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ms.gb
ditto on what maddy said....i would have paid money to see that guys face, ginger kitty....hehehe

in a tiny high voice "its got me! the ring has got me! oh noooooooo!' heheheheh

as i sit here and try to balance my checkbook (which ain't happening), i am just dumbstruck in the idea of 'oh you'll make ends meet' when people hear i can't afford kids. uh no...i really can't afford them...the time, energy, let alone the money invested in their well being....nope..not in my budget...and that's ok!
deschatsrouge
totally ms.gb I can barley keep myself alive I can't even imagine trying to kep a sprog alive.
ginger_kitty
flying frog, that gym thing would drive me nuts! I love my gym!!! They have seperate changing rooms for families, and kids are not allowed in the other locker rooms. There is a daycare for wee ones and a seperate area for kids and juniors to work out in. smile.gif They consider having kids running around with adults and adult equipment a safety issue and a hinder to the adults. I adore them for thier policies!!
flyingfrog
ginger - right, I know! it's not just annoying to have kids racing around the fitness room, it's dangerous. they could get their arm caught in something, or they could trip someone!

polly - you're right, I was typing fast, what I meant by 'accident' was if the ring slipped out during sex (it can happen, but I'm told it's pretty rare). if it did, though, I might worry. it does release hormones steadily, like the pill, but also causes the mucous around your cervix to get thick and turn to a pH that spermies can't survive in. so it's really really really awesome and effective. however, in some cases it can weasel its way out while you're gettin' it on and even though the odds are low I... am paranoid.

I dunno. today I was talking with a very cool friend (she has no kids either, no plans for 'em), and she happened to say something about how much she digs kids in general, and I had another moment where I wondered what, exactly, is the chemical or gene or setting that I lack. because while I make an effort to tolerate kids when they belong to my friends and relatives, I don't LIKE them. I don't have positive feelings about them. I just try not to have too many negative feelings about them when politeness dictates it. I see them on the street and instinctively step away. today I saw a super-preggers lady pushing a stroller with a one-year-old in it and even though she looked perfectly content I just felt kinda repulsed and sorry for her.

lately I've been wondering if certain women have always felt this way. I mean, were there women 200 years ago who were turning out the kids like they were supposed to because there simply were no other options? these days our relatives may chide us, but the fact is it's not unheard of for women to stay childfree; I know many who have, and it's not really that big a deal. I wonder if having so many other options gave rise to, or encouraged, a desire to not reproduce. or is it just that the desire was always there, and now we can better act on it?

hmmm. I dunno. but I better get off the internet, I have a casserole in the oven (not a euphemism! actual casserole!).
deschatsrouge
I was at an academic lecture last night and this woman I know brought her kids. They were well behaved but who brings their kids to an academic lecture?
thepointybird
Flyingfrog - I feel exactly as you described! I just can't be bothered with children at all. I can fake it with the best of them when a friend or relative is sticking their child in my face, but I genuinely wouldn't care if I never encountered a child ever again. They mostly just piss me off in one way or another. A very rare few of them are cute, but don't inspire the same reaction in me that say a cute puppy does. I think Margaret Cho put it best when she said "I look at children and I feel nothing. I ovulate sand".
maddy29
I think I'm a big freak smile.gif Cause I love babies and little ones. I totally dig my cousins and they crack me up. I smile at babies and little ones and talk to them on the bus sometimes. I just don't want my own. I love babysitting so I can see my favorite little dude. He calls me his "loving person." So cute! I reallly love holding babies and doing that annoying baby talk. Maybe that's why I confuse people so much? It's like, if you like babies and kids, people assume that you want one of your own.
lucizoe
I don't like them once they start talking, but I do like babies. It's the same thing as loving puppies and kittens and baby chimps and thinking baby snakes are adorable...I put human babies in the same category. However, I DO want a puppy and kittens and would lurrrrve to hold a baby chimp...

Speaking of puppies, there was a screaming toddler in a stroller on my train yesterday, and a woman with a puppy sitting on her lap. Guess which one merited most of the attention and coos and admiration? That's right - the puppy! Take that, children! She was so adorable, looking at everyone with wrinkly puppy face and too-big ears and that stick-straight tail most of them have for early puppyhood...

*melts into pile of puppy goo*

And also children-related, I will be very very happy when Tom Cruise and his fembot and spawn melt into oblivion. Oh yes I will. I am sick to death of the celebrity baby craze and "bump" watch and Britney Spears, et.al. What happens when Mommy's Little Accessory grows up?
thepointybird
Haha Lucizoe, what normally happens when Mummy's Little Accessory grows up is that they turn into the kind of rude, uppity, over-indulged, coke-fiend nightmare wildchild who would put most people off having kids in the first place. I know what you mean - for example, when do you EVER read an interview with a young starlet when she isn't banging on about how she just can't WAIT to be a mama? Even if she's like 21 years old! Fuck, I just long for the day when a famous woman says "you know what? Childbirth and breastfeeding don't really appeal to me. I'd rather travel the world at leisure and do loads of good work for charity, and die fulfilled and happy". But it ain't gonna happen until the world at large wakes up and realises that women are not just brat-factories.
flyingfrog
actually, I read an interview with rachael ray where she said something very similar to that - like, she got married recently so the interviewer was like "and when are you having kids" and she was like "well, I'm kind of busy with my cooking shows and magazine and a new talk show and books and traveling and playing with my dog and hanging out with my husband when I have a spare second, so there really isn't room in the agenda, and you know what, I'm perfectly happy with my life exactly as it is." (I'm paraphrasing, of course.)

I don't always dig ms. ray's uber-bubbly persona, and I don't always wanna eat what she cooks, but boy, I was stoked to hear a homey, wholesome, all-american celeb say something like that to the press.
doodlebug
Hmmm...I don't think I dislike kids, necessarily. I adore my BFF's girls, whom I've known since they were 5 and 6 respectively. (They're now in their last year of high school, yikes!)

I think my thing is that I don't have the energy for them for long periods of time. And also, I am a REAL demon about my privacy and personal space, and you totally lose that when you have kids.

When I was in my early '20s, I ran a small, unofficial "dayhome" out of my house (3 - 4 kids max), and that was enough of a cure for full-time parenting, for me. And I actually enjoyed a lot about the work! But I hated that you couldn't just walk away when you needed a break, and that you always have to be "present" and aware. And actually, it was HARDER on days when there were fewer kids, because they'd become more needy for attention, whereas when there are more kids, they can go play and fight and whatever. After doing it for nearly two years, I found myself feeling "on edge" most of the time, and I came to resent the kids themselves. I really think if I'd had my own kids, ones who didn't go away with another adult at the end of the day, I would have become neglectful AT BEST. Ugh.
ginger_kitty
Some kids I like, some kids I can't stand. Just like with adults I suppose, it depends on thier behavior and thier little budding personalties. But in general I am just not a kid person.

A friend recently commented she wouldn't mind leasing a kid like a car. You know take it some one else to get the diaper changes and handle the big stuff. And she could just sit back and enjoy the pluses of having a kid. Which made me chuckle. But I wouldn't even want that.
lucizoe
That whole no deposit, no return thing on kids is a big reason for me... the idea that I would be responsible for this tiny little life and no one would take it off my hands if it got to be too much...I would shake the shit out it, as I've said before...

...and I got engaged today *attentionwhore*, so I'm thinking about all the ways that people are going to be bringing up future kids now. I've never ever had to deal with those questions before, but I'm worried this will bring them out. I suppose I'll just ignore, or act completely shocked that someone would ask me something so personal.
kelkello
Congrats Luci on the engagement. Sorry about the myriad baby questions you will have to field in the future.

I'm a proud aunt, so I get lots of kid time with little responsibility. That's enough for me. My boyfriend has four daughters, and I get to see them often. I used to think we'd move in together soon, but last week I was hanging out and his daughters were fighting and the house was a mess, and I thought to myself, "Self, be glad you have your own place. Peace reigns there and you can eat what you want, sleep when you want, stare mindlessly when you want, masturbate when you want, etc." I decided the idea of moving in is far away in the future.

I was in my doctor's office a couple days ago and this child was screaming this one, loud, ear shattering note for about 3 minutes straight. It's mother just kept smiling and saying, "She's trying to talk!!" I don't want to become delusional like that.
pollystyrene
((shudder)) trying to talk my ass. She's going to wish she never considered that "talking"!

I have to go to a baby shower today. Eck. Wish me luck.
kelkello
Oh Polly! I'm so sorry about having to go to the baby shower. Is there anything more insipid than a baby shower? Even wedding showers aren't as bad. The stupid storks, the dopy game where you get a paper diaper and if yours has "poo" in it you get a prize. Who the f*ck thinks that "Find the Poo" is a fun game? Only a hormonal pregnant woman. And don't get me started on the "Awwwwwwww...that's so cute" that everyone utters after every tube of Desitin has been opened. If I ever have a baby, I'm holding my own baby shower and it will rock. And if anyone gets me a Winnie the Pooh diaper bag, I'll have to cut them.
katiebelle2882
oh my god CONGRATULATIONS LUCI!!!!!!!!!
ginger_kitty
Congrats, lucizoe!!!!

kelkello, "Awwwwwwww...that's so cute" that everyone utters after every tube of Desitin has been opened. Heee! I hate that too! I have no emotion towards baby stuff. The overzealous, ewwws and cooos at baby showers, kill me.

Goodluck with the shower polly! Take a few shots before you go. wink.gif
pollystyrene
It actually wasn't too bad- still one of the last things I want to get up early for on a Sunday, but there were no games, and the food was good. There was the waaaay-too-long opening of gifts, but Le Boy's mom was itching to get out of there because the football game was going to be on, so we got out of there immediately after the gifts were done.

Someone did get the mom-to-be some cute onesies- one said "Chicks Dig Me" and the other said, "I Party Naked". Then they got her a tank top that said, "Pregnant (Not Fat)" which was kind of stupid- not only sizeist, but the mom-to-be is 6 weeks away from her due date- there's no mistaking her for just being fat. Someone suggested they make a t-shirt that says "Fat (Not Pregnant)"....I'd totally buy that! I also want "i can't bear children" and see how many people get it.
girlygirlgag
QUOTE(maddy29 @ Sep 8 2006, 04:12 PM) *

I think I'm a big freak smile.gif Cause I love babies and little ones. I totally dig my cousins and they crack me up. I smile at babies and little ones and talk to them on the bus sometimes. I just don't want my own. I love babysitting so I can see my favorite little dude. He calls me his "loving person." So cute! I reallly love holding babies and doing that annoying baby talk. Maybe that's why I confuse people so much? It's like, if you like babies and kids, people assume that you want one of your own.



You are like me, maddy. Down with OPB other peoples' babies.
I am a sucker for baby head smell, but I have two step kiddies, and I really
never wanted kids of my own. Especially with my career.

deschatsrouge
One of my good friends came over last night, she is pregnant. She asked me what I though she should do for her baby shower. I told her she should have a baby shaped piniata filled with condoms that guests would hit with a stick.
maddy29
mmm, baby head smell smile.gif love it! love their little peach fuzz heads. yum.

deschat-love the pinata idea, fab! hee hee:)

re: "she's trying to talk!"- i swear, when some people have babies, they just go insane. screaming is not talking.

congrats to luci! smile.gif
ms.gb
omgoddess.....deschat....you.killed.me. bwahahahahaahahh!!!
thats awesome....i'm skilled in papermache...i'll get right on that...hhehehehe.

congrats luci! unfortunately, whoever notices/you tell will now inundate you with questions and crap. for that, i send condolences.

that pinata idea reminds me of another party i went to long ago....but it was filled with mini-bottles of alcohol, flavored lubes, and condoms....i guess it was more of a sex shop oriented pinata. of sorts.
katiebelle2882
that is so deliciously inappropriate and shock inducing to all the baby lovers out there that i almost want to do it at a baby shower. holy shite. awesome deschats
cloverbee
OMG you crack me up deschats.
kelkello
Deschats, quite possibly the best idea for a baby shower EVER. You should market those.
anarch
Some amusing comebacks to use on annoying people who insist on asking "So when are you going to have kids?"
faerietails
The "Not while Michael Jackson's still at large" one cracked me up!!! laugh.gif
deschatsrouge
I'm sticking with my "I'm saving family services a trip to my house".
humanist77
"I had 2 for breakfast-they were delicious!" hehe!

I love any of them having to do with eating/selling/buying children. As long as there is an element of evil : )

There was a very scary site that was linked through another site that was linked through this one-some religious wacko compiled a list of 101 reasons to *have* children-and not just to have them, but reasons to have MORE of them-as in, for one person to never STOP breeding. She must be Mormon.
ginger_kitty
I think I am going to start telling people that I was injured in a horrible car wreck when I was younger and left unable to have children. And my husband refuses to adopt b/c he could never love a child that wasn't his. And he would divorce me or something.

Or something else horrific to make them leave me alone. Like my parents were strict Bapist who didn't believe in having children out of wedlock so they forced me to have so many abortions before I was 18 that doctors say I am no longer able to concieve.
lucizoe
humanist, is that the list that includes shit like "it's an honor for the lord to use my womb again" ? all sorts of creepy, that. God wants your womb! Or at least, wants to rent it.
humanist77
yes, luci that is the list. I just find it so much more disturbing that her reasons are not even for having children to begin with, but for having multiple children-like there is no reason to not stop reproducing, because she knows that Jesus will provide. I'm curious to know how many that woman has!

There are reasons like 'It's just as easy to cook for one as it is for ten!' and, 'the more children we have, the more of an impact they will have on the world' (they SURE will) and a strange one-"We want to fill our quiver', and 'To prevent menses' and 'Babies are future dishwashers!' Most of the things she lists are the same statement in different words, and most of it just has to do with Jesus and how wonderful babies are.
kelkello
That's probably the freakiest site I've seen in a long time. You just know there are women all over Utah in flowered, lace trimmed dresses nodding their helmet heads and giving thanks for their "blessing" of 11 children.
cloverbee
okay, and if there is no god, you are left w/ one reason to have a child? to fill a seat in your fucking van???????????
doodlebug
"37. There is no occupation more rewarding than motherhood."

Um, how would she know? If all her time is spent parenting, she sure won't get a chance to try anything else.

"47. My children help me surrender the selfish desires of my flesh."

Translation: "I'm too tired to have regular sex anymore."

"78. There will be more people to pay for the aged's social security benefits."

"Which is good, because after giving up my career to raise all these children, I sure won't be getting any pension income!"

"93. Babies are a lot more entertaining than TV."

"....which is fortunate, because the cost of raising them meant our cable got cut off."
girlygirlgag
Reason 102:

As you keep having children, (who are more entertaining than reading books or about current affairs) More money saving opportunites arise, for you can replace the purchasing of toys and games with "try to catch mamas' fallopian tubes dragging behind her because of birthing too many babies and the natural pull of gravity!"
ms.gb
as one of the resident jack mormons, i checked out that article...they are definitely not mormon...and i find that article EXTREMELY scary....

*shudders* eek.
maddy29
gotta love this one:

Another baby in the family makes my other children so happy.

yeah right, tell that to my boyfriend, the 2nd of 11 kids-everytime his mom announced she was pregnant again, he'd run out and cry sad.gif

This one cracks me up too "Each child is an unbreakable bond between a father and mother." HAAAA HAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!!
martoocha
dear child-free by choice busties:

i was going thru the list of topics and found this one - i'm thrilled to see other busties going thru similiar emotions, as i. i knew ya'll wouldn't let me down. *smile*

i'm feeling pretty much the same as ya'll did at some point (read thru the entire thread), however, i did feel the tick of the baby clock about a year ago, then a close friend of mine got preggars and it went away VERY quickly.

i realized, i was viewing pregnancy & child rearing thru rose-colored glasses and when i started to see the reality of it, i wasn't sure it was for me or for mr. martoocha.

a good friend, who has a child, gave me the advice to start thinking about a future w/out any kids and see how i feel about it. would i feel OK with that? or would it bother me?

i can honestly say, so far, i've been OK w/ knowing that i might not ever become a parent, however, i'm starting to wonder if this selfishness will go away at some point and if when i realize it, it will be too late (have given thoughts to adoption and am happy that there is that option).

my brother & my sis-in-law recently had a baby and i'm wondering now if i'm feeling the curiosity for child bearing again because someone else has just recently gone through it or if its a true desire of mine.

mr. martoocha & i have had endless convos about having/raising kids and its never gotten to the point where either of us has made a definite decision any which way.

i guess what you said is true, turbojenn (from a very old post in this thread), it'll all work out the way its supposed to be. i just feel, we as women, have even more pressure since there is a clock-ticking (sorry for the pun here) where as men have all the time in world to procreate.

i'm still on the fence regardless...thanks for letting me vent and for the hilarious website w/ what to say to that boring question.

have a great weekend!

xo,
martoocha
ambercherry
"i can honestly say, so far, i've been OK w/ knowing that i might not ever become a parent, however, i'm starting to wonder if this selfishness will go away at some point and if when i realize it, it will be too late (have given thoughts to adoption and am happy that there is that option)."

i wouldn't call it selfishness, martoocha. i don't want to tell you how to label your feelings, but i think not wanting to have children or get pregnant doesn't mean you're selfish. but, again, i don't want this to come across as telling you how to feel.

i'm going through a lot of similar feelings, it sounds like. i was of the childfree stance until recently, and i have been thinking a lot about having a baby - and, like you, a lot of my friends are starting to have babies. so, i'm being inundated with babies and pregnancy.

that said - i really do admire the women in here for their decisions to remain childfree! smile.gif

and i love some of those answers in response to that "when are you having kids" question.

okay, i'm taking my childfree ass to bed...
cloverbee
martoocha, don't be so hard on yourself. it's okay to not want children for WHATEVER reason.
turbojenn
Martoocha, I think the real turning point for me, was allowing myself to be free from "the ticking clock." I've been with turboman for 12 years, and in the first, oh 8 years of our relationship, I always felt like "of course we'll have kids." And I felt that clock all the time, as if I only had until I was 30 to *live,* and then it was time to saddle down with some kids. Around my 26th birthday, I woke up, and said "screw that." Why should I be living with this imminent cloud over my head that means when I hit some artifical expiration date, what I want out of life gets put on hold.

And I've happily stayed in a position of just living my life in a way that I find enjoyable, and if that means with kids, fine. Without kids, fine. But as time passes, the more I enjoy my childfree status.

Now, the flipside of that is turboman, who, in some mild fashion, thinks that having kids might be a nice thing to do. At this very moment, he's babysitting for my 3.5 year old nephie and 1.5 year old niece, and he called me oozing with stories of cuteness, and I'm glad for that, but 12 hours of childcare just sounds exhausting to me.
tatiana
martoocha, men don't "have all the time in the world to procreate." There is plenty of scientific evidence that children fathered by older men have many more problems than those fathered by men in the "normal" fathering age group.

Sorry to butt in, but that idea is a pet peeve of mine. Men (including the scientists that do the studies and think up the questions) just like to think that their swimmers don't age. dry.gif
kelkello
Martoocha,

I know what you mean about feeling selfish. For me, the idea of having kids is freaky because I know how selfish I am with my time. I have a dog who takes up monumental amounts of time, and she doesn't even need me to change her diapers or help her with homework. I know if I had kids, I'd be a great mom. But knowing that doesn't mean I need to have kids. I'm dating a guy who has four daughters who live with him pretty much full time. He's had a vasectomy. I know that if he and I make it, I won't have my own kids. He wonders if that is okay. I think it is. He still is stuck in the idea that all women want babies. Frankly, I can't even see myself marrying him or even living with him until at least one of those kids is in college. It's only 3 years away *sigh* I used to think with the rosy glasses and think I could move in there and we'd be a happy family. Then I go over on a night when the girls are fighting and the house is a mess...then I'm tremendously grateful for my solitude and single girl, no kid life.
lucizoe
You know, when you think about it, either choice in this case is selfish, in the purest sense of the word, all moral considerations aside. I hate that for some reason those who decide their lives would be better sans children are believed to be selfish, while those who decided their lives would be better with children are not. In both cases, a person is deciding what makes THEIR life better. It's not like there are little dancing zygotes standing on street corners, just begging to born, and we are ignoring their heart-wrenching pleas. People have kids because they WANT them. Some people do not have kids because they WANT their free time and money to go to other things. No one is obligated to have kids, and in my experience, those who claim that you are obligated tend to have enormous martyr and superiority complexes.

How is one choice inherently more selfish than the other? I think (in the US) that this is another stupid holdover from the puritans, the fuckers - not devoting your life to something besides yourself, and preferably being miserable whilst doing so - is less worthy than living your life to make you happy. Personally, I think selfish is having more than one child, owning more than one car, taking long hot showers everyday, buying shit from Wal-Mart and other corporate monstrosities, not recycling anything, not being aware of a world outside your own bubble, supporting war-mongers and blindly bowing to social pressures. But that's just me.

So you know, have kids, don't have kids, but don't pretend that one choice has intrinsically noble motives behind it. They are both selfish and I see nothing wrong with acknowledging that.
katiebelle2882
my favorites are:

My body was created for this purpose.

Babies are future dish washers!

Babies are also a blessing to other people. They sure love to hold and cuddle mine. Since my siblings have stopped at two children per family, I want to supply them for my parents and everyone else's pleasure.


personally, i think every single one of her reasons are selfish and self serving. more people to wash dishes for her, more kudos from her parents to her bc she cant stop breeding. and in terms of her body being made for it, well, shes just a typical religious moron.
doodlebug
I second lucizoe's entire post.
kelkello
Here here, Luci!
cloverbee
I don't think it's safe to lump all people who shop at wal-mart into the same category. I shop at wal-mart bi-monthly and though I'm not proud of it, it's how I get by on my measly income. I wouldn't make it if I didn't. They have cheap shit and I think that it's part of the bigger picture in that it's sad that people like me really have no choice. It's indicative of the larger problem called poverty. In other words, shopping at wal-mart is a problem but it's only a symptom of the larger problem. I would loooooove to be able to go out and afford laundry detergent at a local store or a natural food chain or anywhere else but I can't and I know a LOT of people who can't. So before we all get lumped together, just thought I would make that slight clarification. Although I do make a concious effort to recycle. and I do cringe when I walk into wal-mart each and every time.
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