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girltrouble
i'll be honest, i laugh every time a couple signs up to do a reality show. i think the osbornes are the only couple to survive that shit. everybody else breaks up. i don't care if you are super sane or batshit crazy, they all end up fucked up.

as for j+k+8, i've hated them since day one. it's that whole babyhypnosis thing.

and now it looks like octomom has inked her very own series....ugh...
missladyj
prettynpink,
I couldn't agree more!
turbojenn
Y'all know that the infertility industry is a HUGE issue for me. I worked at an adoption agency for 7 years, and we tried very hard to lobby for some ethical regulation for the industry - I mean, if you've already got twins, you've had very good success with IVF, and a doc should NOT be implanting multiple embyros - no matter what the client wants!! I also can't even tell you how many couples would come to the agency I worked for after 5-10 years of infertility and spending $10-100K on treatments, and then complain about the adoption fees, or the wait, or the lengthy process...the entitlement was sometimes galling. And so many of the couples seemed so unhappy, and disconnected from their partners, I felt so sad for them that their lives had been focused on this one thing, and everything else seemed bleak in light of the one fact of not having a child. Often, we'd have to send families to counseling for a few months to really get over their grief of losing their ideal of a biological child before we'd work with them. You have to really WANT to adopt to make it through the process and then really be ready to parent. (As a sidenote on the physical-emotional connection, we always joked that the best thing to improve your chances of getting preggo is to start the adoption process - we had a 10-15% pregnancy rate among prospective adoptive parents, once they felt the hope/possibility of parenting was real for them again).

And then there's the issue that everyone wants to adopt a newborn infant. There are 120,000 older children available for adoption in the US *right now.* If turbomann and I ever did decide to have kids, we'd definitely adopt an older, waiting child...it's a hard road in different ways, and so many families are needed. Anyway, that's my rant.

culturehandy
A baby isn't a shirt that you can return if you don't like it.
p_176
<delurks> as someone who is adopted, i'm pretty set against IVF. i don't understand the "need" to pass on your genes to biological children, and frankly i think it's a little racist - like you HAVE to have a kid that looks like you - and there are tons of children who need families to adopt them. having said that, my guy and i will probably one day have children. he knows that i have PCOS so i might have a hard time getting pregnant, and he's wiling to adopt.

a family member said to me recently that she thought i would be pregnant within a year (not married and pregnant, just pregnant), and got annoyed with me when i said, no i have to lose weight, lower my blood sugar and make sure the PCOS is in as line as possible before thinking about getting pregnant. since this family member is more overweight than i am, and had an ok pregnancy (luckily for her - since she had gestational diabetes [which predisposes you for type II diabetes but she's not been checked, and is currently having gallbladder issues due to the weight....but she won't lose weight.....). oh well. i don't particularly want children right now, but if and when my guy and i have them, it will be as planned out as possible. like CH says, it's not a shirt you can take back if you change your mind, and you have to make sure to be as ready as possible. then there's no bitching about how your life changed.

PCOS takes to me to Jon and Kate plus 8. Kate, according to their website, has PCOS. there is no indication they even discussed adoption, or other ways to promote her fertility naturally (like lowering her blood sugar, if that's a factor in her infertility) - no it just seems like she found out she had PCOS, and immediately chose IVF without considering other alternatives. watching their show is like watching a train wreck. i admire them for their patience with their kids. but, no matter if you believe Jon is cheating on her, I think their personal relationship is wrecked. In the snippets where J&K are interviewed together, you don't see the love and closeness, despite all they've been through together.

getting pregnant when you know you [the mother] has health issues is just dumb and egotistical. if you endanger your own health, you won't be there for the kids you so wanted to have in the first place. i know of a couple who adopted a few kids, then ended up getting (unexpectedly) pregnant. despite the health risk for the mother, she (and husband) decided to not terminate the pregnancy. the mother died in childbirth, leaving the dad with 4 kids.

as for oprah and anything said on her show, i despite oprah, and i put absolutely no stock in anything she says.
prophecy_grrl
I'm not unsympathetic to people's desire for biological children - sure it's motivated by selfish and egotistical desires, but many of our life choices are. What galls me is pursuing it at any cost (including the woman's health and even life - WTF?) and the complete disregard for adoption as a possibility. Surrogacy is even more infuriating - did anyone see that Oprah episode (damn, she's ubiquitous!) about "renting" wombs of poor women in India? So exploitative. The women had no awareness of how problematic is was, just "I desperately want my own baby."

The woman I know who's been trying to get pregnant has *just* started the most basic ART (hormone shots), but I have no doubt that they'll pursue IVF if necessary. She is so miserable and unhappy and is constantly lashing out at people. I fell like telling her, we're not the ones judging your worth on your ability to procreate!

BTW, this cracked me up

QUOTE(prettynpink @ Jun 2 2009, 10:20 AM) *
I understand the need to show the new thing off, because thats how I feel about my new shoes, and those didnt come out of my vagina.


laugh.gif
girltrouble
that's the thing that kills me about J+K+8, ps. it's seemed obvious to me for a while there is no love there, just a fuck ton of resentment on both sides.
culturehandy
I've never seen the show, my mother has, and she said, and I quote, he talks to her like she is a slug in the sun.

Isn't he the biggest asshole to her?
candycane_girl
I've never sat through an entire episode, CH, but when they have the interviews, to me it was always the other way around. I mean, she once got on his case for breathing too loudly! Seriously. He just seems so depressed and she harps on about the most ridiculous things and belittles him so much. It's really depressing to watch.
pollystyrene
Yeah, I'd say it's definitely the other way around, CH. Did anyone see that clip on The Soup a few weeks ago when the two of them were doing one of the side interviews and she was bitching about something and he was just totally dead-eyed and detached. They inserted his "thoughts" and basically it was just ways he could kill himself to get out of there.
auralpoison
Oh, Kate's just a bitch! She's on him about *every* *little* *thing*. I think after she had all those babies they packed her womb with salt & now she's just mad all the time.
missladyj
I saw an episode when she slapped his face after he said something.Who does that to their husband on camera???!! She is a total bitch. I almost feel sorry for the poor guy but he picked her crazy ass.

I can't wait for the day when Maddy Goesslin writes and publishes her book about the whole experience. I think it should be called " Growing Up Goesslin". Now I have to think of a catch phrase for Kate. I don't see how anyone can top "NO WIRE HANGERS!!" but my gut tells me that somehow Kate will find a way.
culturehandy
oops, my bad, I just asked momzilla again, you all are indeed correct.

My bad. laugh.gif
girltrouble
i was gonna say....

i saw that episode of the soup, and it was hilarious. i never saw the "confessional" parts before that, and i was amazed at his patience. the dude is a saint. i'da killed her.
thepointybird
Oh my god Humanist,. I almost wet myself at that!
raisingirl
Do you ever feel that you are REALLY GRATEFUL and fortunate to not have children? I have been feeling that way and I know I wouldn't be able to do certain things with my life if I had little ones right now. I also realized that I'm old enough to be the mother of a teenager, but I'm so glad I'm not. SO glad.
sybarite
Wordy mcword to that raisin.
pollystyrene
QUOTE(raisingirl @ Jun 10 2009, 06:42 AM) *
Do you ever feel that you are REALLY GRATEFUL and fortunate to not have children? I have been feeling that way and I know I wouldn't be able to do certain things with my life if I had little ones right now. I also realized that I'm old enough to be the mother of a teenager, but I'm so glad I'm not. SO glad.


All the time, raisin. When I see kids screaming in the grocery store, when I see sullen teenagers being obnoxious to their parents, when I see LeSister negotiating with her three-year-old to eat a bite of food; last time we were at her house, it took 45 minutes to get the little monster to eat a bite of pizza. I sat there in disbelief, thinking, "I wouldn't negotiate with terrorists."

LeBoy and I saw Up over the weekend and we made the mistake of going to a matinee on a Sunday. We thought by going to the earliest show we might luck out....oh, no- lots of kids; the family next to us had two little shits who wouldn't sit down and shut up. One of them kept telling her dad where to sit (OMG, if I ever tried that!) About three-quarters of the way through the movie, they had to get up and leave because they couldn't control them. LeBoy and I decided that the point of the movie was that kids and dogs ruin everything (yeah, I know, twisted logic- the kid ends up saving the day by the end of the movie; no, that's not a spoiler.)
stargazer
QUOTE(raisingirl @ Jun 10 2009, 06:42 AM) *
Do you ever feel that you are REALLY GRATEFUL and fortunate to not have children? I have been feeling that way and I know I wouldn't be able to do certain things with my life if I had little ones right now. I also realized that I'm old enough to be the mother of a teenager, but I'm so glad I'm not. SO glad.


Amen Raisin!

Polly, I think a kids behavior is more reflective of the parents sometimes. I went to a matinee showing of UP with a theater full of kids and everyone was well-behaved. If I acted up in public as a kid, I got the pinch under the arm-pull close-talk through the teeth-staredown by my mom. I pulled my act together quickly. wink.gif
auralpoison
QUOTE(raisingirl @ Jun 10 2009, 07:42 AM) *
Do you ever feel that you are REALLY GRATEFUL and fortunate to not have children? I have been feeling that way and I know I wouldn't be able to do certain things with my life if I had little ones right now. I also realized that I'm old enough to be the mother of a teenager, but I'm so glad I'm not. SO glad.


Dear cod, yes! My friend here is my age & has a thirteen-year-old & fifteen-year-old. In the past few months, the fifteen-year-old has run away several times & the thirteen-year-old recently decided to drink so much Captain Morgan's so as to require immediate hospitalisation due to alcohol poisoning. To the tune of $3000. Yeah. Glad I didn't start popping 'em out at eighteen like she did.
culturehandy
HA! I do not negotiate with terrorists!!!

I'm also so happy and think the same thing. I take the bus to work right now, and when I see someone with children get on, not only do I feel bad for the parent for having to haul kids around on a bus, if the kid screams, I'm done. at least in a car I didn't have to put up with that shit, yo.
flanker_ji
Yes, I've been grateful that I don't have children for years now, especially now I'm dating a father of two. They might be my responsiblity too someday soon, so I'm relishing the fact that right now, it isn't me that has to negotiate how many bites of dinner before dessert. I don't constantly have to remind them how to behave in public and how to avoid injury... and having the freedom to worry only about myself and what I want is so damn sweet.
pollystyrene
QUOTE(stargazer @ Jun 10 2009, 08:35 AM) *
Amen Raisin!

Polly, I think a kids behavior is more reflective of the parents sometimes. I went to a matinee showing of UP with a theater full of kids and everyone was well-behaved. If I acted up in public as a kid, I got the pinch under the arm-pull close-talk through the teeth-staredown by my mom. I pulled my act together quickly. wink.gif


Oh, hells yeah. Humanist was the screamer and if she started it in public, like in the grocery store, my dad would just clap his hand over her mouth and keep it there until she stopped or until he gave up and took her out to the car....even if it got to that point, there was no physical discipline, but we were removed from the situation until we calmed down. But restaurants, movies*, museums, etc- they were really good about keeping us in line.

Cod, that dinner with LeSister; first it was "eat your pizza because I'm not making you anything else, but you're going to sit here at the table with the rest of us while we eat." Then it was, "eat your pizza or you're not getting a cupcake afterwards." Then it was, "eat three bites and if you don't like it, I'll make you chicken nuggets. [which is basically what that kid lives on!]" Then it was, "if I let you eat in front of the TV with your train DVD on, will you eat three bites?" He ended up in front of the TV, finally tried the pizza and liked it, but jeebus, the effort that went into getting him to that point blink.gif

My parents never made a separate meal for my sister and I. Maybe, if it was something we really didn't like, we'd get a bowl of cereal instead, but that was it. I have so many friends/family with kids who make a separate, usually something processed and fast, for their kids rather than force them to eat the same thing they're eating. I can hardly handle having to avoid putting mushrooms in stuff I make for LeBoy- I don't think I could handle it if I had a kid who was that picky.

*When your dad was the one who'd mortify you in the theater by yelling at other people to shut up, you certainly don't open your mouth- the only thing he enjoyed more than telling other people to shut up was telling his own kids to shut up.
flanker_ji
Yeah, my tastes in food definitely aren't kid-friendly (I want lots of flavor and spice, please!). I'm thankful I've spent a couple of summers working in a summer camp kitchen, otherwise making dinner with these boys in mind would totally stress me out 'cause I'm a perfectionist to some degree.
prophecy_grrl
Oh, hell yes I feel grateful.

I definitely had one of those "I love being childfree" weekends. We went to a concert on Friday night and then had some loose plans Saturday that fell through, so after running our errands in the morning we ended up just laying around all day - napping, watching movies, having sex, eating (rinse and repeat!). We slept in on Sunday and made a tasty kid-unfriendly breakfast (wild shroom and goat cheese omelets) and I stayed in my pj's until about 3pm. It was awesome. The thing is, even without kids, those kind of weekends are rare for us. Just the standard shopping/chores/family/social obligations get in the way, I can't imagine adding kids to that.

Oh, the food thing drives me crazy too! I have never been a picky eater and it was something that was never tolerated in my house growing up, so it's something I have zero tolerance for in kids. SIL and BIL are the same way with their kids, polly - cooking separate crappy meals for the kids. Mechanically separated chicken nuggets? blech. If I wouldn't eat it myself, I'm not feeding it to my kid. Plus, I think that catering to their whims like that is precisely what makes them picky eaters.

Honestly, my biggest issue with kids is that I want them to act like adults. I have no tolerance for whining, temper tantrums, crapping in pants. I want to be able to say - "suck it up and deal!" and "go fix your own breakfast while I sleep!" It's why I'm one of those rare people that actually prefers teens as an age group. I have 2 sisters who are considerably younger than me and who I sorta helped raise; both are teenagers now, and I think it's the best age group. I even find the angst and drama cute. I just relate to them better.
humanist77
mmmm goat cheese omelets *drooling*
Those have been some of my favorite days with the boy (favorite days ever, really)-the rare day that we both have off-all day is spent sleeping, fucking, cooking, eating, smoking, listening to music and talking endlessly. Our bonding days, the ones we never forget. In fact, this coming Friday will be one of those. Have to go get some goat cheese :D

Dear lord, it would never happen with kids.

When I first met the boy, I asked about kids, and he said it's something he thinks he wants someday. We've talked about it a lot since then-I don't know if he thought about it much before meeting me, and he's now at "I know I can still be happy with my life without them, and there's definitely too much I want to do which children would get in the way of." I know he likes kids, so if all goes well with us, he'll make a good "uncle" to my BFF's kids someday.

prophecy, I usually even feel awkward around teenagers. Hell, even some of the college students who are my massage clients have a childishness. I think in some way it's because I was a teenager merely six years ago, and so much has changed since then, but it still reminds me too closely of what I 'used' to be like. Maybe it's people-especially college students-who are dependent on their parents who bother me-those that have a guaranteed safety net if they fuck up. I'm just bitter w/ college students like that because I didn't get my parent's financial support with school, and I ended up having to drop out because it was too expensive.

Then there's my ex, who in his latest attempt to finish his bachelor's degree, his well-off parents gave him a free ride for over 2 years (paying his rent, food, cellphone, utilities, cable & internet, medications, car payments, even recreational cash, and after I moved out, my part of the rent too), and towards the end he squandered what most people can only dream off having, and ended up dropping out (again). Now that's just his various neuroses getting the best of him, but seriously-he was 2 weeks from graduation when he dropped out. Holy shit, if he alone is not a case against having children, I don't know what is...
girltrouble
QUOTE
LeBoy and I decided that the point of the movie was that kids and dogs ruin everything


hey, don't blame the dogs.
thirteen
It is marvellous to read posts by like-minded people, wow! Most parents out there are deeply selfish, I think-- "I want a mini version of me to dress up like a doll!" Yet a lot of them do not even seem to like their children, once they arrive, and bitch about them constantly. The way things are going in the world makes it even more greedy to have children. Can you say "overpopulation"? Then the reality shows about enormous families absolutely make me feel nauseated. Children deserve respect, love and stability. Why is it seen as bad to stay child-free if you cannot give them stability? This really should be praised as a responsible decision.

Anyway...........prophecy_grrl-- Your week-end sounds like it was amazing! Jeez. smile.gif

That is exactly what I love about being child-free-- the independence. You can sleep in, eat what you want to when you want to, have your fella (or lady) over, go on holiday without having to drag a fussy child along...and you save untold amounts of money.

It is painfully obvious that a lot of parents are simply jealous of women who have that kind of freedom. So many psychos have tried to convince me to have kids. My mom annoys the shit out of me by repeating, "Never say never" whilst smirking, & it takes all my self-control to not yell at her. A lot of moms are trapped and miserable-- and misery loves company, of course. It almost makes me feel bad for them-- but I just wish more people would get to know their own minds, their own wishes, and THINK before getting knocked up.
pollystyrene
QUOTE(humanist77 @ Jun 10 2009, 12:38 PM) *
...and ended up dropping out (again). Now that's just his various neuroses getting the best of him, but seriously-he was 2 weeks from graduation when he dropped out.


Are you fucking serious? blink.gif

humanist77
read it and weep~

I sure can pick'em!

However...
My boy right now has been living on his own (in a different state from the 'rents, no less), going to school, and hasn't seen a dime from his parents in at least 6 years. He received his bachelor's degree in music about 3 weeks ago, on the same day the ex also would've graduated. Oh, and he's 2 years younger than him. Aaaaand he works full time. And last week he just started nursing school. At least I improve with each one-just think of where I was two boys ago!

ETA- and his 5 year plan? med school. yep. major improvement.
stargazer
QUOTE(humanist77 @ Jun 10 2009, 12:38 PM) *
Now that's just his various neuroses getting the best of him, but seriously-he was 2 weeks from graduation when he dropped out. Holy shit, if he alone is not a case against having children, I don't know what is...


Whoa. What a fool. Major improvement for you in the boy area with the new boy. Wow. I'm still in shock with that amount of stupidity of the ex. What was his reason? Besides obviously not wanting to grow up. I'm sure Polly will have a more seasoned response. wink.gif

Btw, keep the goat cheese away from Polly! She doesn't like the stuff.

QUOTE(thirteen @ Jun 10 2009, 12:53 PM) *
Children deserve respect, love and stability. Why is it seen as bad to stay child-free if you cannot give them stability? This really should be praised as a responsible decision.


I agree with you, Thirteen. I was happy to hear my godmother's daughter and her husband decided to hold off on a 2nd child for a couple of years as a result of wanting to build some more stability, both financially and home wise (they are relocating). It was refreshing to hear a couple make a conscious decision about having children. I think my mom has this belief, rather romantic, that you should just have kids 'cause you can have 'em. Makes me think when I was 28, single, and still in doc school that she was encouraging me to have a kid. It was really cause she wanted to be a grandma. Pfft.
angie_21
I am lucky that the parents and in-laws are completely ambivalent about one day having grandchildren. The boyfriend wants kids one day, probably, maybe, but has already been told that if I never want to, we never will. Most days, I am also grateful that I don't have them. Screaming kids in the store, at the movies, in restaurants, in parks, everywhere make me more determined to avoid procreating at all costs. Then I think of all the money involved, all the car rides to events, friends' houses, school fees, etc. Even worse, I don't know if I could handle the stress of worrying all the time, for the rest of my life, whether the kids are OK, are they in trouble, have they been hit by a drunk driver, are they drunk driving, are they failing school, have they been kidnapped on the way home from school? How do parents survive that kind of stuff?

I love reaing this thread just because I giggle every time I read the word "crotch fruit." hee hee
humanist77
QUOTE(stargazer @ Jun 10 2009, 01:41 PM) *
Whoa. What a fool. Major improvement for you in the boy area with the new boy. Wow. I'm still in shock with that amount of stupidity of the ex. What was his reason? Besides obviously not wanting to grow up. I'm sure Polly will have a more seasoned response. wink.gif


ugh, well on the off chance that the ex still reads my Bust posts, I have to give more fair explanation, although I don't mean to be any less hard on him. He's bipolar. He's been on meds for a long time, but after the break up, he went into an unwavering manic state that got worse and worse and lasted for months. He's too proud and stubborn (Taurus) to ask for help, so he let it go, let his grades drop, and being an all around self-pitying, reckless dumbass. He stopped going to class, and when he realized that it would probably be impossible to get his grades up in time to graduate, he dropped out.

After that all happened, he started getting introspective and making his atonements-first person was me! He said this manic state started before we even broke up, and it might have caused some of our issues. Ah, whatever. It's all over and done with, there were so many other issues outside of his behavior alone that would eventually killed the relationship. But yeah-I don't want to even think of all the money his parents have put into his failed education. I REALLY hope he doesn't read this because he's currently not in any state to read these things, but I'm also not going to censor myself, as Bust is my space. I know it's open to everyone, but it's his choice to snoop.


QUOTE(stargazer @ Jun 10 2009, 01:41 PM) *
Btw, keep the goat cheese away from Polly! She doesn't like the stuff.


No problemo! More for me biggrin.gif biggrin.gif biggrin.gif
humanist77
did anyone else see this on the Bust blog today?
candycane_girl
I just want to pipe up on the kids and food issue. First off, in my house we almost never had dessert so there was no "reward" for finishing your dinner. Anyway, when it comes to food I believe that kids should be treated just like dogs. You put the food out. Maybe they'll ignore it for a while. But once they are hungry enough, they will damn well eat it. Seriously, in our house it was simply eat what's given to you or starve. Your choice.

Also, when it came to acting up in public my mom just had to say one thing. She would glare at me and ask, "Do you want me to have to spank you so that all these people can see what a bad kid you are?" That worked through two ways. 1. I didn't want to be spanked and 2. I didn't want people to see me get spanked.

I think it's a bit sad when you see parents, especially mothers, who just feel trapped by their kids. My mom has always told us that she really wanted to have kids and that she was so glad to have us. It sounds cheesy but it makes a difference when you don't feel like some big unwanted burden.
hellotampon
We had to eat or go hungry too. I don't see what the point is in forcing a kid to eat pizza, of all things. It's not even good for you.
I was also spanked as a child, but not in front of people. My mother would threaten to "take me to the bathroom" and that was enough. I knew what that meant.
candycane_girl
Ah yes, I should have added that while I technically was spanked, I think it happened maybe three times in my life. It was always the threat of getting spanked that shut me up. For the few times I was spanked, it definitely wasn't for acting up in a store.
crazyoldcatlady
i parked in a "reserved for families with infants" parking spot today out of spite. then proceeded to give dirty looks to mothers in the stores whose kids were screaming, "i want scooooooooooby snaaaaaaaaaaacks!"

status-post hangover, i have zero tolerance today.

eta: your baby is an asshole
raisingirl
I love that so many of you have felt the same way. I think on the subject of gratefulness, it's only just recently that I'm feeling that way and truly appreciating my blessings of not having children. I think before I used to take it for granted. Now? Not so much.

COCL, what is with those designated parking spaces? I love that you did that. It's not like the store can issue you a ticket for that offense!
girltrouble
um... cat lady... you are totally my idol. that is just lovely. LOVELY.

i was a latchkey for the most part, so i ate when i ate, but when my mom cooked, we ate what we were given, period.

but i'm in favor of spanking. big time. i dislike ill behaved children. there is just no excuse for it.

i was spanked, by one of three ways: hand, belt or 'switch' depending on the adult supervising. but kids in my family are all super well behaved. my family had the threats down pat:
1) i was told ahead of time that if i didn't behave when in public, i would be left behind the next time.
2) i would get one warning 'on site.'
3) after that i was sent to the car.
4) when we got home i would get a spanking + a serious lecture
5) and would have to hear about how my relation got everything they wanted then next time they went out for dinner or whatever, just to prove a point.

at home w/ guests the rules were:
1)1 warning (either a look or a comment)
2) put in a separated in a room
3)after the guest left we got a serious spanking that you would not forget.

if it was just family, whoever felt like a kid was acting up could discipline a kid, no questions asked. so when i was older i would babysit kids who's mom had married into our family. they were brats. in three months, their tune changed around our family. they became very polite....atleast at family functions. for all the bratty behavior children have, i've never known a child who didn't learn their lesson by the third time they had to 'pick a switch.' and my family had very little patience for the show that children use to get their way. children who cried to get out of spankings got viciously mocked, and their punishment doubled, tripled and quadrupled. 'do you really want something to cry about?' was a family mantra for the uninformed. but we were veeeeery well behaved children.
unicorn
this is great! people with the same interests: that is no interest in kids.
everyone says the day will come that i too would want to have children and be like everyone else. well have i got news for you.... the more i think about kids the more irritating they become to me. usually i was able to ignore the sreaming, crying and everything else that's annoying about them, but nowadays i have to supress the feeling of shouting 'shut the fuck up!' out loud.
pollystyrene
Hi unicorn!

Really great article from Salon.
angie_21
QUOTE(unicorn @ Jun 15 2009, 02:04 PM) *
the more i think about kids the more irritating they become to me. usually i was able to ignore the sreaming, crying and everything else that's annoying about them, but nowadays i have to supress the feeling of shouting 'shut the fuck up!' out loud.


I hate hate hate when people bring their loud, bratty kids to restaurants. I know it's only a Tony Romas and I'm not expecting fine dining, but when your kid is running up and down the rows of tables, or screetching at the top of his voice, or banging his utensils together, isn't this a greeat time teo teach him about manners in puiblic? Consideration for other people? If you want to bring your kids out and let them run amok, go to McDonalds and throw them in the Playplace like the irresponsible asshole you really are. Grr.

Also, why does the restaurant never ask these people to be quieter? I spend a lot more in alcohol at their restaurant than their little brats spend on the kids menu.. or I would have, if I wasn't leaving as soon as I finish my appetizer because I can't stand the brats' screaming!

We were very rarely spanked, but if we acted up, my mom would say, "fine, I'm leaving" and turn around and walk out of the store without looking back. She never made it all the way to the car without us eventually running after her, because she never once gave in and turned around.
raisingirl
I disagree that a restaurant is a good place to teach kids about manners. It needs to start at home and on the playground and at the homes of friends/family.

Not that this is news or anything, but I get the sense that a whole generation of parents are raising their kids without ever saying no to them or setting limits. It bugs the shit out of me.
stargazer
Hipster Douchebag baby said he wanted this crib. You better get on it, GT and AP.
candycane_girl
angie, I definitely think that if people are going to take their children out to a restaurant they should be ready to discipline them. There is no way in hell that my parents would have let me and my brother run around and scream in a restaurant. I know there is one story about my brother behaving badly at a sit down restaurant. He kept making gagging noises for no reason so finally my dad took him out to the car so that he wouldn't be bothering the other patrons.
pollystyrene
QUOTE(stargazer @ Jun 17 2009, 11:46 AM) *
Hipster Douchebag baby said he wanted this crib. You better get on it, GT and AP.


The comments on there are hilarious! "Why wouldn't you just keep the baby in the cardboard box it came in?" laugh.gif
treehugger
QUOTE(angie_21 @ Jun 17 2009, 09:11 AM) *
We were very rarely spanked, but if we acted up, my mom would say, "fine, I'm leaving" and turn around and walk out of the store without looking back. She never made it all the way to the car without us eventually running after her, because she never once gave in and turned around.


That reminds me of a story about my two older brothers. This would've been in the 1950s, and they were on a family vacation in the car. M kept poking A, and they were whining and being brats. Dad thought he'd scare them and pulled over the car and told them to get out and walk.

They got out of the car and disappeared into the hillsides! Mom and Dad had to make a campfire and roast hotdogs on the side of the road to get them to come back. laugh.gif
unicorn
Raisingirl: "Not that this is news or anything, but I get the sense that a whole generation of parents are raising their kids without ever saying no to them or setting limits. It bugs the shit out of me."



Nowadays people want it all; a career, a family etc. Not that there's anything wrong with that, but i think because of that something's gotta give. When my mother was pregnant with my elder sister she stopped working and became a stay-at-home-mom. the days she wasn'nt home when i got out of school, i can count on one hand. she was always there.

the most important thing about raising kids is that kids have no boundaries and he parents have to be there to give it to them. that means that you have to put a lot of effort in it and therefore also a lot of time. i learned first hand what kids need who did'nt have a proper upbringing; i used to work in a juvenile detention centre for kids who had serious behaviour problems. generally all they need is people who give them boundaries and security and that means an adult thats capable of setting limits and giving consequences, both positive and negative.
unfotunately a lot of people think very lightly about aving a kid and as a result i get confronted with the annoying consequences of poor upbringing.

i used to say i hated kids but i adjusted my opinion; i hate the parents of annoying kids who are not capable of raising one.
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