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knorl05
thank you busties, i really value your input... very much so.
mouse
so kind of out of nowhere i've become involved in a tiny start-up design/branding/identity firm. this is with my good friend and his good friend (who i didn't previously know). they are both awesome at dealing with clients and project managing, both things i don't have a lot of experience with, whereas i'm a solid designer and they don't really have the skills/knowledge that i do in that realm. however, they are both saying they want to art direct and god help me but i can't deal with their aesthetic! the stuff they've shown me has been OK, but nothing has blown me away, and some of it is downright "NO" and just looks embarrassingly amateur. we talked before we decided to go ahead with the project about being honest and critical of each other and how that's necessary, but i feel like--since they both have more experience with the so-called more "professional" parts of this venture--that if i go in and say no to everything i want to say no to...well, it will not be good. but at the same time, i do not want to put my name to something i do not think is good design.

well, shit. anyone have any advice?
sonik
That's a tough one, Mouse. Can you wrap the criticism you have into some subtle package? Because i understand you don't want to put your name under something you don't wholeheartedly agree with, especially when you gut tells you so. Maybe in lieu of saying 'no' to things they show you, you can put in constructive criticism of how they can improve. It's important you're honest from the get-go. It sounds like a good opportunity, but make sure what you get yourself into. Good luck!


knorl05
..please excuse the interruption...
but i think these are good quotes and i'd like to share: "The aim of art is to represent not the outward appearance of things, but their inward significance." -Aristotle "In art the best is good enough." -Johann Wolfgang von Goethe
Be|Different Magazine
girltrouble
hey! i should have done this sooner.

i was wondering if i could get some feedback on my artist's statement:

QUOTE
It has been said that a transexual's story is written on their body, my work is concerned with that idea--- the body and the word, construction and self-construction. If one is familiar with the work of w.e.b. debois, it is a reframing of the "twoness" concept refocused on transgenderism. the construction is used externally visually-- in the meditation on archetypes of pop-culturally constructed women-- galatea, eliza doolittle, the bride of frankenstein, the robot maria from metropolis, that are the subject of the paintings. They are often permenant-- sometimes etched, in spray paint, or marker that will sometimes eat thru other parts of the work. The self construction is addressed by the words written on the canvas-- the subtext to the image. Often written in pencil or chalk around the central figure of the piece. They are transitory, evolving, ever changing. It is using words to define oneself and one’s place in the world. It is the internal monologue of understanding oneself as one constructs oneself. It’s the breaking away of the soul from what one is supposed to be to grow into what one wants to be. the external vs. the internal. the visual, seen, body vs. the soul, the heart, the brain.


too much? too long? too....?
girltrouble
please?
mouse
GT, this is RAD. i don't think it's too long at all, and it's really interesting. i do, however, have a bunch of grammatical peeves. forgive me if this wasn't what you asked for, i have a hard time keeping my ersatz-english-major paws off any piece of writing offered up for criticism. i'm not trying to be pedantic or assholic (and please kick my butt if i sound like i am) but i am 110% of the belief that proper grammar & punctuation can do wonders for professionalism.

It has been said that a transexual's story is written on their body.
[This should be two stand-alone sentences]
My work is concerned with that idea--- the body and the word, construction and self-construction.

If one is familiar with the work of w.e.b. debois [W.E.B. DuBois], it is a reframing of the "twoness" concept refocused on transgenderism.
[This sentence doesn't really make any sense. Starting with an "if" implies a later "then", but you haven't got one. Also, using reframing and refocus in the same sentence sounds a little redundant. I'd change it to say something like "It refocuses W.E.B. DuBois' concept of "twoness" on transgenderism" or "It applies W.E.B. DuBois' concept of "twoness" to transgenderism". If you want to get long-winded about it, you could say "If one is familiar with the work of W.E.B. DuBois, one will recall the "twoness" concept. This work reframes that concept in the context of transgenderism"]

the construction is used externally visually-- in the meditation on archetypes of pop-culturally constructed women-- galatea, eliza doolittle, the bride of frankenstein, the robot maria from metropolis, that are the subject of the paintings.

[When you separate a part of your sentence with dashes on either side, it should be a clause--i.e., the sentence should make sense whether or not the part in between the dashes is there. I think you want the names of the women to be the clause, rather than "in the meditation...". Also, I'm not sure if you need both externally and visually--are they saying the same thing? Either way, they don't quite feel right next to each other without commas. Also, I'd use "who" instead of "that". How about: "Externally [or leave out externally completely], the construction is used visually in the meditation on archetypes of the pop-culturally constructed women--Galatea, Eliza Doolittle, the Bride of Frankenstein, & the robot Maria from Metropolis--who are the subject of the paintings." ]


They are often permenant
[permAnent--and WHAT is permanent? The medium you used? The technique? Right now it sounds like you're still talking about the women.]

-- sometimes etched, in spray paint, or marker that will sometimes eat thru [thrOUGH] other parts of the work.
[is this "sometimes etched in spray paint, other times in marker" or "sometimes etched, sometimes in spray paint, other times in marker" or "sometimes etched, sometimes in spray paint or marker"? Also, this might need to be adjusted depending on what comes before it. You could probably do away with the "permanent" clause altogether, or turn it into its own sentence.]

The self construction [I think this wants a hyphen] is addressed by the words written on the canvas-- the subtext to the image.
[I'd take out the dashes and make it two sentences: "The self-construction is addressed by the words written on the canvas. They are the subtext to the image."]

Often written in pencil or chalk around the central figure of the piece.
[DANGER! SENTENCE FRAGMENT!! AAAH! How about "The words are often written in pencil or chalk around the central figure of the piece", or tacking it onto the previous sentence: "They are the subtext of the image, often written in pencil or chalk around the central figure of the piece"]

They are transitory, evolving, ever changing. [This also wants a hyphen: ever-changing]

It is using words to define oneself and one's place in the world.
[WHAT is? It's unclear what you mean by "It is". Try "The words are used to define oneself..." or "This writing..." or however you would define it. You switched from "They" to "It"--keep pronouns consistent (and yes, I recognize the irony of that sentence in the context of your work tongue.gif)]

It is the internal monologue of understanding oneself as one constructs oneself.
[See above. If you say "the writing" you can use it, if you say "the words" use "they are". Choose either singular or plural and stick with it.]

It is the breaking away of the soul from what one is supposed to be to grow into what one wants to be.
[Ditto]

the external vs. the internal. the visual, seen, [I would either put "seen" in parentheses or use a slash: "visual/seen"] body vs. the soul, the heart, the brain.

[More sentence fragments. This can be one long sentence like so: "It is the breaking away of the soul from what one is supposed to be to grow into what one wants to be: the external vs. the internal, the visual (seen) body vs the soul, the heart & the brain."]

SO!


"It has been said that a transexual's story is written on their body. My work is concerned with that idea--- the body and the word, construction and self-construction. It refocuses W.E.B. DuBois' concept of "twoness" on transgenderism.

The construction is used visually in the meditation on archetypes of pop-culturally constructed women--Galatea, Eliza Doolittle, the Bride of Frankenstein, & the robot Maria from Metropolis--who are the subject of the paintings. The media used is often permanent. Sometimes the pieces are etched in spray paint, other times drawn in marker that will sometimes eat through other parts of the work.

The self-construction is addressed by the words written on the canvas. They are the subtext of the image, often written in pencil or chalk around the central figure of the piece. They are transitory, evolving, ever-changing.
The artwork uses words to define oneself and one's place in the world. The writing is the internal monologue of understanding oneself as one constructs oneself. It is the breaking away of the soul from what one is supposed to be to grow into what one wants to be: the external vs. the internal, the visual (seen) body vs. the soul, heart & brain."

All in all--it sounds effing awesome, and now i really want to go see a show of your work!!!
girltrouble
oh no, mouse. that's what i am looking for. thank you so very much. you've gone above and beyond the call of duty. like way above and way beyond... you are the greatest! <3 <4 <5!
mouse=kikayis!

i think i need to rethink my phrasing, many of the errors you point out are chronic issues in my writing. i tend to write like i paint, get it on the canvas first then whittle the color down. thank you for the phenomenal polish. you're a dear!
girltrouble
i added a bit for a bit more clarity, but it's hard to improve upon what you've done....




"It has been said that a transexual's story is written on their body. My work is concerned with that idea--- the juxtaposition of body and the word, construction and self-construction, text and subtext. It refocuses W.E.B. DuBois' concept of "twoness" on transgenderism.

The construction is used visually in the meditation on archetypes of pop-culturally constructed women--Galatea, Eliza Doolittle, the Bride of Frankenstein, & the robot Maria from Metropolis--who are the subject of the paintings. The media used is often permanent, bold, solid. Sometimes the pieces are in spray paint, other times drawn in marker that will sometimes eat through other parts of the work.

The self-construction is addressed by the words written on the canvas. They are the subtext of the image, often written in pencil or chalk around the central figure of the piece. They are transitory, evolving, ever-changing, mercurial.

The artwork uses words to define oneself and one's place in the world. The writing is the internal monologue of understanding oneself as one constructs oneself. It is the breaking away of the soul from what one is supposed to be to grow into what one wants to be: the external vs. the internal, the visual (seen) body vs. the soul, heart & brain."
dj-bizmonkey
wow. i've never been in here before.

gt- judging from your statement, your art is something i really want to experience!!

i have a kind of random question, but i figured the only people to ask would be artists. all through college i worked as a figure model on the side to make extra cash for booze and herb. it was a great gig and i really loved it. i did some work for art classes at the school and i had a longstanding job with a local sculptor. i want to get back into it here in NOLA but i don't really know where to begin. because i'm funded by the university, i'm not permitted to have a "real" job, i.e. one where i'd have to fill out a W-2. that prohibits me from working in any unversity art department. where do i begin? i don't know how to get plugged back into the scene and i really miss meeting local artists and the extra money. any thoughts?
mouse
gt, that sounds fantastic! i don't have anything else to suggest. i think you hit it on the head smile.gif i really want to see....sigh!

dj--you could contact the art schools/classes in the area, but a lot of times if you do work through the school it will be recorded and not under the table. you could also print up a flyer and post it in your local art stores/bookstores/coffeeshops and see who replies, post on craiglist, or find other internet message boards/classifieds for your area. good luck!
girltrouble
hi biz! thanks for the note the other day. you rawk!

lol... well, the artist statement is kind of where i start, and build the art around it. sort of backwards. my style is pretty much solidified, but i need to articulate what i want to do first, then paint... right now i'm trying to incorporate power tools (grinders, drills, etc) so i'm at a trial and error stage in what i do, so we will see.... soon as i can i'll put some pix up!

thanks for the help, mouse. hey, could you send me link to your site again?
Muffy
dj-bizmonkey, if you can't fill out W-2's I wouldn't sugguest working for a university as most, even as an artist model will make you fill them out, at least here in RI they do. Are there any non-profits that hold a figure drawing session or classes you could call? Those usually pay pretty well and sometimes its cash, free and clear, no paper trail, no W-2's.

girltrouble, your artist statement is very well written, now we need to see you work smile.gif
AsparagusBerry
Hello all, I am pretty new to this forum...I am a graphic designer...or shall I say, a wanna be, out of work graphic designer...I have recently graduated, and have had absolutely no luck whatsoever finding a design job...let alone any job that pays over minimum wage...are any other designers out there, and are you experiencing this too?
Muffy
AsparagusBerry, yes! The design industry in Rhode Island is dead, much like our economy in general - moving is out of the question as I don't have the funds to do so - unless one enjoys working in the art department located in the back office at a large faceless corporation that pays jack-shit, and even those jobs are hard to get. I've been laid off from not one, but two of these type of graphic design jobs. And they took me a months to land! I've never had what anyone would consider a decent job, I work retail for slightly above minimum wage. I've been out of college for 8 years before I decided f this, and went back to school to be a teacher. I commend anyone who is in fact making a living out of being a graphic designer. Maybe I'm just not cut out for it.
mouse
hi asparagus! welcome!

i'm actually a graphic designer with a fulltime design job (and some freelance, i like to keep SUPER busy apparently :/), but i'm in LA where the demand is definitely greater than most other places. i don't know where you're located, but have you looked into creative staffing agencies? aquent (http://www.aquent.com/) is i think national; and creative circle (http://www.creativecircle.com/) is in several major cities. i've actually gotten a few jobs from them and am still on their roster, and there are always at least three or four postings a day. i'm sure if you google staffing agencies as well you could find something in your area. it's hard to get in the door with little experience, so it helps to have someone back you--and if it's a reputable company, it's free (distrust agencies that take a cut...that should be coming from the employer who went to them to find you, not your pocket).

i think it really does depend on your portfolio moreso than your experience, so my only advice to you would be to put together all the stuff you did in school, and if necessary, give yourself some "fake" projects just to showcase what you can do. they're not gonna care as much if it wasn't actually sold as long as it was executed well. keep yourself informed and up to date on design trends, read design blogs and check out other designers' work. learn as many programs as you can and just keep looking for whatever you can get, even if it's some tiny job off craigslist for mediocre pay--if it gets you a good portfolio/resume piece at this point in the game it's worth it. everybody has to pay their dues and you can only go up!

also, a lot of times schools will have job boards for their alumni--have you looked into something like this?

good luck!
girltrouble
hey...whatever became of art busties?

so art busties, and not so artsy busties, what artists do you like?

i think everybody likes james jean, and i know mouse and i love the silvia ji, and i love the mac, but who do you like? say the top 5 or 10 with links if possible...
mouse
to be honest i'm getting a little tired of james jean, but maybe that's the jealousy talking wink.gif

i wasn't aware of the mac, gt, but his stuff is AMAZING!!

some i love are the superstars of line-art jillian tamaki, tomer hanuka, derek kirk kim, evan hecox, jordan crane, craig thompson and our very own sonik.

going in other directions, i love love love meg hunt, ray fenwick, & s britt.

some designers i really hate (by which i mean adore their work and can't handle my own jealousy towards) are
kim dulaney (someday i WILL Have her job), & chip kidd.

i also love a bunch of older illustrators like trina schart hyman, irene haas, edward ardizzone, edward lear (yes he drew pictures too!)...

that's just the tip of the iceberg, too...
girltrouble
yay mouse! yeah, there are some phenomenal graff artists out there. i'm sure you know miss van too. i love her stuff, although it is getting a bit old too. hey do you know any good careers for the artistically inclined mouse? i'm thinking of broadcast graphics or movie titles since i love letters, typography etc....

and yay for sonic! i've never seen any of her work. i like it! and well you know i adore your stuff mouse.

i'm slowly building a blog and i'm trying to wrap my head around how to have an oekaki bbs page like skullbites.com that will let me use a drawing pad and java applets, but i'm out of my depth... hmph.

ETA:i am in love with jillian t. she reminds me of a comic artist david mazuchelli (or something like that.) i love that sort of brush work. it's just lovely.





i'll have to take a look at the other ones you posted..
mouse
gt, this is quick because it's super late and i should be in bed (i went to bed like two hours ago, but instead of falling asleep i got distracted by a silver glitter silicone friend, which somehow had me expend so much energy that i realized i was starving, so i got back up, made an omelette and proceeded to get distracted by the computer) but my ex did motion graphics and it's DEFINITELY a lucrative career. mediocre freelancers get easily $30-40/hour. the most important program is after effects, and an animation background helps a lot. motionographer might give you some inspiration? as far as other careers go, well, i think an artistic bent, good eye & steady hand can be useful in MANY MANY situations. i'm sure there are a million things out there you'd be good at.
Muffy
I did some motion graphics in college back in the day. It was so much fun! I was okay at it but, I don't think I was up to par with my classmates as my school actually had separate majors for those in graphic design and those majoring in motion graphics, I believe they called it "electronic imaging." I may be showing my age here, lol!

to answer gt's question about what artists we like. Oh boy. Many times I will go to an art exhibit around town at a gallery, or alt space - we have plenty of both, we have big art school: RI school or design... and more artists than there are places to exhibit. I think its cool that alot of local businesses are now exhibiting local artists. The thing is I am so bad with names I usually forget who I just went to see! Here's some artists I have found who I bookmarked their sites: raymond teitsma, julia fullerton
vixen_within
oooh why didn't anyone tell me we are talking about comix artists here! I picked up a book at the library called Alice In Sunderland and Brian Talbot has this fantastic mixed media approach to illustrating it Here's one of the pages - there are more beautiful ones but this one was online and shows just what I like - old print mixed with illustration, layered images, collage styles.

I got James Jean to make a cartoon me when he appeared at a comic convention last year -- I have curly hair and was wearing it in two puffs - and his portrait looks like a cute child-like me - true to his style. me given the james jean treatment

There's one more artist I want to mention but her name got lost in my brain fog...

I also like Lorna Simpson

I have a question for art busties. What is the etiquette or legality of using another artist's work in one's own collage or decoupage? When I cut something out of a magazine for a cut and paste project, is there an issue? How about from an art book? How about from a comic book? Would one email the artist(s) for permissions in any of these cases?
mouse
vixen, that's a tough one. generally if you're not going to make money off of it, it's probably fair game. but if you're then selling the art...it gets tricky. it depends on how much of the image you use, how much you alter it, etc. if you have the contact info for the artists you want to use, then by all means contact them and see what they say--but be prepared for a flat out "NO". i think it's a case-by-case basis. for example, an art book published by a company--the company might own rights to images in it, and a comic book might be the domain of both the inker and the colorist, etc. but again, if you're just doing it for fun and not for commercial gain, then go ahead and collage your heart out.

that james jean sketch is rad. how long did it take him to do that, out of curiosity?
vixen_within
I appreciate your perspective on it Mouse. Yeah, I felt like I was standing there for a long time, but it must have only took him about ten minutes. He said he was trying to "get" my hands.
Muffy
vixen, its funny you asked I was just talking about this same thing with a friend who likes to do collage work and a local gallery director. Quite frankly, you need permission though many artists do it without. I have heard that if you alter it its okay, but according to this gallery director, there's still that fine line there and she said, if your selling it "just don't get caught." l know people who use copyrighted images within their art, that they sell, and I have as well. I once sold a painting I had done of a dollar bill (for a lot more than a dollar).
take some petrol darling
the past few years i have been really interested in what's called the golden age of illustration (1880s through the late 1920s or so). i particularly like aubrey beardsley - who you are likely familiar with because of his (for the time) oft-shocking illustrations and connections to oscar wilde amongst other things - but there are others who worked in a similar style who are more than worth pursuing.

harry clarke, irish illustrator and stained-glass maker. unfortunately draws many comparisons to beardsley, which means he's gotten a bit overshadowed/become a bit underappreciated. he illustrated for some works of edgar allan poe and hans christian andersen. he is most famous for his countless beautiful stained glass works, many of which can be seen in ireland. i think his work in stained glass is some of the most beautiful and dynamic i've ever seen.






kay nielsen, danish illustrator who illustrated many fairytales and grimm stories. he also briefly worked for disney in the 1930s - he did some work on 'fantasia'.



there are so many others, but those two are my particular favorite. the golden age of illustration wasn't indicative of any one style - john tenneil, for instance, who illustrated the 'alice' stories, would be considered part of this age, but his work draws little comparison to clarke and nielsen.






Queen Bull
WOW. Petrol Darling, i love that first piece by harry Clarke. the detail is AMAZING.

I really like lesser known artists and photographers. I usually jsut find them when i am browsing around Deviant Art. I love that site, I have found so many of my favorite artists there.

I really like this guys work. Its All cutouts in a classic pinup girl style. So cute.

take some petrol darling
thanks, queen bull! i'm glad you enjoyed the harry clarke -- you should look at some more of his images online. what sets him apart from beardsley, i think, is that while they were both masters of the finely detailed pen-and-ink illustrations, clarke's figures possess a certain form and grace that beardsley's never quite did. perhaps if beardsley hadn't passed away so young, he would have developed in a way similar to clarke. (this is not to say that beardsley is without his virtues. i love beardsley.)

i like that fella's stuff too, the link you posted to DA - it's mod without being cloying or overdone. REALLY cute!!! i agree, browsing deviantart is a great way to find new artists.

one artist who i found in a similar way in about 2000 is johanna ost - a swedish girl only a couple of years older than myself who makes really lovely fairytale and circus pictures.



girltrouble
i meant to post that i love lorna simpson too, vixen. i saw her work at an exhibition where she was paired with basquiat-- it literally changed my life. at one point i was crying. i had never before been effected by art in that way. to this day it is a touchstone to me, and i try (and fail) to make art that is made to be seen live. to make something that effects physically. i'm not there yet, but someday...


ETA: thanks for the link to j.coffee, too, QB, i'm heading in that direction (paper art, not pinup) with my work next year, and i like seeing what's out there so i don't copy and do something different. smile.gif

he looks like he might be influenced by shane glines or bruce timm i used to subscribe to gline's site cartoon retro-- it used to have an amazing forum where people would scan/post some of the amazing retroish or actually retro cartoons they'd found from all over the world. the best stuff, for me atleast was some of the stuff from the 30's. it was almost calligraphic. unfortunately he felt it was over run with spam and he switched to a different forum losing all the work that had been so meticulously documented.
take some petrol darling
i'm not familiar with lorna simpson, girltrouble - is there any place you'd recommend starting? i mean, any particular body/era/piece of work by her? if it gives you such a gut reaction, it's gotta be good.
girltrouble
the thing i like about lorna simpson is that she is of that kind of first wave of modern female artist, like jenny holzer. her work is graphic often using words to illustrate points, but above all for me it is a nuanced documentation of the black experience, specifically a female one. probably the best think i can recommend with any fine artist (as opposed to an illustrator or designer) is to bone up on who they are, and what they are about. what are the concerns of their work? it kind of helps to know what you are looking at. but from there you can just look at her work. wink.gif

take some petrol darling


i'd be curious to hear your reaction to the nurse paintings of richard prince. several of them, including the one somewhat famously used as the cover art for sonic youth's album 'sonic nurse', have been on display at our local modern art museum for the past several months as part of a traveling exhibit on prince. he is notorious for his appropriation of cultural themes and popular images - he's done a series based on the marlboro man that is a pretty interesting exploration of masculinity in advertising, a series where he paints over de kooning reproductions, pieces with cindy sherman, others based on popular fashion advertisements, somewhat tasteless jokes painted on enormous color-blocked canvasses and much more.



i think the nurse paintings are some of his most iconic and they're certainly my favorite of all his cultural appropriations -- prince blew up the covers of '60s pulp novels about nurses on large pieces of canvas and amended them, painting over them and changing the effect of the image dramatically. many look almost violent in nature, with the nurses' lips or throats slashed with a streak of red paint. in 'the nurse of greenmeadow', the one used on the sonic youth album, the nurse looks like she is clutching her bleeding throat. (on the album version, this image is visibly toned down - what appears to be a bleeding wound on the original prince painting is painted over with the novel cover's original flowers.) i left the exhibit with two very different readings of the paintings. the images are, like most of prince's work, celebratory and denigrating all in one. they are so large that they are dominating, almost uncomfortable to be near. in my opinion, the women in the paintings are hypersexualized, their heavily mascaraed eyes peeking over the tops of their surgical masks which cover their noses and mouths like some kind of veil, the kind you see in those popular romanticized 19th century romanticized paintings of harems and odalisques that are now considered heavily orientalist (and rightly so.) i could see the images being perceived as both a condemnation of this kind of sexualization and/or an exploration of it's supposed 'okayness' and pervasiveness of the cultural stigma that is applied to women in the workplace every day. i still like the paintings, but it's interesting to think about what could be behind them.

as an aside, all the text on the paintings is original. they are the titles of the novels.



i took a film class last fall where my professor, a very wise and wonderful women, accused the current younger generation (and our culture at large) of being obsessed with 'violence pornography'. do you see these paintings as a kind of violence pornography, glorifying and sexualizing the perceived abuse the nurses in these paintings seem to have suffered? or is it a comment on the cultural perception and accurate realities of nursing itself? this isn't, of course, the first time such correlations between what was once solely perceived as 'women's work' and sexuality has been drawn. is prince trying to comment on the time period that these images were originally produced and distributed as covers of dime-store novels? is he modernizing the images or painting some kind of internalized fantasy? or, is it something else entirely? does it have more to do with a woman's power in her sexuality rather than the cultural expectation or perception of female sexuality? do these images exoticize or celebrate?



they are really fascinating paintings, like most of richard prince's work. these just particularly resonate with me. i couldn't stop talking about them or thinking about them for at least a week. i know there are a great number of articles on the paintings online but i have only bothered to read one or two, preferring to draw my own conclusions rather than read the snappy remarks of a columnist. but that aside, really, i want to hear anything and everything you have to say about the paintings - as people who appreciate art, who are interested in women's issues, from whatever perspective or background you are coming from.

sorry this was a bit image heavy, but in the context of the discussion, it goes without saying that it's important to see the paintings. wink.gif
take some petrol darling
QUOTE(girltrouble @ Aug 28 2008, 11:47 AM) *
the thing i like about lorna simpson is that she is of that kind of first wave of modern female artist, like jenny holzer. her work is graphic often using words to illustrate points, but above all for me it is a nuanced documentation of the black experience, specifically a female one.


thanks for the links and information, girltrouble! i'm going to take a look into her a bit more, see if i can't find a book about her at our library. i'll be sure to get back to you about what i think.

are you familiar with kara walker? you may find her work interesting as well. we have quite a bit of it here at the walker art center, the same museum that had the richard prince exhibition.




Kara Walker's art takes an irreverent, humorous, goulish, and all-around fantastical look at the underbelly of America's obsessions with race, sex, and violence. Her large black-and-white silhouettes draw from iconography ranging from the pre-Civil War period of America's south, historical romance novels, commercial culture, and slave narratives. Through a "collusion of fact and fiction," she creates a complex reading of history that is at once seductive and terrifying. At first glance, her work appears innocent in its fairytale-like rendering; a closer inspection, however, reveals its many perverse twists and outlandish situations.


on wikipedia
on NPR
some aggregated articles/images about kara walker
girltrouble
i love kara walker. been a fan of hers for some time. my last name is walker and for a while i went by cara, but that had to change for that reason alone.

as for those nurse paintings--- i LOVE THEM!
Muffy
take some petrol darling, hah. I just realized your screenname is a sugarcubes song...

I've loved the nurse paintings since I saw them in some art magazine when he first did them. As someone who does work about gender and sexuality its very exciting to see. I agree they are both sexualized and slightly violent. Its the way he painted them with the dripping paint even though some of its white. Its a little like they are melting right off the canvas. Looking at them I kind of think the women are made to look a little like femme fatale - they look deviant. As someone who spent some time in and out of hospitals as an infant, when I got older I hated doctors, nurses and the color green. I wonder if Richard Prince has the same problem. btw, I finally outgrew my loathing of the color green - still am uncertain of doctors...

Sonic Youth actually used a lot of those images, there's more within the cd sleeve. I think they are friends with him, if memory serves me correctly.




Muffy
quick question. I just received an email from the folks that run the Florence Biennale, they are interested in having me participate for the '09 Biennale. It cost a hell of a lot of money, which I've heard other artists complain about, because its hard to get sponsors... anyone know anything else about it: good, bad or otherwise?
mouse
don't know anything about it, sorry muffy. it sounds impressive but imho, i think one should always be wary of things where YOU have to pay THEM. you're the artist....shouldn't THEY be paying YOU?
girltrouble
i'd love to see your work muffy-- my work is about sex and gender too.
Muffy
mouse, Yeah it does sound impressive. I was in disbelief and still am that I was considered. Its also juried so some people will get some kind of award. Allegedly it doesn't get any funding and the 'registration fee' is to help pay for the space and I assume the award and juror.

I know many art galleries have a fee to submit work, show work or have a juried exhibitions... the fees are to help make money for the gallery, which I understand they need to stay in business. However the fees probably aren't always that bad if you have the dough. Starving artists on the other hand have no way of coughing up an "entry fee" which can run from $10 to $30 or $40. It doesn't even mean you'll get in! I usually just plain avoid the ones that have some kind of fee for the very reason you mentioned, "why should I have to pay you?!" Though I did just agree to do something with my Alma Mata where it costs $10 to exhibit/sell my work at a 'friends and family weekend' that UMASS is having in Oct. I'm kind of excited about it.

girltrouble, here's my site: http://www.geocities.com/superfluousdesigna/
Moonpieluv
GT, do you sell your work on Etsy?

For that matter, does any art busties sell on Etsy? or just like in general...

I'm always looking for new art, and I like it best when it comes from friends/busties..them kinda people.

Thanks for sharing your work, Muffy!
mouse
muffy, i found these:

http://dart.fine-art.com/aqd-asp-im_104287-buy-m.htm

http://www.saatchi-gallery.co.uk/blogon/drupal/node/27250

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Florence_Biennale

$30-$40 for an entrance fee is one thing...$3,000-$4,000 is quite another, not to mention probably doubling that if you want to actually go to the show, and i think that's probably crucial for getting the recognition that would possibly make the entrance fee worth it. also think about shipping costs, food, lodging...i get the impression it is more of an art fair than a gallery exhibition.

you can apparently apply for sponsorship, but to be quite honest, this seems like something for people who are already selling their artwork for thousands of dollars to go and get a wider audience. i think for artists who are less well known it honestly seems like a little bit of a scam. unless you are accustomed to regularly selling artwork at very high prices, i think it would end up being a money hole. however, this is just my two cents--this is not something i personally would do.

((muffy))


moon; i have an etsy shop but it hasn't had anything in it for like a year. i'm inching closer and closer to quitting my full tim job and starting freelancing/working for myself--i have a ton of ideas bouncing around but no time to execute--i just wish the economy was too. arghhhhhhh. and i need a new computer and that is going to cut into my savings even more. bleh.
Muffy
mouse, I just talked to someone from the cooperative art gallery that I belong to who told me to stay away from this show. From the links that you sent me it sounds like there is mixed reviews. I was a little skeptical about having to get sponsorship and how I'd have to sell my work at pretty high prices which if I can't sell it at the prices they are at now, how would they sell at higher prices. I too was thinking about things like shipping over seas and how the hell I'd afford to go to Italy!

Good luck with the new computer. I had to buy a newbie about a year ago it was both scary and exciting to see how fast your money can go. I envy you, you being able to have the ability to freelance.. sometimes I'd like to just be able to work for myself. that's awesome, congrats!


Moonpieluv, no prob : )
vixen_within
I want to bump this thread, but have nothing to add this day.
girl_logic
Whatever happened to art busties?
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