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Full Version: BUSTing Trolls, Part Deux
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mandolyn
i'm absolutely aghast at GT being banned.

this is 452 shades of wrong. and so not what this place is about. or used to be about.

this blatant disrespect of busties' legitimate concerns & suggestions is one of the reasons i cancelled my magazine subscription, don't frequent the lounge much anymore, and why so many good people have left for good. not that the powers that be care. it's always been about the if you don't like it, leave mentality.

shame on you.
zoya
QUOTE(ChingusKhan @ Dec 2 2009, 10:46 AM) *
Ladies,

I'm a little reluctant to post my opinions on this issue because this - really - isn't a space for me. This Bust Lounge is your space, not mine. As I've posted before, I'm a middle-aged white guy, who votes somewhat to right of the political spectrum. Hardly a typical "Bustie"!

I'd hate to see this site or forum go down. This site is interesting to me and I like visiting and, every once and while, commenting. I've got a daughter, a sister, a mother and a wife, plus many other women in my life, and this site does give me some insight as to how "the other half" thinks. Thanks to all of you for that.

My two cents is that you're giving this Steve guy way too much power. Guys like Steve - and he is a guy, I'm certain - thrive on reaction. He's come here to spread his "holy word" - his version of some Jewish folk tale - and he's doing it here because he wants the conflict. He wants to argue and bully.

He's loving that everyone's all twisted up here and he'll keep coming back to keep the twisting going. Ignore him and I'll bet the first reaction will be a flurry of posts because he'll try to elicit a reaction. Keep ignoring him and, while he won't go away, his posting will slow down and slow down dramatically. He'll always post here because he's the sort of person that thrives on pissing people off. Your reaction is what he craves. Frankly, I'm betting that's the only female reaction the guy gets.

He's a loser, ladies. A loser that likely can't talk to women in the real world so he tries to bully them in the virtual one.


Hi CK -

thanks for the input and I think it's really cool when guys who "get it" take part in the boards.

I agree with what you've said there, but I think at this point, Steve has just been a catalyst for what has been a bigger problem - that we are supposed to be a self-moderating board, and yet there aren't even a couple of people who are able to act on our behalf as a group and delete troll posts in general - something that we all as a group, agree that we'd like. The Powers That Be hold that power, and we don't feel like they have shown by their actions that they really take the time to understand what is going on here. The trolls are not that big a deal, they happen on every board - but it's annoying and it becomes a bigger deal when the only recourse we have is to report their posts to TPTB, and they don't do anything about it - or it takes them a really long time to do it.

I think that this time, it's just come to a head because this one was soooo clear cut and easy to see as a troll and the posts just could have been deleted as they came up, but since none of us who are regular members have the power to do it, we had to rely on TPTB. Doesn't make things seem like a fully self-moderated board at all. And to top it all off, Girltrouble, who voiced her opinion very loudly and very harshly, was suspended. I may not agree with the way GT has voiced her opinion, but I take offense when a long time, passionate member of this community, who is most certainly NOT a troll, gets suspended because she has become so frustrated with the things I mentioned above, that she is a bit harsh in her criticism of things. I think that smacks of TPTB getting petty and I do not believe GT violated terms of service. She did NOT try to tamper with the functioning of this board, other than threatening to write to advertisers, which may tamper with TPTB ability to pay for the thing, but certainly not the way it actually runs as a community. (other than if they shut it down)

it just is really frustrating to us and feels a bit hypocritical. We're not asking for much. If anything, we're asking for very little.

anyway, just wanted to clarify.
ModSquad
I see that some people are still posting about how you should be able to have a poster as a moderator. As I mentioned in the post yesterday, which you can see below. I found one and hopefully they will start next week and we will see how that goes. Hopefully it works out beautifully. So, once more for the back row: I have found a poster who will begin moderating the lounge hopefully as soon as next week!

QUOTE(ModSquad @ Dec 1 2009, 05:40 PM) *
I am totally not opposed to having a poster as a mod, as I said in the post below. In fact I think I have one lined up already and that mod will be anonymous. I will be working on some guidelines for the mod and hopefully they can begin in a week or so, most likely just on weekend and holidays for the time being. Please keep sending in your suggestions through PM regarding what you experienced last time we had a poster moderator and ways it can run smoother.
Thanks to all of you for helping work this out. And I do want to make it clear I am not going to suspend or ban people who post opinions, no matter how negative they are. I will ban people who make threats that violate the terms of service. I have not banned Girltrouble, she is just suspended. I know she is an important part of the community and I am hoping when the suspension is over she will abide by the terms of service. I reposted these terms again below.

The BUST Lounge is a self-moderated discussion board, and members are free to express any and all opinions here. Please remember that we are not responsible for any messages posted.

The messages express the views of the author of the message, and not necessarily the views of BUST Magazine or bust.com. We pride ourselves on being tolerant of any and all opinions, no matter how stupid and/or offensive. That said, any poster who purposefully tries to disrupt the basic functionality of this board will be banned, and their posts will be subject to deletion.

And to answer your question I would like to be able to keep the lounge up and running and also NOT lose posters and I am confident there is a way we can do this together.
roseviolet
QUOTE(ModSquad @ Dec 2 2009, 02:54 PM) *
I see that some people are still posting about how you should be able to have a poster as a moderator. As I mentioned in the post yesterday, which you can see below. I found one and hopefully they will start next week and we will see how that goes. Hopefully it works out beautifully. So, once more for the back row: I have found a poster who will begin moderating the lounge hopefully as soon as next week!



Thanks, ModSquad. I appreciate that we will have a Bustie mod to cover things when the interns are away. However, I still think this is too big of a job for one person. I'd hate to think that this poor Bustie would be stuck at home during every single holiday, tackling troll issues without any assistance. I hope that in the near future you will allow us to have more than one off-hours moderator so the job does not become too overwhelming & so there will be less risk of burn out.

It looks like the overwhelming majority of people are in favor of allowing links. When will those be back?
coffeebean
Hi Modsquad. Yes, as Rose said, thank you!

I too am still worried about having only one bustie committed to doing this all on their own. Even if the chosen bustie is very committed and able handle it all on their own - I worry that eventually our bustie mod may 1. experience burnout and 2. begin to resent the lounge and view it as 'work' rather than 'fun'. I think that everyone is in agreement that we would not want one of our own to feel this way.

Also, if the bustie mod is not able to keep up (i.e., they want to go away for a weekend, they want to see extended family on holidays) then I worry that this may be used as evidence by the powers that be (even above yourself) that self-moderation idea does not work if troll posts are not deleted in a timely fashion. Does this make sense? Would you please consider starting this trial run with two bustie mods? I think it would give us a better chance at success and go a long way towards resolving this issue for good - which benefits both busties and yourself. Please consider it seriously...for the sake of resolving this!
ModSquad
I addressed the idea for more then one mod below as well. Here is a repost of it:
QUOTE(ModSquad @ Dec 1 2009, 05:49 PM) *
I am not a big fan of having several mods for one very important reason, if something goes wrong i.e. deleted comments, deleted posts, altering other peoples threads it will be very hard for me to figure out who is doing it and for me to fix the problem. Having 1 or 2 sounds like a good plan but having a bunch could get even more messy. We do have interns and they can maintain it during office hours.
The poll is just to see how everyone feels about the links and does not have anything to do with mods. I have a BUSTie in line to be a mod already and depending how that goes we can add more if needed. The poll is to see if the harassing links are such a problem that we should not allow links at all or if everyone would rather ignore them and be able to post links themselves. It is also not set in stone if we find that one solution does not work we can always change it back.
xoxo,
Callie Watts


Regarding links, the poll has only been up for a day so lets let it ride for a little longer, though based on the votes so far it looks like links will clickable again very soon.

xoxo,
Callie Watts

QUOTE(roseviolet @ Dec 2 2009, 03:19 PM) *
Thanks, ModSquad. I appreciate that we will have a Bustie mod to cover things when the interns are away. However, I still think this is too big of a job for one person. I'd hate to think that this poor Bustie would be stuck at home during every single holiday, tackling troll issues without any assistance. I hope that in the near future you will allow us to have more than one off-hours moderator so the job does not become too overwhelming & so there will be less risk of burn out.

It looks like the overwhelming majority of people are in favor of allowing links. When will those be back?

coffeebean
Modsquad. Yes I have been been following your posts carefully and have made an effort NOT to 1. be disrespectful or 2. keep rehashing issues.

In the post you quoted you say specifically '1 or 2 sounds like a good plan.'

I know that you have appointed one bustie mod already and I am asking for you to please consider two! I have never in any of my posts asked for more than what you said sounded like a good idea (i.e., I have never asked for a 'bunch'). I stand by my reasons for wanting two rather than one and I think that they are valid. If you can justify why one would be better than two - for the management of the lounge and not just for personal reasons for the ease of your job then I am willing to reconsider. However, not considering expanding it to two (even when that seems like a reasonable compromise and there is justification for such a plan) makes it look like you are directly attempting to undermine/sabotage this trial run.

Thanks
Coffee
auralpoison
Holy moly.
roseviolet
Ditto everything coffeebean said.

Callie, are you trying to say that the software for the The Lounge only allows there to be one single, solitary moderating account? And that this account will have to be shared between yourself and the volunteer moderator? And that is why you only want to open it up to just one additional person? Because, frankly, that sounds odd to me. All of the other forums I participate on have multiple volunteer mods and each mod has his/her own account. I imagine that the software used for The Lounge allows this as well since the forums look so similar. Is there a chance that The Lounge software is capable of this and you simply aren't aware of how to accomplish it? Could you please look into this just to see if it is, indeed, an option? If it is, I imagine it would make your job easier.
ModSquad
Hey Ladies,
I am open to two but since I am very concerned about how things went last time I would like to start with one and then we can add two if need be. That way one will get trained and I can catch their mistakes and retrain them without having to figure out who is messing up. If we bring a second one in and mistakes are made (accidentally deleting comments/threads/posts) then the mistakes are most likely by the new mod and I can retrain them. Last time did not work out well and in order to nip disasters in the bud lets start this way and see how it goes. I have already been talking to the future mod and time management doesn't seem to be a problem and if the mod gets too slammed they can always let me know and then we can add more if need be. If they go on vacation then I can cover that weekend or one of our amazing interns can do it. At this time I don't think we need two, I have an open dialog with the future mod and I am sure they will let me know if they need more hands on deck. And if the mod starts to hate their life and the lounge becomes more of a burden then fun we simply switch to a different mod. I think it will be fine, lets give it a go this way and see how it works and we can trouble shoot as we go. I am feeling good about this ladies!

Also, if any of you are in the New York area the BUST Craftacular is this Sunday! I'll be there holding down the subscriptions table if you wanna stop by and see the face behind the squad.
10am – 8:00pm
Metropolitan Pavilion, 125 West 18th Street, NYC
xoxo,
Callie Watts

QUOTE(roseviolet @ Dec 2 2009, 04:24 PM) *
Ditto everything coffeebean said.

Callie, are you trying to say that the software for the The Lounge only allows there to be one single, solitary moderating account? And that this account will have to be shared between yourself and the volunteer moderator? And that is why you only want to open it up to just one additional person? Because, frankly, that sounds odd to me. All of the other forums I participate on have multiple volunteer mods and each mod has his/her own account. I imagine that the software used for The Lounge allows this as well since the forums look so similar. Is there a chance that The Lounge software is capable of this and you simply aren't aware of how to accomplish it? Could you please look into this just to see if it is, indeed, an option? If it is, I imagine it would make your job easier.

sheffield_steel
I just wanted to voice my support for clickable links... and while we're at it, for moderators who're supported by the community. Obviously that requires more effort to set up but... you have to choose 'em somehow smile.gif
sevenseconds
I just want to make ModSquad aware that I, and most likely many other posters, cannot bring myself to post anything deep or playful or soul baring in the Lounge knowing that one of our own cannot currently participate. And while I understand the urge behind banning her (yes mods are human, and GT's insults were pretty visceral so it is hard to stand there and take it without doing something), I still think you can rethink that decision in the name of another level of trust between the two sides being restored. It will not equal losing the battle. GT takes my breath away when she expresses herself in more elegant ways, but it can be pretty intense when she is breathing fire, so I think it's agreed that "self-moderating" means Busties will tell each other when they're out of line or wreaking damage. It's a right as well as a responsibility. I'll take both.
But I cannot help feeling punished WITH her while she is suspended. It's human nature. No Bustie is an island.
So I may participate in discussions about this issue here, or conversations on power and freedom, but I cannot post freely until ALL can post freely again.
Although the Lounge is new to me, it is very very dear. I haven't felt so free, understood, well argued with and supported in a community before. My way to reciprocate this would be to boycott my personal feelings and needs until GT can express hers. I hope that happens sooner than later.
And last but not least, thank you for being more open on accommodating the needs of the posters.
jsmith
Is the report function messed up?
sevenseconds
PS: ALL does not include the thing that posted before and after me.
culturehandy
Whew, I caught up on the thread.

Holy.crap.

I'm not so okay with GT's profile being suspended, and I implore ModSquad to please reinstate her profile. I understand that this is merely a temporary suspension, but by doing this, ALL of this, the bickering, the threats, the fighting, we are playing into exactly what he wants.

I also whole heartedly agree with Chingus about him.

Jsmith, it seems the ignore function is fucked up, let's all just ignore this one, too. Playing into him is exactly what he wants.
koffeewitch
Newest member "ladyslounge" is apparently a troll of the corporate variety.
culturehandy
I'm not too sure, she did post in single word association, and granted her blog isn't in her thread, but merely at the end of the post.

I'm not too sure I'd stamp this one a troll.
auralpoison
No, not one of our corporates. Self-promoting, Ladyslounge is, yes. But she's not selling anything but her blog.

WTF is up with the edited @ tags now?
ModSquad
Hey Ladies,
Just wanted to let you know links are back! Is there still a problem with the ignore button? What is exactly happening?
Thanks!
xoxo,
Callie Watts
jsmith
Well, when I tried to report trolly's new incarnation, all I got was a white page after I hit send.
ModSquad
It should be fine now, can you try to report again please!
xoxo,
Callie Watts

QUOTE(jsmith @ Dec 3 2009, 04:00 PM) *
Well, when I tried to report trolly's new incarnation, all I got was a white page after I hit send.

jsmith
Okay, I'll report my own post

Yep, I think it sent this time
treehugger
Am I imagining things? Because I swear I tried to post in this thread early this morning in condemnation of GT's suspension. I might have had a computer glitch, I don't know. sad.gif

Anyway, add me to the people who think the suspension was completely uncalled for, and just underscores our request to truly be a self-moderated board.
sybarite
Others have said it more comprehensively, but for the record I think GT's suspension is unequivocally out of order, and additionally sets a dangerous precedent. Are all comments subject to owner-approval now? Such threats of account suspension disrupt the functionality of the board.
tesao
*tiptoes into lounge*

i haven't been here in about a year - the board told me when i logged in just now.

the suspension of girl trouble for voicing her opinion - against TPTB - is precisely *why* i haven't been here. if i could afford it, i would start my own lounge. because unlike others, i genuinely care about busties.

so - to all of you out there in bustielândia - even those of you who don't know me -

big hugs, little kisses, and loads of silly silly little fishes!
roseviolet
That breaks my heart, Tes. You are such a vivacious person and you bring so much light and life wherever you go. The Lounge is definitely a happier place with you in it.


Callie, I've been a member of The Lounge since early 2001. In all of these years, we've seen some major highs and lows around here. But in all of those years, I do not think that an established Bustie has EVER had her account suspended. Do you understand that? Do you realize that I'm talking about nearly NINE years? Think about that. Think about what you were doing 9 years ago. Were you even in middle school yet? Can you grasp that that is a VERY long time? And NOW can you see why people are so shocked that you suspended GirlTrouble's account? It just IS NOT done. That is why people continue to voice their displeasure and ask for her account to be reinstated. Is she a hot head? Sure she is. But she isn't a troll and she shouldn't be treated like one.
ModSquad
I have been working at BUST magazine since 2003 so I am very familiar with how the lounge operates and I have a lot of respect for this community. I was moderating back in the darkages, appreciating this space from the sidelines. GT is suspended for all the reasons I posted below. It is only a temporary suspension, she'll be back next week. I am not going to censor anything but people attacking the livelihood of the lounge itself and encouraging the troll by posting about it instead of PMing is not ok. It is not being helpful, it's making yourself a troll. Lets work together here as we seem to have been doing in the past couple days and maintain this level of mutual respect please. New moderator coming soon!
xoxo,
Callie Watts

QUOTE(roseviolet @ Dec 4 2009, 09:13 AM) *
That breaks my heart, Tes. You are such a vivacious person and you bring so much light and life wherever you go. The Lounge is definitely a happier place with you in it.
Callie, I've been a member of The Lounge since early 2001. In all of these years, we've seen some major highs and lows around here. But in all of those years, I do not think that an established Bustie has EVER had her account suspended. Do you understand that? Do you realize that I'm talking about nearly NINE years? Think about that. Think about what you were doing 9 years ago. Were you even in middle school yet? Can you grasp that that is a VERY long time? And NOW can you see why people are so shocked that you suspended GirlTrouble's account? It just IS NOT done. That is why people continue to voice their displeasure and ask for her account to be reinstated. Is she a hot head? Sure she is. But she isn't a troll and she shouldn't be treated like one.

bunnyb
It is unlikely that girltrouble will be back next week and I don't blame her in the slightest. Do you not realise that you are forcing BUSTies away from the lounge through that rash act and the ongoing disinterest? Mutual respect makes me laugh because we have never been respected and for the most part we have been ignored by the powers that be; now that you are using those powers destructively, it is even worse than no action at all. You made an example of girltrouble and also exacted some personal vengeance; she was not the one who originally suggested complaining to advertisers nor was she encouraging the troll and calling her a troll is so far off the mark. Yes, she is hotheaded and yes she is foul-mouthed but she is NOT a troll.

Also, the bold-type of "working" is, frankly, patronising. Sigh.
chachaheels
QUOTE(ModSquad @ Dec 4 2009, 10:53 AM) *
GT is suspended for all the reasons I posted below. It is only a temporary suspension, she'll be back next week. I am not going to censor anything but people attacking the livelihood of the lounge itself and encouraging the troll by posting about it instead of PMing is not ok. It is not being helpful, it's making yourself a troll. Lets work together here as we seem to have been doing in the past couple days and maintain this level of mutual respect please. New moderator coming soon!
xoxo,
Callie Watts



Callie, by your own admission, you are a Censor, pure and simple. It's mindboggling that you can't see the irony or the disrespect in your behaviour, either. People demanding to be protected from trolls here no matter how they wish to accomplish this are not "trolls", and to just treat them that way is wrong, let alone stupendously revealing of your true intentions and lack of ability to interact with the people on whom you depend for your livelihood. A lot of the people you're looking down on here have been creating this little goldmine for you a lot longer than you've been around, babe. xoxo on that, please, just in case you think you need to be patronizing again.

If you don't like the way people go about trying to get what is needed here addressed, then ask yourself why someone would feel they have to go to such an extent to be heard--what were/are you doing wrong that people would feel this was their only recourse? Think about how to change your behaviour here, don't just blindly start acting out like a child by silencing and censoring people "because you can". That will get you a lot farther towards being seen as cooperative and responsive to what we need in this community, and it will get you some buy-in, too, if you truly want to "work together" to find a solution here.

This is a community on which you depend--if you're not monitoring the BB and allowing troll posts here unimpeded, but you block members here whenever you're challenged, it will not win you any fans. People have left and are leaving here because of the fact that You and your anti-Mod Squad have failed to do what is necessary--in your implied censorship by allowing trolls to post here freely while you take no action against them; and in your blatant censorship, by silencing the members here both literally and by disabling the board's functions for their participation.

In case you've missed my real point, I'll spell it out: You and your Mod Squad are threatening the livelihood of the lounge.
No one else is. Just you.







rogue
I totally agree with bunnyb and everyone else here in the Lounge regarding girltrouble's banning, but haven't wanted to voice my opinion in fear that I too, would be banned. And that's saying something. When someone is afraid to voice her own opinion because of an unwarranted action that someone else took because she was on a power trip, well....that concerns me. girltrouble never once threatened the Lounge. She never threatened anyone here, not even the troll, definitely not TPTB. Banning her from the site was just plain abhorable, and if she never comes back to the Lounge because of it then we have lost a valuable, established member. It's shameful, actually. I am truly ashamed on behalf of the people who work for Bust.

And calling her a troll? That is low. I mean, lower than low. I almost have no words. There's no way in Hades that any one of us would ever consider GT to be a troll. Ever. I'm appalled at the suggestion.

And honestly? Just because you've worked at Bust since 2003 doesn't make you better than any of us, Callie. What would you like, a medal? Good for you. I'm glad you've been working someplace for six years. Congratulations. But don't think that will make any one of us respect you - and bunnyb was right - you only sound like a condescending know-it-all. And your fake-as-all-Hell xoxo at the end of every post is really annoying and tired, because it's not even a true sentiment. It's a brush off and I've known it all along.

Go ahead and ban me. You have my permission. I've stayed silent long enough - the way this whole situation was handled is deporable. If I'm banned I will miss the Lounge desperately, but I know that it doesn't say anything about my character, just as much as GT being banned doesn't say anything about hers. She is an amazing person and banning her was a very poor decision on your part, Callie. I just hope you realize that, although I doubt you do. If you did - she'd have already been reinstated. And if I'm banned too, well - so much for free speech, huh? Or is that the way we're running this now? Gag orders for all?

*shakes head*

ETA: We must have been composing a post around the same time, chacha. Re: xoxo, great minds think alike, huh?
roseviolet
Callie, I owe you an explanation and an apology. I assumed that you are an intern. We have been told on numerous occasions that The Lounge is moderated by interns - college students who spend a few months working in your office and then move along elsewhere. I can see that making that assumption has made you defensive and distracted you from the point I was trying to make. For that I am sorry.

That still doesn't change the fact that this is the first time a genuine member of this community has had her account suspended in at least 9 years. I guess I just don't understand why you singled out GirlTrouble. She wasn't the only one who talked about contacting sponsors. What exactly did she say that made her worthy of harsher treatment than the others?
doodlebug
I'm coming to this a bit late and I'm not totally sure what's going on, but.....WHOA. Silencing community members. Not okay. Not remotely. I could say more but I agree with what others have said.

When Debbie first told us there would be no mods, years ago, she made abundantly clear that it was about censorship, and that she didn't want to see any form of censorship on the boards. Then we got a serious problem troll who actually harasses people online. So okay, we agreed we wanted him censored, because your right to free speech is like your right to swing your fist - it ends when it connects with someone else's face. Any unrepentent criminal in any society would be punished by exclusion from participating in that society until they can get their shit together. But to censor a community member because she has an opinion and leadership qualities? Honestly? Really????

Seems a bit unreal. Like Bustland Security.
ModSquad
Hey Roseviolet, Thanks for apologizing. In truth being a decade younger would not be so bad at all. I oversee the interns but they are the main moderators.
xoxo,
Callie Watts
bunnyb
QUOTE(ModSquad @ Dec 4 2009, 06:31 PM) *
Hey Roseviolet, Thanks for apologizing. In truth being a decade younger would not be so bad at all. I oversee the interns but they are the main moderators.
xoxo,
Callie Watts


Are you aware how rude it is to ignore people, Callie? Or is that just something else that you are oblivious about? We have legitimate concerns about YOUR heavy-handedness, your censorship, your aggression, your discouragement of open dialogue and yet you blatantly IGNORE us? Not cool, not cool at all.

I wonder if you are intentionally channelling Gossip Girl with the xoxo...
ModSquad
I am not ignoring you. I didn't think I needed to reply because I have already addressed the censorship concerns several time below. GT was banned because she would not stop posting about the troll after I said to please PM so to not encourage him. Threatening to contact advertisers is also against the rules and regulations and she paid no regard to that either.
xoxo,
Callie Watts

QUOTE(bunnyb @ Dec 4 2009, 01:50 PM) *
Are you aware how rude it is to ignore people, Callie? Or is that just something else that you are oblivious about? We have legitimate concerns about YOUR heavy-handedness, your censorship, your aggression, your discouragement of open dialogue and yet you blatantly IGNORE us? Not cool, not cool at all.

I wonder if you are intentionally channelling Gossip Girl with the xoxo...

grrrlyouwant
now wait just a goddamned minute. you "ban" steve, and he's back five minutes later with the same old bullshit, but you ban a longstanding member of this community for a week, and now, NOW you're able to make a banning stick, and a banned user stay gone?!?

I call BULLSHIT. are you hearing this callie?

BULL

FUCKING

SHIT

and don't bother giving me any of that crap about how she was disrupting and threatening the sanctity of the board. she's been a lot louder and a lot nastier than this before, believe me, and there were no consequences except, wait for it...us handling our own fucking shit! and putting her on the same level as the troll? see my avatar, and raise it a "bitch please!"

i'd join in the chorus of "reinstate girtrouble", but i think everyone here knows you've gone way too far for that to fix the mess you made.
ModSquad
Steve uses different IP addresses every time that is how he keeps coming back.
QUOTE(grrrlyouwant @ Dec 4 2009, 02:37 PM) *
now wait just a goddamned minute. you "ban" steve, and he's back five minutes later with the same old bullshit, but you ban a longstanding member of this community for a week, and now, NOW you're able to make a banning stick, and a banned user stay gone?!?

I call BULLSHIT. are you hearing this callie?

BULL

FUCKING

SHIT

and don't bother giving me any of that crap about how she was disrupting and threatening the sanctity of the board. she's been a lot louder and a lot nastier than this before, believe me, and there were no consequences except, wait for it...us handling our own fucking shit! and putting her on the same level as the troll? see my avatar, and raise it a "bitch please!"

i'd join in the chorus of "reinstate girtrouble", but i think everyone here knows you've gone way too far for that to fix the mess you made.

roseviolet
QUOTE(ModSquad @ Dec 4 2009, 02:36 PM) *
GT was banned because she would not stop posting about the troll after I said to please PM so to not encourage him.


1. GT was not the only one who continued to post about the troll. Many of us continued to talk about the troll issue. People have been discussing trolls in this thread for YEARS without any suspensions. That's why this thread exists: to discuss issues related to trolls and even the trolls themselves. If GT was talking about trolls in the Busting Trolls thread, then that means she was just doing the same thing that dozens of Busties have done without ramifications for years. So you can see why your reaction has caused confusion and alarm amongst us.

QUOTE(ModSquad @ Dec 4 2009, 02:36 PM) *
Threatening to contact advertisers is also against the rules and regulations and she paid no regard to that either.


2. Also, GT was not the only one who discussed contacting advertisers. Others did, too. But you only Blocked GT's account. That's confusing, too. What exactly did GT say to warrant different treatment from all the others?



We have good reason to ask these questions, Callie. We have valid reasons to be confused and wary. As I mentioned before, accounts don't get suspended here. Severely disruptive trolls and spammers get blocked, but that's as far as it goes. The very idea of suspensions is totally foreign to us. Now you have chosen to suspend someone and it has lead to a great deal of confusion. Worst of all, you didn't even warn anyone. I read your old posts, Callie. At no point did you ever mention that suspensions were even a possibility. You asked people to move the discussion to PM, but you never said, "move this to PM or your account will be suspended" or "stop talking about the troll or your account will be suspended" or even "if you continue to threaten to contact our advertisers, your account will be suspended". If you'd at least warned people first, you'd have a leg to stand on. But you didn't.

I still am very confused about exactly what GT did that was so unique that she deserved to be suspended without warning. It makes me wonder if I, too, may have my account suspended just by doing what I've always done here in The Lounge. You've drawn a line in the sand, but we don't know where it is, Callie. No wonder we're confused and angered.
bunnyb
Lies, hypocrisy and bending the rules to pursue a personal vendetta. This is all because girltrouble became abusive because that was the only thing she did that was remotely different and you didn't like the shit that she threw at you. The thing about shit? It leaves a smell behind. She's not the only one who can use foul language. Personally we like her colourful language providing she isn't name-calling and she wasn't. THIS IS THE TROLL THREAD WHERE TROLLS ARE DISCUSSED. You. just. don't. get. it. and you never will. You've been working for BUST and been around the lounge for six years, Callie? Yeah, right; you have no idea about our protocols or the basic function of threads (I'll give you a clue: it's in the title). If you read back for YEARS then you will see that this thread has been used to tackle the troll issue -an issue that you have never dealt with- and time after time we dealt with them on our own before the ignore function was introduced. NEVER has a BUSTie been suspended for discussing (sorry, encouraging) a troll in a thread dedicated to it. Hmm, even your own interns have used the thread to update us about the troll situation; this has always been an open forum and we don't even take arguments to PM.

You are completely clueless about how the lounge operates and have dealt with this incompetently, to say the very least.
crazyoldcatlady
i won't pollute the conversation by rehashing what a majority of the other members have said, but i agree.

i've held back because i wanted to be concise.

the sanctity of this space has been compromised. by religious trolls, by ineptitude, by misguided intentions/intentional retaliation. it makes me more sad, really, than angry. that something so integral to so many people's lives can be dismissed so callously. i get it; to everyone else this discussion seems hyperbolic and overreactive, because it's "just the internet". well, now it is to me, too, because without the other busties, and without a baseline respect, it's just another site.

it makes me sad, really, to have to tell the Lounge now that I'm Just Not That Into It.
stargazer
QUOTE(sybarite @ Dec 4 2009, 08:14 AM) *
Others have said it more comprehensively, but for the record I think GT's suspension is unequivocally out of order, and additionally sets a dangerous precedent. Are all comments subject to owner-approval now? Such threats of account suspension disrupt the functionality of the board.


Ditto.
sevenseconds
We got the idea about the links, and the links are back.
Now can we make this poll about something else:

A/ whether the Lounge mod has the right to suspend or ban anyone who hasn't proven to be a mysogynist/ corporate troll and

B/ that the Lounge management apologizes to GT and kindly asks her to come back.

Because I barely know GT but I think there is very little chance she will come back without it being made clear that she is wanted and asked to return, and her not coming back will break my heart. And make the Lounge not the place I joined at all.

So I want a poll about this now.
ModSquad
"mod squad? seriously, you think threatening to shut the lounge down is the way to go if we talk to sponsors? you aren't the only game in town. we can post things on other feminist websites and turn your name into Mudd. don't fucking threaten us. that just adds to the bad blood and lack of respect we've already been shown.

i don't know about anybody else, but you are just throwing fuel on the fire." -Girl Trouble

This is the post I felt warranted the suspension. I feel it violates the Terms and Services agreement which states "That said, any poster who purposefully tries to disrupt the basic functionality of this board will be banned, and their posts will be subject to deletion." Which everyone reads and agrees to when they join the lounge and which Laurie Henzel (one of the publishers/owners) re-posted in the thread and which I re-posted several terms. So yes, I feel I did say what the consequences where and what the rules were. I could have deleted her and all her posts and threads but I only suspended her because I know how important she is to this community and I respect that. Turn your name into mud means to take you down just to clarify what exactly I saw as purposefully trying to disrupt the basic functionality of this board.

This thread may have always been an open place to talk about trolls but I asked for people to PM me with troll stuff in an attempt to not let him know he is getting to you. I made a change in the way the forum is run in an attempt to fix the troll problem. You can PM me if you have a problem with that. Can all discussion of trolls be handled through PM for a couple months and see if it works, please?
xoxo,
Callie Watts
bunnyb
You have caused more damage to this lounge than the troll ever did because you took it upon yourself to change how it was run with no warning; you excluded one of us and have contributed to driving others away. I hope you see that and know that you are responsible for the exodus that will ensue and the subsequent effect that will have on your livelihood - mama can't pay the bills when there is nobody here to see the ads.

GT was right: you are not the only game in town and if takes us completely starting from scratch elsewhere (which we are in the process of doing) then so be it.

You have done this, Callie, you. Congratulations and make sure Steve buys you a drink.
grrrlyouwant
"That said, any poster who purposefully tries to disrupt the basic functionality of this board will be banned, and their posts will be subject to deletion."


So, does that mean you're leaving and deleting your account? Cause I'd say driving away the very people who make this community what it is, and thus having no more user eyeballs to view your precious ads, constitutes a pretty damn big disruption of the basic functionality of the board. Just sayin'.


Busties, I much prefer our PM to callie's. See you there.
roseviolet
QUOTE(ModSquad @ Dec 4 2009, 05:31 PM) *
This thread may have always been an open place to talk about trolls but I asked for people to PM me with troll stuff in an attempt to not let him know he is getting to you. I made a change in the way the forum is run in an attempt to fix the troll problem. You can PM me if you have a problem with that. Can all discussion of trolls be handled through PM for a couple months and see if it works, please?
xoxo,
Callie Watts


Sorry, Callie, but that really isn't a reasonable request. As I've mentioned, I'm a member of a number of forums. I've found that if trolls exist and the regular members of the forum see the trolls' posts, then trolls will be discussed. The only time you won't see discussion of trolls is when the members don't see any troll posts. You can ask all you want, but it's simply human nature for people to talk about such things. I suppose if you absolutely wanted to guarantee that no one here ever talked about trolls ever again, then you could set up a system where every post had to be approved by a moderator before it appeared. That way you could catch all troll posts before they hit the forum and you could alter any conversations that mentioned trolls. But nobody wants to do that.

Most of us don't talk about the trolls anyway. I ignore & report, just like the majority of Busties. A few people talk about them in this thread, but it's a lot better than it used to be. Even so, I've taken on the "water-off-a-duck's-back" theory on this little point and it has lowered my blood pressure considerably. Basically I feel that if a few Busties want to discuss the troll in the troll thread, so what? Trolls will be trolls. I understand that this troll - like all trolls - gets off on people talking about him. But I believe it is not just what we say to the troll that keeps him coming back year after year. It's what we believe. He clearly has an issue with feminists and this is a feminist message board.

So sure, you can decide to ban or suspend anyone who dares to mention the trolls, but I think you'll cause much more anger and resentment in the The Lounge by doing that than if you just let people talk it out. The posts in this thread over the past week prove that. Normally when the troll leaves and his posts are deleted, things usually return back to normal here pretty quickly. The fewer Busties who see his posts, the faster the conversation will move on to other things. It only gets drug out longer if other inflammatory things take place, as well.
jsmith
I hope we don't have a shitstorm this weekend.
doodlebug
Yes, hello.

WE busties started this thread FOR the purpose of troll-naming. To keep it away from the other threads. I understand that the boards themselves are the monetary property right of the BUST organization. But the intellectual property right of this thread belongs to the busties who created it and use it, and I am 100% with RV on this one.

What has made the Lounge such a great place for everyone is that we have the freedom to talk about anything, as members of this community. We work through our shit, we debate, we argue, we fight. We get uppity - with each other and with the so-called Powers That Be. That's what we do; we're feminists. It's gonna happen. Silencing discussions is not going to make people like us want to be here.
sevenseconds
ModSquad,
You see that not reinstating GT is turning the Lounge's name into Mud. More so by the minute.
Reinstate her now and most posters will not be motivated enough to post in this thread.

Also, putting an end to this impulsive suspension now will make more people stay in the Lounge, and will be taken as a statement of goodwill that none of us should feel threatened.
Thank you.
jsmith
Has anyone else randomly received a password recovery email? I just did. I don't know if it's a fluke, or if some troll is actually trying to get into my account and start trouble for me.
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