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girltrouble
ugh. you mean it gets worse not better?

i'd have a "strictly adults" policy for FB. honestly i feel so lucky that none of my friends are in the baby stage, and if they are, they are the kind that post once a month.
candycane_girl
I wish I could find an example for you. I've seen it on STFU Parents but that website has very little organization and no tags so I can't find it.
rogue
OMG CCG best website ever. Ever, ever, ever!

I post pictures of my furbabies but not often and only if it's something supercute. And I never update about what they're doing! That just insane. I totally agree with you - it's as if once people have children their lives come to a complete halt in every other aspect. No thanks! I like doing my thing just how I want to do it.

Also, I think that it is really hard to find a man who doesn't want children these days. My ex even said that he would have no problem being a stay-at-home dad! Uhm, what?
enfermera
let's see if this works:
baby's first facebook

i have recently been the lucky recipient of a smug parent scoffing at my luxurious childless life. i have to get up at 5 to get to work on time at 6:45, so i was looking forward to sleeping in a bit on my day off. when i woke up at 6:30, i posted something about not sleeping in much. one of my friends immediately felt the need to jump up and say something like "try having 2 rambunctious sons! you'll think 7:30 is sleeping late!" thanks, i DO think 7:30 is sleeping late. i replied with something assuring him that i tried to appreciate the benefits of having no kids every day.
spot-on
Yep I get that a lot too! I get up every day at 6.30 to walk the dogs, but I try and sleep in a little at weekends. Sleeping in for me is 8 at the latest. After a few nights week before last where I'd had serious problems sleeping I finally slept through the night and got up at 9.30! This was unheard of for me. I updated with a "just got up at 9.30 don't remember the last time I ever slept in so late, guess this makes up for the 4 nights of insomnia?" and I got some friends comments, those who knew me well and know I am a morning of "wow that's so unlike you" etc. But I also got the "try having 3 kids!" type comments. Urgh, parents think they are the only ones to get up in the night? and at all hours in the morning!
girltrouble
just that little snippet, enfer, gave me an eye twitch. no spank you.
crazyoldcatlady
QUOTE
My ex even said that he would have no problem being a stay-at-home dad! Uhm, what?


see i call total bullshit on things like that. i've had many a guy* say that, since i'm usually in the position to potentially make more money. they think being a stay-at-home dad sounds like a fucking vacay. i know that those same dudes would 1) end up feeling totally emasculated and probably spend the day fucking other housewives to prove their prowess remains intact, or 2) sit on their asses playing PS2, eating pizza out of a box on the floor, whilst the child slowly hangs himself in the venetian blind cords.

*disclaimer**: these are just referring to the myriad of douchebags i encounter and (likely) end up dating. i remain hopeful that there's a genuine aspiring house-dad out there somewhere.

**disclaimer disclaimer: please ignore the catlady, she's several flavors of salty tonight.

QUOTE
"try having 2 rambunctious sons! you'll think 7:30 is sleeping late!"


enfermera, not to disrespect your friend, but what a twunt.
candycane_girl
That was the exact example that I was thinking of so thanks for posting it, enfermera!
crazyoldcatlady
double post
enfermera
yeah, he's actually a dad, not a mom, which somehow makes it even more aggravating. we were in the same social circle in high school, and then became online-friendly when i was in college. since getting back in touch, he keeps giving off eau-du-jackass. since that comment he started a series of comments on his own page, complaining that there weren't enough HUMAN DADS in pixar movies. cause there are SO many humans in pixar movies in the first place. please, mr. white male, PLEASE try and find someone discriminating against you. i pointed out mr. incredible, explained the concept of anthropomorphism, and then asked him where all the female main characters, human or otherwise, pixar has. he shut up shortly after that.

cocl, i'm not sure that i HAVE run into a guy who wanted to be a stay-at-home dad. not one that told me about it, anyway!
spot-on
Like you said, not many humans in pixar films anyway. But, did he not watch finding nemo! I mean I know Marlin wasn't human, but he was a single Dad for heavens sake!!! Coincidentally we just watched the Incredibles again, lol.

I don't know a guy who was a SAHD but I do know a couple that does share the burden 50-50 which seems rare enough as it is!

I just don't see it happening often cos of this:

QUOTE
2) sit on their asses playing PS2, eating pizza out of a box on the floor, whilst the child slowly hangs himself in the venetian blind cords.
Persiflager
Apologies for a slight derail.

One of my boyfriend's workmates had just left his job to take over from his wife as the stay-at-home parent. He's a project manager (and apparently very good at it), so he scheduled in a handover meeting with her and insisted she put together a child file of permanent info, daily and weekly actions, budget etc.

He'll either be the best parent ever, or have a nervous breakdown after three months and run away to Algeria. I'm rooting for the former - he sounds like a geeky male Bree. We await the results of this experiment with interest.....
spot-on
Going camping for a few days in the desert with friends, all friends have kids. There will be at least 3 kids there. At least we have our own RV and I can go to my quiet retreat!
spot-on
Sounds like he's approaching it like a job which should be interesting. lol.


QUOTE(Persiflager @ Nov 25 2009, 05:51 AM) *
Apologies for a slight derail.

One of my boyfriend's workmates had just left his job to take over from his wife as the stay-at-home parent. He's a project manager (and apparently very good at it), so he scheduled in a handover meeting with her and insisted she put together a child file of permanent info, daily and weekly actions, budget etc.

He'll either be the best parent ever, or have a nervous breakdown after three months and run away to Algeria. I'm rooting for the former - he sounds like a geeky male Bree. We await the results of this experiment with interest.....

doodlebug
Okay, I'm getting the IUD. I just broke up with the vasectomied Soulman, so I have to start thinking. Apparently I am too old to go on the pill!!! TOO OLD!!!
sybarite
Doodle, I'm almost your age and I've been on what's called the mini-pill (progesterone only) for years--maybe check that out? I find it very non-invasive...

/derail

I wonder how long it will take for the children's inherent randomness to make a mess of your friend's childcare binder, Persi.
raisingirl
I found out someone I know is pregnant (happily married, not crazy, both with good jobs). My first reaction: Glad it's not me! So very glad. I still feel like a freak for having this reaction, though.
sybarite
Raisin, people have been sprogging up all around me in the last two years and every time I feel a little bit smugger that it's not me. Friends are on their second (even third) and my first reaction is still 'but I get unbroken sleeeeeep.'

Clearly my priorities need no adjusting. smile.gif
rogue
I totally agree with you, syb. Sleep is infinitely more important to me than procreating. I'm not even kidding here. I think I love sleep a little too much, to be completely honest.

And doodle - I don't think your too old to be on the Pill, I think it's just that if you're over thirty-five medical professionals suggest that you don't use it due to risk of clotting/strokes/etc. as women get older. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think I read on another thread that you are over thirty-five. I'm definitely not trying to assume anything here. And I'm sure you know this already, smart lady that you are, but some people don't. I was taken off the Pill earlier this year due to having headaches almost every day for more than three months because my doc feared they might give me a stroke. I'm just saying. smile.gif
missladyj
Raisin,
I have the EXACT same reaction. I usually take it a step further and when someone tells me they or their spouse is pregnant I respond with " Better you than me! "

I too love to sleep and hate when I don't get enough of it. I have been sick with a bad cough for a week and a half and the worst part was that I coudn't get a full night sleep because I was waking up coughing every couple of hours. I wanted to die due to lack of sleep it was horrible. I couldn't imagine what that has to be like every night for however long it take a crotch fruit to start to sleep through the night.
doodlebug
I can't go on the pill b/c I'm about to turn 41, into my menopausal years. My ovulation becomes unpredictable and I can't rely on the pill. I've already had my first "weird period" - last month, I got my period two weeks after my last one! Also, I smoke.

I'm a bit worried about the hormonal IUD, though - I read something about there being a problem having it when you have insulin resistance - I think I should do a bit more research.
treehugger
*wink wink hint hint...

I haven't had any trouble with my tubal ligation.... wink.gif
sybarite
Not to beat the horse, but I started taking the mini-pill in the first place because I smoked (only just quit). It also has no upper age limit advised... fwiw.
Persiflager
Song about pregnant women being smug.
thepointybird
Ugh, just been over at Jezebel where everyone is getting their knickers knotted over that new documentary, Babies. For a site with such riduculously stringent commenting rules about moronic input and echo-chambering, they sure seem to be tolerant of the 5 million variations on "Sqqqquueeeeeee, my ovaries have exploded!!!!!" that inevitably accompany any post about infants. Just doesn't compute with me at all. Babies mostly just make me feel either bored or uneasy. Bored, because obviously, they're boring, and uneasy because I am expecting the caterwauling to begin at any second.
spot-on
Ditto that. I just end up on edge waiting for the "do you want to hold him/her?" and then I say no and they get offended and I explain that I don't like babies which sparks off the "oh it's totally different when it's your own, you'll see in a few years" then I explain that we aren't having kids and I get treated like I just grew an extra head.

People that have young kids know not to come to our house with the kids in tow. We are NOT a kid friendly house. If I want to leave knives out on the counter I can, scissors on the table, yep I can. Don't expect me to kid proof my house for the 1 hour you'll be around. Don't like it, don't come. We live like this because we can, we're childfree!



QUOTE(thepointybird @ Dec 1 2009, 04:17 PM) *
Ugh, just been over at Jezebel where everyone is getting their knickers knotted over that new documentary, Babies. For a site with such riduculously stringent commenting rules about moronic input and echo-chambering, they sure seem to be tolerant of the 5 million variations on "Sqqqquueeeeeee, my ovaries have exploded!!!!!" that inevitably accompany any post about infants. Just doesn't compute with me at all. Babies mostly just make me feel either bored or uneasy. Bored, because obviously, they're boring, and uneasy because I am expecting the caterwauling to begin at any second.

spot-on
seen it before about a year ago, but BEST SONG EVER and so damn true!

QUOTE(Persiflager @ Nov 29 2009, 04:31 AM) *

rogue
Wow, I just watched the trailer for the Babies documentary and I gotta say, that film is my darkest nightmares in theatrical form. *Shudders*

And spot-on, that's seriously one of my biggest piss-offs ever, when people tell you "oh it's different when it's your own"/"you'll see in a few years". Uhm, no, I won't see because I'M NOT HAVING CHILDREN. I swear the next time someone says that to me I'm telling them off. I've been told that so many times that it really burns my bacon and I'm tired of smiling and nodding through it.

That being said, I don't hate kids, I hate parents. I really find that in this day and age parents just let their kids get away with everything! I see kids do shit all the time that my mother would have nipped in the bud ASAP if I had pulled that kind of shit. I have the Fear of God of my mother, I'm not even kidding, and I've outgrown her! I'm five inches taller than her and she could still whoop my arse if need be. I've always said that if I were to ever hit my mother I had better make sure I dial 911 first to tell them to send the EMTs out to me right away because she'd put me in the hospital. And that being said - my mother has never, ever had to hit me to get me to smarten up - the look was enough. I don't think parents even use the look these days!

So yeah, there are some kids that I adore, like my cousin's three children and another cousin who is five years younger than I am - he was my most favourite child ever growing up. I used to drag him everywhere. But the whole raising them 24/7? Nope, not for me. Vive la revolution of leaving sharp objects lying around all over our houses! laugh.gif
candycane_girl
Rogue, the look was always enough for me when I was little! I know that I was spanked a few times (and by a few I literally mean maybe 3 times) but you know what? I don't even remember it. What I do remember is my mom's scary look or her warning that if I didn't behave she would spank me in front of everyone so they could see what a poorly behaved child I was.
rogue
Yeah! I think I was spanked once in my entire life and I don't remember it at all. My mother didn't even want to hit me. She always tells the story of how I used to play with the dials on the stereo when I was two and how my father told her to just tap my fingers and tell me no very forcefully and it took her three days to build up the courage to do it because she was so afraid that she was going to scar me for life. When she finally did it I laughed and toddled away to play with something else and never touched the stereo again. Oh, mothers.

She also made sure I didn't throw tantrums by saying If you want something to cry about I will give you something to cry about! That shut me up pretty fast as well!
spot-on
hahaha so true "the look"! Or the "wait till we get home!". Nothing ever happened but the threat was enough to make you stop and smarten up sharpish!
treehugger
oh, yeah...my mom had three stages, they'd escalate with the severity of the crime.

Stage one-my name spoken with emphasis with "the look"....usually resulted in a shunning for the evening.

Stage two-this was getting pretty bad-my name AND MIDDLE NAME spoken with emphasis with "the look" along with pointed finger, usually resulted in being grounded.

Stage three-this was pure unadulterated RAGE stage-I ceased to have my own name and was called "missy". That was when I was filled with dread and knew that I would severely regret whatever I had done to make her angry. A beating* usually accompanied that stage.

I only got called "missy" like maybe three times in my life, but I remember all three!

ETA: I have to clarify-I don't mean like a child abuse kind of beating, but just a normal "corporal punishment of the times" kind of beating. Probably a spanking times about three. I grew up in the sixties. Parents swatted their kids and didnt' think twice about it.
rogue
Yeah, I knew I was in biiiig trouble when my mother used my full name. First, middle, and last. That meant I was close to death.

I know that sometimes kids can just be bad and it really isn't the parents' fault, but most of the issues I have with kids today is that their parents let them get away with murder. I remember one time I was coming home from school on the bus and this toddler was crying up a storm - so loud I could hear him over my iPod, which was turned up ALL THE WAY (very bad, I know) - and the mother was bothering him and encouraging it! I almost got up and decked her, I was so mad. I mean, seriously? I just don't know why parents seem reluctant to discipline their children these days.
koffeewitch
Ah, but Rogue, toddlers are not rational beings...you cannot threaten them, win with an argument and spanking them would make the bus situation worse. And you can't just beat them bloody until they pass out unconscious. Seriously, if you were crying, all the screaming "STOPITSTOPIT" in the world would not do anything to make you quit. WHen I'm out in public and someone's toddler is having a shit fit, I take my keys out of my pocket and toss them in the air a few times. The kid usually stops whining to see what I"m doing, then I toss them my keys to fiddle with for a few minutes. Now, you might not be comfortable doing this (and I know you shouldn't feel you HAVE to help shut somebody's kid up), but it WORKS, by God. And the poor mum will bless you for just not shooting her dirty looks.

I know about parents giving their kids "the look", but it works on slightly older children. Toddlers are shits on wheels. They are hurricanes anthropomorphized. Just enjoy the fact you are NOT that kids mother.
nickclick
most of my tantrums were in stores when i wanted something SOBAD. after several stern NOs my Mom would drop the shopping cart and, with the vice grip that could rivet a bolt on an airplane, grab my arm and drag me to the car to go home. and she never lied - we would always leave A&P or JC Penney or wherever and go home.
spot-on
Koffeewitch, my arguement to this is that it most the time the situation CAN be remedied by the parent removing the child from the environment. I appreciate that at times this cannot happen (train/plane) but damnit when we were young and out somewhere you either behaved or you went home. Now it's like parents feel some kind of entitlement to let their kids scream and run amok and ruin everyones evening just so they can get a night out. Seriously if you wanted a nice relaxing evening out, get a sitter!

Like nickclick if NO didn't suffice when we were younger, then there was no third and fourth chance, it was homeward bound. Tough shit if you changed your mind near the exit and decided to behave.

Also does anyone else get REALLY irritated with parents that tell the child/toddler in a soft voice "No, don't do that, it's naughty" whilst not really paying attention to them AT ALL. Yeah, that'll work!

Urgh, venting cos apparently it's idiotic parenting day in our city today!
koffeewitch
Agreed, Spot-on. When my kid is acting up in a library or store, I drag his ass in the bathroom and have a "chat" with him. If that doesn't work, we leave. But I have to take public transportation a lot right now and sometimes all the talks before hand about how to behave on the bus (and I DRILL him about what he can and cannot do) do not always have the desired effect. Mostly now that he's six it's stuff like, LOOK MOMMY AT THAT MAN HIS HAIR IS KINDA DIFFERENT AND WEIRD. Our whole fucking family is kinda different and weird, but he doesn't understand that yet.

MY favorite is when people take their kids into a store (where I am working as clerk) and act like they don't know the kid and have never seen it before. The kid is knocking shit over and messing up aisles and running into old people and the parents don't say SHIT. Of course, the other thing I can't stand is screaming at the kid rather than parenting. I don't like the "get your goddamn mother fucking ass over here before I beat the bloody shit out of you" school of parenting either. But back to toddlers, I now try to see the moms point of view and even help her out if I can. (I don't mean the ignorant moms). But even the best parents in the world have bad days with their kids. We are feminist women and should try to understand one another. Before I had kids, I was overly judgemental and because I did not have kids, I was talking through my ass. I hadn't a clue what raising a child is like; and now I'm ashamed at how smug I was and about passing judgement on parents of tantrum-throwing toddlers. Sometimes a person just has to get their grocery shopping done even if the toddler is pitching a fit. Spot-on I think you were talking more about restaurants/fun shopping/movies, etc. with loud kids. ANd in that case, YES, leave the kid at home. I haven't been to a movie theatre in countless years because of my kids. I've often left HalfPrice books and other places I dearly love because of my kids, but that's just life. A lot of parents today are just too self-centered, I guess.
spot-on
Yep that's the issue. I understand that if your on a plane/train/bus and the kid tantrums there is little you can do about till you get off. But when there is a clear solution of leaving the establishment clearly the parents aren't interested in parenting the child at all. Like your example of taking the kid to the bathroom for a 'talk', exactly my point. Take the kid aside, tell them off sternly, then return. If the behaviour continues then you leave.

OMG we used to get that crap all the time when I worked in a store through college! Kids running amok and parents doing nothing and just ignoring the chaos. The shouty parenting I hear sometimes, there is one family up the street that yells and swears and their kids a lot. I don't like the way he shouts and swears and it does lead me to wonder about his parenting skills, but he's an asshole kinda person anyway so no wonder really.

Another thing that bugs me is when *I* move from the situation because of noisy kids, whether I leave a store because of noisy kids or move tables at a restaurant the parents look at me like it's MY fault! Seriously? And yes if the kids are bad I will leave a restaurant AND tell the owners why. You expect a certain about of noise grocery shopping, it's hell enough as it is with folks leaving carts everywhere, blocking aisles and generally acting like they have 6 hours to do $20 worth of shopping, or say at McDonalds type play areas but in other recreational/eating places I expect you to either shut the kid up or leave.

You're right, I don't have any idea what it's like to raise a child (and I never will, thankfully) however I don't think it's unreasonable to expect parents to do their job: parenting. Some parents are too soft with their toddlers and try to interact with them like adults. They aren't adults like you said and you can't bargain/reason with them. So, just do the rest of the people a favor and take them home. If they don't see a consequence for their action they won't learn.

We were always told (as already has been mentioned) if you don't stop crying I'll give you something to cry about. Not that they ever did, the threat was enough. What happened in the last 20+ years that this is no longer a threat? It worked on all the kids I knew. Even the threat of "wait till we get home" would shut us up in an instant snap of the fingers!

QUOTE
A lot of parents today are just too self-centered, I guess.


WORD!
koffeewitch
Guys, for the first time in my adult life I am sincerely worried about our continued right to choose abortion. Stats show that young women are becoming more likely to consider themselves pro-life. I saw no real sign of protest over the Stupak amendment in the Health care bill. If I were a pro-lifer, I would sense that my era had come. Most Americans are old enough to remember when abortion was illegal in the U.S. I used to think it would never happen again...but what might happen is that while it remains legal, it is too expensive and difficult to obtain to be a real option for any but the wealthiest women.
spot-on
If it happens (and I don't think it will) I'll be moving back to England.
koffeewitch
Oh, I don't think they will come out and out-law abortion. It's much more insidiously sneaky than that. Just make sure that no facility can be used to provide one (because clinics and hospitals all receive some govt. funding) and make sure that private insurance plans drop it from regular coverage, too. It will be available from a few private doctors (for decades in Ohio you can only get an abortion in 8 of our 88 counties) and will be cash up-front. And of course, the clock will always be ticking. If it takes you too long to save up the money and/or find a provider than you will be too far along to get the procedure done.
thepointybird
I agree with you Koffeewitch, from my outsiders' POV, it does look like they're trying to not so much outlaw it in the US, but make it something that is very very difficult to obtain. We are lucky here in the UK in that abortion is mostly free and still fairly easy to come by (except if you are in Northern Ireland, which is a post for a whole other thread, you do NOT want me to get started on that!). Even though there is a strong anti-choice lobby, their attempts to lower the legal limit from 24 weeks to 12 was roundly defeated by MPs when it went to vote last year. Not that we pro-choice people in the UK can afford to get complacent. There just isn't the same depth of anti-choice feeling as you guys seem to have.

Sigh, I was just coming in to say that I have just lost yet another of my close friends to the Motherhood, she is 3 months pregnant. She and her husband had sort of said that they weren't really bothered about having kids, so I'm pretty surprised to be honest. I now only have one close gal pal left who doesn't have kids. Sigh! I guess this means that not only will I have to start dating younger men, since men my own age tend to be a bit broody, I will possibly also have to start hanging out exclusively with 22 yo women too!
missladyj
a coworker , after explaining to me about his daughter's tantrum that lasted for over and hour, asks " So are you ready for some crotch fruit?"
me: " Nope"

I didn't have the heart to tell him that I have an IUD and don't have to worry about being pregnant till 2014 or that I love my childfree exsistence. poor miserable bastard.

Why do people have kids then complain about it all the time? suck it up breeders. suck it up.
spot-on
How sad is it that today we were invited to a potluck type thing at a coworkers house but this morning we decided not to go as we realized his wife is about to drop another sprog (they already have one) and that almost all the people there will be breeders with kids in tow. Um nice relaxing day at home whre I can get a jump on all the crap I have to do OR spend the day with people I don't know and their small kids? oooh tough one!
raisingirl
This article? Is excellent.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/200...hildren-babies1
thepointybird
Yep, love that article Raisingirl. I could have written it. Her thoughts on the matter echo mine almost exactly.
turbojenn
Brilliant. Thanks, Raisin! Had brunch with a college friend today who is also CBC, and it was thrilling to chat for hours, both happy with our lives without children, and be able to express how frustrating it is that most of the world doesn't respect our choice.
rogue
That article is awesome, raisin. I posted it to my Facebook because she hit the nail on the head - her reasons are the exact same as mine as to why I don't want to have children. Number one reason: sleep. I love sleep too much. I actually woke up on Sunday morning this weekend and said aloud, "I love my bed and my pillow and my duvet!" all while snuggling down deeper into the warmth. I don't need no babies waking me up all night long - that would just breed resentment!

I also think it's pretty sad that as soon as someone I know on my Facebook has a child I immediately ban them from my newsfeed (bless the "hide" option!). It's just that as soon as they pop one out that's all they talk about! "My child did this, my child did that, my child is so funny!" I. Don't. Care. And I seriously want to say that but I don't like being mean. Le sigh.


spot-on
Awesome article.

I just wanted to ask something too. Has anyone else noticed that those women the same age as them that do have children seem to age quicker? I mean I'm no spring chicken but of all our friends I think I look the least, shall we say... haggered? I have one friend who is almost completely grey in her late 30's (she dyes it though now) and another that just popped out her 2nd about a year ago and seemed to age 5 years overnight. I mean I know kids take a toll but wow. These women REALLY changed a lot. I guess those sleepless nights do take a toll!
doodlebug
Ditto for posting it on crackbook - thanks for posting the article!
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