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thepointybird
QUOTE(designermedusa @ Mar 17 2009, 12:18 AM) *
Most of the people I hang out with don't have kids and never want them, but one friend is now in a relationship with a man that has a child. All she talks about is the child, and how she is now a mommy. The thing is before meeting this guy she never mentioned children, so it is strange.


That's interesting actually, I've actually got a policy whereby I will not get involved with a man who has children. Any other CBCers do that? I know a couple of you guys have mentioned stepchildren and the like, and more power to ya, but I'd rather just not go down that road at all. I generally tend to go for younger men though so it's never really been an issue, but I'm starting to be of an age now (34) where even men a fair bit younger than me may have already bred!
culturehandy
I've fucked men with children before, but beyond that, I will not get seriously involved with any man who has children.
sybarite
Honestly, if I was single, I wouldn't get involved with a guy who had a child/children. Both the kid/s and the kids' mom will be a part of your life, even if tangentially.
raisingirl
I appreciate your honesty, Syb. I feel like as I get older, it's going to be harder to avoid guys with kids... sigh.
girltrouble
QUOTE
I've fucked men with children before...

i swear, i've got bad brains, i read that and i read it thinking.... well let's just start out with the idea of pegging, then substitute the word 'dildo' with the word' children,' or closer to the mental image i got reading it, a child shaped dildo ... if that makes any sense...
missladyj
gt,
I like the way your mind works


So I went for my follow up IUD appointment and the nurse who was there was askin me if i was married and had any kids. which of course the answer is yes married, kids no. She always tells me i have time.


Yeah till 2014 bitch cuz I got an IUD now !!! W00t so stoked that i don't have to worry about bc till 2014 AWESOME
culturehandy
Jack Cafferty says your kids aren't that special.
period_monster
I love that article CultureHandy. This issue came up in one of the classes I taught yesterday: the indulgence of children by parents who could probably use a little time with a wooden spoon. Or maybe that was just my mom, but the woman had a look for in public, and all of her four children were little angels in public at least.
thepointybird
ARRRGGGHHHHHH! Just found out on Monday night that my crush boy has a 2 month old baby (he's not with the mother). Damnation. I was only hoping to turn him into a FWB kinda set up, as he's a lot younger than me and we have little in common, but i guess I'll have to look elsewhere now. F*cksticks....
pollystyrene
Here's something to induce gagging in you today.
culturehandy
Wow. At least that first family is using the resources in their own backyard.
pollystyrene
Did you see the part about the group that pays for people's vasectomy reversals if they want to join "the movement"? Maybe that's something that shouldn't be undone. Yikes.
culturehandy
I really don't think that it's god who decides how many babies you have, but a little something called ovulation.

Ugh, this kind of thing makes my head hurt. A lot.
girltrouble
aaaahhhhh! nothing like (extreme!tm) selective bible reading to come up with something stupidly, mindlessly destructive. the longer i live the more i see people's stupidity. cos lord knows the one thing this fucking planet hasn't got is ENOUGH FUCKING PEOPLE.

ARGH!

i'm gonna be pig biting mad all day now polly. grr. grr.
sassy
So my husband and I went to his vasectomy consultation today and it was so much easier than I thought it would be. When we got there, they had us watch a DVD about the procedure. This movie was hilarious, by the way. It was made in the '80s and the man in the video wore tiny shorts and his wife had big poofy hair. They also showed this computer version of the procedure and afterward they showed big band-aids on the scrotum...haha. After that, the urologist came in. He was pretty young --late 30s, early 40s-- so he didn't really give us any hassle about being young ourselves. He asked us how many kids we had, we said none, and he didn't really bother us anymore about it. My husband is planning on getting it done on a Friday in May and then taking it easy for a weekend. Then he has to have 15 ejaculations and have his semen tested for sperm. After that, we're good to go. Yay.
pollystyrene
I know, sassy- wasn't it amazing how easy it was? Nothing compared to the ration of shit i've heard they give women. The place LeBoy went to, you do the first test at 25 ejaculations and then a second one at four months (regardless of how many ejaculations)...I think (I know) we paid more that most for that, but we feel a lot better about doing it that way. Maybe you could ask if they could set you up with a second lab test? That is, if you're worried, which it sounds like you're not; sorry. I'm just projecting. Our doctor said he has clients that get tested every year, but he pointed out that if you wait a year in between tests, and there was a re-connection, you'd already be pregnant, if not already have a baby. He said it's so unlikely that there would be a re-connection, but if it makes you feel better....

We're FINALLY ready to do the first test, so we just need to find out where we're supposed to take the sample.
sassy
QUOTE(pollystyrene @ Mar 26 2009, 02:36 AM) *
I know, sassy- wasn't it amazing how easy it was? Nothing compared to the ration of shit i've heard they give women. The place LeBoy went to, you do the first test at 25 ejaculations and then a second one at four months (regardless of how many ejaculations)...I think (I know) we paid more that most for that, but we feel a lot better about doing it that way. Maybe you could ask if they could set you up with a second lab test? That is, if you're worried, which it sounds like you're not; sorry. I'm just projecting. Our doctor said he has clients that get tested every year, but he pointed out that if you wait a year in between tests, and there was a re-connection, you'd already be pregnant, if not already have a baby. He said it's so unlikely that there would be a re-connection, but if it makes you feel better....

We're FINALLY ready to do the first test, so we just need to find out where we're supposed to take the sample.


I didn't specify in my post, but he will have two tests done. The first is after 15 ejaculations and the second can be anytime after the first -- the doctor said whenever we want to bring by another sample. He said some people do require you wait four months, like you mentioned, but that there has been research done that indicates that if the first sample is sperm free, it is so rare that any subsequent samples would have any sperm in them. That being said, I will probably play it on the safe side and have him wait at least a few months in between samples and I will certainly use birth control during that time period. It would be horrible to get pregnant after he gets a vasectomy!

But yes, it was very easy. I do not think a woman would have it as easy, especially if she had not had any kids. The doctor thanked me for going with my husband to the appointment, but it wasn't required. I bet if I wanted to have the surgery on me, it would be required for my husband to go. dry.gif
pollystyrene
OMG, I want to send this to LeBoy's mom. laugh.gif

Check out the rest of the baby gifts on that site- hilarious!
sassy
Something at work today definately confirmed that the vasectomy is the right choice. I work at an animal hospital and this lady came to pick up her dog that had been boarding. The dog was a little Shih Tzu and was being all squirmy while I tried to put its collar on. The lady was holding a baby (probably 6-months old or so) and she said, "I can put the collar on if you hold my baby." I froze. I don't even think I know how to hold a baby. I said, "I would rather not. I would be scared to drop it or something." She looked kind of dissappointed that I didn't want to hold the kid...I hope I didn't offend her, but really, who asks a stranger to hold their young baby?? I finally got the collar on and I realized that I am way more comfortable with animals than babies and that the thought of holding that woman's baby did not at all tempt me to do so. tongue.gif

Polly: I like the little pee-pee tee-pees.
humanist77
sassy. that's exactly how I would've been too. I think I've held a baby once in my life (seriously). It was weird and uncomfortable and of course the child was screaming in seconds. I'm a natural at holding cats and making friends with dogs though.
humanist77
ah, thought ya'll might enjoy this. :D

love the background!!
pollystyrene
OMG, that's disturbing. I probably have pictures of friends from high school I could submit.
lanyo
my best (nearby) friend had a babby almost 2 years ago. i tried my hardest to talk her out of it, how it would ruin my life. heh. i was partly kidding. but really, the last part of her pregnancy, and the first 6 months the babby was around, were the worst. her monkey isn't terrible. i'd prefer no-kids ever, but it's tolerable.
really the worst part is since we're generally inseparable, at work and outside, everyone asks when i'm having babbies. hi, i'm not married, and have no intention to ever procreate. bleh.
they think it's because i'm not used to kids or something, but i'm secretly my friend's first place to go for answers. always have been for most of my breeding friends, i know way too much about pregnancy and child-rearing for it to be even remotely appealing.

also, the 2 times i've brought up tube-tying to different doctors, they've kinda looked at me funny and said i may change my mind later. as i wasn't insured or wealthy, i didn't push it. but wtf.
auralpoison
Babby? Babbies? Wha?

I dunno how old you are, Lanyo, but unless you are of a certain age/have already had kids, gynos give you shit about permanent BC. Men seem to be able to get the snip no questions asked, but women it's the third degree.
hellotampon
Tip: If you ever start feeling hormonal, like you might want to have kids someday, just watch Full House. One episode will do.
sassy
Haha...I watch Jon & Kate, Plus 8 to do that for me. tongue.gif
girltrouble
humanist, that site is a RIOT.

i love the cigarette/lit one...
sassy
So we've been waiting to schedule my husband's vasectomy and they finally called him, but they told us his insurance won't cover the procedure. It will probably cost around $700, which we're fine with paying. The weird thing is is that his insurance does cover a tubal ligation for women. Don't really understand that...
pollystyrene
That is weird, sassy- usually insurance companies are more willing to cover just about anything on men. I just heard a NPR story this week about how insurance companies charge higher premiums for women (not that that's news!) because of the huge costs of pregnancy & childbirth and, of course, they assume all women will want to experience that. And then the fact that we're more likely to go to the doctor at least once a year, and more than that if we think something's wrong. I think we should get discounts if our SO has been fixed!

Anyway, the good news is that they're trying to make it illegal for insurance companies to charge based on gender because they've made it illegal to to charge based on other factors that are out of the person's control, such as race. Of course, it will be even harder to get them to stop charging based on age.
candycane_girl
Okay, I'll admit that someday I will probably want to have kids but right now I'm 24 and the whole idea of having kids just seems like way too much to deal with. Here's what gets me. I have had people that I went to elementary and high school with add me on Facebook and they have not only one but two or three kids! And last fall one of my high school friends got married. Within a month she was like "guess what, I'm pregnant!" And she's expecting really soon. It might be presumptuous of me but if I get married I'd like to actually enjoy a few years of marriage without having to worry about kids.

I just don't understand it. These girls are the same age as me and they seem totally into being mothers. But you can't tell me that those kids were all planned. I'm not trying to be judgmental but c'mon, it's the 21st century. It is totally possible to have sex without getting pregnant!

Okay, that's the end of my rant. I figured that this was the best place to put it.

polly, that's very interesting about insurance. I just hate how presumptuous these companies can be.

humanist, that site is hilarious but also kind of sad. It just makes me think of the expression 'babies having babies'.
lanyo
yea, i'm 30, no kids, so of course it's assumed i'll want some someday. like they're beanie babies or something, "all your friends collect them, you can too!!!!!"
yikes!
i've always called them babbies. or parasites smile.gif only, people who don't know me well find the last offensive.
angie_21
That website is pretty scary.. The whole trend towards girls having babies so young (and on purpose!) makes me think that feminism is truly dead. What happened to wanting to have your own life, a career, school, freedom to travel? What about being able to choose your life partner after you've gone out with, and had sex with, more than one man in the world and can make an informed decision? What about being able to go to college and party your ass off (and not leaving a neglected baby at home to do it)? I'm 25 and still not near settling down in that way. Most girls I know having babies are 30 (and it still scares me!)

I don't know if it's cool to make fun of these girls tho... it's too close to the old stereotypes about pregnant teenagers and teenage sexuality being "bad." Many girls just don't have the access to knowledge about birth control that they should, and if they had an oopsie and made the decision to keep the baby on moral grounds or whatever, good for them for not being ashamed. It's easy to make stereotypes.. but I know more than one girl raising a baby "alone," and those babies have such loving and supportive grandparents that they will grow up in more supportive and funcational families than a lot of traditional families I know.
candycane_girl
angie, I think what gets me about those sites is that, mainly with the pics of groups of pregnant teen girls, is that they make it look like it's trendy and cool or something. I've even heard of things like teen girls all deciding to get pregnant together. It's ridiculous.

My boyfriend is actually the product of an unplanned teen pregnancy and his life hasn't been an easy one. He never knew his dad and his mom pretty much abandoned him. He's so lucky that his grandparents were able to raise him but they shouldn't have had to. I think that's what gets me. These young girls act like being pregnant is cool when in reality they'll probably get really stressed out once the baby actually arrives and lose interest.

I don't know how bad the sex ed situation is in the states but as a Canadian, I was given all the information I needed to make an informed decision about sex. I had sex in high school but I was damn sure to be careful and use protection because I didn't want to have to deal with an "accident".
sassy
I agree with everything you are saying, Candycane Girl. I'm also 24 and have many, many friends who are already on their 2nd (planned) baby. Most of the women got pregnant on their honeymoon. I think it is important to enjoy marriage and your spouse for a little bit before introducing a child, too. Some of these girls also dropped out of college in favor of having a baby. I'm not saying that being a mom can't be a career within itself, but I feel like some of my friends are selling themselves short by forgoing their education. And of course it will be much harder to go back to school when you have 2 or 3 kids. I just don't see what the rush is...your uterus will still be there at 25, 26, etc.

Also, as someone in the U.S., most schools do not teach about sex. They teach abstinence only which usually results in more pregnancies. Luckily I had a very detailed lesson on safe sex from my mom at a young age.
missladyj
don't get me started on the state of sex ed in America. It is truly horrible. There are many states who have laws that require teachers to teach Abstinence only which includes misinformation about the effectiveness of condoms. I had a student the other day say he was scared of STDs . I said use a condom everytime y ou have sex . My students giggled but if their health teacher is trying to scare the shit out of them so they don't have sex I figure its valuable class time for me to promote using condoms. my students think I'm a weirdo but I feel it's important information.


On another note has anyone seen the commericals for the new Bob Saget show Surviving Suburbia? It's all about how he hates being a father and living in suburbia. It normalizes the whole marriage , kids, suburbia and being unhappy. Why is that considered normal? I don't get it and find it really disturbing. I will be going on 9 yrs of blissful childfree marriage and now with my IUD in place I don't have to worry ! Yee Haw!!
candycane_girl
I'll be honest, I can't remember everything that I learned in sex ed but we were taught a lot. First it was just the basic parts of male and female anatomy. There were stats about birth control in terms of most effective and least effective methods and we were tested extensively on STDs. I'm kind of embarrassed that I can't remember all of the facts but it was 10 years ago.

Oh, also we were shown full colour photos of people with various STDs. I can't imagine any teenager seeing those pics and wanting to have sex right away.
angie_21
I agree entirely that it is scary that having babies seems to be cooler and more important than having a life of your own for a lot of the girls out there right now. Another thing that really made me mad was a girl I went to grad school with. We were talking about careers after school and how our degree isn't very helpful for getting jobs, and she said, "well, I'm really only kinda doing this to have the letters after my name, and after this I'll be having kids and staying at home anyways." Oh. Well then.

But, I do think there is a huuuuuge difference between what we learn in Canada for sex ed, and what is taught in the US, and I think it has a pretty big effect on teenage pregnancy. Honestly, by grade 7 I never wanted to see another diagram of a penis again! As much as I hated it, it is so much better than the restrictive system down south. I don't know if this is still the case, but the government used to take away funding from schools that taught anything but abstinence. if you're taught that condoms don't really work, why spend the money (and risk getting caught at the drugstore buying them) to use them at all? And if you're taught that the best thing to do is be a good traditional girl, and wait until marriage, and that the only point of having sex is to make babies... I don't think any of these things will help girls be sexually or personally independent.
girltrouble
QUOTE
Oh, also we were shown full colour photos of people with various STDs. I can't imagine any teenager seeing those pics and wanting to have sex right away.

that's if they believe what they are being told. i dunno, i never much trusted the stuff the teachers were saying. you hear the lies they teach about history and things you do know about like drug use, and you start taking it all with a huge grain of salt. that's the problem with the whole abstinence thing. when you tell kids all sex is bad, they know that's not true. i was a fundementalist xtian, and i knew they were full of it. i don't blame the teachers, their hands, most of the time, are tied.
pollystyrene
I went to a bridal shower today for humanist's bff. One of the ever-so-fun bridal shower activities they did was to pass around index cards for everyone to write advice or something on for the couple. I wrote "Don't go to bed mad. Stay up and fight!", which is a Phyllis Diller quote. After everyone had done it, they got passed around for everyone to read and I was quite pleased to see that someone wrote something like, "Having kids as soon as possible seems like fun and a good idea now, but give yourselves time to develop your relationship, travel and SLEEP!"

I know they're planning on having kids. The last time I was at their house, I mentioned LeBoy's vasectomy and the boyfriend was just shocked that we'd do that...."you don't want kids? Ever? Wow, I can't wait to have kids." rolleyes.gif Hopefully they'll listen to the advice.

girltrouble
i don't get that having kids right away thing either--but then, i don't ever want kids so, go figure. yesterday i hung out with mr.t, because her family is kinda my adopted family, and it was someone's birthday. i was so happy to see some of mr.t's grand kids (her daughter was adopted when she was 21), that i got all weepy. i love the grand kids but that's cos i see them maybe once every 3 mos or so.

the only way i'd want kids is if i saw them twice a month max. i know it sounds fucked up, but i grew up with a large extended fam, and my sister and i were the middle cousins, so we ended up doing tons of baby sitting. i just really don't see the point in kids. when you have them most of the time you wish you didn't. plus my sister got preggers in high school and now has three of her own. kid wise, she's doing all my heavy lifting...(thank god).

btw, great quote polly. just priceless.
stargazer
QUOTE(angie_21 @ Apr 5 2009, 10:11 PM) *
We were talking about careers after school and how our degree isn't very helpful for getting jobs, and she said, "well, I'm really only kinda doing this to have the letters after my name, and after this I'll be having kids and staying at home anyways." Oh. Well then.


I wrote a little rant about the degree/education and staying home thing in the letters thread. It is definitely about status. Still confusing for me too, but, eh, it's their choice.
raisingirl
I really don't like Oprah and her cult of personality, but I'm watching it today -- it's about the "secret lives of moms" -- and thinking THANK GOODNESS I DON'T HAVE KIDS. I seriously feel so fortunate. Oh, what's the secret: you are not happy as a mother? Your life will never be the same as it was before you had kids? Did any of you see today's show? I'm only 10 minutes into it and haven't vomited yet! wink.gif
pollystyrene
I'm taping it when they replay it late tonight. I'm only watching it for Dooce (Heather Armstrong), though.
stargazer
polly, they didn't show heather for a long time. she was part of many moms they talked to on the show.

raisin, i was definitely glad not to have kids while watching that show.

though, i will say that i liked the premise of the show. basically, the women on the show said that we women have created this unrealistic expectation of what being a mom means and not being given room to vent about not liking being a mom. like they have to suffer for their choice by constantly saying how happy they are. basically, motherhood is creating your own vision of what and how motherhood is for you. of course, i'm sure there will be backlash for these women speaking up. oh the mommy wars!
raisingirl
If I heard correctly (I was shuffling through papers at the time), that Dooce chick makes $40,000 A MONTH in ad sales from her website. Jesus.

The whole hour was very good birth control for me, but I could have done without learning that one of the mothers peed on a diaper in the car because she had to go just that badly and didn't want to stop and wake the sleeping kids in the car (does that mean she did this WHILE DRIVING?!). Did I really need to know that?
angie_21
Wow, glad I didn't watch that, it sounds terrifying!

The whole having kids early idea seems to me kind of like people are "getting it over with" or something. Have kids early, get them out of the house in time to retire so you can travel. I am scared of things like this determining my life. Mortgage, RRSP, kids, retirement, pension - these things help me to decide to go back for useless degree #3. At least I like what I do at school.

I know why people have kids though, when I go to family reunions and see how happy the grandparents are to be surrounded by their kids and grandkids. Family is a big deal. But I am not ready to sacrifice myself for an ideal that doesn't seem to exist in reality. I love my bf, but I know who would change the diapers and discipline the kids.
pollystyrene
Just watched Oprah...pretty boring, overall, but the one thing I did find annoying was when Oprah was interviewing the first moms, the two friends who write the books, and they're griping about getting everything done, and Oprah says, "What you need is a wife [to get it all done]!"....um, way to completely excuse men! I don't assume every family has two heterosexual parents, but to wish for another woman, because that's what a wife would do, is kind of offensive.

Yeah, it's $40K/month....I don't feel so bad about not buying a Chuck calendar anymore.

candycane_girl
So, speaking of kids has anyone noticed the banner ad here for some "Cute Kid of the Year" contest? Wtf?
girltrouble
candy, after i saw the anne coulter ad, nothing phases me. although if they posted girls gone wild ads, i think i might be a little WTF, but only a little blink.gif .


i watched a little of the oprah show, out of curiosity from posts in this thread. i kinda felt sorry for the woman who said that her vagina was an out only door, just for birthing children. i wanted to say, really? so you are nothing but a baby factory. that's just sad.
sybarite
All the exclusive focus on moms enrages me; way to exclude the father from both responsibility and full participation. The eclipsing of fathers just reinforces the idea that they are somehow peripheral to their children's lives and upbringing.

Basically when I hear of anything mom-based, I get annoyed on (at least) two counts: because the dads are getting shut out and because mom-discourse is ubiquituous. Random parent dilemnas don't interest me, and that goes triple for middle class mom-whining.
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