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Full Version: BUSTing Trolls, Part Deux
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coffeebean
Callie, i know that you want to be addressed via pm but I feel that one of the biggest/most possible suggestions made by many of the busties here was completely ignored by you. Can we at least consider upping the minimum for 1. the number of posts required in order to start a new thread and 2. the minimum amount of time required to be able to start new threads. Until you meet both criteria no new threads for new users.

In some ways this would go a long way to curbing trolls and I see this as a viable middle ground between no flexing on bustie mods vs. demanding bustie mods. I think that it is worth a try to see how it goes for a trial basis of a few weeks or so.
pollystyrene
The moderator situation a year ago didn't work because it was handled terribly by Bust. Girltrouble was given the "privilege" of moderating the boards without any warning or training (that I know of; forgive me if I'm wrong on that detail) and she wasn't doing it anonymously, so she was personally getting attacked by the troll and by criticism from other posters about the job she was doing.

How many times have I said since that clusterfuck that a couple of anonymous mods would do the trick? Anonymous mods that know how to use the software properly?

You say you've banned his IP; why is he still here? Is he changing IP address? If that's the case, then just freaking tell us that, and we won't go apeshit about it!

The links themselves were never the problem. It was the zillions of posts and the fact that they didn't get cleaned up for 3-5 days afterwards. Please give us back the linking ability!

If we try mods again, ANONYMOUS mods this time, and it goes smoothly for a few weeks, can we get the pictures back?

Can we get the minimum number of posts raised? And I love jsmith's suggestion to have a minimum amount of time before you can start threads, too.
ModSquad
In the post you will see that I am willing to let someone moderate. Please re-read that post about my concerns and if you have any ideas on how it work better then PM me. We do not want to close the lounge down as I said in the post below but if we can't afford to keep it running because we lost ads due to this then we will have to either close it down or charge to post. As I stated in the post below please PM me directly about your suggestions do not post them here, PM me directly. Any doubts you have about me being the moderator can also be handled over PM.
xoxo,
Callie Watts
girltrouble
mod squad? seriously, you think threatening to shut the lounge down is the way to go if we talk to sponsors? you aren't the only game in town. we can post things on other feminist websites and turn your name into Mudd. don't fucking threaten us. that just adds to the bad blood and lack of respect we've already been shown.

i don't know about anybody else, but you are just throwing fuel on the fire.
ModSquad
QUOTE(coffeebean @ Dec 1 2009, 01:41 PM) *
Callie, i know that you want to be addressed via pm but I feel that one of the biggest/most possible suggestions made by many of the busties here was completely ignored by you. Can we at least consider upping the minimum for 1. the number of posts required in order to start a new thread and 2. the minimum amount of time required to be able to start new threads. Until you meet both criteria no new threads for new users.

In some ways this would go a long way to curbing trolls and I see this as a viable middle ground between no flexing on bustie mods vs. demanding bustie mods. I think that it is worth a try to see how it goes for a trial basis of a few weeks or so.


Hey, I would prefer to deal with all of this over PM but I will address this idea openly as several of you have brought it up. Upping the number of posts wont work, he will just post bible quotes over and over and over again until he can post a link. He creates multiple users, some sit idle for almost a year, so setting a time minimum won't help much either. There is a solution here somewhere. We just need to work together and find it- over PM!
Thanks for the polite suggestions and keep them coming!
xoxo,
Callie Watts
sybarite
Mod Squad/Callie, I appreciate your entering into this dialogue. However, with regard to your request to take this discussion to individual PMs I think it is important to keep this conversation on this thread, where everyone who wants to can participate. Moving it to PM effectively privatises our comments and your responses, and to be honest, reads as antagonistic to open communication.
girltrouble
i think the best idea is the one that debbie/ "callie"/tptb is the most resistant to: we need bustie mods. plain and simple. no bullshit, no obfuscation, no hiding.

there's no need to pm about it, because it needs to be said loudly.

we need 2 or 3 busties to mod this place. period. anything else is nibbling around the edges. the rest is horseshit, and steve will keep coming around. you say you want to deal with steve, but the ONLY thing that hasn't been tried is having bustie mods for a sustained amount of time.

and i can't, for the life of me, figure out why this is so fucking difficult for y'all to figure out. we've been at this for more than 10 years. christ, just fucking do it.



btw: i absolutely do have doubts about you being the moderator. and i don't see why that needs to be adressed in a pm. i think syb pegged it perfectly.
rogue
QUOTE(sybarite @ Dec 1 2009, 03:11 PM) *
Mod Squad/Callie, I appreciate your entering into this dialogue. However, with regard to your request to take this discussion to individual PMs I think it is important to keep this conversation on this thread, where everyone who wants to can participate. Moving it to PM effectively privatises our comments and your responses, and to be honest, reads as antagonistic to open communication.


Hear, hear! syb. I was thinking that myself - that through PM-ing not everyone can see what's going on here, and I think that it's very important that we are all kept in the loop. As you can see, Callie, we are all very passionate about this place. I think that it serves everyone's best interests to use this thread as our discussion forum, because well, that's what it's here for. For us to discuss troll issues together.

The thing that really concerns me is that you said that you would delete and ban anyone who doesn't ignore and report. I ignore but don't report because honestly, you have to be dumb as a post if you can't tell that there's a troll about. No one in their right mind would join the Lounge with the name JESUSJESUSJESUS etc., or copying the name of another member. That's just plain stupid. So yes, I ignore, I don't ever look at what he posts, and just tend to step over the troll droppings. Because I don't report does that mean I'm going to get banned/deleted too? Cause if so, that's just plain moronic. Another reason why I don't report is because it sometimes takes a little bit for me to notice the troll about because he frequents threads that I don't and I'm pretty sure by the time I notice it you've probably received dozens of reports, you catch my drift?

We love it here and we just want it to be clean, no troll garbage allowed. I also don't understand how he keeps coming back if his IP address has been blocked. I'm not very techy, but I'm pretty sure one cannot change their IP unless they change ISPs. I could be incorrect about this, but if I'm not, that's a pretty dedicated troll if he keeps doing that every week just so he can fuck around here.

I guess in closing, I think that my fellow Busties have some really awesome ideas on how to keep this fool at bay. I'm just hoping that you be reasonable and don't expect us to PM you every five minutes when there's an issue - that reeks of censorship to me, and there's no need for it.

ETA: It would be awesome to have our linkage back. I wanted to post something hilarious this morning and was thoroughly disappointed when I remembered that I now cannot because of what's going on here now.

Also: Speak it, GT.
jsmith
Okay, so he makes accounts and lets them sit idle for a good long time. I thought there was a process of validation? Why are his usernames not deleted before he even starts making posts? I'm pretty much always able to tell when he is behind a pseudo, and other posters are able to tell, too. I kind of doubt he would come up with any usernames that we wouldn't recognize as being his. He wants us to know about him, after all.
But if post and time minimums don't cut it, there's still the possibility of enlisting bustie mods. I think GT had a good idea - one mod to monitor newly created user accounts, and one to come in and clean up if a troll makes it through the cracks. I know of a few busties who would be good as mods, provided they have the time and want to do it.

I'm sending the above to ModSquad since that's how they prefer to work, and leaving it here, because I agree with sybarite - this needs to stay open.
auntagonist
Hey ladies (and trolls?)Le sigh. As you can see from my post count, I'm a very infrequent poster,however I've been a lurker and sometimes poster for about 7/8 years now (under a couple of different handles (for instance this http://www.bust.com/lounge/index.php?showuser=23797 is me too), as I had some internet stalking ex-es to deal with. I know that there is a lot of mistrust for new or low post count users, so if any of you want to "validate" who I am and wants my old user names, feel free to PM me). I have used the BUST boards to help me get through a divorce, find amazing new bands, find hilarious websites, get into heated debates, and meet real life friends. I hate the idea of a facebook community INSTEAD of the lounge- I love that BUST (even in it's current incarnations with the trolls) is an open forum, with new voices and new members popping up. Frankly, for the less persistent, more easily handled trolls, I've even had a few snickers at some of the retorts from the sassier posters (jebus help any cyber sex casual trolling dude who wanders into the sex board, for instance).

QUOTE
he thing that really concerns me is that you said that you would delete and ban anyone who doesn't ignore and report. I ignore but don't report because honestly, you have to be dumb as a post if you can't tell that there's a troll about. No one in their right mind would join the Lounge with the name JESUSJESUSJESUS etc., or copying the name of another member. That's just plain stupid. So yes, I ignore, I don't ever look at what he posts, and just tend to step over the troll droppings. Because I don't report does that mean I'm going to get banned/deleted too? Cause if so, that's just plain moronic. Another reason why I don't report is because it sometimes takes a little bit for me to notice the troll about because he frequents threads that I don't and I'm pretty sure by the time I notice it you've probably received dozens of reports, you catch my drift?
Maybe I read it differently - I get the impression that several people thought the same thing... but when I originally read it, I sorta thought the banning was only for people who "engaged" the trolls ?

I also remember when we were user moderated, and while I am not pointing fingers , and certainly don't think I could have done a better job, it was even MORE divisive than the troll situation in a lot of ways. At least with the trolls we can all agree that they are in the wrong, right? I am a member (read, lurker) of several online communities - my experience is that none of them are troll free, even the ones where all the moderators are frequent, regular, and respected members of the community. It is also my experience that as an infrequent poster, posting restrictions and invitation only facebook communities and live journal communities (does anyone remember that? It was WAY back although might have been more UK bustie based), just tear the community apart in cliquish chunks. Frankly, even on the most well run forums that I have been on there is always SOME beef between a moderator and a poster that causes board disruption and smacks of middle school popularity contests. I like our little imperfect corner of the interwebs, and while I feel like there is room for improvement, I certainly don't want to see the site go. I don't think taking away the links is any idea of ideal, but it seemed to me that it was a stopgap until the troll situation was a little more under control,no?

It seems to me that attempting to take away advertising (which...ideal or not, is how free sites are able to operate) seems like a strange way to deal with things. Yes - money talks, and if the steve was somehow on the magazine payroll, than I would understand a lot more. But if I'm sad that the delicious McRib was no longer at McDonalds (which, um, I SO AM!) - the way I handle it is not to smash the windows until they promised me tasty mcribsy goodness . I would write letters and contact the management and suggest alternatives (mcrib burrito? mcrib mcgriddle...droooool, etc.) Maybe the solution is that the modsquad beefs up it's members in house? I just think trying to say that one thing doesn't work, and it should be replaced with something else that hasn't worked or we all take our balls and go home, seems like a counter productive way of dealing with things.

If the only solution is to write letters to advertisters, obviously I can't stop y'all, but I will be throwing my letter into the lot. This is how mine will go

QUOTE
Dear [advertiser]

I regularly read the bust.com message board (the "Lounge"), where you advertise your [good/service]. I want to thank you for all of your years of support. The BUST Lounge has been an important, and safe, space for me for many years. I have found friends there, gotten helpful advice, and it has been an invaluable resource for me. I want to applaud you for being brave enough to support a space that does not censor its users, and allows us to discuss everything and anything that is important to us, no matter how raw,or how real.

Of course, as on any bulletin board, we also have encountered some issues. We have attracted the attention of some annoying "trolls" who try to disrupt our conversations -- but we have always been able to iron out our own issues, and the staff of BUST has done their very best to help cut down on the amount of spam and troll posts we have to deal with. They have a feature that allows me to choose to ignore the posts of anyone I don't want to see at the click of a button. Believe me, I've made good use of that button.

I am so grateful to have a free outlet for my thoughts and opinions, and a virtually endless source of wisdom, laughter, and sass. I appreciate that because of your efforts that this resource has been made available to me. For this reason, I just wanted to reach out and thank you for supporting
something that has made such a difference in my life, and hope that you will continue to support the Lounge, so that it can continue to exist for years to come.

Thank you,


auntagonist (who makes up for her quantity of posts with her LENGTH OF posts. I'm pretty sure this can now be called a TOME!)

p.s - viva la mcrib!

edited for clarification and weird spacing.
culturehandy
I've been lurking about in here and reading all sides of this discussion.

For starters, I agree with ModSquad aka Callie that we can ignore Steve (yay) and don't click on the links. However, in our defense, it's the fact that he's here, causing shit, and it can take days to clean up, sometimes, however it does not take days. Do things get missed? Of course they do. Things always will.

We've been going on about having mods for a long time, I am one of the somewhat old school busties, and Stteve is getting out of control, especially lately.

Now let's look at the issue of Steve. There is no doubt that he is a lunatic fundamentalist who gets a monster smile and boner reading about how worked up we are about him being here. He has even admitted that he gets off on it. If we ignore him, then he will go away. I ask all of you this. We are fighting and arguing and getting downright riled up about all of this? Yes we are! Why? Because we care about this place tremendously. Now my second question is, don't you think that he is getting off on this, reading this seeing this and he's getting exactly what he wants? He is! He's reading all of this right now thinking this is great for him. The threats of the lounge being shut down (whether true or not) are simply giving him more to draw on. He'll sign up more, cause more problems all in the name of silencing us.

All of this fighting? this is exactly what he wants. I have no doubt about this. This is a man who strives on conflict, and the more we fight, whether it be with each other, with modsquad, with Debbie or with him, we are playing into his games.

Now with that said, I ask all of you another few questions, some of them are obvious, clearly but I think it's important we get the scope of what we want. We can't reach a consensus if we don't know what the problems are.

1. Do you want a bustie mod?
2. Would it be acceptable to you to have BOTH a bustie as a mod and ModSquad?
3. What duties would you like the bustie mod to have?
4. Is there a specific time you would want the bustie mod to be active? Examples as being active only on weekends and holidays, all the time etc.
5. Do you want the bustie mod to communicate with the busties or would it be reporting offensive posts only?
6. What is your definition of an offensive post? (Such as the candymandydandy threads going on about kraft's newest products. Are these offensive to you, or is it only Steve's posts which are).
7. Would having a bustie mod deleting offensive posts only (see above) and suspending an offensive poster (but not deleting the member) and having ModSquad having the same abilities (however, ModSquad would also be the only one allowed to delete members) be acceptable?

Is there anything I've missed that you would like addressed?

ETA: Auntagonist, well said.
auntagonist
thanks, culture. For moi personally?

1. Do you want a bustie mod?
-Um. Not particularly.
2. Would it be acceptable to you to have BOTH a bustie as a mod and ModSquad?
-If we do have a bustie mod - this is the solution I would be the most comfortable with
3. What duties would you like the bustie mod to have?
- general scanning for obvious trolls -- (scanning account validation, post titles), reporting to the modsquad mod directly for deletion. The hall monitor to the Mod Squad's principle.

4. Is there a specific time you would want the bustie mod to be active? Examples as being active only on weekends and holidays, all the time etc.
-no real preference here.
5. Do you want the bustie mod to communicate with the busties or would it be reporting offensive posts only?
-I would prefer for the mod to NOT communicate. I prefer for any communication to come from the modsquad

6. What is your definition of an offensive post? (Such as the candymandydandy threads going on about kraft's newest products. Are these offensive to you, or is it only Steve's posts which are).
-posts intended to disrupt with incendiary comments, from posters who ONLY post threads like these. I might say some kind of spicy stuff sometimes, and I don't want to get banned if I have an unpopular opinion. That said, the sort of childish hateful filibusters that steve pulls? totally ban worthy.
7. Would having a bustie mod deleting offensive posts only (see above) and suspending an offensive poster (but not deleting the member) and having ModSquad having the same abilities (however, ModSquad would also be the only one allowed to delete members) be acceptable?
--ehhhh. maybe? this one is tricky. probably. provided there was a really strong vetting process for the bustie mod.
jsmith

1. Do you want a bustie mod?
Yes
2. Would it be acceptable to you to have BOTH a bustie as a mod and ModSquad?
Yes
3. What duties would you like the bustie mod to have?
Delete troll posts
4. Is there a specific time you would want the bustie mod to be active? Examples as being active only on weekends and holidays, all the time etc.
Anytime, but especially when the in-house folks are not looking as closely (weekends, holidays)
5. Do you want the bustie mod to communicate with the busties or would it be reporting offensive posts only?
I think the idea of anonymous moderators is best
6. What is your definition of an offensive post? (Such as the candymandydandy threads going on about kraft's newest products. Are these offensive to you, or is it only Steve's posts which are).
My definition of an offensive post is when someone is saying something for the sole purpose of getting other people's hackles up. The post itself is not contributing to the discussion at hand.
7. Would having a bustie mod deleting offensive posts only (see above) and suspending an offensive poster (but not deleting the member) and having ModSquad having the same abilities (however, ModSquad would also be the only one allowed to delete members) be acceptable?
Yep.

Is there anything I've missed that you would like addressed?
Can't think of anything ATM.



pollystyrene
The problem with the "just don't look" approach is, like I said, that all it takes is one newbie, thinking they're being clever and helpful, to reply to the dumbass and he's got what he wants. And quite honestly, an entire thread here, devoted to bitching about him, has always seemed a little counterproductive to me, and yes, I know, I do post here, so I'm no better.


1. Do you want a bustie mod?
Sure, what the hell. As long as I'm not the only one, and I can be anonymous.

2. Would it be acceptable to you to have BOTH a bustie as a mod and ModSquad? I guess, if it had to be that way, I'm willing to compromise.

3. What duties would you like the bustie mod to have? I want to be able to delete posts and threads, deactivate accounts, maybe stop new users during the validation process before they even post- only in cases where they're blatantly troll-ish...I dunno, AP is better at sniffing them out than I am. I want to be able to ban IP addresses. Did I mention someone will have to show me how to do all of this, though?

4. Is there a specific time you would want the bustie mod to be active? Examples as being active only on weekends and holidays, all the time etc. I'm on here more than I'd like to admit (at least a few times a day, minus the occasional holiday or something), but can't commit to a fixed schedule. Items could probably be eliminated within 24 hours though.

5. Do you want the bustie mod to communicate with the busties or would it be reporting offensive posts only? Not sure exactly what you mean by this. Communicate to what extent and in what context?

6. What is your definition of an offensive post? (Such as the candymandydandy threads going on about kraft's newest products. Are these offensive to you, or is it only Steve's posts which
are).
Clearly, there's a difference between what Steve posts and the occasional spammer. There's also a difference between someone who's just here to spam and someone who may be interested in participating in the board but is also promoting their blog/company/whatever. Anything along the lines of what Steve posts should just be deleted- posts, thread, account. Spammers who have no intention of contributing (the London Escort people) should also be deleted (at least the posts and threads) People who may contribute to the board should just get a shove towards the shameless self-promotion thread. Oh, and creepy guys hanging out in the boob threads should just be deleted.

7. Would having a bustie mod deleting offensive posts only (see above) and suspending an offensive poster (but not deleting the member) and having ModSquad having the same abilities (however, ModSquad would also be the only one allowed to delete members) be acceptable?
I think that the member mods should be able to confer with each other before deleting someone who is only suspicious. I think Steve should just be deleted, no questions asked. If the ModSquad could do things quickly, I guess I could accept only them having the power to delete accounts and ban IP's. But only if they're quick.
girltrouble
no, steve isn't around. if he was here, he'd stir the pot, he couldn't resist it. he's gone away until his next attack. we've discussed things in here after an attack and steve hadn't a clue about them.

i think we've gone over so much of this before, culture, and we hashed it out before i was given that backhanded complement called modding. that same title that is used as a bludgeon against modding every time this subject broached inspite of the fact that both sides know that that particular deck was stacked against me.

we have talked about this, and i don't see the point in rehashing it. we are looking for a steve specific mod(s). we have never had much difficulty dispatching any other troll. the other ones we handle with aplomb, and not too little comedy as well.

unless something has changed that i'm completely missing, the issue is steve, and the inept job of TPTB to handle t in a way that is not more damaging to the lounge. instead of doing the obvious thing and just appointing anonymous bustie mods, they hem, and haw, issue threats and try to shut us up, but in the ten plus years (TEN FUCKING YEARS, PEOPLE!) they have done nothing but punish us by disabling things here in the lounge, and playing at actually addressing the problems, but actually doing very little.

is it any wonder that deletion of steve's posts is infrequent? it's assigned to interns who really don't give a fuck about the lounge, and who will be leaving in a couple of months anyways. even if steve was discouraged, all he needs to do is wait a month or two, new interns will start and he is back in as if he never left. to think anything is is the zenith of stupidity. what's more, I DON'T SEE HOW SOME INTERN WHO THINKS PATROLLING THE LOUNGE IS ONLY A STEP ABOVE CHANGING THE CAT BOX IS MORE TRUST WORTHY THAT A BUSTIE. SERIOUSLY, WTF?!?
seriously? how goddamn fucking stupid is that? really? but time and time again, year after fucking year, we are told that bustie mods are just not an option? ARE YOU FUCKING KIDDING ME?

TAKE YOUR HEAD OUT OF YOUR FUCKING ASS. I TRY TO BE CIVIL, BUT THIS IS THE MOST MORONIC CONVERSATION EVER. really? you would trust an intern who has no skin in this game over someone who comes here daily, and has an investment in it's people and survival? what kind of paranoid, dumb ass bizarro world are you fucking people living in?! goddamn, you're giving me an eye twitch and raising my fucking blood pressure. WHAT IS THE FUCKING PROBLEM?!?

this should have been done 10 years ago, and we wouldn't be talking about it, but someone has some serious control issues and they need FUCKING PROFESSIONAL HELP. CHRIST ON THE CROSS CRUCIFIED. it's so fucking simple yet every fucking year, we have to deal with bust's horseshit. yet here we are and they are wringing their hands about raising the fucking thread starting number. something that is so obvious to anyone who has even lurked here for any length of time. [headdesk] this shit drives me bugfuck. this is like the ceo telling the guys working on the factory floor how to do their job: YOU HAVEN'T A FUCKING CLUE, DEBBIE/CALLIE/TPTB.

let me break it down for you, since it's only been the law of the land around here for more than 15 years:
it is bad form for ANYONE (old bustie or new) to start a new thread without getting consensus in the community forum. so to raise the minimum of posts before one can start a thread is a no impact solution that will slow steve down from making his usual mess. it hurts no one but slows steve down.

but yet you hem and haw for NO FUCKING REASON. GOD, YOUR DRIVE ME NUTS. you ask for suggestions, and when we offer you even the most minor one, you disregard it. you are just putting on a fucking show. it's the same damn show you've put on for the last 10 years and i'm not buying it any more.




rogue
QUOTE(jsmith @ Dec 1 2009, 04:45 PM) *
1. Do you want a bustie mod?
Yes
2. Would it be acceptable to you to have BOTH a bustie as a mod and ModSquad?
Yes
3. What duties would you like the bustie mod to have?
Delete troll posts
4. Is there a specific time you would want the bustie mod to be active? Examples as being active only on weekends and holidays, all the time etc.
Anytime, but especially when the in-house folks are not looking as closely (weekends, holidays)
5. Do you want the bustie mod to communicate with the busties or would it be reporting offensive posts only?
I think the idea of anonymous moderators is best
6. What is your definition of an offensive post? (Such as the candymandydandy threads going on about kraft's newest products. Are these offensive to you, or is it only Steve's posts which are).
My definition of an offensive post is when someone is saying something for the sole purpose of getting other people's hackles up. The post itself is not contributing to the discussion at hand.
7. Would having a bustie mod deleting offensive posts only (see above) and suspending an offensive poster (but not deleting the member) and having ModSquad having the same abilities (however, ModSquad would also be the only one allowed to delete members) be acceptable?
Yep.

Is there anything I've missed that you would like addressed?
Can't think of anything ATM.


I personally think jsmith summed up all of my sentiments exactly. I also think, however, that not only should blatant Steve posts be deleted/banned, but also those who are here to pimp out escort agencies or to sell us something. We don't care about that shit. Go pimp somewhere else. I think that those kinds of posts are offensive as well - they insult my intelligence - they insult everyone's intelligence! We're not morons, just because you say something that I relate to and then OH YEAH! want me to buy Kraft foods (for example) doesn't mean I'm going to. Be gone, demi-trolls!

CH, thanks for posting this. You are an amazing chica, as always. ModSquad/Callie - please consider joining in on this discussion once you return to the office tomorrow. Like I said, PM-ing you is a bitch and I think the tribe has spoken - this is a much better way of discussing things and figuring out the best solution to this crappy situation.

((((EveryBustie))))

ModSquad
At this time we have disabled links in an attempt to keep this troll from posting offensive links.
This poll is to see how you BUSTies would prefer we handle the problem. If we enable links again we ask that posters DO NOT click on suspect links & block the troll so you do not see his posts anymore AND then report him to the mod. The second option is to keep the links disabled to ensure they are not even up at all before the post is deleted and the mods will delete troll posts as soon as possible.
auntagonist
QUOTE
TAKE YOUR HEAD OUT OF YOUR FUCKING ASS. I TRY TO BE CIVIL, BUT THIS IS THE MOST MORONIC CONVERSATION EVER. really? you would trust an intern who has no skin in this game over someone who comes here daily, and has an investment in it's people and survival? what kind of paranoid, dumb ass bizarro world are you fucking people living in?! goddamn, you're giving me an eye twitch and raising my fucking blood pressure. WHAT IS THE FUCKING PROBLEM?!?

this should have been done 10 years ago, and we wouldn't be talking about it, but someone has some serious control issues and they need FUCKING PROFESSIONAL HELP. CHRIST ON THE CROSS CRUCIFIED


I'm presuming that this is directed to the ModSquad? I hope it wasn't directed me for being a dissenting voice regarding the request for a bustie mod.

Look, I don't want to be incendiary.. . but it's obvious the mod situation rubbed you the wrong way and you blame the staff for that. I don't know all the ins and outs of that, but if you feel that it was so mishandled, why do you want to have a mod set up again? It's just that... wouldn't the bust staff still be moderating the mod? wouldn't you still be possibly trusting an intern (and aren't they trying to get a job? so aren't they reasonably invested in doing their job well?) or staff member?

The mod thing is good in theory, but in practice, to avoid misuse, it seems like it would just be adding a middle man-- which seems like it would draw out rather than expedite things.
kittenb
Girl Trouble - I know how much you care and I know how much this upsets you. I was here when you were given the mod duties and I remember how thin you were stretched. That being said, this is not the "most moronic conversation ever" and I fail to see how throwing insult after insult at the Mod Squad and the interns will accomplish your stated goals.
Like polly I am here more than I sometimes admit. I feel sad to see some threads get quiet and I get excited when conversations get really going. A lot of my on-line life revolves around Bust. I mean, have you seen my FB friends list? Well over half are Busties.
I only say this because I can't stand it when the fighting gets like this! I have no way of knowing how much attention the Bust staffers give to the Lounge. However, I do not see what is posted here as a list of lies intended to throw us off some kind of trail. No not-for-profit (which I think Bust is or am I confusing them with Bitch?) has that kind of time. Maybe they are not solving the problems in the ways that the Busties who post in this thread would like, but, despite 10 years of trollishness, Bust is still here as are many old school members so I can't help but think that Bust might be doing something right.
I hate seeing you get this upset GT and I hate that Steve takes up this much headspace for you. You deserve better. I also hate how much attention we are giving the little masterbating freak. I don't think that Bust is making BS threats by saying that w/o ad dollars they would have to close. I think that is just a business fact. I will not be sending out any of the letters.

With all that said, I want our links back. I am willing to risk a little trollishness. I've been ignoring it for years (well, except for a few weak moments here and there.)

1. Do you want a bustie mod?
Maybe as long as it was well-defined and anonymous
2. Would it be acceptable to you to have BOTH a bustie as a mod and ModSquad?
Yes
3. What duties would you like the bustie mod to have?
Delete troll posts
4. Is there a specific time you would want the bustie mod to be active? Examples as being active only on weekends and holidays, all the time etc.
Weekends, American holidays
5. Do you want the bustie mod to communicate with the busties or would it be reporting offensive posts only?
Reporting offensive posts
6. What is your definition of an offensive post? (Such as the candymandydandy threads going on about kraft's newest products. Are these offensive to you, or is it only Steve's posts which are).
Just the Bible thumpin' ones.
7. Would having a bustie mod deleting offensive posts only (see above) and suspending an offensive poster (but not deleting the member) and having ModSquad having the same abilities (however, ModSquad would also be the only one allowed to delete members) be acceptable?
Yes
aviatrix
so i guess censorship ISN'T AN ISSUE, as you've been maintaining all these years....

this is girltrouble, blocking my account for a week is a cute trick, but, c'mon. you know i'm smarter than that. even if i didn't have a back up, i'd still be able to pass the message about what you did.
i have one more thing to say, debbie, callie or whoever you are?

fuck you.

kitten, i've watched the rest of you, with your reasoned arguments get absolutely nowhere for more than ten years. obviously that didn't work. so if we play good cop bad cop then fine, i don't mind being the one being the bad cop. but understand, modsquad or whoever, made me mod when i asked not to. i took the job and got tons of shit in the process in a time where i was going thru enough, and now that is being used as an excuse not to have mods again? i'm sorry, but i take offense at that. i take offense at the stupidity of handing modding duties to an intern when you have perfectly good, passionate people who would do a better job. i take offense that for whatever reason, debbie or whoever is so blinded by their own control issues that they cripple the lounge, and i DAMN SURE take offense that for years the powers that be have hid behind censorship, but with a little bit of prodding they block me.

i'm hurling insults because i think they are warranted. because this argument-- that we can't have busties mod the lounge is one that is insipid. and i'ma call a spade a spade.
laurie
As the co-owner of this site, I want to step in here... It's not helpful to come here and disrespect us, cussing us out about an outside problem that we have done our best to work on for years. Is this lounge perfect? No. But attacking my staff and threatening our livelihood is not cool.
Let me just remind everyone on here of the rules of engagement for our Lounge.
The BUST Lounge Terms, Rules & Other Fun Stuff

Please take a moment to review these rules detailed below. If you agree with them and wish to proceed with the registration, simply click the "Register" button below. To cancel this registration, simply hit the 'back' button on your browser.

The BUST Lounge is a self-moderated discussion board, and members are free to express any and all opinions here. Please remember that we are not responsible for any messages posted.

The messages express the views of the author of the message, and not necessarily the views of BUST Magazine or bust.com. We pride ourselves on being tolerant of any and all opinions, no matter how stupid and/or offensive. That said, any poster who purposefully tries to disrupt the basic functionality of this board will be banned, and their posts will be subject to deletion.

You agree, through your use of this service, that you will not use this bulletin board to post any material which is threatening, invasive of a person's privacy, or otherwise violative of any law, and you agree not to post any copyrighted material unless the copyright is owned by you or by this bulletin board.
ModSquad
Unfortunately, I had to suspend Girltrouble and her other account due to her threats to violate our guidelines. I am not banning her or deleting her at this time. She is just suspended and can come back and remain a member as long as she abides by the guidelines and does not threaten the livelihood of the lounge. Let's solve this problem together without insults and threats. Thank you again to everyone who PMed me. Tomorrow I will only be able to check in a couple times to reply to PMs because I do have other responsibilities at BUST but I promise to read them all and consider all your ideas and to reply to them. An intern will still be moderating in the mean time. Thanks again to everyone who is helping find a solution!
xoxo,
Callie Watts
jsmith
Well, I'm curious to know: what means more to the powers that be? 1) Keeping the lounge up and running, with a few good busties to do some simple moderating, or 2) Losing posters (this will inevitably happen unless something is done) so things can go on as they were before.
I do not understand why the idea of having anonymous mods rubs you the wrong way. From what I've gathered, it sounds like the one attempt that was made was pretty botched. Why not try again, with a little education beforehand? Instead of thrusting the duty onto someone who hasn't been taught the ins and outs of the task. Deleting troll posts is not censoring, so that cannot be the problem.

Something has to come of this thing. It is so unbelievably out of control. And it's really a crying shame that this clown is allowed to go off and disrupt things to the point of putting off newbies. And then someone else mentioned that he actually stalked someone after finding out where she lived. HOLY SHIT. Is this what you stand for?

Why don't we have a poll asking if busties would be willing to try the mod route again? The results you get from this link poll and any action taken as a result will not fix anything. We'll end up right back where we started in this thing.
pollystyrene
Well, for the record, I think it was pretty crappy to suspend girltrouble/aviatrix. I agree with kitten that I hate that she's so upset about this and that steve and this issue is taking up so much headspace for her. Not be cause she's wrong, but because I know how much Bust means to her and how much it hurts her to see this place in shambles, yet again, and how much it hurts her to be censored by people who just don't seem to get it.

On a sidenote, I guess when I answered the questions that CH posted, I was reading it as "Do you want to be a bust mod?" and answered all the questions as such.

I'm not voting on anything until there's a little clarification...is the question just in regards to what's going to happen in the immediate future? Or is this the only option forever and ever? I mean, I'm all for the links being reactivated and continuing with the ignore/report thing for like, the next couple of days. But this is not a long-term solution. Bustie mods with the ability to delete posts, threads and suspend accounts until a magazine official can completely block them is the least I can accept. And I don't see why the bustie mods can't be 24/7...I think there's 6-10 of us who are often enough that there would always be a couple of us around, so why not?
ModSquad
I am totally not opposed to having a poster as a mod, as I said in the post below. In fact I think I have one lined up already and that mod will be anonymous. I will be working on some guidelines for the mod and hopefully they can begin in a week or so, most likely just on weekend and holidays for the time being. Please keep sending in your suggestions through PM regarding what you experienced last time we had a poster moderator and ways it can run smoother.
Thanks to all of you for helping work this out. And I do want to make it clear I am not going to suspend or ban people who post opinions, no matter how negative they are. I will ban people who make threats that violate the terms of service. I have not banned Girltrouble, she is just suspended. I know she is an important part of the community and I am hoping when the suspension is over she will abide by the terms of service. I reposted these terms again below.

The BUST Lounge is a self-moderated discussion board, and members are free to express any and all opinions here. Please remember that we are not responsible for any messages posted.

The messages express the views of the author of the message, and not necessarily the views of BUST Magazine or bust.com. We pride ourselves on being tolerant of any and all opinions, no matter how stupid and/or offensive. That said, any poster who purposefully tries to disrupt the basic functionality of this board will be banned, and their posts will be subject to deletion.

And to answer your question I would like to be able to keep the lounge up and running and also NOT lose posters and I am confident there is a way we can do this together.
ModSquad
I am not a big fan of having several mods for one very important reason, if something goes wrong i.e. deleted comments, deleted posts, altering other peoples threads it will be very hard for me to figure out who is doing it and for me to fix the problem. Having 1 or 2 sounds like a good plan but having a bunch could get even more messy. We do have interns and they can maintain it during office hours.
The poll is just to see how everyone feels about the links and does not have anything to do with mods. I have a BUSTie in line to be a mod already and depending how that goes we can add more if needed. The poll is to see if the harassing links are such a problem that we should not allow links at all or if everyone would rather ignore them and be able to post links themselves. It is also not set in stone if we find that one solution does not work we can always change it back.
xoxo,
Callie Watts
QUOTE(pollystyrene @ Dec 1 2009, 05:36 PM) *
Well, for the record, I think it was pretty crappy to suspend girltrouble/aviatrix. I agree with kitten that I hate that she's so upset about this and that steve and this issue is taking up so much headspace for her. Not be cause she's wrong, but because I know how much Bust means to her and how much it hurts her to see this place in shambles, yet again, and how much it hurts her to be censored by people who just don't seem to get it.

On a sidenote, I guess when I answered the questions that CH posted, I was reading it as "Do you want to be a bust mod?" and answered all the questions as such.

I'm not voting on anything until there's a little clarification...is the question just in regards to what's going to happen in the immediate future? Or is this the only option forever and ever? I mean, I'm all for the links being reactivated and continuing with the ignore/report thing for like, the next couple of days. But this is not a long-term solution. Bustie mods with the ability to delete posts, threads and suspend accounts until a magazine official can completely block them is the least I can accept. And I don't see why the bustie mods can't be 24/7...I think there's 6-10 of us who are often enough that there would always be a couple of us around, so why not?

jsmith
Thanks for the clarification re: links poll. I wonder if it would be possible to add something to the Terms of Service, or to have a stickied thread, that says to be careful of what you click, that some people may be posting links that will take you somewhere you don't want to go.
roseviolet
1. Do you want a bustie mod?

Yes, preferably a few of them so all the work isn't thrown onto one person's shoulders.

2. Would it be acceptable to you to have BOTH a bustie as a mod and ModSquad?

Absolutely.

3. What duties would you like the bustie mod to have?

Deletion of posts and threads at the very least. Deletion of accounts is good, too, but I would settle for suspension if the ModSquad insists on being the only one who can delete accounts.

4. Is there a specific time you would want the bustie mod to be active? Examples as being active only on weekends and holidays, all the time etc.

All the time is fine, but it is imperative that we have someone on weekends and over holidays because that's when troll activity spikes. Certainly I'm not the only one who has noticed that Steve always hits this place hard when American work holidays come around (and when he knows the interns won't be here).

5. Do you want the bustie mod to communicate with the busties or would it be reporting offensive posts only?

If a Bustie mod does what I think s/he should do, there would be no real need to communicate with the Lounge at large. However, I think it would be good for there to be a way for them to communicate with us anonymously just in case.

6. What is your definition of an offensive post? (Such as the candymandydandy threads going on about kraft's newest products. Are these offensive to you, or is it only Steve's posts which are).

Trolls and spam. Both are obvious. Both are violations of basic internet etiquette.
If a person falls into a gray area - say, they "casually" mention the company they work for but still kinda stay on-topic within the thread - we can tell them to move that info to the self-promotion thread. If they ignore that request, then it qualifies as spam and should be deleted.

7. Would having a bustie mod deleting offensive posts only (see above) and suspending an offensive poster (but not deleting the member) and having ModSquad having the same abilities (however, ModSquad would also be the only one allowed to delete members) be acceptable?

Yes, but I don't understand why the offensive account could not be deleted, too. Our big offenders are painfully obvious, so what is the point in delaying the inevitable? I'm willing to hear reasons why this exception might be necessary.


My main points for mods:
1. There should be more than one so the job does not become overwhelming.
2. The mods should be calm, level-headed people. We have plenty of people like that around here.
3. The mods should have a way to communicate privately - partly so they can organize monitoring schedules over holiday weekends when the shit hits the fan.


I love the Lounge. I have made many real-life friends here. Hell, I met my husband here! So I am grateful that it runs so smoothly 98% of the time. I would simply like steps to be taken help it work more smoothly the other 2% of the time. If it's done right, it would make life a lot easier on the people who run this show.
coffeebean
Hi All, I have been following this discussion quite closely and although I am only a recent poster I remember when the previous bustie moderator shitstorm went down. I think that is the perfect word for it both from a bustie and bust employee perspective.

Personally I think that a small group (say 2 at a time so the ownership does not just fall on one person) of bustie mods to moderate at high traffic times will be sufficient. Interns do a pretty adequate job through the work week during business hours and busties can keep up evenings and weekends. Lets at least try it out for a period of say 5-6 weeks and see how it goes - especially because Christmas holidays are just around the corner. If we can keep Steve under contol over the holidays with a few then no need to add more. If not, add more people. Why invite so many cooks into the kitchen if we don't need them? It is clear that modsquad wants to have the interns do some of this because they have direct face to face contact with them and it is easier to control. I think that this is a good compromise to start.

Just my two cents.

Now back to normal posting. IMO - this has been all too consuming. A swift solution would be greatly appreciated.
culturehandy
So here's another question, what is an acceptable time frame for posts to be deleted?

I'm thinking 24 hours is a reasonable amount of time.
coffeebean
CH, I agree 24 hours is reasonable. I don't want bustie mods to begin to despite the lounge because they feel modding it is an upaid/unrecognized (given anonymity) full time job. I think this time frame is especially reasonable if modsquad wants their to be a smaller group of bustie mods (which I have stated below that I agree with).

I am very aware that this transition will not be seamless and believe that there should be some wiggle room on this criteria- so at the first instance busties don't then say 'see we need more mods' and modsquad said 'told you it wouldn't work.' If that makes sense.

sevenseconds
From what I understand, people are worried that if a Bustie makes an unpopular statement, like say, it's not cool for older chicks to sleep with/ support younger boys, then if the (about to be installed) Bustie mod is a cradle robber she will naturally get offended and not like that poster much. (Totally creating a situation here, if anything, I am the cradle robber.)
But yes, I would be worried about this kind of flare ups that we see naturally here and there, and I don't want to see a girl ground to dust (even if she's not banned, the mod might feel superior and abuse her more than if they weren't a mod). So there has to be inbuilt protection against the mod getting personal even when stuff gets personal.
Maybe just keep the Bustie mod's power to deleting Bible toting users only? That has to be very clearly defined.
enfermera
my two cents: the links were never the issue. just weren't. i wasn't aware that they ever have been. i think that's why everyone is so affronted by the new restriction. i totally love the ignore function, but i will say that even utilizing it, seeing the troll vomit everywhere, even if you can't see what it is saying, kind of put a damper on the spirit of things and made me less inclined to post. and there is an occasional issue, as happened at some point this past weekend, where the account is de-activated before the posts are removed, and the ignore function no longer hides them. i know that doesn't happen much, and it's just a "whoopsy" kind of thing, but it's a factor in the situation, at least for me. it would help to have someone a little more on top of things, without having to ruin people's weekends and holidays.
chachaheels
Banning Girl Trouble and eliminating our access to links here is just plain contemptuous censorship. Threatening people here that you'll "shut the bust board down" unless you get your way is a great example of how not to organize or manage anything.
I'm actually kind of grateful to Steve now for making it so crystal clear just how much contempt and ineptitude exists in the "mod squad". Honestly, I don't want these women to profit in any way from anything anyone contributes here, and after watching what they're doing to people like GT, I think they couldn't be more inept and misguided.

KittenB: no one is trying to chase away advertisers here, we just would like them to know their ads are being shown side by side with Steve and his ilks' contributions. See, the "mod squad" have a ton of contempt for us as community members here, but they have open contempt on advertisers at their own peril. If I were a woman who considered herself feminist and I knew my hard earned money spent on adspace here meant my ad would be shown anywhere near anything posted by Steve, I'd PULL my ad as soon as I could and I would demand every penny spent be returned to me--unless I could be guaranteed that Bust would never allow that kind of posting to be associated with my business ever again. Oh sure, they say they're not responsible for what people post here, but you know what? Letting it stay posted is my definition of "responsible". In any case, if it were my business and I found out that were going on here, I'd take my ad money elsewhere fast.

When we ask, the mod squad punishes. But when the advertisers ask, the mod squad does whatever they have to do, no questions asked, no fucking way, to keep their advertisers happy. It's a great way of reminding them, too, that even if they want to subject us to lies and censorship, without us being here for them to "sell" to the advertisers, they'll all be out of work as soon as the ads get pulled.

And I think they need so desperately to be reminded of that just now.
coffeebean
To be honest - I don't really know what people expected to happen by threatening to go to the advertizers - busties were threatening to take extreme action so modsquad retaliated with equally extreme action. I'm not surprised - what is good for one is good for the other. I get that some busties believe that extreme action was required to get modsquad's attention but if we aren't willing to compromise now that we have their attention then I don't foresee us reaching a solution that will satisfy both parties.

Yes the advertising is important for BUST and the magazine to survive but still - some of the advertising money does go toward maintaining the lounge and lending people power to it - even if we complain that it is not enough. That said, there will never be any way to be completely troll free. Even now we are having some discussion about what a timely response would be to the presence of a troll. If we explicitly bring the attention of advertisers to this issue and highlight that this is a greater problem for this site versus others (which is actually only speculation and based on anecdotal evidence mostly from busties) there is always a chance that advertisers will see troll posts before a vigilant bustie mod has a chance to remove them. Given what chacha said she would do if she were an advertiser then do we really want to go down this slippery slope given it is unrealistic to be troll free?
girl_logic
QUOTE(ModSquad @ Dec 1 2009, 05:40 PM) *
I am totally not opposed to having a poster as a mod, as I said in the post below. In fact I think I have one lined up already and that mod will be anonymous. I will be working on some guidelines for the mod and hopefully they can begin in a week or so, most likely just on weekend and holidays for the time being. Please keep sending in your suggestions through PM regarding what you experienced last time we had a poster moderator and ways it can run smoother.
Thanks to all of you for helping work this out. And I do want to make it clear I am not going to suspend or ban people who post opinions, no matter how negative they are. I will ban people who make threats that violate the terms of service. I have not banned Girltrouble, she is just suspended. I know she is an important part of the community and I am hoping when the suspension is over she will abide by the terms of service. I reposted these terms again below.

The BUST Lounge is a self-moderated discussion board, and members are free to express any and all opinions here. Please remember that we are not responsible for any messages posted.

The messages express the views of the author of the message, and not necessarily the views of BUST Magazine or bust.com. We pride ourselves on being tolerant of any and all opinions, no matter how stupid and/or offensive. That said, any poster who purposefully tries to disrupt the basic functionality of this board will be banned, and their posts will be subject to deletion.

And to answer your question I would like to be able to keep the lounge up and running and also NOT lose posters and I am confident there is a way we can do this together.



Girltrouble wasn't the only person who believes/d that taking this issue to advertisers was a good idea, she was only the most vocal (as usual).

It was despicable to punish her this way. I would NOT have been one of the people writing letters to Bust advertisers, and yet, even so I feel threatened about posting my opinions here. Is the next step is going to be asking advertisers to supply the names of busties who have written to them about this issue or was this suspension just very very personal?

It's also completely unfair to hold up her semester as mod as the reason why Bustie mods won't work. I don't always agree with Girltrouble or like her delivery, but how could you treat her like a troll? She was just calling bullshit and a lot of what she said here is true, and it's like she's being pilloried for it. I can't believe I'm seeing this here in the lounge.

zoya

As a long time bustie (10 + years...) I have to say that I think that the suspension of Girltrouble is despicable and amounts to censorship. Yes, GT can "see red" (as she puts it) and be very vocal right off the cuff (as she has also said herself) but come the fuck on... she's not a troll. never has been. And I agree that to hold her semester as a mod up to why bustie mods won't work is bullshit. I don't know that there is any good answer to the troll problem, other than to just have one or two people who are vigilant and who know - or get to know - the boards well enough to recognise a troll's posts right off the bat and nip it in the bud. For those of us who have been here on a regular basis for awhile, it's easy to tell. And that, my friends, I think is the root of the problem, and the basis of the issue which caused GT's upset. The people who maintain this board - including the intern mods - don't spend enough time here becoming part of the community to be able to recognise this stuff (or at least it sure as shit doesn't seem like it - prove it to me otherwise.) suspending GT's account - for however short or long - is, IMO, just another symptom of this. We are self-policing. If any of us felt GT was out of line, you'd have seen us telling her this soon enough without you suspending her account. Focus on the trolls and how to cull them when they show up. That's all I want. Nothing elaborate or fancy. It would be great if you spent enough time in your own lounge, to "get it."

and now that I've spoken up against you, maybe you can suspend my account too. way to go with the censoring.
bunnyb
I haven't posted for months but before that I posted regularly for years and in all that time I have never seen such a blatant act of censorship. Temporarily suspending girltrouble was far from cool and it compelled me to post to give another voice to the feeling of disgust right now. It was a personal attack and was a cowardly way to attempt to shut girltrouble up whilst you propel your agenda of the year forward. girltrouble and I certainly don't always agree and I was vocally critical of how she acted during her time as a moderator but I am not naive and know that she was hindered from the beginning - you set it up to fail and I worry you will do the same again. girltrouble is one of the most passionate BUSTies here and she will always say what is on her mind, whether it is the wisest course of action or not; to put her out of the picture for a while because you don't like what she has to say is a low move.

I don't think that Steve's last round of visits over Thanksgiving were any worse than usual; I don't think that links were ever an issue (the photographs were until you took those away too); I think that the ignore feature works perfectly well but I understand people's upset and frustration when he isn't dealt with quickly enough. It's nothing new though and I don't have faith that TPTB will ever actually do anything longterm that will beat the ignore function or that will satisfy BUSTies. The fact is that for years now you haven't cared about the lounge and only come in every so often to lay down the law. Was threatening to go to the advertisers a wise move? No, but it compelled you to actually sit up and take notice. Suspending girltrouble was immature and vengeful; it was abusing the power you have over posters and an attempt to make a point. Don't try to fear-monger us by threatening to shut down the lounge or ban valued members of our community; we are a feminist space and we will not be silenced.

You have repeatedly quoted the guidelines that say we are self-modded so make us self-modded.

Down with censorship and long live girltrouble.
rogue
*Stands up and cheers for zoya, bunnyb, and of course, GT*

Couldn't have said it better myself. I also feel that banning GT for a week was a fearmongering tactic, and it doesn't sit well with me, no, not at all. dry.gif
pollystyrene
Woohoo, bunny & zoya!
sevenseconds
Can we take a poll to give GT her account back now?

But ditto coffeebean on the advertisers and thinking of constructive solutions.

No offense, but from where I'm sitting, contempt has been shown both ways.
candycane_girl
coffee, it wasn't threatening the advertisers so much as threatening whomever is in charge of the Lounge. I think the basic hope was that in getting the advertisers on our side, then Bust would have to listen to us because if they didn't the only other option (if the advertisers actually left) would be to shut down the Lounge.

I'd just like to know, though, how exactly Girltrouble threatened the Lounge? What makes me even more angry is that we had to let things go this far before we even got a response from the Modsquad.

As for the links, most of us have been around here for a while and know enough not to click. However, Steve's last incarnation had a fairly normal name (Misconceptions) and I can easily see how a newbie would accidentally click on it. But the solution is not to ban links, but to have mods who are constantly on this guy's ass! That's what the issue is here. His posts get left up for days and days and days and as easy as it is to say "Oh, just ignore him" it's kind of hard to ignore the name JESUSJESUSJESUSJESUS allllllllll over the board!

Also, like someone downthread mentioned, all it takes is one newbie who gets tempted by his idiocy and wants to set him straight and then he gets the attention he so desperately craves. It only encourages him more. Not only that, but even when we do ignore him, he doesn't give up right away. He drags it out for quite a while.

We need anonymous, cool headed busties who are eager to take over mod duties! None of that crap last year where it actually said "forum led by:", seriously, why was that even necessary?

chachaheels
I don't buy that the lounge can't be kept troll free. Seen it done on other bulletin boards, with much bigger and much more organized and persistent trolls.

A couple of good monitors, they don't have be named, and the problem is thoroughly under control, and permanently. Easy as pie, when qualified people who know the community here as well as their options with the software and with internet protocol are left alone to do exactly what they need to do. Again, I've seen it done before on other bulletin boards, with much bigger and much more organized and persistent trolls. So have many, many other busties. The only reason it can't be done here is because certain people don't want it to happen here.

Contempt as a response to being ignored, lied to, silenced, and then threatened is just plain old appropriate.
roseviolet
Bunny made an excellent point I would like to repeat.
QUOTE
You have repeatedly quoted the guidelines that say we are self-modded so make us self-modded.

This is all that we're really asking for. It's standard practice for every other forum on the internet. Believe me, I'm a member of multiple on-line forums and this is the only one I know of that does not have multiple volunteer moderators who are also long-time members of the forum. Why must The Bust Lounge be the exception? Why are The Powers That Be so resistant to something that is so common everywhere else on the internet? I really really REALLY want to know the answer to this simple question.

None of us are asking for the volunteer mods to do anything extraordinary. All we want them to do is delete the obvious troll posts when the interns are away from work. Why is this too much to ask? I genuinely do not understand.

By the by, I think GT's account should be reinstated. Suspending her has done nothing but veer this conversation off-topic again. It has created additional mistrust of The ModSquad - something we certainly didn't need right now.
kittenb
While I disagree with the way that Girl Trouble was speaking to the Mod Squad & Co. I do think that, in a self-modded board suspending her account was a bad idea for the reasons RoseViolet stated below.
coffeebean
Candy, I didn't say that I thought the letter-writing Busties were threatening the advertisers directly. In my post below I say exactly what you just said....it was threatening to go to the advertisers as a way to cut bust off at the knees and get them to listen. I get it.

The point of my post was actually to say that I think it is possible to be 99% troll free - but even with bustie mods there would always be a chance that an advertiser might come on here to check (given the letter would make the issue more salient) prior to a bustie mod being on here to clean up a post. I know that we are only talking about hour(s) long windows of opportunity for a troll to post rather than days of opportunity...but it is opportunity nonetheless. As chacha pointed out, if she were an advertiser, she would pull he ads immediately no questions asked if she saw her ad alongside troll material. Therefore I personally think that the letter might have had repercussions we had not considered.

That said, this point is a bit moot - we now have modsquad's attention, they seem to be coming around to the idea of bustie mods. If they are coming around then we need to work with them (even if we were on divided sides before). If busties aren't willing to budge at all to work with them then we may as well start our own facebook area.

GT's account should be reinstated. Things got heated and I think she was 'banned' out of spite although I agree with Kitten that GT's approach may not have been the most conducive to actually getting what she wanted. I think that a small group of anonymous bustie mods with the ability to delete troll posts and new threads is essential to keep the lounge running more smoothly. The links were never the problem.
koffeewitch
Going back to the subject of blocking trolls...I was asking my technerd BF about blocking from an ip address and he explained something about hidden, revolving ip addresses. I guess this makes it extremely difficult to block someone without some real tech know-how. This may be why Mod Squad cannot block Steve on a permanent basis.

I also think we are collectively giving our troll waaay too much power. I'm sorry if some newbies are scared off, but this kind of thing can happen anywhere on-line. YES, we need more mods and we need Bustie mods. But there is no reason this little troll should cause this kind of chaos.

MOD SQUAD....If you're out there, I think the general Bustie attitude is that we would like you to rrestore GirlTrouble's posting privileges. We understand why you don't want to feel attacked, but frankly, this kind of action elicits feelings of ill-will. I hope by now that some Busties are being made MODs through a PM conversation. Let's start taking action and stop talking in circles.
grrrlyouwant
wow, what a damn clusterfuck. banning (however temporarily) a long-time, super-active and -involved poster for saying "hey, we want you to give a shit about us!", threatening to take away the space that makes so many of us feel safe, welcomed, and understood, wanting us to tell you how badly you done fucked up only in private where no one else can see or fault your (lack of) response, taking privileges away from the people that make this community work and bring in your advertising dollars while the troll runs rampant, chortling gleefully the whole time about how much chaos he's caused and new members turn away saying, "well fuck this mess", and ignoring good, reasonable suggestions about how to make this work to everybody's benefit while simultaneously wringing your hands and whining "but we've tried everything!", when really you haven't? not cool callie, not cool at all. TPTB want to know what "being bustie" means? here's a heaping big slice of clue cake: NOT. THIS.
ChingusKhan
Ladies,

I'm a little reluctant to post my opinions on this issue because this - really - isn't a space for me. This Bust Lounge is your space, not mine. As I've posted before, I'm a middle-aged white guy, who votes somewhat to right of the political spectrum. Hardly a typical "Bustie"!

I'd hate to see this site or forum go down. This site is interesting to me and I like visiting and, every once and while, commenting. I've got a daughter, a sister, a mother and a wife, plus many other women in my life, and this site does give me some insight as to how "the other half" thinks. Thanks to all of you for that.

My two cents is that you're giving this Steve guy way too much power. Guys like Steve - and he is a guy, I'm certain - thrive on reaction. He's come here to spread his "holy word" - his version of some Jewish folk tale - and he's doing it here because he wants the conflict. He wants to argue and bully.

He's loving that everyone's all twisted up here and he'll keep coming back to keep the twisting going. Ignore him and I'll bet the first reaction will be a flurry of posts because he'll try to elicit a reaction. Keep ignoring him and, while he won't go away, his posting will slow down and slow down dramatically. He'll always post here because he's the sort of person that thrives on pissing people off. Your reaction is what he craves. Frankly, I'm betting that's the only female reaction the guy gets.

He's a loser, ladies. A loser that likely can't talk to women in the real world so he tries to bully them in the virtual one.
girl_logic
Could someone please PM me the link to the facebook group?

I also remember the lj exodus, and I'm not crazy about the idea of a bustie facebook move (or facebook generally) but I am so disgusted right now, I won't have anything to say here until the expiration of GT's suspension.

I've never had a problem ignoring Steveidiot and his compulsive ejaculations all over the board, but I'm also puzzled by the decision not to have bustie mods working with office staff after all this time and by some of the things that are coming to light in this discussion.
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