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cloverbee
smart girl!
raskel
midge, I was just saying, because I have been lactose intolerant my whole life, and still am, the doctor may have caught an allergy to dairy by now. The only food allergy they've ever came back with was that I am allergic to sesame oil. Kind of a random allergy, but it give me an itchy red rash to eat anything cooked with sesame oil.
mouse
okay......gotta just say this, vitamin water is NOT just vitamins and water. the second ingredient is crystalline fructose, a form of sugar that comes from cornstarch. they generally have about 13 grams each of sugar and carbs, about one less gram than gatorade. i love that stuff too (esp. when hungover!), but it's not exactly a health drink.

i'm happy about this new thread. i was pretty much raised on holistic medicinal practices (unless of course something was really wrong and antibiotics were necessary). my mother still thinks i'm a traitor now that i use advil when i need to.

i'm actually just about to start the "master cleanse" (10 days on fresh lemon juice, grade b maple syrup and cayenne, with a saltwater flush and laxative tea--it's basically a really hard-core detox program. the maple syrup lemonade gives you the nutrients to survive while everything else loosens up and flushes out your system). i've never done it before, and am generally skeptical, but i've been feeling really sluggish and gross lately and have heard only good things about the results. i figure if i don't feel like it's doing anything good for me, i'll stop. but i'm curious if any of you have done it, and what your experiences were.
pepper
well, at first i felt fairly awful. hungry, light-headed, spacey, dizzy, irritable. after the third day it was a different story though. very light and airy, clear, amazing, and not hungry at all. after a few days i had lost a bit of weight (expected, but not good for me 'cause i am a rail already) so i stopped early, but i felt really, really good.

when i was first diagnosed with ibs i went 100% raw vegan right away, after two months i did the master cleanse for 8 or so days followed by a colonic and didn't see a symptom of ibs again for years. i like the lemonaide fast a lot, but i never did the salt water flush or the enemas and the senna tea was actually too strong for me. the colonic was A-MaZINg though. WoW.
tatiana
maddy, I thought I'd pop in with what worked for me:

I was given Luvox and then Prozac and none of them did me a bit of good. I got all of the side-effects that are rare. It wasn't until I was reading up on depression that I realised why.

There are two types of enzyme pathways that can be involved in depression (that we know of so far). One is treated by SSRI (prozac, luvox, etc) and the other is treated by the older drugs (the ones you can't eat cheese with). If you are given a drug that blocks the enzyme pathway that is working then it stands to reason you would get some nifty side-effects. I think that is what happened to me.

Unfortunately no drugs can treat both pathways at the same time, so that leaves a subset of patients kind of fubarred. Anyway, I did some reading on depression and started taking St-John's Wort (specifically the brand used in a clinical trial) and it worked. I could tell it was working (which I never could with drugs) and I could tell when I went off of it too soon. I also took tryptophan (I didn't even realise that it was illegal where I live until I went to buy my second bottle!)

Anyway, there were a couple books that I found really helpful that you might want to check out:

The Way Up From Down - by Priscilla Slague, MD
(easy to follow, drug-free program of B vitamins and amino acids)

Depression and Natural Medicine - by Rita Elkins
(a nutritional approach to depression and mood swings)

Feeling Good: The New Mood Therapy - by David D. Burns, M.D.
(clinically proven drug-free treatment for depression)

It's been a while since I've read them (they worked so I haven't needed them in several years). They are all available from Amazon. Good luck!.
thaid
Wow, that sounds fantastic. I think I need a cleanse (never done one so probably) Can you describe it again, maybe with proportions? How much should I make for a whole day? Should I avoid any activities while on this? Does it taste like crap? I am definately feeling rather sluggish as of late and could really use a health boost. Would love the "recipie".
mouse
there's a book called "the master cleanse" by stanley burroughs. but the ratio is
2 Tbsp lemon
2 Tbps pure grade B (NOT grade A) maple syrup
1-10 tsp cayenne (to taste)
12 oz purified water

drink it 6-12 times a day. you drink a laxative tea (senna leaf) at night, and do a saltwater flush of 2 tsp sea salt in a quart of water in the mornings. chug the whole thing. i'm taking the tea tonite and starting the lemonade tomorrow, but apparently it's pretty.....cleansing. like stay by the toilet for an hour after you drink the saltwater. not exactly looking forward to that, but what i've heard about the results make it worth it.

if you google "master cleanse" you'll find a lot of info, as well as other peoples' experience with it. i'll keep y'all posted as i do it, too.
cloverbee
mouse, thank you for that info. my mom does the stomach cleanse w/ cayenne and vinegar. I'll have to try yours, though. where do I find the maple syrup? that cleanse will heal an ulcer or an irritated stomach too. I've been eating the acitivia lately and that seems to be working well for me. I need to get off the sugar. I'm particularly bad about eating oreos and ice cream. I also need to do more exercizing.
oh, btw, how often do you drink the concotion?
turbojenn
AH, my favorite topic has finally come up, as I knew it would! Cleanses and colonics! Over in the okayland thread, they sweetly call me the butt flush queen...what can I say, they are very beneficial, and I share my joy with others!

I do a cleanse about 3x a year, but I go a little crazy with the lemon cleanse, so I use a product called BioCleanse to make smoothies with a little frozen fruit and water in the mornings and evenings, and then eat raw veggies for lunch...it gives my body the rest it needs, and the BioCleanse keeps my energy stable, and blood sugar stable. I'll usually get a couple of colonics while I cleanse, and that really helps keep my cravings down and keep me on track with my diet when I go back to a more normal eating schedule. I'm about due for another cleanse.

I'll also take lots of epsom salt baths during my cleanse week to assist in detoxing, and if I'm lucky I go down to the massage school and get a massage too. To me, cleansing is as much about pampering myself as it is cleaning my body. ;)

Clover - most grocery stores should carry the Grade B maple syrup...
hellotampon
I have heard good things and bad things about cleanses and fasting. Wouldn't doing something like that screw up your metabolism?

Anyway, I've been wondering for a long time about my poop. It seems like looking in the toilet bowl can be a good indicator of your health, and mine is always very smelly and sludgy and gross and seems oily. I don't know why! I get a moderate amount of excersize, drink plenty of water, and my diet is mainly raw fruits and veggies, trail mix, hummus, granola, soy, oats, etc. No meat or dairy. I very RARELY eat eggs and when I do they are fresh from my boyfriend's pet chickens. I can't think of anything refined or overly processed. Am I missing something?
turbojenn
ht - yup, your poop is a good indicator of a lot of things. I'd recommend taking 3 chlorophyll capsules everymorning - makes your poop vibrantly green!...but also helps clean out your intestines. It sounds like you eat a great diet, but things are still literally fermenting in there...which is the smell. How well do you chew your food? With lots of raw foods and whole grains, unless you chew your food really well, your poops can get a little gross.

The oiliness is odd though, and the only thing I can think of is that you can't quite fully digest the soy. I'm that way, so I pretty much cut out the soy except for the occasional soy cheese pizza. Also I know that I really have to be careful about my olive oil (any oil) consumption...I can't have much of it before my body talks to me about it.

I think the important thing about starting cleanses is really being aware and listening to your body...and having professional support your first time out. If you start to feel odd, overly tired, twitchy, just stop. I know that for me, I need to use a medical food product like BioCleanse that is designed for cleansing gently and maintaining energy....and its wheat/dairy/egg/gluten free, which is important to me.
turbojenn
Oh - also ht - if you can, you might want to get a colonic - a good colon therapist can diagnose your issues really well, tell you which part of your intestines are slowing things down for you, and recommend natural digestive aids to help you digest more efficiently.
midgemcgrath
just a little fyi if anyone is going to try st. john's wort or any 'natural' anti-anxiety meds that have it in them, it does interfere with the effectiveness of hormonal birth control, so if you're on the pill/patch/ring/depo, stay away!

raskel--i see, and that is a weird one, the sesame oil!

tatiana--i'm on a waitlist for that "feeling good" book from the library, i'm glad to hear it's actually good!

hellotampon--just a little concern over the smelly/oily poop...i'd be concerned that you are having some malabsorption problems ...haha, omg, i just googled "smelly oily poop" to make sure "malabsorption" was the right term for the problem, and the fifth result is the "everyone poops..." thread where we talked about the poo nurse a while back! lol! well, i guess you are already concerned about this. but if this has been going on so long, why not go check it out with the doc? it can be caused by less worrysome things like soy or dairy allergy or parasites (though, parasites do need to be treated), but can also be signs of much more severe problems like celiacs disease, problems with your pancreas, and even cystic fibrosis! even if it is just from an allergy, it is a strong sign that your body is not absorbing all the nutrients from the food you eat, which is not healthy! i really hope you look into this further since it has been an ongoing issue!
mouse
okay....day 1 of the master cleanse....it's 3pm here and i've had four cups of the stuff. it's tasty, but i can see myself getting sick of it real quick. the saltwater made me super nauseous this morning (do you know how much a quart is??? A LOT is the answer. A LOT) but it, uh, did what it was supposed to do.

i have a pretty heavy caffeine addiction so i have a vicious headache right now...they're supposed to disappear in a couple of days. i can stick it out.

i'm not hungry at all. i want food for the taste, but i'm not physically hungry.
neverending
Has anybody tried Wheatgrass juice?If so please tell me how it tastes because I've heard it has many health benefits.
amilita
I was surprised to like wheatgrass juice. It is kinda sweet...and to me it sort of has an icky taste right at first but then that goes away and you get a yummy flavor and aftertaste. It is just sorta fresh and grassy...that's the only words I can find.

The Mr. and I like it enough to sip it, and then the guy at the juice bar yells at us to hurry up and drink it cuz all the vitamins are going away as it sits there.

I'm gonna do a juice fast sometime soon...I like that more than the master cleanse, but I still drink a lot of water with lemon. It's sort of a good, spring-y time for a cleanse!
turbojenn
Yup, I love the wheatgrass...I grow my own, and then I juice it with a little ginger - hoo-boy - that is better at revving you up than anything!
pepper
dang i hate wheatgrass. which really sucked when i worked at a wheatgrass FARM! all the free shots i could stomach. i was up to two-four ounces after a few months. some people really love the taste but, blech, i found it so overwhelmingly sweet and grassy. it was ok mixed with apple juice but adding ginger would have pushed me right over the nauseous edge, ugh.
the health benefits are unmistakable. really.
cloverbee
so I went and saw my doctor today and I told him that I was going to break open my capsules and pour a little bit out everyday. he advised against it b/c I couldn't measure it. I asked him what the alternative was and he said just to stay on it!!! what????? come on!! so I went home and broke my capsules open and poured out 25 granules for the first week, 50 for the second, approx. 75 for the third (I didn't really count each one here) and around half of the capsule for the fourth week. We'll see how it goes. I've wanted to do this for a long time and now that I'm not working or going to school I feel that I can do it. I've been on Effexor for over three years. I don't know what it's like w/out it and I don't really know exactly what it is doing to me side effect wise. it's been a good drug for my anxiety but it has caused me a lot of nervousness (what a trade, huh??). I may stay on it if it gets to where I can't handle the anxiety but I'm going to be positive about it and say that the anxiety will not return. My brain is different now and I've learned to not catastrophize as much like I used to. okay, this probably belongs in the anxiety thread but I just wanted to update anyone who cares. Thanks for listening!
pepper
good for you for taking things into your own hands. if i were you i would find another doctor while you're at it, pill pushers make me nervous. it's like they don't know enough about how things work to suggest anything other than drugs. wierd! they're supposed to be doctors, shouldn't they have something more up their sleeves than that?! sheesh.
raskel
Does anyone know about taking care of asthma naturally? I know I've heard of it being done, I just don't remember who told me or what they said.
mouse
i'm hungry, my head is pounding, and the scent of maple syrup makes me want to puke. things can only get better, right..?
hellotampon
Thanks turbo, I'll have to get some chlorophyll capsules!

I haven't (and won't) see a doctor about it because I have no insurance. Otherwise I would have, a long time ago. I'm thinking maybe it's a soy intolerance because I've been having my poopy problem pretty much since I turned vegan and started eating more soy. Which is horrible because I lovelovelove tofu!
turbojenn
hello - I hope you see improvement when you cut down on the soy...I stil eat tofu about once a week, but that's about my limit, with a litte soy cheese pizza occasionally. And when I eat tofu - I make sure its worth it by getting the handmade stuff by the artisan tofu-ery in our 'hood.

raskel...I've no real advice on the natural asthma treatment, though again, I'll say that changing my diet made mine go away completely...of course, I worked on getting in decent physical shape too, so I'm sure it was a combination of factors.

mouse....be sure to listen to your body, and if you don't feel right, then stop the cleanse, and rethink how you can do a cleanse and still support your body's needs. I'm a firm believer that cleansing shouldn't mean suffering.
neverending
turbojenn:Can you tell me how you grow it and where to get the juicer because I really want to try it; people say wheatgrass is really good and has lots of health benefits!
turbojenn
I got my juicer at Target - its not a super deluxe model, I think it was around $40, and I think it might be a Juiceman model...I remember laughing with turboman in the store about its 'as seen on tv' status...but it works just fine.

I buy my wheatgrass already growing - natural food stores sell them in about 4" x 4" blocks with dirt and everything, and its crazy easy to grow, and it makes me happy to see green growing things in my house. I'm getting half a flat of wheatgrass this weekend at our organic produce co-op, and I'm going to fill a whole window box with it!
maddy29
Cloverbee-Just stay on it? Um, ok, that's great advice. What was your dr. thinking? I'm glad you are going to slowly wean yourself off of it, cause I think cold turkey will hurt a lot. Good luck! Let us know how it goes.

Tatiana-thanks a bunch! i'll get one of those books and start doing the research. It just makes me tired to have to learn all this new stuff about nutrition and stuff....
cstars124
Clover, you take effexor? PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE do not just stop it completely. I have been taking effexor for almost 4-5 years and anytime I am without it (like the time my dr just flat out refused to prescribe it to me, without giving me prior notice), I became horribly horribly depressed and really weepy (right word?), headachy, and very sucidial. Def not something I would ever wish on anyone.

As far as natural stuff goes, I totally want to start eating organically again. I just end up very broke when I do. Does anyone know of any inexpensive natural food stores? Kinda like a cheap whole foods?
mouse
i feel a lot better today--no headache, not hungry. the maple syrup is still making me queasy--so sweet!! and i don't generally have much of a sweet tooth even when i'm eating crap. i'm drinking some mint tea right now to switch it up a bit and feel a little better about the thought of the syrup. i'm just adding less to the concoction.

i think the headache was part caffeine withdrawal (and i KNOW that i get headaches when i go too long without coffeeeee...yuck), and partially cos i didn't get much exercise yesterday. i'm getting over a cold and felt kind of fevery so i slept most of yesterday, but today i feel a lot better.
cloverbee
mouse, hang in ther, girl.
cstars, thanks for the advice. I once skipped a day and it was a freaking nightmare. I have found myself at the drugstore crying to the pharmacist when I was out and my doc was away. yes, it is a bad drug to come off of. some say it's the worst.
turbo, can you go into more detail about how you grow the wheatgrass? do you leave it inside? how do you juice it and how much does it take?
I'm starting my diet today. I slept until 1:00 this afternoon. I think it's PMS. it's time for a change.
raskel
cstars - the cheapest organic foods are at walmart. everything's 20 cents less expensive, but you can't get everything there either. i can always get pasta, bread, fruit and vegetables at walmart, and occasionally they have other organic foods there. i've also heard that sam's choice milk is hormone and steroid free, but i have never looked into that myself.
cloverbee
okay, day 1 folks and I'm dizzy and hot and my arms are heavy but I'm in the best damn mood of my life!!!! WOW!
pepper
mouse, cut the syrup. you don't have to use so much, especially if it's too sweet for you. i only used a splash and the fast was great for me. and remember the first three days are the hardest. it will be over before you know it and you'll be so glad you did it in the end.

as for juicing wheatgrass. there are a few inexpensive models around but they're almost all manual hand crank type juicers. while a regular centrifical force juicer (shreds veggies and fruit up and spins out the juice) can handle a bit of, say, spinach mixed in with some carrots or apples, it isn't for wheatgrass, sprouts or even most leafy greens in larger quantities. the ratio of juice to grass is very low in comparison for one thing. wheatgrass is best juiced with a press, the hand crank and electric models crush and squeeze out the juice which gets out way, way more of it and also doesn't damage the juice through oxidation or heat (oxidation from spinning, many centrifical force juicers heat up too much for wheatgrass). wheatgrass juice (and many green juices) lose potency extremely quickly when exposed to air and light and especially heat. once juiced, it should be consumed well within 10 minutes and the best way to take that kind of juice is all by itself, not mixed with anything at all. that maximizes it's nutritive and cleansing properties.
well worth the effort, amazing stuff indeed.
can you tell i worked at a wg farm? whew.
neverending
pepper:Are the health benefits true and does it give you energy?
mouse
wait, clover, are you doing the cleanse too? or is this a different diet? did i miss something?

today......i can stomach the syrup fine. i've been using less and the smell doesn't gross me out. i don't want to cut it out entirely tho since that's where you get the majority of your calories from and i'd really rather not pass out.

my legs kind of hurt, in the way that they feel when you first wake up and are all stiff, or when you're trying to stretch too far. but they feel like that just standing up or lying down. weird....maybe an effect of the cleanse, or maybe.....i just am not stretching well. i've been walking around, but nothing strenuous. ..i dunno.

the major thing today is, other than my tongue being totally grossly coated, is.............i feel highhhhhhhh.
pepper
aching muscles can be a sign of detox, you're doing great. the icky tongue too. and when you fast you don't need calories, water fasting and even short term dry fasting can have even more profound (and quicker) results than the master cleanse. the mc is a "cleanse" not just a fast, it's designed to flush and support and clean you out at the same time. but don't worry about cutting down or even cutting out the syrup, whatever feels right to you.

yes the wheatgrass really is all that. super detoxifying, amazingly nutritionally powerful, really incredible. it can give you lots of energy, but it can also just knock you out. depends on what your insides are like and how you react to it.
turbojenn
mouse - you might want to take some hot baths with epsom salt - about 2lb per bath, and water as hot as you can stand it - that will assist the detox, and loosen your muscles..Be sure to shower off afterward, or you'll have salty skin.

wheatgrass definitely gives me a boost in energy...and pepper, thanks for the juicing tips...I've definitely had some issues using my juiceman for wheatgrass...I'll look for a hand cranker for that.
turbojenn
damned double post!
cloverbee
I'm doing the no more Effexor cleanse ;)
erinjane
Someone posted a really great link to a site that had the whole master cleanse (i'm pretty sure it was teh mc) in one of the health threads quite a while ago. Does anyone know what the site was? It had all the info on it.
voodoo_princess
https://123webmagic.com/themastercleanse/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=38&produ cts_id=83

hey mouse - here is a really cute certificate you can print out for yourself after you finish your master cleanse and then you can be a member of the "Lemonade Brigade" for "people who have actively searched for ways to improve their health and followed that search with action"
i though it was really cute and thought you might like it.....
voodoo_princess
http://www.therawfoodsite.com/mastercleanse.htm

sorry about the double post BUT.... erinjane - here is a site that outlines the "Master Cleanse" and is the same place I found the "Lemonade Brigade" certificate of completion for *mouse*.....
pepper
tj, a good inexpensive one is called the porkert (yes, ha ha, very funny i know). it also works for berries and very soft fruit like peaches, etc.
nice call on the epsom salts too, that's a great idea. a swim and a sauna would be awesome too, got a local pool with a steamroom nearby?
erinjane
Voodoo, thanks for that. It's a different site, but similar. The other one was a pdf file and it was probably about 20-30 pages and very thorough. I had it bookmarked but my computer has since crashed. That looks like a good start though. I recently went totally vegetarian, which really wasn't a huge difference from what I was eating before, but I just feel like I need to detox my body and have a fresh start or something.
cloverbee
has anyone heard of sun chlorella? it's supposed to cleanse your body of toxins but I've never tried it. it's very expensive.
annelise
if you're trying to eat more organic, this site is good: http://www.eatwellguide.com/ to find health food stores and the like near you.

also, cloverbee, that's about the way i went off of effexor when i did. i counted the little beads that i poured out and went incredibly slowly, and then didn't have any problems. true, you're not dealing with exact dosages that way, but if you want to go off the drug, you can get a good enough estimate of the dosage that way. it seems to be the only way, or it was for me. if you have probs with anxiety, there's gotta be some sort of milder drug that can help you, because effexor is horrible stuff. and hopefully, you'll be fine and not need anything at all. fingers crossed for you.
cloverbee
annelise, why is effexor so bad? I am just curious if it does bad things to your body or do you mean that it's hard to get off of? I really don't know a lot about it.
annelise
i'm not sure what sort of effects it has when you're on it, but anything that gives you withdrawal that bad has gotta be some pretty powerful stuff, IMO. plenty of AD's have withdrawal effects when you try to go off of them, but from what i've read/heard, effexor is the worst of all of them by far.
mouse
day four.
i am going off the cleanse. i feel really shaky and high and feverish today, and while that might be par for the course, i start a new job on tuesday and i don't want to be this out of it for that. this is something i could do under different circumstances, i don't think it's a healthy thing for me to be doing right now. i started in on the second day of a cold, which i think is a good reason why i feel feverish. i also just started my period, and i tend to get kind of anemic so i think it's probably not a great idea to be not getting iron right now.

if i had some more days off, or if i was just going back to a job i knew well, it would be different, but this is the first "real" job i've ever gotten and i want to be in top shape, not shaky and feverish and taking half a second too long to respond to people.

regardless, my digestive system does feel *A LOT* better. i'm going to start orange juice today and do soup tomorrow. i really wanted to do the cleanse mainly to jumpstart myself into eating better, and i definietly thing it's done that. for the first day or two i was practically licking the screen if an olive garden commercial or mcdonals or anything horrible came on tv, but now i'm just kind of salivating about, like, barley.

i'd like to try it again, but i really don't think now is the right time for me to do it. i feel kind of bad, but i also know it's necessary. bleh.
turbojenn
mouse, I think you are doing very well in listening to your body. When you decide to do a cleanse again, I would recommend something gentler with a product like BioCleanse that gives you all the nutrients you need and keeps your blood sugar stable...it still gives you a great experience, but none of the downsides.
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