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Full Version: BUSTing Trolls, Part Deux
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pixiedust
What part of the bible DO you understand? God did not say go into all the world and piss them off in my name. You are a fake! You don't beieve in God, you are not a christian! And I'm calling you on it right here!
Don't you dare sit there and try and judge me you evil spawn of satan! A Christian, one who reads the bible and doesn't just use it to ram down other peoples throats knows that God isn't like that. My God loves and forgives and he's a gentleman and doesn't force himself on people who don't want him. If you wanted to be a good christian..you would want to be like him. Instead you are as bad as every extreamist or fundamentalist who is working to destroy Isreal and the whole christian faith.
Go spout Buddah or Islam or hindu...but stop making a mockery of my faith!
humanist77
no, no efilorp-I am definitely still the baby killin'-man eater I always was..or-the baby eatin'-man killer I always was..where did you get that list anyway? It's in alphabetical order and everything!

ETA~and I am SO donating a LOT of money to Planned Parenthood in your name.
lilacwine13
Pixie, the exact same thing happened to my faith, and slowly I am getting comfortable being around Xtians. For the first time in twelve years, I've started going to church on my own, but I doubt I'll ever get to the point where I can call myself a Xtian, mainly due to asshats like our tr*ll friend here. There's too much baggage attached to that word, and I'm not comfortable with my spirituality being labelled or catagorized right now anyway.

I've been fortunate enough to meet people of all faiths who are decent, kind, and giving, even some who are fairly conservative in their beliefs. However, those people have had the decency to not try to convert me, and probably realize that actions speak louder than words when it comes to being a Xtain. (As in they help out the poor, donate to charity, and don't spend all their time posting on message boards pissing people off.)
efilorp4
HOLY BIBLE Psalm 81:8-10
8 Hear, O my people, and I will testify unto thee: O Israel, if thou wilt hearken unto me;
9 There shall no strange god be in thee; neither shalt thou worship any strange god.
10 I am the LORD thy God, which brought thee out of the land of Egypt: open thy mouth wide, and I will fill it.
lucizoe
I don't really think it would be better if he were misrepresenting another belief system. An asshole is an asshole is an asshole, you know?

That said, he'll only go away when we all stop referring to him or addressing him or reacting to him.
pepper
luci, such a smarty. i think so too. we don't have an ignore user function yet, but i'm pretending we do.
asshole or lost soul? my mom says that.
pixiedust
I agree lilac. I will only go to non denominational churches too. I don't want to be labeled Baptist, or methodist, or luthren or catholic or whatever. And yes, I do believe some catholics are christians and going to heaven with the rest of us, so sue me! I live in a place completely saturated with Christianity. There are more churches in a 50 mile radius of my house than I can probably count. And you know what? We have one of the highest divorce rates, teen pregnancy rates, and lately crime rates in the country!
I have struggled with my faith for years. I believe in God, But I am also a feminist. I believe Government does not have the right to tell a woman what to do with her body. I still feel it morally wrong, but it should not be illegal because every person has free will to decide what their morals are. And I don't need to throw them up in everyones face. And I still love my friends( some of them Busties) who have had abortions.

And you need to watch your blashphemying fingers efilorp..He does not like it when people do what you do.
efilorp4
That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

tyger
i don't want to post any more in the troll thread in slts, so i'm saying it here:
nohope, don't post come in to slts and post in a troll thread. i'm glad to say we ignore that thread as a general rule, and i don't know the intention of your post, but it doesn't help the thread die faster, which is what we all want
livelyupurself
The reason that list was alphabetized is that it copied the member list off the Bustalicious Live Journal community. It thinks it's slick. I am so done with it, what a lost cause. It doesn't even care about the donations because it's ego is larger than it's love of the 'unborn' or it's love for God.

You are all absoluetly right, we should not respond directly to anything it's says. In fact the only thing we can all keep doing is donating when it posts and then posting our donations so we can keep a tally of just what Steve Katzner has done for the pro-choice movement.

Bwess it's wittle heart.
lilacwine13
Actually, the church I've been attending is Lutheran, but mainly because that's my comfort zone for Xtianity (blame that on being raised in that denomination), and it's a liberal congregation. I've been meaning to check out a Universal Unitarian church nearby, but so far I haven't gotten around to it. I suppose in some ways this is labelling my beliefs and myself, but privately, not all of my beliefs are Xtian, and they don't all fit into one neat and tidy catagory.

Some of the most conservative Xtians I knew in high school went to non-denominational churches, so I'd rather go to a church where I know I won't get kicked out for hating Bush and thinking women should be in positions of power, denominations aside. (Also, I don't think anyone here is going to disagree with Catholics being Xtian, I know I certainly don't. While there are Xtians out there who disagree with that, I think they also disagree with anyone who isn't in their sect being a Xtian, which is rather harsh, IMHO.)

And I agree that religion really has nothing to do with anyone being an asshat. I've met people who aren't Xtian who are horrible as well, and I'm sure there are people who base their ideas on Islam by what they see on the nightly news, which isn't flattering.

I have qualms against abortion, I would much rather have the pregnancy prevented through birth control. But, I believe I am not in the position to judge what anyone does, when it comes to both abortion or having lots of kids. I might not be comfortable with their decision, but it isn't mine to make, it's theirs, just like I want them to respect my choices as well. I don't know when life begins, but I do believe that women should choose whether or not to be mothers. After all, Mary was given that choice :-).
pepper
chica, if this culture was at all supportive of mamas becoming i might get sqeamish about abortion too. but as it stands it is freaking hard work to be someone's mom, partner or no partner, and i think every woman should have the choice to end a pregnancy that would be too much of a challenge for her. nothing is geared towards making being a parent easy, not the job force, that's for damn sure!
and yes, i agree that prevention is preferable but, again, this culture is not all that supportive of that either, it's all left up to the woman to either poison her body with hormones or badger her man in the heat of the moment. drag.
i am very spiritual but i wouldn't want to be associated with any group out there either. most of them are an embarassment to the entire philosophy.
doodlebug
I just wrote and mailed a $90 cheque to the Pro-Choice Action Network in Steve Katzner's name, for the 90 posts he's made as efilorp4.

I will continue to count his posts, and will continue to pledge dollars-for-posts until he stops posting.
pepper
i'll send a donation too. just because i care.
girlbomb_redux
Wow, ninety posts? I owe another sixty dollars. That'll make a grand total of $170 from me and Steve so far. This shit's getting expensive! But oh so worth it.
auralpoison
I am getting a hand cramp from writing all these cheques.
doodlebug
This would be a good time for anybody who has the info about pro-choice organizations to post it for our other donating busties....so...


FOR CANADIANS:

Pro-Choice Action Network
Suite 512, 1755 Robson Street
Vancouver, BC V6G 3B7

Abortion Rights Coalition of Canada
PO Box 2663, Station Main
Vancouver, BC V6B 3W3
humanist77
Just donated $92 to Planned Parenthood for the (as of now) 92 posts made by Steve. I've been meaning to do it anyway, but I just needed an appropriate reminder. Thanks Steve!
sixelacat
Given the latest thread, GLAD is another donation potential. If you scroll down to the bottom, you can donate through Paypal. I'm an atheist, but I'm considering them for Steve's next donation. Just for *karmic* balance....
treehugger
yes, sixelacat. I am making my donation to GLAAD. May as well hit two of Steve's triggers...

ETA: Not that I have anything against the prochoice donations!! Come to think of it I think I'm going to make two donations...50 cents to EACH organization, NARAL and GLAAD, for EACH post.
livelyupurself
I couldn't agree more ladies. GLAAD is another great choice for our trollnation$. My next one will be to GLAAD. I already donate on a regular basis to PLAG and NARAL, so I figured I would send this one to Planned Parenthood.

Though I am in a bit of a rough spot financially right now, I am going to send what I can, whever I can. And in keeping with what the lovely girlbomb did with the link to the picture she posted on her blog, I bring you the picture of my rebate check and the check I wrote out to PP with Steve's name on it for his whacking pleasure :-)

I have a few loves ones who are not BUSTies, but are interested in donating too. In fact, one of my friends said she is going to donate whatever she makes on her yard sale next weekend. My cousin and his gf are down for donating what ever they can, and my sister told my neice that she will match whatever she wants to use of her allowance, and then double it. My neice is very iterested in all of this. She just cant' wrap her head around why someone would continue coming here to harass us, knowing that each post helps the very cause he claims to be fighting. I told her pride is a heavy sin, heh. She cracked up that. Her conclusion was "he just likes to be the center of attention". Out of the mouth of babes.

And just for shits and giggles.

ETA
Awhile back someone mentioned knowing Steve's place of employment. Well, if anyone would like to donate to PFLAG, you can have it done in his honor and an acknowledgment will be mailed to him. Anybody have that address handy?
pepper
"and an acknowledgment will be mailed to him"
at his work?!? oh, rock on. that's the freaking bomb already!
livelyupurself
Ohhhh, so many thanks to ever so lovely sixelacat for alerting me that I used the *wrong* picture, which left some pertinent info visible. WHOOPS! Coulda left myself vulnerable there, yeesh. I had realized it earlier when I first took the photos, but forgot the delete the first shot and grabbed it instead of the edited one. Duh. Go me! Hip hip hooray for ((((sixelacat))))! Hee, I know, I'm a dork.

So anyhoo, here is the ammended linky pooh: The check for Planned Parenthood In Steve Katzner's honor ;)

ETA
Ain't it just the bee's knees pepper?! Can't ya just imagine a bunch of those rolling in where he works. Hee hee, gives me the giggles just picturing it :-) :-) :-)
grrrlyouwant
oh my gosh lively, your fairy check is teh kyoot! :-) and keep up the posts steve. the lord loves those that perform acts of charity for their fellow man. *snerk*
livelyupurself
why, thank ya grrrly :-)
they can be found here.
sixelacat
Ah, shucks, lively! *blush* You're quite welcome.

I'm such a goof, I didn't think about GLAAD when I posted the link for GLAD! According to their website, GLAD "is a presence working for the full dignity and integrity of gay, lesbian, bisexual, transgendered and affirming people within the Christian Church". I think I'm going to set aside troll$ for every "Jesus Hates Fags" type of Steve-O post. The rest of my money's going to research on retro-active abortions, with him firmly in mind *wink*

BTW, the webmaster for the JHF website is a physics professor at KU. Stevie-boy doesn't hold a candle to the IRL trolls here in Kansas!

And this makes me giggle when I get too angry... Dahli Lama
humanist77
an image of the confirmation email from PP.
efilorp4

quote:

"and an acknowledgment will be mailed to him"
at his work?!?




Many people at work would find that amusing at the radical feminists' expense and totally damaging to the radical feminist cause.
doodlebug
I wish I'd taken a photo of my cheque before I sent it. Gah! I'll do that next time.
snafooey
I'm still amused that anyone would find Bust "radical" - the actual "radicals" often tend to think we're kind of a joke (or at the very least not active enough). I guess it's easier to write us off as a supposed fringe group when the reality is that we reflect the mainstream a lot more than the Christian Right cares to admit.

ETA: I wonder if his work would care that one of their employees is wasting so much company time harassing people over the internet.
doodlebug
Speaking as someone who's been labelled a "radical" feminist, I've never actually understood what's so "radical" about wanting, and working peacefully towards, equality for all human beings and a world free of violence and poverty.
snafooey
Sorry, that wasn't a knock against radical feminists at all! Maybe it's b/c I live in an urban area, but I just meant that if Bust represents a radical agenda, then most people I meet are pretty radical too. . .and believe me, I'm not necessarily surrounded by an echo chamber of likeminded voices. Maybe it's the difference between liberal and radical feminism? I'm probably more radical in theory (as in, I think the whole system is screwy) and liberal in action (I live in a capitalist society and right now, I'm trying to find ways to benefit me personally so I can have some financial autonomy).

Mostly I just meant that you hardly have to be a radical feminist to be pro-choice, pro-equality, concerned about the environment, etc.
doodlebug
Ha ha! I changed my previous post slightly, snaf, because I thought you might think I was chafing at your post! Then I saw your post! Anyway, heh, not at all, I didn't think you were talking about me.

I've been pretty heavily involved in the women's movement for a long time, and among the many hundreds of feminists I've met who do this work, I would probably label about ten of them as too seriously "out there" to be doing this work - and probably half of those have only become that way because of burn out. Far less than the number of nutjobs actively involved in, say, the Conservative Party of Canada.
bunnyb
hmmm, any thoughts of who, in literature, would be deemed a radical and who a liberal feminist? did we lose the great feminist reading list thread in the f-word? (runs on over to look)

eta: we did :-(.
doodlebug
[edited 'cause I don't really know what I'm trying to say]
chani
Planned Parenthood in Canada is part of the Canadian Federation for Sexual Health - I made my donation to them.

My Cheque.
anarch
I just tried to tally how much I'm making my donations for, by searching his username, but the search only goes back to May 24. Is there a way to search further back? When did this latest effort start? I haven't been checking in regularly here for the past month. (not that 95 posts since May 24 doesn't make for a fine dollar figure, but I'd like to be as accurate as possible)
efilorp4
Radical Feminists: Anti-Bible, Anti-God And Anti-Christ

By Allan Turner



According to Elizabeth Gould Davis, there was a “golden age” in “prehistory” that was gynocratic (i.e., woman--ruled), and that lasted for untold millennia (Davis, The First Sex, p. 66). According to Davis, in this civilization the woman was civilizer, craftsman, industrialist, agriculturalist, engineer, inventor, and discoverer. Humans were pacific herbivores, unacquainted with warfare and violence. She further argues that during this “golden age” the earth was a semiparadise of peace and tranquility, presided over by an omnipotent goddess (Ibid., p. 65). Eventually, according to Davis' feminist surmisings, women lost their supremacy when men, who were genetic mutations of women, formed into bands and overthrew the peaceful matriarchies, inventing rape and other forms of violence.

Needless to say, Davis' book was quite controversial. Furthermore, she was unable to convince the historians that she was right, (she would, no doubt, remind us that they are just a bunch of “masculists”). Nevertheless, her theme has been incorporated into feminist ideology: “Women are different than men and women should be proud of these differences. In fact, even though we talk a lot about equality, it just may be that women are a bit more than equal to men.”

Even though Davis was unable to convince historians of what was, she certainly was successful in inspiring feminists with what could be. If the world was going to get better, patriarchy would have to be destroyed. “Any and all social reforms superimposed upon our sick civilization can be no more effective than a bandage on a gaping and putrefying wound. Only the complete and total demolition of the social body will cure the fatal sickness. Only the overthrow of the three--thousand--year--old beast of masculist materialism will save the race” (Ibid., p. 340). Echoing this theme, Barbara G. Walker wrote: “A feminist believes a world where socioreligious and legal systems are governed by women would be a more humane world than the present one, which is governed by men. There would be less greed, injustice, exploitation, and warfare” (The Skeptical Feminist: Discovering the Virgin, Mother and Crone, p. 1).

Anti--Bible

According to Rosemary Radford Ruether: “Feminist theology must create a new textual base, a new canon.... Feminist theology cannot be done from the existing base of the Christian Bible” (Womanguides: Readings Toward a Feminist Theology, p. ix). In other words, before society can be thoroughly feminized, the radical feminists know they must eliminate any influence the Bible has had on our society. In doing so, the feminists refer to pre--Christian, non--Christian, and so--called post--Christian religions that affirm the image of the Divine as male and female. For instance, Ruether's book, Womanguides, is a collection of writings from the ancient Near East, Hebrew and Greek mythology, Christian Science, paganism, goddess worship, and the New Age movement. As Phyllis Trible wrote in God and the Rhetoric of Sexuality: “A feminist who loves the Bible produces, in the thinking of many, an oxymoron.... After all, if no man can serve two masters, no woman can serve two authorities, a master called scripture and a mistress called feminism” (quoted in Mary A. Kassian, The Feminist Gospel, p. 109). These feminists, of course, do not just reject the Bible, but they reject the God of the Bible as well.

Anti--God

In her book, Changing of the Gods: Feminism and the End of Traditional Religions, Naomi R. Goldenberg wrote: “`God is going to change,' I thought. `We women are going to bring an end to God. As we take positions in government, in medicine, in law, in business, in the arts and, finally, in religion, we will be the end of Him. We will change the world so much that He won't fit in anymore'” (p. 3). According to the feminists, “If God is male, then the male is God” (Mary Daly, Beyond God the Father, p. 9). Daly writes: “The symbol of the Father God, spawned in the human imagination and sustained as plausible by patriarchy, has in turn rendered service to [patriarchal] society by making its mechanism for the oppression of women appear right and fitting. If God in `his' heaven is a father ruling `his' people, then it is in the `nature' of things and according to divine plan and the order of the universe that society be male--dominated” (Ibid., p. 13).

In rejecting Jehovah, the only true and living God, feminists sought a new symbol that would affirm the legitimacy of their revolutionary movement: the goddess. According to Mary A. Kassian: “Initially, feminists reacted with scorn to the goddess and goddess worship. Why would intelligent, self--defining women want to bow down to ancient idols of stone? But feminists learned that goddess worship was not worship of an external deity; it was, in essence, worship of oneself. The goddess was merely a symbol that acknowledged the legitimacy of self--worship” (The Feminist Gospel, p. 159). In modern feminism, satan's old Edenic lie, “you will be like God, knowing good and evil” (Genesis 3:4), has come full--cycle.

Those who have tried to be feminists without giving up the Bible (something that is quite impossible) have insisted on the use of inclusive language. Rejecting masculine pronouns as limiting one's understanding of who God is, and citing His “feminine” characteristics, feminists feel justified in calling God “She” or “Mother.” And although feminists claim that using female as well as male pronouns to address God has de--sexualized Him, in effect, the opposite has occurred. When feminists switched from masculine to feminine in their description of God, they reduced God to sexuality. They actually presented an image of a deity who is bisexual or androgynous rather than one who transcends the polarity of the sexes. In addition, in renaming God as She/He, feminists have stripped God of independent, personalized existence. The Bible teaches that Jehovah is an individualized, personalized Being who has chosen to relate to His creation as “male.” He is not merely a “force,” as the pagans have traditionally identified Him. Nevertheless, in transforming Biblical feminine metaphors into a divine name for God, the feminists soon discovered that they needed to extend this practice to other metaphors as well, i.e., God ought to be understood as a “rock,” “eagle,” “door,” etc. As a result, His personality was further diffused to encompass all natural phenomena. Renaming God in a way other than He had named Himself has ultimately led the proponents of inclusive language to think of God as a force with no independent personality. This is evident by their reference to God as “He/She/It” (Virginia Mollenkott, The Divine Feminine, p. 113).

Anti--Christ

Rejecting God as Father, the feminists have rejected Jesus Christ as Son. They have argued that Jesus' maleness is inconsequential. In her book, Women & Worship, Sharon Neufer Emswiler surmised, “if the society had been reversed and Palestine had been a matriarchy instead of a patriarchy, surely God would have sent her Daughter” (p. 31). Therefore, feminists urge their followers to change their language about Christ. In doing so, they reject Son of Man, which they consider too masculine, and encourage the use of the Human One. But, of course, such theological shenanigans have serious consequences. The Son of Man is a title indicating that Jesus was divine and those who heard Him refer to Himself by this designation understood that He was really identifying Himself as the “Son of God” (Luke 22:69, 70). Whereas the designation the Human One indicates that Jesus was merely an example of ideal selfhood or humanity. In other words, through the feminist theologians' inclusive language, Christ is viewed as a model of the new humanity, the one sent by God to reveal to us what we can become, rather than God Almighty in the flesh, who took upon Himself the penalty for our sins.

Radical feminism is anti--Bible, anti--God and anti--Christ. It does not liberate, rather it enslaves all those who embrace it to the bondage of sin. It is the Bible, and the Bible alone, that contains the real hope for the liberation of women. Knowing the Truth makes one free indeed (John 8:32).

http://allanturner.com/article12.html
midgemcgrath
so many people have been asking about an 'ignore' option on the boards, and i couldn't understand why... so i got curious and started looking around sections or the lounge i don't normally visit... and JACKPOT! wow, now i see what all the hoohah is about!
pixiedust
Anarch..he did a disappearing act for a month or so and came back with this new incarnation..You would have to check the old 4jesus id for previous one. BTW...I did notice today that we have been calling our troll by the wrong name its Stephan, not Steven. We want to make sure PP gets it right.
pepper
thanks pix.
he was doing alright, calming down on the multitude of posts there for a bit, keeping the dollar figures down, but that last one deserves a few more bucks i think.
*writing, sealing, stamping, sending*
i haven't made a donation like this in a long time, it's good to have a troll around to remind us to keep defending the things we believe in, eh?
snafooey
It should also be noted that he has harassed certain busties - myself included - via other means. As in, he's followed us to other sites and bothered us. I'd complain to his ISP provider, but I already deleted his comment and blocked him.
raisingirl
No matter how much time I spend on Bust or don't spend on Bust, no matter how often I post here or how long my absences are, I will ALWAYS remain a Bustie. LJ has nothing to do with it, you jackass.

GB (and everyone else writing checks), I for one appreciate your hand cramps. If I didn't have such a hard time paying the rent right now, I'd be contributing, too.

Oh, and I'll say it here: I was harassed in Antiotter's LJ. I was called a fag. You couldn't come up with a better insult for a STRAIGHT WOMAN?! Sheesh.
berenguela
bunnyb, this is beyond dated but back when I was a young'un, Shulamith Firestone was a radical feminist and who was a liberal? Susan Okin maybe? I'd say Alison Jagger too. I think, as a term describing a living, cohesive branch of feminist thought, though, it doesn't really have much meaning any more other than as a historical term. I think the only people who refer to radical feminists any more and think it means anything specific are the right wing nut jobs who use it as a shorthand for something like "women who are remotely concerned with something like equality and everyone to the left of them." I may be totally off base though.

You know raisingirl, coming from some straight people, it's a compliment to be called a fag!
txplumwine
Wow, how much ass does the Dollars for Trolling program kick?!? Damn, that's brilliant.

Sixela, thanks for posting GLAD (and Tree for GLAAD, hee!). I'm more of an eclectic magical seeker these days, but GameBoy and I are members at a Congregational / UCC church that is open and affirming. And the UCC national synod is the group that has *endorsed* same-sex marriage as a body. The Disciples are very close to UCC in doctrine.

Mwahs to you kick-ass Troll BUSTesses!
doodlebug
I think the only people who refer to radical feminists any more and think it means anything specific are the right wing nut jobs who use it as a shorthand for something like "women who are remotely concerned with something like equality and everyone to the left of them."

HA HA HA!! You are right ON the money, girl!

But really, it's the point. Words like "radical" and "feminist" and even "christian" and "god" only have meaning to each of us in the context by which we define them. The struggle comes when other people try to impose their definitions on our words.

ETA: Sort of O/T...I wanted to post this yesterday, but wasn't sure where. This seems like as good a place as any. It's an interview with Karen Armstrong, the former nun who has written a number of books about religion. (It's at salon.com - you may have to watch a brief ad first.) The quote from the interview that made me think to post it here: "Very often people hear about God at about the same time as they're learning about Santa Claus. And their ideas about Santa Claus mature and change in time, but their idea of God remains infantile."
livelyupurself
Ah, thank you so much for the correction on sir troll$alot's name pixie :-)

I think it was a great point snafooey made about Stephan Katzner's employer perhaps being intersted in how much time he spends stalking people online. Not a very 'christian' thing to do either, heh.
bunnyb
I wasn't agreeing with the resident nutjob on radical and liberal, I was just curious who would be deemed -by right wing nut jobs- as one or the other.

It's really beginning to piss me off how much attention the troll is receiving whereas BUSTies -who are willing to have a good discussion about feminism- are being ignored. Berneguela, thank you for the reply (although I did get one other from the FUCKING TROLL).

Well, I suppose God will always listen.
berenguela
Wikiedia doesn't do a bad job describing the history of radical feminism and it lists people I forgot like Mary Daly, Andrea Dworkin (didn't forget her but wasn't sure where she belonged), Susan Brownmiller, and Catherine MacKinnon. (Just reading those names takes me back to college.)

Interestingly, if you google "radical feminist" rather than feminism, you pull up the right wing nut jobs.

I liked the Karen Armstrong quotation, doodle. I guess some people thought as children that God was a big daddy who was going to punish all their enemies and never really grew out of it.

Well, since the tr011 turns feminist threads into tr0II threads, I suppose we can turn the tro11 thread into a feminist thread!
anarch
thanks pixiedust. Turns out my search hadn't worked because I tried to search username + "since 75 days" which returned no hits. I should have experimented more.
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