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pollystyrene
I had this very realistic dream last night that I had a baby (I didn't give birth in the dream, it was when the kid was a couple of months old) and while the kid had a good disposition, my boyfriend was a pain in the ass to deal with- he kept nearly dropping the kid, putting him on the edge of tables, chairs, etc., putting him near things he could get into. Yeah, somehow I don't think that's too far off from what it would really be like!

P.S. May I recommend an earplug? These are the best! I know the pink thing's pretty cheesy, and it sounds like a gimmick, but I really do have small ear canals and it was really hard to get ear plugs in sometimes. Also, these are made out of a smoother, softer foam, so they don't feel as rough!
obelix
Gah! Pollystyrene- it amazes me that kids survive past age ten. I couldn't handle the stress. My 5-year-old brother has a grey and dead front tooth because last year he just fell down a flight of stairs and landed on his face! Kids are always one step away from chopping of a limb or puncturing an organ.

I'm okay with accidentally maiming myself, but how the hell does a parent deal with the knowledge that there's a decent chance that she'll do that to another person?
ginger_kitty
Why oh why don't some parents control thier effing kids in public? Mr. G. Kitty and I went out for a quiet breafast this morning, first we got held up at the door because there was family w/5 kids blocking the entance. Apparently one of the kids was running up to the door and managed to smash his had into it. Then the mom felt like the whole world had to stop so she could console him. She literally crouched down holding him right in front of the door so no one could pass. And he was way to old to be babying the she was. She kept glancing up at me like I could relate to her or something, I could honestly care less about her momma drama.

So we finally make it in and get seated then the rotten little boy behind my hubby was crawling all over the booth and constantly elbowing him in the back. Sorry about the rant.....
lucizoe
Oh, ginger_kitty, I feel your pain. Mr.Luci and I went to the zoo today. Saturday, yes, I know, bad judgement, but we can't do it during the week. oh.my.cod.

I wish I had elbow-checked the heads of the little boys who grabbed my ass in an attempt to squeeze in front of a bat exhibit. Their male handler just giggled, shook his head and said "Kids!" all comrade-like, like I'm supposed to agree with him Um, no, sir. You're lucky I didn't crack your kids in the eye.

And the yelling and the pushing and the general ill-behaved natures of both kids and parents. Yuck. That is why I avoid the world most times.
ginger_kitty
lucizoe, I am the same way. But then when I come out of my little cocoon, the world seems so strange.

Today, a girl a work showed me a pic of her son sleeping of the couch and it was kinda cute, so I commented, 'Awe how cute'. But then we jsut stood there staring at the pic and I had nothing else to say. I was thinking 'What do you want from me!?!?

And I hate it when people show me pics of ugly babies. I don't want to me rude but I don't want to lie about the baby being adorable. It sends me into a panic searching for something nice to say like 'oh look at those cute shoes'...
treehugger
LOL...ginger kitty..I have to say I am BAD...

When you were talking about what to say when somebody shows you a picture of an ugly baby, the first thing that popped into my head was "Oh, my goodness, she DOES have your eyes, doesn't she?"

Heh.

I'm so evil.
treehugger
So.

My surgery is scheduled for this Thursday. And friends will be over that night (I'm supposed to have a babysitter the first night) and, so, several friends will be over. With pizza. So I had to go shopping today for "post tubal" clothes.

It's hard to find something that looks like it won't hurt...that isn't all frumpy. Heh.

I think I found something though. Egads, I've gained weight though.

Way too much beer lately I guess.
deschatsrouge
When people ask me why I'm not having kids I tell them I want to save child protective services a trip to my house. Why have kids when I know they'll be taken away?

Kids are loud, smelly, and dirty and besides I have three other sibilings to procreate, I am delegating baby making responsibility to them. My brother will probably have enough kids for all of us. I think I will be the distant crazy aunt who sends them fetal pigs and dissection guides for Christmas

I think that having your tubes tied is not a bad idea, I don't have to worry about it, I'm not married to a man.
ginger_kitty
Saving CPS a trip, hahahaha! :-)
turbojenn
Tree - This thursday - wowza! Time flies!! I hope you can hang out in some comfy loose yoga pants with a drawstring all weekend, and just get pampered by your friends and celebrate your freedom from procreation!

Turboman's getting a little nervous that I keep bringing up wanting to get a tubal. Ah, well, I'll make a firm decision sometime in the next couple years, and honestly, its not up to him. If I don't want kids, I'm not going to have them, and I won't be convinced.
pollystyrene
Is a tubal just an arthroscopic surgery, treehugger? Just wondering how invasive it is. Everyone I know has had it done after they've had a c-section, so they're all opened up.
treehugger
Pollystyrene, I am told that it will be just a small incision in or near the belly button. Like a half inch or so. And sometimes an instrument is inserted into the vagina to maniupulate the uterus around. THAT part sounds invasive to me, LOL.

The word used in some of the literature they gave me was "laparoscopy" if that means anything.

I had a previous abdominal surgery as a child (hernia) so there's a chance there will be too much scar tissue in the way and he will have to make a bigger incision or a second one. But if everything goes normally it'll be just really tiny.

deschatsrouge, you are funny! I'd pay money to go see you if you were a stand-up comic! :-)
lucizoe
woot, treehugger!

and woot mr.luci! he just called me from his doctor's appointment...apparently come next Thursday his vas deferens shall be clipped and he shall be permanently childfree!

(and I shall walk bow-legged for weeks after we get the all clear)
ginger_kitty
Only a few more days, treehugger, I bet your giddy with excitement!

I am green w/ jealousy, luzicoe. But yay!!:-)
maddy29
Yay for tubals! Yay for iud's!!! I'm LOVING my mirena IUD. IT's sooo cool. I keep wanting to tell everyone about it, like at the bus stop and stuff. I keep wanting to tell people I am not fertile-I can't have kids!!! It's the best feeling, really. I've spent so much time worrying about accidentally getting pregnant or somehow just ending up with a kid. Now I'm freeeeeeeeee!!!!!

I babysat all day on sunday, for 2 different families. It was so fun, this fat little baby took a nap in a pouch on me, and he was just so sweet. But still no "oooh, i want this." It was more like oh,I wish I could see this cute baby everyday for like, an hour maybe. I really really LOVE kids and think they are so funny and weird. I just don't want my own.

It's strange, I didn't realize what a life-changing event this would be. I feel so different and more confident in my choices. I don't feel like I have to explain why I'm not having kids or anything.
doodlebug
"When people ask me why I'm not having kids I tell them I want to save child protective services a trip to my house."

I am so totally stealing that.
treehugger
ginger kitty, I AM giddy. I am "fourteen year old girl with a crush on a sixteen year old guy and he just said "hi" and winked at me" giddy. I'm high school graduation giddy. I'm "turning legal to drink" giddy. I'm "wedding day" giddy.

And it's weird that nobody gets it except you guys. :-)
doodlebug
treehugger, when I got my cat spayed, I bragged to everyone that she was "free forever from the tyranny of motherhood."

Nobody but busties ever got it.
misspissed
rock ON, treehugger.
i'd love details on the surgery, when you are up to it.

i think i am gonna consider a tubal at some point, just to have that total fucking freedom.

funny. i had a convo with my roommate regarding the sprogging, and her thoughts are that she will regret not having a child. i on the other hand, feel like i will regret having children. i just don't want to end up bitter, pissed off, and resentful that i had kids -- i have totally random plans for the rest of my life (which hopefully include loads of travelling) and feel like a child just won't fit into that properly. not like i have to justify anything on this thread, but the more i think about it, the more reasons i come up with on the negatory side.

2 sides of the coin, eh.
cloverbee
I probably would have a tubal but then you still have to think about STD's unless you are in a long-term relationship w/ someone you trust and that scares the shit out of me as much as having kids.
treehugger
Oh, yeah, cloverbee, there's still the STD thing. I'm in a long term relationship with a guy I trust *okay, mostly* but in ten years he hasn't given me reason to worry. And birth control has worked well. It's just the random rape thing and the Bill Napoli stuff going on that wigs me out. Not to mention, yup, FREEDOM! :-)

So, I was given some VERY, VERY good advice by my guy, by the way. He suggested that I call the day before the surgery and have them prescribe the pain medication early so I can pick it up TODAY, rather than picking it up tomorrow after surgery which would have happened. He's so right. Who in the hell wants to wait in a long pharmacy line immediately after surgery, still woozy from anesthesia? This way I should be able to go straight home and get relaxed. So I'm going to be picking up supplies today.

Am I boring you with mundane details or is this okay? I'm not sure how much you guys want to know about the whole process...because I was given a list of things to have on hand for after and stuff and I don't know if you want to know that much or not. Yup, I'm horrible at grammar, by the way.

MissPissed, one of the things about having kids that made me realize they have NO place in my life, was just thinking about school! There's registrations, vaccinations, school clothes, the fall school supplies list, the band practice, the soccer games, the teenage angst, the having to put two decent meals on the table every weekday and three every weekend day, just all the aggravation that I'd just rather not focus on. When would I ever have time to paint or make jewelry?
turbojenn
tree - feel free to bombard us with details!! You are my tubal-role-model, and whatever information you care to share here will most definitely help me consider when/if to get the tubes taken care of.

And good for you for stocking up on everything you need post-surgery - I don't like standing in pharmacy lines on a normal day, let alone post surgery!
treehugger
Well, I found out I have to go in at 6:30 AM. They are prescribing Vidoden. Has anybody ever taken that?
raskel
Sorry this is off topic, and maybe belongs in the wedding thread, but I just told my parents that Mr. Raskel and I don't want children at our wedding (with the exception of my 6, 10 and 14 year old brothers) and they freaked out. My mom told me that I was being ridiculous, unreasonable, and that nobody was going to come to my wedding.
maddy29
Treehugger-yes, details please! This is something I'll probably do sometime down the road (I'm 29) so I'm very interested in hearing all about your experience. My thoughts will be with you tomorrow (well, not at 6:30 am cause I'll be asleep).

That's a great idea about getting everything set up before you go in. WHen i got my IUD, I puked up my guts afterwards, and when I got home I didn't have ginger ale and crackers. I didn't expect to feel that way. So, whatever you can do to prepare your home is great.

Also, that giddy feeling-I hvae that too ever since I got my IUD. I know yours is permanent, so it's probalby even MORE exciting!!!!! FREEEEEEDOM baby!

How long is the surgery?
maddy29
raskel- my family would flip out too, because there are so many kids, and everyone would have to get a babysitter, etc. Why do you not want kids there? What kind of wedding is it goingn to be? I mean, it's your wedding so you can do whatever you want, ya know?
kjhink
treehugger, I haven't taken vicodin personally. However, one of my closest friends is a pharmacist and it is his post-procedure painkiller of choice (as opposed to codeine or whaterver). Some people (my boyfriend) also experience a sort of low-level euphoria on it, so I think you'll be good to go.

Your doctor did you good.
raskel
Just a very small wedding, less than 100 people (and there's 10 in my nuclear family). There's tons of kids in my family, and they're all obnoxious and loud. There will be temper tantrums every 10 minutes, and I wouldn't doubt something will be set on fire. We just want to enjoy our day with our family and a couple close friends. No kids, so everyone can relax and have a good time.
sybarite
Raskel, I think you're absolutely right and I'm going to argue for the same thing for our wedding. State it politely as non-negotiable, and maybe claim the small size of the wedding as the reason? I wouldn't mention your opinion of the kids themselves, just say it will be hard to fit everyone in as it is.

The parents (of the kids) can figure out for themselves if they want to attend, or if they can. Some may not be able to, but other parents might sneakily see it as a break from their kids for a weekend. People may have problems getting people to look after the rug rats for a weekend, but honestly: that's not your problem. Good luck!
msgoofball
raskel, if the kids are family and not friend's kids, why not hire a couple of sitters for a few hours and have them nearby but not nearby...ya know? that way the parents can come(not have to worry about childcare) and actually have a good time enjoying your day with you and you can relax not hearing tantrums. just hearing stories of how davy does the funniest things when he...nah i won't go there.. hehehe just a thought.
raskel
I actually did plan to have a sitter pick up my brothers after we've had dinner. I know my step mom would love a night of drinking and dancing and being away from the kids. Not to mention that the boys would probably be bored by then anyway. I would extend the babysitting offer if there was a real need, for example an important family member that really can't find other arrangements. My mom is just so pissed about it. She's telling me I wont get as many gifts...well, with the money I'll save not feeding an extra 50 people [kids], I can buy my own gifts!
lucizoe
raskel, stick to your guns. it's your day and especially if you and mr.raskel are paying for it all, who you invite is your business. And that's how it should be.

If you send invitations, be very clear that the invitation is only for the people listed...like on the RSVP card for Ms. Amy and Mr. Bert Whosiwhatsit only give them the option of accepting for a total of 2 people. But don't mention the possibility of a free babysitter on the invite, 'cause then you'll wind up paying for the 50 extra people in babysitting fees.

I wish people didn't have to go through this when planning weddings. It's like, hello? If an invitation is for you and hubby, it is for you and hubby. Not you + hubby + sprog + sprog's toys and noise. Bleh.

I'm sorry your mom is being so pissy about this. How exactly does it hurt her? Jeebus.

(I don't plan on getting married, unless we wind up having to...for insurance purposes. If we ever did do a big commitment party type thinger, though, I'm not inviting people's kids either. For one thing, I am not friends with their kids, I'm friends with them. For another, I don't want to have to watch my language at my party. I don't want my party to become a "let's all coo over so-and-so's new slobbery baby" event. Etc. I'd like to think my parents, both teachers, would welcome the no-kids rule, even if my mom is still reeling over news of mr.luci's impending snippage).

good luck, raskel!

ETA - This might be helpful
cloverbee
raskel, the whole idea behind childfree by choice is so you don't have to deal w/ kids. You should not have to deal w/ other people's kids either. I think people feel that it's okay to take kids to a wedding b/c they equate wedding w/ family. WRONG! I certainly won't have kids at my wedding either (if that ever happens). It's YOUR day and you can have it however you like!
maddy29
Raskel- yes, you should be able to have a grown-up wedding with no kids screaming, running around, knocking over the cake, etc. I agree with whoever said to make it VERY clear that the kids aren't invited. maybe the invitation can say something about adults-only, or leave the kids home this weekend and come party! or something very direct. i betcha some people bring their kids anyways.....
sybarite
See, clearly I'm evil, but I don't even think the bride and groom should be responsible for those extra arrangements such as on-site sitter etc etc. It's an extra task and extra expense, and is bound to be accompanied by further stress caused by parents unhappy with the arrangements made.

We're not close to anyone who has kids so obviously I'm uninformed on what they might need in terms of wedding childcare. But why should I be informed? Their kids, their responsibility, end of.

*waits for pelting to begin*
raskel
luci, thank you! that link has lots of suggestions. Maybe if people show up with their kids anyway, I'll make them pay for having to extend my sitting services that are being provided for my brothers. I think thats fair considering I will be making it clear that they aren't invited. It's my day, and I don't want to deal with screaming kids.
treehugger
With regards to kids at weddings, I had a couple cousins, I think they were 14 or so, who had absolutely no interest in coming but they volunteered to do childcare in a different room. It was a win-win situation in that case...free childcare, these two cousins didn't have to go sit still in a church and watch all that emo mushy stuff, and the kids got to play and wear off their energy.

Okay, details regarding the tubal: I feel better now! I wasn't sure just exactly how detailed to get. My shopping list of things they told me I should have on hand:

Thermometer (to check for fever in case of infection)
Two microwaveable/refrigerateable heat/ice packs (start out with cold then switch to hot
Pain killers
Menstrual pads (I guess you bleed for a couple weeks and they don't want you to use any internal stuff to prevent possible infection)
Throat lozenges (breathing tube gives you a sore throat sometimes)
Loose clothing
Good books to read or videos to watch

And then bland foods in case the anesthesia upsets the stomach:
oatmeal, rice, bread, fruit, yogurt, soup, saltines, ICE CREAM, :D

I am told I'll be going home between 10:00 and 11:30 AM. I have to be there at 6:30 AM. I'm not sure how long of that is recovery time. They won't let you leave until you pee, for some reason. I was also told: no makeup, no hairspray, no jewelry. And, they said it'd be a good idea, since I live alone, to make sure my day-to-day chores like laundry are all done ahead so I can just rest for several days.
msgoofball
i loved that link...but i bypassed all that wedding day hoo hoo by eloping. but even then, my nephews made it to that..but i was surprised anyone made it. hehehe the reception was another matter...but even then i don't recall alot of kids there. we had a room set up with toys and they just played in there...
deschatsrouge
It mnakes me angry that doctors second guess yound women who want thier tubes tied. I know women who have been turned down for the proceedure b/c they were too young. All I have to say is that if the doctor REALLY knew these women he would not be able to schedual the proceedure soon enough.
lucizoe
word, deschatsrouge

mr.luci went for a doctor's appointment yesterday. His first appointment with this doctor in a new city and the man is getting his vasectomy done by same doctor next freaking week. I guarantee you I would not be able to walk into a brand new gynecologist's office and have the same thing happen.
deschatsrouge
I feel like men are allowed to make that choice and it won't be questioned. Whereas women have to defend themselves when they decide not to reproduce. I hate the idea of having to beg a doctor to get my tubes tied, and then he gets to make the choice about if it happens or not.
maddy29
lucizoe-just out of curiosity-how old is your man?
msgoofball
i have decided to get an IUD. its covered under my plan (thus far) and i ain't no spring chicken. i better go make an appt and see what grief i get.
deschatsrouge
My partner and I both have a fear of commitment ceremonies. I say elope an screw the selfish people who go to weddings for the food. They can kiss off. The ceremony is not what's important it's the quality of the marriage (which will be better without kids).
missladyj
I highly recommend elopement! we got married in Las Vegas, then came back and threw a party. I got two outfits one for vegas, one for the party both fabulous
lucizoe
hi maddy!

mr.luci will be 29 the day before his vasectomy...older than me by five years and two weeks
treehugger
Oh, deschatsrouge, I didn't have to *beg*. I think (although I have to disclose living in a very "liberal" city), but I think especially once you get in your thirties, they're pretty accepting of it. He did go through the whole "you know that it is permanent and I have to advise you that if there is any chance you might change your mind, not to do this"...but I didn't see that as condescending like that. I guess I don't know what they ask men about that.

lucizoe, did they give your guy any disclaimers like that? You know, the whole, "you know this is permanent and don't do it if you really don't want it" thing? Just curious...

Oh, and with regards to being able to walk into a brand new doctor's office and request sterilization...I did exactly that. See, a tubal is a lot more involved than a vasectomy physically and I had always gone for my pelvic exams and stuff, just to my regular doc. But for the tubal they told me I had to go to an OBGYN. That's fine, I understand, it's a surgical procedure now.

Anyway, a little different situation because I've lived in this city for sixteen years, but this was the first time I saw an OBGYN. And the first appointment was the consult for the tubal. And all that entailed was him telling me that if I wasn't sure, not to do it..and then he just answered all the questions I had. (which, I had a lot of them!)

He required only one other appointment which was a physical exam and pap smear. And that was it! Tubal will be tomorrow. I didn't find it difficult at all...rather it was pretty easy. I mean, having to do the physical exam (which I totally agree with, by the way,) sounds to me like the only difference between me and what mr. Luci had.
ginger_kitty
We got married at the local courthouse and it was wonderful!!! It was just my hubby and I. The day was all about us, which is how it should be. If we had invited friends and family, I would have pulled my hair out. (Actually, my head was shaved when we tied the knot, you know what I mean though.)

Raskel it is your day, make it however you want and don't feel bad. :-)
treehugger
So. It's 3:30 AM and I can't sleep. I'm too keyed up. I would kill for a cup of coffee, but no foods or liquids. Three hours of fertility left!

I got to thinking I should have gotten one of those tee shirts that shows a coat hanger with the big red circle and the line through it, to wear on my way out. Hee.
turbojenn
((((((treehugger safe surgery))))))

Hope all is going well.....hope to hear from you later!

So, it seems a lot of my time this year is spent in the joyous anticipation of the birth of friends' babies....waiting to hear of treehugger's surgery is *just* as exciting!! Today, we wait for one of our own to be forever childfree!!
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