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glassk
well we're talking about art on the internet- I just realized I havea about 0 links for art in my "favorites." I've got millions of other stuff, especially sewing, fashion, and comics but nothing art-related. Any suggestions?
sonik
Last weekend i went to the sneaker event and it was all very hip and urban (rotterdam is like really urban, there's this vibe that differs completely from Amsterdam. It's an interesting city).

Anyway here they are:







I inserted all kinds of things that refer to LA and NYC.







Glassk, you could take a look at the illustrationmundo website, there's lots of cool illustrationwork there.

Mouse, i did jus that, six months of backup in money when i started freelancing fulltime. Freelancing is also about letting go, trusting that there will be a new assignment around the corner. Maybe that sounds weird, but it actually works and everyone i spoke with in the last six months advised me exactly that.
As you know, it's important that once you start freelancing it's important to keep it up. Otherwise people lose sight of you. I wish you luck, if you stick to it, i think you can make it! Your work has quality.
mouse
oh hey look, there's my house on the LA shoe....right underneath the gun tongue.gif seriously though, they look AWESOME!! i'd wear em! are they going to be produced, or was it a one-time thing for an art show?

i'm a ways a way from having six months backup but it's definitely a future plan. i signed on with a staffing agency for creatives before i got my most recent job, and i still get all the listings from them and there are enough each day to make me feel comfortable that if i didn't get steady illustration work at first, at least i'd be able to get steady freelance design work. that's probably a six-month goal for me, i think....hope so at least.

in other news, some girl on the naked and angry site has submitted a design that is a direct ripoff of a design i did at my old job for forever 21. it's a robot-print sweatshirt that's in their stores and on their website right now, and the girl basically took two of the robot icons from my pattern and colored them differently. it looks really shitty and i'd be really pissed off if she had any chance of winning. i obviously don't have rights to that pattern since i did it when i was in-house, and it's certainly not any kind of ground-breaking design, but they're still my fucking robots, and she's trying to pass them off as her own. i wrote a letter to the admins of the site and hopefully they'll deal with it....ugh. i don't want to get her in trouble or anything, i just want her to stop claiming it as her own. LAME.
sonik
That sucks, Mouse. But even if you can't claim the design as your own, she's the one looking stupid. Integrity anyone? How can anybody in their right mind do something like that? Good thing you wrote a letter to the admins. I don't think they would like a winner who'd copied stuff, it makes the site look bad. In these cases, if you make a big stink, it'll backfire. So i think you went the elegant way in the manner you handled it.

A couple of years ago i found out thath someone who was with the same (now former) agency as me used an element (a whole human body!) out of one of my drawings and just copied and pasted into his own. I can't help but thinking my former agency was ok with it because they were angry when i left them.

But last year i was hounded at some forum of artists talking shit about how i was totally ripping off some artist. I never even heard of the guy before that.

So yeah, copying sucks. Think up your own stuff.

The sneakers were customized just for that occasion. Thye're not going to be produced. Although my contact at the agency was very enthusiastic about it ans said we should do something with it.

Good luck on going solo, Mouse! I feel that you've got that drive to do it, so go for it, even if it seems a long way.
Muffy
I have a question. I just called on a graphic design job this morning and the gentlmen proceeded to ask me about my experience. which is fine. I graduated in 2001 and have been doing graphic design off and on the job situation isn't so great. And I talked myself up as best I could. Then this guy asks me how old I am? Isn't that illegal? And if I graduated from anywhere in 2001 I'm clearly an adult so what does it matter? I really hate that employeers have the upper hand and they feel they can't treat you like crap before and after they hire you. I'm fearing going in there because I really don't look 30 (I've been mistaken for a teenager) and this isn't the first time a potential employer in the design industry has treated me like I'm a stupid kid applying to their big important white man run company. grrr.
gumby_cc
Wow, Muffy!

That's some fucked up shit!

I looked up age disrimination in Rhode Island (where you're from, your profile says), and also the federal ADEA law...and it didn't say anywhere I looked that it was illegal to ask someone's age at an interview, and the ADEA law protects workers over 40 if the company has more than 15 employees, so I don't really know in your case if it's illegal...but still, that is completely galling. If your interviewer says crap like that during the interview, I can't imagine how much it could suck working there as his employer.

Wow Mouse, that sucks about someone copying your work. That must be so weird to see your work in a different form on something you never created. Woof.
mouse
i don't know if it's illegal or not, but that's ridiculous of him to ask. if i were you muffy, i'd just state my age proudly and then let your work speak for itself. i've learned that working in this industry age rarely matters, where you went to school rarely matters, and even the level of schooling you've completed can be irrelevant if your portfolio is stellar. if you're confident in your work, i wouldn't worry about it. good luck!


(oh and just following up, they did get back to me and they did take the plagiarizing submission down. i kind of feel like an ass making such a big deal of it, but on the other hand, it's not cool to see your work getting passed off as someone else's).
Muffy
One of my friends sugguested that perhaps they were just asking because they wanted someone mature.. but I don't know. I ended up going and filling out an application. The guy was an idiot! He told me over the phone, to come down and fill out an application which does not imply intereview/portfolio review yet after I filled it out he asked me if I had brought any work along - of course not, I didn't think it was an interview! I don't think he's calling. I have an actual interview tommorow with a private school, so fingers crossed on that one.

mouse, don't feel like an ass about making any kind of deal about plagiarism. they're the ones that should feel like an ass! I'm glad to hear they at least took it down.


spiderella
Arrgh, I need advice! I'm an art student, and a friend of a friend is looking to publish a book on a DnD-style RPG he's created and needs some illustrators. I think the exposure would be worth it (I'd like to go into illustration), but I've never done anything like this before. I'm confident about my skills, but I have no idea what to charge or how big my drawings should be or what. I could easily be doing up to 50 pieces if he decides to use me. What do I do, what do I say?! HALP.
mouse
hey spiderella,

this is a tough one. i would talk with the friend and find out how much his budget is for the project. 50 pieces is A LOT of work for you--and a lot of money for him. it sounds like he's self-publishing, which makes me worried for you, since that usually spells out disaster for the creative people involved. you end up doing a ton of work (for some reason, people who aren't used to working with illustrators tend to expect a lot more work for a lot less money than pros do) for very little compensation. think of it this way, even if you only charge him $20 a drawing, he's looking at a grand. and most self-publishers tend to faint at numbers like that. make sure he realizes that you will be doing A LOT of work, and don't let him take advantage of you. on the other hand, you don't want to be too big for your britches if you're not professional yet either, and you really can't ask standard fees from someone who's funding the entire project himself. it's a delicate balance (i have had much trouble with it myself in the past sad.gif )

if i were you, i would agree to a smaller number of drawings--say, ten--for a fixed rate, and then if you guys decide that it's working well, you can negotiate more. if you decide that it's NOT going well, you didn't get yourself in over your head. one thing you should absolutely do before you start work is draw up a contract and have him agree to it and sign it. it should state how many drawings you are expected to do, when the preliminaries are due, how many revisions he is allowed to ask for (2 or 3 is standard, more would require more money), when the final is due, and most importantly, what your royalties will be if the book takes off and starts making money. also, it's standard practice for him to pay you half up front, half when the finals are submitted.

if, on the other hand, he has backing from a publisher, then you should be dealing with them for payment, not him.

as far as size goes, you would have to ask him for specifications. it varies.

good luck, and let us know how it goes! there are some good links to resources in this thread if you read the archives a bit.
smarttart
Muffy,
That IS totally illegal for them him to ask your age in an interview. I used to have to interview people and we were told NEVER to bring up age. I also look really young for my age (plus I went back to school when I was older) so, in my last design job one of my superiors treated me literally like a child. One day he actually slapped my hand telling me to use both hands and learn shortcuts!!! I had a major talk with him- but it will probably follow you throughout your career. I think just being confident and confronting those people will help you out. I'd say- don't work for that guy if he can't even act professional in an interview!

Spiderella,
I would agree with mouse- it can turn out to be a nightmare project if your friend doesn't know what he's getting into. Especially when your in school and trying to concentrate on your own work. Just make sure you get money up front and that you guys have a contract. It could be a good way to learn to negotiate!
spiderella
Thanks mouse and smarttart - your advice helped a lot. I talked to the guy and he says he's working on finding a publisher, and he realizes can't afford a whole lot of artwork at the moment. He looked at my work and says he might like me to do some of the smaller, "detail" sort of illustrations to stick here and there. So in time I'll know - he still wasn't clear about how many he wants, but if he decides I'm the one for the job I'll make sure a formal agreement is decided upon. I'll update on what happens next!
Muffy
I went to a job interview last week at a school to work in the communications dept. and everyone was great, but I wonder if I didn't totally blow it when they asked me where I saw my career going. Clearly one tries to adjust this answer to the job interview that they are sitting at, I never know what to say to this! Any advice?

Since it was an art related job I said that I would eventually like to be working in the arts field preferrably at a company or institution that is doing good for the world. I didn't get the job by the way.
nickclick
i hate that question. like really, are you supposed to say - well, this job would look great on my resume but i really have no plans of staying that long ??? i guess it's best to suck up and say that you aspire to some position that's available within that organization. they can't hold ya to it when you get the job.

that said, muffy, i'm sure you didn't blow it.... next one.....
Muffy
nickclick, true, it probably is one of the stupidest questions that could be asked.
thanks.
mouse
oh my god. i just finished a huge project for the newspaper i've been doing some work for and i can't believe it's done. this week i had one of my best friends visiting from out of town, i also ended up getting super sick with a cold/earache, and still had to work fulltime so i hardly had any time to work on the project and when i did i'd feel super guilty about not entertaining my friend--but it was a last-minute assigment and the biggest thing they've ever given me to do so i couldn't turn it down. thankfully i got it done at the very last minute i could have (uh, at 6am this morning after staying up all night) and they like it, but i'm gonna go brag about that in the "i did it!' thread instead. but WHEW, that's over. would've been so much easier if i didn't have that pesky fulltime job... but the past few months have been so chock full of things and visitors that my savings haven't budged an inch and are still the same amount they were a couple of months ago. i've plateaued...bleh.
Muffy
mouse, congrats on finishing despite being sick, that sucks. I hate having to work when I just want to crawl into bed and die.

I am sort of excitied to have gotten a part-time job at an art gallery. I've been searching for another job or a least a part time job. I have two art degrees and the job market is awful. thankfully it should pay enough between that job and the other part-time job I have I can finally get off those part-time unemployment benefits and function!
Muffy
has anyone every writen a proposal for an art exhibition? There's this cool exhibit that goes on in downtown Providence (RI) where they use store fronts to show art, and I'd love to be part of this, but I've never writen a proposal before! any advice?
mouse
hmm, muffy i've never done that. i don't know what to suggest! sorry!

i came in to say--SONIK! THANK YOU SO MUCH! thanks to your suggestion, i sent my stuff to faesthetic last year, and i just got the email today--I'M IN!!!!!!!! HOLY CRAP YAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! now i jsut have to put together a two page spread by next month--YIKES! are you doing it this year too??????
sonik
Congrats on the job, Muffy! I've never written a proposal for an art exhibition..maybe you could cruise the internet, see what other people are doing regarding exhibitions and maybe you'll get some inspiration out of it. Good luck!

That's so cool, Mouse!! No, i'm not in this year, i forgot to send a mail, but maybe i'll participate in the next one. Let us know what you're doing with that 2 page spread!! Good luck with that!
Faesthetic is a very nice publication, with lots of good work. Because it's in black and white only it really stands out.

I'm very happy to say that 4 of my works got selected for Luerzer's Archive: 200 Best Illustrators Worldwide!

Mouse, do you know anything about Society of Illustrators in New York? Or any other initiatives surrounding illustrations in the U.S.?
mouse
sonik, i don't...there's the society of illustrators in new york like you mentioned, and i know there's sila (same thing but in LA), and there's a society of children's book illustrators, but really i don't think there's all that much. there's the graphic artist's guild, i suppose. we gotta kind of go it alone over here.


are you thinking of moving?

oh, and DAMN--200 best illustrators in the WORLD! way to upstage my little faest victory tongue.gif congratulations, that's freaking awesome!!!!!
sonik
Yeah sorry..i honestly didn't mean to upstage you on the Faesthetic thing!

No, i'm not thinking about moving, but i know some illustrators over here who get their work published in the Society of Illustrators annuals. I also like to branche out abroad, work-wise.

I was at this little festival (four days) in one of the north provinces of NL this weekend and it was amazing!! It's called the Natural Networking Festival and everyone makes the venue work by helping out or giving workshops (about 'listening to your inner silence', yoga, dancing, web 2.0, brainjams about personal branding, massage, reiki, lifehacking, talking about personal goals and desires and how to reach them). I helped out in the kitchen. Most of the visitors have their own company, or have the desire to do so. People were openminded, interesting and interested in eachother, and it was very easy to mingle and to have meaningful conversations. The food was great, soup servings out of a cannon 24 hours a day, a hot tub, tipis in which the workshops were given, and a tent called 'the living room', with books, a bar, and comfortable chairs.
I'll be there next year, that's for sure!

Muffy
Thanks Sonik!
Congrats to you as well, best 200 illustrators, wow!!!

I wasn't looking for concept ideas I was actually looking for what things should be in a well written proposal. I managed to find this link if anyone else out there needs to know how to write a proposal: http://www.smfa.edu/PDFs/TheArtofProposals.pdf
Also I employed two friends to read over what I had written, one is an english professor, the other an artist.

And Mouse congrats on faesthetic. I've never heard of them, so I just googled them, very nice.


mouse
oh, sonik, i'm totally teasing you! to be honest, i have to say you're definitely one of my top role models wub.gif sorry if that's weird.....hahahaaa

that festival sounds really awesome--but what do you mean they were serving soup out of a cannon!? *intrigued, imagines getting splatted in face by cannonball of soup*

oh, and somebody posted something on illustrationmundo about the society of illustrators of LA illustration west contest--i think the deadline might be this weekend? check it out!
greenbean
Congrats Art Busties on the recent announcements!!

I have a question I hope someone can answer. At my job I've been comfortable doing basic illustration and design work, but I don't want to stay at my current job forever. I really want to take some classes in graphic art to modernize my portfolio, so heres my dilemma: should I spend a shitload on art school again (I just want a couple classes, not grad school) or should I save money and take city college courses? The opinions I've gotten from people already are split, (some say art school is a scam, others say city colleges are behind) and really I think it all depends on the teacher, and youre at risk of getting a bad teacher at any school. Anyway, blah blah blah. Does anyone have two cents?
mouse
hey greenbean--i'd go with the community college courses. honestly i feel like all you need is the basics of knowing a program; anything further is going to come from *you*. a teacher isn't going to tell you how to implement your style (ESPECIALLY if you've already gone to art school), they're just going to teach you how to use the tools. and really, in this industry, your schooling doesn't count for shit, but your portfolio does...and nobody's gonna help you get that extra spark except you. honestly, i'd pay for (or pirate, *cough*) the programs and teach them to myself instead of even taking a class. do some research beforehand and see what you can do on your own. it's remarkable what this city can do for you if you're proactive. good luck!



(p.s. wanna hang out and talk shop one of these days?)
Muffy
greenbean, I'm with mouse on this one. Art school can only give you the tools you provide the talent. Sure if you were going to get a grad degree art school would be the way to go, but many community colleges are up to par.
dusty
QUOTE(greenbean @ Sep 12 2007, 01:46 AM) *
Congrats Art Busties on the recent announcements!!

I have a question I hope someone can answer. At my job I've been comfortable doing basic illustration and design work, but I don't want to stay at my current job forever. I really want to take some classes in graphic art to modernize my portfolio, so heres my dilemma: should I spend a shitload on art school again (I just want a couple classes, not grad school) or should I save money and take city college courses? The opinions I've gotten from people already are split, (some say art school is a scam, others say city colleges are behind) and really I think it all depends on the teacher, and youre at risk of getting a bad teacher at any school. Anyway, blah blah blah. Does anyone have two cents?


Is there any way you can pick your course based on the teacher?
greenbean
Thanks guys! Yeah I would perfer to save money and go to city college, and since I missed the cut-off for enrollment this semester, I have plenty of time to research teachers.

QUOTE
honestly, i'd pay for (or pirate, *cough*) the programs and teach them to myself

I tried this when I developed my website and had too much trouble, so I finally bit the bullet and paid someone to teach me. I just think I learn better when a real life person is helping me. A friend recomended Lynda.com but I haven't really checked it out yet. I need discipline!

And yeah mouse, pm me! My scedule is pretty flexible this weekend/week.

ETA: I just found out there is an art program here in LA run by Scientologists! Eeek! Its called Mission: Renaissance! Ha! I wonder if Tom Cruise named it that.

Uh, oh, now that I've typed that they might come after me...
Muffy
ugh. I just recieved my alumni newsletter via email... nothing is more depressing than reading about people who graduated last year, with art degrees, who are more successful than you. For some stupid reason I read the entire thing, anyways.. I got towards the end and listed there is a girl I graduated with. Not only is she more successful than me but has been alledgedly since she was working in NYC and just moved back and landed a job at a design studio. meanwhile I spent several months recieving part-time unemployement after my part-time graphic design job layed me off. I was excited over landing a 2 day a week gallery associate job because that meant I could get off part-time unemployement. Its not that I don't think the woman deserved it, I recall her work she was good. I just wish I could say I've been equally successful... and not feel so depressed over my lack of success.
sonik
(((Muffy))) i've been there. Don't let the other people's achievements get you down. That's easier said than done. You can make the choice not to read future newsletters. Or you can look at it from another angle; the achievements of other artists can motivate you or maybe you read something that is a eye opener, something to implement in your own way to success and can help you getting started as well, who knows. If you're feeling down, i advise you not to read those mails. But if you're feeling more upbeat, maybe it can get you fired up, ready to take things on, no matter how futile things may seem at the moment. We all have to start somewhere, and everyone goes about it in a different way. . Just look straight ahead and keep going.

Greenbean, Lynda.com is quite good, i hear.

Mouse, i suspected teasing..but i wanted to say it just the same, you know..And i'm totally flattered that you see me as a role model..!!
thanks for mentioning that L.A. contest. I didn't have time to send something in, but i'll make a note of it.
About the soup cannon; they didn't shoot with it, they just modified it so soup can be cooked and served out of it. It looked pretty neat!
sonik
Ok my new website is up. I'm very happy about this because the navigation uses the screen more efficiently.

It's here
Muffy
sonik, love your your work. Impressive.
mouse
stellar, ytje, as per usual. i wish i had your talent for buildings and landscapes! and yes, this one is easier to navigate than your old site. awesome update!
sonik
Thank you, gals!

I realise that i took the same idea as you had, Mouse, for the subway map for a background. In fact, it was P. who suggested i should draw something like it for background to give it a sketch-y feel.
mouse
hooray for subway maps!
glassk
congrats mouse, and OUCH
mouse
glassk--ouch??? blink.gif
glassk
hahah.a............... i am really confused as to what I was replying to, as well? Sorry? I don't have any idea what i was talking about.........

but kindof suspecting I was drunk-posting........... or something? beats me.........
knorl05
i dont know if i should post this in this thread or the sex is hard work thread... but...

so i'm considering being a part of some erotic art, by modeling in fetish gear or simply dark artistic nudes. the thing is, i'm kind of shy when it comes to my body. i'm not shy when it comes to sex, but i am shy when it comes to attention being on my body.. unless it's with someone i trust. i have some issues with fetish art as well. i love it, aesthetically, but then i question the quality and integrity of the art. and i wonder, do i really want to be a part of it, to that degree, if i have reservations about it?

any feedback?
Muffy
knorl05, I've created erotic art and I'm also an artist model. I'm going to be curating an erotic art exhibit in February at a MA cooperative art gallery, and we already had one person at the gallery concerned over erotic art vs. porn. I suppose it is a fine line.

But as for modeling...you really need to be comfortable with your own body especially for nude modeling. I usually model for classes. Though if you do model at someone's studio, I highly recommend having a friend come along with you, kind of like a chaperon. A reputible artist will be perfectly fine with this.

I believe its a personal choice to model for fetish art. If its something you feel you want to pursue, go for it. If you have reservations, however, I would really think about it before going into it.
tankgirl
I second what Muffy said. With anytype of modeling really, always have a friend accompany you. Better be safe than sorry, esp with fetish artists.

I once consitered doing some fetish modeling but changed my mind because the artist didnt seem pleased with me having my boy come with me. I'm glad I didnt because I then looked at his site and looked up some of his models and found some that were only 17, not okay with me at all, besides being illegal.

All I can give you for advice, is make sure youre comfortable with doing it first and if you back out after saying you will model, you could be wasting the artists time. Just be safe about it.
knorl05
thank you for your replies.. muffy and tankgirl.

i've decided to go ahead and do it. i've wanted to for some time now, and i'm not getting any younger, so why not. i'm actually pretty excited about it.. one of my friends who is a professional (starting off) photographer has offered to shoot me so i'm going to go ahead with it. ;o

i'll post in here how it goes after it's done, although it may be a few months from now.
tankgirl
bump...

just because this thread shouldn't be on the bottom.
glassk
I started a blog, because i want to think about art more, so I'm going to try to post often. I've got a few entries up now. smile.gif

artmash-up.blogspot.com

I want to talk about things I find interesting, and teaching art, and pretty things, thus, the 'mash-up'......
feedback if you can.
Muffy
I wanted to get my MFA and I was hoping (as I have for the past three years) to be able to apply this year... at least with a masters I could teach if all else fails, and many art field jobs want it now. grrr. I am so not happy. I threw away all my grad school catologs because as of now the hope of applying to grad school is pretty much a lost cause. I work retail, have at least $2000 worth of medical bills, and had the vain hope that I would've found a second or better paying job by now... I'm so disappointed.

I'm sick of people telling me its going to get better, I'd like them to tell me exactly when it's going to get better at least I'd have something to look forward to.
sonik
I'm sorry to hear that, Muffy.


I'm in the process of getting my Christmas card ready. If you like to get one as well you can PM me your address (if you're comfortable with that).

ETA: i like your blog, Glassk! Am i right in saying that you did want to do something/ had applied to a school as a teacher? Because i think your posts might fit well into a lesson program of some sort in art class.
smarttart
question for freelance illustrators,
What sources do you guys use for sending out promos?
I've started to put together a list for mailings, but I don't know if I should go ahead and buy one through like adbase or just compile it myself (which seems like a lot of work!!)

I've been using the Artists and G.D. market book but it seems like it doesn't have too many mags.

Anyone heard of mastheads.org?

thanks for any help!
sonik
Hey Smarttart, i use the contacts i found myself (mags or companies i'd like to work for) people who mail me, and the addresses my agent provides me (inquests for assignments i did or did not get). Curiousity is a good feat when it comes to freelancing. You find all kinds of cool companies when staying in touch with zum beispiel Drawn.ca, Illustrationmundo.com, k10k.net, Designiskinky.com. And those are just a few. Just pick up some copies of magazines you'd like to work for, find out who's the Art Director, and start up a directory of your own. If you're starting out i would advise you not to buy directories (depends on how much money it costs, but if you make curiousity your second nature you'll save yrself some dollars!), but trust your own judgment.

Good luck!
smarttart
Thanks Sonik!
I have started gathering addresses and names from magazines and other companies. One other question, some magazines have a few different offices listed- like corporate, editorial, main, publishing....how do you know which one to send to?
Do you ever call them to get that info or names of art directors?


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