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mouse
ah! numbers. god bless you.
thanks guys, that really helps. but....what's the line between a "big" client and a client on a budget? would my alternative city paper be considered "big"? what about, for example, "bust" herself?

i really think i need to just suck it up and buy the gag pricing guidlines....

but thank you. super helpful :-)

also, i love illustration mundo! i put you both as my favorites, sonik and greenbean. hope that's cool.
mouse
oh! also, sorry for doubleposting but i had a tip for seraphine--something akin to the crushed salt trick that i love to do with watercolor that makes a lovely texture is to drop isopropryl alcohol onto it when it's still wet. experiment, you can do some pretty cool things. also works really well if you lay down a base color, let it dry, and then put a wash of wet, darker color on top and drop the alcohol onto that.
seraphine
Awesome! Thanks so much, mouse. And thanks to everyone else for the other helpful advice! =)
sonik
I don't think Bust is a big client in that aspect. Editorial work pays less than working for Leo Burnett for instance. Asking for their budget when talking about an upcoming assignment is not automatically agreeimg with it. So if you're wondering, just ask.

I finished a series of 3 drawings for a magazine. They emailed me to say how happy they were. I'm happy too, because i drew my friends. My bf recognised them all!
The magazine is the dutch equivalent of the New Yorker. I would love to work for the New Yorker.

Glad someone in here has the know how to help, Seraphine. I only know Photoshop and pencils.
mouse
woo! sonik!

i think most illustrators' ultimate dream is to do work for the new yorker. *sigh* honestly i'd have to say that growing up with the new yorker in the house is probably a huge percentage of why i wanted to become an illustrator.

seeing how many times i can use the word "illustrator" in one post, does anyone else here use the program illustrator much? what are your thoughts on it vs. pshop? i've been having to use it a lot for my fulltime job lately and though i used to be pretty anti, i'm warming up to it a lot.

i think textures make all the difference, i really do.
mouse
wooo new lounge!


YOU GUYS i won honorable mention in the society of children's book writers and illustrators most recent illo contest. wooo! (mine is the last entry)

*dances*
mouse
don't die art busties!!

*sniff*
sonik
Congrats Mouse!!!!!!

I'm participating in a group exhibition that starts in St. Petersburg, FL, and then moves on to Hollywood and then Toronto. Apparently my work, along with an article about the exhibition was int the St. Petersburg Times last week:

http://www.sptimes.com/2006/08/03/Weekend/...g_talents.shtml
altargrrrl
bump for the artsy busties.
gumby_cc
here we are! I've been incredibly creative lately, and been getting a lot of ideas. But my energy is so frenetic that I can't focus on one project and feel like I'm wasting my time.

Has anyone here ever sold photographs? If so, how much did you charge? I sold some (first artwork ever!) to a friend and he thought me price was a little high.
pherber
Yep! Hi gumby!

Well I do illustrations, but a good friend of mine sells photos, and she charges quite a lot, well maybe it depends on what you consider a lot. She'll charge at least 800 Euro, but the photos are large and the production (paper, development) is so expensive, so it's justified.
Maybe that wasn't very helpful, but I can ask her more, next time I see her.



I've never posted in this thread before, so maybe I should introduce myself (and my art)?!
Well this is my deviantART profile.
I hope this is not considered cheesy, self-promo spamming.. unsure.gif
mouse
oh, jeeze, the pricing issue......i think it really, really varies. it varies based on the materials you use, how established you are, who your customers are, where you sell, etc. etc. etc. blah. i think that finding out what pricing works for what is one of the hardest things about being an artist--and people are usually reluctant to talk about it, too. my advice would be to do some research. find some photographers that are similar to you in all the above categories, and see what they're pricing. and don't undersell yourself! it's hard when people aren't familiar with how much stuff actually gets sold for, but hold your ground. if you think you're worth it, you're worth it, you know?

pherber, it's great to see your art! your t-shirts are awesome.....i really want a "tits are alright" tee! i tried to find them on the dada de nada site but unfortunately my german isn't up to the task tongue.gif i had no idea you were in germany. cool smile.gif

i'm an illustrator too--though it's slow going at the moment, as i have a fulltime design job and not a lot of time to work on the illustration freelancing. i like to keep kind of a low profile here but i'm happy to give a link to my site to anyone who pm's me.

i'm glad this thread got bumped! and i'm really pissed i missed sonik's show--i got stranded in atlanta on my way back from pa due to weather....blah.
butterfly
I wondered where the art bustie thread was, and then there it is....

(And I promise I'm not following you around Mouse and Pherber.)

I sell my work direct usually, and with regards to pricing, I'd second what's already been said.

I'd add that it's also about working out what you want to achieve from the sale (raising your profile, funding the next project, paying the electric bill or just having fun) and knowing your market.

There's definately an arguement to say that a certain sector of the market expects to pay a certain amount for a piece of work, and won't value the art work if it's "too cheap".
Others like the idea of getting someone good early in their career (before their pricing rises).
Others just fall in love, and either can or can't raise the cash.
So it goes around and around in a circle, in the end you have to do what feels right to you.

Personally I'd rather sell a lot of work under the market value, than not very much for the "right" price. But that's just me, and I get told off for it from time to time.

Apparently Paula Rega (who I like very much) got caught into a trap. Her prices went very high, and she apparently priced herself out of her market. It's hard to bring them down once they've gone up.

Selling to friends is so fraught. I hate it, and always try to get out of it if I can- so double well done for your first sale!!
mouse
very good points, butterfly. out of curiosity, what kind of art do you do?
butterfly
yeah, I thought afterwards that I should have said something about that!

I am having the fear of the interwebs, and part of me wants to say look what I do, and the other part of me really doesn't! oh I don't know......

eta.sorry....can't do it! I'll pm you
mouse
understood completely, i feel the same way. happy to oblige and show off heh if someone requests it, but i'm not gonna put it all out there.

well, i did do my avatar... tongue.gif
butterfly
I noticed you'd changed it! When you scroll down the page quickly, he changes into a sun. (simple things...)
Did you do the mouse as well?
mouse
nope, that was from meomi.
butterfly
ooooh, cartoons!
so, does the design work clash with the freelancing, I mean is it more than just not enough time?
I don't know, I find it hard to think about two different projects at once- like even in my down time, it's still all rolling around my head. So I can see how it'd be hard to switch from one to another project if they were totally different ways of working or something.

I'm mesmerized by Slo-Mo Sloth. He is moving! It's pretty hypnotic. Or am I just really tired?
mouse
it does. haha i've been pming you too, this is a weird way to carry on a conversation!
i've actually learned a lot of new techniques through the design job (ie, i never used to work in adobe illustrator, i used to do everything by hand, but now i *LOVE* illustrator and kick ass at it) and it's opened up an entirely new style for me. so i have to kind of re-evaluate my personal style and figure out how to combine my new design skills with my old traditional drawing technique. and of course, get a portfolio together in this new style, so i can get more jobs, etc. etc.......i kind of feel like i'm starting from scratch now, which is both frustrating and sort of "clean slate".
butterfly
Sorry it is confusing...
I've just been all over the meomi site. It's v. cute, but also pretty witty.

It sounds like it'd be pretty tough to do all that alongside every thing else you do.
Can you go back to an old project- maybe even something you aren't all that about, just to practise your skillzz in that way of working without having to rethink the actual idea too?
Does that make ANY sense?
I blame slo-mo!!
pherber
Ladies, you couldn't have described that pricing dilemma any better!


butterfly, you're not a stalker! laugh.gif (I'm still LOLing, because that remark was so cute laugh.gif )
...maybe there's a spooky art/AS connection. unsure.gif laugh.gif



mouse, I'll pm you about the T-Shirt!
I'm not sure if it's appropriate, to use the forum for selling stuff, even if the shirts are a non-profit thing, (they use the money to finance underground art exhibitions)
Coincidence: the girl in the "tits" t-shirt is the photographer I mentioned.
gumby_cc
Yeah, Pherber your tshirt is funny.....

I'm stressing because the photos I had printed to sell to my friend got messed up at the store....thankfully the negatives are fine but now I've got to fine another place to do it, and I have to go back and complain, wah wah wah.....
pherber
Thanks!


What a drag, that your photos got messed up. sad.gif
butterfly
Pherber I can't see why it would be a problem about the t-shirts, especially as they're so cool!
I like the mod design, and really like your black and white figurative stuff.

Gumby that is shitty about the photos- the place you had them developed didn't realise they were wrong?
I don't know where you live (obviously) but if it's a reasonable size city there may well be an independant photography studio that develops film professionally. I mean not like the franchise places.
Is that an obvious thing to say? Sorry, if it is!
Good luck, and don't worry about complaining- they messed up!
butterfly
Pherber, I just came across this thread- so I guess it absolutely is ok to link to your own stuff!!
self promotion smile.gif
mouse
i just wanna say i'm really happy that this thread is active again wub.gif
pherber
Oh, I know the self promo thread!
I've actually been referring to that, when I said "I hope it's not too self promo" sorry, I didn't make that very clear...
we always used that thread, to keep the other threads free of spam, (I dunno if that's a good explanation unsure.gif ) that's why I felt a bit awkward, of linking my stuff here.

Anyways, it was just a way of introducing, because we all specialize in so many different artforms.. fuck, I don't know if any of this makes sense! laugh.gif

I wish I knew more about photography, so I could contribute something more helpful for gumby. sad.gif


ETA: mouse, I wub.gif your beautiful illustrations!
wombat
You guys, I was at a computer artists' meeting last night!
And there are two web sites you should check out!

One is iStock, apparently you can sell your own photos there! they have the structures up and if someone wants to use your photos they have to pay! And you can get little revenue streams going and just throw stuff up to see what sticks!

Also - elance.com. You can bid on jobs that people post, and they post ratings of how you did and how much money you make on jobs on the site, the more established and good you are, the more your numbers go up in both! It's kinda like an ebay for freelance work! And you can send/they can send you work from all over the world!

You have to have good home computers, software and internet connection of course, but many of us have that!
mouse
aw, i got all excited about elance....but i'm wary of things that make you pay to get jobs. meh.
wombat
I don't know about "meh"

8 bucks a month, when they are hosting your samples and all, doesn't seem like a lot - they are getting tons of traffic. The people I was talking to work in the business.

I pay my internet provider 40 bucks for a domain, email, browser (access) etc., I pay another professional site 35 bucks for 6 months so that people that are interested in their plethora of listings can see my stuff easily.

Sure, there's craigslist --- free but not necessarily the highest quality.

Anyone got others, though?
mouse
really?
i dunno, i'll have to look at it closer.

but their prices seemed really........low to me. $264 for the average design project? really? craigslist gives better prices than that.
butterfly
Pherber biggrin.gif I understand now! The self promo thing had flown straight over my head. Like so many things!!
Anyway, I'm glad to have gotten to see some of your work. biggrin.gif

Mouse, I'm really loving this thread too.

Gumby, how'd you get on? Hope it's all figuring itself out without too much stress.

Wombat! Hello! I was so with you until I saw the "good home computers" I know the hamsters that run my laptop just aren't up to the job!!

Do ya'll know fotolog? It's not a job thing- although I know a lot of pro-photographers that have work up on it. Anyways, that's what came to my mind.

smile.gif
pherber
butterfly, I saw, that you only joined a few weeks ago. Well it took me much longer to find out about everything here!
laugh.gif
butterfly
It feels like a minefield sometimes! You must have thought I was trying to teach you how to suck eggs!! biggrin.gif

So do you use computers alot for your artwork Pherber?
I don't, well except sending e-mails to clients (and even then I prefer the phone). I still use 35mm film/5x4trannies instead of digital cameras.
I don't *feel* like a ludite, but I guess I am smile.gif
pherber
No, I didn't think that! laugh.gif Especially since there's things that I still haven't figured out myself yet..


I never use computers for my art, btw! I painted everything with a brush and acrylic or gouache paint.

This is my very first computer, I've only had it for a year now! blink.gif Imagine! laugh.gif
As soon as I manage to install my new scanner/printer, I'll upload more artworks. I've been making collages, sculptures out of garbage and installations, too. (I need a digicam, darn!)
butterfly
I *can* imagine! This is my first too....and like I mentioned it seems to be powered by little hamsters pedalling like mad!
I like pencils and paintbrushes and paper and glue and dirty hands and sweaty feet. Except the feet bit. biggrin.gif

The digital cameras on mobile phones are getting pretty good I hear- tho maybe you're not a phone person.

Bright lights- like the computer screen- make my eyes hurt a bit sometimes. I keep the lights down low. I just wondered how mouse and wombat manage- but I guess you've found a way:)
pherber
"...powered by little hamsters pedalling like mad!"
ROFL



I got rid of my mobile. A friend of mine, who's from a posh family quoted his granny with: "Only lackeys need to be within reach at all times!" I'm not sure if I translated this well... but it's so true! laugh.gif

Screenlight doesn't bother me at all. Makes me think, of aspies and their natural affinity to computers... more laugh.gif !!
wombat
Oh, yeah, sorry to be a stickler -- I heard the name tossed around but didn't explore the site in great detail.

(I'm talking about "elance.com"!)

And definitely there are some cool things on craigslist sometimes. It's how I got my last two jobs! which have been good!

Luddites: If you want to keep working in traditional materials, just get a color scanner and scan in at 300 dpi!

Mobile: I'm not diggin it and I often don't have it on. But it's great for cadging jobs. Also, many people hang their whole social life on it. They just take it for granted that they don't want to leave messages and respond to messages, also that they should call when at someone's front door rather than knocking or ringing a bell.

I don't know, I find it odd.

re lackeys: well, the first people I know that were phone/beeper freaks were medical doctors, and you can't say they're non-posh exactly!

I feel like I'm out of it for hating cell phones and I should just adjust....

Seldom is the day I have it on and carry it around in my pocket. Had it on today, and guess what? Coooooool technical design opportunity!!!!!!!!!!!

I was just typing on Okayers how I feel bummed to be hanging out my shingle again even though I'm progressing as I planned and I get a freaking phone call!!!

Bust -- and making some effort of one's own behalf -- is magic!!

gumby_cc
hello all. i'm back, more learned from the selling art experience but ended up not making as huge a profit as I was expecting.... if i wasn't selling my work to a friend then it would have gone a lot differently. ritz ended up fixing the mistakes they made, but the images aren't completely perfect....but i'm anal smile.gif

i studied design in art school but my skills have completely atrophied since then and i was wondering whats the best way to blow up prints from 35mm negatives...the images i blew up were to 10x12 but they looked so grainy and the color blew all out....is it something that should be done on the computer yoruself, or would you jsut bring it to a professional photo place (not ritz) for something like that?

eh, i am going to work on something else less frustrating right now smile.gif
butterfly
Hi Gumby, glad you kind of sorted it out with the film processors! I can't see why you'd have a problem going to 10x12 from a 35mm film. I always get a 6x9 that's perfect, though I use an indie processing place where the business owner is very hands on. Last year sometime their process machine had some glitches, so I had to go to the franchisee along the street- the difference in quality was actually pretty surprising.
Don't even know why really- I mean it's all gotta be the same equipment?
I also use another place that has a photography studio attached, and they develop films for corporate/commercial clients, and I get them to photograph 'special' pieces onto a 5x4 color transparency. I love them.

It's ironic that I am talking in here so much about photography as I've always been somewhat phobic. Everything ends up wonky and off centre. Having a little digi on my phone has given me a little more confidence, but I still prefer a 35mm. I think you'd have to spend up to beat it for resolution- which again makes me wonder what happened to your prints. I'm going to pick up some trannies tmw, and if I remember I'll ask 'em what they think.

It's hard with friends- I had someone wanting to buy something the other day- trying to choose between 2 pieces, while there were other customers around. I don't know them that well, kind of friends of friends. And I have to shut off the *voices in my head* that are saying- what if people come over to your place and criticize it, will you go off it, will you think I sold you a pup, will *I* come over to your place and see it in a year's time and feel embarrased that I made you pay cash money for a pile o'crap.
It's a really dumb way to think- I sell quite alot of work now, and I ought to feel confident. I am getting better- I try to think that it's insulting to them for me to think that they can't *really* like my work, and therefore shouldn't be allowed to buy it.
I'm pretty well boundaried on the money thing though. I have a standard discount, and I *always* stick to it smile.gif

I was thinking/worrying that I may have come across as anti-computer. I'm not at all, I really like alot of work that I see around and about, and would like to learn about it. I'm just not sure how that would happen. Anyway, it just went through my head that I may have come across wrong, and wanted to make it clear...

The quote from your friend's grandma made me smile Pherber. I just look to see who it is, and if I think money/vodka is a likely outcome, I answer.
How's it going Wombat? I imagine it's a little stressful, but you seem like a very positive, and highly capable, woman and I'm sure you're doing good!

...sorry this is such a long post!
pherber
QUOTE(wombat @ Oct 2 2006, 07:25 PM) *

re lackeys: well, the first people I know that were phone/beeper freaks were medical doctors, and you can't say they're non-posh exactly!

Posh people can be "lackeys" i.e. slaves to even posher people.. I didn't mean it in terms of status. unsure.gif


I got rid of my mobile!
Ah, liberty.
wombat
No offense taken, Pherber, I'd hate to feel like I HAD to have it on all the time, but I feel like I'd do better if I DID. But I pretty much hatem. I got the virgin mobile pay-as-you-go and that is pretty cool.

Oooh, thank you Butterfly! Yeah, I'm just gathering my brain cells to finish presenting my first specialty and start presenting my second specialty.

Does anyone else notice the large amount of clear-spot attention you have to marshall? It is 3 oclock here (close enough!) Worst time of the day.
butterfly
you's welcome Wombat. I seem to be following you around now...*metaphorical satchel dragging on ground....can I come play with you guys?*

I probably do notice clear spot attention marshalling- but I have no idea what that means.......
wombat
Heh! It means, in order to create art or writing or organize things, I have to be relaxed and energetic and able to focus, and I am that way in the morning an hour or two after I wake, and then like, after 4. Early afternoon is horrible if I have to do something like that.
butterfly
OK. Yes I had exactly that problem today- my attention being pulled in directions I don't want to have to be pulled in, namely suppliers not supplying, photographers not photographing, commissioners changing commissions.

And all I want to do is get on with *my* stuff.
Not drink too much coffee, eat a donut, and think about *their* stuff.

Wait. That isn't maybe what you mean- attention deficits on your part? Blood sugar dips.
Not your fault. Take a break, eat some nuts. Stay away from sugar and caffiene. wink.gif
mouse
word.
early afternoon sucks for productivity. oh hey look, it's 3pm and i'm on bust!!

that and i'm trying to figure out the best way to tell my boss that if i put "long live punk rock" on a t shirt that will probably end up in ross dress for less, i will have to promptly kill myself afterwards.
pherber
I didn't know what clear spot attention is either (sound like a band name laugh.gif )
I can only work at night, when it's very quiet, but that could be because I'm autistic, I get so distracted from bright sunlight and noises.

I had an experience, with an illustration that I wasn't really satisfied with. Usually I keep my level of skill, or improve with each work, so it was a drawback. I listened to music with headphones (to block out the noises my ex roommate made) during work, when usually I listen to music coming from loudspeakers.
A friend told me there's a thing called 'head aura' I'm not sure if it's esoterical bullshit, though. It means, that what's on or around your head influences your senses. Anyone heard of that?
butterfly
Just turn it round mouse- subvert it.

Punk live rock long.
Live punk long, rock.
Long rock- live punk.

Nope. You're gonna have to tell 'em- sorry. sad.gif

ETA Hi Pherber!
I haven't heard of it- but I do do it, if that makes sense. It's pretty noisy (in a random unpredictable way) where I work, and I do find listening to a particular radio station chills me out, and if I'm stressed then loud angry music can get me back on track.
ETA-again! Oh, do you actually mean *ON*? I was thinking you meant music, but maybe you mean an *object*?
pherber
biggrin.gif yeah, objects, like hats, headphone, glasses even.

When I listen to music, I still get distracted by other sounds. I feel it's ruining the music, so I use headphones a lot.
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