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doodlebug
I was thinking about being childfree on the bus today, on the way from one job to another. I just kept thinking over and over, it's not that I think I COULDN'T find happiness, or whatever, in motherhood, regardless of its day-to-day horrors and inequities. I'm absolutely certain that it IS very rewarding, and spiritual, and all the other things people say about it. But....it's all the OTHER lives I COULD possibly live, if I didn't tie myself to a narrower and inescapable future pre-ordained by my ovaries.

The other night when I was stoned and sitting in a pub listening to a friend's band, I wrote in my notebook: "My life is my own undiscovered country to explore." And I know that sounds kind of cheesy - hey, I was stoned and drinking pints, and I'm such a cheap drunk, too - but at the same time, it makes me think about all these alternative paths there are for women (or no paths - we'll have to hack them down!), if only we have the guts to go after something different than what is expected of us. I like the idea of being this adventuress, exploring the corners of my own existence and seeing where it all ends up, without having the enormous (lifetime) responsibility of a child.

I'm too tired to explain this properly. God, can you imagine how tired I'd be with a kid? When would I have ANY energy left for adventures?
thepointybird
QUOTE(doodlebug @ Sep 6 2008, 07:05 AM) *
I'm too tired to explain this properly. God, can you imagine how tired I'd be with a kid? When would I have ANY energy left for adventures?


Hmmm, well I'm pretty grumpy and tired today because of someone else's crotch-fruit - the baby that lives upstairs from me seems to have discovered a new game of hurling things around its room while squealing at the top of its lungs. Which it decided to play at 5am this morning. Funnily enough, mum and dad of said baby apparently weren't finding this as detrimental to their night's sleep as I was..... Grrrrrrrrr! mad.gif
sassy
Just found out a friend from high school, who is 22, is pregnant with her second child. Her whole situation is the type of thing that makes me really annoyed. She is very smart, etc. but she dropped out of college when her and her husband elected to have their first child (read: it was planned) and now she is having the second in May. She hasn't done anything with her life since the first baby and I really think she is going to end up being 40 with who knows how many kids wondering why she never went to school, found a career she liked, or took time to herself before kids. I just don't understand the rush. Yes, I'm 23 and married, but I don't want kids and if I did, I certainly would wait until I had a steady job/graduated college to have them. Why do you need to start a family at 20?? You are still a child yourself!
treehugger
QUOTE(thepointybird @ Sep 8 2008, 04:08 AM) *
Hmmm, well I'm pretty grumpy and tired today because of someone else's crotch-fruit - the baby that lives upstairs from me seems to have discovered a new game of hurling things around its room while squealing at the top of its lungs. Which it decided to play at 5am this morning. Funnily enough, mum and dad of said baby apparently weren't finding this as detrimental to their night's sleep as I was..... Grrrrrrrrr! mad.gif


I'd have started beating on the ceiling right under their bedroom. Gah.
thepointybird
QUOTE(treehugger @ Sep 9 2008, 11:13 AM) *
I'd have started beating on the ceiling right under their bedroom. Gah.


Believe me, I was tempted. Sooooooo annoying!
Christine Nectarine
QUOTE(sassy @ Sep 9 2008, 05:53 AM) *
Just found out a friend from high school, who is 22, is pregnant with her second child. Her whole situation is the type of thing that makes me really annoyed. She is very smart, etc. but she dropped out of college when her and her husband elected to have their first child (read: it was planned) and now she is having the second in May. She hasn't done anything with her life since the first baby and I really think she is going to end up being 40 with who knows how many kids wondering why she never went to school, found a career she liked, or took time to herself before kids. I just don't understand the rush. Yes, I'm 23 and married, but I don't want kids and if I did, I certainly would wait until I had a steady job/graduated college to have them. Why do you need to start a family at 20?? You are still a child yourself!


/delurks
sassy, just to play devil's advocate here, from what you said it seems like this woman made an active choice to have these children, and isn't that what it's all about, supporting women's choices about IF and when they have kids? since the kids are still young/gestating is there something else that makes you think she won't go to school/work/find success in other areas of life at some point?
deschatsrouge
I read some where about women having children first, raising them till they are school age and then getting their education and having a career. I think that if a woman wants to do it in that order, it should be okay. Women should have that option, if they don't want to play games with their fertility. When I first heard about it, it startled me. I never before that, thought that a woman can have kids first, go to school second. I know that most Busties, and professional women do it in the "traditional" order, school first, babies second. I have respect for women who have babies first, education second, because they are doing it with more financial burden. They have to plan a little more, budget a little more, work harder, ect. But they have goals to achieve, and they work hard to "have it all." Even if it isn't in the "right" order.

I do not agree with women who have babies because that's what society/husband/parents/religion wants of them. Women should have babies because it's a choice they themselves made, for themselves and not any institution.
sybarite
As long as someone (woman or man) doesn't try and foist their choice to have children on me as the only right choice, I can support their wanting to have kids. As long as I don't get dragged in to babysit, or they don't assume my house is child-friendly place where their kids can make a mess, I'm happy if they're happy. It's when the choice to have children is presented as a societal default and I'm seen as just not getting with the programme that I get annoyed.

I'm lucky. Friends are having babies all around me these days, but no-one is making me feel odd for not going there. (Nor should they, these are my friends after all.) We have the mister's kid living with us most of the year: that's enough childcare for me. I am serene in my baby-free world.
sassy
Don't get me wrong, I understand your opinions, but she dropped out of school with only one year left to have a baby. And we're too young!!
mornington
since when did it become necessary for the whole family to come to the supermarket? I mean if you're a single parent then ok, you've got to bring the kids. At least keep them on a leash. Why the fuck does the food shopping require three generations to do it - granny, mum, dad, and the kids - surely someone can stay home with the kids? My cheery mood was further compounded by a run in with Ms Ankle-barging Pram-Pusher. Obviously I wasn't getting onto the bus fast enough (this might have had something to do with the ten other people trying to get onto the bus too).


The only thing about "kids first, education later" is - what if, fifteen years down the line, they're single parents, or can't afford to go back to college, or can't get a job when they go back to work? I can see the advantages, but it seems like a big risk to me. That said, I couldn't imagine having kids at 22 (my age, in other words).
sybarite
Mornington, we were out at a self-proclaimed drinks festival earlier today. The crowd consisted of tourists, thirsty young people, the odd foodie or microbrewery aficionado... and parents with small kids who mainly ignored them and sat at tables quaffing locally brewed pints.

Trips to the supermarket en famille surely just sucks for everyone involved: the stressed parents, the bored and restless kids... dividing the labour seems to make more sense.
girltrouble
a conversation in our car:

g: well, that's how you take care of a baby. you tickle them.

me: no, the best way to take care of a baby is to drown them.

g: yeah. i see your point. i was thinking about that baby on board sticker back there, and i was thinking about baby water boarding. that'd work too.
culturehandy
well, this is lovely. I was over at my father and step mothers today, and she asked me when I was going to have children.

Well, let me see, I'm not dating anyone, soooo. NO!

I was said there is lots of time for that, I'm only 25 and I have lots of time for that. She said you're almost 30 and time is running out. I said I was too young, she said no. So, when her neice was 24 and getting married, she said it was too young, evidently, making the decision to share your life with someone is a far bigger decision than choosing to bring another life into this world.

I was speechless. well, we want granchildren they say. Look, if I ever reverse my decision to have children, I'll have them because I want to, not because you want grandchildren.
girltrouble
you could always be super sarcastic to your parents say, "if you really want grandkids, you had better work on giving me another sister. cos no kids are coming from me."

ugh i hate that shit.
culturehandy
My mother is accepting of the fact that I don't want children. Deep down I know she thinks I'll change my mind and I know she's slightly disappointed, but she still realizes it's my decision to make.

But GT, that is a good line. hee hee, I'll have to use that.
i_am_jan
g: yeah. i see your point. i was thinking about that baby on board sticker back there, and i was thinking about baby water boarding. that'd work too.[/color]
[/quote]

Ngt...ngt...ngtBWAHAHA!!! (HOLY water boarding babies batman blink.gif laugh.gif

culture: the thought of you having kids at this point is crazo. I wonder if she realizes deep down what is going on in your life. (from the threadz, you seem to be mid-career-hell, mid-SF-heck, exploring aspects of your life to the maxx and having a spot of fun, whatever else. JUST drop it all and BREEED, OKAY!!!! (rib, rib tongue.gif )

(sorry, I'm reading through this thread and having seeeww much fun)
pollystyrene
Ugh, we got an invitation to the 2nd birthday party for LeBoy's cousin's kid. I so don't want to go. But there will be family members, ones I like, who I may not see until who-knows-when. At what point do people stop having these big family parties for their kids? Why do they have to be the only time the family gets together?

LeBoy's dad's 60th birthday is this weekend and I wish it were an adult-only party, but no such luck. LeSister is planning it and when she asked him if he wanted an adult-only party, he just looked at her incredulously, and said, "yes, of course!" It's sweet and everything that he wants to have the kids there, but I think she (and LeBrother) was looking for an excuse to get a babysitter and have a night without their little crotch fruit.

I was really surprised- my cousin on my mom's side, from one of the few uber-Catholic factions of the family, is getting married next month and the reception is adult-only. I'm contemplating it for my wedding someday.
deschatsrouge
If Mrs. Rouge and I ever tie the knot, it will be child free. If anyone dares ignore this request, their crotch fruit will be on the dinner menu.

Horrible, isn't it? Whats worse is I have considered actually putting this on the wedding invites.
girltrouble
uh.... actually...... sounds like my kinda wing-ding.

speaking of wing-dings. baby's arms make terrific "hot wings" although a bit fatty. but the meat is so tender....


and yes, they taste like chicken... wink.gif
auralpoison
Can I ask a weird question? Why do people have big birthday parties for kids that are too little to understand/enjoy them? All of my gatherings were small until I was five & was like, "Birthday party?! Hells fuckin' yeah!"

I read some quote from Liev Schreiber the other day about how horrified he was at he & Naomi's Watts' kid's birthday. Surrounded by strange parents with even stranger squalling kids & he was absolutely mortified when the bairn stuck it's tiny little fist into the cake. He was like, 'my mom bought that nice cake . . .'

I am appalled at the idea of having some tiny, alien, foreign creature kicking about my insides, siphoning off my food/water.

It's funny. My mother knew I wasn't going to have children. She accepted it. The redneck talks frequently about how much she loooooved being a step-grandma! Um, no. My mother told me she thought the little girl was evil & that the boy was greedy.
girltrouble
QUOTE
I am appalled at the idea of having some tiny, alien, foreign creature kicking about my insides, siphoning off my food/water.
fucking interlopers!
auralpoison
And the little bastard would mean I couldn't get my drink on!

I worked with a girl once that opted NOT to breastfeed because she wanted to go back to smoking/drinking/drugging. All I could think was, you might as well because with your genetics/parenting skills that kid is gonna be a fucktard anyhow.
sybarite
I love Liev Schrieber even more now.

There's the childraising, and then there are all the idiot other parents you would have to deal with on a regular basis, unless you were the hermit family and homeschooled until college.

Living with the stepteen, I can attest you can get your drink on with a kid in the house... but then you have to censor yourself until he/she's gone to bed...
girltrouble
QUOTE
...And the little bastard would mean I couldn't get my drink on!
QUOTE
but then you have to censor yourself until he/she's gone to bed...
little nazi rugrats!



oh! i hate them so!

this is america, you f'in' stubby pinkos! *busts out her machine gun with the miniature/drink holder/ashtray attachment and squeezes off a few rounds
auralpoison
Oh, I was talkin' about being *pregnant* & drinking, Sybarite. I don't need me no babies, but I especially don't need me no fetal alcohol syndrome babies!

And, uh, my mom DRANK (She usually wasn't visibly drunk, she didn't roll like that until I moved out). I could mix you up just about anything you wanted by the time I got my period. I could MacGuyver a kegtap if needed. There was a bit on True Blood where Tara tells Sam she could make cocktails by thirteen & he said, "That's fucked up!" She says, "Ain't it, though." I laughed so hard I peed & then I felt a little sad for five seconds.
girltrouble
QUOTE
fetal alcohol syndrome babies!
mini drunkards!





(i loved that trueblood line too, ap)
candycane_girl
AP, I don't understand the huge birthday parties for kids that don't even know what's going on either! It's really huge in the Indian community. It used to just be a huge party at the kid's house but now it's gotten to the point where people rent out a hall and get all dressed up just for some 1 year old that will never remember it.
thepointybird
To be honest, I always remember me & my bro's very young b'day parties as more of an excuse for the adults around to get really, really wasted. As I remember, it was really kinda fun! My mum went all blotchy & giggly, my dad argued with people over silly shit and my crazy alco uncle kept handing me and my brother £10 notes. Such is the joy of being raised in a working class Northern Irish family!
Ronia D'Arc
Um, how do you do this? I'm completely new to this whole chat/forum thing.

Like, is anyone there? Is ANYONE THERE???

Haaaallloooooooooo, is anyone there? Can you heeeeaaar me?

Ok, girls, or non-girls if you're not a girl, I'd like to introduce myself:

My name is Ronia D'Arc--I'm a 34-year-old mommy of one child (a tomboy). I'm married to a man who can be wunderbar at times but who also at times makes me want to put my head in the toilet and flush, flush, flush away.

I work as the executive assistant at a library--it's great but also not great. In fact, right now it's not great at all. Right now I hate it. I hate being an executive assistant. I hate opening interoffice envelopes. I hate wearing conservative clothes. I hate pretending to care when I don't care.

But I like the library--no, I love the library. I am a book-y person, ie kind of weird, so I fit right in with all my book-y (weird, in a lovable way) coworkers. That's what I like about my job--my coworkers.

But what am I doing? I didn't come here to bore you with these boring details about my boring work life! I came to ask you to visit my blog, Ronia D'Arc Tells The Truth. (http://roniadarc.blogspot.com)

I'm asking you to visit my blog because it's an anonymous blog (I'm using a pseudonym) and so I can't tell my friends or family about it. I don't have any readers except for my husband, and he only reads it because I force him to.

Soooo...I have no real readers. And I need someone to read my freaking blog. Please, please read it. Just one sentence of one paragraph of one entry. PLEASE!! I will be ETERNALLY GRATEFUL!!!


Ronia

P.S. I'VE HAD TWO ABORTIONS

girltrouble
*sigh*

*murmurs to herself*
do not delete the post....do not delete the stupid post....do not delete the stupid post by the idiot who hasn't read the thread.... do not delete the stupid post by the idiot who hasn't read the thread and thinks she will get anyone to read her goddamn blog..... do not delete the stupid post by the idiot who hasn't read the thread and thinks she will get anyone to read her goddamn blog by coming in here and shitting all over the space...... do not delete the stupid post by the idiot who hasn't read the thread and thinks she will get anyone to read her goddamn blog by coming in here and shitting all over the space and telling us shit we could care less about......

*bites her hand to keep from deleting the stupid post by the idiot*
auralpoison
WTF? Dingdanged yahoos.

I read a post & it was snooze city.
i_am_jan
QUOTE(Ronia D @ Sep 19 2008, 05:06 AM) *
P.S. I'VE HAD TWO ABORTIONS


This is a P.S.?

pollystyrene
*cough*

No readers? Why would that happen? Just because you're crazy doesn't mean it's art [or a blog].

Anyhoo....I was talking to my co-workers (we're all childfree) about the birthday party. One of them has been invited to her husband's nephew's Christening; the problem is that it's a dual-Christening. They're doing it with the wife's sister's kid as well, with a party afterwards. So, now my co-worker is trying to figure out if it would be rude to not give a gift to her sister-in-law's sister's kid. Her husband's mom says they should get the kid something, but she really doesn't think she should. Gah, why do these breeders put us in these situations? I suggested she just the kid some token gift. One of those 99 cent cards from Hallmark and a $5-$10 stuffed animal or something small.

ETA: From looking at its other posts, it looks like it tailors the "P.S." to the thread it's in....wow, so glad it chose this thread to share that information in. blink.gif
doodlebug
Um, Ronia, did you actually READ any of the thread? Or any of the Lounge, for that matter?
girltrouble
nope. i watched her little posting spree. she did her 5 posts in about 3 minutes. just quick cut and paste and she was gone. this was a little publicity stunt.
i_am_jan
Hello, I am jan. Nice to meet you.

P.S. I HAVE HERPES.

laugh.gif laugh.gif
Christine Nectarine
QUOTE(pollystyrene @ Sep 19 2008, 12:25 PM) *
Anyhoo....I was talking to my co-workers (we're all childfree) about the birthday party. One of them has been invited to her husband's nephew's Christening; the problem is that it's a dual-Christening. They're doing it with the wife's sister's kid as well, with a party afterwards. So, now my co-worker is trying to figure out if it would be rude to not give a gift to her sister-in-law's sister's kid. Her husband's mom says they should get the kid something, but she really doesn't think she should. Gah, why do these breeders put us in these situations? I suggested she just the kid some token gift. One of those 99 cent cards from Hallmark and a $5-$10 stuffed animal or something small.


polly, i'd say the same to your co-worker: get them a card if you feel obliged as some sort of acknowledgement, but if they were expecting a gift grab, too bad.
i have a kid, but i get it, we're not all flush with cash to buy gifts for kids who have no idea what's going on anyway. especially when we could care less for the occasion. i get the same feeling when invited to a wedding shower.
i_am_jan
The whole party/present thing for an incoherent infant/toddler thing reeks of American excess. To me anyway, I'm sure it's much more fun for the parents.

The other thing that kinda irks me is the whole "buy yer infant a Motorhead/Ramones/AC/DC t-shirt." I'm sorry. But your kid doesn't like that band. YOU do.

What got me thinking about this was I went down to the local punky boutique to grab my friend a rock-n-roll t-shirt for his B-day. My man is a size 2X. so, they have absolutely no rock-n-roll t-shirts in my dude's size, or even XL. Yet, the entire side wall of the store is now stocked TO THE GILLS with infant/baby rock-n-roll t-shirts. C'mon man, they've got their own stores!, this is a buzzkill people. And a couple years ago, they carried 2X cuz I've bought him shirts there before but I guess now their inventory money is spent elsewhere.
pollystyrene
I know- I saw a kid who was about 7 or so wearing a CBGB's t-shirt yesterday. Wretch. My favorite was the adorable widdle 10-year old girl wearing the pink Ramones t-shirt with the rhinestones on it. There was nothing punk about this kid, or her mother, who was with her. Total soccer-mom who probably listened to Donny & Marie in the 70's...and 80's...and, okay, is still listening to them now.

Hey, they've got to grow with their demographic and their demographic is now having kids. dry.gif
thepointybird
Ok, I am seriously pissed off today as the screaming child upstairs from me started up at 4am this morning and was STILL going when I left for work at 7.45! And the parents appeared to be doing absolutely nothing. I need my sleep, I have a stressful job and I cannot function on 5 hours of sleep.....
humanist77
pointy, maybe try leaving an anonymous, polite (although I'm sure the parents would still read it as a vicious attack) note for them, if the screaming is still going on. If that doesn't work, just leave your music blasting while you're not home tongue.gif wait, should this go in the Bad Advice thread?

I just completed day 2 of a 4-day, very intense, comprehensive pre-natal massage certification course. I enjoy doing the bodywork, but just learning all about pregnancy and watching all the birthing videos are making me run, screaming, faster and louder from the thought of ever having children. Okay, I get it's beautiful, blah blah blah-but it's also terribly unpleasant, painful, disgusting and horrifying. There are a couple of pregnant women in the class, and I just can't believe that this class is not freaking them out.

And I think my teacher has enjoyed showing said videos during lunch time! :barf:

I have begun to worry that my animosity towards children is preventing me from engaging fully in this class. One girl in the class said in this sweet, annoying little voice, "I just think babies are precious gifts from God" :double barf:
sassy
Just came in to rant a little about my sister-in-law. She already has a 2-year-old that she leaves with my father-in-law all week, and a lot of the weekends, without asking most of the time. Completely takes them for granted and it pisses me off because they're too nice to say "no" to watching their grandson. She just had a baby girl a few weeks ago. At one week post-partum, she dropped the infant off at the father-in-laws so she could go out to dinner with her husband. That's fine and all but the baby did not know how to use a bottle yet. The in-laws had to find a syringe and fill it with breast milk and squirt it in the baby's mouth to get it to eat. If you can't watch your own kids (at least most of the time) and be respectful of the free daycare you get, STOP HAVING BABIES! Not to mention the fact that her husband does absolutely nothing to help. Frustrating because my in-laws are great people and I hate to see them taken advantage of so much. My husband asked his dad if his sister was having anymore babies and he said, "I hope not. Two is enough...at least it is for them."
auralpoison
Oh, cripes, do I know about that. There are twelve of us grandkids & the only ones that weren't foisted off on my grandparents regularly were the ones that lived out of state & me. It's sad, really. Up until I was trusted to stay at home by myself in first grade, I spent one night a week with my grandparents so my folks could have dinner, but my cousins were alwasy there. Even as an adult, the illegitimate thief/child molester one still came around. I have no idea how/why they let that little bag of scum stay with them. They'd go out of town & he'd "watch the house" which basically meant he & his skeevy little friends would roll blunts & drink forties the whole time they were gone.

There's a Chris Rock bit how if a baby calls his grandmama "mama" & his birth mama "Pam", something's got to give because there is a problem.
doodlebug
God, can you imagine raising kids, and then having to raise your grandkids too? Ugh, no thanks!

I met a new guy - okay, well, I met him a year ago. But anyway, he has 2 kids already (20 and 16), and he's had everything tied off. I was very happy to hear this! He told me before we'd even kissed - I smiled and replied, "Good to know...for future reference." biggrin.gif
sassy
Ack...and now I just got invited to the sister-in-law's son's 2nd birthday party. I hate that! If I go, I'm bored and waste my precious, precious free time. (I only have saturday and sunday off from work/school so I spend it doing as little activities that involve children as possible.) If I don't go, though, I get the guilt trip from everyone. It's not fair. Why do you think I want to see your kid open up presents and put his fingers in his cake?
humanist77
yo, EVA, no one cares about world of warcraft here.
thepointybird
Sigh. I've just discovered another one of my friends who was always sworn CBC is now expecting a baby (just spoke to him for the first time in a few months, his girlfriend is pregnant, and it was planned - she's been pestering him for a couple of years about it and he was always saying no until now). I'm happy for him, if that's what he wants, but I hate that it just gives ammo to those people who say "Oh, you'll change your mind when the right person comes along". I WON"T! Also, I'm kind of bugged about my friend's reason for deciding to go ahead with it - he was all like "Oh, I'm turning 30, and it's just life, isn't it?" I'm sorry, having kids just because that's what everyone else does is the worst fucking reason I can possibly think of!
nohope
Any guy who doesn't get a vasectomy is not Child Free By Choice.

I got mine three years ago and never look back. I can not imagine having a baby in this country.

I would be so fucked right now financially. I'd have no saving... debt up the wazzoo, and would never be able to buy a house.

As it is I have money in the bank and can put more and more into my saving s every month.

Being child free is an investment in the future.
missladyj
best birthcontrol evah? babysitting my niece. She is adorable but exhausting. Lucky me, I didn't have to change a diaper. but I did finally put her in her crib and close the door, she cried a little and then went to sleep. There are only so many times I can read peek a boo baby before i wanna bang my head against the wall. I tried reading her the tale of peter rabbit but she only wanted the same book over and over and over. at least we weren't watching tv. and after a couple of hours , I got to leave. being an auntie rules.
sassy
Thanksgiving is the best birth control ever! Kids everywhere doing things they aren't supposed to... tongue.gif
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