sybarite
Oh turbo, I'm sorry. That must be frustrating. I think my mister had a similar impression a few years back, that I would turn around one day and want a child. However, over a year of out-loud soul searching from me about why I didn't want a child has convinced him. wink.gif

He does already have a child though; now that she's living with us, and now he sees his male friends having new babies and being exhausted and tied to jobs they don't like, he's pretty relieved we don't also have a small baby around.

To be honest, I don't think you're necessarily being unfair to be unilateral, if he's not taking in what you say.
turbojenn
Thanks, everybustie! I've had SUCH a perfect weekend, all to myself, as turbomann was in MI with his family...and there's no WAY I could give up long weekends all for me...I *need* my alone time, its not an optional thing. And he loves going to visit friends and family in MI, so it all works out.

Yeah, turbomann would fall into that "never changed a diaper, never babysat" category. Like you, hello, I was babysitting from about age 11 on, and that's as good a preview as any...its a real shame that more boys don't babysit - maybe they'd have more thought & sense about the responsibility of having a family if they'd experienced a tantrum or 30 first-hand. wink.gif

thepointybird
Actually, I've never changed a nappy, or babysat, or even held a newborn baby. And I still have no desire to breed. I just don't find children cute, at best I find them mildly irritating, and at worst I actually cannot stand to be around them. Even well-behaved ones annoy me when they're in my presence, as I constantly have to watch what I say and do in front of them. No fun! Luckily, my mister feels exactly the same as I do, so he's not gonna be bugging me for them any time ever, thank Maud! I know plenty of people who feel the same way that I do, it would be nice if society could just accept that some people, even some women, just aren't really interested in children, period.

Konphusion, we should totally get that printed on t-shirts - "Childfree - the way to be!"


pollystyrene
Here's my favorite childfree t-shirt. Great double entendre.
sybarite
Yeah, I occasionally babysat as a teenager, but only ever to make money or as a favour for family friends. Back then, I really disliked young children, whereas now I like them well enough but just don't want one of my own. As the cliche goes, I like being able to hand them back.

Pointybird, that's probably my biggest peeve about kids: their presence can be inhibiting. I like involved adult conversations; IME so much of the conversation when kids are around is so mundane and focuses on them, their preferences etc. When I was a kid, the adults sat around and discussed politics and we kids sat on the side, taking it all in. How come that doesn't happen anymore?
pollystyrene
QUOTE(sybarite @ Jun 9 2008, 02:24 PM) *
Yeah, I occasionally babysat as a teenager, but only ever to make money or as a favour for family friends. Back then, I really disliked young children, whereas now I like them well enough but just don't want one of my own. As the cliche goes, I like being able to hand them back.

...When I was a kid, the adults sat around and discussed politics and we kids sat on the side, taking it all in. How come that doesn't happen anymore?


Same on both counts here, too, syb. I was really enthusiastic about the money and thought I liked dealing with kids. Then I actually had to do it and they were a PITA. I was a bad babysitter. Nothing abusive or negligent, I just did a minimal amount of work and interaction.

I always spent more time with the adults than most of the kids in my family. My mom's side is huge, so I had a couple of favorite cousins and then I'd avoid the rest and hang out with the adults and observe.

Turbo, that's a very good point about men having a better idea about kids and responsibility if they actually babysat. rolleyes.gif
culturehandy
I agree, why don't children just sit back and take it all in.

I'm an only child and I think one of the reasons I relate better to those who are older than me is because my parents just had me perched when they would visit and I would just sit and listen to them talk.

Now it's all about video games and TV, kids don't even go outside and play anymore. A television is not a parent!

*snorts* Polly, that's a great shirt.
i_am_jan
That's interesting about kids listening while the adults talk. I remember that, too, hanging by listening to the conversation. Now, it's the adults asking the kids w'sup so the adults can learn the new cool buzz word or newest style trend (like in the movie "Babymama", LOL)...parents try to be "cool like the kids" rather than just being THE PARENT.
sassy
I'm only 23 but I've known for a long time that I didn't want children. Luckily my husband feels the same way. There is a girl at my work who is 24 and she just got pregnant. She's only 6-weeks along, but has told everyone she thinks she's having a boy, is already getting morning sickness, etc. She even told us what nights she was having sex with her husband before she conceived. Ugh. What bothers me most, though, is that she went to a really expensive private college, but yet has no aspirations or career goals. "All I've ever wanted to do is be a mom." So basically, as soon as she goes on maternity leave, her career is going to be stay-at-home mom. I understand that is a hard job, but as a woman, I find it personally insulting that another woman would take the time and money to go to a prestigious school and then do nothing with her degree. If she wants to better society, she would be better off using her education to give back than to have a million babies.
turbojenn
Well, sassy, I just think that this is what's so great about life since the women's movement - we have the ability to really choose the life we want. And if that's going to an expensive college and then choosing to stay at home and be a mom - so be it. I certainly don't begrudge anyone else's choice, even if its not mine.

Oh, and here's a really great post on one of my very favorite work/life blogs about parenting, and the comment discussions are usually nearly as good as the blog posts. Penelope isn't afraid to get a little controversial, but I love that she shares her life as it is, good and bad.
sassy
turbojenn: I agree with you. I try not to judge other people on their choices as I would not like to be judged on mine but it still makes me mad. I cringe everytime I think about the fact that her scholarship money could have been given to someone who really needed it. As for me, I fell in that middle-class range that had a very difficult time getting scholarship money but could have still used it desperately. Now I'm $16,000 in debt and even if I wanted kids, I couldn't have them for at least 10 years with the money I owe in student loans.
sybarite
Turbojenn, thanks for that link. This line really stood out for me: 'Parents love their kids but don’t love being with them on a daily basis.' The author, a parent herself, readily admits she'd often rather be at work then spending time with her kids. She also makes the argument that societal expectations of mothers are insanely disproportiate to those placed on fathers.

I know I'm preaching to the choir here, but the article hit on a central reason I don't want to have kids. With kids, your focus is on care and maintenance. Feeding, bathing, driving kids is the focus of every day. I know parents often feel it is worth it and I believe it must be, but I don't choose that life and those routines for myself.

I would nearly want to be a mom so I could systematically challenge all the sexist assumptions thrown at mothers (and fathers) all the time. wink.gif Some friends of mine who have become parents, however progressive they have been beforehand, have fallen into utterly traditional gender roles once a child comes along.
turbojenn
Glad you liked the article, syb. I thought it very well balanced, in covering several different kinds of families and parenting styles, and I found the honestly refreshing.

As feminist as I am, the gender roles in our house are pretty damned traditional - and sometimes it really chafes me...but at the same time, I feel completely possesive of my kitchen, and don't want anyone else cooking in it, much less choosing what I'm going to eat for dinner...so I know its a choice. I would *definitely* appreciate some help in the housework dept. though, but like some of those couples, our tolerances for filth are far different, and it makes it hard sometimes to get him to pitch in, or help NOW...he's more of a "I'll get to it later" kind of guy....and he will get to it, I'll give him total credit for that - I just have to let go of my need for the bathroom to be clean NOW. wink.gif

That said, I fear my controlling compulsions if I were to have kids, and I'm happier just to avoid that whole mess, and retain the happy partnership I currently enjoy. And Saturday afternoon naps. Those are real good too. heh.
thepointybird
Heheee, just had to share this with you all.... I was in the local shop yesterday waiting to pay, and this woman had 2 kids who were throwing the biggest feckin' tantrum because she wouldn't buy them any chocolate. It was particularly annoying as the older of the kids seemed to be about 8, so he was way to old to be pulling that tantrum shit. They were causing a major hold-up and everyone else in the queue was getting more and more annoyed by them. Then, outta nowhere, this old lady who was in front of me in the line turned and said to me really loudly, making sure the mother of these kids could hear "Oh, I'm so glad I never bothered with all that. I've got no kids, and I've never regretted it for a minute!" Brilliant! I loudly agreed with her "Well, I won't be having any either, and that's why!" I love this old lady, I want her to be my adopted grandmother! Wish I could just pull her out next time someone starts giving me that "you'll regret not having kids" shit.....
culturehandy
Speaking of speaking out when there are miserable crying little crotch fruit in lines, if I'm with someone, I'll say something about how bratty the kids are. Loudly. So the parents can here. Then I celebrate my desire to not have children whatsoever.

Turbo, another bonus of no bebes, you can fuck whenever and whereever you want to, you don't need to make sure the kids are asleep. I recall one time I went over to see someone and his kids were there, needless to say we didn't have sex because his girls were having a rough night, and kept on pitter pattering down the stairs "daddeeeeee" *shudders and the thought of own kids*
damona
i know i don't belong in here, so i will keep my comments short, however, i just have to say something about the last few posts. i just want to say that i have a 5 and 7 year old who are both "too old" to be throwing fits in public places. however, they have autism. they literally don't understand that that is not appropriate behavior for a store. they are not rainman, they don't walk around flapping their hands and reciting multiplication tables, they seem just like "normal" kids, if you are just looking at them. i have many times been hurt by comments about how i shouldn't take them places or how "MY kid knows how to behave in a store" or, my personal favourite "that's what happens when kids have kids, they have no idea what they are doing and the kids are total brats".
all i am saying is that things are not always what they seem and the mother with 2 screaming kids in line just might have more to deal with than spoilt kids. comments like these hurt when your kids are not "normal". please, don't make our lives any harder.

eta: i totally support childfree people and i am sure as hell not a person to say "oh, you don't know what you're missing... you have to have kids!" it's completely your business if you want kids or not. i'm just asking for a little understanding and the same respect i give to all of you.
culturehandy
My comments are usually aimed at the little brats who scream for chocolate or something and their parents, instead of saying something to the child or acting like a parent, coddle the child and reward the child for bad behaviour.

oooh the kids having kids is just rude.

i_am_jan
Here in this thread, we completely understand all of the pressure parents are under and the responsibilities one takes on, foreseen and unforseen, when choosing to bring additional members into their families. We simply are celebrating the choices we've made to not have to deal with those many responsibilities. With the majority of our species choosing to breed and being in a position to look at us funny constantly for being outside that status quo, we find it helps to celebrate OUR choices. That's all we are doing here...just this TINY, LITTLE SPACE for a childfree individual to come to and share is all we ask rolleyes.gif

Also, some of us are very annoyed by children. It's one of the many reasons we chose not to have them. We cannot appreciate the parental experience at all. I am very sorry to hear when children have additional problems beyond the normal ones we all have. We're certainly not here to revel in anyone's problems.
missladyj
Word, jan.


I am beginning to realize how special this space is when all the women around me are poppin kids out like fuckin pez dispensers and my girl who just popped gives me the run down on who is pregnant, when they are due and if it is their first or second time. It turns out people are asking her about when am I gonna pop, She knows I am not reproducing . I could care less about these people and their fucking crotch fruit.

it just hit me that NOT having a kid makes me a freak/outcast. Which is fine with me cuz I like getting a full nights sleep. So this space where I can talk and vent with other CBCers is really a valuable support system where I don't have to be made to feel like a freak for not wanting to reproduce.




humanist77
ugh, this coworker of mine makes me sick. Someone mentioned their friend just having a baby and she starts whining "I want a baaaaabyyyyy!!" and today she was looking at a magazine and pointed out exactly what diamond she wants in her engagement ring....except she's single. She's 30, incredibly attractive and in great shape, but she's freaking because she thinks her time is running out and she's the type to jump into a relationship and marry a guy after 6 months just to fulfill those needs.
It's these types of women who scare potential mates away-they just want a ring and a baby. I want to shake her!
turbojenn
WORD, Jan.

This is our place to vent, and share the experience of being childfree. Of COURSE we know not all kids are brats, but I find it incredibly frustrating everytime a parent comes in here to claim offense, or ask understanding....we do that everyday in IRL - we are not evil CBCers who make rude comments in public, and most of us are totally sympathetic to the challenges facing every single parent.

BUT, the dominant paradigm of our culture is to reproduce, and every social message tells us to get with the kids - NOW. We're making a *different* choice, and this is a Sacred space for us to have whatever discussions we want. We know its the internet, and its a public place, but there are other threads on this board for parenting support, and I give parents the courtesy of staying out of them, because I am not a parent, and no matter how much I try to understand/sympathize, I'm not IN that experience, so I don't think it's my place to comment or offer my thoughts on parenting.

And I don't mean to revive the parent vs. CBC battle of '07, but its important for us to stand firm about the purpose of this thread, and in solidarity with each other.

Humanist, I am so sorry for your co-worker....all the wedding and baby porn in this country is so sick...I guess that's why I avoid all "women's" magazines. I'll take The Onion anyday. wink.gif
i_am_jan
Couldn't resist sharing this:

http://www.theonion.com/content/opinion/we...erve_the_earths

(sorry my links aren't clickable)
humanist77
I love that one, jan!
the boy sent me this one today-I haven't gotten the chance to read it yet, but hope it's a good one~

ETA-and it is! Pretty friendly article, really. I am tempted but won't look through the comments. I know it'll just be one long tug-of-war.
sassy
9-week Pregnant Co-worker: So you really never want to have kids?

Me: I would get steralized if I could find a doctor who would do it at my young age.

9-week Pregnant Co-worker: But having a baby is the epitome of being a woman.


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i_am_jan
sassy: Ha ha, that's rich ... the epitome of being SOME women is ignorance, let's face it. I mean, if YOU love popping out consumers, fine, but to say that to someone else? Your co-worker sounds unable to see beyond her own ego's desires. This sort of parent frightens me for her children.

humanist: Love that article, it's good to see ONE DISSENTING OPINION once in a while, eh?

Also, I always have to laugh when I hear parents use this tired cliche: "I never thought it possible to love another human being so deeply until I had my own child."

I mean, gee, how hard is THAT to fathom? Your child is LITERALLY AN EXTENSION OF YOURSELF. I would hope you would love it deeply. The same as you love YOURSELF. In what way is this difficult to fathom for some people, I wonder? I always want to respond: it is MINI-YOU, how could you not be gushing? I only hope the poor kid is as happy to be on this wonderful earth as you are to have her join you here, you generous, unselfish ball of love!
faerietails
QUOTE(sassy @ Jul 1 2008, 06:54 AM) *
But having a baby is the epitome of being a woman.


snort. i recently read angelina jolie say something like that. it's obnoxious.
humanist77
I massaged a guy today who has a new baby at home, and he said he hasn't slept for the last month. He asked me if I had any children, and I *retorted*, 'NO, I like getting sleep every night!'. He remained silent for awhile......oh, sometimes I just can't control myself.
girltrouble
QUOTE
I am beginning to realize how special this space is when all the women around me are poppin kids out like fuckin pez dispensers ... I could care less about these people and their fucking crotch fruit.

lady j, thank you for making me pee myself.

why have i never come in this thread before? my best friend and i go shopping, and she gets the best "goddamn fucking no-neck monsters" look on her face whenever we encounter children. she hisses at them. i love her. she is so friggin' funny.
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