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Full Version: BUSTing Trolls, Part Deux
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ananke
I can't believe the mods haven't learnt from the Ms debacle. It started just like this. Mods not banning trolls promptly, yet are quick off the bat for members who aren't appropriately arsekissing. I was here in the early days, when pro-rape trolls didn't get banned, when the hardcore sex stories and BDSM threads were highly active with a whole bunch of shit, yet GT gets canned because she points out how fucking stupid the moderation has become?

The whole point of this thread is to take the derail out of the trollshit and put it somewhere so noobs know the trolls aren't welcome and that the community does do something, without derailing entire threads. The culture of Bust is highly idiosyncratic and that's part of it. It grew from the way moderation was handled in the early days, and the software used. Like the social restrictions on starting new threads. To moderate effectively you need to understand the community, that's basic. Signing off, using xoxo? Total and utter lack of understanding of this specific board culture.
auralpoison
JSmith, after one of he who shall not be named's last rounds of BS, I had over two hundred attempts at changing my password flood my email. Seriously. More than TWO HUNDRED attempts.
jsmith
Holy. Crap.
He has way too much time on his paws...
yuefie
Oh, so now people are being banned for speaking their minds? Yeah, guess I really am glad I rarely post around here these days.

Sad when some pathetic pud pulling freak show like Steve can trash their message board and they punish their loyal users for being upset enough about it do something. Talk about a douchey move. Way to go, brainiacs @ BUST headquarters. We all know this board is the redheaded stepchild to Debbie & Co. I say FUCK 'em, no vaseline, just a little bit of fire and some gasoline... dry.gif

Wanna ban me too? Go right the fuck ahead.
zoya
Callie -

way to go, turning this board from a user-moderated board (that just needs a little help with culling trolls and their posts) to something that fits your rules and regulations without even understanding the way that it runs. (and personally I don't actually see how GT's situation pertains to the terms of service at all, and your interpretation of it is beyond me) Why don't you actually hang out on here for a couple weeks and UNDERSTAND what the personality of the community is like? Then maybe you'll understand why everyone is so up in arms about this.

By your actions you've deemed GT worse than Steve - and furthermore, telling people to just PM you about tr**l posts and telling them they can't discuss something comes off as an attempt to tell us how this board *should* run, and chip away at the community here. That's the POINT of this thread. we don't keep secrets. This is our way of keeping things in check. We didn't ask for a dictator, we just asked for a tiny bit of help. If threatening to write to advertisers is what it finally took to get some notice, then I'll hop on the bandwagon and say I did it too so you can suspend me and I can be in solidarity with GT.

I love this place and have made some of the best friends I have through this board, and I'm more than willing to put my ass on the line for it.

Fuck off.

turbojenn
I'd definitely like to see GT reinstated before the arbitrary Dec 9 suspension lift - I think that would show good faith by the ModSquad. As well as putting in place the volunteer modding for evenings/holidays. It's sad that every time things get hairy around here it revolves around the same offensive troll and the lack of power we have to stop him and the neglect of board ownership to take the lead in solving the problem. Every. Single. Time. We have an abusive relationship with a troll which is enabled by the lack of consistent tending to the board...which is perhaps the saddest thing that a feminist magazine aids the abuse of the board's core membership. I'm not ready to leave the board...yet. I value the community we share, and hate to see the community drift away. You've all been too important in my life in the last decade.

In defense of Callie, Laurie, Debbie, and all those who chip in to Mod here...this is a job for them, and they shouldn't have to babysit 24-7, so I really appreciate their willingness to give volunteer modding a second try. In my last job, I modded an online community that was oftentimes as intense as this one...we did not have troll attacks, but when things got heated and I would have to post positions from the org that were distasteful to the community, I was attacked verbally in the forum, people left awful messages on my voicemail, and I even received a couple nasty letters at my home. It was REALLY stressful, I couldn't sleep, I felt anxious all the time, made me dread going to work, modding became a 6am-10pm job to stay on top of it, and I burned out emotionally. It's really draining to be attacked 24/7, and I can imagine that it's feeling like that for the Bust team. So, the abuse needs to stop from our community, as we're being as hurtful as the troll has been to us, and it's not doing any of us any good.

It's not about forgive an forget, either, though. Perhaps a truce between the community and mods can be the best thing for the time being. Reinstate GT, set-up a better framework for volunteer modding, and continue the open dialogue. Admit that the words hurt on both sides, and carry on. And when the troll comes back - we'll be ready, and we'll handle it like a COMMUNITY, not a war zone where we're fighting the wrong side.
stargazer
QUOTE(turbojenn @ Dec 5 2009, 03:08 PM) *
It's not about forgive an forget, either, though. Perhaps a truce between the community and mods can be the best thing for the time being. Reinstate GT, set-up a better framework for volunteer modding, and continue the open dialogue. Admit that the words hurt on both sides, and carry on. And when the troll comes back - we'll be ready, and we'll handle it like a COMMUNITY, not a war zone where we're fighting the wrong side.


The voice of reason! Thank you turbo for your insight and your experience as a mod on another forum. I think the work you are suggesting from both the mod team and Busties speak to the issue. I plan on sticking around for now too.
ketto
I'll just say wow for now.
koffeewitch
Our newest Lounge member is called "The New Mod is JSmith" or something to that effect.

TurboJenn: You said it, sister. Well stated.
jsmith
What???

ETA: I guess trollie thinks I'm the new mod. And since I can't find this new handle anywhere, I figure our new mod is at work already biggrin.gif
koffeewitch
Good, JS; I'm glad you're here to read this. I clicked on the profile and of course (typical troll shit) nothing was in it...then when I looked at the bottom of the board again, another "newest member " was listed. Since I announced it on here, maybe the account was deactivated...I'll try to go in my history and find it again.
jsmith
The bottom of my page always has "milkofamnesia" as the newest member. It's been there for a really long time. Do we really get so few new members?
koffeewitch
HA! Got it out of my computer history. "New Moderator is jsmith".

Sometimes the bottom of the board stats seem to work and other times not. Milkofamnesia has been a member longer than me...

Maybe cause their membership is still validating we can't get them on the member search list? At least I didn't have any luck that way...
jsmith
Huh... I'm normally able to see when trollie creates a new handle. I wonder how that one got past me..

But now I wonder if that attempt to get my password last night was him seriously trying to get into my account, or him just being annoying.
koffeewitch
QUOTE(jsmith @ Dec 5 2009, 08:47 PM) *
Huh... I'm normally able to see when trollie creates a new handle. I wonder how that one got past me..

But now I wonder if that attempt to get my password last night was him seriously trying to get into my account, or him just being annoying.


Well, somebody is sure trying to fuck with you...I guess we all need to be on our guard again. Maybe trollie will show up in our portals as a visitor; that's the usual tactic.
anarch
QUOTE(turbojenn @ Dec 5 2009, 03:08 PM) *
We have an abusive relationship with a troll which is enabled by the lack of consistent tending to the board...which is perhaps the saddest thing that a feminist magazine aids the abuse of the board's core membership. . . . I really appreciate their willingness to give volunteer modding a second try. . . . So, the abuse needs to stop from our community, as we're being as hurtful as the troll has been to us, and it's not doing any of us any good.


While I agree that expressing unfiltered rage tends to be hurtful and counterproductive, I can't see that GT has been in any way "as hurtful as the troll has been to us." The troll is a parasite on our community, full stop. GT's many contributions to this community, for me and others here, outweigh the negativity that sometimes results from her rages. I've been away from here for most of the last month including when this latest brouhaha started so maybe I'm missing something, but I seem to recall that last time, GT's tireless advocacy was the main reason that the idea of volunteer mods gained any traction at all. If she flipped her lid more than usual this time, I couldn't blame her because when you've been beating your head against a brick wall for years, there comes a point when you snap.

Maybe Callie and Debbie feel that way too, and that's why you Powers That Be continue to defend the suspension of GT's account? In which case, I agree with those who've already said that the way it was done, without any kind of explicit warning (like, "This particular comment which I quote here violates the Terms of Service, meaning that we are considering suspending your account"), especially when she's not the only one who talked of contacting sponsors, comes off as singling her out unfairly out of anger rather than evenhanded policy. It also comes off as a big middle finger to other long-term Busties who were fed up with the troll years ago, who would have been delighted a long long time ago to dedicate themselves to learning how to be excellent volunteer mods themselves (lifting the burden from you and your interns), and whose daily blood, sweat, tears, and wisdom make this place worth coming back to, year after year. (and wit, oh my God the laughs I've gotten from jokes and brilliantly-worded insights here!)

Maybe you didn't mean it that way, and if so, you must know that this medium of pure text can encourage misreadings of your tone and intention. A little acknowledgment of where Busties' concerns are coming from might help clear the air. As would reinstatement of GT before Dec 9. Having said that, I also very much appreciate your willingness to give volunteer modding another try, with (I gather) a better framework than last time.
sevenseconds
I decided to post this here:

In the Bringing back Girltrouble poll thread, I referred to ModSquad's decision as a mistake as if it was a given. For anyone still harboring doubts, here are my reasons, (plus, it will serve as a sum up of the arguments given here for ModSquad to have at a glance).

The decision to suspend GT was not legitimate because:

*If language is now an issue on this website, which is indeed BUST's right to decide, this should have been made clear BEFORE penalty action was taken. And it was never pointed out in GT's list of charges.

*No warning was given before a precedent, which the suspension of a non-troll account constitutes, WHATEVER THE CAUSE. Unacceptable.

*Even if going to the advertisers can be interpreted as "disrupting the basic functionality of the board" - GT was not just NOT the only one doing it, she was not remotely the most dangerous (in that respect). She was just echoing that idea, and not even making lists.

*The unique GT threat was to talk about this issue on other feminist websites and if this can be interpreted as disrupting the board's functionality, and grounds for penalty, that is totally illegitimate. I agree with the previous posters (In Bring Back GT) that this is an even more dangerous premise than language being an issue.

These are the reasons why I call this an illegitimate suspension and demand The Lounge's Management apologize and reinstate the suspended account before the penalty period expires.

Thank you for you attention.
jsmith
So far tonight, I've seen 2 troll handles. That's not counting "new moderator is jsmith"
So it looks like he keeps getting cut off at the pass. Now I'm convinced our mod is in place. Squee!
turbojenn
Y'all, GT is as much my friend as yours, so let's not hash things up further with misunderstandings.

My main point is that hurtful things have been done and said on both sides, and it's time for reparations from TPTB so that we can get back to being a community. I do know that when the shit hit the fan like that on me when I was modding another board that it felt VERY personal and made me sick with stress and anxiety, and that we should also understand that the folks running this board are people with feelings and lives, and their care of this board runs opposite of when most of us are spending time here. When volunteer mods are in place, I expect that things will simmer down as we'll have a more consistent offense against trolls.

And Goddess bless anyone willing to take on the mantle of anon-modding. (((((volmods))))
sevenseconds
Totally - on the Goddess bless the volmod, Turbojenn!
I have a sin to admit: I just wanted to move this chunk (my previous post) from the other poll thread before my Edit Button expired because I had overflown the attention sink there (an impulsive move of me), and I apologize for not catching up first to see what you guys had said in this one before parking this post here.
I agree, again and again: It is very hard being a mod on a censorship-free board. We have to make an effort to be gentler. And yes, both sides have a lot to learn from this.
But the moderating job can be made somewhat easier if it is done in a mind state of service, reserving the right to make mistakes and admit them (!) and not with a "now they're the law" in your signature quote.
And now I will shut up and go meditate for humanity's evolution and all that;)
koffeewitch
Okay, let's see. We've had three troll handles last night here and three votes that agree with the GT suspension. INTERESTING, n'est pas?

When I see his handles I go into his portal to trace where he's been and YOU GUESSED IT. But if that's all the damage he can do here tonight AMEN.
jsmith
Actually, I think it was 4:
new mod is jsmith,
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ (that one cracked me up),
JESUSJESUSJESUSJESUS, and
my bustie playthings

but never a post, that I saw.
Maybe he wasn't able to vote under one of his incarnations.
roseviolet
[lays out plate of cookies for our Mystery Mod]
jsmith
QUOTE(roseviolet @ Dec 6 2009, 10:03 AM) *
[lays out plate of cookies for our Mystery Mod]


Ditto
quantumspice
Deb, a friend of mine and I have been playing around with some more effective ways to combat trolls. Please let me know if you're interested in hearing more if we get it to work. Also, you should upgrade your software, there are some exploits in it that were fixed in 3.0.



To everyone else, I was shocked when tesao told me about this this afternoon, because Bust has always been "censorship-free". When I was a Bust mod (and we had trolls back then too - which some of you may remember), Debbie specifically said we could not do anything more than move topics around and close duplicates. Suspending someone for saying *anything* inflammatory or against TPTB is entirely against the "censorship-free" state of mind. In fact, that is the exact OPPOSITE of censorship-free.



Regarding moderation: As many of you know, I run my own forum (and that's one of the reasons I'm not here as much - time is limited, and I have commitments there), and my forum is about to turn 6. We have about 1,000 active posters and about 1,75M posts, which puts us in the size of not-that-big, but not-that-small.

I adamantly believe that for moderation to be effective, the rules must be spelled out for all. You can't punish people for rules they didn't know existed (a la the GT suspension, a la the early moderating at NALF, a la MS) -- it's not fair, it's not effective, and people get up in arms if they think they're being mistreated. Of course, for the rules to be spelled out, they must exist. As well, punishment for breaking those rules should also be spelled out, because it's simply not fair to expect people to magically know the potential consequences of misbehaving.

I can honestly say that people have said nasty things on my forum about how we do things, and the only ones that have been suspended for doing so are the ones who used a sock puppet to do so - because creating sock puppets is against our rules. Own your shit, yo, own your shit.

(ETA: And owning your shit is also why I don't believe that moderators should be anonymous.)

QUOTE(tesao @ Dec 4 2009, 09:02 AM) *
if i could afford it, i would start my own lounge. because unlike others, i genuinely care about busties.

I've said it before when there have been problems here, but anyone who wishes is is more than welcome to join my forum (which, if you don't know the location, PM me).
turbojenn
Word, qspice. Thanks for adding your voice to the discussion! Qspice runs a kick-ass forum, BTW...and I've lapsed over there, but her team of mods are incredible, and they keep up with a VERY busy forum.

I know that I'm sticking around for the long haul here. Trolls don't scare me, and it baffles me a bit everytime shit blows up around here because it's always the same cycle. Giving the troll what he wants is silly, and with better modding, it could be a thing of the past.
kittenb
I appreciate TurboJen's voice of reason. I will also be sticking although I haven't been overly active lately, at least compared to the past. laugh.gif
culturehandy
I've chosen to stay away for the weekend. This has allowed me to think things over, and granted I will be reitering what has already been said but it still needs to be said.

Things have been different around the lounge for months now. For reasons I attribute to crackbook, but also Steve's rampant postings and trolling.

I can understand Callie wanting to be informed directly, but the troll thread exists exactly as RV said, plus it allows us to post about trolls and block them before we see anything about World or warcraft or whatever.

I'm unsure what I feel around here, the infighting, the languge, the banning. While I don't agree with the banning of GT, I certainly don't agree with her suspension. This does worry me as it reeks of censorship, but does this mean we all have to watch what we say? Does this mean I can't go into the portions thread or anal sex thread and say; well I got fucked up the ass good this weekend. the lines have become very blurred.

The lounge has been a great community, I, amoung others, have poured our hearts out here over damn near everything that happens in our lives. Crackbook just isn't the same. I don't feel the same sense of community as I do here. While many of my bustie crackbook friends know my name IRL, it's just different from the lounge.

I agree wholeheartedly with Turbo, that hurtful things have been done and said on both sides, this situation has grown so far out of control and grown so ugly, that it's keeping some posters away, hurting others and making others very *very* angry.

I do hope that we can all put this behind us, although this make take some time because feelings have been hurt. I love this place and I don't want to see it go. I've made some amazing wonderful friends here, I've healed from break ups, fights, depression, and all sorts of things. To have someone disrupt things so is really confusing and disenfranchising. I just hope that those who are thinking of turning away from the lounge do give it second thoughs, time does heal all wounds.
ModSquad
Hey BUSTies,
I have read through all the posts below and I am really sorry if you feel I
overstepped my boundaries as moderator. I agree that we need to revise the
regulations to clarify what behavior we deem inappropriate in order to avoid
this type of confusion in the future. I do not want you BUSTies to feel like
you are being censored and I want to make it clear you will not be censored
for talking about anal sex, or anything else you feel like saying (given
that it does not violate the rules and regulations). In fact, to date we
have not touched nor deleted anyoneís posts (except the troll), so no
censorship has occurred. However, we will not allow this board to be used in
order to threaten our livelihood, and feel that doing so is as much an
attempt to disrupt the boards as anything else. Therefore, we reserve the
right to do what we deem necessary to keep the board up and running. As I
said, stay tuned for a clearer definition of the behavior we will not allow
in the lounge.

Seeing as the rules were unclear, I unsuspended Girltrouble this morning as
a show of good faith and I hope she will rejoin the community.

Not talking about trolls in this thread was just a suggestion. You guys seem
to very strongly feel that you want to keep the discussion open and I am
fine with that. It was said that the tread was opened to talk about trolls
and get them banned before they could post, in reality it is faster to PM
the mod to let them know because I check those first and I read the thread
second and scrolling through the thread I may miss something. PMing me
ensures I am notified of the troll directly and can quickly click the link
and find him. But as I said if you want to keep posting about it here go
ahead but I am going to be honest and say I donít see the benefit of doing
that at all. Iím not going to fight you on this, go for it and troll post
away. We, however, will not be publicly posting all that we are doing to put
a halt to the trolling.

We have been running this board for 15 years now, and do the best we can. If
you are unhappy with the way things are done around here, you of course have
the option and the choice not to participate. While we would be sad to see any
of you go, we also understand that we canít please all of the people all of
the time.

Thank you to Turbojenn and all the other lounge members who are encouraging
a comradery between the mods and the posters and for appreciating the work
that goes into moderating the lounge. Itís not easy and often itís a
thankless job so thank you very much. Lets move ahead and try to get this
lounge running smooth, troll and trouble free.

xoxo,
Callie Watts
girltrouble
for 6 days i was effectively silenced, not allowing me to speak my mind IS censorship,
threatening to shut the board down is censorship.
and you know it.

QUOTE
I am really sorry if you feel I
overstepped my boundaries as moderator.

IF?
if you are gonna say you are sorry, do it, don't play games.
i'm sorry, callie, IF, you don't like to hear the truth. but i have a low tolerance for bullshit.
if you have rules, post them and abide by them, but don't bullshit us. your apology was just as disingenuous as most of your other posts.
"xoxo"

as numerous busties have pointed out, you did not penalize me not for any specific rule breaking, but because i was the most vocal, and you could.

but obviously, cursing is an issue, so i will tell you the next bit so that you can hear it clearly, without curses to get stuck on:

you still contend that it was for threatening the livelyhood of the board, but as we all know i was not the sole person to do so, nor was i the originator of the idea. yet, i hear "the rules were unclear." not simply that you were wrong. telling us we cannot put pressure on you if we think need be is another form of censorship. while i understand the comments of quantuum and jenn, both of whom i respect, i disagree.

i have no doubts that quantum has not waited more than ten years to listen to the her forum's posters. i have every confidence that quantum's board never had to deal with troll posts in the double digits remaining up for 2, 3, 4 days at a time. the same cannot be said for the lounge. the level of neglect has been astounding. for years, you could have asked most busties when steve attacked and they would have told you, holiday weekends, it's been an open secret, but, inspite of your years of experience, this was new information to you?!? then you say you check your pms first? honestly, you have me scratching my head. on any given day, the leg work for who is a troll and what they are doing has been in this thread. from the minor to the major, but you would rather we pm you? it's just another case in point about how you DO NOT GET IT, and another reason, for bustie mods.


you have said that you are training one, and will bring on another. know we will hold you to your word. you have made a practice of obsfucation, feigning listening, creating clusterf*cks and concocting excuses. if there are good will measures to be made, YOU have a lot of ground to make up in gaining busties' trust, and i for one, do not dole trust out lightly, quickly or easily. it must be earned. we on the other hand have operated in good faith until it was patently obvious that we were jenny-last-on-the-list. we posted, emailed, and pmed, to no avail. we put up with no pics, and a board that would be over run for weekends at a time. if you felt threatened, understand we did it out of duress. we were pushed to it, we felt we had tried everything else, WE HAD NO RECOURSE.

and ofcourse, your urge was to threaten us instead of talking and listening. anyone here could have easily organized busties, written letters to your sponsors, and other feminist sites. you would have never heard word one about it. the people on this board do not just connect here, we have each others, phone numbers, adresses, emails, and are friends on other sites. my point was, that threatening us was exactly the wrong tactic, and listening would have served you better.

understand, i am not a pain in your ass because it is something i enjoy, honestly, i think all of us would have been much happier had you listened to us years ago. there are plenty of other topics out there that we would rather talk about, like madmen or the cancellation of dollhouse. we post in here, and talk about this, simply because you made it damn clear that you weren't doing your job. we weren't--aren't just talking out of our ass. we've been yelling because we know the lounge. we know how it works, and we have a good idea what will fly and what won't. WE DO IT BECAUSE WE LOVE IT HERE, and our intent is never to wrest control from you, but simply to make this a safer, better space. yet, again and again you have been tone deaf to our pleas. you have watched the population of the lounge dwindle, with busties migrating to other sites, and have done nothing. i do hope that LISTENING is the one policy that you intend to change. as my mother would say, "ab los ear holes." or OPEN YOUR EARHOLES.
roseviolet
Callie, I think you've misunderstood the point of the Busting Trolls thread. It isn't just about you. It's about us. It's a way that Busties can warn other Busties about trolls or potential trolls and, therefore, give us a chance to ignore the offending parties. Remember that over the past many many years, it was common for the posts of trolls and spammers to remain on the forum for days and days at a time. By posting about their existence on this thread, Busties could warn others about the trolls and give the community members an opportunity to avoid or block the offending posts. This thread is also a great place to channel all of the frustration and anger to one place rather than allowing it to spread all over the forum.

I think you should also know that in the opinion of many of us, censorship HAS taken place here. Perhaps you have not deleted any posts, but you removed GirlTrouble's voice from this place for days and days. You made it impossible for her to speak here. A lot of us consider that censorship.

I appreciate that you reinstated GirlTrouble's account today. I see it as a sort of peace offering and I appreciate the gesture. It's just a shame that it took so long. From what I've heard from others, it seems to be too little too late for a lot of people. I know you can't go back in time and change what has already taken place. I just hope that the moderators learn from this experience. Moderators are here to help, certainly, but because of their powerful position, they can do more damage than anyone else. We are at your mercy. Please remember to moderate with a humble, calm heart. When you feel yourself reacting emotionally, take the time to reconsider your actions lest you make the situation worse.
candycane_girl
I just have to chime in on a few things.

GT is right about not being the only person who talked about going to the advertisers. I was one of the people and yet strangely enough, I was not banned. I am still convinced that the only reason GT was banned was because she was the loudest about it.

Also, Callie, you say that you check your PMs first and check the thread second and that by scrolling through the thread you may miss something. How about this? Read this thread first! And not only that but maybe you shouldn't be scrolling through the thread, maybe you should take the time to carefully read the posts in the thread! It's not that hard, with the exception of recent events, most of the posts here are simple one liners of "so and so seems to be a troll/spammer". This is your job, you get paid for this and yet you find it difficult just to read a thread? Give me a break.

Also, most of steve's incarnations have really obvious names! Who else would come in here with a name like JESUSJESUSJESUSJESUS? Do you really expect us to believe that when you visit the board you don't notice his gigantic size 24 font posts of scripture? I'll give you a pass when it comes to names like girl.trouble but seriously, if one of us minions can see it then you shouldn't have trouble seeing it either.

Also, just to reiterate what Rose said, a lot of people post in here to warn other busties of posters who seem like potential trolls or spammers. Oftentimes they warn us of when a troll has altered another bustie's name to make it seem like the same person. This thread is useful to us and you could just as easily make use of it.

jsmith
QUOTE(candycane_girl @ Dec 7 2009, 04:44 PM) *


Also, most of steve's incarnations have really obvious names! Who else would come in here with a name like JESUSJESUSJESUSJESUS?


Yep, and I'd be willing to bet that he will always stick with obvious handles. He wants us to know who he is.
sevenseconds
(just woke up as usual, so I am late to this discussion and haven't had caffeine yet. So excuse my slur)

I am ready to start seeing this action as the beginning of a different era.
I am new, and naive, and don't have the weight of this issue ravaging my trust on and off for 10 years, and I would like to feel good about hanging in the Lounge again.

Callie, thank you for reinstating the hot account before the period expired, I am willing to take this as an apology and overlook what exactly it is that you said in your letter (lack of caffeine helps;).

I know you are human, humans feel the need to save face, and Busties are too good at humiliation, so my anger is back on its leash again.

I take the act of reinstating the account as a good gesture, and as admission that it was an impulsive decision in the first place. I also take it that you will do your human best to listen to what the people want and start modding in a spirit of service to this community. Please correct me if I am wrong on any of these counts, otherwise I take your silence as agreement.

I am also eagerly awaiting a clear definition of what actions, if any, will be grounds for suspensions of a proven non-troll. I hope the definition is "none", but I'd like to see that stated clearly.


And while censorship DID take place, I will write it off as "human reaction" and not as a premeditated foot in the door of our freedom, so I can now get on with the joys and pains of expressing my private self instead of rehashing this till we're all numb and all solutions sound meaningless.
If some new violation of our sensitized sense of freedom is allowed again, I reserve my right to get very angry and urge for mass action of all sorts and flavors. But this is a good time for peace for me.

I understand both the people who need to remain upset and/or take a step back from the Lounge, and those who carried on like nothing was happening. I'd like to see them both arguing with me about why we shouldn't "play games' in a relationship and other burning imminent issues, instead of bumming over troll action, and you, dear Callie, can help this. And I'd like life to resume now.

Thank you to all who put up with my tirades here and anywhere,

7
jsmith
His newest handle, "house divided can't stand," is validating.
candycane_girl
Just wondering J, how do you always see these handles?
jsmith
They're showing up at the bottom of the board index, under currently active users.
There's even another new handle down there now, but I think I'll shut up about it, it seems to encourage the feeble little fellow.
pollystyrene
"Tiring Out Moderator"...hmm, a Monday night at 10:15pm CST...is the vol-mod on in the evenings? Or just weekends?

I'm not complaining about the vol-mod, I just want to clarify when they're on duty.

*more snackies and a ginormous cup of coffee for the vol-mod*
coffeebean
Thanks Callie, I consider your actions a gesture of good faith. Clearly things were heated on both sides and I am chalking this up to human nature to react/up the ante rather than an effort to actually censor Busties. The past cannot be changed and we can argue about what happened forever, but the reality is that we can only influence what happens in the future here at the lounge. Hopefully mods and busties can have more open communication.
coffeebean
Also, I just wanted to weigh in on this issue of 'new rules' that busties have been talking about as I have heard several people say that they are waiting to see what the 'new rules' are and that this will influence their decision to either stay or leave the lounge. Perhaps I missed something not being part of the facebook group or something but my understanding of the new clearer rules was only that they were going to specifically outline the behaviours that would be considered threatening to the operation of the lounge..similar to what we were talking about already (i.e. directly threatening to take the lounge down or threaten its livelihood). I don't think that TPTB are all that interested in changing anything about the lounge other than that. For example, will people still be able to swear, talk about anal, voice their concerns - I have no reason to believe after rereading this thread that these will be problems or violations of any rules.
girl_logic
Thank COD for a Bustie mod, your volunteer time and energy on this are appreciated whoever you are!

As for the rest of it, it happened and is still happening. Making peace is one thing, and there IS such a thing as Human Nature and yes saving face, but inappropriate censorship did happen, punishing GT by silencing her here was intentional, it didn't just "appear to happen", we did not simply "feel like it happened". And from the sounds of it with new rules coming up, (and Callie still in denial about what she did), it will now become entrenched.

QUOTE(ModSquad @ Dec 7 2009, 02:20 PM) *
...
Seeing as the rules were unclear, I unsuspended Girltrouble this morning as
a show of good faith and I hope she will rejoin the community
....


It wasn't that the rules were unclear to every literate person here, it's that they never existed before Callie made them up one day. Oh well!

I'm glad that Girl Trouble spoke up and said exactly what she thought. The way she did it reminds me that there are other ways that women can speak to power (in my own life, I am terminally 'make nice' and appeasing). And the women here who could let the mod know that they consider her an equal human who was in error remind me that there are other ways to speak to each other.
koffeewitch
Roseviolet sums up the purpose of this thread very well; it is for us, not a way to communicate with the office staff. I don't think that Callie is asking too much of us to request that we PM her with news of a troll. I assume simply hitting the "report to mod" button serves the same purpose. My usual tactic (and that of many others) is to report the post and then add a reply to other Busties that I have already reported to the mods. I do this, obviously, hoping that Callie and TPTB would not be flooded with a shit storm of mail about the same post.

If there is anything else we can do to help the mods, I hope Callie/somebody will let us know immediately. I am happy to do my part, especially considering the work it must take on holidays and week-ends for some lone volunteer. Just in case there are Busties who have not yet played around with the portals, when you see a troll handle you can always go into their portal to see which threads they have been reading and to call up their posts/threads. Because we do not use the Lounge for the purposes of stalking and harassment, this may not be something we've all thought of before. I know I had never used these functions until I started considering what tactics a troll might use to sabotage us. I'm also glad this thread lets us all know that he likes to try and post under member's usernames. He's hoping we'll be stupid enough to fall for something like girl(DOT)trouble or girltrouble(space)(period). In fact, now that I've brought this up he might even see it as a challenge to mess with my username next. Fortunately for us, he's obtusely obvious.
quantumspice
QUOTE(candycane_girl @ Dec 7 2009, 09:47 PM) *
Just wondering J, how do you always see these handles?

You can see the list of the most recently validation-completed members by going to the Members tab and sorting by join date/desc. Or just click this link. Looks like Steve may have another one in the works, "Change in progress"

You can also see who's logged in on the main board, at the bottom, under "Board Statistics" -- it shows the active users that are logged in (and how many hidden users are logged in; right now there are 89 people not logged in reading the forum, 3 anonymous people reading, and 5 members). A few rows down, it also shows the most recently created account (milkofamnesia), though I suspect that the way the validation system is set up here, that is rarely accurate.


QUOTE(girltrouble @ Dec 7 2009, 04:55 PM) *
i have every confidence that quantum's board never had to deal with troll posts in the double digits remaining up for 2, 3, 4 days at a time.
We have never had a troll quite like Steve, so I honestly cannot say what we would do. However, we do have a general hands off policy as far as posts go. That said, since we do suspend people for making sock puppets or duplicate accounts to get around area restrictions, and we do ban people for making duplicate accounts while on suspension for duplicate accounts, probably, he would have been permanently banned long ago.


QUOTE(ModSquad @ Dec 7 2009, 03:20 PM) *
We, however, will not be publicly posting all that we are doing to put a halt to the trolling.
There are IPB mods that detect duplicate accounts. Some of them just log the activity, some of them prevent the accounts from being created, some of them will ban all accounts involved. They use a variety of tools (some use cookies, some uses IP records to do a complicated cross checking of non-known dial-up IPs, some involve a tiny flash script that yoinks information about your hardware and stores it in the database). You should consider installing some of the activity logging ones, if you have not done so already. I recommended these mods when I recommended installing IPB and still believe that they are the way to go.

But another piece of free, low-tech advice: make the validating accounts searchable in the members list. The more eyes on new accounts, the faster you can look into suspicious Steve-like accounts and take care of them.

And again: You really need to upgrade to the new version of IPB. Spend the $25 if the license has lasped, as this version has many security holes that were fixed in the next version. The next version also has an improved report system, which is nice when you have TONS of reports (and a limited PM box) and multiple moderators. We used a beta version, and it's realllly nice. (It's how we're so able to handle reports with as few moderators as we have given the number of active members. We can all see the reports, separate from our normal PMs, and discuss them, and know not only that things have been dealt with, but who dealt with it.)
pollystyrene
Hey, I'll put some $ in a jar for that license fee! Thanks for posting some great info, quantum....let's see if anything's done about it. dry.gif
auralpoison
Dude, I will mail a cheque for $20 tomorrow, hand to Maud if we can get an upgrade.

The latest incarnation awaiting validation is GODGODGODGODGODGODGODGOD.
girltrouble
seriously? $25 has been all that has been standing between us and the old steve free lounge?
[head desk]

you have got to be joking me.

thank you for that info quantum. you are more than worth your weight in gold, and always have been. thank you for your coming back to help us with this, and giving us a view from the otherside. it's proved invaluable. i'm curious, how long has that upgrade been available?


that said, ARE YOU FUCKING KIDDING ME?
TWENTY FIVE DOLLARS IS ALL IT FUCKING TAKES TO BE RID OF STEVE?

here we have it:
EXHIBIT A.
a clear cut case of how little regard this site has for us.
twenty five dollars?
how much is that? the price of one subscription?
and why do i get the feeling that they are damn sure have been getting more than $25 dollars from that new ad they put up last year.

y'all are UN-FUCKING-BELIEVABLE.

i'd go back and cut and paste all the bullshit y'all have been posting about "doing everything [you] could." but why bother? of course, everybody knows it was horseshit. now it's clear as day.
quantumspice
The upgrade won't get rid of trolls, it's the various modifications that would have to be installed to be able to detect the trolls. You'll still have to do the lifting with installing the tools and using them. (The upgrade just gets rid of general exploits like SQL injection etc)
quantumspice
Oh, and I took too much time to do it. We've been using different tools since late 2005. I think the particular one I recommended as an easy-to-install one was late 2005/early 2006 - I found/wrote/tweaked most of our tools (like our swap feedback) when I was unemployed.

Kinda miss it, last time I had free time! laugh.gif


OH but the $25 upgrade does get you the nice report center, which was $25 before the guy sold it to IPB so it's like, free easy report handling! xD
auralpoison
Tonight it's Feminists Failed Debbie.
jsmith
Hehe, he's so pathetic that I can't help but giggle biggrin.gif
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