Help - Search - Members - Calendar
Full Version: Childfree by Choice!
The BUST Lounge > Forums > Friends and Family
Pages: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37, 38, 39, 40, 41, 42, 43, 44, 45, 46, 47, 48, 49, 50, 51, 52, 53, 54, 55, 56, 57, 58, 59, 60, 61, 62
rogue
spot-on, I've definitely noticed that people with kids look older than people without. Not just women, men too. I pride myself on the fact that I'm told that I still look like I'm eighteen, even though I'm twenty-five. I mean, 18-25 isn't much of an age difference but you know. I still like it. I don't want to look old! I think that people with kids just have more stress and it just ages them more. It's kind of unavoidable.

I gotta say though - I was pretty smugly pumped in the car this morning when a co-worked who I'm carpooling with this week said he hasn't gotten enough sleep since his second child was born a month-and-a-half ago. I get allll the sleep I want, whenever I want. I kind of wanted to neener-neener! him, but it's kind of immature and he is giving me a lift to work all this week. Haha.
auntilulu
I've got three sisters, one who has 4 kids, one who has 2 and one who has an only child. They are all a year apart so should pretty much all look about the same age but but the difference is remarkable. My sister who has 4 looks about 10 years older than my sister who has 1. She never sleeps more than the minimum and has no time to take care of herself.

Not that not aging myself is a reason why I'm not procreating but it is a bright side, isn't it? I get to sleep as much as I want, spend my money on myself alone and I don't have to substitute swear words with things like "Jeepers Crow" or worry about having inappropriate magazines/tv shows/who knows what else in my house. I remember meeting up with a coworker a year after his daughter was born and asking him what he had been up to, he just looked at me confusedly and said "Having a kid?".
pollystyrene
Yeah, nothing ages people physically like having kids.

Maybe this is more of a confession, but this dog whimpering in this video (it's cute, not sad, I promise!) evoked more of a sympathetic emotional reaction in me than any crying baby ever has. Crying babies just make me want to leave the room (and I had quite enough of them over the holidays, lemme tell ya! blink.gif ) I mean, if someone left one on my doorstep, I wouldn't just ignore it, but if a healthy baby whose parental unit is within earshot is crying, I'm outta there!
angie_21
I dunno about the aging thing. I met one of my friends about a year after the birth of her second child, and since then she has looked younger and younger every year, I think because after the toddler stage is over, parents get more sleep again and life starts to return to normal, and they are able to be a bit healthier (and much more fun to hang out with). Also she worked really hard and lost at least 30 pouds of baby weight, which definitely does age a person.

Honestly though, if you could skip the first 5 years I would reconsider my feelings on ever having kids. Kids are cute, babies seem like a nightmare.
lilacwine13
I have to agree about the aging thing; I honestly think that is one of the main reasons why I look much younger than I actually am. I've met a few people who have kids and who look older than me. And Polly, I couldn't even watch that video; animals in distress makes me feel too sad. Crying kids make me too nervous or too annoyed, and wish someone would take care of them or take them out of earshot.

My Facebook friends must be weird, or else the ones I usually chat with are pretty cool. It seems like whenever I talk to them the last thing they want to talk about is their kids. They might mention them in their status updates, but whenever I chat with them it's like "Okay finally, here's someone who doesn't have kids so I can talk to them about TV, books, music, etc. Yea!" I really don't mind because kid stories tend to bore me, and usually all I want to know if the kid is still alive and in good health.
pollystyrene
Oh, the video is just a little puppy who's scared to go down the stairs and is wimpering pitifully, in a cute way- not an ASPCA commercial with Sarah McGlauchlin or anything.
pollystyrene
The CBC issue is rearing its ugly head again in my relationship, or in people surrounding us, anyway. We're getting married in May by a laicized priest- a former Catholic priest, a friend of LeBoy's family, who quit the priesthood to marry a nun. He still retains his authority to perform marriages, but cannot do them in a church. I've met the man, he's very nice, a good liberal Catholic. I knew there would probably be some religiousness in the ceremony he will do, but I hope he'll dial it back a bit since I'm not Catholic and have no intention of becoming so.

Because we're not getting married in the church, we don't have to do the Pre-Cana (the premarital counseling that the Catholic church requires), but our "priest" still wants to sit down and talk to us about stuff...it's a little silly; we'll have been together 9 years by the time we get married, living together for 5 years- we've handled most of the issues they cover in those classes, but if it makes him feel better, whatever. I've given LeBoy the responsibility of scheduling our time together with him, which of course means it hasn't been done yet rolleyes.gif

Yesterday, at a family party, LeMom mentioned that she and LeDad went out to dinner with our "priest" and his wife this week and he mentioned that we haven't called yet. She also said, in her most passive-aggressive voice possible, "I know you two don't plan on having kids, but since there is always the possibility that you could change your minds, you know he is going to ask about that, and if you are going to raise them as Catholics." I told her that he can ask us, but it's going to be a moot point. She said, "well, you never know, people change their minds, and he is still marrying you as a priest, so he has to make sure of these things. I mean, you never know, you could change your mind- it is physically possible that you have kids...it is physically possible, right?" LeBoy and I just sort of hemmed and hawed.

After we left, we talked about it in the car and I said that I'll be happy to discuss the issue with the "priest" before the wedding (and if the standard confidentiality still applies, I'll even tell him how certain I am we're not having kids- the vasectomy saw to that!) but under no circumstances do I want the "yes, we promise to raise the kids Catholic" as part of the ceremony itself- even if I was having kids, my wedding ceremony has nothing to do with them and I wouldn't want it mentioned. LeBoy said that was fine with him, but he even wonders if our "priest" will even ask us about that- just because his mom says he will doesn't mean he will.

Ugh, I just looked up what a normal Catholic ceremony entails....crap, what have I gotten myself into? The "priest" knows that I'm not Catholic and has still agreed to do our wedding, but now I'm worried about his expectations and if we don't follow the Catholic ceremony to whatever degree he wants us to, if he won't marry us.
stargazer
QUOTE(pollystyrene @ Jan 11 2010, 12:46 PM) *
We're getting married in May by a laicized priest- a former Catholic priest, a friend of LeBoy's family, who quit the priesthood to marry a nun. He still retains his authority to perform marriages, but cannot do them in a church. I've met the man, he's very nice, a good liberal Catholic.


Read this part again, polly. Think about it. A man who left the priesthood so he could shack up with a nun, may not be so high and mighty about your reproductive system. He wasn't able to follow such a rigid order himself and neither was his wife. Keep an open mind with this meeting. I think he may just want to get to know Pete and you as a couple so he can feel connected and prepare a wedding ceremony which reflects your relationship. My friend had her wedding officiated by a minister and just meet briefly with the man to talk about their relationship. I think *that* discussion with LeMom was more about her agenda for Pete and you to have kids. Don't let her crack you!

((((((((((((((polly & leboy))))))))))))))))))
pollystyrene
QUOTE(stargazer @ Jan 11 2010, 04:47 PM) *
Read this part again, polly. Think about it. A man who left the priesthood so he could shack up with a nun, may not be so high and mighty about your reproductive system. He wasn't able to follow such a rigid order himself and neither was his wife. Keep an open mind with this meeting. I think he may just want to get to know Pete and you as a couple so he can feel connected and prepare a wedding ceremony which reflects your relationship. My friend had her wedding officiated by a minister and just meet briefly with the man to talk about their relationship. I think *that* discussion with LeMom was more about her agenda for Pete and you to have kids. Don't let her crack you!

((((((((((((((polly & leboy))))))))))))))))))


Oh, I don't disagree- LeBoy made the same point and said he'd even call him on it because they didn't have kids after they got married, either. All these months since we decided to use him as our officiant, I've been looking forward to it because I felt like it would please all involved and now I hope we're not scrambling to find an officiant at the last minute and have a not-pleased LeMom, who is wondering why we split with her friend over "irreconcilable differences ". I've given LeBoy until the end of this week to call him and set up our first little chat.

If this doesn't work, I wonder if I can get a Satanic priest or something. Hey, prophecy_guy is an ordained Dudeist priest!
sassy
So I lost a childfree-by-choicer to pregnancy sad.gif A friend from high school posted that she was pregnant on facebook. She had been one of the few friends in my childfree by choice corner. I don't know if this was planned, but I would have to guess that it wasn't. I had talked to her fairly recently and she was still not wanting babies. *sigh*
culturehandy
Polly, I'm angry for you and the MIL comments. It's your life and even if you did decide to have kids, it's none of her business. If she wants to raise more catholic children, she best be getting started on having kids of her own.
pollystyrene
None of her business and none of the church's business, especially since we don't even belong to a church and LeBoy's not really a practicing Catholic. He still considers himself one, but sees no need to go to church more than Christmas and Easter.

Well, we're meeting with the priest on the 25th, so let's hope my worries are a moot point.
sassygrrl
How did it go polly?

We're still trying to figure out officiants as well.
I'm considering Dudeist (I wonder if anyone would do that in my wedding party?)or Buddhist. We have a meeting with a guy next week. I don't what the ceremony consists of though.



pollystyrene
Oh, we don't see him for a couple weeks, so we'll see.

Have you seen the Dudeist Wedding Ceremony? It's in red, about halfway down. Love it!
pollystyrene
This is just horrific. The things you hear when you forget to mute the commercials.
auralpoison
Oh. My. God. WTF? "Ditch the diaper / do the dance!" I particularly loved the fat middle aged dad in the back.
faerietails
hey everyone,

i just felt like coming in here because i'm kinda bummed. one of my close relatives is currently pregnant, and i'm happy for her. i am. i just hate the romanticization (is that a word?) of pregnancy. i'm sure there will be fucking badass moments? but it's also something that will have plenty of moments of obnoxious, boring, frustrating bullshit. and it's something that women have done since the beginning of time.

i'm just...ahhhhhhhhhh! it's bitchy of me to go there, but christ. dry.gif
missladyj
bitch away faerie!
missladyj
pregnant woman" I can't stop blowing my nose or going to the bathroom. So when are you going to enjoy the thrills of pregnancy?"
me " Never"

the end.
snow white


parenthood really does seem like a trap to me. i know if i had a kid i'd love it and protect it, but i get a kick out of ppl who act like they've "caught the pregnancy". maby i should stop watching "16 and pregnant". while i'm at it i should stop going to wal-mart.

and i still feel like a freak for not having that list of baby names ready and waiting.
angie_21
Every once in a while I wonder if I'm a freak for having never thought about my "dream" wedding, never picked a baby name, never written Mrs. in front of my name to see what it looks like, and never asked to hold a baby. Then I spend a weekend doing whatever I want, and all week working my butt of for the career I want, and I know it's everyone else that's crazy. They can give in to lowest common denominator biological urges if they want, I'm not putting myself through that sh*t just to feel like I'm somehow a better, more "productive" member of society. I work, and my taxes pay for their kids' education anyways! (I don't mind that, education should be the #1 government priority, before health care even)

I would never judge a single woman who got "knocked up" because I will never know what reason. I mean, I don't even comprehend why married women have children so it's clearly just not a part of life I am qualified to judge. And accidents DO happen, and a lot of girls never get the education they need, or access to health care, to stop accidents from happening. How can you judge her when it's probably some dumbass guy convincing her that not using protection won't hurt, just this once? I might be prejudiced because I know girls who have been in that situation, and kept the baby, and they were none of the things you say.
sybarite
'Then I spend a weekend doing whatever I want, and all week working my butt of for the career I want, and I know it's everyone else that's crazy.' YES. This sentence not only exactly mirrors how I feel but also reminds me why I love the lounge. Cheers angie!

snow white
QUOTE(angie_21 @ Mar 2 2010, 08:12 PM) *
I mean, I don't even comprehend why married women have children so it's clearly just not a part of life I am qualified to judge.



totes (totally)
hellotampon
Has anyone seen the comment war going on under that article about STFU Parents on the main Bust site?
missladyj
could you post a link? I couldn't find it. thanks!
humanist77
I don't have the mental energy to read through all these, but here it is:
backing away slowly....
auralpoison
Wow. That is fucking awesome. And we're the ones that get shit over supposed backbiting & bitchery. Them wimmins be passing out the haterade in 36oz sippy cups!
humanist77
scary how often this occurs. Scary how often The Onion really does speak to the truth.

srsly, aural.
missladyj
thanks humanist! how very entertaining.
humanist77
it's something that I can't stand about breeders-I think it's the absolute most selfish reason to have children-cuz you think it will save your marriage. I've seen SO MANY couples do all sorts of shit like that to try to save a terrible relationship-getting engaged, getting a dog together, moving in together(I know I've been guilty of stuff like that), but thinking that a baby will save your shitty relationship is just messed up. guh.
thepointybird
The comments on that STFU Parents thread on Bust were ridiculous. So many people posting had had a total sense of humour fail to begin with. But I hate this notion (which a few commenters there seemed to have) that not being interested in children makes one a bad feminist. Comments like "motherhood IS feminism". Um, nah. Feminism should be talking about all aspects of women's lives, not this singular issue. Mothers are not worth more than childfree women. I don't know where this sense of entitlement is coming from, MY mother sure as hell doesn't have it......
stargazer
I think one commenter hit the nail on the head when the poster mentioned that most of these people were probably obnoxious to begin with.

As for the Bust blog and comments, lots of dribble with poor arguments. Of course, I could be acting snobby here. :turns nose up into the air:
doodlebug
You know, the funny thing for me is, I never read STFU Parents until I saw the link here and read the comments. And I thought it was pretty funny, but at the same time, I thought, "Gee, I wish I had something to send to them!" I think maybe I've gotten away with not having obnoxious parent friends on Facebook or something. I do have friends with kids - probably most of them have kids, I'd guess. But no one has really posted anything I could have been as disgusted by as the stuff on STFU Parents. Most of the people I'm friends with have lives outside their kids, maybe, which is good. I don't know if I'd actually be able to sustain a relationship with someone whose life revolves around his or her kids. What would you talk about? I did really ENJOY STFU Parents! I've read all the way through to the end since the link was posted! wink.gif

I heard something on CBC radio the other day, just a brief mention of the idea that motherism is taking over feminism, how "mothers rights" issues are taking over other women's rights issues on political platforms, while other women's rights issues are falling off the table. I thought that was interesting, and I guess in retrospect, I noticed the trend about 10 years ago when governments (in Canada at least) stopped referring to "women's rights" in their ministries and committees, and started using the catchphrase "women and families." Always together, you know. It's disturbing, and I wish I'd caught it sooner. Well, I caught it, but I didn't really put it together with a concept like "motherism."
thepointybird
QUOTE(doodlebug @ Mar 21 2010, 11:22 PM) *
I heard something on CBC radio the other day, just a brief mention of the idea that motherism is taking over feminism, how "mothers rights" issues are taking over other women's rights issues on political platforms, while other women's rights issues are falling off the table.


Oh yes, one hundred times this. We've got a general election coming up in the UK, and apparently all the parties are recognising that they need to be wooing women. But what political parties in the UK mean when they say "women" is "mothers". I mean yes, we are lucky here in that we have access to free contraception, we have screening programs in place for cervical and breast cancer, and as of now we have fairly good provision for abortion. But the Labour government's focus on ending child poverty has had a rather unsavoury effect in the UK - this being that single, low income people without children are now the most likely group to be living in poverty. If I decide tomorrow to irresponsibly get myself pregnant, I am guaranteed the normal unemployment benefit, much better housing, tax credits and child benefit. If I trundle along as a childfree singleton, unemployed as I currently am, struggling to put food in my own mouth? Nada. Not one party seems to want to address this issue. It's all about school catchment areas and the freedom to chose a home birth and tax credits to make it easier to return to work after children. These things are all important, sure, but there are a hell of a lot of women struggling who are completely overlooked - the subtle insinuation being that as a woman, you may as well not exist if you aren't going to breed.
koffeewitch
QUOTE(angie_21 @ Mar 2 2010, 09:12 PM) *
Every once in a while I wonder if I'm a freak for having never thought about my "dream" wedding, never picked a baby name, never written Mrs. in front of my name to see what it looks like, and never asked to hold a baby. Then I spend a weekend doing whatever I want, and all week working my butt of for the career I want, and I know it's everyone else that's crazy. They can give in to lowest common denominator biological urges if they want, I'm not putting myself through that sh*t just to feel like I'm somehow a better, more "productive" member of society. I work, and my taxes pay for their kids' education anyways! (I don't mind that, education should be the #1 government priority, before health care even)

I would never judge a single woman who got "knocked up" because I will never know what reason. I mean, I don't even comprehend why married women have children so it's clearly just not a part of life I am qualified to judge. And accidents DO happen, and a lot of girls never get the education they need, or access to health care, to stop accidents from happening. How can you judge her when it's probably some dumbass guy convincing her that not using protection won't hurt, just this once? I might be prejudiced because I know girls who have been in that situation, and kept the baby, and they were none of the things you say.


Angie 21, even though it's the second paragraph I wanted to highlight I had to leave your entire post intact, as I adore it! (Even though I'm the ever-lurking hip Mama of this thread).
As to getting "knocked up", I have known women who have gotten pregnant on every form of birth control out there, EVEN the hormonal IUD! The methods of birth control available honestly SUCK ass. I feel like women are expected to spend their entire adult youth on hormonal birth control with questionable health effects and then when we go through "the change" we're supposed to go through hormone replacement therapy for the rest of our lives. This has always sounded like an evil plot that benefits big pharm industries. I have known women who take their 99% effective birth control pills religiously because their lives are in serious jeopardy and they have nearly died in pregnancy, and pills have failed them. I have known people to get pregnant on depro-prevara and then not realize it until it was nearly too late for an abortion because they did not believe it was possible to get pregnant on hormonal contraceptives. My own counselor had to have fertility treatments to have her first baby and then she got pregnant on BC pills. Even having your tubes tied leaves a certain risk of pregnancy. So yes, accidents DO happen and even our best options fail. Personally, the only thing that has worked for me, it to keep track of my ovulation cycle and use extra pre-cautions during ovulation.
koffeewitch
A post-script: on the subject of mother's issues taking over feminism... I've been really upset over the lack of feminism visible in the media. When Bart Stupack pulled his shit, where was the feminist outcry? In my 20s, I organized, rallied, marched, volunteered to defend women going into abortion clinics from Operation Rescue, drove to Washington to support choice, wrote letters to the newspapers and campaigned for feminist, pro-choice candidates. I KNOW many of you do these things, too,(and may the Goddess bless you.) But where has feminism gone? Naturally the feminist mamas (like me) spend a great deal of our free time campaigning for non-sexist education, or for whole foods in school lunches or for laws that protect our breastfeeding rights. I'm dying to see feminism back in the spotlight and visible once again. We still have too many young women who either take the changes made by their grandmothers for granted or who feel that we are in a post-feminist era. So ladies, don't keep your beautiful, passionate selves buried here where you're preaching to the choir. GO out in the world and kick some ass.
doodlebug
WTF is it about parents anyway?

My boss upstairs loaned me out to another department for end of year stuff - THIS new supervisor asked me if I could come in a half hour earlier and leave a half hour earlier, because he has to leave early to pick up his kids. Okay, no problem, I can respect that. I hate mornings, but I can do it.

But then? He never shows up on time in the morning! I drag my ass out of bed to get here 15 minutes early, so I can get coffee and set up my workstation and all that jazz, but I can't actually START working until he's here, because this isn't my department and I don't know what to do without supervision. That was the whole reason for the schedule change. EVERY MORNING he's late, and why? Because of the kids dawdling. THESE ARE TEENAGERS, not willful 4 year olds! Come on!

Maybe this belongs in Corn Cobs....nah.
doodlebug
I'm so glad this thread exists. There's no where else on the internet I feel safe posting this stuff.

Okay. If your child is SCREAMING her little head off in a store, the thing to do is TAKE YOUR CHILD OUT OF THE FUCKING STORE. DO NOT keep waiting, with your SCREAMING child, in a long, long, long line up to pay for your crap. I could understand maybe if someone is buying essentials like groceries or medicine. But seriously? This was at VALUE VILLAGE at lunch time! The child was REALLY SCREAMING, like, you could hear her in all corners of the store, and likely outside as well. By "hear her," I mean, her screams pierced your eardrums no matter where you were in the store. And the mom only held the child in her arms and attempted to soothe her. Everyone I crossed paths with exchanged eye rolls and exasperated looks with me. WTF is such a goddamned important purchase at VALUE VILLAGE that you feel you have a right to subject 100 other customers to top-of-the-lungs SCREAMING by your child??? Put down the $6 overpriced piece of junk that somebody else threw away, and GET THE FUCK OUT OF THE STORE UNTIL YOUR CHILD CALMS DOWN!!!!!! I'm sure the store would even hold it for you. Just to get you the fuck out.

Seriously. I have not even one tiny little piece of human empathy for this mom. That's just fucking rude, selfish, and obnoxious.

OTOH, it was just one more confirmation that my decision not to have kids was absolutely right for me. Ugh.
treehugger
So. I just got a CLASSIC facebook status update, from a mommy to be...

"Baby preparations!! We baught a bassinet and a breast pump today!!! : )"

ROFLMAO!!!
angie_21
Oh I love this board! I just had a traumatizing experience at a 3-year-old's birthday party yesterday and sooo need to vent a bit. We were the only couple who showed up sans-child, but we did want to go because they are all my sweetie's best friends (and how annoying is it that all his best friends are breeding? ugh. but anyways...) but it was very awkward. Everyone had at least 2 babies/toddlers, and there were 2 sets of twins, and all the parents were just so exhausted and unhappy looking. I mean, I am working 2 jobs right now and feel like crap, but I didn't feel half as tired as everyone else looked. And I kinda felt unwelcome for the first time.

All my sweetie's friends were standing around holding babies and they looked at him and joked, "where's yours?" and I took the opportunity to back away slowly.... It felt weird because all the girls asked me how school is going and I told them about going back to grad school and doing fieldwork and they were very sweet and supportive, but also kinda sad because some of them have told me about how much they want to go back to school and move up in their careers, but now they can't. Then I went out with my friends last night, we turned off the lights for earth hour and sat around a campfire (I know, smoke isn't earth friendly lol) and stayed up until 1 am and it was awesome.

I agree so much about the feminism stuff. I've been hearing about motherhood taking over women's rights topics as well. and it seems to me any focus on children being "women's" territory only sets women's rights back. I can't believe how much I see my friends with children taking so much of the work and responsibility, and setting their careers back, while their husbands still get to be the good ol' boys who might lost some sleep and lose some of their financial independence, but still give up so much less than their wives. I've seen 2 girls give up on their grad school thesis (that they've paid thousands for!) for their kids while their husband goes off to work, barely affected. Now I've also seen a few stellar equal partnerships, but how can they be so rare? How can men I otherwise really respect let this happen to their wives? Or is it, how can women I really respect give themselves up like this? Maybe I'll just never understand until I have a child myself (aHAHAHAH *sarcastic laughter*)

On a semi-related topic, Women's rights have plummetted in Canada since Harper became PM

KW, I have been using fertility awareness too. What I've learned is, I'm not very fertile. But anyways, I agree with you so much about the responsibilities of birth control. And it is still usually women who will suffer most of the economic, physical, and social consequences when unplanned pregnancies happen. I know 2 girls who got pregnant in LTR's completely by accident, and the damn guy just picked up and disappeared (or in one case, cheated on her while she was pregnant and left befor the baby turned 1). I feel very lucky to have a supportive boyfriend who always was appreciative wthat I was sacrificing my health while I was on the pill, and is 100% cooperative now that we are back to barrier methods. But I shouldn't feel lucky for that, it should be normal!
sybarite
Re. the rise of 'motherism', I thought this was interesting. The author being interviewed, a French philosopher and mother of 3, is clearly speaking from a position of privilege, but she makes some good points about the self-imposed 'tyranny' of motherhood--including the (forgotten) observation that devices such as the washing machine had a serious impact on freeing women from domestic tyranny. All these organic diapers and homemade baby food mean a lot more work...

(Of course, as ever in these articles, the fathers are invisible.)

Also, I have made a point of not attending kiddy birthday parties; some lovely friends of ours don't even invite us anymore, as I think they know we're not into it. They have developed a great strategy IMO of socialising separately with their parenting and childfree friends.
koffeewitch
I don't know syb; this woman oughta be the posterchild of Big Corporations everywhere. I mean TRUE fulfillment cannot possibly be found in bonding with another being but with shopping, self-absorption and instant gratification, right? Personally I find that most mammalian animals do the things they do for their young because they feel a natural inclination driven by profound love.
And I think her ideas of what's "easier" are crazy. Why would I want to get my ass out of a warm cozy bed to warm up a baby formula bottle when I can just roll over, give the baby a tit and fall back to sleep. (Oh, and did I mention you can EAT anything you want while breastfeeding and not gain weight? The only time of my life I can eat 4000 calories if I feel like it and the baby sucks it all off of me). She can have her bottles of formula and her paid help if she wants (feminism is about women making their own choices, after all).
But I'm happy to enjoy my days reading great novels while nursing the baby, flying kites and coloring the parking lot with sidewalk chalk next to the kids. It's my partner that works the high-stress, low-pay, miserable job that I feel sorry for these days. Of course the right to be a wage slave without a union has never felt like feminism to me.

(Later) Wow. The more I think of that article the more I think it irks me. It's like it's not our shallow, throw-away, consumer-driven, youth-obsessed culture that is the problem. And it's not marketers and advertising that manipulates us, it's our babies?
angie_21
I agree that I can see the many possible corporate connections the woman might have. But I also agree with some of what she says. Because I want a career, and like my line of work, and because it doesn't pay enough for me to afford many conveniences, I feel like I have to choose in my life between career and children. And when it comes down to it, part of it IS because of this cult of motherhood thing that's been growing over the last decade. so much emphasis is put on all the things mothers must do to keep their baby safe and healthy, and a lot of them are totally limiting and demand extra time spent at home and with the child. home made baby food? yikes. home schooling seems to be so popular now too, but shouldn't the kid be going to daycare and learning to socialize? Who says time away from the parents is all that bad? so much focus on motherhood and not enough on fatherhood still leaves all the burden on the woman, too, and I feel that I would fall behind in my career, probably have to abandon it, if I had children.

I know what you mean about the so-called freedom to become a worker bee though. If I wasn't set out for an academic career, I'd rather stay home and raise a familiy than work for the man. And I just can't accept any truth behind the claim that formula is freeing. That's what breast pumps and bottled mama milk are for, right?
sybarite
I don't agree with everything she says at all: I can't get behind promoting formula either and I don't agree with shipping kids off to boarding school before they even hit double figures. I do agree that motherhood (as opposed to parenthood) has been highjacked and exaggerated as a practice and activity. Mothers are under insane scrutiny, which puts pressure on them to make perfect decisions. The pressure to breastfeed for example is huge and causes a lot of women who can't unnecessary emotional pain.

Meanwhile fathers and fatherhood are virtually ignored in media coverage (as are working class people, except when low-income mothers are being blamed for feeding their kids crap). I see the impact this has on my mister who is a father; it makes him justifiably angry.

Koffee, our capitalist culture has commodified motherhood too--why else are people spending hundreds on a stroller?
koffeewitch
You guys are right-on, there is an incredible amount of stress on mothers (never fathers) to be perfect. There is incredible stress for women to "do it all" and balance work and family life, yet still be a charming perfect hostess or sexy trophy wife as the situation dictates. And oh, my god is there ever an insane advertising market for pregnancy and babies. You *need* a maternity tank top that you will only wear for 3 months of your life, etc. And your baby NEEDS the ridiculous designer baby clothes that are worn once, then outgrown!

But IMHO, the DIY movement is a great boon to motherhood. I could mash up a banana myself and have jars worth of baby food for 15 cents or I could pay 90 cents for an itty bitty jar of baby bananas that is at least half water. I swear to you, making baby food is a snap. You steam the food and mash it with a fork or use a hand held grinder. I keep a few jars of baby food in the pantry for convenience when I'm too busy to cook or on the road, etc. But generally, I grind up some food for the baby at the same time I'm cooking dinner. Really, don't let anyone convince you it's difficult or even time consuming.

I have done a complete 180 degree flip on a lot of these issues. When I was in my twenties, I would not have been caught dead knitting socks, or sewing a dress or baking brownies. I felt like these were tasks meant to sap the time and energy of intelligent women and keep them from doing something better and more worth while with their time and talents. Then when I began to see how we have become a sickly, obese nation that no longer recognizes real, whole foods in our quest for super-processed, chemical crap meant to be microwaved in a box I realized I wanted something different. And if I wanted whole, natural foods and a healthy body, I would have to learn to cook. That was the starting point to my painstaking acquisition of skills that were second nature for our great-grandmothers but a real bitch for me. I now see these things as self-sufficiency and even as revolutionary in a fuck corporate capitalism and make your own damn shit sort of way.

All this reminds me that this workplace vs. home life is a modern issue. Until very recently there was no separation between the two. The home was a place where men and women produced the things that sustained them and they sold the excess, or provided services for hire. We have made our professional way of life very linear and male-oriented so as NOT to accommodate the cycles of nature or women. Or really, anything human or humane. When I see the options for women placed before me an alarm bell goes off in my head. I think these options look terribly contrived. I wonder if women should throw these limiting or impossible/perfectionistic models out and start imagining something better for ourselves.

spot-on
a recent article on childfree living brought to my attention recently

http://www.grist.org/article/2010-03-30-gi...e-and-im-proud/
faerietails2
*pulls down all the cobwebs*

quick vent: i hate how you can't even say one goddamn sarcastic remark about smug parents without it being suggested that you're thoughtless/selfish and hate parents/children/women/mothers. it's bullshit, and i'm sick of it.
spot-on
I'd just like to say that last week one of my dogs was diagnosed with Congestive Heart Failure and actually had some nice comments rather than the "well it's not like it's your child or anything" kwim? People actually THINKING before they speak/type for a change, a very welcome change!
spot-on
This reminds me of the "pregnant women are smug" song/video! Damn I love that song!


QUOTE(faerietails2 @ Jun 2 2010, 12:54 PM) *
*pulls down all the cobwebs*

quick vent: i hate how you can't even say one goddamn sarcastic remark about smug parents without it being suggested that you're thoughtless/selfish and hate parents/children/women/mothers. it's bullshit, and i'm sick of it.

koffeewitch
QUOTE(spot-on @ Jun 3 2010, 01:16 PM) *
I'd just like to say that last week one of my dogs was diagnosed with Congestive Heart Failure and actually had some nice comments rather than the "well it's not like it's your child or anything" kwim? People actually THINKING before they speak/type for a change, a very welcome change!


I, of course do have human children, but my animal companions are also like my children. And YES, when your dear, beloved pet is ill or dying it IS, IS, FUCKING IS, like your child. Love is love.

Last weekend, my cat snuck out and returned to the house with a 5 day old, featherless, helpless, baby sparrow in his teeth. I spent the next 12 hours tryng to feed that baby bird every 15 to 30 minutes and keep him warm and hydrated until he died (after which I was and am still really sad and devastated). I've noticed that there are just two kinds of people when it comes to animals, those that "get" the bond between humans and pets, and those that don't really care for animals at all. Those in the latter category are entitled to feel the way that they do...but when the rest of us are grieving over a lost or ill pet, they should have the courtesy to keep their comments to themselves.
(((((((spot-on))))))))
This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.
Invision Power Board © 2001-2014 Invision Power Services, Inc.